Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Vikings training camp storylines: Justin Jefferson's chemistry with JJ McCarthy (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

Matthew Coller talks about Justin Jefferson's outlook for training camp and how we will be able to tell if he has chemistry with JJ McCarthy. Plus Vings fan questions and Maggie Robinson's Monday appearance.

Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of purple insider Matthew collar here. And we are just about nine days away from the Minnesota Vikings taking the field for an actual training camp practice. Whoa. That leaves us a little bit of time to have some final conversations, previewing training camp, which I'm excited about. And nobody loves more than me to dive into the backend of the roster, to the undrafted free agents, to the Mr. Mancados, to the,

who is the seventh round draft pick who could suddenly emerge. I mean, and look through the years There's been some really fun examples of this some have worked out better than others But I was thinking back today. I was on a flight and it got delayed So I had some time to sit in a chair and think About the Vikings and training camp and I was thinking of some of the names that popped up Through the years that were really fun stories of like, Hey, I never saw it come in with nausea Thompson.

Give you a little nausea Thompson story before I get into the main point of tonight's show. There was an intern for a local TV station that came up to me and a couple of the writers and just asked for some advice. Hey, how should I go about covering this training camp practice? I've never been to one before. What should I do? And I said, you know what you should do? You should go up to Najee Thompson and you should talk to him because everybody's going to surround

Justin Jefferson at the podium and everyone's going to surround Jonathan Grenard when he comes off the field or Blake Cashman or whoever. I forget what year this was. No way. It must not have been those guys, but you know what I mean? The stars. Dude, this was, it must've been two years ago. So whoever it was, the star players at the time, everybody's going to surround

them and talk to them. So you'll probably not get any opportunity. So what you should do is you should stop the guy who's probably 90th on the roster and you should find out his story because I'm sure he'll take the time to talk with you. And the other writers who will remain nameless laughed at me and they said to Najee Thompson, why would you tell the kid to go talk to him? He's not making the tea. And I was like, I don't know.

He might. You never know. And I don't recall whether the kid actually went up to Najee Thompson and took my advice or not. But then a few weeks later, Najee Thompson started to become a guy for the Minnesota Vikings. And when they had the joint practices against the Titans, he was winning the one on ones. When it came to the special teams, which are really energetic in those joint practices, there's a lot of guys trying to make that effort to show they should be on special teams, which are really energetic in those joint practices. Uh, there's a lot of guys trying to make that effort to show they should be on special teams. Najee Thompson stood out there.

He ultimately ends up making the team, making an impact and so forth. So you never really know because if I were to have ranked everybody in 2023 camp for their chances to make the team, he might've been like 89th and he ended up making it the same thing for Dan Chesena a couple of years ago. Never would have seen that coming. Ivan pace, like I could have predicted that he might make the team as a backup linebacker, but I never would have thought he would have actually made the team. So that is always a really fun part of previewing training camp, thinking about it, getting

ready for it. Who's going to be that guy this year who takes us by storm in training camp but one thing that we can have a tendency to do as we're talking so much about the new guys and the the undrafted free agents and where they're gonna fit in and which which battle for tight end three or wide receiver five or defensive tackle five or outside linebacker six is going to make it again. Great conversations. I enjoy them, but we forget to talk about the most important players sometimes on the team

because we just kind of go, well, they're just, they're just settled. We just know they're going to be great. And so we don't really have to talk about them. But I think that we do have to talk about them and I'm excited to do so. I want to know from you guys, which star player at training camp you think is the most interesting. And I'll start the conversation with Justin Jefferson. Now I want, I do want to say that Justin Jefferson at training camp, if you get a chance to go and get a chance to see him at camp, it is a sight to behold. And especially if you get a chance to see the joint practices, the night practice, where

the energy is ramped up a little bit, because I think of all the players that I've seen at training camp, if I were to do a ranking of all the most Impressive training camp players off the top of my head Justin Jefferson's probably number one I think Everson Griffin might be number two because Everson's never slowed down never stopped never took a day off and He drove everybody crazy. I think on the offensive line They wanted nothing to do with it by the end of training camp because he was so violent in those camp practices. Stefan Diggs was another one that went hard all the time, got into some, you know, tussles with Xavier Rhodes and got a couple of times a little bit heated in the same way that he

does during actual games in camp, but he was smoking fools. He was really taking it personally every single day in training camp. And Justin Jefferson is right there with any of the best training camp players that I've seen. Delvin Cook was really impressive early in his career when he was trying to prove himself. I know running backs can't really run into people, but he was going for contact a lot of the time.

And it was always interesting to see veteran players and how they approached it to ramping up, getting more and more into it as it went along. But Jefferson, I have never seen him not take a practice seriously, not put in a complete effort every single day that he goes out. The one-on-ones, the seven on sevens, the 11 on 11s. He's trying to make every single day that he goes out, the one-on-ones, the seven-on-sevens, the 11-on-11s, he's trying to make every single play. He's trying to embarrass his own teammate, cornerbacks, and put on a show for the crowd.

And he really does try to do that. I think that that matters to him, that the people came out and he knows that they wanna see him catch touchdowns. So he catches touchdowns over people and does gritties into the end zone. He hypes up the fans, like the, the energy of this man. Remember there was the, the one year where he got hurt in training camp. I think it might've been 2021 where

he went down and injured his shoulder, maybe an AC joint type of injury during camp. And for the rest of the entire training camp Jefferson walked around with a football in his hands like every single day He walked around with a football in his hands until he finally was able to get out there There are a few people you will ever Run into in your life that loves something as much as Justin Jefferson loves playing football and it's so Apparent and it's so entertaining to watch and breathtaking to watch sometimes. It's like seeing LeBron James do a warm up dunk. I went to a randomly Miami Heat versus Dallas Mavericks game a couple years ago.

And after watching Luka Doncic warm up, I would not have traded him. Luka Doncic did like trick shots and crazy stuff from all over. It was crazy to watch. It was so much fun. That's kind of what Justin Jefferson in these camp practices is. But I think last year was a little different for Justin Jefferson in training camp as far as hunkering down and taking it seriously. Not that he didn't ever like take a day off or compete or any of that stuff. Even when he was negotiating his contract, he was going hard all the time in training camp. I didn't feel like he ever took that veteran day or that hold in type of thing in 2023. He was smoking fools in that training camp as well. But where it changed for me last year was him understanding that

Kirk Cousins wasn't there anymore. And you could, as a wide receiver, look at training camp as, Hey, I'm just going to run the routes. I'm supposed to run. I'm going to do my job. And the quarterback's got to do his job. And that's life, right? Just like with Kirk Cousins, Kirk is in charge of the offense. That's the quarterback job. I'll do what I'm going to do. You're going to do what you're going to do. But I felt like last year, Justin Jefferson put the whole franchise on his shoulders in that training camp in a way that I hadn't really seen from him before. I think took a responsibility for the results with Sam Darnold that before it was do my job, get the football from Kirk, do what Kirk needs me to do. And there wasn't as much of a leadership element to it. It was more of leading by being the best player

leading by not having a hissy fit. If you don't get the football for two games leading by just whooping everybody, which is a good way to lead. And there's nothing wrong with that. And if Jefferson had just said last year, Hey, look, you know, throw me the football and everything will be fine and whatever. Uh, he still would have been really good. But I think that what came along with that big contract for some players, and I asked a few people with the Vikings about this kind of, you know, behind the scenes just about like, am I, am I seeing this right? That some players can take the big contract and look at it as, all right, well, I've made it and nobody can tell me nothing now because I got the guaranteed money and I'm just gonna do whatever I want and some players are still very good when doing that but it's a different attitude where is justin jefferson has taken the contract. And decided this means more this means more to me this franchise is wins and losses.

