Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - What will the Chargers do in the draft with their pick right before the Vikings?

Episode Date: April 6, 2021

Matthew Coller opens the show by briefly touching on Jeff Gladney's arrest and then talks with Los Angeles Chargers reporter Daniel Popper about what will happen with the No. 13 overall pick now that the Carolina Panthers have acquired Sam Darnold. Does that mean the Chargers will trade out of the pick? Will they draft the offensive lineman? Will they take a corner? Plus how will Brandon Staley change the Chargers' defense and will Justin Herbert be a star? Daniel certainly thinks so. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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with Drizzly or Instacart, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, presented by Scout Logistics and Symbol, your stock market for sports. Matthew Collar here. Sam Ekstrom is off this week. He has a very positive life event that I'll let him bring up on the show or on social media if he wants to. But Paul Hodowanek, previously known as Intern Paul, but now is a grown-up, and is going to fill in for Sam this week on our podcast and on the website purpleinsider.com as well.

What is up, Paul? Not much. Wasn't expecting to talk to you until tomorrow, but we've got some breaking news to talk about. Right. I figured we would touch on this first, and then when we do our whole podcast tomorrow, we'll dive into a lot of different things that are going on,

and this will be a part of it. But I wanted to make sure that we talked about the big Vikings news before my interview with Daniel Popper from the Athletic who covers the Los Angeles Chargers because I just felt like ignoring this would be a bad idea. So I appreciate your time on short notice here and then we'll talk longer tomorrow. But this comes from J.D. Miles who is a news reporter in Dallas. He says that he has learned from sources that cornerback Jeff Gladney has turned himself into the Dallas County Jail after he posted $10,000 bond on a charge of third-degree

felony family assault. And the details of this are honestly very disturbing. It involves him and a 22-year-old woman. He is accused of hitting the accuser with closed fists, choking her, and dragging her by the hair while driving with her outside of the vehicle. And I guess my reaction to this, Paul, is A, that the accusations here against Jeff Gladney are horrifying, and B, that I think that we're not going to see Jeff Gladney on the field for a while. I don't want to jump the gun here. I don't want to get into, you know, the details of accusations and whether this could be true or that could be true, because we're only seeing just this report about Jeff Gladney. And to be honest, when you see something this terrible, you hope that there is some way that it is not true. But also, we could be talking about a Ray Rice type of situation here where Jeff Gladney is suspended indefinitely by the NFL. in a safe and responsible way, Paul, when it comes to a player who has been arrested on charges like

this of domestic violence that are so concerning? Yeah, I mean, it's horrible. It's hard to talk about the football aspects of it, what it means for the Vikings, what it means for the offseason, any of that. That's very ancillary to what's happening right now. I think the tweets that I think probably most Vikings fans have seen at this point said he's facing up to or between two and ten years in prison. So this isn't, you know, this isn't just like a fine or a simple something, something simple. This is very, very serious. And the accusations, like you said, are horrible. And in my eyes, he shouldn't, if they're true, he shouldn't be playing football again. As we've seen from many instances, it's hard to know right now with, we don't know much information other than that. He has turned himself in and we know the basic

details. But to speculate further than that would seem a little bit reckless at this point. Yeah, that's right. And that's why I didn't want to try to go too far into depths that were over our head with this situation to start the show. And why I just wanted to connect with you quickly on it before we got into my interview talking about the 17th game that will happen. It just seemed inappropriate to jump right into that without mentioning that this is going on. Some of the tweets that I got right away were, OK, now they're going to draft another cornerback yet. And I think we've got to see how this plays out over the next couple of weeks before we can have an understanding of that. Yeah, it's it puts the league in a precarious position in how they address these things. And we've obviously seen them recently take a renewed focus in social justice for things that are happening. So it would feel tone deaf to maybe

shift away from that for another topic that is very prominent in society today for them to shift into one and go away from the other. So yeah. I mean, I think that if they're going to say that we are going to hold our players responsible for these types of things, then even accusations against Jeff Gladney, where he's turned himself in, I mean, that meets the standard. And so now the NFL has a choice of whether they want to immediately suspend Jeff Gladney, if they want to wait and see until details come out, if they want to just do the thing where it's suspended indefinitely and then we see what happened I don't remember how the Chad Wheeler thing played out recently where he had some issue very similar

where his girlfriend tweeted out pictures of things that he had done to her and then his team released them and I haven't heard any more from the NFL since then I think that he was just released but if the Minnesota Vikings decided after more details come out of this that they're going to move on from Jeff Gladney and just sort of say look I know you were a first round pick I know that we have you know big plans for you in the future or had big plans for you in the future but we can't have this as part of our organization. That would not surprise me at all if Mike Zimmer decided to do that, because one of Mike Zimmer's big things since arriving in Minnesota was to try to change a culture of,

you know, a place where this stuff was happening a lot. I mean, the reporters from back in the day used to talk about how like every time there was a bye week or something, it was check the police blotter. And that has not been the case under Zimmer. There was the Mike Hughes and J. Ron curse incident of, you know, a DUI with a gun in the car. And so, you know, I guess this is the second one in a couple of years, but this is much more serious. Not that that's not serious, but this is much more serious. Not that that's not serious, but this is much more serious in terms of harming someone else. So we'll just wait and see what happens. And as we go along, I'm sure that we'll discuss exactly what might transpire in terms of the cornerback position

