Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Vikings sign a veteran corner, sign practice squad (Part 1)

Episode Date: August 28, 2025

Matthew Coller breaks down the Vikings' practice squad and the veteran corner who returns to Minnesota. Plus more on the Adam Thielen deal and Judd Zulgad joins. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel.

Hey, everybody welcome. Oh, look, the practice squad's right in front of me. There we go. Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here. Well, that ruins the surprise that we're going to talk about the Minnesota Vikings practice squad, which includes the addition of a veteran cornerback. Now, I'm sure that there are some of you who saw a veteran cornerback. in the headline and wanted it to be your favorite cornerback ex, but it is Fabian Moreau that the Vikings decided to bring back. But he is a veteran. He got in a couple of games last year and was able to provide them depth, which obviously opens up the question of, is that all that they're going to do?

Is Fabian Moreau the only veteran corner that this team is going to add because they got Adam Thieland today in a trade. Are they going to try to make one more? Is there a Stefan Gilmore in our future? Or is Fabian Moreau the guy that they are just fine with being another backup to go along with right now behind the two starters, Jeff Okuda, Dwight McLeathern, and then, you know, now you have Fabian Moreau who you could elevate on Game Day if you want to. For me, personally, I would say.

that they should probably still be looking at another veteran, but it does help. Moreau has been around a long time when he was asked to go in the game for the Vikings last year. You didn't feel like it was a total collapse that you had to be terrified that he was playing. He's had a pretty solid and average type of career for a veteran cornerback, and now he is back with the Minnesota Vikings. So since I already showed it on the screen, I might as well put it back up. and we can look at the Vikings practice squad. But this is a big show for us here tonight, though, my friends,

there are two guests coming up later on this evening, and they are the home run hitters. Jud Zolgad will join the show a little bit later. And then Drew McGarry from Defector with his Why Your Team Sucks article, and then we get into a lot of other stuff with Drew McGarry, who has been a favorite of the Purple Insider audience. So a double guest night here, tonight but still a lot for me to talk about with you and in between all of that will be taking

your comments, your questions, your reactions to what has happened so far today, which is the Vikings trading for Adam Thielen. So let's look at the practice squad and then I did spend some time talking to some folks about the Adam Thielen trade and I will tell you what I was able to take away from that. I'm just going to carry over the Fandul question of the day from this morning because this is a different audience here this evening and welcome. But the Fanduil question of the day is just how many catches for Adam Thielen this season. Like what, how about this? We'll put a twist on it.

How many catches makes the trade a win for the Vikings? There we go. That's the twist to the Fandual question of the day. Not how many he's going to get, but how many does he need to get for you to say, okay, Vikings, you win, you win the trade. great job Quasi, a great job, Vikings front office and getting Adam Thielen because he got X number of catches. How many does that need to be for it to be a win for you? But let's take a look at that practice squad. The Gabe Murphy panic of just two days ago, as so often is the

case, was unnecessary. Gabriel Murphy comes back on the practice squad and what that means exactly. I'm not totally sure. Does that mean that Gabriel Murphy didn't perform as well as they thought or did, or as we thought, I mean, did it mean that they just believed that they could get Murphy through to the practice squad? And so they're more likely to cut a player that they know they can get through to the PS as opposed to somebody who's younger that might get picked up by another team. You think about a second year undrafted free agent has probably a 90. 99.7% chance to get through, where a first year UDFA probably had some interest. So a Chaz Chambliss, for example, somebody else might have really wanted

Chas Chamblis as an undrafted free agent coming out of the draft. So it's very possible that they thought, all right, well, we better put him on the 53, Murphy on the practice squad. Or it could also just mean that they liked Chambliss better and thought that he could be more versatile and help with the special teams, whereas maybe Gabriel Murphy is a guy that if he is needed, if someone gets hurt, then it will be necessary to have Murphy. By the way, this is the Vikings graphic that they put out on Twitter. I'm not stealing their graphic.

This is their graphic. I am stealing it, but I want to give them credit. It's a beautiful, beautiful collection of the practice squad. This is what they posted on Twitter. So there you go. Gabriel Murphy is back. The name that I was a little surprised by was a Xavier, Exavian Valaday, who they brought in at the last minute and decided to keep on the practice squad here.

But I'll run down the rest of the list. So they released Tim Jones and then signed him to the practice squad today. So Tim Jones won't be wide receiver too. That will be Adam Thielen and or Jalen Naylor. Kalef Halasi had a very good preseason and training camp. Just gives them a little bit of extra. depth at the safety position. Zemaya Vaughn comes back on the practice squad,

so they weren't just entirely sick of Zamaa Vaughn playing on the second team and getting rid of him. He is still here on the team after a promising training camp and offseason. Nick Vinette, the veteran tight end, sticks around along with Bryson Nesbitt. So two backup tight ends behind Ben Yurasek. So I guess the tight end competition isn't completely over with two. other guys on the practice squad. I mentioned Murphy, Vashon Lee, a backup center slash

guard. Henry Bird has been here a couple of years. He's a veteran backup lineman. He played a little bit of tackle in the preseason. Two wide receivers that we thought might make the team, Jay Sean Jones and Lucky Jackson. So Lucky Jackson remains. Jonathan Harris was a little bit of a surprise for me that he came back, but he kind of emerged in the second half of training camp in the preseason. Taki Tiamani is back. I saw there were some Taki truthers who were upset that they did not keep him on the initial 53, but he is here. Dante Fleming showed some talent for sure as a downfield wide receiver. Also wasn't able to bring in a perfect throw for Max Brosmer, but flashed enough to be a development receiver on the practice squad. At least he has

high upside with his speed. That's one thing we've seen. And then I mentioned Fabian Moreau. And maybe the one surprise of the practice squad is Max Purcher, who is from Italy, and he is the international player, not Oscar Chapman. So we talked so much about how they could keep Oscar Chapman as the international player. And I guess they just decided that they didn't really love what they saw from Chapman at the end of the day. And they move on from him. So if you wanted that punting competition, I'm deeply sorry. You just never got it. I'm sorry.

You never got the punting competition that you were dreaming of. I guess, you know, that we were at least made to think that. And Chapman was there all the way to the end to the last preseason game, but not even keeping him on the practice squad as the international player would not suggest that he was ever all that close to beating out Ryan Wright. The Vikings did have two players. Now I have to get their names. They had two players who were claimed.

And somebody left a comment on my tweet about it, which was exactly right. They said, I've been paying attention all camp. I've never even heard of these guys. And I was a little bit surprised by the players who got claimed because when you look at that list, Gabriel Murphy, Taki Taimani, I mean, even Lucky Jackson. There's a lot of guys that we talked about a lot. But the players that were claimed, let me get this here. And Trey Palmer did get claimed.

by the way, so the Vikings could not pick him up. One was Reddy Stewart, who is a defensive back from Troy, who made a play in the third preseason game, but didn't get a whole lot of work other than that. And the other one, let's see, there was one more. I thought, oh, yeah, Dorian Mousy, M-A-U-S-I, who was another guy that played just at the end of some of the preseason games. So Stuart and Mousy were the guys who ended up getting claimed. Nobody on the list that I would have had on the Vikings practice squad to begin with.

So that was a little surprising to me who it was that ended up getting picked up. But, you know, sometimes it ends up being the case that a team really loved a player coming out. And they're saying, hey, we've got an opportunity to bring this guy in. We had them high on our board, whatever. Who knows the differences between these guys? Yeah, Mousy was the guy who was a teammate of Austin Keyes. I remember when they brought him and Keys in, it was like, oh, both Auburn, you know, linebackers. And the fact that, you know, the Titans claimed him, I mean, the Titans, they just claimed everybody they could.

That team is down so bad that they are just casting a wide net. So anybody that they kind of liked, they were going to grab. But when you look at that Vikings practice squad, and I was thinking about this earlier, about how I probably wouldn't have ever even done a breakdown of the practice squad in years past because my thought was always like, hey, if they get to these guys, then you're probably in pretty tough shape. But the rule changes really change the way we think about the practice squad. The fact that you can have a veteran like Fabian Moreau on the practice squad is a pretty good deal for these teams that you can kind of hide a guy there and not use a roster spot with

him. But if he's got to play, he actually can and has been in the league before. And then, you know, the other side of it is the increase of number of players. So there's the veteran part. There's the increase of the number of players you can have. So guys that you liked during camp, there's a very good chance that they end up back on the practice squad and you're not losing them and they're not out of the league and in the XFL that you can keep them there. I mean, somebody like Dante Fleming, for example, who has some lightning speed and caught a number of deep balls during camp and almost grabbed that one for Max Brosmer, to me, is a development project, raw speed, very impressive.

