Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - What are the Bills like without Josh Allen?

Episode Date: November 10, 2022

Matthew Coller connects with old friend Howard Simon to talk about the Buffalo Bills being a Super Bowl contender and how they look if Josh Allen can't play because of an elbow issue. Do they have weaknesses beyond Stefon Diggs? How the rest of the injury report could impact the game and how the Vikings and Bills match up.  -- For more of Matthew's Vikings coverage, head to purpleinsider.substack.com For bonus discussions, interview clips, and more videos, check out our YouTube channel! Interact with us on Twitter! @Purple_Insider Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, and we welcome into the show a mentor. Some would say a legend in Buffalo. One of my best friends in the entire world. Former co-worker of mine. Actually, I really worked for you, Howard Simon of the WGR Morning Show. What's up, Howard? You know, all those years here in Buffalo,

I don't believe you ever used the term best friend with me. I have probably text messages to prove to the contrary. You know, sometimes you don't always share all of your feelings about someone. You know, sometimes it's just dudes being dudes, guys being guys. You don't appreciate what you had, Matthew, until you left. No, we're good. We're good. All is good. We're knocking on wood. We're all saying prayers.

Everybody's walking around praying to the football gods today because nobody think about anything but Josh Allen and praying that his elbow's fine. Yeah. And we'll talk about that. But I also want to start out with talking about how weird it is that after I left the Buffalo Bills became a Super Bowl favorite and the entire time that you and I worked together I produced your show and various other things for a number of years that had me popping in and out so it must have been maybe like 2010 through 2016 and at no point during that time were the bills really remotely competitive. We ran Doug Marone out of town. Rex Ryan was just starting and the shine got worn off by the time that I was headed out of the Rex Ryan era. And it's just so funny. It's almost like when you go back to your small town and they've built a new convenience store and a new gas station, you're like, whoa,

this place looks a lot better than when I left it. That's going to be me showing up in Buffalo like, wait a minute, you guys, you're something now. Hey, and the hockey team doesn't suck. Not only did you personally continue the drought to 17 seasons, you were the beginning of the downfall of the hockey franchise. I'm just saying that sometimes the tanking takes a little while to work. Sometimes it's a long while.

And trading the guy, one of the trading guys you tanked for, or the main guy you tanked for. Look, I just want to say that the Colorado Avalanche had Matt Duchesne. He was a top draft pick. They traded him away. They built their team up, and now they're a juggernaut with the Stanley cup. So, and, and people question their tank as well. Oh, they've got all these draft picks and they aren't doing anything. Maybe they should have drafted in the sixth round,

like the Detroit red wings. Have you missed that voice, Howard? I was just going to say, for those that are enjoying the push, this portion of the podcast, this is what commercial breaks were like for all the years Matthew was producing the show for me and Jeremy that's exactly what happened in the breaks that comment that guy that voice right making fun of the people who were anti-tank uh so okay so here's my here's my question I know that it's Josh Allen like I know that Josh Allen is the reason why the Buffalo Bills are a Super Bowl favorite, Super Bowl contender. And even, even if he's hurt, like even when he comes back, they're still going to be that.

They're not going to fall completely off with Case Keenum. I know him well. He'll keep the train on the tracks and so forth. But what else? Like what else happened? Like I know that part, but think. But think of it this way. Think of it as, like, I left the movie early, and then I came back, and I saw the end.

And in the end, the superhero is winning. And I'm like, hey, Howard, what else happened? Well, one thing, the movie, the filming of the movie, the set, the day-to-day putting together movie was a disaster. You walked out because the movie looked awful. It was disorganized. They cast bad actors. The lighting sucked. The audio was bad. The director had no clue. It was a dysfunctional movie set. That was the Bills. Yes, Josh Allen, of course, but they got competent football people. They got a GM who knows what he's doing.

They have scouts and personnel people. They hired a good coach. He put together a good staff, and then they overhauled the roster. And guess what? They've had successful drafts. They're trading for the right guys. They're signing the right free agents. That first year, McDermott comes in, Poyer and Hyde are among their first free agent signings and look where they are now. And then of course, you know, Bean comes in and they get Josh. So it's, yeah, Matthew, it's just, you were here for a long, I mean, there's been a long list of bad GMs, bad coaches, bad contracts. I mean, unbelievably bad stuff. So why did the movie turn out to be great at the end? Because they finally found people who

know how to make the movie the right way. And this is what this game, even if Josh Allen is not playing, there's still a lot for the Vikings to be concerned about because this is a good roster and a well-coached football team. And so even though, you know, look, I mean, the reason you're winning is one guy, because if it's not Josh Allen, it's probably closer to a 500 team, but you also have to have support for him. And I think that one place we have to kind of talk about with that is Stefan Diggs. I remember the first time I talked to you guys about Stefan Diggs after the trade. And one of the things I said was, if anybody can take Josh Allen to another level, it is this man, because he is capable of things that most receivers are not.