and so forth. And maybe we've already seen it with the signing of Mackenzie Alexander. Yeah, I think so. And I think it mentioned it was April 2nd that this happened. So I'm not sure they would have brought in anyone prior to this happening, if I have my facts correct. But yeah, we will have to wait and see. All right. Thanks for your quick jumping on here, Paul. And now we'll get to my interview with Daniel Popper. We'll discuss this more tomorrow when Paul and I record the full podcast and we'll go from there. So here's Daniel Popper of The Athletic on the Los Angeles Chargers. All right, we welcome into the show. He covers the Los Angeles Chargers for The Athletic, Daniel Popper. What is up, Daniel? Not too much. Just got vaccinated, feeling very excited, very, very excited. So we were talking about before we started recording,

you're going to get some energy right now because I am on cloud nine. That's good. Good for you. I didn't know that that was something that the vaccination did was get you jacked up to talk football. But I mean, if that's the case, then everyone should probably just get it. I actually asked them to make sure that there were some hot takes in the vaccine that they were giving me just so I could come on here and have something a little extra for you when I got back home. That's perfect.

Pump the football vaccination takes into your veins. All right. Well, there's two things that we really have to discuss here. We have to discuss the 17th game, which will be between the Vikings and the Los Angeles Chargers, and also the Chargers pick right ahead of the Vikings so whoever your team takes will impact who our team here in Minnesota takes let's start with the 17th game let's preview it like it's uh tomorrow so who's gonna win this game who's gonna win this pivotal 17th game and even though I'm being a little facetious here I I actually do think that for both teams, this

extra game could be a big swing to whether they're in the playoffs, whether they can win their division, maybe not so much the Chargers, but definitely the Vikings might have a shot at that. I actually think that this one's kind of important, Daniel. Yeah, absolutely. We'll go back to the last time the two teams met. The Vikings blew the doors off the Chargers at a soccer stadium in Carson. And that was one of the worst losses of the Anthony Lynn era.

I'd say second behind the Patriots loss from last year, 45 to nothing at home. So, you know, a lot has changed since then. But, you know, I think for me, I need to figure out what this offensive line is going to look like for the Chargers. The Vikings and Chargers are mirror images of each other in that sense. It's always like, well, they got a lot of talent on defense. And then now in the Chargers case and the Vikings and with Phillip Rivers and now with Justin Herbert with the Chargers, well, they have the quarterback figured out. They got the skill position players.

It's like, well, if the offensive line can get it together and stay healthy, then they have a chance. So that's what I really have to wait and see what that's going to look like. But there's just been so much turnover with the chargers over the last few years. And then particularly this off season, going to a new coach, you expect the defense to be really good. Cause Brandon Staley has been one of the top defensive minds in football for the last three years, sort of under the radar when he was a position coach,

the last year sort of came to the forefront as a defensive coordinator for the Rams. You expect the defense to be there. You know, Justin Herbert is a rising star and is going to have a good season just because the town is there. And like I said, they've got the skill position players,

but the real question is like, will the offensive line play well enough? They've made some crucial additions. They got Corey Lindsley and Matt Filer to, I mean, Lindsley's an all pro center and Filer's a quality guard with tackle flexibility. They signed Odeye Bushi to play right guard, so they kind of solidified the interior of the line.

The tackles are still a question mark because Brian Belaga has been injured, and the question is can they rely on him, and they don't really have a starting left tackle. So it's hard for me to say who would win today just because I need to see what the offensive line's going to look like. But it should be a great game, and it'll be at SoFi Stadium versus the last time the two of them played. It was, like I said, at the soccer stadium in Carson. Very much a home game for the Vikings that day.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. This is funny. It may sound funny. The coldest day of my reporting career was actually that day because when you're in Los Angeles, you don't expect it to be 40 mile an hour winds and a 60 degree day and that's actually freezing when it's been you know let's see it was December but I think it was still warm and then that day the

temperature dropped so I was outside that press box was outside with a t-shirt on and just the wind blowing right into my face for three straight hours but at least i didn't throw like five picks like philip rivers did that day so that was tough but i think when you're talking about the mirror images where your team went a different direction is in actually signing offensive linemen the vikings brought back dakota dozier who was pff's dead last guard last year and then got mason Cole who ranked 31st out of 35 centers and so I think that what the Chargers did was actually what everyone wanted the Vikings to do so what is the answer do you think for uh the final position there for left tackle I mean is it

a deadlock that they are going to be taking a left tackle at 13. One point on the quarter, Dozier, before we get into this, I covered the Jets when he was like the ninth offensive lineman on that roster. And I'm going to tell you right now that I am perplexed and very surprised that he is still in the league as a starting guard. But in terms of left tackle for the Chargers, right now on the roster, they have Trey Pipkins, who was a developmental pick in 2019. They took him out of Division II Sioux Falls. Excellent athlete, excellent size, but the technique and fundamentals in terms of his hand placement and his sets just hasn't been there through his first two seasons, despite some significant development. You know, when you're coming out of DT, you need to see very rapid and sufficient development to turn into an NFL caliber tackle.

And he's just not there yet. I think that he can develop into a nice swing tackle piece this season, a guy that can come in with some experience. That's sort of where you want him at this stage of his career. They need somebody more talented. They need a legitimate starting left tackle on their roster. And so in my opinion, the way they need to address that is in the first round of the draft. They have the 13th pick. In a perfect world, the first round shakes out, so you get either Stuhl or Slater falling to the Chargers at 13. That seems unlikely based on especially the trade that happened today with the Panthers. They were probably going to take a quarterback.

