Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Vikings special teams coordinator Matt Daniels joins to talk about why he loves his job (and what happened to the punt-off)

Episode Date: September 2, 2022

New Vikings special teams coordinator Matt Daniels sits down with Matthew Coller to talk about how he ended up coaching special teams, what he thought his career path was going to be while he was at Duke, why he loves CJ Ham and why there was no punt-off before the team picked Ryan Wright.  Plus CBS Sports' Bryant McFadden gives insight into his podcast co-host Patrick Peterson and discusses how the old Steelers 3-4 defenses thrived and what the Vikings will gain from improvements in culture.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, and this is a very special episode. I have two interviews for you. The first is with Minnesota Vikings Special Teams Coordinator Matt Daniels. We got into a lot of different topics, including starting off with why there was no punt off, so you'll hear that in just a second. Also, with the all things cover podcast and CBS sports, Bryant McFadden, he talks about Patrick Peterson,

the three, four defense, what it was about the Pittsburgh Steelers culture that allowed them to win so much with Mike Tomlin. So off we go. Let's start with Matt Daniels, Minnesota Vikings, special teams coordinator. All right. We with Matt Daniels, Minnesota Vikings special teams coordinator. All right, we welcome into the show Minnesota Vikings special teams coordinator Matt Daniels. What is up, Matt? Great to have you here. Hey, how we doing? Doing good, doing good. You know, I want to get into a lot of your background and some of your philosophy.

Also, as a kick returner enthusiast, I want to go back and forth with you on some old school kick returners, but I have to ask the question that all the people in Viking land need to know. So you went to the podium and you made a promise to us that in the third preseason game there would be a punt off. I was told. I got excited. I bought a stopwatch that was going to keep how, you know, how long the ball was in the air. And there was no punt off, man. What happened? There was no punt off. So I didn't technically say that there would be a punt off in the actual game. I did not say that, but I did say that there would

be a punt off. And Kweisi and K.O. came to me and said, we cannot go into the game with two punters and that's kind of where the no pun off stemmed from because we kind of had a couple injuries at the corner position and we needed some extra bodies just to be able to get us through the game and be able to evaluate a couple more players and because of that we had to make a decision maybe sooner than what we wanted to but we are happy with with Ryan Wright. Okay I did think about canceling the interview request after that happened because I was that upset. No, I mean, it would have given us something to, like, have fun with and track in the last game.

But then Ryan Wright showed you in that game that there was no necessity for a punt off. I mean, what, 71 yards, 68 yards. The guy has an unbelievable leg on him. He does. He does. And, you know, I believe that Ryan Wright might possibly have a top ten leg in this league, if we're just being honest.

The way he goes about it is process. The guy has a really, really strong leg. And if you look at it, most punters are a jab, one, two, punch. Ryan is more of a jab, one punch. And so the operation is a lot faster. He's getting the ball off in under two seconds. And for him to have that type of – to generate that type of power with that short amount of steps in his approach says a lot.

He can also fill in at long snapper or middle linebacker. I mean, that's a meaty puncher. He's a hefty man. He's a hefty man. And, you know, we've had a conversation about, you know, because, I mean, honestly, he came in a little heavier than that. But with our dietician, he's done a great job with Remy, kind of trimming down his fat, really trying to get back into true NFL shape.

You know, I'm not too particular on, you particular on whether you weigh 260 or 250, but definitely want to fill in at his most prime, where he's feeling like he could be at his best. He's probably sitting right around about 250 pounds right now. Yeah. Well, I think if there's any fights between punters pregame or something, that you're in a pretty good spot. I like my guy. I like my guy. I didn't just want to grill you about the punter. It would be funny if I wrapped up the interview now and just left, but I really wanted to get to know you a little better because you're new here in Minnesota.

You played in the league. You were able to carve out a role for yourself as a special teamer. But I checked your LinkedIn, and I wanted to question you about something in your LinkedIn. At Duke, you said you refereed like rec league stuff. I did. So why don't we talk about that and get a sense in your LinkedIn. At Duke, you said you refereed like rec league stuff. I did. So why don't we talk about that and get a sense of your background? You actually refereed rec league stuff.