But the hands, maybe the route running, but especially the hands, there's work that needs to be done there. If you watched J.T. O'Sullivan's QB school, he pointed. out that there was a play where Fleming was running right across the middle of the field wide open, Brosmer hits him in the hands, but he kind of dives for it for no reason. This guy just needs a lot

of work. But if there's anything there, the team could just keep you on the practice squad because it's a huge practice squad. So that's a big deal as well that you could have these deep development projects like Dante Fleming on the roster. And then

the elevations have become a big deal as well, where you can have somebody on the 53, but then they get hurt and you just elevate someone else. So then we see a lot more of these guys. And that's where it matters to me the most. It used to be that you'd have to give a guy a roster spot. So they'd be bumped up for a game and then released and then go through waivers and then maybe come back.

And then, you know, there were jokes we had about guys like Jack Tocho was released and picked up like 14 different times. You don't have to really do that anymore. If you have somebody that you like on the practice squad, just for example, Taki Tiamani, depending on their opponent, and that guy might play. You might not play week one, but it might be like week six. I, did I just pick their by week? Or is that is, yeah, I think I did just pick their by week.

Let's say week four, they're going to play Pittsburgh. And you think, well, Pittsburgh's going to run the ball a lot. And they might just elevate Taki Taimanani and have a play. I remember when they elevated totally randomly Sheldon Day. And then he was playing like 25 snaps. Like when what the heck what but that's how it works these days so your practice squad becomes a lot more relevant where we are looking for who could be the next man up or even in brian flores's case who could he just randomly decide to use and i did also wonder a little bit about the fabian

morrow signing to the practice squad there is that rule that if you get through week one you can sign players and then you don't have to guarantee their money after week one. And I wondered about a Stefan Gilmore or another veteran corner who might be out there that the Vikings would be saying, well, let's bring up, you know, Fabian Moreau. And then we'll wait through week one, sign somebody else, get them here and get them going as backup depth and go from there. But the cornerback does still remain a mystery. This should not keep them from signing anyone else. But interesting enough, just from Moreau last year to give you the exact details on what he did the last couple years.

Last year, he played 103 snaps and ended up with a 63.1 pff grade, which is replacement level. It's okay. He was targeted nine times, six receptions against, and the longest was 16 yards. He did give up a couple touchdown passes. So in the red zone, he was beaten there. But overall, replacement level type of play. has kind of been who he's been over the last few years. He's been a break glass in case of emergency corner,

played over 1,000 snaps in 2021, 2022 and 23 played over 700 snaps. And he's never graded super well by PFF, but he's also never graded so badly that you'd be worried about having him as your backup corner. So that's kind of where they stand now at that position. And I still expect that there should be movement there. with the cornerback position, but if there's not, then, you know, well, you're going to feel

a little bit on shaky ground. And yes, thank you for mentioning that Kvon Wallace, another defensive back was brought in for a visit today. Wallace was not very good last year with the Seattle Seahawks did have a decent season in 2023 and has kind of just been a routine backup there. He's played a little bit in the slot, a lot of a box safety type of player. Interesting that they would bring him in for a visit. I don't know if they're thinking about that for a practice squad position. I didn't really have safety as something that was on my radar for bringing in players. But, you know, maybe Tavier Thomas was just holding down a spot or, you know, maybe they weren't

quite as happy with Jay Ward. I don't, I don't know why. Maybe they just think that he's talented and they can. could see him as kind of a nickel slash type of player box safety deep safety doesn't have a great history though so maybe someone that they just believe there's a little bit of potential and want to have on their practice squad and that's why they had them visit uh hard to say there so let me get to the adam thieland stuff uh adam theelin as you guys know from this morning's breaking news emergency podcast which a lot of you were there uh of the night crowd so thanks for

showing up this morning to AM Purple Insider, where I look a little less spry, but the football takes are just as strong. I said this morning, if we, actually, if we go back to yesterday, where last night I was talking about the deal or yesterday afternoon right after cuts, and I said that the deal seemed like it was on life support, that it was not over, but it didn't look particularly promising for the Vikings to land Adam Thielen. And then, of course, this morning, it happens, and a number of you pointed that out to me that, hey, you said yesterday it was on life support.

So I did spend some time today just asking around how the trade went down, what happened. And I could tell you that what I said about life support was true, that this deal almost did not come to fruition. But as most deals often, the way that they work, the two sides had. their valuations of what they felt Adam Thielen was worth, what the Vikings wanted to give up, what Carolina wanted for Adam Thelan, and ultimately they got to that place and it happened. And that was much more of a this morning type of thing that it kind of came together because yesterday, last night, it did look like the Vikings were struggling to get there with what

Carolina wanted and then they were able to find the right ground for Adam Thielen to become a Viking. I also know that, you know, Thielen wanted it. Thelan, I think, wanted to bring his family back to Minnesota, wanted to potentially finish his career in Minnesota, wanted to be back with Kevin O'Connell, who there was a really good relationship there between O'Connell and Adam Thielen. my understanding is that those two are pretty close and that they feel like Thielen can quickly assimilate himself back into the offense without too much work because he knows it still from 2022 or knows the bones of it. He'll have to relearn some of the terminology, but it's kind of like if you learned French

in eighth grade. And then in 10th grade, they said, hey, you got to go back to French class. maybe the first day like oh man i got i don't know i don't remember it off the top of my head but as soon as you see it again you start putting the words together again and thelan has been around for so long but also my understanding is that the vikings really wanted this to happen they wanted thielan back they know what type of person he is they know what type of player he is and they felt like it was pretty important that they get a receiver that could step in right away with j jay mccarthy and help mccarthy from the outset, well, Jordan Addison is suspended.

Also, though, and this sort of, if you will, corroborates my feeling on where the Vikings were yesterday. There was reporting out of the New England area that the Vikings were making offers for Kendrick Bourne, the veteran wide receiver who played for the Patriots and also for the San Francisco 49ers. So the Vikings were trying for other wide receivers. and I think they were trying to leverage that a little bit against the Panthers of, hey, we've got other options, we could go get somebody else if you guys don't want to budge.

And this morning when the trade came down, the only other thing I wanted to add, when the trade came down, I did not pull out the Rich Hill draft chart, the Jimmy Johnson draft chart, the analytical over the cap, Spielberger, Fitzger. I didn't have that this morning. The news happened. I jumped on. I reacted with all of you guys. And so, you know, I mentioned that it was basically like giving up a lightly used Sam Howell to get Adam Thielen, which is still true.

Because the main piece of this trade is the fifth round draft pick that the Vikings gave to Carolina. Now, a few of you have pointed out that if you draft chart your way through that you'll end up with a fourth round. type of value from the conditional seventh, which I, you know, I don't know what the condition is with the conditional seventh. And then you have the move down from the fourth to the fifth, which if you're using those charts, I guess you just have to guess where the Vikings are going to pick, where Carolina's going to pick. If the Vikings are really good, Carolina's really bad, then maybe it's not worth a fourth. If the Vikings are really bad and Carolina's really good, then maybe it's worth more than that, I don't know.

But one way or the other, I don't have any problem with where this landed. I don't think the Vikings won the trade. I don't think that they robbed Carolina blind. And I also don't think Carolina robbed the Vikings blind. I think that it was a fair deal and maybe ever so slightly leaning toward a, this type of receiver might not quite be worth this much at this time of year. but there's special circumstances involved, which is the Vikings really need a wide receiver. And I made this comparison a number of times, and it came to fruition, was if you need the water in the desert,

you're going to pay what it takes to get the water. And the Vikings paid what it took. I thought that it might even be a little bit more than that, that they would eventually have to give Carolina. But then again, Carolina must have had, and I brought this up, that they took. traded Jonathan Mingle, who had not been a good receiver for them for a fourth round pick. And at the end of the day, when you add up all the charts and everything else, it's Adam Thielen for sort of a fourth. But when you consider that they got a fifth for Sam Howell, I still come back to that.

And also, right, Carolina wanted the contract for the Vikings to take the money, which I'm sure in a negotiation where it's, you know, the Vikings owners are involved, of course, and paying the bills and everything, you'd love if you were the Vikings general manager to come back and say, actually, you don't owe them anything. I convinced the Panthers to take all the money. But at this, at this point, who cares about the money? Because you've already spent this much. You have already spent so much money on this team.

What's another couple of bucks? And then Kevin Seifert reported today, just to kind of put a bow on all of that. Kevin Sefer mentioned today on Twitter that there is going to be a renegotiation of the contract. So yeah, Susan said that they asked Thielen to take a pay cut or whatever it might be. It might be a salary cap hit cut, which could leave them extra space to potentially add another cornerback or also I think it's really important and is really a big part of their plan to transfer over money from this year to next year. Because as a few of you have done,

if you go to overthecap.com and you look at the Vikings cap hits from 2026, it's going to say it's in the red. But the wonderful thing about the NFL salary cap is that you get to carry over money to the next year. So if you're trying to carry, if you're trying to cut into that, you know, number that you're in the red for next year

to get below the salary cap, Well, carrying over a good amount of money is going to be quite helpful in, in terms of not having to do too much to get under the cap next year. But I would say that just overall, I wouldn't expect the biggest offseason from the Minnesota Vikings next year. We'll cross that bridge when we get there, though. So, yeah, the contract is going to be reworked for Adam Thielen, and they are, yeah, I mean, And yeah, as Stephen says, they'll give Thielen a signing bonus to spread out, you know, for future, right, they, they're going to work something out with him to, we'll see it when it gets here when it comes to the renegotiation or whatever it might, however you want to put it with his contract. But he will not have the same exact cap hit for this year that he was expected to have. When the Vikings acquired him, that is the main story.