But now that they've traded for Sam Darnold, it seems like they could be in the market for a left tackle. So that seems unlikely. So what do you have at 13 then? You've got Christian Derrisaw out of Virginia Tech. You've got Tevin Jenkins out of Oklahoma State. Those are the two guys that you could look at at 13 realistically. But is that enough value there?

You know, some people are higher on Jenkins. some people are higher on jenkins some people are on darisov but there really isn't a consensus number three tackle after those first two guys um so what do you do if tackle is absolutely the priority i think it is i don't necessarily think that chargers believe that do you trade back from 13 and try and get one of those low those second tier tackles say in, in the early 20s, mid-20s, depending on who you can trade with. I think that's an option. Pick up an additional second.

Pick up an additional third, perhaps. Get some more draft capital. I think that's a possibility. But the scenario I keep coming back to, and I wrote about this today, is they need a corner, too. They cut Casey Hayward this offseason. They were able to re-sign Michael Davis. But they have Chris Harris, who's going to be 32 in June and is more of a slot

guy. And they have Michael Davis and behind those two guys, they don't really have a legitimate boundary corner, starting caliber boundary corner. And there are going to be some guys at 13 realistically that are there, right? I mean, Sertan's probably going to be gone, but JC Horn sitting there at 13, the press man corner out of South Carolina, who is a ridiculous athlete, like that's going to be gone but JC Horn sitting there at 13 the press man corner out of South Carolina who's a ridiculous athlete like that's going to be really enticing so if they go corner at that spot then you say okay what's going on in the second round what can they get at 47 right and so maybe

it's Sam Cosme out of Texas maybe it's Walker Little out of Stanford you know James Hudson was in that conversation at Cincinnati he didn't have a great pro day. You know, and then guys like Liam Eikenberg out of Notre Dame, you know, sturdy, dependable type player. You know, some guys, some people think he's more of a right tackle than a left tackle. This doesn't have that sort of elite athleticism, but would he be there at 47? Would they trade back into the first round? So that's, that's the calculus going on with the chargers right now, but they haven't taken an offensive line in the first round since 2013, and it's just not something that Tom Telesco has done in his tenure

investing premium picks in offensive linemen. He just doesn't do it very regularly, and he's taken this other avenue, which is to try and plug the holes with free agents, and he's done it successfully at times. You know, he signed mike pouncey and russell okung okung in 2017 and pouncey out of the 2018 season and that was like a decent offensive line in 18 when they make made a run in the postseason they beat the the ravens and if they didn't have a ton of injuries a linebacker maybe they give the patriots a better game in that divisional round um but they're doing it again this year right you got a lindsley is pushing 30 same with filer and abushi is already over 30.

So you're kind of going the over 30 route to try and plug holes. I really think it would make a lot of sense for them to get a cornerstone left tackle young on a rookie deal that can develop into a legitimate, legitimate player at that spot. But I think that they are looking at their options, and corner is also a big need, and that's a factor in the conversation. You mentioned the trade down option, and this is something that we talk about all the time at 14 now after the trade that you referenced for sam darnold going to the carolina panthers which i mean i think that the panthers i don't know i i'm not i'm not certain that they know what they're doing um so going from a

quarterback who's kind of in the middle of the league to a quarterback who has been really bad, who maybe at his best can be middle of the league, I don't know if that's a really smart way to trade. But as opposed to drafting someone who is a high-end prospect this year that you don't have a sample size on, and then exercising the fifth-year option, so now he's going to be an expensive quarterback that you're not sure is good? Okay. Bold strategy. We'll see how it plays out but um when when it comes to that trade though if that takes them off the board for a quarterback which i believe it

does and i think you believe it does now all of a sudden our two squads 13 14 are positions where max jones or trey lance look like they could be there now obviously los angeles does not need a quarterback the vikings i don't think they think they need a quarterback, even though there's a good case for it. But I think if you're the Vikings, you're hoping that the Chargers just take their draft pick there and you're the team that can trade back if someone desperately wants Mac Jones or Trey Lance or whoever falls. But I think the Chargers do that before them or somebody else ahead of them does it before

them. Yeah, absolutely. do that before them or somebody else ahead of them does it before them yeah absolutely i think that has to be on the table um just because of what happened with the with the panthers trade exactly what you were alluding to like before that trade it was hard to imagine one of those four guys you know being there outside of the outside of the you know top 10 and at 13 um you know mac jones might be there might have been there, but now it's even more likely. When you have one less quarterback needy team in that top 10, all of a sudden it's becoming a legitimate possibility.

And it's something they should look into. It's going to come down to sort of what I was talking about before. Do they really want to spend that pick on a corner? And if they do, then you sit there and see how the first round shakes out. And if J.C. Horn is there at 13, or if they feel like they want to take a risk on caleb farley the virginia tech corner who had the back surgery then you stay there and you make that pick but if you can get additional draft capital from a quarterback needy team someone that really wants to trade up maybe get something above value above what the draft chart the value chart tells you

you should get uh and move back and still get a good left tackle prospect and add an additional pick in the top 100. The Chargers already have four picks in the top 100. You add a fifth in there, and all of a sudden you can address different needs. They need some defensive line depth. They need a third safety. They need an edge rusher, right? All of a sudden you can start addressing more needs with starting caliber players,

and that has to be a real consideration. So if you're a Vikings fan, you're looking at it. Okay. What, you know, is it possible that we could be the team that, you know, a quarterback need team trades up, you know, to get in there in the mix and get Mac Jones or whomever it is. You have to look at the Chargers first and foremost, the team that's really going to be considering moving back, especially if like I was alluding to before,

if Slater and Sewell off the board and the Chargers are like, we really want to get a left tackle in the first round. We'll look for corner later on because we think we've got some prospects that we can get after in the second, third round, for example. You know, then it's like, OK, moving back in the first round, trading that pick to a quarterback-needing team and going after Derisar, Jenkins, one of those two guys, makes a lot of sense. Hey, everyone. We have a new special offer to tell you about with our friends at Symbol. If you go to symbol.app, that's S-I-M-B-U-L-L dot A-P-P, and sign up as a first-time user with a $20 deposit into Symbol