I know the people like to debate over quarterback wins for je. It's wide receiver wins. It's his own wins. It's When they win it's on him when they lose it's on him and how well they perform in a mini camp is on him now If he didn't show up to OTAs who would have cared like anybody? I mean who would have told them? Oh, man, you're really letting us down like nobody it's Justin Jefferson But he made the effort to show up. And he said it was important to him because he felt like he had to show the rest of the team that he's doing every bit as much as them and that he's the guy that they can look to.

He's the one that has to say something now, uh, to the other players. Like when things aren't going well, or when he notices that somebody else needs a pick me up or whatever it might be, when a message needs to be sent, it's going to be sent by him now. And he called himself shy previously and said, I'm not really that big of a talker, but I've had to make myself that because that's my role now on this team. And that transformation becomes extremely relevant. And this is why I think the

2024 season it was very entertaining and it did not ultimately result in playoffs But the ripple effects of that season going forward for JJ McCarthy it I mean it's I Think it's really important what happened in 2024 with those ripple effects. Guys, if you watch the show all the time, you know that I'm a hat guy, but if you're wearing hats to cover up for your hair loss,

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Him dot com slash purple insider. Results vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride prescription products require an online consultation with a health care provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See the website for full details and important safety information of Kevin O'Connell learning how to train a quarterback who had never played in his offense before and had never had success before and communicating with a different quarterback that wasn't Kirk Cousins, that was still ascending as a player and still learning Sam Darnold.

He hadn't played in the entire 2023 season was still ascending as a player and showing everybody that he could do that. And also Justin Jefferson, if Kirk C Kirk cousins is still there, he's probably the same Justin Jefferson who's playing his role and doing what Kirk wants him to do and going from there. But what Sam Darnold's presence forced him to do, because Darnold was not a yo, this is my franchise now type of guy. Like, no, he wasn't like that.

He was more of, he was more of a kind of doing my job, keeping my head down, just being a good, you know, good teammate showing up prepared kind of guy. But he wasn't the biggest rah rah everybody follow me. I'm sending the message. Zame Darnold's a pretty quiet guy overall. And I think that Jefferson picked up some of that and said, put it on me instead and learn through that experience of last year that now he can carry over to JJ

McCarthy and helping a new quarterback, somewhat an experienced, uh, in McCarthy's case, very inexperienced, but with a training camp under his belt and training camp under his belt and help him, uh, to improve, to learn and to build chemistry and also pull the whole entire team along with him. So how those two build their chemistry, JJ McCarthy and Justin Jefferson, I think will be the biggest determining factor of the Minnesota Vikings 2025 season. There's a lot of other stuff that we're interested in, including do they run the football better? Do they block for McCarthy better? Do they blitz less play better coverage?

Do they blitz the same and set the sack record? I mean all those things that we could talk about. How's the punting competition? Is the kicker going to hit hit clutch kicks all that stuff matters It takes everybody to win a bunch of games But if there's one thing that you would rank as the top factor of how many games the Minnesota Vikings win in 2025 it is the chemistry between JJ McCarthy and Justin Jefferson and I'll throw a couple crazy stats at you

and Justin Jefferson. And I'll throw a couple crazy stats at you. Number one, when any quarterback has thrown the ball in the direction of JJ or Justin Jefferson over his career, that quarterback, whether it was Mullins, the time that Josh Dobbs got him killed Kirk, Darnold, whoever it was, the quarterback rating of that quarterback throwing the ball to Justin Jefferson was 111.1. If you have 111.1 quarterback rating, you will be in the MVP race. So anyone directing the football toward Justin Jefferson plays like an MVP, but JJ McCarthy's

got to trust them. He's got to believe in him. He's got to find him. He's got to understand when you could throw it into double coverage to Jefferson. When you can't throw it into Jefferson for double coverage, because one of the things through the year, statistically that does pop up is that quarterback rating would be even higher if. Jefferson, uh, didn't have so many interceptions while, uh, quarterbacks

were trying to throw his way. And of course that's Nick Mullins trying to throw, uh, didn't have so many interceptions while, uh, quarterbacks were trying to throw his way. And of course that's Nick Mullins trying to throw, uh, behind him and getting picked off. And you know, there were times where Kirk or Darnold would put it up for Jefferson and get picked off, but you have to be willing to do that. If you're JJ McCarthy and this six weeks or so in training camp or how, however many weeks training camp is five or six weeks is going to be the most vital time for McCarthy figuring that out. When can he throw into tight coverage? When can he try to force the ball into a tight window?

When can he throw up a 50-50 ball to Justin Jefferson? And when is it a little bit too much? Because as much as Jefferson says, hey, I'll go get it no matter what that's mostly true, but it's not a hundred percent true. And here's the other stat that I found interesting that over Jefferson's career, the larger sample, he is slightly over 50% in contested catches, which you'll hear coaches call 50, 50 balls. They're not, they're not actually 50 50. When you look at the entire league's performance, uh, by the PFF stack contested catches, but just to Jefferson makes them 50 50, which truly makes him unique. So how does JJ McCarthy not only build chemistry with Jefferson and there's another element to

that too, which I think McCarthy mentioned, and I've heard other people, corners and Kevin O'Connell bring up as well, that Jefferson is a little unusual as easy as it is to throw the ball to him open. And it's not a one-man operation. Like O'Connell's drawing up plays that are set up to get Jefferson open and beat the double coverage and all that sort of stuff, but he is a little bit different of a route runner than any other wide receiver that JJ McCarthy will have ever played with before.

So his long strides cause so many problems for defensive backs. If you watch it closely and it can be unfortunate sometimes that, uh, the television cameras will zoom so much into a quarterback that you don't see some of the details of a wide receiver, but he has such long strides that it gets corners back on their heels and also can make it pretty difficult for them to identify where he's going. It can also for the quarterback be different as far as leading him, throwing him in front of him and figuring out when he's coming out of those breaks. And you have to see it in, in camp.

You have to see it over and over and over again. So what we saw last year was Sam Darnold started off kind of slow in training camp. I remember, I think he had a bad first padded practice. And of course, you know, that response was, Oh, you know, typical at Sam Darnold's could be pretty tough if he has to start because he's bad. And then by the third camp practice, he was figuring it out. But the, uh, when the padded practices started, he did not have this chemistry with Jefferson. I remember a little

bit of frustration on a couple of slant routes that Darnold threw behind him or didn't time out right, had picked off. And as they went throughout that camp, it grew and grew and it improved. And I felt that in Cleveland, they had kind of a tough challenge in the Cleveland defense, the first day of Cleveland practices last year was pretty rough for the offense and the second day was much better where Darnold hit a bomb to Jefferson, uh, they had some great red zone reps with Jefferson and it felt And the second day was much better where Donald hit a bomb to Jefferson. Uh, they had some great red zone reps with Jefferson and it felt like something clicked there. So it was that late in training camp when Donald and Jefferson truly clicked.