So bottom line is, I think everybody goes home happy. The Vikings have their feeling or maybe like slightly unhappy, like happy with the fact that they got their results and slightly unhappy that, well, Carolina now doesn't have a veteran wide receiver and slightly unhappy that maybe the Vikings gave up a little more than they had initially offered because we saw this play out for a number of days. So you can guarantee that the first offer of the Vikings gave Carolina they did not jump at and we saw the tweets from Adam Schaefter and all that sort of

stuff. So there was a real negotiation that went on and maybe to the 11th hour. And I still don't think from reading the Carolina writers that they wanted to cut Hunter Renfro, but the deal wasn't done yesterday. So they had to make that call and feel and practice yesterday. Like if you're, if you think that those things point to a deal being extremely close yesterday, then I'm telling you they don't. So they were able to get this turned around and get Thielen here. Would you've rather had Thielen or Trey Palmer got claimed? Would you rather had Thelan or Valdes Scantling who signed today with the 49ers? Would you rather have Thelan or Kendrick Bourne? I mean, I think I would just rather have Adam Thielen. And that's the bottom line.

Like these, everybody plays these games with each other of did you win the trade? Did I win the trade? Did they give up too much? Did who give up too much? And we are talking about swapping fourth and fixed fifth round picks folks swapping fourths and fifth and you know what on draft day number three 2027 if the feeling deal doesn't work out on that day i'll come back and say they screwed it up guys they screwed it up they should be drafting 98th and instead they're drafting a hundred and third what will they do we overdo it with all that stuff we really overdo it and i think teams probably do too or you'd see more trades but teams got to go back their gms you got to go back to your owner and you got to be able to say we won the trade we got what it was worth and when there

were certain people writing about this trade and trying to guess the compensation i was guessing a little bit high i was saying like a fifth and a sixth and a swap of a third and fourth which would have been i think more value than what they got but i saw others were kind of saying no, you should be able to swap just late round picks or something and get them. That was never going to happen with Carolina because they were in a position where they could just say, we're going to keep Adam Thielen, we're fine. They could have done that had they wanted to. And so that's where as the Vikings, you have to push it a little bit more.

You have to get them over the edge and they end up with Adam Thielen. So that's how my understanding of how it went down is it did look like maybe this won't happen. and then this morning it did come to fruition at, I'm just going to say closer to Carolina's price, we'll put it that way. And that's obvious because the negotiations went on for days, but closer to Carolina's price. But the Vikings got a receiver who's going to help them. And that is the bottom line there. So this is an exciting night, by the way, because I have two big guests at Judd Zolgad and Drew McGarry, both had a chance to talk. them earlier today, recorded interviews that I want to bring you. And I know that you guys have

been asking for Judd Zolgett on the show quite a bit over training camp. But what you have to understand is that Jud and I go back a long way. So I'm not just going to bring on Judd whenever. If I'm going to bring on Judd, it's going to be right before the season. It's kind of like Courtney Crona. You guys ask, well, where's Courtney? Is you going to bring her on to talk? I'm not going to bring Courtney on to talk about OTA practices in Chicago. We're going to come on to talk about week one and that will be coming up next week i'm sure uh so the same thing with jud the people have asked for mr zolgad so i want to bring you mr zolgad so i'm going to bring you that a conversation really fun with jud and then i will come back we'll answer questions

talk with the chat for a little while about what's on your guy's mind uh after this thielan acquisition after uh the practice squad is set what's left still to do we'll take a little at that. And then for the late night crowd, Drew McGarry, and I had to wait until it was FCC acceptable, but, you know, Drew, I asked Drew not to push the lines too far with the language. So, you know, we don't get shut down by YouTube. And he will be on later on this evening. So there's the plan. Right now, Zulgad, and then your questions, comments, thoughts after that. And then Drew McGarry to close out the show later on. So here is myself with my great friend, Judd Zolga. Look, guys, I am just about at the age where I'm starting to notice that

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and important safety information. All right, folks, you asked for it, and here it is. Jud Zulgad returns to the podcast. Jud, I was reminded by a good friend of ours, Courtney Cronin today, that I have been now covering the Vikings for exactly on this date, nine years. It was nine years ago that I was unpacking my stuff out in an apartment in Burnsville,

when I got a text from a friend of mine who said, didn't you just move to Minnesota? What's going on with Teddy Bridgewater? And I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. I've spent the whole day moving, getting in this apartment. And like, what do you mean? And I opened up Twitter and I saw our friend, Brent Gessling tweeting that there was an ambulance and that Teddy Bridgewater was being taken off the field. And I'm like, what the heck just happened?

What did I just walk into? And then two days later, you and I are at U.S. Bank Stadium watching Rams and Vikings. preseason action as C.J. Ham was going off down below us. We're talking with Spielman. We're dealing with breaking news. It was I was out at the fair with Patrick Royce. That was one day later. Right. When they traded for St. Bradford. Right. I mean, what a circus. What a way to be introduced to Minnesota Vikings football, eh? Well, so you're going to be a 10 years next season. That's absolutely incredible. And your life is never the same, not what you start to cover. So how long was Courtney on the beat with us?

Six years? And that would have been 2017 was her first year. Okay, yeah, that's right. 2012, because in 22, she left to go cover the Bears and she did not cover Kevin O'Connell. She only had the pleasure of covering the crazy Mike Zimmer years. And the wildest one, I think 16 has a great argument for it. But the wildest one was probably 21 because how often do the head coach and the quarterback end up at

odds over a major political issue, we'll call it. I mean, that was, that was pretty insane. But my first year, Judd, I mean, not only did Teddy get hurt, Sam Bradford comes in, goes five and no, but Mike Zimmer suffers the eye injury, the protester hangs from the roof. Every game came down to the last second. Blair Walsh got cut in the middle of the season. I mean, it was one thing after the next. And I will say this, Judd, had I not had a veteran of, the game, Mr. Zolgad, alongside of me. I would have lost my mind with everything, because that was my first year covering the NFL. I have been covering hockey, which can get a little weird, but nothing like the week to week of the National Football League. So I will always appreciate having

you along my side of me for that year. Well, you're very welcome. And, you know, just remember, I brought the 2010 experience, which nothing could top. So anything that we saw, I'd be like, I sort of seen that, seen that. But the Vikings, I give him credit. You're right. 16 did test us. 16 did, as far as, as I recall, things going wrong. The, yeah, the COVID year was weird because it was just some odd stuff, like you said, with Kirk.

And then it turned out, and I do love the fact that we found out at some point around that time period is when Spilman and Zimmer quit talking entirely. Yeah, I mean, my God, we could go through the amount of things. But just know this, you know, nine years in, you think you've seen. it all you hope you're right i'm not right i know i'm not right in thinking that i've seen it all so i'm always prepared to wake up and look at my phone and go north quit this morning what in the world is going on mike might have punched him but maybe he didn't punch him but it but the rumor is going to live for you know perpetuity that mike punched him and oh my god yeah what i have had enough people say that he that there wasn't a punch thrown that i guess i have to believe it but

I don't know, maybe all forever until Mike says that nobody punched everybody, then we're going to leave that one out there. But let's talk about 20, 25, Judd. Here's what I love about your breadth of knowledge of the Minnesota Vikings and Minnesota sports. This is quite a fascinating time for Minnesota Vikings fans because they have not had this. And, you know, I talk about showing up when Teddy was here and then not, for the knee injury. But when I got the job from 1,500 ESPN, one of the conversations that I had with yourself and whoever else was interviewing me at the time is what a cool time to come cover the Minnesota Vikings because they've got this young franchise quarterback. They had come

so close to winning a playoff game. It was a team on the rise. Their Super Bowl expectations were starting to get kicked around. And since then, it has been a couple of quarterbacks that you never would have expected. Sam Darnold, Case Keenham, Sam Bradford, getting them to five and oh, and then having that great game in 2017. And then the Kirk era, which just became this middle of ground of it's okay, but it's not actually good and it's more dramatic than it needs to be and it's more expensive. This purgatory that was always filled with ups and downs, but never really got you anywhere. It feels like they've kind of gone back in time to when Teddy was first arriving and there was this interest and intrigue of the unknown that we are about to go

into with J.J. McCarthy. It's unbelievable. First of all, what type of roster one can build when the quarterback does not cost a ton. Like that's the thing is it keeps coming back to that. But yeah, you know, what's funny is like this season, it's a first year starting quarterback, but I don't think there's anybody in their right mind who thinks the expectations aren't high. Now, I know nationally there's a very you know well they might win eight games and i think that what people think the lions are better the packers uh i still see way too much chicago excitement which i don't even agree with but anyway long story short i think expectations internally are enormous and when you build a defense that's you know not young but you build the interior of the defense now with

jvon hargrave and jonathan allen and then you build the interior of the offensive line finally, like for the first time since I've known you, I think. It's really built out. I mean, it's been a while. And then you go get a running back who can score in the red zone in Jordan Mason. You know, for all those who say, well, if something happens to McCarthy, they're dead. Or, you know, McCarthy, I don't know about that. I can tell you, that's not the expectation internally.

