Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - What happened to the 2025 Vikings? A round table

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

Matthew Coller talks with Manny Hill and Brian Murphy about how the Vikings' season fell apart, including the latest collapse in Green Bay. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider presented by Fandual Matthew Collar here along with Manny Hill and Brian Murphy for our Monday night roundtable as always. And this one is, let's just call it a little extra this evening with the news that J.J. McCarthy is in the concussion protocol, the now very real potential. that Max Brosmer could be starting. The Minnesota Vikings 4 and 7, which I promise were never on Manny Hills list when he was picking the Vikings over and over again this year. And so we are going to dive into what has happened to the 2025 Minnesota Vikings that I think we all expected

were going to be better than this. Even in worst case scenario discussion, I don't think any of us could have ever seen it coming that we would be talking about the league's worst. quarterback in terms of quarterback rating by almost 20 points behind 38th place, J.J. McCarthy and the many other factoids that have gone with the first six games. And it was highlighted by an 87-yard, 35-negative sack yard performance by J.J. McCarthy. So we welcome in Manny Hill and Brian Murphy for the roundtable tonight.

Why don't we just start with the big question. We'll get to the Fandual question of the day. get to what happens next with Max Brosber. But Manny Hill, what happened to the 2025 Minnesota Vikings? What seems to happen a lot, the season after they seem to have like a really good season. It just, it becomes just an almost a comedy of disaster. And this is right in there, 2025 is right in there with, you know, 2010 and 2001 and, you know, name any other season in which they played really well. And then the following year, they came in with high expectations and it just didn't resemble anything to what we saw the year before. It's been a disaster, really.

I mean, and primarily because of the lack of real production from the quarterback position. Rather, it's been J.J. McCarthy or Carson Wentz just hasn't been good enough to really give you a chance to really compete. And, you know, obviously they dealt with injuries early in the season, but, you know, they were, they've been the last couple of weeks at full strength for the most part. And it hasn't translated to wins. and it's been largely because of the lack of good quality quarterback play. It just hasn't been there. And now you see it at 4 and 7. And now you're wondering if, you know, when's the next time we're even going to see the QB1 of this team now with the concussion situation.

And yeah, it's bad, man. It's not good right now. It's really bad. All right, Murf, your turn. what happened what happened you well other than the 20 you know i've been in this market 25 years now so 2010 i was in the middle of covering that season for the pioneer press and that was a disaster on and off the field this is only on at least so far right the stadium isn't collapsing the coach isn't getting fired receivers aren't getting cut uh you know star receivers aren't getting cut

But I'm not sure I've ever seen a season evaporate the way this one has. And it really does raise a lot of questions, credibility questions. I frankly think there's a big credibility gap growing now with head coach Kevin O'Connell and the brain trust that really sold us on the notion that this is not only J.J. McCarthy's team, and it's his era going forward, but he's going to lead us to the playoffs because look what we've constructed around him. And the notion that it's comical to think of that right now.

I mean, not only because they're four and seven, but the way in which they went from at one point, I think three and two in thinking they might be able to get this to the midpoint of the season and McCarthy gets healthy. and, you know, there could be a jumping off point or a springboard. It's been one calamity after another. And the irony of ironies, you know, Mandy just brought this up. I mean, up until about the third quarter yesterday,

this was the first time they're starting five offensive linemen were in a game. The health of the defense has been, you know, peaking lately. I mean, there's obviously Grenard's out, but it felt like they were coming through that on the other end and really positioned to maybe salvage this season and instead they're regressing. And it, of course, is all on the shoulders of number nine, J.J. McCarthy, who's play,

he's just not a viable NFL quarterback, not yet anyway. And what's disturbing is it just seems to have kind of bled into the rest of the team because the performance yesterday, as bad as he was, was pretty much a total meltdown all around. I mean, four yards in the second half. I mean, that's inexcusable from a professional football team. So I don't know where to begin. And the news late today that he is now in the concussion protocol,

it's not a determination whether he's going to play Sunday or not. I don't know how you can run him back out there at this point, based on performance and now with this head issue. So, you know, Max Brosmer, you know, where have you been all our lives? Let's see what he has. But, I mean, you can't throw out McCarthy. I don't even know what the reset would look like at this point. It just never ends.

You come on Monday after a terrible performance and he's hurt again. And these are serious, you know, concussions aren't, you know, they don't just happen haphazardly. But you got to wonder about his durability. this point too i mean he he literally got ragged all the couple of times on those sacks and it just looked like men versus boy at that point and i anyway so there's just that's what happened it blew up and no one saw it coming and it's still burning and that's what's going to be interesting to see over these next six weeks yeah i mean if we go back it's all going to come to the decision that they made in march and then talk about salt in a woman's

that you are the center of the NFL universe for calamity right now in picking J.J. McCarthy, playing him on a team with this much talent and this high of expectation, having him perform as the worst quarterback in the entire NFL on a team that won 14 games last year with Sam Darnold quarterbacking them. And now you look across at the other side. You got to stand there the entire game as Kevin O'Connell and watch, regardless of what happens, a guy who's leading a top three NFL offense right now in Sam Darnold. And I mean, I think one thing we can clearly say is that there is no such thing as a quarterback whisper.