Rec league, intramural games. I did intramural soccer. I did intramural basketball, flag football, any sport really. We even had like an intramural lacrosse team that I actually did intramural games for. And you know, as college kids, you're just looking to gain a little extra dollar here and there. That's kind of what that stemmed from. But it's funny, when I was an intramural, I was working a flag football game, and I majored in public policy at Duke, which is micro, macroeconomics. We were required to fulfill an internship. So I was going into my senior year year and I had not found an internship yet that I was ready to do to fulfill my requirements that summer.

And so there was actually a guy by the name of Malbert Smith who owns a company called Metametrics. And he was watching his son-in-law play. And so there was actually a player who was heckling me throughout the entire game. And I'm staying poised. I'm very composed. I mean, he's grilling me, grilling me, grilling me. And so after the game, this president of Metametrics, Malbert, comes to me and introduces himself, say he really likes the way I carry myself. He actually was a Duke alum.

And he was telling me about this company that he has. And I was. He actually was a Duke alum and he was telling me about this company that he has. And I was telling him I was a public policy major. He was like, wow, me too. And I've actually worked with a lot of students with their internships. And I don't know where you were at in that process, but I'd love for you to come in and be an intern for me. And that's kind of how I was able to get an internship, fulfill my degree and get my degree in the public policy. That is a way better story than I have from doing a summer of refereeing, literally baseball games. I guess you never know where you're going to meet somebody. So that was what you were going to do if you didn't end up in the league. But at that point

in your life, did you envision a career in the league? I mean, because when you go to Duke, I know Danny Dimes is in the NFL. There's not that many Duke players who end career in the league? I mean, because when you go to Duke, I know Danny Dimes is in the NFL. There's not that many Duke players who end up in the league. Usually they go do, like, good stuff for society and so forth. At that point, did you have any idea that you would have a career in the league? So it's funny. When I was actually in my senior year, I actually had an opportunity to go with J.P. Morgan after I finished playing. And I kind of had my sights set on actually doing that, the financial advising, the stock broking.

I was a big math guy, big into the market. I really enjoyed doing that. And so I kind of had my sights on doing that. But I ended up finishing out. I had a heck of a year. My senior year, first team, all ACC. I was a second team, all American. And so I finished second in the ballot behind that darn Luke Keekly for, you know,

defensive player of the year. But, hey, you know, that guy. Whatever happened to him. You know, whatever happened to that guy. That guy turned out pretty good, you know. But, yeah, you know, so kind of after I finished up that year, I mean, I realized, like, dang, I'm actually pretty good at this. And so I wanted to pursue it.

I had a fourth, fifth-round grade on me coming out, and I ended up actually tearing my meniscus on my pro day, which resulted in me going undrafted to the St. Louis Rams in 2012. And so that's kind of how my football career kind of started off. And when you're that guy who's undrafted and you've dealt with this, I mean, out here, like that is a really tough hill to climb. So how were you able to stand out and carve out a niche for yourself? Yeah, I think for me the biggest thing was obviously becoming best friends with the special teams coach who I actually ended up collaboratively working with when I first got into the NFL, John Bones Fossil.

And I became best friends with him. He taught me all the ins and the outs of actually what it took to be a great special teams player. And, you know, I realized early in my career what it would take, what my role would be, and how I would contribute to a team. And so I took that. I ran with it. And the most important thing was really me just making the most of every

single opportunity that I had every single rip was like the last rip that I would ever take and because of that it paid dividends for me in the end did you see yourself at some point after you were playing were you going to go back to JP Morgan or like what was it like what what sparked the passion I'm always curious about this though with special teams coaches because like everybody wants to be Bill Walsh or Bill Parcells on offensive defense, but John Harbaugh can be a hero to all special teams coaches. But, you know, I guess how do you end up taking that route as a coach to go into special teams?

Yeah, that's a great question, Matt. And, you know, it's something that I always have a ready answer for because I tell it to myself often and the way I look at it I always talk to myself about what is purpose and people kind of throw that that word around and purpose like okay well what actually is purpose and for me it's where love I'm sorry passion passion passion people throw around what they're passionate about. And so I ask, like, OK, what is passion? And to me, passion is where love and purpose collide. And so what am I really passionate about or what is it that I truly believe in and want to do? Well, I see myself as a servant leader. And in this game, after I was finished playing, I wanted to be able to touch and impact as many people as I could.