So when will it be for JJ McCarthy or will we get to the end of training camp and wonder like, are those two good? Are those two on the same page? I think Justin Jefferson, if we were ranking all the people in training camp and how important they are to this next six to eight weeks, of course, JJ McCarthy is a number one adjusted Jefferson, I think would be number two on that list. I'm very, very interested to see him on a daily basis. So, uh, stars, do you guys want to talk about some stars?

Like who's, who's got your interest this year in training camp? Cause you know, in preseason, it's not going to happen. Uh, there's not going to be a lot of that. Maybe Jefferson plays a single series or two series to try to get McCarthy more acclimated. But I'd be pretty surprised if Jefferson ever comes off that sideline in preseason. He's just way too important. They can't have what happened a couple of years ago with Irv Smith getting hurt in the preseason. Then he was lost for the, for the year because Mike Zimmer decided he needed to see one more

rep from Irv Smith and the starting offense in the fourth preseason game. That was pretty crazy actually. Now that we think about how little Kevin O'Connell uses them, but maybe, maybe just to get JJ McCarthy acclimated, maybe we'll see McCarthy play a little bit more than we have seen from Sam Darnold or Kirk Cousins, but I'm, I'm guessing it's not going to be a lot. So it will be those camp practices where this entire foundation of him and the offense is formed and that will include Addison, Naylor, Hockinson.

He's going to have to build those chemistry reps with all of those guys. But I think the second most in need of chemistry is probably TJ Hawkinson because last year we saw that there was no training camp between Sam Darnold and TJ Hawkinson. And I don't know that they ever actually got onto the same page. And when I talk about who you, who you want to hear about, this is stars night. This is like stars. Let's talk stars. I know you guys want Oscar Chapman and you want the punting competition. What stars are you most interested in training camp? That is the impetus of this show.

It's like, Hey, we're going to talk about tight end three all summer long. I promise. And the, the battles that are going on, uh, in the backend of the roster. And we're going to talk about JJ McCarthy, but I also don't want to forget to talk about the other stars that have our interest. And I'll just give you a couple of more that I'm going to have my eyes on.

And I wouldn't count, I mean, I know you guys want to talk about Dallas Turner. I wouldn't count Dallas Turner in this. Like this is what, this is actually my whole point of the show tonight is that when I say who do we want to talk about with stars showing up in the comments is Rondale Moore, Oscar Chapman and Dallas Turner stars, the, the, the play that not Josh Oliver, the stars of this team, the guys that are going to drive their success. What

do you want to talk about them with training camp? Like the next, the next person is going to throw me a Chaz Chambliss or whatever. And it's like, that's what I'm saying. Like that is my whole point of the show is what about the stars? Okay. How about this? We'll start with, we'll start with Stephanie. There you go. How about Stephanie hoping the interior are all stars.

There we go. There's a good place to begin because Ryan Kelly is a four-time pro bowler and will fries is one of the highest paid guards in the entire NFL. So those are the stars of the Minnesota Vikings. And let's talk about both of their outlooks for Ryan Kelly. I think it's going to be a little bit difficult to analyze Ryan Kelly from the sideline because of a lot of the most important parts of Ryan Kelly. And now you guys, now you guys are getting it. So I appreciate that.

Now we're, now we're rolling in the comments. So this is good. Um, but with Ryan Kelly, how do we really identify from watching on the sideline at practice every day, whether he and JJ McCarthy are getting on the same page? I think it's going to be subtle. It's going to be, Hey, like, is he getting blitzed all the time and is he under pressure all the time? And are they asking Brian Flores to take it back a notch?

Or are we talking about looking like they're having the best time that we've ever seen against Brian Flores defense? Because the last two years there was some serious frustration from Kirk Cousins in 2023. I mean, you know how Kirk does that when you know that he's mad, but he doesn't really want to admit that he's mad and kind of does that, you know, does that does that smile thing like, you know, I'm well, and then he says something sort of passive aggressive. Well, he did that in 2023 about Flores is defense because I think that he felt like they were having trouble making progress with the offense because Flores was sending so

much stuff at them. And Darnold didn't give us any hints, but there were a few days of practice where even, you know, Kevin O'Connell said, Oh yeah, Flores is, uh, not backing off out there, but you know, this year in the NFL, the copycat league, I am certain has noticed the success of what Brian Flores has been doing over the last couple of years with the Minnesota Vikings. And I saw more florist like stuff last season against the Vikings than we had seen in 2023 or that I had seen previously at 22 or before that a lot of the simulated pressures, a lot of five man rushes, a lot of this guy's coming from this place and this guy's dropping back a lot of confusion upfront.

And it really got to the Vikings at different times during last season. The Arizona game is the one that stands out the most for me, where Jonathan Gannon did a lot of similar kind of things as Brian Flores, not exact same schemes, but same ideas of, Oh, you don't see this guy coming on a blitz and he's there. Uh, also, they are running blitzes now where it's not the linebackers job to get the quarterback. It's linebackers job to hit the side of the offensive lineman to create space for somebody else who's coming on a stunt or a twist. So if on a daily basis, it looks like they're picking those up and giving

JJ McCarthy time to throw that I think we'll know that Ryan Kelly is having a serious effect on this offensive line. And we'll start to see a confidence with JJ McCarthy in working with him that, you know, maybe we haven't seen as much in previous quarterbacks under Garrett Bradbury, because this is to me a different level of a center than has been here since really Matt Burke, Jeff Christie, like those kinds of level of guys. The first year of Pat Elfline was very, very good, but he wasn't 32 and with four Pro Bowls under his belt

like Ryan Kelly. So it will be a little more subtle and we'll have to judge a lot of sort of body language, how they're picking up the pressures, things like that for Kelly. And then when it comes to fries, there's two things that I'm going to be watching for, for Will fries. Number one is what's his health like because he did not participate in OTAs.

He did not participate in mini camp. And Kevin O'Connell said that he was on track to be in good shape. But I mean, we just don't know a compound fracture, I believe was his injury. That sounds really nasty. That sounds like a very difficult injury to recover from. And the fact that it happened early in the season and he wasn't able to even get on the field for many camper OTAs, not the greatest sign in the world. I mean, think about Darasaw tore his ACL later and was actually participating in the individual drills.

So his health is where it begins. And there was some rumor, some discussion. I don't want to share something that wasn't confirmed by anybody, but I think there was a report about Seattle wanting to sign fries and wanting to have him do a, uh, what is it? What is it when they, when they look over first, a physical, yeah, there you go. Wanting to have a physical first before they signed him. And I think that's how in part he ended up with Minnesota. There was a report that either insinuated that or said that about fries and his health.

So that's a number one. Is he out there day one? Is he good to go? Is he participating in every practice? a report that either insinuated that or said that about fries and his health. So that's a number one. Is he out there day one? Is he good to go? Is he participating in every practice or are there some health issues as he recovers from that injury? And then when he is out there, then we're going to be watching for a physical presence that they just have not had at that position.

I mean, pushing people around because in every camp that I have covered on the interior, it has been getting pushed around by some Vikings defensive lines that were really good and some were less good, but it's never been the offensive line winning that battle. And in 23 against the Titans in those practices, those joint practices, the interior of the offensive line walked off with its tail between its legs. I mean, they got absolutely dominated in those practices. And that was when we sort of knew like, yeah,

I don't know how well this is really going to work. But this year in the joint practices against a very good Patriots defense and a good Patriots defensive line, you wanna see something different. And I'll throw a Donovan Jackson into this as maybe potential stars, potential stars. He's going to be another one.