There are certainly people who are good at enhancing quarterback play. And I think that Kevin O'Connell with the right quarterbacks has shown us that he's that guy with Sam Darnold, with Kirk Cousins. I think that both of them at times while they were here, especially Darnold for most of the time, played by far the best quarterback he's ever played. played. I thought Kirk Cousins in 23 definitely did late 20, 22 at times, but certainly was the most confident as a leader that we had ever seen him be. And then even Nick Mullins had some answers at times. And that's the thing about, you know, this season versus 2023 is at least the

2023 games, I can go through them. They were all close. Sometimes they were horrible, but they were all close. They almost beat Denver. They beat the Raiders three to nothing. They came close to beating the Detroit Lions and almost making the playoffs because of it. And at least you felt like, wow, they're competing despite the fact that they lost their starting quarterback. This is the guy that you invested your entire franchise in to the point where you passed on a 4,000 yard, 35 touchdown 14 win quarterback. You were so sold, so convinced that this guy was the answer and also so convinced that

you needed to spend all of the Wolf's money in free agency. on a lot of risky bets. And that's what it comes down to me. All front office moves. And in this case, I'm not just going to call it on the front office. Kevin O'Connell, if you're going to take the QB whisperer

and coach of the year and everything else, then you are going to have to own the quarterback decision because no one is more responsible than him. He was the one who was hired to make this draft pick and make this call. He's the one that traveled the country, looking at all the different prospects and everything else. So we can't just say,

well, But when we start, and the ownership, by the way, I sat at a table in Florida with Mark Wilf, where he said the reason we're not getting Aaron Rogers is because we are sold on J.J. McCarthy based on what we have seen. So it is top to bottom on this decision and what happened here. They all are responsible, including the owners of the team. So as they're, you know, making decisions about how they feel about everyone, they also need to look in the mirror because they're the one who can ultimately call the shot there if they wanted. So they made a bunch of bets that I think probably were 50%, which is there's probably a 50% chance based on his draft status and his experience from last year that J.J. McCarthy would be good enough.

And with everything around him, it was probably a 60% chance, but that's not 100. And that all the players you spent money on, many of whom have injury histories would all stay healthy. That's probably less than 50% bet, right? Or that they would perform at their previous level of play, where you, getting Jonathan Allen from 2022? Were you getting Javon Hartgrave from 2023? Probably not, right? And then also that they could patchwork a lot of other things with, say, like, UDFA's on

special teams who keep making gigantic mistakes, right? So I think top to bottom, you made a bunch of bets that probably equal out to a coin flip and the coin did not flip your way and they end up here. If you keep the quarterback, Sam Darnold, that is. not a coin flip. That's probably an 80% chance because we've already seen it that you're at least a playoff competing team. I think what this comes down to, what happened to the 2025 Vikings is what happened in Glendale, Arizona, and in Detroit, Michigan in week 18 and the first round of the playoffs. Mani, I think that those two weeks and when we do the whole Viking lore

thing, if this continues to go the way that it's headed, that's what I will always go back to. is the Sam Darnold seeing ghosts can't perform in the big games, letting them down in the playoff game, which I think is not as much his fault as what happened in Detroit. Those two games shaped everyone's viewpoint to the point where they said, nope, we got to stay the course. This guy can't get it done for us. And that's why we're making this move.

Yeah. And it wasn't just the Vikings themselves. I mean, they're the ones who made the decision. but a lot of people in the fan base as well let their emotions immediately after that game in Glendale the Vikings get blown out of the season basically by the Los Angeles Rams. A lot of people were just, I think, emotionally reacting to what they had just seen from Sam Darnold

these last, you know, the last two games where he looked terrible. And the team as a whole looked terrible. The defense looked terrible. in those two games. And the offense was anemic and terrible. And I think it was very easy for a lot of people, including the Vikings themselves, to forget the 14 and 2 stretch

that Sam Darnold had the first 16 games of that season. And, you know, history says when your team that goes through a 14 and 2 stretch, you're a pretty damn good football team. and it was largely, usually largely because of how your quarterback plays. And, you know, it got, Sam Donald, for lack of a better term, got shown his walking papers, basically. And hey, Sam, thanks, but we don't need you anymore. We're moving on to the kid.

And now it's kind of blown up in their faces because the kid has clearly shown that he's not ready for this yet. You know, based on, there's nothing that we have seen in these first six games. and it is only six games, but it's also six games. And we have not really seen, we've not seen any of this yet, you know, for the listening audience, I'm moving my hand up in a direction that indicates an ascension into, you know, development and growth and improvement. We haven't seen that at all. And it's very concerning.

And now this franchise finds themselves at a little bit of a crossroads of like, what do we do if, you know, this concussion situation aside, what do we do if J.J. McCarthy shows no improvement for the last third of this of this season, you know, now you're really in a situation where you've got to figure out what the hell you're going to do with this quarterback position. Right. And there might even, I mean, there's so many scenarios from here on. there's coming back and playing against three of the worst defenses in the NFL looking better, but then to me that's unconvincing because of how far you've gone so far with these first six games and what the history, I mean, the comps right now historically are like Deshawn Kaiser and Dorian Thompson, like these are the guys who have played at this level. Usually they don't get many more than six games. I mean, there are guys that you'd be shocked who played much better than this. Like Josh Rosen, Desmond Ritter, Kenny Pickett, like there's lots of quarterbacks who

have done a lot better than this. But to go, you know, to go back to the point, Murph, I guess what I never fully wrapped my head around was it's not like you had to get rid of J.J. McCarthy if you franchise tag Sam Darnold. The whole plan was predicated on being able to spend money in this free agency. I mean, that's what it really came down to for them, that it was more important to spend the money and they thought that they could elevate what j j mccarthy could do but i think the missing common sense piece was that j j mccarthy hadn't played any football that they had no sample size on him whatsoever and they were trying to judge it off of eyeballing a preseason game and a 2024 training camp and what i kept coming back to and i know manny did as well and i think this was this

was totally fair was well they're the ones who see him every day behind the scenes we didn't see him the scene. We don't know what he's like behind the scenes. So they must have loved it or seen enough for them to believe, okay, they were so sold that they can move on from this and he is the next man up. And it's not that that had never been done. Like Carson Wentz, they moved on from Carson Wentz and Philly and they put in, you know, Jalen Hertz and that worked out extremely well for them. It's not like this is the only situation of all time where somebody moved on and ended up

having the next quarterback turn out to be good. the 49ers with Steve Young moving into Joe Montana's spot but usually you've had at least the Alex Smith to Mahomes but Mahomes played a real game and Mahomes had been behind the scenes so there was a real leap

of faith here that this was going to work based on I think a sample size that did not tell them the truth about how far along J.J. McCarthy really was. Yeah and let's not forget to it and it was talked about around the combine and leading up to the draft that he helmed a mostly run first offense

that Harbaugh really didn't always put the ball in his hands to make those plays. He made key throws at key moments, kind of like he's done here. A couple of third down conversions were, wow, look at the touch on that ball. You know, at the end of the day, that's table stakes in the NFL. You got to pick up third downs, not only to come back in a game, but to ice a game. That's what you do. That's what an NFL competent NFL quarterback does. So he didn't have a ton of that, but we were told he's a Michigan man.

