Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - What if the Vikings win in Las Vegas, what if they lose?

Episode Date: December 8, 2023

Matthew Coller is joined by Will Ragatz and Andrew Krammer to talk about the Vikings' matchup against Vegas and how a victory will be left with shrugs but a loss will come along with much bigger questions and (over) reactions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome into another episode of purple insider Matthew collar here along with will raggetts of Sports Illustrated and Andrew Kramer of the Star Tribune for our weekly Raggetts roundtable inside TCO Performance Center and uh guys uh I feel like it has been a really long time since we've had a football game to preview you interested in this one how are we feeling i was like wait so the raiders is there an angle there for the raiders like that is there any more oh that franchise is still around huh then the las vegas raiders i mean this game feels like so much a game that they should just win or stop bothering that like what do we say about this well i guess max crosby could sack some people

where do you want to take us will because this game it's only interesting because of the josh dobbs it could go in a way where we feel really good about dobbs by the end of this game or really bad but that seems to be the only angle leading into this one that's what i was thinking about too is it's it's one of those games it's been such a roller coaster of a season for the Vikings where early on they had a few tests it was Carolina it was Chicago where I was like all right you got to win this game or I'm done caring about the competitive portion of this season because you're not a serious football team and they won those games barely and then out of nowhere ripped off a five-game winning streak we start to talk about maybe there could be some possibilities for for this being more fun than we thought.

And then you lose to the Broncos, sure, and then you come crashing down, you lose to the Bears in horrific fashion. So now we're back kind of at square one almost where you have to win this game for me to still be interested in talking about, all right, maybe this team gets into the postseason, what can they do? If you lose this game, Vegas just is not a good team. You're not going to be mathematically eliminated or anything like that. It's such a mess of teams at six and six that you can afford to lose it in theory. But when you close with those three NFC North games, going to Cincinnati looks a little bit more difficult after what Jake Browning did on Monday night than I thought it would be.

So you have to win this game. So, yeah, that's that's the interesting thing to me. And then we can talk about Josh Dobbs and whether we agree with the coaching staff decision there. You know, the Vikings have really nothing to gain from this game, but everything to lose. If you lose this game and you're at six and seven, I don't like their chances of being a playoff team or really looking like much of a playoff team. If you have back to back losses against the Bears and then the Raiders. So to me, this is absolutely a game where you just got to get your head back above water, um, make yourself relevant again and have Josh Dobbs feel like you can have that confidence behind what he can do, because I think this

decision really gives them the highest ceiling, even if it gives them a pretty low floor with him at quarterback. Maybe we should play a game of what if they win? What if they lose? I'll start. If they win, I'll go, oh, exactly. Okay. Well, there you go. I mean, maybe, maybe I am, maybe there's disrespect. We wouldn't want that in football. You don't want any disrespect, but maybe I'm disrespecting the Raiders by just saying, ah, I mean, there's nothing on paper. If Jimmy Garoppolo was playing, I'd go, Hey, you know, Jimmy, Jimmy can get hot. Jimmy could play pretty well at times. And, uh, you know, it fell apart there, but I would still be saying, well, he's beaten the Vikings before in the past

and he's got Devante Adams and maybe this is interesting, but it's a backup quarterback who has wins against the giants and jets and has been pretty terrible. Otherwise, I think he took the chargers close to the end and then threw an interception and that was it. So he hasn't been one of those Jake Browning. Wow. This guy suddenly surprises us like a Matt Flynn type of thing. It's really been, Oh no, no. He's like a fourth round rookie that really can't play, but they're just stumbling to the end, maybe hoping that they can get a higher draft pick so they can pick their quarterback. That's where that franchise stands.

So someone try to convince me that if they win, that's really exciting. Someone. I think it's tough to do. I think the Raiders team can't be totally tossed out as being Panthers-level bad because of the star talent on the roster. Like Max Crosby is one of those elite kind of edge rushers that can wreck a game.

The Vikings need Brian O'Neill to be a lot better than he was against Montez sweat. Offensively. It's like you're handing the ball off to Josh Jacobs. You're throwing to Devante Adams and Jacoby Myers. It's a, it's a pretty good offensive line, Colton Miller and,

and those guys like it's, it's a good setup for a quarterback, but he is a fourth-round rookie quarterback. He's not like a Jake Browning who hasn't been playing very much but has been in the NFL for several years and has been learning and biding his time. This guy has struggled a little bit. I think there's been some flashes I've seen on Twitter from Raiders people of accuracy and footwork and things like that, but you're stretching it to be too encouraged by what Aiden O'Connell

has shown so far. So I don't really know that I can drum up of any better of an argument than, hey, you go on the road. It's tough to win NFL games on the road. They got a few good players. Is it on the road? It's going to be a lot of Vikings fans for sure. Yeah, this is the road venue, quote unquote, that just becomes aings fans for sure yeah this is the road venue quote unquote