Now, here's the part that we know in Minnesota. It's worked out great for Diggs. He's happy. He is a leader on that team. He's everything he wanted to be. He gets the football all the time. And ESPN just came out with these analytical receiver rankings and number one since 2019, Stefan Diggs. Like, he's that good, right? But fill in

the rest of the movie for that. How did it happen that he fit so brilliantly into that organization? Okay. Well, first off, flat out, as you already know, he's an amazing talent. He's just the complete receiver, right? The number of times we see replays of a game and Diggs is just blown by people. The number of moves he comes up with, the way he sells certain moves, the way he can fake out cornerbacks, the way, you know, the way he and Josh have that unspoken communication. They know what each other is thinking. And then you need him to make a sliding catch. You need him to do a toe tap. You need whatever. He can make fantastic catches as well. I mean, he looks largely uncoverable.

And so that's at the very top. But it also, a guy like that, this was part of that whole blowing up the roster. You know, being a McDermott came in here. If anybody from, you know, any of your listeners, your followers, if you want a good laugh, go look at the 2017 Bills roster and look at the receivers they had, and you'll just chuckle. They came in here and they blew up the receiver core. And they started with like, hey, let's bring in John Brown.

Let's bring in Cole Beasley. We're turning this thing over to a young quarterback. He can't have Kelvin Benjamin and Zay Jones and whatever the heck they were throwing out back then. The Diggs move was like, I don't know. It was just, I don't know if validation is the word word matthew but hey we're redoing the line we got our quarterback we're blowing up the receiver core we need the over the top stud we need the elite guy we need the guy who we hope our quarterback turns into a great player but guess what this guy will make him as

good as humanly possible that sticks that was like move, the linchpin move on the offensive side of the ball. Right? It's hopefully if they win the Super Bowl, knock on wood, Von Miller will be that move on the defensive side of the ball. But Diggs was it. No offense. They've got other good receivers. Man, as you know, he's something special.

And he, it's the, you know, I would assume Brandon Bean gets most emails and tweets and things from fans. Thank you for Josh Allen right behind him. Thank you for Stefan Diggs. It was a magnificent pickup for the Bills. And you know what? You said everything right. Leadership is good in the room. Teammates love him.

He's so popular here. The fans love him. He's making TV commercials. He's a great interview. He gets along popular here. The fans love him. He's making TV commercials and he's a great interview. He gets along with everybody. Fantastic move. Yeah. I think that what was misunderstood when he left here was why, like, why was he so unhappy? I mean, he was the Minneapolis miracle receiver. Uh, but I think that what people don't always understand is that guys that are that competitive don't always act rationally all the time or in a totally mature fashion so I can't say that none of it was Stefan Diggs but he's a very very intelligent person I'm sure that you've

recognized this from talking to him and having him for interviews and things and he he understood like he knew what the quarterback rating was when they threw him the football. He knew what his PFF grades were. He knew what the route running data said about how open he was and how he wasn't getting the football. And he also knew that in 2019, the Vikings, I believe were 27th and pass attempts like that, that he just was not going to be the centerpiece of the offense. As long as Mike Zimmer was here running a Gary Kubiak type of style. And I think he also wanted, and it wasn't really about Kirk,

but wanted a playmaker quarterback who could overcome when the other team was better. And he knew that there was just a lot left on the table. And I think that his frustration got the best of him at times in Minnesota, but also in 2019, he's one of the reasons they're in the playoffs at all, even though that was kind of the year that everything was coming apart. So I'm not surprised in the slightest that somebody who's that competitive could go and

succeed. And then all of a sudden the guy is just, you know, the, the, the best person in the world, because that's what, that's what he knew was possible for him. It's funny. One of the stories, one of the backdrops or storylines this week based off of you know the the offense didn't look good against the jets it didn't look good the last half of grand screen bay actually one of the stories this week is oh my god it's too much step on digs they need somebody else to step up it's step on digs and if you don't and if someone takes step on digs out of the game which the jets were pretty good at the second half the passing offense died without him the other day. So here you talk about Diggs is rolling on.

It's, hey, guys, they're trying to get Diggs the ball too much. You know, somebody else needs to help out. But I just think, you know, his playmaking, his – and like I said, even just the idea, just mentally, a message to a locker room, hey, we're here to win a Super Bowl. We're going to trade for this guy. And like I said, he's been great. No complaints. You know, everybody loves the guy. And it's funny too, Matt, one of the things I've learned all these years in the business, this whole thing, typically, you know, when you hear the word prima donna, whatever,

it's a wide receiver. And I've learned over the years, it's not fair to just say, when a guy complains that he wants the ball, oh my God, he's a prima donna. You know why the great receivers want the ball? Because they want to win football games. They have a fire to win. They hate losing. Diggs has that iconic photo of the AFC Championship game in Kansas City.