And I had opportunities to be a DB coach in this league. And I turned them down because as a DB coach, I can only impact but so many people. Right now we have nine or ten DBs on this team. Well, that's only ten people I'm only able to put my hands on. Whereas a special teams coach, I get to coach everybody. I get to have a relationship with Kirk Cousins, Brian O'Neal, Ryan Wright, Justin Jefferson.

And so between me, the equipment staff, the training staff, and the weight room staff, we're really the only people who actually get to indulge and put our hands on every single individual that's on this team. And that's kind of how I see that. I see myself as that. That's how I'm really a purpose-driven person and I'm very passionate about putting my hands and being able to pour my everything into these players and so that's why special teams was a route that I wanted to take I'm always so interested in the guy who becomes something out of special teams like I know you just got here but you know previously like Steven Weatherly or Anthony Harris I'm sure you're familiar with these guys yes and you've seen C.J. Hamm.

I'll get questions all the time like, well, you know what? What do they love so much about C.J. Hamm? It's like the guy does everything. He does everything. Every single unit of special teams, and you need people who know what they're doing. So I guess like what is the reward or rewarding feeling for you when you see somebody who kind of has maybe some reflections of yourself as a young player? You know what I mean?

Oh, yeah, definitely. And, you know, you look at a guy like C.J. Hamm, and, you know, the question comes up a lot. Like, what does a really good special teams player look like? What are the traits that he has? And I can just ideate it for two things, and it's versatility and courage. And you look at a guy like C.J. Hamm, and he's got it all, right? You talk about a guy that came into this league as a running back, was asked to move to fullback, and it's like, yes, sir, right away.

And he immediately able to pick it up, right? From you going to a running back to a fullback, obviously you've got to have that courage, right? Because we're talking about thumping in the hole, meeting Mike Will, linebackers. And so I look at a guy like C.J. Hamm, and the number one thing is he's a versatile football player. I can line him up at right guard, right tackle, or right wing, or PP on punt,

and he's going to know what to do, and I don't have to give him too much instruction on it. But that's just the type of guy that he is, and I trust him. And at the end of the day, I know that I can put him in a position, and I can always expect for us to have a matchup plus and a matchup advantage when it's a one-on-one situation trust him. And at the end of the day, I know that I can put him in a position and I can always expect for us to have a matchup plus and a matchup advantage when it's a one-on-one situation with him. And it's just interesting to me to sort of study a player's development in the league when it's someone like C.J. Hamlet.

Absolutely. The first game that I covered when I moved here to cover the team was a preseason game, fourth preseason game, whatever. And C.J. went out there and crushed it. And then it was like, oh, okay, well, this is just the guy who does the thing game, fourth preseason game, whatever. And CJ went out there and crushed it. And then it was like, oh, okay, well, this is just the guy who does the thing in the fourth preseason game. It's like, oh, he's on the team. Oh, he's getting opportunities.

Oh, he caught a go route. You know what I mean? Last year it's like, I mean, he could do so many different things. He had to play tight end a little last year. And there's very few players who are able to do that, these guys who carve out great niches. And then when you see on cut-down day how hard it is, so many of those players have had great college careers,

and they came in, they got money to sign here or got drafted, and they're not able to do the things that he can do. There was another thing that you had brought up in a press conference, though, that I wanted to switch gears and ask you about, which is the kick-offs. The kick-offs, yes. And kicking it off short as opposed to kicking it through the back of the end zone i can't tell you how much i love this because a i miss the days i grew up in the 90s i miss the days they run it from the 20 and it did not matter right yeah right and it did not matter like if it

was deep in the end zone a lot of times these guys just take it out anyway bringing it one of the most exciting plays in football uh but i think it's a fascinating approach to say if we could pin them a lot of times we could create a negative play for the offense and there are a lot of times where i'm watching the game and i think you should you shouldn't bring it out of the end zone because it might actually be bad for you you're like you need a great return for that to matter absolutely absolutely and you know like again you you look at the schematics of it obviously you got to pay attention to the personnel, who you're up against, who the returner is. Because on the flip side of it, I say three out of the four true opportunities of what can actually take place when the ball is in play. Well, you flip it and it's like, well, if that's the case, then if you look at it like that, then you probably shouldn't be bringing the football out.