The expectation internally is they're going to win. Now, do I think McCarthy's going to have to Joe Montana them or carry them by himself? absolutely not. But, you know, after going to training camp, I think we both agree that there are some pretty high hopes there. And it's going to be very disappointing if it's like, well, McCarthy played okay and they won, you know, take your pick, eight games. If they do okay and win eight games with the amount of money that's been invested and even most recently in Adam Thielen bringing him back to town, I know they're reworking his contract according to our friend Kevin Sefer, but still that's some more dollars that

You can never, ever say that the Wulfs are a cheap ownership. I don't think anybody said that before, but you really can't say it after this offseason. The amount of cash that was invested, we always focus on cap hits because that's what matters most. But the actual cash is a kind of crazy amount. So they really are pushing all the chips to the middle of the table around J.J. McCarthy, which is something that I haven't been afraid of because of the recent success of young quarterbacks in the NFL. I mean, you see that a guy like Jalen Hertz a couple years ago was a third year starter. Brock Purdy was a second year starter.

I think it was Jared Goff's third year where he went to the Super Bowl and his second year where he led the number one offense in the NFL with the Los Angeles Rams in 2017. Carson Wentz is here. Well, I seem to remember a 2017 roster that was so good in Philadelphia that it could crush the Minnesota Vikings with Nick Foles at the helm. And Carson Wentz was only in his second year when he went. 11 and 2 as the starter for the Philadelphia Eagles. Now, some of those quarterbacks did have previous experience, but still, McCarthy had

everything behind the scenes, everything with the offense, everything from day one of OTAs. He is the guy all the way through. Everything is laid out for them to be a legitimate contender. But here's what I want to get into is the details with you, Judd, because there's only so many humans who feel like they know what J.J. McCarthy actually looks like. And that's why when I hear some of the national dialogue, it's sort of funny. It's like you and I have watched 40 practices of J.J. McCarthy, whereas the outside world has watched two

preseason games. So you wrote down through training camp, and I respect the heck out of you for doing this, every single pass that J.J. McCarthy through. So let's talk about the details of what J.J. McCarthy actually looks like on the practice field. I want to begin with the accuracy discussion, because the way that I was charting it and the way that I was viewing it throughout this summer was some routes and some passes for him are extremely comfortable and extremely consistent. And other ones aren't. And I think it's Kevin O'Connell's job to lean into the ones that are and avoid the ones that aren't. Because right now, I don't think that he makes every single throw in the book. I also don't know that a lot of quarterbacks actually do. So what was your takeaway on the

accuracy conversation about McCarthy after this summer. Well, first of all, and I've been saying this, and we saw this from the first day he played here, is the arm strength is really good. So like the whole thing about his arm strength was nonsense. I don't understand where it came from. Yeah, well, yeah. Well, I just said, I said, you know, I see some problems with your game, dude, but not that.

And he's like, I don't know. But I mean, seriously, because it was like a huge knock. But yeah. So, and I do think he worked on this in camp. So I'm curious to see how this. evolves because he's still at what 22 so like he's evolving but you know we talked about the layered throws a lot of times weren't great he would try to drive the ball through guys instead of over guys and of course in college football you could probably do that or it's incomplete in the NFL it gets

picked off and goes the other way I do think he's going to throw some pick six is because of that but um I saw development I saw growth you know what else I saw it so it's a small thing but But I think it actually might become, and this is partially because the offensive line should be improved, but it's also because of the touch of the quarterback. I think the screen game, I think he throws a nice screen pass. And it's funny, you know, the Vikings for years, the screen pass worked. And when the screen pass works, Matt, you're just like, of course it works. It's the easiest playing the book.

Look, you're just lobbing the ball to the guy, and the guy runs and he gets 20 yards. And then you see it, you know, Kevin O'Connell, right? 22, 23, 24. It doesn't work. And you're like, oh, my God, this is ugly. Like, what's wrong? And I never thought that, and I don't know if I can be statistically backed up by this. I never thought that cousins looked incredibly comfortable in the screen game. The offensive line certainly did not. So like when I see the screen game with McCarthy, I thought, that's not bad. I think he throws a pretty damn good deep ball, not as good as Darnold. He sometimes can air the ball out a little too much. I mean, that was Darnold's strength.

The one thing that I'm really curious about with Justin is going to be that 20-yard over the middle route or 15-yarder. Now, Darnold had the arm for it, but didn't throw it great. He didn't have the touch. And that's the one when push comes to shove in games. I'm really curious because McCarthy has the arm. But you know what? Sometimes that throw, and it's so weird because there's just like this much margin for error. Sometimes that throws a little bit behind a guy.

Sometimes that throws a little bit in front of. And it's got to be at the right place at the exact right. right time. So, I mean, I think it's fair to say this. McCarthy, I think, has a lot of upside. I like a lot of his throws. He is a work in progress. But that's where O'Connell comes in. In fairness, too, you know, Vikings fans for years, the last really good offensive coach that this team had was probably Dennis Green. And O'Connell's been known for being very good. But you know what? This one is on him a lot, I think. Like, you know, Kirk, he helped Kirk improve. Now, Kirk was a statistical monster, basically the whole time.

But he definitely, Kirk won games because of Kevin, I thought. And then Sam Darnold is case in point like the poster child, right? But this one to me, like when people are like, well, McCarthy has to do this or that. I don't disagree with that. But this is also Kevin. And I keep saying this. I think the referendum on Kevin O'Connell for 2025 is not can he work with a quarterback. I think he's answered that question.

I think the referendum is Kevin O'Connell is a place. play caller. I think that's going to be the key thing. Can he stick to the run? Can he can he because, you know, he has always, and I think it's tough in games, right? You're calling plays and what do you do? You revert to what you know and he knows the past. He wants to pass. But they have a run game now. And so I really think where Kevin O'Connell's going to have the biggest impact on JJ is not the teaching. I think he can do that. I think it's in game Sunday afternoon, 2.45 p.m. crunch time. what do you call? Because if you dial up the wrong thing,

you could be setting the kid up to fail. What's so interesting about that with the O'Connell part in the play calling is at the very beginning of the game, this team is awesome. And at the very end of the game, this team is awesome most of the time, not against the Rams of the playoffs, but most of the time.

And it's really that third quarter, sometimes the late second quarter, can you put a team away? And even he made in training camp crack about how well, you know, it feels like we always end up with these close games at the end. And it's sort of like, if we could only find the person responsible for that, but I also think that the people responsible for that in part were the fat guys in the middle that just weren't good enough over the last, as you mentioned, number of years. And where I will give Kevin

O'Connell some plausible deniability, not all, but some is that would you feel like you could pound a team's face in. If you were running behind Ed Ingram, Dalton Reisner, Garrett Bradbury, Blake Brandel, I mean, these are guys when you look at the data on how good of run blockers they are, even Bradbury, I think was above average at one time. I'm not sure that he was after in that outside zone scheme after they stopped doing that with Gary Kubiak. I'm not sure he's been an above average run blocker. It's in his skill set, but it's not really in the numbers where it shines. It's more of mid with a different type of run scheme. So now you have Will Fries, who's a very good run blocker.

I think Donovan Jackson, that was his strength in camp where that goes past protection-wise. It's going to have some bumps along the way. Ryan Kelly should be fine. Their tackles are phenomenal and their running backs are phenomenal. We were both wowed by Jordan Mason during training camp. I mean, he was, I think, one of the biggest stars of training camp. Their run game looked really effective. So if it's succeeding and then you're not leaning on it, then I think that that's an issue.