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because if you're Dallas, you don't necessarily need to make that pick either. Like even the New York Giants. Now they don't tend to trade back and their general manager is kind of a lunatic. So, you know, like he'll pick the linebacker there probably, but I mean, there are teams ahead of the Vikings and the Chargers that have their quarterback set. And anybody who has their quarterback set has to be considering moving back,

trying to get as much as they can out of the Patriots or somebody else so this dance on draft night is going to be really fascinating um now I want to ask you about Herbert and Staley and just like maybe we'll just ask it this way uh you buying like are you buying that Herbert will start there first is going to continue to do this because there were you you know, some concerns coming out of college. Maybe there are for everybody. But the one stat that kind of sticks out to me is that he was really good when under pressure statistically. And I just don't know how many guys ever continue that from year to year to year.

There's usually a regression there. But then also you assume he's going to get better at football after a year of playing so like where do we stand on regression or nah you buying it or nah no I think he's going to keep being really really good like you said that there'll be parts of his game that that regressed you know I mean a lot of those um you know pressure numbers he was hitting 70 yard bombs with pressure in his face for touchdowns and that's obviously going to elevate your numbers a little bit but let's look at it this way right the chargers offensive line was horrific last year i mean horrific they were i mean in my opinion the worst offensive line in the league they couldn't block in the running game and they couldn't

protect and justin herbert did all of that behind the worst offensive line in football you you make that the 20th best offensive line in football right all of a sudden he doesn't have to do as much in terms of escaping the pocket in terms of throwing off platform in terms of making these insane plays which he was doing all year last year so maybe he regresses in certain areas but if he's under pressure less right if he's if there's pressure in his face less frequently then ideally he will perform better and it won't be as much of a factor. And you won't have to put up those numbers where his passer rating is 120 under pressure.

If he's not as pressure as often, those instances won't be as important to his overall numbers. So I think that they've done that. I mean, you go out and get an all-pro center in Corey Lindsley, you're going to make your whole offensive line better. You know, it's a force multiplier. That's what everyone says about having a great center, right? The communication is going to be easier among the offensive linemen.

Justin Herbert is going to have to do less of the line of scrimmage because Corey Lindsley will be controlling a lot of the protection calls and those types of things. You've got two legitimate starting guards now, which you didn't have last year. You had Trey Turner, who was, like, one of the worst guards in football. I thought he was ranked last, but apparently Dozier was ranked lower than him. And then, you know, Forrest Lamp was a guy who hadn't played a lot and really struggled at times, especially in pass protection. So I think that he's going to continue

playing at a high level, primarily because the offensive line is going to be better. He's going to have a more reliable running game, which they didn't have last year. They ranked 31st in rushing DVOA, rushing efficiency, according to Football Outsiders. And so you expect that to be a little bit better. Like if you can get the protection in the 20s, mid-20s, early, like low 20s, you can get the running game efficiency more to the middle of the league. All of a sudden that makes Justin Herbert's job a lot easier.

So if he's working in this situation where all the things around him are improved, then you would expect him to continue to continue to play well, even if he regresses in certain areas. But the real question is, okay, how is Joe Lombardi, the offensive coordinator going to perform as a play caller now in his second stint as a play caller? Cause he went to Detroit under Jim Caldwell in 14 and 15. There was an unmitigated disaster.

I don't think you can describe it in any other way. We got fired, I think it was 22 games into his Lions tenure. He got through a full season, made it through four or five games, and then got fired. Matt Stafford was playing by far the worst football of his career under Joel Lombardi, you know, according to EPA. And so you wonder if he's going to be able to learn from that experience. Now, from everything I've gathered in my reporting and talking to Joel Lombardi in press conference,

it seems like he has learned. And you see this with offensive coordinators. Brian Dabble is a great example, right? He struggled, you know, in Miami, in Cleveland, in Kansas City, his first stints as an offensive coordinator. A lot of it because he was trying to take the Josh McDaniels Patriot system and force it, you know, square peg, round hole type thing, and be like, I need all of you guys to learn this massive amount of verbiage and I'm going to do it this way. And it's my way or

the highway, right? He learns from that, goes to the bills and changes his approach and starts listening more to his players, being more collaborative. And like, there's a great example. Our Robert Mays wrote a great feature on dayball and, you know, Cole Beasley had this package from SMU called the Mustang package. And you really love the plays. And he went to dabble and he was like, Hey, I love these plays. Can we put them in the offense? And Brian D'Abel was like, absolutely. We'll put them in. And, and they worked right.

And it was not something that was a part of that Patriots offense that he, that he loves so much, but it was something that Cole Beasley liked to do. And so he became a more adaptable coach and that's what you're looking for from Joe Lombardi. But there's always concerns when you have a guy who didn't have much success in his first time as a play caller coming in to his second stint and trying to figure out if he can learn, adapt, and grow from those mistakes he made previously in his career. And I think that's a major point when you're talking about Herbert's development. So before I get to that, let me just clarify Dakota Dozier versus Trey Turner because this is important. Dakota Dozier was last in pass blocking grade, and I think that Turner may have been last in overall grade. Okay.