Well, you know, I got Kanae Nwongu, who is a difference maker when the ball is in his hand. So, you know, obviously those are the type of things that you have to look at when you start talking about putting the ball in play. Right. I mean, because the way that you broke it down, it's basically like, look, there's a lot of penalties. A lot of penalties.

There's fumbles. And most of the time the guy doesn't get to the 25. He doesn't get – And if you look at yards per return in the league, I mean, if it's Cordero Patterson, you don't want him doing it. You don't want him doing it. And Kanae. But how many guys are like that?

Like that in college, it used to be back in the day, that was a real skill and talent. And now it doesn't even really matter in college because so many guys are kicking out. I know. And now you've got the whole fair catch thing, which is mind-boggling to me. Like a guy, the ball can get sky kicked to the 10-yard line,

and fair catch, and it takes it out to the 25. You i just i don't get it i don't get it and you know it's starting to just they're trying to do away with special teams it feels like dadgummit this is i know they are this is so perfect though because ryan wright is the only guy out here in the field right now as we're doing this interview and he's punting just by himself that's my guy there you go he's out here grinding i love it um 14 baby let's uh you know when he was asked what number he's going to switch to from 66 he wouldn't say yesterday so now i'm gonna break this break this huge news on the show um the 66 thing should have been able to stay i wish i i requested ko to put in a request with the nfl to to for him to keep the 66 man but it was a no go it didn't go

so uh i know you have to get back to work, obviously. But I did want to ask you, when you were playing or even as you were growing up, like who were your favorite kick returners? I'll give you a few of mine so you can think. Eric Metcalf was probably my favorite. Oh, Eric Metcalf. I love Eric Metcalf. That's a great one.

That's a great one. Dante Hall. Dante Hall was a great one. Leon Washington I was a big fan of. I usually do like a Mount Rushmore of returners, right? And so there's two guys. So the NFL league leading our record right now is tied between Leon Washington and I'm sorry, yeah, it's Cordell Patterson, Josh Cripps,

and Leon Washington is up there. Percy Harvin is up there. And that's the top four. And then, obviously, you got that man, Devin Hester, who has five. But out of those five returners, all right, look, we're a quick history for you. Two of the guys on there have something very in common with Kanae Nwongu. They were drafted by the Minnesota Vikings. Oh, yeah, of course.

Cordell Patterson, Percy Harvin. So there's something in the water here. I don't know what's brewing. Kanae has two already. Needs six more to go in and tie it up. Let's see if we can get it done this year. Why not? Percy Harvin returning kicks.

It was like if they had Barry Sanders doing it. Spooky. Spooky season, man. This has been super fun. Oh, I was actually going to ask you one more thing. Did you ever see the XFL kickoff, the original XFL kickoff? Yes, yes, I did. What did you think of that?

Well, you see, that's funny because we talked about that. We had a meeting with the NFL officiating crew, and they just don't like the look of it. They don't like the look of it, you know, if we're just being honest. But it just makes so much sense. You eliminate all of the running, you cut that down, and you basically get to play every single time, right? Every time.

Every time you get to play. And they were getting creative, the coaches. They were, like, running reverses with it. All that. Oh, you love it. I love creativity. I'm all about creativity. See, that doesn't make any sense because the NFL has always been about change.

Absolutely. Like, way back in the day, they used to put mattresses on the sidelines so the guys like i mean this league it's you know they've changed everything about it like right i think it looks great i think it's an incredibly exciting play um i did an article where i interviewed the guy who invented it sam schwartzstein oh shout out to him um but uh maybe someday maybe someday until then someday you'll keep you'll keep giving us some returns by pinning the guys back that's Schwarzstein. So shout out to him. But maybe someday, maybe someday. Someday. But until then, you'll keep giving us some returns by pinning the guys back. That's right. But it was great to get to know you.

I really appreciate you taking the time, man. I appreciate you, man. And I know you're going to the fair at some point. I am. I will get out there. Either Saturday or Sunday, I'm going to get on out there. I can't wait. I've been hearing a lot about it.