He's standing on the field, hands on his hips, and in the background you can see the confetti and the Chiefs celebrating going to the Super Bowl. The guy hates losing. The great receivers do. And the great receivers look at it and go, hey, if we need a big play to win the game, trust me, give me the ball. And if they get two touches or three touches and they lose, they're going to be pissed off because they're thinking,

I can help us win the game. It doesn't make you a diva. It doesn't make you a prima donna. They want to win the game. Miller doesn't want to come to the field for it. Does that make him a prima donna? I want more snaps. No, he knows he can make plays to close out a football game. And the great ones want to do that. And that was exactly Diggs in the divisional round, 2019. He was the last person off the field. And I remember seeing him as the last person off the field and being like, that's it. I think he's done here.

And, you know, in that game, he caught a 60 yard touchdown to start the game and maybe got targeted two times the whole rest of the game. I mean, I think that was where his frustration just boiled over and he wanted to be traded. It's like, look, I think that was where his frustration just boiled over and he wanted to be traded. It's like, look, I just can't. And it's no coincidence either that the day that Kirk Cousins got extended by the Vikings was the day that he sent out the tweet and that got him traded to Buffalo. Because I think that he understood that when the going has gotten tough for Kirk Cousins, he doesn't always get the ball to his number one receiver, which

he's seeming to change with just the Jefferson finally, but they could not get him to do it. Even with Jefferson, Mike Zimmer would beg him, like, just throw it to Jefferson. Just give him a chance. Finally started doing it a little bit this year. But I think that that drove Stefan Diggs absolutely crazy. It ends up for the Vikings all's well that ends well, but it's also like you could have actually had both of these guys and it could have been like Carter and Moss back in the day if they had maybe acquiesced a little bit more to Stefan Diggs. So I totally agree with you when you talk about that diva thing. It's like, yeah, I mean, every wide receiver wants to catch the ball because the greatest guys believe in themselves.

You know who ruined that for everybody or who kind of made that was Terrell Owens was a diva, though. Like, he really was. I mean, key to the city owner in Buffalo. People don't realize that. It's never talked about. But, you know, I think he actually was, and then everybody equated that to him. So you talk about the rest of the offense. It does not look good though.

Like beyond Stefan digs, their past blocking is not rated particularly high. They got beaten up by the jets. Now they're going to face the Darius Smith and Daniel Hunter, the running game. Can you ask the bills to stop investing in running backs? Like what is, what is the purpose?

They've drafted several of them. Now they've traded for another one. I don't fully understand it. And the receivers, Cole Beasley may have been bad at tweeting, but he was good at football. I mean, I, I, I just think that they've sort of failed to see some of the forest through the trees there with the receiver position beyond Stefan Diggs. Yeah. We've been discussing it this week.

I think it's a multiple-level discussion, and we're going to throw in Gabe Davis in here too. All right, you want to do running backs first. I don't think they're done trying to get running backs. If I had to guess, Devin Singletary, who is their number one running back, is a free agent after this season. I'd be shocked if he got a big contract. I'm sure he's going to want one, but I seriously don't.

And they just traded Zach Moss for Hines. Anyway, they might be looking for another running back. Yeah, they've been chasing running backs. Although I think with Hines and with Cook, that wasn't just a running back. It's a dynamic of speed. It's a dynamic of pass-catching running back. Singletary is okay at that, but they tried. They almost had, they thought they had JD McKissick in the off season.

That fell through. They drafted James Cook because he's a kind of a speed guy who can be a real good weapon in the passing game. Even when, after they traded for Hines, Brandon being the GM was saying, you know, guys, we've been thinking about, we've been following him for the last two, couple, three years. So they've wanted that component. So now they've added a couple to that. I think there's a, yeah, it's weird.

The running game here, I don't think the head coach goes to the play caller and says, I hope not, run the ball more. We need more balance because they don't. But when they run it, they just need to be a little more consistent, a little more effective. There are times when the best running game,

certainly against the Jets, the best running game was Josh and they don't want that. Okay, so that's the running game. The whole thing about Beasley, yeah, for sure, Matthew. I'm sure they had enough of the headaches with Twitter and the COVID discussion and all this stuff. But I thought Beasley was great here, really great. He was a big part of that Josh Allen development too.

And I think if there's an issue with the passing game, one of them is he was a reliable weapon. He came up in the clutch. You knew he was going to get open. He could beat the zone coming out of his bed. He could make plays over the middle. He would sacrifice his body. He could make plays in traffic.

But he was beginning to slow down. He would sacrifice his body. He could make plays in traffic. He was great, but he was beginning to slow down. He definitely had injuries. He's not a big guy, and his body was getting beaten up. I'm not surprised they moved on from him, and it's not just he became a headache with COVID. It's his contract. They needed cap space, and I think you

could see he was starting to get beat up. He's missing a little time. He's not able to make it through the season. And I thought, I think they felt, look, Gabe Davis has been a guy we've been waiting for. He's going to break out. He's going to have the big number two receiver season next to Diggs. We're going to give Isaiah McKenzie a little bit more on the offense.