that just becomes a home venue for everybody um you didn't do it well you didn't sell it to me i don't think you sold it to matt uh so it's hard to sell it to anybody because this game is just about the vikings it's just about josh dobbs it's just about them playing well um one fun fact i did hear that antonio pierce refers to himself in the third person at press conferences. He'll say there's a real learning lesson for AP out there. So really, yeah, I love that. I want to hear those now. You can't lose to the Jeff Saturday slash Antonio Pierce slash. I mean, I'm sure he's, you know, a decent assistant coach and climb his way up there,

but you can't lose to the interim head coach. You just can't. This is about the Vikings. And they've already had their kind of we fired our coach and we're all going to prove that it was the former coach's fault. But when you have this quarterback playing, even if your talent is decent in other places, they're not a roster that you look at as having really many advantages in any areas against the Vikings. Like if we went position by position, even at at quarterback the Vikings are here talking about well maybe we'll bench him still quite the advantage but Josh Dobbs over a no Connell

maybe they're running back but it's not like Josh Jacobs has had a good year their offensive line is just okay but it's certainly not great how many Raiders defensive players that aren't Max Crosby can you name right now off the top of your head yeah they cut one of them marcus former tcu safety morig javon morig yeah their leading tackler and interceptor is robert spillane the linebacker yep yep i i have seen him uh because you know i just watched a raiders game and he had an interception like oh okay uh no but their defense actually has improved and it's not a laughing stock but it's like middle of the league for them. That's like a championship considering how bad Raiders defenses have been in past years. But even the Vikings have a better defense.

They have a better offense. They have a better coaching situation. They have a better franchise vibe overall from one that has essentially just been on fire since like 2003. Yeah. I mean, and they have a better home field advantage here with half of the state of Minnesota flying out to Las Vegas this week. And that's why I, the, what if they lose part of this is a lot easier to talk about. What if they lose is do not use the word playoffs to me the rest of the way. Don't use the word bridge quarterback to me the rest of the way. Like it's feels unfair and unfortunate to say,

Josh Dobbs, if you can't do it in this week, then I just don't buy into you as any sort of future option. And they should play Jaron Hall the rest of the way to put it all on one game, because of course you can have one bad game and yet that also does feel fair because the priors matter the fact that the guy is a journeyman matters and the fact that he threw four interceptions in his last game and his coach is talking about benching him all those things matter and so there is a if you lose then we just need to start talking about Jaden Daniels and the quarterback situation for the future.

We could see a quarterback switch in this game, potentially, if Josh Dobbs doesn't turn around quickly. Yeah, we could. I mean, Kevin O'Connell has left the door open for that. I think with this quarterback decision, I agree with it. I mean, I think that this is the move. They're not thinking about, all right, let's take a look at Jaron Hall, see if he might be the guy for next year.

They're thinking about winning this game, and I understand that. You're 6-6. You've had some unexpected circumstances being without Justin Jefferson, losing your starting quarterback, but there's still, if you can get back to that level against Atlanta and against New Orleans, there's still some friskiness of maybe you get in and maybe you can win a game or something like that. I don't think it's likely at all with what we saw from Josh Dobbs

against the Bears and even against the Broncos. But I agree with the decision to go back to him. I just think so many people have wanted to see Jaron Hall, and that's been all over my Twitter mentions, and I understand it to some degree because it's the unknown. It's the – like you brought up Kyle Sloater. People always want to see something that they don't know, and it's exciting. He's the unknown. It's the, like, you brought up Kyle Slaughter. People always want to see something that they don't know. And it's exciting.

He's a rookie. But, I mean, Aiden O'Connell is a fourth-round rookie. He's playing like a fourth-round rookie. Jaron Hall was taken in the fifth round. Like, probabilistically, what are the chances that he is going to come in and play really well? I just don't think that's very high. I think people will point to, like, that drive against the Falcons

where he didn't do a whole lot of throwing to guys that weren't wide open i just passed to madison though yeah i mean he looked at him for me he looked off the safety or whatever but madison was wide open it's i'm not trying to like discredit jaron hall or say i don't think there's any chance he could be somewhat interesting in the future maybe but for this week i think you can't throw out what dobbs did those first two games because of how poorly he played in the last game. So I agree with the decision here. And then but then if he struggles, yeah, be quick with the hook and go to Nick Mullins or go to Jaron Hall. Let's see somebody else, because you can't just let it continue to kind of slide.