Kirk Cousins has told me a few things. I won't put Kirk out there like that. But I'm going gonna go take a look at it see experience for myself yeah i know he's a big fan well thanks so much for your time man really glad to have you on the show absolutely appreciate it special thanks to matt daniels for that really fun conversation and for the vikings for setting that up in a very hectic time in Vikings land. All right, now on to my conversation with the great Bryant McFadden, a former NFL cornerback, the cousin of Patrick Peterson, and co-host on the All Things Covered podcast.

Off we go. All right, well, welcome into the show, Bryant McFadden, the All Things Covered podcast, CBS Sports, former Pittsburgh Steeler. What is going on, Bryant? How are you? Welcome back to the show. It's always a pleasure joining you. I'm doing pretty good. Thank you for having me. Yeah, sure thing. So we got a few things I want to discuss with you, but people may know this. Your podcast is with Patrick Peterson, your cousin. And I just had a really good conversation with Patrick the other day about him coming back to the Vikings, why he continues to love football and continue his

career when he could very easily put on a gold jacket and retire anytime he wants. I mean, few people know him better than you, Brian. I would love your perspective on that because I am so intrigued by a player that has accomplished so much in his career and yet still wants to keep coming back at it like Patrick does. Yeah, I think most importantly with Pat, the hunger to compete is still in him and that drives him. The competition, when you look at some of the great players that are still currently playing in the National Football League, specifically speaking, Tom Brady, I mean, he still has that hunger. And that is what is driving him to continue to lace up his cleats and put on his helmet. And I think for Pat, that's the same mindset because individually speaking, you know, he's done everything you would want to do at his position as a professional player when it comes to individual accolades.

But he still wants to compete. And then most importantly, outside of the competition level, just that hunger that drives him. He wants to win a championship. You know, he wants to win the ultimate team goal, being able to hoist a sticky Lombardi, as I like to call it. And that's something that he's eager to try to accomplish this year with the Minnesota Vikings. So he's fired up as he's been. This might be the most I've seen him when it comes to being fired up and excited about a season than I've seen in quite some time. And he understands that that goal is definitely there for the taking. But, you know, a lot has to go into to it for that to become a reality so he told me that even from the time he was 10 years old when he first started putting on pads that he just

loved everything about the process of getting ready to play football games and that's the part that he still loves and that still continues to drive him i mean you've you've known the man for a long time i mean was he always liked it I mean was he always like this ultra competitive that he would still be at this point wanting to push himself as hard as he possibly can to be great no question uh he's always had that mindset of being great whatever it was he was participating in you know being great and I can remember going back to his high school days so yes I'm I'm quite a few years older than Pat. But when I came out of high school, I was the number one corner, you know, one of the top players in the country

had the who's of who knocking on my door. And I remember when he was in high school and at that time I was in the league, I said, what I need from you to do, I'm gonna challenge you. I need you to do everything that I did plus more. So I need you to go out and do everything that I did from the

high school level plus more. He's like, I got you. I got you. And he said it so casually, like it was easy. And then lo and behold, a year and a half, two years later, he's the number one corner in the country. He's the number one player in the country. And of course, he had the who's knocking on his door. And then once he got to Lsu you know it's the same thing i challenged him and he went to lsu with the mindset of doing something different that was one of the main reasons why he went to lsu because if you think about lsu football before pat got there cornerback play wasn't highlighted you know what i mean if you go back and look at florida the florida states of the world ohio states you know everybody's always hollering DBU, DBU. But if you think back and go back to the 80s, Florida State was a DBU university. If you go back to the 90s, if you go back to the 2000s.

But LSU really started to get that DBU mantra when Pat got there. Right. When he put on the infamous number seven and took it to a whole nother level. And that was one of his main reasons he decided to go to lsu was he wanted to create something for that university that never was done before which is magnifying the cornerback play defensive back play and he was one of the trendsetters that got that trend going for lsu yeah and then you know throughout his career he's got all the accomplishments and everything else but i think last year it was clear that it was driving him that people were

saying oh he's too old now like oh look at this you know Arizona's moving on or he's not coming back to Arizona can he still do it and he had a very good year for the Vikings last year so now he returns and they're going to rely on him a lot I mean he because the other guys behind him are not as proven as him he is cb1 on this team and i think that that's an interesting dynamic because it's basically patrick and then a bunch of younger guys but he seems to like really like that environment of being able to help develop some of these younger players i mean he's a team guy he loves the the mindset of getting together under one accord and taking care of business you know when it comes to football, we used to say all the time in Pittsburgh,