Went out and signed Jamison Crowder. Well, he got hurt and he hasn't been able to play. Khalil Shakir, they drafted a receiver at the back end of the draft. Maybe we'll get him some snaps, and he can help out the offense. You got Dawson Knox. You got the backs. We're fine. Well, the problem is it hasn't played out that way.

Zam Kenzie is a nice player in a limited role. He's not a guy you can ask to do more than just a handful of plays in a game. Crowder's hurt. No production. Davis, you look at him, Matthew, you know this, so I'm not telling you anything you don't realize. If you look at his yards per catch, your eyes will pop out of their sockets. It's like 25 yards per catch.

He's a huge play guy, but he's not a volume guy. Your number two receiver can't be two catches for 71 yards. Your number two receiver has to do more than that, and he has not been able to do that. If there's a biggest issue right now, to me, Knox is down a little bit. To me, the biggest issue was Davis, who we thought, pop him in, here we go. 60, 70 catches, 1,000 plus yards. You mentioned Carter Moss. All right, Diggs Davis. This is going to be it. Let's go. And Davis just hasn't been consistent enough, and that puts a lot of pressure on Josh Allen and Stefan Diggs. What you really need is Quinn Early.

That's who you need. Oh, wow. Number 88, Quinn Early. Now we're talking. Very nice, Matthew. That's good. Maybe peerless price to be thrown in there. Yeah.

Third time, fourth time with the Bills? No, but I do think, like, that is, I don't want it to be, like, they're not panicking. I still think, as long as Josh Allen is healthy, I still think this is the best team in the league. They've got a really talented, deep roster. The number of injuries they have sustained this season, especially on the defensive side of the ball,

I'm not sure I've ever seen a rash of injuries to key players on one side of the ball like the Bills have dealt with. And yet, even with the Jets lost, they're 6-2, they're leading the division, they're the one seed still in the AFC. So this is a very good, that's why they're a legit Super Bowl contender. They're a really good football team. Are they perfect? No. And they need to figure out what's going on with their passing game. Folks, I want to say thank you to all of you who have given Liquid Death a try and sent me your tweets about it. Very cool of you guys to support the sponsors that support this show. I've actually gone to splitting my time between Diet Soda and Liquid Death's sparkling lime, but they also have Mountain Water as well. But it really says something if I've put the Diet Soda aside. And if you haven't tried Liquid Death because of its name

and the fact that it looks like a tall boy beer in the water aisle, well, it got its name because they're trying to bring death to plastic. Liquid Death comes in aluminum cans, which is easier to recycle because they can be recycled for profits unlike plastic. So Liquid Death gives 10% of its profits to help get rid of plastic. Also, the fact that it looks like a beer is just kind of funny. We still have construction workers at the house, and it looks like those guys are pounding beers while using chainsaws. Maybe that freaks out the neighbors, but it's just Liquid Death. Anyway, give it a try at your local stores, Hy-Vee,

Target, 7-Eleven, or go to liquiddeath.com slash insider to find where you can get it. That's liquiddeath.com slash insider. Right. If it's a multiple week injury for Josh Allen and you end up losing a few games, you could go into the playoffs as a four-seater, five-seater or something, and then win the Super Bowl because you were without Allen for a couple weeks when he had to get back. But that's what I was going to ask Howard is how strong is this team if Case Keenum is their quarterback?

And tell me, tell me Case Keenum does not have the most Kelly Holcomb vibes that you have ever seen in your life. I hope we don't have to find out the answer to the question you just posed. I would like to believe, like we're playing around this morning, if Josh is out two games, four games, six games, how far could you go? What happens? I wouldn't think of the one seed, but could they still win the division? Could they at least make the playoffs? In my mind, I just need this guy to be, can you be over 500? Let's say Josh is out for the rest of the season, worst, terrible thing thing or rest of the regular season.

There's nine games left case. Can you go five and four? I mean, that's 11 wins. You'll get into the playoffs. I need this team in the playoffs and Josh healthy to run to a Superbowl. So Matthew, I just,

I just need him to not have a losing record, you know? And I think I would assume you would know, but you tell me, I would assume the bills have to adjust philosophically. I mean, he's not Josh Allen. This is a very much Josh Allen-centric offense with his arm and with his legs. So if Case Keenum has to take over for multiple games, I mean, I don't know if they're trying to run the ball more.