That's a little challenging to evaluate because you have to be patient. You can't just watch two padded practices and he gets smoked by Jonathan Allen. You go like, ah, well, I don't know folks. I'm smelling a bust. Like that's really hard to evaluate that because guys get better guys improve. Um, but you know, we'll get a good look at the raw talent. The one-on-ones are always something to watch because you're talking about the biggest,

strongest, uh, dudes just battling it out in a wrestling match. Um, one-on-one. So how does he perform and handle himself against some really good players in those situations? But for the other two, it will be, I think, a little more noticeable than with Donovan Jackson, where I don't want to overreact to stuff. If there's a bad rep, it might be a learning rep for him. And we can't declare, Oh man, well, he got beat twice today. It's over.

He's going to be a mess when the season gets here because he's playing against some really, really awesome players. Uh, the black L Bundy says, uh, Jonathan Allen and Javon Hargrave to throw it out there. The new guys. Yeah. Uh, with Jonathan Allen and Javon Hargrave, there's two things that I think are big storylines in training camp. And like I said, now we're rolling. Like now you got the players. I'm talking about here. There's two big storylines in training camp. And like I said, now we're rolling. Like now you got the players I'm talking about here. There's two big storylines in training camp. Well, number one, of course is their health because they're both coming off injuries. Alan should

have had a full off season. He actually played in the playoffs. We'll see where Hargrave is at, but he got injured early in the season. So my expectation is those guys are good to go completely practicing, uh, in mini camp as well. And there's the part about their usage. Where are they going to line up? What are they in this system? Because this is a three, four based system. And I was thinking about how this is kind of reminiscent of some of the old school three, four that has not existed in a really long time in the NFL. It's kind of sent me back a little bit to the Pittsburgh Steelers, the New Orleans Saints, you know, teams like that with how you could envision them playing more of base personnel

than we ever see as the NFL mostly has turned over to nickel and they don't have four linebackers on the field anymore but this team might and in those three four systems they have the three four defensive end which is kind of a unique position in itself and Pittsburgh has always been famous for having these guys where you're not playing in a gap in the a gap, for example, or directly over the guard. If you're the defensive tackle, which I'm pretty sure Hargrave and Alan have always played in four, three systems where that's what they're doing. They're just lining up directly over the guard. Maybe they go outside. Maybe they go inside. I could check their lineup alignments for their careers, but I don't think that they've played a lot over

the tackle, which would be kind of B gap and over the tackle, um, getting very football here, but I think you can envision what I mean where you're going to have the outside linebackers playing in that wide nine type of position where you're hanging outside of the tackle. And then you've got the defensive ends that are kind of over the tackle or maybe just shaded inside That adds a whole new barrel of problems for an offensive line But if it's a little different for these guys How do they adjust or are they going to line up in more traditional spots?

How they look against the run is a major question for the season that we can't answer in training camp I mean, there's just no way there's no way to watch. Cause the run reps are basically a second and a half of full speed. And then, all right, everybody stopped. You want to make sure that you get the run detail down, right? Who's supposed to be blocked. And then you just don't, you don't want to get anybody hurt on those run plays. That gets a little physical, but only for about two seconds. So we're not going to really be able to tell like, oh man,

Hargrave got manhandled there. Like, I don't know, maybe seeing some physicality from Will fries that might stand out a little bit. And maybe we get some pushing and shoving, but aside from that, I guess what I'm looking at is just where they're lined up. And are they on the field at the same time a lot? Like is there base set up to have those guys on each side of Harrison Phillips, or are they playing in more of four, three type of looks where they have two defensive tackles and the outside linebackers are just on the edge like traditional defensive ends and are they

rotating rather than playing an actual three, four because here's me having grown up in the nineties when there was lots of three, four defenses and being like, okay, this will be like Marty Schottenheimer's Kansas City Chiefs with Neil Smith and Derek Thomas or something, right? It might not be. So how does that look? And do both guys look a little bit of their age or do they look spry? When the pads come on, we're going to start figuring that out. Uh, Alex brings up, uh, Harrison Smith and says, I need to know if, uh, this hit man 22 last season, so I could properly take it in, I think anywhere from here, Alex, you should just properly take it in.

Yeah. Because this could very well be the last one. It might not be, but I think even last year, properly taking it in, I was saying to Harrison that like, I kind of, I thought it was over after last year and I just said something to him as we were walking out in Glendale after the Vikings lost to the Rams. And then when he came back, I was like, okay, well, I guess not. You know, I guess that isn't it. But it has been an honor to watch his, the vast majority of his career as one of the

best players in the entire NFL over the last decade plus. And in my opinion, a deserving hall of fame career, whether he gets there or not is a different story from deserving. Cause I think that he is from having seen it up close. My concern is that you have to see it up close to really understand. And there's only one hall of fame voter in town. We can't bring everybody in and show them 10 years of Harrison Smith playing, but I think you should properly take it in.

I also think that there is a legitimate Harrison Smith storyline for this year. Last year in training camp, I mean, he could have skipped camp and just shown up week one and he knew exactly what Cam Bynum was gonna do. Cam Bynum knew exactly what he was gonna do and those guys worked so well off of each other. Harrison Smith, Cam Bynum, like they were perfectly in sync. But now we don't really know how that's going to work with Harrison Smith and is it Theo

Jackson? Is it more of Josh Mattel is playing the actual safety spot as opposed to playing up at the box all the time. I kind of like the idea more of Theo Jackson just taking cam by in them spot. But since there is more talent that they can put into the front seven, specifically Dallas Turner and working him in, does that, that means you have to either take somebody like Ivan pace off of the field or Josh Mattel is who I don't think that they're taking off the field very often.

So where are you going to put them? Or you could take Theo Jackson off the field unless it's third down and you're using, you know, six or seven defensive backs, depending on the situation. So who plays next to Harrison Smith? Do they build that same sort of connection that we've seen in the past from Anthony Harris, Anderson Dayhoe, and most recently can't bind them. If they're able to do that, uh, with Theo Jackson, it just adds another layer to this defense, if they're able to be more versatile and move Josh Mattel is back to that traditional free safety type of spot, then I mean, that gives a different

layer too, because then he can come into the box and he can blitz from depth and all sorts of different stuff. So that is Harrison Smith will be watching more than just for a nostalgia factor, but also for like, Hey, like, are you going to do it again? Are you going to be able to build something special with somebody else again at that safety position? Uh, Kevin McDermott's pinky. Uh, that's not right.

That's not, you know what I know that, um, so Maggie Robinson is going to be on in about 20 minutes or so. That's another story. Maggie, write down a note. I know she's a watcher behind the scenes. Kevin McDermott's Pinky and I'll explain. Just write that down. That's a story.

So, uh, Andrew, I had a lot of, by the way, loved all of the emails that I got suggesting stories to tell Maggie and things like that. People who enjoyed that last week, if you missed it, that was a fun time of Maggie learning some Minnesota Vikings lore, including Randy Moss, mooning and, and things like that. Uh, but Kevin McDermott's pinky says, Andrew van ginkle, curious of his role changes at all. And if he moves around more, me too, me too.