Because when Trey Turner came on the market and people were, like, tweeting me the eyeball emojis, it's like he actually has a worse overall grade than Dakota Dozier. So I think you just want to maybe try to find something else there. That was so confusing to me. Right? That was so confusing to me because I see it all over Twitter. People are like, wow, Trey Turner's available. He's only 27 and he has five Pro Bowls.

I'm like, I watched this guy last year. Every week I'm watching the taping, like, holy cow. He's just not there. And he was a great player. Don't get me wrong. Early in his career, he was outstanding. But he signed a big contract with the Panthers and sometimes you see this with guys where they get their money and they just aren't the same type of player because they're not putting in the same

kind of effort and and that's what you're seeing so I was I was shocked I was like these people must not be watching the games they must just be looking at his Wikipedia profile and his resume and being like oh that makes a lot of sense he was bad last year and there's a reason he hasn't signed anywhere yet this is where pro football focus has really changed our lives and the All-22 film that you mentioned, because in the past, absolutely, we would have looked at that and said, wow, a Pro Bowl guard is on the market. I mean, the Vikings need to be going all in. If we couldn't watch the tape and we didn't have grades to kind of point us in that direction or other people who watch the tape and grade every play uh then we really wouldn't have a good idea so no you

don't want trey turner um not even not even a little bit not even like hey what about the veteran minute like no no no not if he's ranking lower than dakota dozier in anything so let me circle back though but that you you kind of touched on what I was going to ask about like if something derails Justin Herbert from his trajectory which his trajectory screams superstar I mean if at very least he's going to be one of the most fun quarterbacks to watch because of his sheer arm talent is outrageous but if there's one thing that's going to derail him and now I want to know how much you put any weight in this sort of thing. There were games at times last year when I watched him toward the end of games, when the pressure was on,

when big situations kind of came about, that he just didn't really look like he had a very good grasp of how to handle those. And I kind of thought that was there with him at Oregon too. But I also am not sure how much weight I want to put in to a rookie not being able to handle late game situations and things like that. Like, do you feel like it's is it fundamental to him or is that just the thing that you think he'll kind of grow into? So I agree with you early and Justin would admit this to you. Like early on in the season, he had opportunities to win games and didn't get the job done. I mean, they were up huge on the Bucs,

and he got the ball back down to score and threw a bad interception in that game, and that was his third start of his career. But he grew in that area. Like, he started making big-time plays towards the end of the season to win games in crunch time. And, like, that was, if you point to one thing that was the most promising about Justin Herbert's rookie season, it was, you could see it. If you watch the tape and watch this team every week you could

see him learning how to win he was learning how to make big plays he was understanding in real time right that the quarterback at the end of the day is going to have a play to make right I go back to the the 49ers um Super Bowl loss two years ago when Garoppolo had that receiver down the middle of the field and he overthrew him and then the 49ers would have won the Super Bowl if he had hit that play. And I think about that a lot because I'm like, that's why you need a great quarterback. That's why you need a guy who understands you have to make big plays and big moments because that's the guy that's going to make the play that's going to win the game. And you saw Justin starting to do that later in the year I mean in the Raiders game he threw

off his back foot and hit a 50-yard bomb to Jalen Guyton they ended up winning that game in overtime on that series on that drive on the QB sneak and that's what those the famous is like the the meme of him being like I was in I was in that was that game later game he hit Tyron Johnson one of their up-and-coming receivers on an out route to set up a game-winning field goal for Michael Badger. He started making these plays later in the game where you're like, okay, he's starting to realize that he has to hit these throws in important moments. And more importantly, you're seeing the mindset, but more importantly, you're seeing him execute that. So I actually would say that you saw growth in that area, and that heading into year two is something that he has to continue but the fact that it started in one place and ended up in a much better place later in the season I think is reason for promise isn't Herbert just the reason why none of us know what's

going to happen with any quarterbacks when they get drafted because I watched I mean I watched a number of games with him at Oregon for no other reason than just my intrigue and I was like I don't see it I just I, I, I'm not, I don't know what everybody's so real hyped about with the guy and he, you know, kind of misses on some easy throws. And I'm not so sure that, you know, the arm talent is going to carry him forever. And then here he comes into the league and just changes, you know, the trajectory really of the organization to have a guy that is locked into

the golden ticket where you have the rookie contract, where you can the rookie contract, where you can sign an entire offensive line in free agency and rebuild around him. Like, these are the things I could just hear the jealousy sort of seething out of Vikings fans as they listen to this, like, ah, rocket arm, and he's throwing bombs at the end of games, huh? Like, these are the things, you know, they signed all these linemen, huh? You know, it's just, it's really fascinating how if you land on that pick, if you hit that pick right, it just changes everything for how you feel about your organization. It's such a crapshoot.

Like the draft itself is a crapshoot. You're basically throwing darts at a board. And when you narrow it down to picking quarterbacks, that board is shrunk by about a hundred times. So it's even harder to hit. And there's so many factors that go into it. The situation you end up in is crucial. Who are your coaches? What's your supporting cast like?

What kind of system are you running? What are the expectations that are on your shoulders? All of those types of things. And then you go back to the college tape, right? Well, Justin Herbert didn't have any weapons. Oregon had one receiver that played with Justin Herbert that was drafted, and he was drafted in the seventh round.