we're in the business of winning because that's what we're supposed to do. When you win, everyone is happy. Everyone is pleased. Everyone is getting promoted. Everyone is getting paid. But when you don't win, things start to get shaken up a little bit. And for Pat, he's in the business of winning. And the only way you can win in the National Football League, you've got to have everyone

on the same page, not just the starters, but the depth players, because the role players, because at some point in time, they're going to have to have hear their number called and they need to be ready. So Pat takes on the challenge of communicating, helping other people out. He's not a selfish player. He's not a selfish superstar. This is a guy that believes in the next man up mentality has to be something that will be documented but when they're up they got to be ready to go and that starts with the leaders on the team being able to help the young guys and he gravitate he gravitates to that assignment okay explain to me though why it is so challenging for young corners i mean i know i know that it is for every position in the nfl it's the highest level. So everyone has a development curve.

But even by the numbers, there have been studies on this, like what positions take the longest. And corner is usually one that young players struggle a lot and develop. You've had to go through this. Patrick has gone through this, although he was pretty good right away. But a lot of players take quite a few years. What is it about that position that is so uniquely challenging? Most importantly, it's the mental aspect.

The thing about playing cornerback in college football, nine times out of 10, the wide receiver you're going against probably won't get drafted, probably won't get a shot. So even if you're not as knowledgeable about the schematics of what they're going to do just your athleticism and your god gift of talent is going to allow you to prevail and be successful but when you get to the national football league that level it doesn't matter what team you're going against how bad their record is that wide receiver is a beast he might be on a bad team but he's a beast so now you just can't

rely on your athleticism and your talent. Now you have to rely on the above-the-shoulder game. And if you're not there mentally, it's going to take some time. See, some kids come into the National Football League just relying on their skill set, the talent, the athleticism. You need more than that. So it's just a learning curve when it comes to studying film, breaking down your opponent, the individual you're going against, the wide receivers, the quarterbacks, and also understanding what they like to do in situational moments of the ballgame.

Most offenses have five to six plays they run all the time. It doesn't matter who they're going against. When you can figure out what they love to do, regardless of the scheme that they're seeing, then you can put yourself in positions to be successful. And that's the learning curve that a lot of young corners struggle with. And that's when the veteran presence in the meeting rooms help these young corners in learning how to watch film. When I got to Pittsburgh, a vet by the name of Deshae Townsend, who's coaching for the Jacksonville Jaguars,

he was a guy who helped me in regards to watching film the right way. Because if you're not watching film the right way, you're just watching, you're right way because if you're not watching from the right way you're just watching you're not learning anything you're not gaining anything from it so that is the best answer i can give you in regards to why some young corners struggle before you actually see them flourish and be the player that they can be now you were with the Steelers when they I mean the Steelers pretty much always had great defenses but you were in kind of like the the second run of great defenses because they had the 90s where it was like Greg Lloyd and Kevin Green and Levon Kirkland and then the second run uh is when you're there when they have James Harrison and all those great players Casey Hampton the big man in the middle now now Casey Hampton is one of my favorite players to watch

because he just ate up like three dudes all at once. It was incredible. But that was still 3-4. I mean, 3-4 Pittsburgh. Now, 3-4 defense is not now what it used to be. Now everybody plays nickel. But what are some principles of that thing that you remember that made those Pittsburgh defenses great

that would still apply to a defense now? Well, what made our 3-4 so dominant? You talked about Casey Hampton. He was the anchor of our defense, playing the nose guard. Casey was the ultimate anchor. Anytime we dropped that anchor in the ocean, we know the shit wasn't going nowhere. He was our foundation. What also made our 3, four so dominant,

our defensive ends were super athletic, but they were so fundamentally sound. Their technique was something that they relied on because it was their job to keep our inside backers free. See, in our three, four, you didn't really see a lot of numbers, statistically speaking, coming from our defensive ends when it comes to sacks and pressures, because their job was to keep our inside backers clean. And that's why our inside backers made so many plays. And then when it came to outside rushers, man, we had defensive ends that were standing up that looked like defensive ends, but they move like safeties. When you look at the Joey Porters of the world, James Harrison, as you mentioned, you talked about uh lloyd jason gilded those were guys who were six four six five 260 plus but moved like safeties and they also were were were were real