Um, because of the Dallas Turner factor, they want Dallas Turner on the field. It makes the most sense to get the most talent on the field and not just have Dallas Turner be a rotational player when Andrew van ginkle or Jonathan Grinard needs a rest, they could do some of that and they need to do some of that after playing them so many snaps last year, but having all three of them on the field at the same time is for the best. And I looked up, I had thought in my mind like, man, I've seen Andrew van ginkle play a ton as an inside linebacker.

I know I have, and this is why we have stats and data because I went back last year and looked at their numbers of how often he actually lined up on the inside. And it was only 89 times out of, you know, whatever, 800 something snaps for last year, which is, you know, one out of every 10 snaps. So it's some, but I'm sure that every time it happened, I noticed. So then in my brain, I thought, oh, he does that all the time, but he only did it 89 times through last year. Could that number go up? Could we see Andrew van ginkle essentially bump Ivan pace off the field

sometimes, or could it be a really wild personnel package where you have Jonathan Grinard, Dallas Turner playing on the edge, Andrew van Ginkgel and Blake Cashman, and then Josh Mattelis moves back to the regular safety position, something like that. I think you can mix and match and that's what they're really going to do. I would, I would expect is they're going to be mixing and matching with different packages and different alignments with Andrew van ginkle all the time, because last year he played on one side a little bit more than the other, if I'm not mistaken, it was left side more than the other, but actually it was on the right

side more than I had remembered when I looked at that data. So he's always been a guy who can do pretty much anything. And I I'm thinking about like opposing teams or remember with Anthony Barr I think a lot of people when you say Anthony Barr they go contract I know that second contract wasn't the best but when Anthony Barr was at his best and he was playing inside linebacker he was kind of a menace and he's got a similar size to Andrew van Ginkle where he could rush up the middle. He was a very successful blitzer.

And I remember writing an article about that and kind of kicking off a little bit of that, of that discussion of should he be blitzing more with Mike Zimmer, with the double a gap stuff, and then he could drop back and was very good at matching up with running backs in space. And I think for a little while there, Anthony Barr was a pretty serious weapon for the defense. And could Van Ginkle do shades of that occasionally? You don't want to after a second team all pro season,

I mean you don't want to start saying, Oh, Andrew Van Ginkle, Hey, go play something else, but shades touches of this or that. And maybe his sack number goes down from, what was it? 11 last year. Maybe it goes down from 11 to six and a half, but he's actually more valuable or just as valuable as he was last year. I could definitely see that. Uh, let's see.

Thank you so much for the super chat. Funny boy, Roddy. Appreciate that. Uh, says Aaron Jones and Jordan Mason are dynamic running back duo in the NFL this upcoming season with our new O line. Yeah, I agree. Aaron Jones, another great name to talk about for training camp running backs are a little bit more tricky though. Um, let me just finish. I'm sorry. Let me just finish the one point about Van Ginkle and tie it to training camp is that we're going to be looking for that. That was

the whole point about that usage is looking for hints is, is're going to be looking for that. That was the whole point about that usage is looking for hints is, is it going to be Turner playing more linebacker if they're on the field at the same time, or does Turner get the edge and Van Ginkle moves back inside? That's what we're going to going to be looking for there. Um, but with Aaron Jones and Jordan Mason, can we really get an idea of what that rotation is going to be like in training camp? I don't know that we're going to, because if I'm the Vikings, I'm doing the same thing that they did last year in camp, which was pretty much not use Aaron Jones.

He was out there enough to learn and he was doing all the walkthroughs as RB one that they do in the morning. So that's kind of how camp works. They do walkthrough in the morning. And then we go out there at the end of walkthrough and they come off the field. We do interviews and they do press conferences and then they go back for practice. And Aaron Jones is doing all the walkthrough stuff. He was not taking all the practice reps because that would be a bad idea to have

a guy of his age and mileage, especially coming off last year out there doing all the reps. So I think we're going to see a ton of Jordan Mason and what we might be able to figure out with Jordan Mason, who I will slide into the star category. Uh, what I think we're going to be looking at is just like, what kind of schematics are they using there? Is it look like it's more of the outside zone type of stuff that he was so successful with San Francisco and does he look like the type of running back?

And I know there's a good sample size of him averaging five yards of carry, but does he look like the type of running back that's going to be a duo where they not only trust him, but think he's an impact player, or is it more going to be, Hey, this is the Aaron Jones show and you're here to help and you're there to be there if Aaron Jones gets hurt. But that's really what it is. And one thing that you can tell in training camp is past protection. You could definitely tell past protection, uh, in training camp.

And Jordan Mason just didn't have to do a lot of it last year. I mean, Kevin O'Connell mentioned thinking that he is capable and he's certainly big enough, but he didn't have a ton of past protection reps for the 49ers. And that's something that's going to make a huge difference for how much he can play. Uh, and we saw that with Ty Chandler, where Chandler was so poor in past protection that he became kind of unplayable. And I doubt that's going to be the case for Mason, that it's going to be that poor, but can it be actually a difference maker with his size and strength? So I'll really be looking much more at Mason and we'll probably see a ton of

reps for Mason because Aaron Jones is going to stay on ice over on the sideline a lot of the time. Uh, son of a beavers, Christian Derrissa, how is the injury coming along and Jordan Mason, who we just talked about, but he's coming back right from an injury as well. I mean, it's half the roster, but such as life and football. Yeah. With Derrissa, that's going to be the big question is what, what does he do on day one? Like, is he going to be out there ready to roll day one, I would be surprised if that's the case. But when, when is day one for Christian Derrissa doing 11 on 11th, that will tell us whether he's going to be able to start the season or not.

If he begins where he's just doing warmup stuff and then a couple of weeks in he's full go, then there's a good chance that he could play right away. If it's a longer process for Derraw and we're getting toward the end of training camp, but he still hasn't done anything yet. Then it might be, might be a few weeks into the season before we can really see him. And I'm trying to think who that was that we saw a couple of years ago with the ACL Mike Hughes. It was Mike Hughes. Uh, this must've been 2019, I think from 18 to 19, where Hughes had had that pretty bad

ACL tear and he wasn't able to play until I believe maybe the fourth week of the season or the fifth week of the season. And he was doing stuff during training camp, but he wasn't back to a hundred percent yet. So what's the timeline going to look like? Is it going to look like right away, hey, good to go. He's on the field or is it going to look like, ah, it might be just in school season for the first couple of weeks of the year. That is a massive storyline for this training camp. I agree. See now we're, now we're really rolling on stars. This team's got a lot of stars to talk about. That's why I wanted to

get into it, man. We'll do Mr. Mankato soon enough. Uh, Joshua says, uh, all the people saying JJ is going to be bad because it's his first year as the starter. We're saying that Caleb Williams is going to be amazing even though he never played a snap. Well, you know, that always sounds to me, Josh, when you frame it that way, like you've been spending a little too much time on social media and would not suggest because most of social media conversations, let me just, let me just say this bluntly. Most of the discussions on social media by fans are basically the caliber that

you would get on the playground from six year olds. And maybe they take a stat and they throw it out there and they say, see, this guy, look at him. He stinks. One of the funniest ones to me from a couple of years ago was when, uh, there was a big, there's a bunch of people arguing about whether John Elway was actually good. You're like, yeah, John Elway, great discussion. What you know, like one of the five or six greatest quarterbacks of all time. Yeah.