He's a winner. He led a national championship team. You know, he's got the pedigree. And based on a lot of his moxie, a lot of what he said, the way he's carried himself, yeah, I can see a lot of that too. But it's ringing very hollow right now because what he is, you know, professing, you know, his confidence is fine. there's some things to clean up.

I got to do this every day. I got to put days together. And, you know, I keep hearing him. It's like, yeah, you're saying all the right things. But it's almost like saying, you know, I got to put one foot in front of the other and inhale oxygen. I mean, this is what you do. I mean, yes, you need to do that. But you also need to not, you know, get sacked in the most inopportune times.

You need to not airmail your receivers. You need to not be early in your throws or late in your throws, leading receivers into difficult areas or not waiting for them to come out of their breaks. You know, he seemed like he was able to calm down a little bit early yesterday because the run game was successful. So he was kind of able to ease into some things, hit some short passes. You just feel coming out into that second half as third quarter that, you know, maybe he can catch a spark and or maybe the defense will make a big play.

The biggest play of the second half, of course, was the special time. team's blunders. So there's that. But yeah, I think, you know, your hit on something, we did discuss this at the end of last season. You know, it's kind of a talking point. You know, how much of Darnold slash the Vikings' offensive performance in the week 18 loss at Detroit and the playoff loss to the Rams, how much of that does sour, did sour you on Sam Darnold? Did it, you know, make some of those 14 victories during the regular season look fraudulent and it did did it color your or bias your perception about how he could project going forward under a three year deal i think back now and i don't you know you you can

speak to the the technicalities of this but i i never felt like it had to be a long-term deal with him and with the team control with the franchise tag you know you get him for one year there is the financial haircut or the you know the tax you're paying because of that and that does cut in to what the off-season spending was. I think they were the second highest team in free agency this past off-season. I thought I had read that. So does that happen?

Does it happen if he doesn't play like he did in those last two games? And oh, by the way, I think they realized right away, you know, their interior blocking was terrible. And Darnold was flustered by that. Their defensive interior was, you know, being manhandled. so they dealt with those two things. I think two things got forged into the narrative,

which was, you know, we'll stick with our guy that we drafted and believed in any way. If we build everything around him defensively and offensively, then we'll get by and he'll develop and we'll kind of attack this with a two-prong approach. J.J. will grow and get better.

It won't be his burden to carry. We're going to run it back with some improvements and we're still a 14-win team. well the team that won 14 games last year is not here at all the defense not taking the ball away they're not wrecking plays they're not wrecking drives they're not getting into quarterback's heads if anything i think mat lefleur probably took his foot off the gas yesterday knowing how easy it was they could have easily put up 40 points with the way the offense wasn't doing anything so i think they did get lulled into a let's just let darnell go let's not go to the franchise tag route which has got its own thorns to deal with we already believe in this guy we're rehabbed him let's surround him with everything and and ride it out well both things failed the roster build and the quarterback and they are in a trap right now and i don't know where it goes there was a hedge

option of tagging him and then you wouldn't be able to go crazy and free agency but going crazy in free agency historically is always very risky, very, very risky because if you go nuts with a bunch of older players that other teams have let go, a lot of times it's really hit or miss. The year before, this just goes into, like they just believed in the stuff that was either unsustainable or a coin flip. The year before, they get Van Ginkle, Grenard, and Cashman, which is one of the most ridiculous free agent halls in history.

And how do you repeat that? Just go and get the next bunch of guys and think, well, I guess they'll just do the same thing. Even, again, where history says, not so fast, this doesn't always solve all the problems that you think it does. That whole dream team Philadelphia Eagles thing is the one that always comes in my mind when it comes to that where there was like the Sports Illustrated cover that's a dream team about the Eagles after they had spent however many dollars in free agency and then they won like six games or something. it happens kind of often, but you could split the difference with the franchise tag and then run back a team that had won 14 games. And yes, you have a tougher schedule. Yes, the division was going to be tougher.

And it's very unlikely that they would have won 14 again with a lot of the things that have gone wrong. And I also think there's a theoretical in a real world where Darnold's getting booed off the field if he has like a tough outing or something. And people are cheering for JJ in the most. a popular person, which this still rings true, is the backup quarterback and all that sort of stuff that we have to factor into the conversation. But when we're talking about the actual results of why it's gone the way it's gone, this singular thing is the cause, this singular decision

of going with McCarthy instead of Darnold. And then, you know, of course, and I've already banned comments that are negative about Sam Darnold. Like, look, you're losing that battle. You are you're trying to talk trash when you're down 52 to 3 right now. So like Darnold is thriving and crushing it and your team's four and seven. You have no leg to stand on here. There's also a lot of quarterbacks that I can name you whose first playoff games didn't go that good, including Joe Flacko, Matthew Stafford, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, all sorts of all sorts. Lamar Jackson is still struggling. I don't know, man.

I guess he's no good. And what is, I think, I think, um, I think, Arnold is something like 24 and 8 or something over the last two years. So, yeah, look, you're not winning that battle. So you could just save it in the comments. I mean, I guess it helps me with the algorithm if I get more comments. But the negative stuff about Darnold's going nowhere this week on this show. But that's, that's clearly the cause.