But just going back to McCarthy and the accuracy, what I saw from him that I liked was that when he ran stuff like play action and he could get in a rhythm where he could roll out, fake the hand off, set his feet, find a guy bang. I thought that he was very successful in throwing those types of routes, especially ones that were coming over the middle. when it was a straight drop back with a lot of chaos and we saw a lot of chaos from Jonathan Grenard specifically a lot of chaos and maybe the feet get a little bit or maybe the timing gets a little bit that's where that touch that natural touch that some of the freaky accurate passers in history it doesn't change at all where I thought that it did for McCarthy and there were a few times where it just oh it just flew over someone's head by 15 feet and we don't really know why kind of like you know i know you're not a big golfer but i'm a

big golfer where i might be having a great round and then just hit one just blade one and roll it along the ground and go why did i do that oh i know it's because i play golf once a week so and i think that there is some element of that with j j mccarthy where didn't throw a lot of passes in college didn't throw a lot of passes last year and where you saw training camp that impressed me judd was as it went along, more and more rust came off. More and more refinement was happening. And when we got to the joint practice, he looked like a pro starting quarterback who was accurate enough. And the other part of it too, I'm curious about your take on this. I think that his athleticism is going to shine when he gets in real games. That Sam Darnold could scramble and did it occasionally. I think

J.J. McCarthy likes to run. And I think that that's going to be a legitimate problem for defenses, especially on third down, that he's quick and he's going to make plays with his legs. That brings up a really interesting point because it looked like in practice and I don't blame them because he's wearing a red jersey. He can't be hit. But they definitely wanted the quarterbacks to hang in the pocket and make throws. And he got uncomfortable at times as most would. But there were a few times and we also saw this on fourth down in the preseason game. He played against Houston where he scrambled for a first down. And that's what I agree with you completely I think there's a thought process of, well, he's coming off of meniscus injury.

He's probably not going to run that much. First of all, he looked fine. When he did run, he looked fine. Second of all, I don't think you can take that to go back to your golf game thing. I don't think you can take that club out of his bag. Like if he gets hurt, it's really unfortunate. He gets hurt. But if you, like, ground him and they're like, no, no, dude, you can't run for this.

You can't run for that. And when he took off against the Texans, I thought that was a very good sign. Like, that's the type of play to me in the training camp, practice is. It felt like often didn't work for him. But in that Houston game where it's just a case of you got to do something, like it's a real game, he takes off, gets the first down, gets out of bounds. He's definitely the fleetest of foot. And this is sort of damning with faint praise. He's the fleetest of foot Vikings quarterback I've seen in a long time. Like Darnel had more mobility to shuffle than Kirk. Kirk was a bad shuffler. If Kirk took off, he could run a little bit,

but it was very plotting, I always thought. Darnel was more athletic. McCarthy's more athletic than that. And I also felt like when McCarthy did roll out at times, he looked more comfortable throwing. So, yeah, there were, to go back to the Houston game, and we saw this, I think we saw this pass get picked off in a training camp practice as well.

It didn't get picked off in the Houston game. But that lucky Jackson pass he threw, what was that? About 15 to 18 yards downfield and just sailed. If there had been a safety there, it gets picked off. That's the type of pass. I'm like, okay, is that going to translate to what he's normally going to do or is that a play where he's going to do something different? I will say that's a play that Jefferson, like that's a Jefferson staple play. That ball has to be brought down.

So I think it's going to be really interesting to watch, but I think your run game prediction is a thousand percent on. I think we're going to see a guy that uses his mobility. I also think he does have an ability to shuffle at times. Like that was a thing that I always came back to with Kirk. He had no pocket presence. He couldn't feel it. and that's why you get sacked, right? Like, you watch the best ones.

It's not that the quarterback goes five yards down, you know, five yards towards the sideline. It's just a step or two, but it buys himself time. So I am very curious to see this, but I do think that also what this offense has in totality now, to your point, offensive line improved, run game improved. J.J. McCarthy is not stepping into a job where it's, hey, kid, you have to carry us. It's, you've got to be a big part of this, but we also. also gave you a lot of parts.

This team has offensively and defensively, man. Why's the last time you remember this many parts being added? Like there is a, there is a world in which you could even win close games, low scoring games too, because this defense should be that good. So I, I am ordinarily, I'm a huge skeptic. I am pretty optimistic about things as long as they have health. Well, and this does remind me, you talk about going back 10 years or whatever, to 2017, that training camp, we did a lot of nitpicking about who was cornerback number four

and whether McKenzie Alexander took the next step. And if to Sean Bauer was flashing. And then, you know, at the end of the day, it was the starters. It was the great players who made the difference. And that will be what happens here is the great players are going to decide games each week. And I think that they can outlast a lot of other teams because they simply have more good players than other teams do that they don't have a glaring weakness to me. You can say, Now, when I say weakness, well, what about cornerback depth? I'm not talking about depth. I'm talking about the starting lineup of the Minnesota Vikings.

Now that Thielen is here, I feel like that's pretty solidified. Also, long term, it's three games. Addison will be back. Yeah. Adding Thelan to that mix is even better because one of the weaknesses I thought was Jalen Naylor as a complete wide receiver. Well, there's kind of a balance there of the underneath and the deep now. I mean, it is, they're deep at running back.

They're deep at tight end. they're like there's a lot of de line they were able to move on from harrison phillips because they have so much confidence in jalen redman levi drake rodriguez it's a freakishly talented team so i i guess when it comes to j j mccarthy there's there's two things i think about with him one is how does he balance i'm just curious to see wanting to be a playmaker because this was something i noticed in the practices he wants to make a sidearm throw to the back of the end zone on the scramble. And I think what Kevin O'Connell was saying and Josh McCown was, look, live to play another day because look at the team around you. So where does that mentality fit? I think he can do

that. But he seemed to struggle a little bit balancing that. Here's another thing I wanted to ask you about, because you and I have talked about this out at practice, but obviously not on any podcast form, is where do you think that the team is at in their feeling with J.J. McCarthy versus is all the noise that happened months ago. I don't know how exactly you processed all of that, but there has been definitely a difference of opinion between how sold the Minnesota Vikings were on with J.J. McCarthy. Personally, I think that the proof is in the decision

that they decided with this stacked roster that they were going with him. Do they believe in him? Well, look at what they did? But what did you make of all that versus kind of where we, stand right now? Well, I think there's a lot of things here. First of all, Aaron Rogers, if I'm right, called the Vikings. And he's like, I'm out here. Your team's good. And they talked about it. I don't really blame them. Like they didn't invite. Now, if they thought it was going to stay quiet, they're fooling themselves. So I'm not saying that, oh, it should have stayed quiet,

which is what I was told they would have liked. But of course, they would have. Every team wants to keep its private business private. But I don't have a big problem with the discussion. Now, I didn't like the idea. I think he's a locker room problem now. I don't think he's worth, I don't, you know, there was time he was the best QB in the league and it was worth it. That's not the case now. But, you know, beyond that, I didn't, it's not to me like they're like J.J. McCarthy can't play. And I just kept coming back to one thing. They took him. He's the first top 10 quarterback. I mean, this franchise been out since 1961. He's the first top 10 pick as a quarterback because Culpepper was 11 in 99 the franchise has ever made. And, and,

And so, you know, I thought if they had worked harder to hang on to Darnel, which they did not do, I would have been like, okay, you, you don't really trust this. Because in my opinion, one of the great advantages that the Vikings have is a rookie contract. Like, that's part of the game here, right? Because if J.J. McCarthy is really good, guess what? In what now, four years, five years, he's going to cost a ton. And now you can't add Jonathan Allen and J. Bon Hargrave. But I didn't have a real, I didn't have a problem. I thought it was interesting.

but it's not like I thought they don't trust him. And, you know, they also gave him the keys to the car. Like, no matter what else they did, and they didn't bring in five guys. I actually have, it's funny, my bigger question, and now in retrospect, it's been quashed because of the events of recent days, my bigger question was the backup because I never bought that Kevin O'Connell had any interest in Sam, Sam Howell was somebody else went and got him, in O'Connell's like, whatever, we've tried everything. Daniel Jones didn't want to come back.

We couldn't get this guy. We couldn't get that guy off his couch. But I didn't have like some real struggle like, oh, here go the Vikings again. And you've seen that. I mean, we both covered that, right? Where they sort of, they sort of overthink things to the point of screwing themselves up. I didn't think that that ever was close to happening. So I actually appreciated, hey, we'll kick the tires.