Yeah, this is about what Josh Dobbs can do for you on any given play, which is to save it, which is if Ed Ingram, Garrett Bradbury, somebody blows a block, this guy can spin out of it and make something happen. And it could also be just an atrocious play that turns into a turnover. So they need to try to ride that wave and try to kind of find the middle ground and tow it. And because this defense is playing so well, the water level is pretty low that they need to get up to in terms of just 20 points, 25 points to win a game. I'm not shocked that they didn't consider Jaron Hall, that Kevin O'Connell basically said, we went and watched Nick Mullen's tape. We went and watched Josh Dobbs tape. They didn't make any mention of saying, you know, we really took a long, hard consideration of putting the rookie back in there. I think that's because they understand the best chances to win are the two guys that have the most NFL experience. You've got a lot of weapons right now that it's a disservice

to Jordan Addison's development. It's a disservice to Justin Jefferson's youth and window to put a rookie in there right now and just say, well, we're going to figure out what we got in this fifth rounder because it looks more like Dorian Thompson Robinson. It looks more like Aiden O'Connell more often than not um and honestly i think it would look that way with jaron hall just i don't think it would look good so uh it's going to be dobbs until it's not and and i wouldn't be shocked that if we see an early turnover uh they've had what five six opening drives with turnovers in in this season at least if they have a seventh i wouldn't be shocked if we see a switch that quickly just because of how on edge they are about needing to get this back on track.

And Mullins is the QB, too, in this guy. I think that's been made pretty clear, and people will maybe be surprised by that. But the only reason Jaron Hall started that game against the Falcons is because he was literally the only quarterback. Nick Mullins was hurt. Kirk Cousins was hurt. Josh Dobbs had gotten acquired like four days earlier. So that's why hall was in there it'll be mullins if dobbs syncs it up in the first half even yeah i don't want to

declare that jaron hall could never be a good nfl quarterback uh without seeing more but i think when you take the accumulation of what they've seen in practice a famous head coach once said, I see him every day in practice. And I think without saying that Kevin O'Connell has also said that like he's seen a huge sample size of Jaron Hall and doesn't feel like he is ready to be in this discussion yet. Probably if he had played against Atlanta, we would have a better idea of what it looked like. And maybe we underappreciated him. I don't know. I think they were just trying to like survive that game and get through until they could play dobbs that was the way they talked about it too they talked about acquiring a guy who had been starting and was real smart so he could learn the offense real fast to get into the game like that's how it

was discussed when he got here that we expected him to be the starter going forward anyway. So Jaron Hall shouldn't really be part of that conversation unless they are out of the playoff race. But in my mind, you lose this game, you're out of the playoff race. I saw a stat from PFF's Timo Riske today that if the Vikings get to nine, they have like a 90% chance to get in. If they're at eight, it's like 30% in terms of wins. And if they lose to the Raiders, you can't. If they're at eight, it's like 30%. So that in terms of wins and if they lose to the Raiders, you can't convince me they're getting to nine with two games against Detroit and a game against green Bay mixed in. And as you mentioned, that team in Cincinnati has Jamar chase and lots of other weapons and playmakers that could beat you as well. If they lose, how hyperbolic do we

want to get about what kind of catastrophe it is? Do we want to go, ah, well, you know, it was fun while it lasted. Do we want to go, this season was a waste and we should have tanked? Wait, that's been me. How, where on the scale would we want to go if they're not able to beat the Raiders? I think it would be, it would be a bad look for just the team that's gone out on the field the last few weeks. It'd be a wasted opportunity, really, because when Kirk Cousins went down, the season sort of was like lost our starting quarterback who was playing at a really high level but with the way the defense has played and with the way that some of the pieces around josh dobbs on the offense are playing christian derisaw and jordan addison tj hockinson getting justin jefferson back now like it would just be kind of a shame if you can't go beat the raiders and keep your season competitive for at least one more week um and you lose that

game to the bears and you're just looking back at the season and you go back early in the season. You're like, man, if we didn't turn the ball over three, four times a game, like what if, and I think it would be really frustrating if you're on the Vikings

defense and you play well again, and they just can't find any sort of rhythm on offense because the quarterback can't stop turning it over or complete the simple dig route within the rhythm and timing of the offense. Things like that. It would be frustrating to be like Josh Metellus and be like, I'm playing so well this year and this defense is playing so well and we can't do it. I'm not going to say like, oh, they they should have tanked as soon as Kirk went down because I don't know. You never know in this league. Like, I think that how fun that Falcons game was

and that Saints game was. You can't totally forget about that. I think you could make an argument for sure that maybe they should have done that, but I think it would just be kind of a missed opportunity, which a lot of people would not feel great about. Folks, is there any better way to spend the holidays than attending sports?