Do they now become the short passing, yards after catch, you know, let's not put too much it's not 20 plus yards downfield hey we've got it you're gonna need your defense to play great um and and just kind of you know manage the game guy is that pretty much what we're talking about josh is not that josh is i'm winning the game for us hop on case keenum can't be that guy, right? Yeah. The thing about Case Keenum is he's more Ryan Fitzpatrick than he is like check, check down Tommy or whatever. Check down Charlie. He's, oh, they'll, yeah, they'll like him. The thing about Case Keenum that drove Mike Zimmer crazy when he was here is that he would take risks down the field when Zimmer wanted him to be that game manager. And in 2017, every single one of those downfield risks just worked. I mean, it was digs and it was feeling, and he was willing to push the ball

down the field and make plays. So it's funny because you always think naturally, oh, a guy's a backup quarterback. He must be just a game manager. Not always. Sometimes he's more of a gunslinger. And that was really the conversation around Case when he was here that he took a lot of risks and eventually it got him in the NFC Championship game when he threw a key interception, just kind of winging the ball up toward I think it was Adam Thielen, and it got picked off and run back. So, you know, I mean, there is a part of Keenum that has a volatility to him, but that can also

really work in your favor. The thing that the Vikings did extremely well that year though, was they ran a lot of screens. They ran a lot of passes to the tight end. And this is where like Dawson Knox, who has just not been a guy for them at all. Like they're going to really have to change the way that they play because so much of it is vertical down the sidelines. Well, Keenum does not have Josh Allen's arm. In fact, almost no one does. So they are actually going to have to be a pretty much a different team. If, if he like philosophically, if case Keenum is in, it's funny, um, the, the down the field and the aggressiveness and everything. I mean, let's face it. He has components here, Keenum, to pull that off if he could do it.

But, you know, you saying that and the conversations with Zimmer kind of took me back to Josh Allen early in his career. Josh Allen was always, I'm throwing the ball downfield. When in doubt, I'm going 20-plus yards downfield. And as he matured, as he grew, as the coaches worked with him, it became, Josh, it's okay to take a check down. It's okay to throw underneath. It's okay to look around, look around, bump it off to your running back.

I mean, so I thought as he got better, that was part of why he got better. He still has a great arm. They'll still make big plays. They'll still try going over the top. So it's kind of funny. I would have thought we'd have to throw that away if Case Keenum takes over. But if he does have that in him, I'm going to say that's a good thing

because this offense has players and the ability to do exactly that with Josh Allen in charge. Yeah, and the other thing is, I mean, Case is going to give you 110. I mean, every single game, the guys are going to love playing for him. He's going to do everything he can to win. But the funny part about him is through his career, he has sections of play where he's really good. I mean, his numbers are great. And then he has just catastrophic runs where he just plays super bad. And that's just who he is. I mean, he's an undersized quarterback who doesn't have a great arm who's willing to go out there gunsling and and so there's a lot of variance in what could happen very similar to fitzpatrick where fitzpatrick could go five and one he could go on five and right and i think that's what you're running into here and you can see that in the same game with fitzpatrick he could be like superman and one half and then three throws that would just

make you pull well pull your hair out um yeah but it's oh so i think with case too like like with josh again um what josh is the kind of quarterback that can make up for warts or make up for problems or flaws right if there is if the o-line's having a bad game guess what you? You might get done with the game and go, and they win, and you go, well, that was great. No, but Josh was making guys miss. Josh is running. Josh is escaping. Josh is flushed out to his right.

Nails a great throw to Diggs on the sideline. Like, you don't think as much about some of the rough spots in the game when you have a guy like Mahomes or Allen, these top-level guys, because you don't – they just make those mistakes disappear. Keenum, I'm going to guess, obviously, right, is not that guy. So if the O-line has a bad game, look, it happens to Josh, too. You mentioned the Jets game. The Jets were all over the Bills with a four-man rush.

I mean, their defensive line dominated the Bills, and even Allen couldn't make it look good. So I think that would be one area that I'd be concerned about. That quarterback, the Josh Allens of the world, can cover up for mistakes. The Case Keenums, the backup quarterbacks, a little bit more to ask of these guys. And who would know better than you,

having watched Kyle Orton, Trent Edwards, J.B. Lossman. J.B. Lossman, E.J. Manuel, Billy Joe Edwards. Oh, my God. It's just too many to go through. Did Craig Nall ever get in a game? Nall Ball. I think he did. Yeah, he wouldn't have, don't you?

Derek Anderson. Of course, the legendary Nathan Peterman. Matt Barkley as well. Matt Barkley, that's right. Mitchell Miske was here briefly, right? So, yeah, we'll see what happens. Like I said, I think if he's out, the big question is how many games. They have Minnesota here, followed by Cleveland here without Deshaun Watson.

Then it's the short week and they go to Detroit. So it doesn't look that bad. After those three games, that's where they start hitting the keep. They have three straight division games after that. New England on the road, Jets here, Miami here, which now are huge football games with the East as tight as it is. So if he's out, I think Bill's fans will cross their fingers and say, at least please let him be back for the first of those three straight division games. As long as he doesn't play like Alex Van Pelt or Billy Joe Hobart. Hey, fans loved Alex Van Pelt. That's another, right?

Not the most talented guy in the world, but for whatever reason, people loved him. Yeah, I shouldn't be down on Alex Van Pelt. I remember he had a big comeback against the Broncos in like 98 and almost beat them, but then came short or 97 maybe. But Billy Joe Hobart was a great story because he was unprepared to go into game. The starter got hurt, came in, was so lost that they cut him the next day. Cause he admitted he didn't, he didn't prepare.