So you take that skill set from a situation that had a lack of talent, and you drop him into an offense that has Mike Williams, Keenan Allen, Hunter Henry, Austin Eckler. All of a sudden, you're seeing some growth. You're seeing a guy who's playing a lot better because he has more talent around him. I think that was a factor in it as well. On top of it, Oregon's running this super run-heavy offense.

They want to smash the ball down people's throats. That was the offense that Mario Cristobal was running there. And you bring him into the Chargers, and they're running more of a Shanahan-style offense with a lot of bootlegs, and they're dialing up these deep shots off play action. That's not what he was really doing at Oregon. He was more put into a game manager role. So he started thinking about all these different factors that go into it. And it's really easy to miss. But I think part of it is it gets

over complicated, right? I mean, you have a guy 6'6", 246, can throw the ball 65 yards without taking a step. He's got an absolute missile. He's mobile. He's fluid. He can throw off platform. And everyone's like, okay, yeah, no brainer, number one overall pick. Well, what about the leadership issues? And people start trying to find problems with him. But listen, I've done the reporting,

and I've done what any scout could have done, which is talk to people that have been around Justin Herbert, and you can't find anybody that has played with him at any level, from high school in Oregon to actual University of Oregon, throughout his career, no one would ever tell you that he lacks leadership. I mean, this is a guy who was off the radar as a recruit because he didn't go to the Elite 11. He didn't go to seven-on-seven camps.

Why? Because he stayed home to practice with his high school receivers that he could win an Oregon State Championship. Like, what does that tell you about the guy? He cares. Now, he's not the most gregarious. He's not going to be like Baker Mayfield running around, you know, banging his chest. But he can play and he's committed and he's a genuine dude. And that matters when you're talking about leadership. So I think some of it is overcomplicated. People are trying to find holes in these guys that don't exist.

We're seeing it with Justin Fields right now. Like, you know, report like somebody goes on TV and says that, you know, Justin Fields is a bad workout. Like, well, it takes one phone call to his, his coach at Ohio state to completely refute that. Right. But that's, that's the conversation around the draft. So, I mean, the reality of it, it's complete crapshoot and it's really hard to find a quarterback, but I give a lot of credit to Tom Telesco who spent years and years and years and years scouting every single quarterback who came to the draft. So that,

cause he knew there was eventually going to be a time when Phillip Rivers wasn't around anymore and he was going to have the draft of quarterback. And so he had mountains and mountains and mountains of research done on, on a lot of quarterbacks and their scouting department did an excellent job and targeted him and knew that he was going to be successful and I think he got into a great situation and one other thing I'll add I know I'm rambling a little bit but one thing I'll add is that he I think benefited greatly from being thrown into the fire I think that if he had been named the starter preseason, for example, and had two weeks to think about his first career start, things might have gone a little bit differently just because of his makeup as a human being.

I think getting thrown into that Chiefs game, finding out he was starting five minutes before kickoff was really monumental for how his career went afterward because he didn't have to think about it. And then on the first drive, he runs for a touchdown in the rest of his history. Hey, everyone. Anybody who listens to the show knows that Sam and I may not be scratch golfers, but we love to have a great time playing golf. And that's why we have partnered with Birdie Golf in Woodbury. Birdie Golf is hands down the best indoor golf experience you will ever have. There are eight of the world's best golf simulators where you can sharpen your swing and luckily for

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and since they reached out wanting to support this show, I want to tell you about what they do. Scout Logistics is just-in-time transportation for full tractor-trailer loads, and if you're wondering what that means exactly, well, if you own or work for a company that needs shipping solutions, they are the preferred carrier of Fortune 500 companies across North America. And we have quite a few of those in Minnesota, right? They can ship perishable, non-perishable, FTL or LTL, and they have shipping needs, check out ScoutLogistics.com or call 855-217-2688 extension 232 to connect with them directly to find out how Scout Logistics can minimize risk and overperform and go the extra mile for your company. How is Tyrod's lung, by the way?

Is his lung okay? Got any reports on uh what that heel that sounds horrible yeah like a nightmare for you you're Tyrod Taylor getting a start to try and you know kind of revamp your career prove that you could be a starter so they could trade you to somebody else the next year and the doctor messes up and punctures you long so tough break for Tyrod his previous team in Buffalo wanted to move on from him, and then he gets another chance. It didn't work out in Cleveland.

He's like the Ryan Fitzpatrick now, except for Fitzpatrick always ends up getting the job back somehow. Yeah, like the anti-Fitz. Yeah, the anti-Fitz. You want him to be the bridge quarterback. That's tragic. He gets hurt somehow or whatever, and he never ends up being your bridge quarterback. Brandon Staley, his defense, everyone talked about him as like the genius and so forth from last year.

With defense, it's tough, though. And we saw this in Minnesota. There are few people who know defense better and who call defense better than Mike Zimmer. But without the talent, they were 29th in points allowed, and that is just how it goes. And when I look at that Rams roster from last year, Aaron Donald, not a bad football player. Jalen Ramsey, not a bad football player.

Look at how much some of their guys have been paid, like Johnson, also the safety by Cleveland. He gets a big contract. In comparison, how does it stack up, I guess, to the talent that he is inheriting now with the Chargers? Right. So the thing to know about Brandon Staley is that he does come from the Vic Fangio tree. So it's going to be a 3-4 defense with a lot of quarters coverage, a lot of two deep shells. That's sort of the spine, the backbone of the defense. But he is very malleable in terms of how he uses players.