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Download GameTime today. Last-minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. I think it was Caleb Evans that mentioned that those last three games, two against the Lions, one against the Packers, kind of already look like playoff games for them, and I would argue that that starts already this Sunday because if you don't win these next two to get to that point to prove that you belong in that wildcard race or in the NFC playoffs, I think you can already write yourself off at this

point if you lose on Sunday. And I don't think we can get too hyperbolic about it because if they lose, I think you still kind of found something in the development of these defenders and some of the talent you acquired in Josh Dobbs, maybe a Dalton Reisner for the future. I think there's still something to that. But at the same time, this loss can be everything about just where this season is headed in the next five weeks because it could be nowhere. And I think that you would have to toe a line between saying, did you mismanage what you thought you could do with Josh Dobbs? Like when Kirk goes down 90% of the time, your season is over when you're starting quarterback goes down. It is not a coincidence that no team above the six seed in the NFL right now

has an injured quarterback except for Trevor Lawrence, but he'll come back and he's been healthy the whole season. Everybody else's quarterbacks are healthy, but you get Josh Dobbs. You say, Daniel Hunter's going to stay. We're not going to trade him away. And we're going to say, no, no, we're the exception. We're going to make the playoffs. We are different than all the teams that lose their quarterbacks and miss the post season. And if you lose this game and you're basically out of this thing, or at least for all intents and purposes, then I don't know how you don't go back to that moment and say,

did you guys really think that you were going to be different than everyone else? But it seemed like there was a lot of pressure on Koisi Adafo-Mensa from Kevin O'Connell, from the locker room, coming off of that Packers win. And this is just how much things change in a week, right? Like if they win, we're like, oh, okay. Playoffs are still on carry on, carry on. None of this that I'm about to say matters, but it's very similar to 2020 where they won the game to go two and five after beating the Packers. Then they went, oh, we could beat Carolina. We should, right. And it's going to have that same vibe. And then,

Hey, look where you're drafting. That will have to be part of the conversation. If they don't win that you so overestimated yourself. I also wanted to ask you guys where Justin Jefferson fits into this, because if you don't win with Justin Jefferson, then obviously they should trade him. No, that's a joke. Uh, but if you lose, you have to keep playing for the playoffs you really can't switch to jaron hall even if i think that's the right move because you have to keep playing as hard as you can with just the jefferson right yeah you definitely do i mean he his presence coming back is going to be a big story of these next five weeks and how he can kind of fit in with josh dobbs i think there's some potential there of,

of Jefferson who has said that he's never really played with a mobile quarterback. I mean, Joe Burrow a little bit more than Kirk cousins, but like some of those times when Dobbs spins out of something and is, is rolling around, it's kind of the scramble situation. Like Jefferson is a really instinctive receiver.

It seems like he could, he'll be able to get open in some of those situations. But yeah, if you, if you lose this game, you have to keep trying trying and I agree with you I think if they lose they should put in Jaron Hall maybe and try to see what they have for the future but I don't think that's even a possibility at this point I just think I don't you can look back certainly if they lose and be like maybe we should have handled things differently at the deadline I just don't

know how differently things would have turned out anyways with how razor thin the margin seems to be with these Vikings games, no matter who they're playing or who's that quarterback or like there's always one score games. I don't know. Maybe you trade Daniel Hunter. Maybe that costs you one win or something. I don't know. Like as great as Daniel Hunter has been, I don't think you trade him and then suddenly everything falls apart and you're losing every game by 20 i mean maybe if you the argument would be you play jaron hall and you don't even try to win games but i don't know how you sell that to a locker room that was part of a five game winning streak i guess some of that happened after the trade deadline but i don't know like i don't know how much it changes things anyways to the point of oh they're gonna end up picking 19th when like i would rather be picking 11th i don't there's so much talent on the roster I just at certain spots I don't know if you end up 11th without just blatantly tanking which you can't really do I I think the Vikings might and this is just my guess they might have the general manager who would embrace that kind of thinking of like hey ripping everything apart rebuilding

seems like the more you know easiest way to go with the highest probability of us rebuilding to a champion but i don't think with the head coach with the culture that they're building i think that's just the antithesis of what they're trying to do here and i think o'connell kind of in what the wilfs really want kind of aligns there the wilfs want to be relevant they want to be what is it the competitive rebuild right they want to continue to try to do the Steelers way of, hey, is it working for Pittsburgh right now? I don't know. I don't really think so. But they want to continue to try to be in that conversation year in and year out and be considered winners.

And I think this is the route they're going to go. And I don't think there was ever any consideration of truly ripping this apart. I think if the Kirk injury maybe happened earlier in the year, maybe, but I just think this is one of those franchises that's not run by a Bidwell, not run by a Tepper, not run by somebody who is a little more knee-jerk and probably wanting to just rip it to shreds and start over. Yeah. And I totally understand all the context of that. And as you mentioned, you've had all these players develop and so forth and you want to create winning culture and everything all that stuff but if you trade the neil hunter no you don't immediately go whatever 4 and 12 or 4 and 13 but you would have a second round pick

maybe even potentially a high second round pick depending on who traded for him or at least another one to potentially help you trade up when you're looking for your quarterback and the Steelers are a great example because once their all-time great quarterback got old and ends up retiring then they have to draft 20th to take Kenny Pickett and when they draft 20th like that back end of the first round doesn't really have a great history unless you land on Lamar Jackson, which is a totally unique situation where the NFL completely miscalculated the man's ability to throw a football. But Kenny Pickett was a 24 year old, small hands, mediocre college quarterback who

Jordan Addison made look pretty decent for a year and was never really a great prospect. And that's not where you really want to live is, well, I guess we'll just that guy, cause he's the one there and we desperately need a quarterback. So is it going to be the difference between if you draft 12th, but also have another second round draft pick trade up to what, right? I mean, it was ninth to first last year. You're not getting to first this year, but could you go ninth, 10th to fifth to take Jaden Daniels, right? Like it does matter.