He didn't look at the playbook. He was backing up. He's like, I'm not going to play. What do I need to look at it? And he admitted it. You just, you take your punk rock music with a guy named Billy Joe, not your backup quarterbacks. So, uh, well, sorry, Billy Joe Tolliver. That was, that was mean,

but, um, I want to talk about, so I expect, I actually think that the Viking should win this game. If Keenum starts because Zedaria Smith is destroying offensive lines, I think that's going to be a problem for the bills to handle. And the,

the counter to the Vikings is, uh, hitting a lot of passes in a row because they play deep so that if you can kind of dink and dunk, but they also pressure and they've been stopping the run lately, the bills don't run very well. What it really come down to is, could you force Kirk cousins to have two or three turnovers? You're playing outside it's Buffalo weather. It's one of the best pass rushes in the league. I mean, I think that with Keenum, this is an even matchup with Josh Allen. I'd be saying all right well you know don't get anybody hurt while

you get beaten by two scores right but it's just that's not that's not the case not not the case with case keenum potentially it right here's what i want to talk about before we wrap up howard the vikings and bills organizations have some funny crossovers and also some, some differences, but four super bowls, zero wins in those super bowls. Uh, a lot of lore when it comes to the sports tragedies that have happened to both of these franchises so much so that you have wide, right. And Minnesota has wide left. Gary Anderson. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

Falcons? Was that the year they had that great offense with Culpepper? It was Randall Cunningham, but yes. Cunningham, I'm sorry. Why do I always think it's Culpepper? Yeah, and then I'm trying to think. Now you got me thinking, Matthew, about painful Vikings playoff losses. Well, the 2017 NFC Championship losing to Nick Foles. Now you got me thinking, Matthew, about painful Vikings playoff losses.

Well, the 2017 NFC Championship losing to Nick Foles. You have 2009 Brett Favre throwing an interception. I mean – Was that in New Orleans? No. Yeah. It was. Okay. So this is the difference though.

Yeah, but hey, the Bills did it four times in their own Super Bowl. The Vikings had to do it over a number of years. We want to build Viking Super Bowls, what you're saying. Well, okay, so the gods would never allow it. Maybe one of them, but not both of them in the same year. It couldn't possibly happen. That's actually what was kind of going to be interesting about this was like, wow, these are two sort of franchises that have knocked on the door

and never really gotten there. But what's different is that the Vikings have been constantly good and somehow it doesn't happen. In fact, they have the best winning percentage of any team to not win a Super Bowl where the bills were horrendous. And then very, you know, for a short period of time with Jim Kelly, unbelievably good. And then horrendous for basically my entire existence all the way up until recently. It's very different from that perspective because Vikings fans have gotten close so many times. And said, how did we not win one where Bills fans? I was thinking about this, Howard. There are people who are 30 years old who have never seen a good Bills team.

Like, how crazy is that right well that's why i mean you know my son he's 26 these last couple years like playoff football intense postseason games like some of the stuff that you know when they beat the colts here a couple years ago like he was going through the roof he He hasn't – me, I'm, you know, I've lived through an era where the season began and you just looked at your calendar and said, okay, dear, forget about January. We got playoff games, got the AFC Championship at home this year. I mean, you just expect it.

Home playoff games and you win a couple home games, you're going to the Super Bowl. So, yeah, but it's fun. You know, that's been fun to watch because I lived it but as you said a lot of people haven't and it's really set the town you know this place has been nuts probably since devon miller signing i mean they would have felt this team was a legit super bowl contender anyway the minute they signed him it was like let's get to camp so that's why the josh allen thing knock on wood, it's nothing long-term because you know, the fan base has suffered here a lot. You're right about the Bills, largely in the Super Bowl era, an ineffectual franchise, you know, that had years and years of years where people felt the owner

just wasn't financially committed. He didn't really care that much about winning, just, you know, bad, everything dysfunctional they had. And then they hit like the late 80s, and that team came together, and that's the glory years. That's the golden era of Bills football, and they never won a title. So what does that tell you about the history of their franchise? That's why the stars have just, everything's aligned, Matthew. He's got to be healthy because the way things are falling, there's no guarantee. Hey, don't worry, there's 23, 24, 25.

Nobody knows. So the way things are falling, this needs to be the year he needs to be healthy because this fan base certainly deserves a Super Bowl. It has to have set in the minute you saw the injury report or the report that he was injured that last year might have been the big chance. Yeah, you know, my co-host Jeremy, he mentioned that. I didn't think about that at all. Jeremy brought that up on the show this morning. Like, one of

the things he thought about was 13 seconds, and this is in that discussion of, you never know. We're all fairly confident. I don't think it's us being a homer. They would have beat, I know the Bengals went into Kansas City and won. We were all feeling good about that matchup here, and they would have played the Rams in the Super Bowl, who they obliterated in week one anyway.