Rogers called us. my last thing too is and i know i've had people disagree with me vehemently about this but i don't think kevin o'connell likes to upset quarterbacks so if rogers calls do they entertain it partially because it's erin rogers and i'm his friend yes you know there's people who still think they tried hard to keep darnald and he left well they made him a cursory offer just like they did Kirk. They don't want to offend you, but that doesn't mean that they truly want you back. And I felt that there was enough of a flipping of the page to the J.J. McCarthy era that it wasn't like they were about to go classic Vikings and screw this up. I agree. And I think that

all of it just making sense to exactly what we thought it was going to be, even if there were some, hey, what about this? I like to point this out that NFL teams employ a lot of people to have meetings about stuff so they'll have meetings about stuff what they should be concerned about is that they had people in their building telling reporters from the outside about their meetings that they're having and they should wonder who's telling people about our meetings where we bring stuff up i mean i felt the same way about the jefferson and malik neighbors thing if you're in a meeting about the wide receiver someone should say hey what if we traded jefferson for neighbors and they should go um no okay on to the next idea you should say what if we brought in aaron rogers you should do that

but then you don't expect that to end up in front page news after that uh so they should be more concerned about that than you know maybe some of the other things i also think too that they wanted to see him in the first offseason workouts see how the knee responded see where the weight was sure see how he was throwing the football see how he led the team where he was with the playbook and they had time to do that. If he had gone out there and looked like Kellyn Monde, it looked lost and looked like he hadn't put the weight back on everything

and the OTAs, then they would have been in the right to say, Aaron, you better show up because we're in a little trouble here. So why not use the time that you have? None of this was abnormal to me. That's my thing. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying that none of it was weird. And yet it was kind of presented as, you know, a conspiracy

or kind of weird. That was a little bit weird to me. But versus now, this to me is what's happened all throughout camp is the best case scenario. The one injury that they had was Jalen Naylor heard his wrist or hand or something. We're not sure about that. And then Rondale Moore, which I felt terrible about it. I think we all did. But still, that was like wide receiver four or five. It's a now a healthy team with a quarterback who took every single rep, stayed healthy through every single rep, looked like by the. the time they finished joint practices, they were ready to go. I think this is exactly how they would have dreamed it up, that they're making a move

at the last second to just help out J.J. McCarthy a little more because they feel really good about it. Yeah, that's true. I mean, the only thing that I can come up with as a Zolgatian point of concern is the punt returner does concern me. It actually does. Now that is full Zolgat. I mean, Miles Price, God bless him, but he bobbled a fair catch against the Titans. I would just like, Rondale more intrigued me because he's a veteran and he doesn't have a boatload of punt return experience, but he had enough where it's like, I think he can just catch the ball. And I know that there was, that they were charged with finding a Brandon Powell replacement who could get more yards, but as O'Connell now keeps saying, you got to catch the ball first. But if that's your, to go back to your 2017 comp of this whole thing, if that's the biggest, like, oh my God, what about the punt returner? Don't fumble, which, you know, you don't want to do it in Chicago.

that's a pretty mild concern. And yeah, at the end of the day, the Nailor thing actually might benefit you because going to get Thielen doesn't hurt you one bit. I think he's still, he's 35, but he can still run routes. He knows your system. You know, at the end of the day, I think he can push Nailer for the three spot now once Jalen's back. And if he doesn't get it, that's fine too. He's, you know, he's back here for a final run. This is probably it for him.

so yeah you're you got a good point there's a lot of things of oh my god what about that and it's like okay if that's your biggest problem you're probably in pretty good shape going into the season so a lot of fans have brought up the odds for the vikings to win the super bowl you know you go over to fan duel and our partners at fan duel and you'll find that the over under hasn't changed since McCarthy had a good training camp it's still eight and a half and you'll also find the Green Bay Packers have better Super Bowl odds than the Minnesota Vikings over their fan duel. I think that the gambling market is being reasonable in the same way that it was last year in thinking that, hey, Sam Darnold's your quarterback. The guy's never done anything.

And I also think that the locals such as ourselves who just watched training camp are also being reasonable saying, hey, I think that it should be better than that because we've just watched this team in action during training camp, the same way we did last year with Sam Darnold and we said, you know what? That's actually looking pretty darn good or the same way that we were on the under in 2018 because things were not going as well as they should have. How confident do you feel? I don't actually know your prediction.

Like you're going to have to tell me what your prediction for wins and so forth is. And then you've got to give me a percentage of confidence because I haven't moved off mine. I had 11 wins and a playoff win. And then let, you know, Jesus take the wheel from there. But like, that's where I've, that's where I've got it. And my confidence in that going into camp, I would have said is maybe like 40%. Like, I'm, okay, 11 wins. I think that's right.

I think I'm now at like 75% confidence or 80% confidence that that's where the bar should be for this team after seeing camp. So I have not yet done a confidence ranking like that. I'll be happy to do it. I believe I have put them at 11 wins, which is, of course, what three off what they had a year ago, but it's good enough to make the playoffs. And my recurring statement is this. make the playoffs and win a playoff game it's go time like to me that's where the o'connell pressure is

dude's won double digit games two of his three years we know he can win in the regular season he has summarily got his ass handed to him in the playoffs um the Giants game they didn't lose huge but it was a bad loss especially in retrospect and then last year you in my opinion you really had back-to-back playoff games right that Detroit game was huge would have gotten you by the top seed and you got your ass kicked like literally got your ass kicked it reminded me of the uh was it the 2019 loss to the 49ers in the playoff game yeah like you got your butt kicked literally and then you went and played the rams and you got your butt kicked your quarterback sacked nine times so i've got them at 11 wins uh i do think they are tougher now and they're not just saying

that they are a year ago and they did start out tougher but a year ago it was hey we're going to have a tougher training camp, and we're going to show you, Garrett Bradbury can be an ass whopper. And then the season starts like, oh, that's pretty impressive. And then we got to when it counts in the winter and it wasn't impressive. So I would put my confidence at the 60%, 60%, it's probably fair right now. I, you know, the division's incredibly tough. And the schedules are not easy.

Again, I'll go back to what I said. The only team that I don't understand the infatuation yet is the Bears, because I've got to see more there. and I'm not convinced that Ben Johnson, Ben Johnson's a great OC, but Matthew, how many guys have we covered who are great coordinators? And they step into head coaching roles

and they're kicking guys out of practice. And these guys are adults and say, I bleep you and don't listen to you. So I put my confidence at 60 to 65 percent and I put them on 11 wins, a decrease from last year, but I think the most important thing is a playoff win. I want to see them win a playoff game, though.

Let's see, that's why I'm not totally confident yet. He's got a, to me, that's a big hump to clear. Can you get your team in the playoffs and can you win a playoff game? Because the thing about, you know, you look at who's at fault and Donald and Detroit was terrible. I actually think the Rams game. I don't put nearly as much of the Rams loss on Sam. He got sacked nine times and they were awful. But it's my opinion that when you play in January, it's a different football. And the Vikings and Kevin O'Connell have never been prepared for it previously.

So can you go in prepared and play that game? And that again, it's all coming back to me, play calling to what are you dialing up? Because what you dial up on October 15th is not necessarily what you can dial up on January 5th. All right. Here's one for you. Here's an our fun game for you. Of the Viking schedule, I want you to name a game that you would say I'm intrigued and

I want you to name a game where you'd say, I'm scared. And I want you to name a game where you'd say, Bart Scott, can't wait. So I'm intrigued. I'm scared. Okay. And can't wait. Well, I'm going to call up the schedule to make sure that I give this my best possible effort. Yes.

Yes. Thank you. I appreciate that. I did not prep you on anything. So this is something that I cooked up a Zolgad special. I've gone through the schedule a bunch, though. So, okay, so I'm intrigued. you know what there's a great one here and a year ago i think this is an i'm scared game

sunday november ninth u.s bank stadium baltimore ravens love that i am intrigued because again baltimore what do they want to do they want to physically impose their football will on you and quite frankly the viking at times especially around that time of year it's it's ordinarily where it begins to turn a little bit the vikings have had their with o'connell they've had other teams will imposed on them. So that to me, I mean, Lamar Jackson, yes, but Harbaugh just has these tough as nails teams. And so I'm super intrigued because do the Will Fries, the Ryan Kelly's, who I love. I mean, that guy looks like he'd kick your ass just for fun. And then, right? So, you know, the J. Von Hargraves, Jonathan Allen's, like, do those guys in a game like that make a

difference? So that's my I'm intrigued game. next one you want i'm scared yeah i'm scared that's an interesting that's an interesting one because i can tell you my eyes i'm scared well you know what it is it's probably before that it's probably it's probably october 19th philadelphia okay that that's probably my pick but i like that probably and i'm scared one i'm intrigued by that too um but yeah that's probably my i'm scared game because that strikes me as a team that could very easily come into your building and win um not too much rattles the eagles when the eagles are playing like they can i will say that it's a weird team can go very up and down but that would probably be my i'm scared

what's yours uh my uh well actually i'll just give you all three after you give you the can't wait i'll just give you all three of mine when when you're done so what's what's your can't wait oh my can't wait the last game green bay packers again love it green bay packers here flex game with any luck again it's a prime time game so there's no Monday night game in week 18 so and I think it was a Sunday night game last year right so yeah that's my that's my yes can't wait game that's and the finish of the season

too I mean Christmas day are you kidding me and then here and then and then the game against the Packers here Christmas day Christmas day we got the Vikings and Wolves what that's pretty cool what a present day what a present so those are my three imagine not loving all sports and you would not have as good of a Christmas and the one's like a nine too so

you got time to get home so my I'm scared game I'll start with that is chargers it's at the chargers because they play the Eagles I think the Vikings and if you look at historically at US Bank Stadium how good they've been anybody comes in you got a chance to beat them even if the Eagles are better than you at that point you've got a good chance to beat them because you're you and it's US Bank Stadium and we saw how they played against the lions last year they were one swing pass away from beating them or one, I think Addison needed to catch a ball across the middle or run the right route or whatever it was. They needed one more first down to beat the lions. And then they went to Detroit and got pummeled by two thirds of that lion's roster. So

I think that told a pretty clear story going out to L.A. to face a Jim Harbaugh psychopath team that's going to run 47 times and had a top defense in the league last year. They're a nasty team. they're physical. They drafted a running back who's like Ironhead Hayward or something, only faster. Who would be a recent reference? I guess like he's, you know, Derek Henry sized almost. Oh, Marian Hampton, he's just enormous. And then fast, it's like, that's tough. They've built up their offensive line. They've got a great quarterback who knows the system. I think the traveling team on Thursday night after playing the super physical Eagles is a nightmare situation. And so I am scared of that.