And that's the most second guessable thing that we're going to do the same way that we look back and go, they could have sucked for luck, but they had to win that one game on Christmas Eve or whatever that, oh, you all celebrated the culture for that one, right? It's just a hard argument to defeat. If, and if they win this game, then I won't bring it up for a while, but if they end up missing the playoffs, it has to be mentioned that when we get to draft day and they're drafted in 18th, that that's a pretty hard place to move up from, uh, not impossible though. So, uh, anyhow, you guys excited for the game? Does that

make you more excited? What, what do we more excited what what do we think of what do we think of the process that kevin o'connell has gone through with josh dobbs here to try and get the most out of josh dobbs should we a be second guessing o'connell why were you having him run the kirk cousins offense against chicago anyway or should we be saying getting together with Dobbs communicating with Dobbs working to his strengths speaks well of the future with Kevin O'Connell and quarterbacks which angle would you take I mean it's a cop out I think it's both I don't know like when watching that tape it was weird that the way that they really didn't use him uh in the dual threat kind of mode that he was against the Falcons and it wasn't the Saints I don't know how much of that was a bad game plan from the Vikings,

how much of it was the bears defense kind of dictating things and not really allowing that. I think it was probably both. But yeah, I mean, Kevin O'Connell sitting down with Josh Dobbs after that game, watching film that can only help when, when you're just trying to get on the same page.

I think that's a big thing is just trying to get in each other's head and think, all right, here's how I'm seeing this. Here's the intent behind this. Here's what you want to be looking at. Here's the timing of it. And it's hard to get up to speed on those things and make up for so much lost time. Like Kirk Cousins was just, I mean, not only has he been in the league for a lot longer than Josh Dobbs, but he had been in the system for a lot longer.

And he was really understanding the why on every play and getting, you know, tying his feet to his eyes and going through the reads and making the right decision. And it's a tough thing to catch up on when you don't have all those reps banked and going back to OTAs and in training camp and an entire season last year. Like it's going to be hard, but I think it's possible to just try to get to a place where you're competent in that area of playing quarterback. And you have to get there where you can hit the simple slant route or a simple in route to Jordan Addison and not throw it hard and behind him. And it ends up being an interception like that. You just have to be able to get there. And then if you can get there, I think Dobbs still offers some of that magic upside with his legs. If you

can incorporate some more of that and not have him maybe be spinning out and turning his back to the end zone you're going towards and trying to do crazy things like we saw the first couple of games, but step up in the pocket and find the lane and get out of it and roll to your right and, and find Justin Jefferson downfield. Like I think they have to adjust the game plan a little bit, try to fit what Josh Dobbs does well. And then go from there and see if you can't kind of find a little bit um try to fit what josh dobbs does well um and

then go from there and see if you can't kind of find a little bit of that magic again i think from a coaching perspective it's important to remember how we kind of got to that point on monday night against the bears where they they have his first start against the saints they do the little zone read for the first time on the third down and we're thinking hey look at this they're actually doing it and then they go into denver on sund Sunday night and the first drive they try to get him out on a trick play and he gets drilled and everyone's saying why are you running your quarterback against a psychotic person and Kareem Jackson which yeah in a given situation probably wasn't the best call but then they kind of tightened up against the Chicago and said you know what we're

going to do we're not going to run them we're going to kind of just sit against the Chicago and said, you know, we're going to do, we're not going to run them. We're going to kind of just sit back, make them a pocket passer. Chicago leaned into that. They played more of a five wide front and tried to keep them in the pocket. So that meant that even the improvisational stuff was limited from Josh because the only place he could escape was directly backward, which as we've seen is not always the greatest. So I think the coaches need to find that balance just as Josh is trying to find in terms of a risk-taking perspective of how much do they put him in the line of fire? They're not used to doing this. They didn't have a mobile quarterback before. Um, so I think this is a learning thing. And O'Connell said the one, he says so much at the podium, but the one line that really stood out to me was when he said, this happened really fast for Josh, but it also happened fast for us