good in dropping in coverage and then in the secondary man you just gotta have guys that can flow number one tackling was our most important thing in the second day before they talked to you about coverage for pittsburgh back in those days will you tackle right will you tackle and are you tackling because you have to are you tackling because you want to those are two different things right you know what i mean and if you didn't have that mindset that i tackle because i want to you're not going to last in our defense. And then the coverage element came into play. So that was the makeup of our defense. And if you look at how Pittsburgh draft, as you mentioned in the 90s and 2000s, we had like-minded guys that was coming in.

Now, James Harrison was the one outlier because he wasn't 6'4", he wasn't 6'3", he wasn't 6'5", but he had everything else the other great outside linebackers had. And most importantly, the last thing in regards to our defense and what you needed to have. You needed to have a mindset that you were okay in sticking your face in the fan. Think about the old school fans. If you took off the front part, you just see the blade. For us, will you stick your face in that fan?

That means will you stick your face in that fire that means will you stick your face in that fire it doesn't matter who the ball carrier is will you put that ride out in their chest that's what we just say will you stick your face in the fan most people like what are you talking about go get an old school fan and take take the front of the the cover off and now you just see the blade running turning turning you got to be a man to stick your face in that to be willing to and that's how we looked at the game of football in tackling and wanted to tackle so that was a mindset you know those fans were not safe at all for children how in the world you know there are a lot of things because you and i are pretty close in age within a couple of years there's a lot of things you look back at and you're like that maybe should have not been the case and uh fans that you

could just open up and stick your face into not not good not good um they don't have those anymore but now with that though is am i wrong in making a comparison of zadarius smith and james harrison a little bit i mean zadarius smith is just this like not super tall guy like you mentioned but just a violent dude and i think that you, I was talking the other day about how, if the defense makes progress, it's of course going to have to cover. And it's of course going to have to stay healthy. You and I've talked about that before. Like that's every team all the time has to stay healthy,

but I feel like Zedarius Smith and his role in this defense, being able to move around wherever you want them. And the way that he plays can be the engine that Everson Griffin was for them before. No question. I think he has to, I think you look at what he's so far in his professional career. You want the same type of energy plus more. If you put the Darius and the Neil Hunter opposite of each other,

somebody got to get home. One of those guys has to get home. And that's one thing Pat has emphasized on our show. All things covered. This is the first time in his career. He's playing with two dynamic pass rushers at the same time. If those two guys get home, it's going to be a nightmare for whoever the quarterback is. Easily, Matt, I see both of those guys getting double-digit sacks. That has to be the bare minimum.

Number one, both got to be healthy. You know, that has been an issue for Daniil over the last few years. That's the first thing, right? Both guys got to be healthy. But if they're healthy, the bare minimum has to be double digit is a lot of unproven Patrick Jones DJ Wanham like they really need to to be healthy to create the pass rush it's kind of all on them I think that that's kind of the linchpin to the season right like it kind of rests on whether those guys can stay healthy and produce what they need them to produce agree agree but if they're healthy the bare minimum for Minnesota Viking fans, you got to see double digit sacks from both guys. That's what they're, they're paid to get home.

And what I mean when I say get home, the quarterback is home. That's where you got to go. Get home. Find a way to get home. Right. Yeah. And, and both of them have obviously proven that they can. Okay.

One more thing for you, Brian. Because you came from the ultimate culture organization and culture coach in Mike Tomlin, I'm curious about your observations just about how this new regime for the Vikings is handling things. Mike Zimmer was old school, and he did a lot of things in an old school type of way. There's more of a modern approach here. But I do think that there's more of a modern approach here um but i do think

that there's a balance between getting your message across and like doing it in a way that sort of gets players to galvanize with each other and behind you as a coach so i'm curious what you think that like if you were to tell a coach if kevin o'connell came and asked you hey brian what can i take from mike tomlin that will make me a great culture builder? What would you tell him? The best way for coaches to earn the trust of their players is to make them feel like they relate to that coach. Relatability is one of the more important skill sets a coach needs to have. Because when you make yourself relatable to your players, now they feel comfortable in being in your presence. They feel comfortable in listening to you and orchestrating what you're telling them to do.