As far as I am intrigued, I think I want to go Bengals week three. I'm just very intrigued by Vikings and Bengals. How does Flores defense match up? Isn't that a J.J. McCarthy 32 yards? That's what I was going to say. Right? Score 35 points. The Vikings don't do that a lot, but score 30, score 30 plus points, give up 21 and go home

and eat dinner. Exactly. And as far as, can't wait. I've never seen Lamar because they played him in 2021 at Baltimore. I believe that's the last time they played him, the time the guy on the sideline pushed somebody for the Ravens gave him a free first down. And before that, the last time they played Baltimore at home, I, I think was that Joe Flacco 17 where we covered it together. Yeah, it's right. So I really am interested. Just can't wait to see Lamar Jackson versus Brian Flores. And, uh, okay, I love your list. Love our list.

Last question is, what was your favorite time covering football with me? I have my favorite Zolganian experience, of which there were hundreds. I was going to say, that's one. I mean, that's so difficult because you got games, you've got moments of, you know, you got the Philadelphia, not debacle, but being stranded there because it was snowing back here. You've got, you've got the Minneapolis miracle, which was, you know, phenomenal. And we were both like, what just happened? I mean, that's the funny thing is, you know, these guys are dialed in up in the press box.

We're like, what just happened there? That just happened? Oh, my gosh, there's so many, including the bad games when we just sit there and laugh because the football is so bad. And believe it or not, folks, there at least were. It felt more like in the Zim era for a while there. The early 2000 or the, yeah, the early 2020s, right? There were some like just dreadful games. But I would have to say it's the Saints game.

It's the miracle because. that game also to go back beyond the digs catch, that game was such a great roller coaster in discussion with us because the first half, the Vikings are kicking their ass and we're like, oh, God, this is incredible. And then what I loved, because I think we both agreed completely, was the second half. It wasn't that we were bashing the Vikings.

It's like Drew Breeze. First of all, Sean Payton figured some stuff out, credit to them. But the other thing is Drew Breeze in this hostile environment. And how many good quarterbacks have we seen wilt? in that stadium like just wilt like curl up in a ball in a fetal position and drew prees just starts picking them apart and we were i just remember we were both like it might sound weird appreciative oh yes like it's like this is quarterbacking like this is quarterbacking at the highest quarterbacking level and then of course the play to end it so i would

have to say that just because that game will always stand out as far as the fact that i appreciated that you appreciated that we were both like this is incredible yes yeah I would love to go back and find the post game podcast for that one. And that's, that's definitely the best moment. But I think a few things of traveling on the road together, there was the time we got stuck in Philadelphia and we had to go buy socks from a CVS or something. And the other one was we sometimes tried to save a little bit of money on certain trips. So I booked us a hotel in who the hell knows where, Wisconsin.

And we show up at this corn town in the middle of nowhere. and there's two restaurants there's a culvers shout out to culvers i love them and then there was a supper club yes and it was like well we're really hungry why don't we just go supper club and it was like walking into somebody's house yeah and it was like a four-hour meal or something they just kept bringing a stuff the waitress hit on you it was no the waiter pinched me oh that's right it was a waiter he pinched me in the hip he's like how how's that taste in but the funny thing is right the food was phenomenal it was incredible i got like uh it was incredible i'm rib or i got a steak i forget what i got it was it was incredible yeah you're right it was going it was like going into a movie

where you somehow wake up in the basement and you know whatever zombies or something that's what i thought was going to happen to that place couldn't get the check there was like one small tv with college football on in the corner that were crying is that the fresno state bulldogs and there's a bunch of counties the townies were all around the drinking their beers right yeah and we were the only out of towners i forgot i was trying to remember what the waiter or waitress did to you they the pinch the pinch the guy pinch me's like how how's that taste and it was unbelievable what town was that i have no idea it wasn't that far green bay right because i don't remember the drive the next morning being to being terrible oh that reminds me there was also a pretty

crazy game in green bay that we covered a tie in which somebody thought they remembered the way back from Green Bay and drove us, I think it was the tie game or maybe it was a different one. I don't remember which one it was, but I definitely got. I didn't, I didn't pick up 29 and I kept driving a half hour out of the way. At least. Thank God. Yes. Thank God. I eventually realized that that was bad. The Philadelphia trip though was great for because yes, we, we, so we got stranded despite the fact that it was fine in Philadelphia, but it was snowed back here and it was, what month was that, January by then? Yeah, it was like 60 degrees in Philly. Yeah. Yeah, Philly was gorgeous.

So we get stranded there and the two things I recall about that was, yes, going to buy socks. And by the way, I guess I bought a pair or a pack of women's socks. Yes, they were lady socks. They were fantastic. They were really comfy. Yeah. I was very upset from then on that guys get bad socks. And I also had to go by a shirt.

So I got an Eagles NFC championship shirt the day after the game because all the stuff hit the stores, which I still have. But then the other part that was great is I think that was the first time I really met Courtney And and it was in the Ruby Tuesdays and this was like a this was honest to God like a Netflix show We only ate at the Ruby Tuesdays and the great thing about Courtney at least at the time was She had about the same demeanor as us yeah like she was like a 42 year old guy Like she's just like what's going on just like so excited by it but it's seriously it was like a it was like a netflix show it was great i will let you describe Courtney that way i know exactly what you mean though uh that she she fits in in the

environment yes but she was not like it wasn't like oh my god i'm covering you know she's like hey what's going on yeah yeah we were all so got that was why we ended up at ruby tuesdays you would think and i remember my wife asking me like why didn't you go to downtown philly why didn't you guys do something cool when you were stranded there we were so exhausted from that run from the minneapolis miracle i said see why the Vikings lost, then we were like, I don't know, the best we could do was women's socks and Ruby Tuesday. That's the best we could do.

And we were so guest. And we were staying out, as I recall, near the stadium. And in Philly, and it's great, the stadium's right by the airport, but you're nowhere near, like, you got to drive into downtown. And so, yeah, everyone else is like, yeah, we're going downtown. We're going to check out this steakhouse, right? And we're like, we're just going to go to that salad bar because that Ruby Tuesday salad bar is unbelievable, great salad.

Oh, man. I do miss going on the road with you, Judd. There is nobody like you. So I appreciate your time and all the, all the effort that you put into tracking every single pass. And if people have not signed up for your newsletter, I am, I believe, the first paying subscriber. Yeah, because you help me launch it.

That's right. That's right. What is the, what's the Zolgad on sports, Zolgad ball? What is it? No, it's still, Juddzolgad. That substack.com. Okay. Now, I really should get a domain.

I think you told me about this. I don't know how to do that. I need help with that. So I should probably buy a domain because it doesn't cost much. But as of right now, yeah, Juddzogad.com. I try to write about all sports, but this time of year, it's mostly football. It's football. Thanks for your time, Jedd.

It's fun. All right. My great friend for a long time, Judzolgett, who if you heard the beginning of that conversation, helped guide me through nine years ago arriving. in Minnesota. I was reminded that it was today, nine years ago at 2016, that I became a Minnesotan, started covering the Vikings for 1,500 ESPN with Judd. We worked together until 2020 and remain very, very good friends and partners in the press box the entire time that I have covered the Vikings, the man to my left, for all those moments, for all the ups and downs,

wins and losses, Minneapolis Miracle and everything else. Zulgad has been right there next to me at U.S. Bank Stadium. So I can't thank him enough for joining. And some of you have asked, well, why does a judge come on the show more? It's got to be special, folks. It's got to be special when we are on the precipice of a fascinating season to start for the Minnesota Vikings. That's when you bring on the Zolgad.

And I'm sure he will be back on again soon enough. So later on tonight, Drew McGarry will also join from Defector. And there is only slightly a not safe for work warning on that one. I did ask Drew to keep it to a minimum. And of course, he swore in the first two seconds. So anyway, that's going to come a little later tonight because I wanted to make sure that we had a conversation. A lot is happening with the Minnesota Vikings.