Now I think the answer is where does it go or the question is where does it go from here? So we know how you got there, which was some very dubious. things, like believing way too much in your ability to find free agents, way too much in your ability to coach up a quarterback and make somebody have way more experience than they actually do. And this is where, as McCarthy was getting whooped yesterday, I felt bad for him as a person because I thought you didn't put this on yourself. You did not put a 14 win franchise on yourself to go win. And you didn't force yourself out there with no competition whatsoever in in the off season, that was decisions that the decision makers made and not him.

So it's not his fault that he needs more time and needed more development. But where does it go from here is a question, Manny, that now there's like a 50 different paths. There's a path where Brosmer is like good. There is a path where McCarthy comes back. Maybe it's even this week if he passes concussion protocol, but I would not. advise it. Go into concussion protocol after a game and then play the Seahawks, a top 10 pass rushing top 10 coverage defense. I don't think that's a good idea. Hard pass. Yeah, I'm out on that. Bring him back against Washington, I guess. If Brozmer doesn't play very well,

keep playing Brosmer. If he does play well, like I don't know. And then on, I said yesterday that we've turned that corner to talk about 2026. So where do you want to take this conversation for what happens next man yeah i mean i think the the the problem that i'm struggling with when it comes to mccarthy is that we just i'll say it again we have not seen any progression at all from him if we were seeing some mild improvements over these six games i'd be more inclined to to feel like all right, well, let's get him back. You know, if Brozmer needs to start the next game, you know, we'll get McCarthy back in

and see what he can do the rest of the season and finish up. But I don't, especially when you only get, you're only quarterbacking four yards of offense in the second half yesterday. And we know Micah Parsons is a monster. But that's, when that type of production or lack there of is happening in a game like that, from a quarterback that you're putting everything on and you're expecting to see growth and improvement

and you're not seeing it at all. If anything, you're probably seeing regression. That's really alarming and it has me at a point now where I'm not really even sure if this is going to work out at all. I'm not ready to call it that definitively yet, but I think we're kind of in a situation as observers, fans, throw myself into both of those categories, we may have to consider the possibility that this is just not going to work out. And now it's like, all right,

well, if that is the case, and we'll find out throughout the rest of this season, then what do you do? Are you looking at, I don't know, are you, next year's draft class doesn't look good for quarterbacks, really? we don't we have no idea so now it's like all right are you looking at potential trade to bring in

somebody that maybe is on his way out at a different place to bring in and compete with McCarthy are you deciding to you're going to go to the the cardinals route where that they did with josh rosen where it's just like yeah we're just we're just done we gave this a shot for a year and this is just not going to work and we're going to move on completely and it's not even going to be a factor next year. I don't know, but this is what they're going to have to figure out over these next five weeks. And to me, I kind of feel like unless they see significant progress, I mean, legitimate improvement, not just, oh, hey, he threw for 160 yards and he didn't turn the ball over. He's improving. He's getting better. No, I mean, we got to see something,

especially with the opponents coming up after Seattle, we got to see something, because there's There's going to be opportunities there for him, provided that he does continue to play. There's going to be opportunities for him to have success against these future defenses that he's going to face. But again, we said that against the Chicago Bears going into that game, and he couldn't do it. And so now they're in this position where if they don't see that, they don't see any improvement at all, where do you go? But there's going to have to be a plan in place, I think, for KOC, for Kway, for this organization. And there's got to be something in their minds that's going to give them an idea of what they're going to do if this actually does not work out the rest of this season. Okay, Murph, your turn.

Yeah, you mentioned what, 50 options on the table? I think that might be about accurate. I mean, that's where we're at. And they can't be stubborn enough to not look themselves in the mirror and realize they blew this. And we need to really reconsider everything. Let's go back over everything. Let's scour what we thought we knew about McCarthy and what is the plan going forward,

assuming he gets healthy enough here. I'm not willing to give up on the McCarthy experiment, but I'm also willing to acknowledge, as Manny said, that it may never work. And you have to be able to confront that right now as a fan and I think in that organization, that what we've seen through six games has been so, bad and look so bad. You know, the optics are almost as bad as the numbers. I mean,

he just doesn't look like a professional quarterback. And, you know, how does that change? You know, I don't, I don't, you can go to a footwork camp for six weeks, but, you know, why are you in the NFL? I mean, how did you get, you know, the, he's been kind of talked about and treated as if he's a, you know, a ninth grader going out for quarterback for the first time. I mean, this is a top 10 draft choice, and he's the face of your franchise. So if he lacks all of that fundamentally right now, how did that get missed? So everything is on the table. Look at what Brosmer can do.

Why? Because, gosh, maybe he can be your next Brock Purdy. We won't know unless you try. I was convinced this conversation wasn't going to happen ever, just unless he played down the street. but considering the way McCarthy's looked and how banged up he is. Yeah, let's get Brosmer in to Seattle at the very least. He's got a quick release, apparently. So that might serve him well.

I don't think there's going to be any controversy anytime soon unless Brosmer rips off five or six wins and suddenly the Vikings are back in the end, the hunt graphic, while McCarthy is convalescing. Now you've got a problem. Going into the offseason and going into next season. If you're going to stay with McCarthy, it is imperative to bring in, I think, a proven starter and a proven veteran and say it's an open competition. And not only do we need to see you play incompetently, JJ, you need to beat out a guy who's got X amount of wins, X amount of seasons, and is pulling in a few million dollars.

And I'm not talking to Joe Flacko or Carson Wentz, you know, out of the bone yard or the dustbin. I'm talking about either making a trade, and I don't have the names off the topic, but I'm talking to 34, 35-year-old, not a 41-year-old or somebody who's broken down physically. I'm talking about somebody that is starting games now and has a proven track record. I think at the very least, it might, you know, it'll open up McCarthy to a competition. It should surface his better qualities, again, with a whole off-season. And if he doesn't win the job, you know, he sits back and watches a guy perform. Maybe you got a 9, 10, a win-11 win team.