in terms of him coming in here and being the new guy of our offense and us having to figure out how we coach around him. So yeah, there were some growing pains on that Monday night loss that was just as much on the coaching staff as it was on Josh for how ineffective they were against Chicago. And I think they're going to lean more into his mobility moving forward. It's just, they're going to be lucky that Kareem Jackson is not playing on the other side. How much will it shape how you feel about Kevin O'Connell? What we see over these last five games, because up until last week, I hadn't seen anyone except for just the fringe person with, you know, Kirk cousins avatar or whatever. That's Vikes fan 477 but normal people i haven't seen any of those talking about kevin o'connell and they're you know there's a little like should i hear the hardball like okay

all right everybody take a deep breath but it was really the first time coming out of chicago where i saw a lot of people even rational people saying what like should we believe in o'connell as much as we did a couple of weeks ago? Or was that Atlanta thing just kind of a one-off with him? And was last year's smoke and mirrors? It's crazy how fast this stuff happens in the NFL, how narratives change, how feelings about people change. Even Josh Dobbs, where he has one bad game and the coach is talking about potentially benching him. But that's sort of the nature of the business. If they do lose this game, if they do sputter down the stretch and finish with seven wins or something,

how is everyone going to look at Kevin O'Connell if that happens? I think O'Connell can kind of only look impressive here. I don't think it wouldn't be great if they really continue to struggle and you're thinking, all right, where are these adjustments from, from this offensive guru? And,

and why is this not working a little bit better? But for the most part, at least, at least this is how I feel about it. Like if they do turn this around and start playing well with Dobbs and, and win these games and get in the postseason, like that's really impressive from O'Connell standpoint. And I was extremely impressed by what he was able to do just against the Falcons,

throwing with Dobbs thrown into the fire there and, you know, talking him through these things in the headset up to 15 seconds and the first half against the Saints. Like I think the circumstances of Kirk Cousins going down make it hard for me to look too unfavorably on O'Connell if this doesn't go great. The one thing I will say with O'Connell that's been kind of frustrating, I don't know if baffling is the right word, is just the continued lack of that killer instinct to put teams away. And it's happened a bunch this year. It the bears it happened against the saints where you're you have the lead you have the ball you're up one score and you choose to hand it off and make the other team burn their timeouts and trust your defense and i get it to some degree especially without kirk cousins although it happened with

kirk cousins too that you're trusting your defense which has played really really well you're trying to be risk averse i get it but when you put so much on your defense, which has played really, really well. You're trying to be risk averse. I get it. But when you put so much on your defense, like they've done a bunch this year where they're holding the field goal, field goal, field goal. And I just hold them to one more field goal or get one more stop. Like that's so much to ask of a defense that has played well, even best defense in the league.

That'd be a lot to ask of them to keep going out there and keep going out there and not give up a blown coverage, 36 yard throw to DJ more. Those things happen. So I would like to see Kevin O'Connell, and it's a little different when your quarterback has thrown four interceptions in the game already, but in general, when you're up, just try to put a team away. Play to win. Throw the ball a little bit. You can design concepts where there's some easy completions that will then still keep the clock running, but also have a chance for maybe some yak. Like, I just, the two handoffs in a row to Alex Madison that are inevitably going to get two yards, and then a third and eight where you throw a screen.

Like, let's just, let's be a little more aggressive than that. That's my one Kevin O'Connell rant. I think you're right. I think this season has already been a success for Kevin O'Connell, for the Vikings, and they get the excuse of the Kirk Cousins injury. But that means that the expectations are so much lower that a win at Atlanta is going to be looked back at as one of the greatest moments of this season because of what Josh did and what Kevin O'Connell did coaching him through their plays as he's up at the line. Those are the kind of things that show how great of a coach he is, even if they put together a bad game plan, which happens, happens with Sean McVay, happens with Kyle Shanahan, all of these coaches. So I think we're coming off probably as

one of his worst moments of the season. Even if they continue to have some bad moments in the division to end the season, I think there's going to be a lot of reasons for that. Namely the fact that you don't have your starting quarterback. And Collar, I think you said it, I can't remember which game it was, but it was one of these NFL games where there was a backup quarterback in play and people were questioning the head coach. And it's like, that's what it looks like when the backup quarterback's in there. Then the head coach is all of a sudden a good coach is going to get questioned about what he's doing because it's not going to look right or well. Vikings fans need to expect that. And I think the rest of the NFL expects that maybe more than Vikings fans do from this team right now, even though they're six and six and still in the hunt. This team is just going to be kind of a

fringe relevant team, no matter what Josh does, because he's not going to come in and continue to play lights out every single week. Folks, I hope you've enjoyed listening to us talk about prize picks this year, but if you've missed it, here's how it works. You go to prizepicks.com and it is simple. You pick either more or less between two and six players stat projections, and that's it. Now you're playing. So if it's X number of yards for a quarterback, you just decide, are they going to throw for more or less than that number of yards? But it works with lots of different options, receiving yards, touchdowns, even field goals, all sorts of sports as well. PrizePicks.com slash purple.