People felt the Bills would have won the Super Bowl. But you're like, okay, heartbreak, really angry, 13 seconds. We'll get them next year, fellas, because we're still really good. Hey, we got Von Miller. Yeah, you know, you hope like that wasn't your chance. This is the obscure hockey reference for the Minnesota crowd, the 2006 Buffalo Sabres, who should have won a Stanley Cup, but had four defensemen get injured in the playoffs

and played you and I on defense in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals. The chance never happened again after that. And then they're in a long playoff drought. You never know. You're right. I'd still feel very good about the Bills as long as Josh Allen's playing for Buffalo. The window is open with Josh Allen as your quarterback, but you never know what each season brings. Right.

And he becomes much more expensive as you go forward. Yeah. The cap becomes an issue. Yeah, for sure. And I'm not trying to pour cold water, but you know, I mean, Aaron Rodgers got one. Drew Brees got one. Like it's Dan, I mean, Aaron Rodgers got one. Drew Brees got one. Like it's Dan Marino got none. Jim Kelly got none.

Like it's hard to get it done, but it is remarkable. These franchises with such great players through their histories have never made it happen. One last thing. Just what was the rock bottomiest, rock bottom Bills moment of the drought? I have one, but like, what is the, what is the,

the, of all the time they missed between it was the music city miracle to the time Tyrod made the playoffs on the last minute with Andy Dalton. Right. Uh, but that was, that was what, like 20 years,

19 years, 17, 17 to the last season. They made the playoffs was 99. That's Music City Miracle. They made it again in 2017. So 2000 through 2016, which is really hard to believe in a league that's set up for parity with a salary cap and revenue sharing.

Man, maybe you tell me yours. I don't know. We did this show like Jeremy and I did shows of, we did a year where we did, Oh, it was the, the, it was almost like the showdown of the best moments, best of the drought era. And it was really us talking about the saddest moments of the drought era. Ah, there's so many, it's hard. Because you know what?

I don't think there's a – oh, gosh, duh. I was going to say I don't think there's a particular game. I think it's more about, you know, the time the owner named Marv Levy, the general manager, and we thought, oh, my God, what are you doing? It has to be the game they lost to the Pittsburgh backups with a chance to make the playoffs. The Steelers played their second and third stringers, and the Bills just needed to win the game, and they lost. And they missed out on the playoffs with Bledsoe,

and they were on like a five- or six-game win streak. They're humming. They're scoring 35 points a game. Steelers backups, final game of the regular season. You know what the bed, season over. That's probably the rock bottom he is. Didn't know it at the time, but as the drought kept going, that was 04 four i think

so we're only five seasons in looking back on it wow i just that's what's yours when you when you look at that roster too from that oh four team you're like how was this team not a super bowl contender they were so good and and bletzo never bounced back that same thing with like, well, next year they'll be back and whatever. And it was never that way. That was not it for me.

The previous season, right? 0-3 in the opener. That's the team largely that beat the crap out of the Patriots on opening day. 31-0. And then right down the old you-know-what after that.

Yes, Brady put it in his self-documentary. I was watching that part not too long ago. I'll never watch that. I can Brady put it in his self documentary. I was watching that part not too long ago. Yeah. You know, I mean, a lot of it is from a long time ago. Tom Brady is like older than you. So, uh, it's, it's sort of funny, but, um, he keeps me young. Actually. I was going to say that when I was in college and I was just starting to write for the Brockport newspaper, shout out to the Golden Eagles. And I was so I was writing like some they wanted some pro sports columns mixed in with their, you know,

reporting on the volleyball team or whatever. And so the the Bills had I think it was Dick Duran as their head coach and they played the Tennessee Titans. Do you know what game I'm talking about now? Dick, Dick Duran's last game, they played Tennessee. They were up in the game and they gave it away on some very bizarre call by Dick Duran that allowed Tennessee to kick a field goal.

Fitzpatrick through like back-to-back pick sixes. And the owner of the Titans. Oh, yeah. Yes. Sorry. Can you bleep that out? Yeah, sure. Bud Adams double bird. Yeah.

Yeah. Bud Adams double bird to the Bills. Okay, I'll tell you what. I got another one. This is just my memory sucks. It was bad enough when you and I worked together. It's gotten worse. So this is where I would lean to Jeremy and go, give me something here. We've been together for 18 years. He'll answer everything for me. it was bad enough when you and I worked together. It's gotten worse. So I don't,

this is where I would lean to Jeremy and go, give me something here. We've been together for 18 years. They'll answer everything for me. There was a time Chan Gailey. I don't know. Were you here for the Chan Gailey era? Do you remember? It's CJ's turn.