He probably stunk guys because a lot of people are out there trying to get attention who have nothing else to do but bother you all day. So I don't know. Spending your time here for this discussion is probably a lot more useful than it is worrying about what Bears fans are saying about JJ McCarthy or what Vikings fans are saying about Caleb Williams because we know that in that discussion, the truth is going to be determined really a lot this year, but the truth is definitely in the middle with both guys. Like yeah, you should be concerned that JJ McCarthy hasn't played any football yet because

until he does, we don't really know. But there are a lot of signs that we saw from last year and there's certainly a signal in the decision that they made to stick with him that tells us what the Vikings thought of JJ McCarthy last year. And they're the ones that know better than any of us. I've seen a lot of his practices, but I'm not in meetings with him. Like Kevin O'Connell and Josh McCown are the people who are involved in making that decision to stick with him.

So there's a lot of noise in that decision to let Sam Darnold go after he had such a great season last year and they could have found ways to sign a Ryan Kelly, a Will Fries, maybe not everybody, but they could have signed a couple people and run back a 14 win team with Sam Darnold if they wanted to. Instead they believed in McCarthy, but anybody who says he hasn't played yet factually correct. He has not. And with Caleb Williams, if you say, yeah, I'm pretty concerned about the fact that he got sacked 68 times, didn't look like he had the resilience necessary to be a superstar

quarterback and I'm not sure he could see the field. Like that's fair. But if someone else said, uh, they had a really bad system for him last year. Their expectations for him were way too high for a rookie quarterback. And we've seen a lot of rookies struggle and then turn into great quarterbacks. Well, those people would be correct too. And the reality is, I mean,

if we're putting dollars on all of it, you'd probably say that some of that stuff shows up and some of it doesn't throughout the next season. And that's why we watch the games. But if you go online, you can listen to toddlers yell at each other and rank quarterbacks all day, which Maggie and I, and I could have talked about in a little bit and maybe prepare yourself for a quarterback ranking, uh, rant. So, uh, let's see, son of a beavers can Byron Murphy repeat what he did last year.

So in terms of interceptions, that'd be hard to do because six is a lot. And when you think back on them, there's probably three at least that someone just threw right to him. Uh, the interception that he had against Kirk and Atlanta, it was a nice play to catch it one handed, but also, I mean, that was a softball that he was wide open and he caught it. I mean, that was nowhere close. There was one against the Rams that Matthew Stafford just kind of tossed up and it was like catching a punt for Byron Murphy. What I think about him goes beyond as far as like why he's worth it and why he's important

goes a lot beyond just the interceptions. So when we're talking about like relating this to training camp, I think with Byron Murphy, there's two big storylines. I mean, number one is just how do things work with him in this? I don't want to call it a new leadership role because he was a big signing two years ago, but now when you get the big contract and they've talked about, she was like the guy and all those sorts of things in the secondary. Well, he's got to be the guy there.

It's not other veterans like Stefan Gilmore, Shaq Griffin. It's up to him to take on that leadership role in the secondary. The other thing I want to see is, are we going to get a little more Byron Murphy nickel? Because that was implied by Kevin O'Connell during mini camp and Byron Murphy has been a really good nickel in his career and he's mixed in match, but he hasn't played that as much as we thought he was going to when he first signed. So if Isaiah Rogers and McKay Blackman, if they end up, um, being really good, then we could see more of Byron Murphy in the nickel.

And then that probably does push Josh Mattel is back out to free safety because they want to be doing that, uh, playing in that nickel. So he's not playing a big nickel position, which I think would be technically the right way to frame Josh Mattel is. So are we looking at a little more dynamics all over the field on defense, including with Byron Murphy. But as far as the down to down play to play, I think that we already know how good he is. He's not perfect.

He's not going to give up a zero quarterback rating into his coverage. But he's very good at understanding offenses, understanding tendencies and changing coverages as part of their communication. Like he's, he's really good in a lot of ways that are sustainable from year to year. Seldom seen says Alan and Hargrave need to be talked about more that Pat pass rush could look completely different with their talent in the middle.

Yeah. So this happens all the time and I think it's happening actually with TJ Hockinson as well. I saw ESPN's executive rankings had Hockinson, I think is the ninth best tight end in the NFL. And I'm sure going into last year, he was higher than that. When you get hurt in the NFL and you miss a big chunk of your season, it's like you don't exist going into the next year unless you're a quarterback. That's just kind of how it goes. If you got hurt and you're not in the front of mind and people can't look at exactly what you did last season, you're just, who knows?

I guess he'll come back. Like it just puts guys out of the discussion, which is not really fair because, you know, they come back. But with Hargrave and Alan, it feels like that has happened a little bit that if you signed both of those guys one year ago, and I know you can't do this, you can't go back in time, but if you signed them one year ago, coming off of their 2023 seasons, everybody would have lost their minds about the Vikings signing these freakish defensive tackles just one year ago, but they didn't play that much last season and it does matter

and health matters and mileage matters and all that stuff. I'm not saying that it doesn't when those signings get evaluated and when they get talked about and hyped up or criticized. I know I've seen some people say they overpaid for Jonathan Allen and And my point is right, because they have the cap space to do it. Of course they did. They should, you should overpay for players when you're in this situation. Good work. Um, but it's, you know, there's risk that comes along with some of that.

Some of the regression that we've seen from him. But if they did that one year ago, when those guys were going into 2024, then they would have been the biggest talked about signings and they would have talked about how much, uh, you know, the Vikings had built this freakish defensive line and all that sort of thing. So, uh, you know, I just, I tend to agree with you that it has not been discussed a whole lot, and I think as far as a national perspective goes, there will be more of all of the Vikings things. I mean, you start the first two games on Island games, Monday night

football, Sunday night football. Yeah. I mean, you're going to get a lot of Viking discussion in the national space. Um, but going into this, I mean, it's all about JJ McCarthy, right? There's no, like if you're doing your team previews as a national talk show or something, you're just not going to get a whole lot of people saying more about those two than just, oh yeah, they also signed Jonathan Allen and Jayvon Hargrave, but those guys could have the biggest impact on the defense. A real like trickle down to where they don't have to blitz as much anymore and where they can create four man rushes.

I mean, this could be enormous if it works out in the best case scenario. So I do agree with you there. Uh, the black L Bundy says if, uh, Jordan Addison is going to miss a step when he comes back from his suspension, yeah, that's something we're going to have to find out, uh, in the coming weeks of what ends up happening with the law element of that. And if it comes along with the suspension, because if he's forgive any legal terms that I use disclaimer, not a lawyer, uh, exonerated, and there's nothing

that comes of it, not guilty, then we'll just move on. I would imagine they could still slap something on him for like good of the game shields, you know, protect the shield type of suspension. They've done stuff like that before, but I'd be kind of surprised if that was anything, or it could end up being guilty in three games suspension. And we find that out immediately,

or we find it out in the middle of the season. Like, it's just really hard to pin down when you go through history. There's only one recent example of a DUI that turned into a three game suspension that it was very quickly after the ruling so I'm expecting that but I'm not sure so but if he gets suspended. In the middle of camp and they announced a suspension, he could still practice. I think now I'm going to have to look up the rules. I think he could still practice. Yeah, I think he can because because Michael Floyd practiced during training camp and then he couldn't practice during the season when he was suspended for four games.