And he will put his best players in a position to succeed. And he will go against, say, the tenants of his defense if that player does a certain thing well that doesn't exactly fit in with what he does. To me, that's a sign of great coaching, is being willing to adapt your schemes and your philosophies to fit to the players that you have. The Chargers have two dominant players. I'm not saying that they're on the level of Jalen Ramsey and Aaron Donald,

but they're in that conversation, right? Joey Bosa as an edge rusher, defensive end, defensive lineman, he is in that echelon of player. And then you have Derwin James, who, when he's on the field, is a defensive player of the year candidate and will be if he plays more than 12 games in a season. Like he's just going to be in that conversation. Now, with Jalen Ramsey, they did a lot of interesting stuff, right? They let him be Jalen and they let him press man the best receiver and take care of his half of the field. And I think that from an X is an O standpoint, it makes sense because he's such a good football player. But having covered Jalen Ramsey and Jacksonville, it's also part of his psyche. Like you need that guy to be on the same page with you and you just have to gas him up.

Be like, all right, we're going to give you the half of the field because we believe in you. We believe you're the best cornerback who's ever played the game. And I think that will get the most out of Jalen Ramsey and Brandon Staley knew that. And that's partly why he designed the defense. We've got to be able to go out and execute. And that's part of it. So they're going to be able to do a lot of things with Derwin James.

In terms of Jalen Ramsey, they did half the field stuff. But they also moved him in the slot and played him like a star position and let him defend the nickel and kind of moves him all over to get the most out of him. Derwin James can play every position on a football field besides like nose tackle. He's that talented. Like, in one-on-ones in training camp, like, he locks down Keenan Allen one-on-one. There's nobody in the league that can do that. The only guy that's done that consistently is Chris Harris when they went up against each other, Broncos and Chargers. But so you can play Derwin at corner.

You can play him at free safety. You can play him at strong safety. You can play him at any of the linebacker positions. You can play him at edge rusher. Like, he's that talented in terms of what he can do Derwin at corner. You can play him at free safety. You can play him at strong safety. You can play him at any of the linebacker positions. You can play him at edge rusher. Like he's that talented in terms of what he can do on a football field. So that's the most interesting thing to me is like, he's going to be able to take Derwin and move him all over. Now with Joey Bosa, you're not,

you don't have like a Swiss army knife in Joey Bosa. Like what he does well, he does extremely well. And what I'm curious to see is sort of how they, how, how Brandon Staley arranges this defense to get the most out of Joey Bosa because he's a guy who's great with his hands. Like excellent, excellent hand use, and that's how he gets to the quarterback. He's a technician at the end of the day. Obviously, like the athleticism is there, the size, the strength,

all that kind of stuff. But his technique in terms of his pass rushing moves and how polished they are, that's what makes him great. And he has not rushed from a standing position that often in his career. The hand in the dirt, coming off the edge is a big end, and using his hands to beat tackles. That's what he does really well. Now, Brandon has said that Joey's going to be an edge player,

so he's going to be lining up in base defenses as an outside linebacker, which isn't exactly his skill set. So that's what I'm really curious to see is, okay, will they move him inside? Will they play him in a defensive line? Will he get some looks at defensive tackle? And so you have these two players that sort of mirror Jalen Ramsey and Aaron Donald in terms of, okay, you can use them in a lot of different ways. They're elite, elite, elite players, all-world players.

And so that's what you're sort of going to base the rest of the defense around. So – and the Chargers have talent behind them. They need another corner, like I was saying earlier, but they took a linebacker, Kenneth Murray, in the first round last year. I mean, he's a very talented player, so I'm curious to see what they do with him. And the only other concern on the defense

is the other safety spot. You know, they have Nassir Adeli, who's a second-round pick in 2019. I saw a lot of inconsistency on tape last year, but they believe in him and think that he's going to be able to step in at that free safety spot and do a really good job. So we'll see what happens. But, you know, John Johnson, like you mentioned,

he was a guy that Staley moved around a bunch. He was the strongest safety in that defense. You expect Derwin James to play a similar role. I mean, John Johnson was playing strong safety. They put him at Will Linebacker sometimes, and they also moved him into the nickel as well. He played like a big nickel there at times. So I'm excited to see what they do with Derwin and Joey,

but I think there are some similarities in the talent level between the Rams and the Chargers. You know, you're getting me excited for this game. Like, I want this game to be very soon. Although, of course, being in Minnesota, I want it to be in December or early January. We don't know when that's going to be until they release the schedule in May, but I don't want to be coming out to Los Angeles in September.

I can get hot weather in September here, but something really stands out to me just in talking to you about this team is Vikings fans are in a place where they've seen the same coach and the same general manager and the same quarterback now for several years. And it sort of feels like a lot of the same results you know that whole thing that gets used all the time like yeah you're the same the definition of insanity who's deal um i actually found out that that's an albert einstein quote i generally want to like push up against things like that and be like what does that mean anyway

definition of insanity but i guess we've got to roll with it if it was albert einstein that is i mean that is the vikings though at this moment they've they've run their off season just how you expected it they got defensive players they're sort of neglecting the offensive line they haven't gotten more weapons yet and we'll see how that goes in the draft but i just think it's interesting that these two teams do have a lot in common, including a lot of tragedy in their past, you know, with missed field goals in the playoffs and, and, you know, disappointments and things like that when it was supposed to be their year. But you know, it's just fascinating to me that like,

I think that there's probably some jealousy here with, with Vikings fans listening to you talk about all these things that are different. And I know I am from a reporter perspective, all the intrigue that goes into this team. I think if we were ranking like the all intriguing group from the NFL, where we just don't know how it's going to play out and it has a lot of interesting storylines, I think Los Angeles is probably in the top five of that list. Yeah, there's no question about it. And there is hope, right?