Go there, use the code purple for the first deposit match up to $100. One of the reasons I like PrizePicks, it is very simple to use. You see how we do it on the show real quick and easy. And then we talk about our picks and also not expensive either. You can turn $10 into $250 by nailing just a couple of picks. So go to prizepix.com slash purple, the code purple, daily fantasy sports made easy so i think uh you guys are being extremely rational in an irrational world about this and look i mean when dobbs first took over or actually it was going to be jaron hall we did this very round table and my sentiment was everybody might want to like just prepare

themselves for what backup quarterback land looks like because it's been a long time and the last time you saw it it was case keenum and minneapolis miracle and that almost never happens and that's why that season was a miracle and they had the number one defense in the nfl and i think rushing passing third downs like everything right uh this defense is good it's not quite that but i i was trying to like okay it's been a while since we've all seen this but it could get pretty rough out there and then they win those couple games and well maybe i'm wrong i don't know and then the last few weeks it's come back to it's regressed back to that but i i feel like in this nfl world

the excuses just don't fly and even if if they're exactly right, like it's a backup quarterback and you lost your guy, you were never going to just, you know, run rough shot through the league and end up in the NFC championship. Wade Wilson wasn't walking through the door to take you there, but that's not how anyone thinks in football. It's, oh, there's an L next to that game. did everything wrong like you know you just uh are the worst coach ever and everything that i mean that's what we saw against the bears and it was a bad coaching job against the bears but in order to lose enough games to completely miss the playoffs and fail in these final five games it might have to be a bad coaching job i

don't know like the next two games against backup quarterbacks, you feel like you should win. I just, I feel like if they end up seven and 10 after being six and four, that we're going to get a lot of, whoa, is Kevin O'Connell not the coach that we thought now? I don't think any of us feel that way, but I do think that the fans will feel that way.

I think that'll be a narrative for sure. Fans, maybe various websites. Like I think that will, that will have that way. I think that'll be a narrative for sure. Fans, maybe various websites like I think that will that will have various websites. Yeah, I think that will be discussed and that will be a talking point. The most important thing is I don't think that anybody in the Vikings building will think that way from ownership down to Kweisi and the other coaches and it's been players unless it really is a disaster like and they start losing games by more than three points which they haven't really done all year especially the next couple weeks like yeah you can maybe make

an argument there but I think Kevin O'Connell they could lose out and he has earned the right to have some belief in the way he has built this thing, the trajectory that he has the Vikings on. And he has earned the right to have a very, very big say, the biggest say in choosing a quarterback next year if they are in position to do so. Yeah, and as far as being on the outside and saying if one little thing were different and trying to pick and choose, if they just didn't drop five passes a game to start the season, if they didn't

fumble three times a game, each of those first three games, like the point is like, if they didn't have those kinds of mistakes, a couple of wins or losses, they might've been what would have been six and two or five and three at that point when Kirk goes down, like they had to climb out of a bad hole. And they, since then they beat San Francisco with Kirk, and then they went on to have, I think, an impressive win against the Falcons, obviously, without him. It's been some good coaching jobs, and I think with Brian Flores, no matter what happens, that's been a success, obviously.

It's just a question of can they get this offense going, and I don't think it has to take a bad coaching job for them to tank if josh dobbs goes out there and throws two picks in the first half and they switch to mullins and then mullins gets hurt and they have to go in and go to dobbs like if there's more quarterback chaos if there's more just awful performances like could anybody have predicted the way alexander madison was going to play this year like it's just been completely awful the way tj hawkinson started the year was completely awful. Like they've had some individual performances that have just been baffling this year that,

that are expected that were paid to be different. And that's, to me, there are some moments where it's not just about coaching. It's about those guys out there just playing better. Yeah. And we've, we've returned to also Ed Ingram watch a little bit against the bears.

That was not very good. We've kind of forgot about that for a while, but it was he didn't give brian o'neill a lot of help you know again you guys are being very reasonable very reasonable reasonable what well fans aren't reasonable but it's not all your fault fans it's also owners aren't reasonable either uh and i mean even with kevin o'connell he basically admitted to doing the same thing after Chicago that all fans do anyway, where he was so mad about the loss that he blamed the quarterback and was overreacting to be like, I'll play Mullins. And then he like calmly goes back and looks at the tape and be like, no, I won't. I can't, there's no option there. But I just mean that everyone, all of us are susceptible to what we just saw reacting to, as opposed to trying to look at the full landscape. And that also brings me to the Kirk cousins element of this, because I think if they have a bad ending to the season, then Kevin O'Connell is going to want his quarterback back, knowing that they won 13 games, knowing as well as Kirk Cousins was playing at the beginning of the season.

But if they win, I think that might be a little bit different. Like winning buys you just more patience. If you can get to nine and eight, if you could get into the playoffs, think about Seattle last year, they got throttled in the playoffs. But what did everyone say about Seattle? Hey man, I didn't expect that team to make the playoffs. So good for them. Hey, those Vikings, they lost their quarterback, made the playoffs.