So yeah, he'll still be able to practice in training camp. And I imagine he'll be the same Jordan Addison. I will be looking for another step from Jordan Addison. Like last year, I thought he got stronger. I thought his route details got better, but is there a, I got a more development to that? Because when you think about age now in the NFL, with all of those seasons that happened, the extra college seasons due to COVID. I mean, you got guys coming out who are 23, 24 years old. What's Jordan Addison's he 23 now?

Like he is still in the development phase of his career. Uh, Sean says, uh, curious how the health of our DT, uh, run defense, maybe pace and company can feast on the devastation of Hargree. I like this. I should read this in NFL films. Well, I've been pace feast on the devastation of Hargra. I need Manny for that, but that's, uh, I like that. I like the word feast. Uh, biggest question is how our trenches match up with the big boys, Detroit, Philly, the Rams in Tampa Bay. Yeah, that's a, that is definitely for a, uh,

gotta, gotta figure that out during the season. Yeah, that's a, that is definitely for a, uh, gotta, gotta figure that out during the season. Um, probably won't be able to get a good sense of that in training camp, which is kind of the focus here for me, but yeah, I think we'll walk out of training camp understanding how good or not that it could be. Like, is it working? Is it not working? Are those guys looking like monsters or are they looking their age? Zach says, who would you rather have Jefferson or chase to win a game tomorrow? Well, this is a little hard, Zach, because I covered Jefferson and have covered him since day one. Although Jamar chase his first game, he lit up the Vikings. So I did see that. I don't

see every single game of Jamar chase and probably Cincinnati Bengals reporters would say Jamar chase. The reason I would say Jefferson is the contested catches and the route details I think are a little bit to win one game, more of something that sustains from week to week. So I think of Jamar chase is a little more. And again, I'm not disrespecting Jamar chase. This is number one and two.

It's a little bit more of like, he has a game that's 225 yards and then like the next game. It's not like that where if you look at Jefferson, there are some times where he doesn't have big games and then Addison goes crazy or Hockinson goes crazy, but it's a a it's a little more sustainable from week to week is just being a great route runner and catching the ball when you get 50 50 chances to do it. I think Jefferson has better hands than Jamar Chase a better ability to if you want to go deep into the scouting language to high point the football if the quarterback throws it up to him, he has maybe the best high point catch ever against the Buffalo Bills considering that situation, the weather, everything else to go up and bring it down.

But I mean, you're talking about the two best receivers in the NFL. So, you know, I, uh, that's, that's a hard one. That's a hard one to say. I mean, chase is an absolute freak, absolute freak show with the ball in his hands. And as far as pure speed goes, I think Jamar chase is the wide receiver version. If Barry Sanders had played wide receiver, if Barry said like with his movement skill and his speed and his lightning quickness, if he had been a wide receiver, that that's what it would have looked like.

So I love watching that guy play football. Um, but just thinking in terms of. like. So I love watching that guy play football. But just thinking in terms of Chase's this big play explosive guy where Jefferson is 15 yards, 18 yards, 20 yards, over and over and over more of a banging drum of a wide receiver. But it's hard. That's a hard one. Oops. And a bunch of numbers. Stephon Gilmore still available. He could sign here. He could, yeah. They could bring him back if they have any issues. What I think they want to see with the

secondary is just how it looks first. I think they want to see how it looks first. And get a couple of weeks into training camp and then find out. Here's what I'm sure about with Stephon Gilmore. We are not going to see him in the month of July. And we probably going to see him in the month of July and we probably will not see him signed with an NFL team until I'm going to go. The over

under would be like August 12th for Stefan Gilmore. I mean, the guy showed up at the last minute last year was really good. He had a very good season. So, you know, if I'm him, I'm thinking that worked for me last year. Why not do the same exact thing if he wants to play again? And by that point, we will know so much more about how everything works with the secondaries black men showing up. Does Isaiah Rogers look like a rising star? Is there anybody who gets hurt? Cause last year on the first day at camp, you get somebody hurt.

So, uh, then that's how Stefan Gilmore ultimately ended up as a Minnesota Viking because, you know, Mackay Blackman ended up tearing his ACL. I would say that that's, you know, probably going to be something that we have a feeling for when we get to the middle of August, where we've seen maybe a preseason game and we've seen some training camp then then we will know about where they stand and we'll know if Stefan Gilmour is an option but as of right now I don't think that he is. Ray says a little bit away from the the stars here but I'll let it slide Ray. How do you see Blake Brando being used? I think they could use him a little bit as a sixth offensive lineman if they

want to, but he's going to be a swing swing guy. If they need somebody in the interior left guard, right guard, he's going to play. But I don't think you're going to see anything more than that. Just as him being a backup to Donovan Jackson. If Jackson is struggling, though, and we see Brandle get some first team reps, then you know that there's an issue. But aside from that, very good depth is the way I look at Blake Brando. Dusty says we're betting on our training staff for sure. Uh, but also that's part of why we're able to get these guys, uh, and why they don't

affect the comp pick formula that, uh, you guys love so much. I guess I should get a comp pick formula expert on some time, but to your point, I believe that that's correct. That quasi da Fomenta looks at players like J von Hargrave and Jonathan Allen and says, and they didn't get a great deal with Jonathan Allen. I mean, there's $20 million per year. It's not nothing, but J von Hargrave might be a great deal for 15. I think they look at guys like that, just like they did with Aaron Jones last year and go. The NFL probably is a little bit worried because of the recency bias of the injury,

but not all injuries are the same injury. How does this generally historically recover? Well, that's what the training staff should know with their data and have guys who've had that injury, have they come back strong? Have they been all right? And you might be able to get a better price on somebody that the injury historically is mostly fine when somebody comes back, but the NFL is a little bit worried to sign somebody who's been out recently. I think that that is a little bit of a hack for sure.

And there's another, we're starting to see enough of free agency to kind of get it with Quasidafel Mensah, like where he sees the edges. I think that when he first took over as the general manager, what a lot of people thought was he was gonna do all this crazy stuff. I just, oh my gosh, he's gonna analytics hack the entire NFL.