If he fails, maybe he comes in in the middle of a game or he comes in in the middle of the season because a lot of quarterbacks have to have those experiences. You know, O'Connell's done an unbelievable job both talking to the media and even yesterday's game plan of literally swaddling J.J. McCarthy in the most. protective environment possible to help him work through it. And it hasn't worked. And at the end of the day, he's an NFL quarterback. You can't hide him. You can't bury him under a run first game plan and expect to win week to week. You can't allow, you can't protect him from adversity. He's got to go through it. Basically, yesterday's performance was on that verge of, as you said, Collar,

is this going to damage him permanently, physically and mentally? And are we watching just, you know, masochist, let him be out there performing like that, that was close. The concussion, maybe it buys him some time and makes that difficult decision, you know, avoidable for now of whether to bench him. But McCarthy's free ride and smooth path to his dream job is over. And he's got a big hill to climb, a big pit to climb out of just to get back to square one. and now it's out of his control. And, you know, depending on how the Wilf's think at the end of this season, how it plays out,

they may decide there's somebody else that should be making that decision as well. Everything's on the table right now. Yeah, I think it would have to be so much more toxic if you were going to make a change now. And I don't think that that would make a whole lot of sense. I mean, you've already had under this leadership 14, 13 win seasons. They've put together, I think a very good roster. And the reality of the quarterback position is that if they were playing from ahead and they were a top 10 offense, this defense would look a heck of a lot better. I mean, them yesterday, when the game is close before Miles Price gets pushed back into a spinning football, I mean, the defense is playing fine.

They give up one long drive, but, you know, it's field goals and it's getting off the field and giving them an opportunity. I mean, when they receive the punt, what is it, 10 to 6? when Miles Price gets pushed back into it. I mean, it's 10 to 6 and they're getting the ball back. It's like, what else are you supposed to do there against Chicago? The same thing. What else are you supposed to do there? They gave up, what, 19 total points and three of them are off of a kick return.

So two poor drives against the Ravens. You can even say the same thing. They need takeaways. Yeah, I know. And the reason that, you know, the reason they're not getting takeaways is who they're playing for opposing quarterbacks. They've played a much better quarterback slate than they did last year. And yet still, the numbers.

are not even bad when it comes to how they're playing against these opposing quarterbacks, they've given this team a chance to win a lot this year. I mean, I think there's some regrettable games earlier on when they're missing Cashman and Harrison Smith and Andrew Van Ginkle. But once they've gotten those guys back, this has been a defense that you could win a lot of football games with. And they could have won this one and they could have won all of them the last three games. They could have had a four game stretch with all wins the way their defense played but the margin is so thin you give up one bad drive you give up one mistake on special teams and you rank 30th and quarterback play well i went through this number i'll

give it again uh that i looked up every team because the vikings i believe ranked 30th and team quarterback rating now it might have gone down but i looked at every team that finished 30th and quarterback rating they never got past four wins i mean it's just was like you never do when you have quarterback play at this level. If it was even average, I think this team is looking at being dead in the middle of the playoff race. But when we start looking forward, which I think this is a week to do it, it's a week to look back at the darn old decision and it's a week to look forward to the next

decision. I mean, the names that have come through my mind and the chat was doing a very good job of this, James Winston, bring Kirk home. the most realistic is probably Mac Jones, who played really well for San Francisco and got completely screwed by, you know, Bill Belichick and his girlfriend running the team or whatever in New England

and him hiring Matt Patricia, a defensive coordinator to do the offense because, uh, what? Joe judge. Right. And then he went to Carolina, or not Carolina Jacksonville. And then that was a mess too.

So Mac Jones kind of has Baker Mayfield or something written all over him but I mean you know what came to my mind is hey Aaron we're sorry we should have brought you in last year Pittsburgh's not that good how how about you come play with Jefferson next year because Aaron he's looked a little more spry I guess I know he's he's injured now but everything is on the table imagine having to grovel at grovel for Aaron Rodgers services the the problem is, Murph. It makes sense. The, the options are just not there. I mean, the way James is playing, I did think, I wonder what 40 touchdowns and 35 interceptions looks like. 9 and 8. I think that that's what they would probably do with James and a quarterback. Now, even

funnier would be if the Colts start to fall off, because, you know, they really blew it yesterday against the Chiefs, if they fell off and the Vikings signed Daniel Jones back, only this time they had to give them like $40 million to come back. I mean, literally everything is on the table at this point. The only thing is, you know, when we pick apart these games by McCarthy, his age makes it unfair to make the decision. But the problem, man, he is they have to. They're not in a spot where I was looking at Cam Ward's numbers today.

I'm like, it's pretty gnarly. It's not great. He actually has way less turnover worthy plays than I would have thought. but hasn't been going well, but they could get, they give him three years. They could give him all the time that he needs to figure it out. And they can let that whole thing play out in Tennessee. They could get him a new coach and try to tailor the whole thing to him. This team just doesn't have that much time.

And that's where this goes beyond, well, you may have made a very large mistake to more of like a bigger picture. Where is this regime headed? Because let us not lose. sight of the fact that Kevin O'Connell has no playoff wins. And we, not we, I always was respectful of the early parts of Mike Zimmer's time. But we destroyed Mike Zimmer. And he missed the playoffs two years in a row and didn't get a playoff win. Like after 2019, they get that playoff win.