There is hope in the fan base. But the one thing is like you get a quarterback as exciting as Justin Herbert, there's no question about it. And there is hope, right? There is hope in the fan base. But the one thing is like, you get a quarterback as exciting as Justin Herbert, there's going to be hope. You know, I think towards the tail end of the Rivers era, you know, he throws the ball to the other team a lot in key situations, especially in that 2019 season. And I think fans were ready for a new era. And so they got Justin Herbert and labeled it a new era, but they still had Anthony Lynn, who he's an old school coach. I mean, I still think he's a fantastic leader and motivator. He's an excellent developer, running back talent, but he's just not forward thinking as a coach.

And so this is really the new era. So now you have a new head coach who's 38 and is on the forefront and cutting edge of defensive football. That's exciting. You've got Justin Herbert, who's one of the most exciting players in football quarterback.

You put those two things together, you're going to have hope. But there's something to be said about continuity. Like there's something to be said in the NFL about continuity because changing things up and having new faces and new communication from coaches and all of that kind of stuff, new verbiage, et cetera, like that's not exactly easy. And so you're taking a risk when you go out and you get a new head coach

and you change quarterbacks and all these things. It brings hope, but there is more risk involved too. And like right now, yeah, everyone's like, yeah, this is going to be a rousing success and you change quarterbacks and all these things, it brings hope, but there is more risk involved too. And like right now, yeah, everyone's like, yeah, this is going to be a rousing success. And Justin Herbert's going to win MVP and the Chargers are going to go 12 and four and, and, and dethrone the chiefs in the AFC West. Like that all sounds good in early April, but let me tell you, like that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to happen in December.

And it's been quite a bit since the Chargers have been playing meaningful December football. You know, I think all Chargers fans are hopeful that that happens, but there's a lot that needs to get done before then, before anyone can say that it's a sure thing. And it starts with this offensive line. Like I need to see an offensive line block for the quarterback. And then I can tell you, okay, yeah, they got a shot.

But until that happens, like they have some serious concerns, despite the hope that is permeating around the fan base right now boy i felt that last statement i i moved here to cover the minnesota vikings in 2016 i have yet to see an offensive line that pff ranked above 23rd every every year like what does it look like if you're covering the nfl i don't know you're asking the wrong person we no idea. So you let me know if you get that opportunity and they're a good offensive line. All right, before I let you go, Daniel, and you have certainly lived up to your jazzed-up vaccinated self, and I greatly appreciate the energy.

It's awesome. What's the worst one? What is the worst travesty that the Chargers have ever faced uh that that every chargers fan talks about because here it's clearly like 12 men in the huddle you know brett farve interception gary anderson wide left like those things are just you know drilled into every minnesota vikings fan my friend uh just had a kid and like i'm sure by day three, that child will know all about these things, just being in Minnesota. So what is that for the Chargers? Is it the fumble against the Patriots when it was kind of like their year

and they get the interception and they fumble? I forget exactly what year that was. But what is it for the Chargers? I feel like it's the kicking problems. They have not had a reliable kicker in like decades. And then it's in the most Chargers fashion possible. They feel like they find this diamond in the rough and Michael Badgley. And then lo and behold,

everyone finds out that he can't kick field goals over 45 yards. They had the Saints. They should have beat the Saints. He had like a 45 yarder to win that game on Monday night football and missed it. And he's now three of 12 on field goals outside of 45 yards over the last two years. Like he can't make them. And so it's, it's just, and then, I mean, young, young, who, young, who, I think that's how you pronounce it. I always botch his name, but the Falcons kicker,

he was with the chargers and they thought they'd found somebody, but they cut him. And then he goes to the Falcons and ends up becoming a very successful kicker. So I say, like, on a macro scale, it's the kicking problems, because that's something that's persisted throughout this modern era of the Chargers. Well, and this goes back to Nate Kading, even. Nate Kading missing a key field goal. I forget the exact circumstance of the playoffs.

And then the Vikings brought in Nate Kading to help Dan Bailey as like an assistant coach. And everyone was like, you mean the guy that missed the key field goal for the San Diego Chargers? I mean, obviously, that was back before you were covering them. But still, like that era, the Marty Schottenheimer getting fired after going 14-2, the playoff loss to the Patriots, the missed field. I mean, really, there is a lot in common here between these two franchises. So, well, we'll definitely check in again before this week 17 or the 17th game that I am hoping is in week 17. But I guess we'll find out pretty soon when that is. You do great work covering the Chargers. People should follow you.

Daniel Popper. That's your Twitter, right? Is this just your name? Or do you throw in your popper? OK, you don't throw in NFL or Draft Scout into it or anything? Okay, good. Nope. Just at Daniel R. Popper. Yeah, Daniel R. Popper. Beautiful. Yeah. Well, we have Courtney Cronin from ESPN. And during this time of year, she goes by Courtney R. Draft Scout. So if you want to steal that, you could be Daniel R. Draft Scout if you want to be. But you do awesome work. I've been following you since we talked, I think, maybe before that game in 2019. So I've been following you for a long time.

You're doing awesome stuff. And we'll talk again soon, man. Thanks for coming on. Awesome. Thanks for having me, man.