It's gonna go nuts and do wild stuff, right? That's not really wild. It's sort of common sense of finding little edges, which is one, I think Isaiah Rogers falls into the same category as a Blake Cashman, a Jonathan Grenard, like trying to catch a player on the upswing in free agency or getting a guy that everybody else has kind of written off a little bit because of age or injury and they have had this go wrong for them Dean Lowry went wrong for them and Marcus Davenport went wrong for them. So it's not perfect. It's not a perfect formula But first the fun Gilmore like think about Gilmore as a signing last year. He wasn't injured, but he was old as hell

But Gilmore old as hell playing maybe 75% of the old Stefan Gilmore, but a hundred percent of Stefan Gilmore is the MVP of the league. And if you look at like Jonathan Allen, 80% of Jonathan Allen at his peak is what a top 25 defensive tackle. Well, is that worth 20 million? If he's healthy and all that? Like, yeah, it is. If he could give 40 pressures, 50 pressures, like what's that worth playing 700 snaps? That's worth a lot. It's not what he was in his peak where he is one of the best in the NFL,

but even if he's 80% of that, it's still really good. And I think that's part of the theory. Seldom seen. Can Ivan Pace become a borderline pro bowler or is he a future free agent casualty? Nah, I, I think that what Ivan pace is, is a starting rotational player who is very, very good at knifing through the offensive line, uh, to make plays in the backfield on the run. Uh, I think he's hard to block for guys because he slams into them like a pinball. Uh, I think, uh, that he is hard to kind of identify because he's so small at

times for offensive lineman, like he gets an edge on you and he's going to win because he is so small. Uh, and he's also a, and I mean this in the most complimentary ways, a psycho, like he just has no fear and he plays a hundred percent all the time. And he's got hair on fire and whatever other cliche you like. I mean, the guy's nuts in a really good linebackery kind of way. Um, but I don't think that the physical tools are quite there to be talking about borderline pro bowler, uh. Because when you look at usually with the linebackers,

I mean that he's the smallest linebacker in the entire NFL. He would have to be on the field a little bit more than I think is ideal for him and probably have to pick off a few passes and be really good in coverage because there's some really good linebackers in the NFL. And I think Blake Cashman is also really the driver. So if somebody is going to make the pro bowl as a linebacker, it's probably going to be Blake Cashman, but is he a useful and helpful weapon that they can have involved

all the time? Like, yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, I mean, uh, you guys bring up his coverage and stuff. His coverage is never going to be like unbelievable because he's just not big enough to have that happen. And coverage for linebackers sort of comes and goes anyway, depending on the scheme and the situation. But I think with their roster, if it's a hundred percent healthy and an ideal world, Ivan pays place 600 snaps for you, rushes the passer a lot is in on running

downs and it's just a good player and probably not someone you're leaning on all the time J moles honestly adding Hargrave and Alan makes our depth that much better Redmond Taimani LDR and Ingram Dawkins As the backup for defensive tackles all being young is a good storyline, too. Yeah. No, I agree and I think that That's another part of it is just how much I think that that's another part of it is just how much we're going to see those guys play or is it going to be all Hargrave and Allen and Harrison Phillips all the time or is somebody going to make a case for themselves? That is a big, big storyline for sure is just how much someone else like Redmond or like

LDR can force their way into that conversation. Uh, yeah, I agree. Uh, that if sports science had been around for that catch against Buffalo, that really would have been something. Uh, let's see, speaking of Addison, who do you think makes the team? If he's out for three games? I mean, if it's another wide receiver, maybe you're talking about even like a lucky Jackson, somebody who's been around for a couple of years and they could be trusted. Um, if we're trying to figure it out right now, the top four wide receivers would be Jefferson, Addison, Naylor, well,

five, I mean, uh, Rondale more, I guess, and Ty Felton, like in an ideal world that Rondale more is good. That's your five. And then the next man up is whoever kind of wins that last position. But Lucky Jackson would have the most experience. They are Thomas is still hanging around. He's been doing it for a couple of years here and might have something to prove. Could be a just Sean Jones who always stands out in these situations. Good question. Uh, dusty. Do I think Xavier Scott has an outside chance to make RB3 with his experience as a kick returner and receiver?

I don't know if he actually does. I mean, with a running back, you never want to count that out because they have to have somebody as a kick returner who can get beat up back there and not have that be a big deal. And that's why I've been looking at Ty Chandler as he should be the one kick returning because if he gets banged up returning a kick, it's not a big deal. And that's why I've been looking at Ty Chandler is he should be the one kick returning because if he gets banged up returning a kick, it's not a big deal. If Isaiah Rogers gets banged up returning a kick, it's a big deal. Um, so I just don't know a ton about Xavier Scott. I haven't watched him a lot and it's one of those you kind of got to make me watch you if you're, if you're him, but we'll see. I mean, maybe. With running backs, you just don't know because a lot of times they can kind of just come out of nowhere and

then all of a sudden, hey, you're a guy. Black L Bundy says, when do you see O'Neal falling off? Tackles are tough with that because they can they can be good into 35. Really, it's health. It's entirely health related. The last couple of years he's gotten banged up toward the end of the year and that may have hurt a little bit but I see him as very much in his prime right now. Brian Allen or not Brian Allen. Brian O'Neill as being really still in his prime. So I would say I mean can you get health is a big deal, but can you get three, four more years?

I mean, such a great athlete that when you're talking about somebody who is a 99th percentile athlete at that position, he has such a great ability to recover because of it. He's got great quickness and then he's built up this technique over the years that, I mean, he could have a really good arc as far as like, he's built up this technique over the years that I mean he could have a really good arc as far as like he's not a guy that you think well if he loses one step it's just over like he's already an elite athlete so he's now had all the reps and all the years of playing to get to the you know the top of the league and be one of the best

right tackles in the NFL so even if he drops off a little bit within the next few years, you're still talking about someone who's going to be really good. Okay. Last one before we bring in Maggie's speaking of stars, could we bring in Teddy Bridgewater? If Sam Howell drops the ball during preseason camp? I don't know. I did see the story today about Teddy Bridgewater and I thought it was like, I guess they didn't make Friday night lights with rules, right? Because when, when you watch Friday night lights, there's one season where the coach has to coach a team from a school that doesn't have a whole lot of money. You know, he goes from like the rich school to the impoverished school.

And then he's kind of got to build up another team. Tell me other people have watched Friday night lights. And I was thinking about how that's like, that's Teddy Bridgewater, where he was going out of his way as like coaching his team in Florida, but also helping a lot of the kids with food, uber rides with you know stuff like that And then he gets in trouble for it And I thought are we keeping in mind that these are kids or or what I mean, oh no Teddy's players got to practice

Suspend that man. Oh, no, they had a good dinner. What a monster What an unfair advantage that he got his players food. I mean, my gracious, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? Uh, so that whole thing is silly and maybe it'll get resolved. I don't know if Teddy wants to play again or not. I mean, he came back to lions. I'm sure that they were so concerned about where they were at with their backup situation that they wanted to get Teddy back and maybe they thought they were going to win the Superbowl. So they thought, you know, get him back there to give him a chance at that. And he agreed to it, but I don't know if he wants to actually come back and play.

It seems like judging from what he got in trouble for, which was again, supporting his young players who are high school students too much. How dare you Teddy? How dare you? What kind of role model helps people? So considering that he got in trouble for that, I think that Teddy is in the right place in the world. I really do. He had a good career as an NFL quarterback and obviously if he hadn't had that injury, it probably would have been a lot better of a career and who knows what would have happened with the Minnesota Vikings, but one thing that's never been questioned is, uh, what's in that guy's heart and I wasn't surprised to see is like, if you saw the Teddy Bridgewater

was going to get in trouble for something, paying for meals for children would have been the thing that I would have guessed because of how freaking silly everybody is in the world. Um, but especially people in sports, that seems like he's in the right place in the world, coaching kids and helping kids and doing exactly what he has done. So now I see him on Facebook that he is raising money, uh, in, I don't know, I don't know what to call it the right way, but maybe going proper channels as opposed to out of pocket again, what a, how dare you, how dare you be so helpful? Um, anyway, his team won.

So maybe it was because they weren't, weren't hungry. Maybe it's because he, they had really good meals. That was their unfair advantage. Not, you know, being really good on the football field and coached really well from Teddy Bridgewater last year. What a stupid story.