Two years in row, we destroyed him. It was super toxic. He deserved it. And the whole franchise was in flames by the time he left. But still, I mean, by his first year, he should. should have had a playoff win if not for a terrible kick in an ice bowl and then by his what third year they're in the nfc championship and even his fifth year where everybody hates each other they're still winning a playoff game and this regime has nothing to show for all of this so far and we're

going to put another notch in that bedpost with no playoff wins here and that means 2026 is like put up or shut up time yeah i mean it especially when you have all of your, you put all the eggs of your into the basket of J.J. McCarthy and you spent this whole off season convincing everybody that everything that we've seen in practice from them is great. Everything we've seen in OTAs and training camp is great. This kid is ready. We've put together this roster that's ready to win right now. Look at the veterans that we went and signed. We improved the offensive line that the fan base has been clamoring for us to improve for years. Even back to before Kevin O'Connell got here, people have been complaining about the

interior of the offensive line, and they finally addressed it, and they took care of that, and they addressed the interior of the defensive line, and they're bringing Aaron Jones back. And they get, hey, they got Harrison Smith back, who's, you know, nearing the end of his career for one final for one final run, perhaps, with him before he rides off into the sunset, rather that's this year or after next year or however long. But, you know, this was a situation where the expectation, and you're coming off a 14-win season, the expectations were to win and that J.J. McCarthy, this 22-year-old kid who hadn't really played a lot of football at all in almost two years, it's just going to, you're just going to plug and play and just put them in and everything's

going to be fine and it hasn't happened at all so now you've got that you mentioned the lack of playoff success now they're they're in a really really tough situation and now you you got to wonder are they going to make another sort of rash emotional type of decision similar to what they did when they sort of let sam darnald go based off of two games that he played at the end of the year are they going to be forced into making another decision like that? Because now it's like, hey, it's put up or shut up, like you said. We don't put something together. You know, you can't just roll into 2026 with JJ McCarthy as your only option

a quarterback because if you get off to an 0 and 3 start because he hasn't gotten any better, now you're looking at Kevin O'Connell and or Brian Flores and or Quasi all. I mean, that seat is going to. to be sizzling hot if it's not hot already going into 2026. Remmer 3380 says before the season, the consensus amongst us was anything less than a playoff win in 25s. An abject failure should be treated accordingly. I 100% agree.

Totally agree. Because when you make that move, you don't get a bunch of grace time. You really don't. And when you spend more money than anybody else, you don't get that time. And when your leadership shows up at TCO Performance Center with more as required shirts talking about how we need to take it to the next level from where they were last year, nobody walked into that building at the beginning of the year thinking, oh, it's just a development year for our quarterback. That's Tennessee. You are not Tennessee. And yet Tennessee right now looks in like a better position because it's more clear what their future is going to be.

as much of a trash fire as that organization is and, you know, I don't think there's any reason to believe in them, but at the same time, like, they know where they're headed, where the Vikings push the chips to the middle of the table and, uh, I don't know poker references. It didn't work. So, uh, that's, that's put them in a position of, as you mentioned, now it's got to be desperation. And what did we see from the Vikings? What did they do under the last regime when desperation hit? they kept extending Kirk Cousins, making him higher paid, taking bigger portions of the salary cap so they could try to get another playoff appearance, squeeze that out, hope to find the next superstar with the 20-somethingth pick in the draft, which they actually kind of did a couple

times with Jefferson and Derisaw, and then rebuild it the way that they did before. That was a desperation play, and now it feels like there are no other plays if J.J. McCarthy does not come back and show something really special. And even if Max Brosmer does, I think you're still looking at competition. So I've asked Murph the same question every week it feels like, what would success look like now? And the goalposts have moved whoa all over the place this year because the goalposts at first were playoff win. And then the goalpost got to, well, if they could be playing for something in the final week of the season. And then the goalpost went to McCarthy, something.

And now, now what is it? What is it, Murph? Is there any way they can get to a point week 18 walking off the field, ending their season and booking their vacations to Bora Bora or whatever we say shells that we figured out? And apparently we still got that wrong the other day, Mani, about where say shells is. Is there any way that we can say, well, they did the best? they could under the circumstances.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think a victory total matters. I mean, they're at four now. I don't think five, six, seven, eight makes any difference where the season ends. I think what they really need, and it will cut both ways, or hopefully it cuts both ways, what do they have in McCarthy? Do they know by week 18, they've got six games now that they'd rather just burn and then throw the ashes into the ocean? I get that.

If he's not able to play this week because of his concussion, if he's not able to get back on the field because of Max Brosmer, then you may have some idea what Brosmer can be. You still don't have any idea what McCarthy can be. And what are you going to do in the offseason? If you can get, if McCarthy finds his way back on the field for, what are we at, six games left? I mean, three, three to four starts, and I'm not talking hugely productive starts,

but starts that were reminiscent of Detroit and starts that feature some of the moxie he showed opening night in Chicago. If you can stack a few of those quarters together, and is that asking too much for straight quarters of competent play, reduce the turnovers, find ways to get more connections to your receivers. I may be wishing too much right now because this is all basic level material. But I think if you have a much clearer picture on who J.J. McCarthy can be for you and whether that means out the door or maybe we can coach him up more and get a veteran in here and he can kind of compete and maybe get on the field, maybe not, maybe learn. We can win some games.

Or he comes back and he has three of his best games and he's thrown for 300 yards and four TDs, no interceptions. And suddenly they finished seven and ten because they won three under the last four with him looking good, including against Detroit and Green Bay. At least in those scenarios, you have a clear picture of what you have with McCarthy. That's what you need to have by week 18. It's pretty close to being baked in right now. He's going to have to do a lot again to really trash these six games. I think that's the best you can hope for is clarity. So here's, I'll throw this out there.

And this is really, it's harsh, but we're in that spot today. I think it, I think it's best, unless J.J. McCarthy was going to come back and play like a top 15 quarterback. It's best that it just goes off a cliff or just Brosmer continues to play because maybe he's keeping the train on the tracks a little bit. because if you get tricked by a couple of games against Dallas and the New York Giants, I mean, the Giants, did they give up like 12 yards per carry yesterday? I mean, this Giants team has given up. They are done. They have booked the vacations as we were talking about the other day.