That's the important thing. Then I think you have more flexibility and more belief to kind of do what you want there at the quarterback position as opposed to oh my god we missed the playoffs we need to get our quarterback back even if ironically making the playoffs gives you a worse draft pick than than missing yeah i i understand what you're saying with with that element i actually think this is a bold prediction i actually think josh jobs is going to play well on sunday i just think like you you didn't want to overreact to, and we were all guilty of this. I was guilty of this. I tweeted like during this first half against the Saints, like what if Josh

Dobbs is just the quarterback for the next five years? That's how good he looked. You don't want to overreact to how well he was playing at first against the Falcons and Saints, because that was not sustainable spinning out of eight broken tackles and launching a ball off one leg to TJ Atkinson. You also don't, I think, want to overreact to what happened against the bears. And yes, there were four interceptions. A lot,

a few of them were deflected. One of them was on a fourth down. He did not play well by any means. I think it's kind of a pendulum here. I think he's going to swing back and play well, and then maybe we'll start to overreact again. And then he'll play poorly against the Bengals or something like that. Is it really funny though? Cause you're like, I would, I'm always rational we'll start to overreact again. And then he'll play poorly against the Bengals or something like that. Is it really funny, though?

Because you're like, I would. I'm always rational. I would never overreact. But I did shave. I love him to my chest in the first half of the Saints. I'm more rational on Thursdays than I am on Sundays. Well, since you're making predictions, I assume that means you think the Vikings will win. I do.

I think the Vikings will win. I think both teams are coming off a bye, but they rest it up. They get Jefferson back. They get a Caleb Evans back, which can't kind of be overlooked. Makai Blackman slides back into that kind of bit player, third cornerback role. And Evans might see a fair amount of Devontae Adams just with kind of the size speed profile that he brings

uh yeah i think the vikings win this game and i think alexander madison will not get his first rushing touchdown of the season i'm on i'm on that watch by the way i looked up the on stat head great great website um you can do the custom searches he's getting up there for most carries in a season without a rushing touchdown like each week, he's climbing that leaderboard. So we'll see if it happens. Josh Dobbs might have a rushing touchdown, though. He probably will. Fourth or fifth of the season.

In these seven games without Justin Jefferson, the Vikings allowed over 21 points or over 325 yards just once in those seven games. They were playing lights out defensively. Brian Flores' group got better when Justin Jefferson went out, when the team needed them to get better. I think Aiden O'Connell is going to have a bad day against Brian Flores. I'll continue to make these predictions on behalf of the Vikings defense or on them when they go up against such lesser quarterbacks. I think it's going to be different when it is a Jamar Chase the following week, when it is a Jared Goff and Ben Johnson offense in Detroit. But in this matchup, I have a hard time seeing the Vikings not winning in a way that they were comfortably winning in

times against Carolina or against Chicago when it was Tyson Bajan. Well, I do think that Aiden O'Connell will have to practice his silent count because the Viking takeover there for the fans is going to make it very difficult on a rookie quarterback and is also, I think, really deflating to the team. And this one, I mean, this my expectation is this is completely purple, similar to what we saw in 2019 with the Chargers, where they just took over the stadium entirely. So that's going to be pretty tough for them. I have no belief. Their last 17 plus point win. That's right. Yeah. Well, this might over the stadium entirely. So that's going to be pretty tough for them. I have no belief. Their last 17-plus point win. That's right. Well, this might be the next one.

I don't have a whole lot of respect for the Raiders, and I think that all this effort and all this work to get Josh Dobbs doing the things he's comfortable with will work. And, oh, by the way, Justin Jefferson. I mean, for the record, I think it's very reasonable to think they could go 3-2, but we haven't really discussed the scenario if they don't and all the things we could potentially be saying if they don't so that was the main subject but i still think they have a very good

chance to make the playoffs it's gonna be a tough one for ap sorry for a we didn't talk about just jefferson that much but like that's because he's just really good yeah and it's gonna help their offense to get him back i'm very curious to see how it looks with how like the Raiders defend him. And if you're Josh Dobbs, when what's the line where you, you know, throw into double coverage because he's the best receiver on the planet. So that'll be interesting to watch. But just Jefferson is very good. He's helpful. Isn't that why some people make media careers by like criticizing LeBron? Because what else is there to say about lebron like whoa dang that man's good so if you're not like oh he missed a free throw he's the worst he'll never be jordan like i found that with justin jefferson where the first year was like

oh can this guy really be this good and then once he was it was like all right what else we got what else we would uh that's. Now we'll move on. But I guess that's the nature of the biz. So anyway, thank you all for listening slash watching the Ragged's Roundtable. We will do it again next week, and we'll see where we stand. I'm guessing back very much in the playoff race. But if it's not, then we will have a lot to discuss. All right. Thanks, everybody.

We will catch you next time.