So chat, what is on your mind? And if you're just joining the veteran corner that the Viking sign was Fabi, Morrow, who was with the Vikings last year, played just over a hundred snaps. It was kind of a forgettable 100 snaps or so that he played, but he was on the field, if you remember when Stefan Gilmore went down that Fabian stepped in. And right now, even though he is technically signed to a practice squad contract, if they were going to play a game today, Fabian Morrow is going to have to be active. and he is a guy that has played a lot of football over his career.

He was a starter from really from 2018 all the way through 2023. Last year was the first year. He did have a year in 2020 where he didn't play a whole lot. I don't know if that was an injury. But every other year, Morrow has been a starter in the NFL and has had a long career. It has been, you know, I'm thinking okay starting career for Fabian. And he can get in the game if you need him to. he can help you survive through a couple games and that is the best you can say for a veteran who's

on the practice squad. But I think the main message here for them signing Fabian Morrow is that they are still going to likely need to do something at the cornerback position to feel a little more sound. But you know, as we say that though, and I was thinking about this just about how we get so focused. We get so horse blinder dialed in to they need this depth. They got to get this player. They got to get another guy here or there or make one more deal or whatever. And then you kind of forget that their starting cornerback situation is pretty darn good with Byron Murphy and Isaiah Rogers. You forget that they're going to play three safeties a ton with Theo Jackson is going to be on the field with Josh Mattelis, Harrison Smith. That is a,

heck of a starting defense overall. And then, yeah, you go one layer down. And if your season has to rely on Jeff Okuda, then you're starting to get a lot more nervous. That's your depth. Okuda would be in line to play maybe 500 snaps. And then you do have Dwight McGleather in there. I agree with all of you that want another corner that want to feel a little bit better about the depth. But it might be possible that for right now, unless Stefan Gilmore just shows up tomorrow, it's possible that Fabian Morrow is your veteran depth. And then Zemaya Vaughn and Dwight McLeathern. So Vaughn was promising during the offseason.

McLeodern has a little bit of experience from last year and two training camps under his belt. They might not feel the same level of desperation as all of us to go out and get another corner. and this may be it. So does that feel like it's a little wobbly? Does it feel like that's completely rock solid sound, one of the best cornerbacker?

No, it doesn't. But let's not forget Byron Murphy's on the team and that Isaiah Rogers has been a good corner during his career. He's going to have to take on more this year, but he's shown during training camp that he's a starting outside corner in the NFL. So maybe it's not a travesty if they go with this group only if they get hit with the injury bug, then you're starting to say, well, all right,

now you've got to have Dwight McLeather and Jeff Okuda out there. But let's all keep in mind that at the same time last year, we were saying this about Stefan Gilmore and Shaq Griffin. Shaq Griffin hadn't practiced much in camp. Oh, man, that's a problem. Stefan Gilmore is 100 years old. That's a problem. They finished with the top five defense because they were so good up front.

And I think whatever corner they bring in who, you know, from the outside or bring in the game in general, is going to probably be a better version of themselves because of the amount of pressure that can be created. So if this is it, I know that there's going to be a lot of disappointment. I won't be shocked if this is it. I personally think that they should add one more corner. But we are talking not, I won't say, I won't use Quasi's phrase of champagne problems, but a little bit though, a little bit. look around the league and you go to other defenses and you they have three four players who are unproven no sample size somebody that got hurt and they're filling in a spot and this team has every spot on the defense filled they're so deep at defensive tackle they traded harrison phillips

away they are three deep at linebacker they are three deep maybe four deep at safety depending on how they feel about j ward and you have this one spot but they will need i will say when they play nickel. They need Jeff Okuda to be a guy. And that's where I think there's more nervousness with Jeff Okuda needing him to be a significant player. If that ends up happening, that's somebody that's been a great story for camp. The coaches have raved about him. They've really liked what he's brought to the table. But his history of injuries and his history of performance just doesn't at this moment, give you a lot of confidence that he could play 800 snaps for you, if called upon. But, you know, look at the market.

Tell me who is out there that you think you're going to get right now. Like, what corner? This is why when they signed Fabian Morrow, then everyone comes into the chat and goes, I thought you said they got a veteran corner. Well, he is a veteran corner with six years or whatever of starting experience. It's just not the superstar that you wanted to get. But I don't know who that's going to be. looking over the corners who were released,

there were a couple that were picked up on the waiver wire ahead of where the Vikings could have picked someone up. I don't know what name is out there, what player is out there, that at this point in the game, there's another team saying, you know what? Yes, you may have our corner. It's probably unlikely, right?

So it's really Stefan Gilmore or somebody else in the free agent market or they're just going to stick with what they have. uh, Kendall Fuller is definitely a name. And I, and I agree that Zemaya Vaughn looked promising. So that's somebody who has looked like there is something there. We just don't know exactly, uh, what that is going to be. But the fact that McLeathern turned it around in camp and made the team again and, and all that. I mean, you know, that also can't be forgotten because last year, everybody was very excited about Dwight McLeathern. But now it's like, oh, we've seen that guy he's old hat, you know, so whatever. But if they're, if they're good with McLeathern, then that kind of swings this a little bit.

If they feel good about Vaughn, but they just believe that they could get them through to the practice squad, that swings it a little bit. So we're going to learn about their confidence. If they go out and bring in Stefan Gilmore or sign somebody else who gets cut, then yeah, right. Sure. Then your argument would be right that they felt they desperately needed a corner, but they might not. They might have watched it all summer and said, I think we're okay with this. And the defense did dominate all summer. So, you know, there's that part of it, too.

Let's start with Son of Beavers here. This is why are we working out a safety? Do you think something is up with Smith? Yeah, Kavon Wallace was a workout player. That I don't know. They did keep Tavier Thomas on the 53. And I assumed that that was as a special team's play. but they may view Wallace as a potential versatile upgrade from someone like Tavier Thomas,

who you really can't have on the field playing defense at all. And Wallace has played a little bit in the slot, a little bit in the box, a little bit deep, kind of like a typical Vikings safety. But I don't have the answer to that. I don't want to go into until we see them out there practicing for the first time going into the season. I don't want to go into the what's going on with Harrison's. Smith because he missed some time at the end of practice, but when we get out there for next week and what we can see during the regular season is the start of practice where they do all

their warmups and individual drills. So we can see who is practicing. We don't watch the entire practice at that point because they're game planning and everything else and they want to keep that close to the media, which is fine because it gets colder outside. I don't think any of us want to stand there and watch a whole practice in the middle of the season anyway. But we will able to see Harrison Smith out there or not. We'll be able to get injury reports, all that stuff. And we are talking tomorrow with the GM and the head coach. So maybe there's an answer there as well. He'll give us an update. But I don't know. Like they might just be interested in Kavon Wallace and have him in and maybe think about putting him on the practice squad. I don't want to

start putting these things together until we have some sort of concrete answer. But you would have thought it would have been a corner. You definitely would have thought it would have been a corner. I guess what I'm just preparing you for is the possibility that this is your cornerback group. And they might not go out and try to look for someone else. And bringing back Vaugh and getting Morrow does change it a little bit. It doesn't make you over the moon excited, but Morrow is a former starter. And Vaughn was a rising UDFA that had a, I thought a really good training camp, but some of the decisions on the 53 are based on who can get through to the practice squad or who they calculate can get through to the practice squad. So that may have

factored into Vaughn getting cut. Sometimes we just don't know those things, those discussions that go on. And McLeatherin has developed for a year. They feel really good about the starters. And this is just a little bit of a, hey, you got to go leap of faith with Brian Flores because he's proven it with Jeff Okuda, I have been not super willing to do that, but they might be. Kevin O'Connell might be. If Jeff Okuda has played well enough in their minds, if the defensive staff where they say, no, we're good with this, then I think if you're O'Connell, if you're the front office, then all right, well, if you think you're good with it, then you're good with it.

If they're not, then they might go out and get someone else. But it's, it's getting late to do that now. it is getting quite late to add anybody else after like every single day is a big chunk closer to week one in the start of the NFL season and they also just to throw it out there could wait until the end of week one and that's where you can sign players without having to fully guarantee their money or to so like those things could play into it as well. Is there a reunion with Cam Dantzler, hero killer? I don't think so.

I haven't seen Cam in the NFL. I think he was in the UFL last I saw him. Exposé players are fans of teams growing up. Do they typically keep that fanfare after retiring or tend to become fans of the teams they played for? I think that would probably be a player to player. I don't think that's a lock for every single guy is like X. I mean, if you were a New York Jets fan growing up and you have a great. Minnesota Vikings career. You're a Vikings fan because that means they put a lot of money in your

wallet and they may just star and you're in their ring of honor or something like you're going to be a Viking fan for life. You play for eight different teams. You know, I don't know. And a lot of NFL players, they actually don't end up watching as much football once they're done. They become oftentimes extremely casual football fans because it's just worn them all the way down. So there's a lot of different ways that that can go, I suppose. R-Y-N says you have to beat the Eagles, they run the ball.