They're out. They don't want to play anymore. And if the Vikings are trying to play, they're a little more motivated, they've got a better culture, they've got veteran players who are playing for their families or whatever. I mean, I didn't think the Vikings gave up yesterday. I thought that they just got completely trounced at the end of the game. But, you know, you got all these players who are prideful people with big contracts and stuff. I think they're playing, they're going to play hard through the end of the season.

And if you're facing teams that have given up on their year, you might do really well. I mean, Dallas definitely hasn't. But Washington and New York, you might do pretty well. If you get fooled by, oh, well, you know, at the three out of the last five games, he played well. but the last two, maybe he's okay against the Lions and then gets beat against the Packers. You'd be like, well, you know, he did a real good job at those last number of games. This is what we heard when Kirk won the playoff game in 2019 at the Combine from Rick Spielman. He said, Kirk has proved he can win the big games and in the playoffs because of a wild card win

where they literally won a coin flip, threw a bomb to Adam Thielen, got in the end zone on a pushoff, and then it was like everyone's keeping their job again. the amount of we we have started to add up some small sample size things that have shaped decision making from this organization at the top that you start to go is uh is that the best way to do it but um anyway so i think that they need a of a crystal clear result from mccarthy if when he continues to play or from brosemar but you know brosmer to me can't be just qb one if he has a good end to the season but everything um on the table at this moment.

Usually at the end of our roundtables, we've kind of looked at something else in the NFL. An exciting day for a lot of people that were not us. But very exciting if you enjoy the Los Angeles Rams, the cream of the crop in so many ways, from the front office leadership to the best head coach in the league, to a quarterback who I'm not kidding, is playing like Tom Brady right now.

And it is the ultimate irony that Matthew Stafford getting old and hurt has made him twice as good and also hey how about all the teams that didn't call devante adams this offseason like what are you thinking uh but uh that situation is really good for them so that is the fan duel question of the day here for you guys which is the rams now are the super bowl favorites plus 430 on fan duel is there anybody else in their stratosphere right now of the los angeles Rams, Manny? No. That's, I mean, that's the answer. No. I mean, they're, they are head and shoulders above everybody else. Now, you can look at some other teams and say, hey, if they, if this quarterback gets hot, if they get some favorable matchups in the postseason and get to the Super

Bowl and maybe catch the Rams on an off day, you know, talking about AFC teams specifically, then maybe they can find a way. If you're looking at the NFC, if Philadelphia somehow can really figure it out, but it seemed like yesterday they figured out how to get the ball to A.J. Brown, and they still end up losing the damn game. So, I mean, I don't know.

I mean, I just think with the way the Rams, the Rams are clearly the most complete team there is in the league right now with that defense is so good. They're just so good. and they're young, too, so they're going to get better, which is just terrifying for the rest of the conference. And Matthew Stafford is playing at, I mean, you said it, like Tom Brady-esque performances, Hall of Fame stuff.

I mean, he's, I think he's a frontrunner for the MVP right now, and if he gets that, and he's got, because I know there's been questions about, you know, hey, is Matthew Stafford, a Hall of Fame and all that? I think if he gets an MVP this year, he's got the Super Bowl ring already, I mean, you can book and you can start sizing him up for a gold jacket at that point, especially if they get back to the Super Bowl and win it again.

You get a second ring for him. I think that's not even a discussion anymore on his status as a Hall of Famer. But, I mean, the way he's playing, I saw it, I saw watching Sports Center last night. They were playing the highlights from the game. And I think it was, he's thrown 27 touchdown passes since the last time he threw a pick. that is that is nuts in a in a year where quarterback play is terrible around lee and is down and is down at its lowest point i saw my friend sal capaccio from buffalo had a viral tweet about

this where it's like the lowest yards per game since 2005 and here's stafford just being like i'm 2005 brady or manning the way that he's playing is anybody uh that's the the The Fandu a question of the day, Murph, anybody else in your conversation other than the Rams right now? No. And that's a that's a byproduct of how Philly has looked kind of in the aggregate all season, but also yesterday blowing a 21-0-0 lead. And despite getting Brown into the offense and doing it in an ugly fashion to a, you know, grand a Dallas can score. But that was that was not a good look. So no, and the way I look at is they, I wrote this down, they there's obviously one six in a row, but their point differential is 11.

It's 127 overall, but it's 111 since week six. And that's almost twice as much as New England and Seattle who are next. And those are two really good teams. So I think if Stafford stays healthy, and that's always a, you know, a little bit of a wild card, because he, what is he, 38 now, 39? 37. 37, and he's had major back, neck, all kinds of, you know, put him in the meat grinder issues. So he's tough as nails. If they can get through these six games with him unscathed and have him, you know, humming into the playoffs, I don't see any unit stopping their

offense or defense. The one thing that may be a wrinkle again, and just because this happened last year. If Philadelphia somehow gets that home field and they got a cold, windy, snowy day again, that could be something that might be tough for the Rams. But it's kind of an old wives tale, too, these West Coast teams that go out in the winter. I mean, I think the Rams back in the 60s and 70s, because they always seem to come to Minnesota and losing the playoffs, kind of became the poster children for, you know, soft, warm weather teams. But that's really all I see right now is there's nobody in the NFC that's going to stop them. an injury to Stafford or, you know, a blizzard type game might, might, uh, even the odds.