Because when players respect their coach, they're going to listen to them. When I played in Pittsburgh, like you said, under Bill Cowher, under Mike Tomlin, we all respected their word, right? But it even went even further with our defensive coordinator. Dick LeBeau was a guy when he walked into the room

because of the respect we had for Coach LeBeau, we're paying attention. Whatever foolishness we had going on before he walked in, we put it away because this is the man I respect. We all respect him.

If he said, you know what, B-Mac, give me a right arm. Here you go, Coach, because I respect that he needs it for something that's going to help all of us be in a position to win. So we're being relatable. And one thing I can say about Kevin O'Connell, the energy is at a different level. And you can contest to this because you're running a building. The energy is different, right? People are excited. It's almost like the update

has finally came through with that new iPhone. And now everyone feels like, you know what, we're up to date. We can rock and roll with the who's of who in the National Football League. And then just being a former player, not too far removed from the league. Remember, he was in the league a few years ago, right? So he understands that mindset of being able to relate to your players because when you can relate to them, they're going to feel comfortable. I don't care what profession you're in. If you're in the workplace and you're uncomfortable,

you're not going to be your best. Yeah, I totally agree with you. Yeah, I totally agree. You're not going to be your best. Being comfortable allows you to be your best, whatever it is you're doing. And Kevin O'Connell, what type of player coach he is, he came on the All Things Covered show when we were there in Minnesota a few weeks ago, and he said, and I asked him said can we ever will we ever see you do the gritty he said out

his word out of his mouth if they find a way to make it to the nfc championship game he will do the gritty that's that's a player's coach like that we love that coach like okay you you you you you challenging us you gave what you gave us your word. If they get to the NFC Championship game, remember, Kevin O'Connell got to do the gritty. Okay, that's funny. Yeah, and from how much they put, as far as effort and thought, into culture, it is kind of going from rotary phone to iPhone 13 a little bit with the previous regime. So, okay, one more thing.

I thought about asking you if Florida State will be back, but I don't want to hurt you. regime so uh okay one more thing i thought about asking you if florida state will be back but i don't want to hurt you um so uh what what i'm sorry man um there's no problem it's you know you know back in the day though char i was like a charlie ward guy so i it hurts when florida state isn't good but i was just gonna ask you about like this this season give me the team that you have been pumping up in the offseason you can't say the vikings because you do the pod with patrick peterson it's not fair you're biased on that one but uh the the other team that you think is being overlooked in the

nfl as we go into the season philadelphia eagles week two philadelphia philadelphia eagles yes i think they're being overlooked. I think Jalen Hurts is going to surprise a lot of people. The roster has improved dramatically. They're the most talented team in the division, and they're going to win the division. I go with the Eagles. Yeah, I could see that, especially since Dallas might fall off.

Don't you think that the first two weeks kind of determine how this whole thing is going to go for the Vikings? Yeah, yeah. If you want to know exactly what type of team you have in Minnesota week one and week two, I'll tell you everything. Because, and the reason why I say that you're playing against two playoff caliber teams and you're playing against two teams,

I think will be real good this year. And one team has owned you in the division. So two things are going to happen. Either you lay down week one and week two and you start off 0-2 or you take care of your business week one and now we really see exactly what type of leadership you have going into week two. Because if you take care

of your business week one, it's not like you won the season. It's over. But that's kind of getting that big brother out of the way. We finally took care of Green Bay. And granted, you've beaten Green Bay before, but just to do it in the week one is huge. Now where you go in a week to pat yourself on the back, or you still be dialed in and say, you know what? We're not done.

We're just getting started. Right. Yeah. I mean, from a, the perspective of even just confidence in the coaching staff, like if you, if you go toe to toe with a great coaching staff and an all-time great quarterback and win in the first week. Like right away. It's like, OK, wow, we're in for the players. So that's it. That's a good point. Follow him on Twitter at B-Mac underscore sports talk. The all things covered podcast CBS Sports as well. Brian McFadden, great to meet you in person for the first time, by the way.

We've talked a number of times, but we were able to meet out in camp and, uh, always, always learn something from you every time we talk. So, uh, thanks for coming on, man. Appreciate it. All right. Thank you,

ma'am.