Fred's turn. Remember the whole thing about the running backs. And I think it was, it was CJ's turn. It was at Fred's turn. I don't know. Anyway, they had Fred Jackson at CJ Spiller. They're running, running, running. They got one guy's

really good. The other after the game, go to change. Hey, why did you change running backs at that point? Well, it was the other guy's turn. A head coach in the NFL said, well, it was the other guy's turn. What is this? Seven-year-old and Johnny gets a trophy. It's the other guy's turn. So that happened in the drought, huh dick geron was just you want to talk about a milquetoast guy who just blah i mean in the litany of bad coaches that came through here ladies and gentlemen give you dick we've gotten to the point where you can only make noises to describe how horrible it was but the the chan gailey thing i remember the most was when uh stevie Stevie Johnson celebrated in the end zone in a meaningless, totally meaningless game that they had started out with a big, it was like the last week of the

season. Yes. He wrote something on his shirt and he got penalized for it, which I don't even know if that was against the rules, by the way, which I think, I think it was actually determined that it was not against the rules at the time or something. And, uh, and Chan Gailey had to like state to his word that he was going to bench him. If he got a celebration penalty benched him, they lost the game. It didn't matter. It wasn't for playoff position or anything, but it was just like this, this shameful end of like, at least you could have gone out with a win against the Patriots that like a moral victory. And you couldn't even do that. You had to blow a 21 point lead because you benched your best receiver. I mean, there were some, yeah, there were some really ugly. The other one was probably, um, EJ manual throwing

the interception to JJ watt and that, and then later, later in the season, they went out to Denver with a chance to like stay in the playoff race. And Kyle Orton slid down two yards short of a first down when he could have run for it and then retired after the season. Just like, I don't want to play anymore. Yeah. There were, there were some moments, man. I don't know what year it was maybe around 2010 or so. I'm not sure it all blends in the opening night or week one. Leotis McKelvin fumbles in New England when it,

when there were 12 points up for like five minutes to go and we're all sitting to go, Oh, they're going to be Brady in New England. And then of course they found the, what we used to term the billsiest way to lose a football game. The bills were being billsy. That's a good one.

I mean, it was only week one, but it was just, you know, they, they found some really heartbreaking ways to lose to New England, although many times they were blown out by New England. Okay, so the low point there, though, is that they spray-painted Leotis' long-

Oh, the fans, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Jeez. Yeah, no, that was awful. You have always been an East Coaster your entire life, from New York, live in Buffalo. It's different in the Midwest, man. Like, just different it's not they're not like that they're not like that here they're not paying players long they don't issue death threats on twitter if a guy fumbles a punt return the tailgating is very friendly as well here okay well you know the tailgating here is

a little intense at times i guess are you going to be jumping through a table on Sunday? I never did it before, and I'm not doing it now. I am now too old for that. I think your followers would love to see you with a little video in the parking lot at the stadium Sunday, jumping through a table, preferably on fire. All right. Okay.

You come with me, and we'll do it together. My, uh, days are, uh, are over unfortunately. Uh, Howard Simon, you are the best sir. And, uh, I mean, you already know how kind you were to me when we worked together that, um, you don't, you don't always get that with sports talk radio hosts, that they are willing to help any time, give me all the air time. Too much. Sometimes we got yelled at for it, like for you giving me too much space. That actually did happen once. Don't have Matthew talk so much.

Sorry. Well, anyway. You said something nice about me. If I understand technology, I got to find a way to save this because it is now a matter of public record. It is now preserved on tape or something digitally. I have you saying something nice about me publicly. Yeah, I think they actually put every podcast in a museum. So you'll be able to find it there.

Yeah. All right, good. No, Howard, you are the best, sir. And I cannot thank you enough for everything that you did for my career when we worked together. So I appreciate you. And this was really fun, man. I'm glad we could get back together again. Well, you're awesome because you know, you, uh, as long as we have to say nice things about each other, I'm very much old school broadcaster. Uh, so I need to, to you know roll with the times and develop and and learn and all that and this is where you can what there's something called analytics matthew what's

analytics that's what would explain everything all right all right howard here we go this is how this works this is what expected goals this and i'm like oh my god this is all new to me so you helped me stay with the times which is actually actually, I make fun of it. But of course, it's very important in this job to stay with the times. And you were able to do that for old traditional guy like me. So thank you for that. You always kept me on my toes.

You're good at what you do, by the way. Yes, that's true. I mean, I wouldn't pay to see you and listen to you. That's different, but you're good at what you do. Well, I'm just impressed that you were able to use a link and log on to this. That shows how much progress you've made. You're never too old. Joe DiBiase, who's now our morning show producer, had to make sure everything was working. I'm like, Joe, I got to do a Zoom call. I got to go on with Matt. Make sure all the things are okay. Check this box. The mic is good. Okay. This is going to,

I had to make sure I did. Cause I would have screwed it up on my own. Let's face it. You know that. Well, shout out to Joe for all of his help and Howard, we will, we'll run into each other soon.

Hopefully in Buffalo, I'll be back there on Thursday. So hopefully we can get together. Anytime, Mr. Keller and keep going with everything you're doing. I know you're having a successful time up there. Love to you and Sloan. everything you're doing. I know you're having a successful time up there. Love to you and Sloan.

Appreciate it, man. And I appreciate all of you listening to Purple Insider.