Yep. And they're probably going to play at home anyway. So that's, and they were, they were, they were got head to head on Philly, don't they? Yeah. Uh, no, I think Philly actually, did Philly beat them on on the field block? Yeah. The field goal block. So they do have that. But then, you know, Philly just has looked so, uh, mediocre offensively that it's hard to really bank on them being in that discussion. But the Rams, the top to bottom, most complete team. And by the way, going to have probably a top 10 to 12 draft pick for next year as well because of the deal. Now, I wouldn't, I wouldn't give Donovan Jackson back. I'm very, very, very impressed with Donovan Jackson. But I did get the sense that that deal was on the table for the Minnesota

Vikings to move down. Now, when you look at the other guards that were taken past Gray's Abel and Donovan Jackson, you'd much rather have. an offensive lineman who's 22 years old tough as nails playing his heart out he was trying to go back in the game yesterday when he clearly injured his ankle and uh he's done great for them so that that's turned out to be a good pick but when you're talking about a team that is in some dire need of younger pieces going forward to not make that trade i don't know that's another just throw it in the second guess bucket that's that's what i'm going to call it let's go into the second guest bag what do we got to here today uh because j hawkinson direct snap well i mean how about just

How about just T.J. Hawkinson? I mean, the whole, look, there's a lot of plays out there to be made for him. But it's suddenly, some of this stuff is a little bit of bad luck and some of it is, maybe you could have seen this coming. When they traded for Hawkinson with that draft pick, you knew they were going to have to give him a huge extension. And then the minute that they gave him the huge extension, a bunch of good tight ends came into the league.

And it's now become a deep tight end league where you're seeing kind of an influx of all these people who were maybe influenced by Travis Kelsey early in their high school and college careers that want to play that position instead of edge rusher and so forth. And now it's kind of like you can't, what is the saying like swing a cat without hit? Is that like a saying without hitting a good tight end? I don't know why you'd be doing that, but that's a saying. That's what it feels like. And you have a tight end that you're not using and probably is not in the category of some of the better guys in the league right now. so back in any younger right and and you know there there's as we turn the corner into

offseason discussion here exactly where I thought we'd be in week 12 or whatever uh there's some guys right now that you're looking at going are you going to be here like what are you going to do with this person for next year uh just to give you the Super Bowl odds here on fan duel uh the Eagles are still second by kind of a lot at plus 600 then Seattle plus 1,100. The Colts plus 1,100, Kansas City is there as well. Detroit, Baltimore, Denver, and Buffalo after their loss to Houston has dropped to plus 1,300, which is still ahead of New England. That, I think, is an overreaction, probably. Terrible game against the Texans. They were still in position to even win it, but when you have a quarterback that good, I can't quite get that

far down the list. I also thought Kansas City got away with one yesterday. And The whole world may end up regretting, allowing Kansas City to get away with that win. Because look at the AFC. It's just not special. And like, oh, don't do this. Don't do this again. Don't let Kansas City stay alive. I wouldn't sleep on the Ravens, though, all the way back from one in five, dead and buried.

Sure. I mean, their season is starting today now. They're one and oh, I think, in their minds because of they finally climbed over that. And you just don't normally. see one in five teams resurrect like they have yeah that's very impressive of course though when you have an all-time great quarterback then certainly helps just different yep it's just you're playing by a different set of rules there so that's where we're at uh fellas it was you know when i was driving down there to green bay i thought it just what am i doing with my well you know just just come out of

this game with a little bit of progress and you know, I've seen some of you mention Kurt Warner did a film breakdown, didn't love what he saw schematically. I understand that. And, you know, Kurt is a, I think I could call, I interviewed him once for a really long time. And he facetimed me. So I think we're friends. Like I think, right? That's how it works. Social media. Sure. Yeah. Like, so I'll just say my friend, Kurt Warner. He, uh, he's, he's great. I mean, I love, I love, love his breakdowns. I also think that when you're talking about 87 yards and 35 yards lost to sacks

and last year they put 28 on that team and a half. I just, I don't, I don't know how we can conclude that. I think in Arnold on their shoulders. In a bubble, in a bubble, you could say, you know, and he's as good as anyone at breaking it down, didn't love how they did this. This detail might be off. This block is off.

This mistake happens. but the bigger picture, the players on the team, the results that we've seen in the past with this same exact offense, I think we're all in the same spot here. I don't think there's any real other conclusion because this happens with pretty much every game. It's like JTO Sullivan will go through the Bears game and be like, yeah, I mean, maybe it wasn't as bad as the numbers looked.

And here's some things that went well and here's some reason, some stuff went wrong. But when you have six games of this and the best games that you're touting we're 140 yards. It's like, I mean, what are we doing here? So, yeah, again, like, I love what Kurt does. I learned so much about quarterback play. I was in the middle of watching that a little bit earlier. But I think I didn't, I didn't answer it too much with, like, what's successful now. I just think it's having crystal clear clarity is the only success that they could possibly have because nothing else could be that way. And that's why, folks, we're going to mock

I will take quarterback ideas. You know what? I want to start a thing. It starts now and it will end sometime probably in March where I grade your quarterback idea. So we don't have to do it right now, but maybe this will be like a Wednesday or Thursday type of live show thing where maybe Manny and I on Thursday. This is a good idea.

This is live show prep here for Thursday. We can grade people's ideas for the next quarterback. Like you give ideas and we'll give you a threat because. I'm trying to find some ways to make this fun, and it has not been easy so far this season. But you know what has been great is having you two guys help me break it down every single Monday. And unfortunately for you fellas,

you're going to have to keep doing it because I give you guys some money. And that's why. So, you know, place I'd rather be like Marbleeby. Yeah, this is what he was talking about, um, podcasting during a game I want to watch. Where else would you rather be about a four and seven team? Okay. Right here right now. Right here right now. Well, all of you are right here right now with us. And I appreciate that from the audience. This is the second live show of the day. And I also drove from Green Bay this morning. Got up at six in the morning because I had to pick up the dog. So it's been a long day. And I still got to write a column about J.J. McCarthy going into concussion protocol and finish watching the film. So thanks everybody. I really appreciate the questions, comments, thoughts, feelings. And I

appreciate your guys time manny and murph and manny we'll see on thursday murph next monday your column's also up at purple insider dot football along with my takeaway from lambo as well so make sure you check out all that thank you guys appreciate it all right football football football