Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - What will the Vikings' playing style look like (Fans Only) and Washington football analyst Mark Bullock talks Carson Wentz

Episode Date: June 13, 2022

Matthew Coller takes fan questions, including what type of style the Vikings will play this year and whether the Vikings have a case for the best group of defensive linemen in NFL history. Then he talks with Mark Bullock, who covers the Washington Commanders, to find out whether they are buying into Carson Wentz this year and whether Washington fans think they'll beat the Vikings. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. This is half of a fans-only podcast. I also have a conversation coming up a little later in the show with Mark Bullock, who covers the Washington Commanders. And we talk about how the game on the schedule against the Commanders is one that both teams think that they're going to win. And I'm very interested to get Mark's opinions on Carson Wentz, how he fits in, whether Washington is a low-key team

that could actually improve. And he's, I think, one of the best football analysts covering an individual team. He's got a sub stack, but he's written for The Athletic. He's written for The Washington Post. So he's very good. And he's from England, so you'll enjoy his accent. That's coming up in a little bit here, but so many of you have sent fans only questions that I want to continue to answer those and not

just include the interview because there's a lot of great stuff to still get to also had another idea as well for an episode or two or three this week depending on how many responses I get on Twitter which is predictions and projections week so over at the website purpleinsider.com I'm writing about different predictions for Vikings players for the Vikings season and starting with Mike Clay of ESPN who predicts every single player. So later in the week, I'm going to talk with Mike and have him on the show and we'll go through all the predictions for Justin Jefferson, Kirk Cousins, and all that. That'll be a fun conversation.

But also I put it out there and asked Vikings fans, hey, send me your predictions for this season. And so that will be another episode as well. Probably the next episode you hear will be, uh, fan projections and me running through them. And some of them are funny. Some of them I think are extremely optimistic. Some of them are extremely not optimistic and we're going to find kind of where we think the right spot to be. So, uh, anybody who responded to that, thank you very much on Twitter. But also,

if you still want to get in, I'll do as many episodes as predictions I get. And then, you know, usually I feel like an episode that goes more than 45 minutes is maybe a little much for everybody on their commute or something. So as many as I can get in about that time span, I'll just keep doing them because it's June and this is the month where everybody makes their rankings and predictions and all those sorts of things. So if you haven't tweeted at me, go to my Twitter page, find that tweet. It's probably a couple down beyond just some dumb jokes. Respond to that or just go to purpleinsider.com and send me an email through the contact us area there and just send me a prediction.

Whatever you think, I'll put it in the list and we'll run through it. So that's going to be throughout this week happening. Also, because I feel bad asking people to come on the show in June. Everybody's going on vacation. Paul is on vacation. There's, you know, Courtney is doing her thing at ESPN, Courtney Cronin. So she'll be back, you know, in a few weeks to start kind of that countdown to training

camp. Jeremiah Searles will connect with him at some point, but I really have enjoyed answering all these questions from you. So there's going to be some more episodes like this mixed in as we go throughout the summer. So let's get to it. First email comes from Sarah. She's, Oh, wait a minute. What am I doing? I got to open the diet. Dr. Pepper. I apologize. There we go. Almost forgot. Okay. Sarah email.

Thanks for the great podcast. I thoroughly enjoy listening to it on my, uh, on my way to work at five o'clock in the morning. I've been there, Sarah. When I worked in Buffalo, I worked the morning show as a producer and that 5 a.m. I mean, that's a huge compliment to me because when you listen to someone at five o'clock in the morning, you better be able to stand that person because if someone annoys you at five o'clock in the morning, you want to drive off the road. So that is the biggest compliment you can give, but that's not your question. Um, Sarah says,

I feel like this year is unknown with how we, the Vikings are going to play. Uh, I'm so used to Mike Zimmer's era, but kind of clueless with Kevin's play style. Uh, you and you and me both, uh, don't know how much, much, or I don't know much about him. Two questions. How do you think we'll look as a team this year? And side question, what made you a Vikings fan? For me growing up with a father who's been a Vikings fan all his life, it was the year that we drafted Randy Moss. So let me start with the second part of that, because I know that there are lists, like I just tend to assume that everybody who listens to the show kind of knows how I got here and end up with

the show and inside the locker room and all those things. I just kind of figure that, you know, and I don't talk about it a whole lot. So if you don't know, um, I grew up in Buffalo and got a journalism degree there and got an internship at a radio station, worked my way up to the Buffalo bills flagship station. So it'd be the equivalent of a K fan here only in Buffalo. And then, uh, worked Buffalo bills, pre and post game show, produce the morning show, worked as a reporter covering hockey and wrote features about the NFL and things like that. And then in 2016, I got hired out here in Minnesota because I wanted to go to a bigger market and honestly wanted to make more money than I was making in Buffalo. Because the way radio works is if you're one of the hosts, you do well for yourself. If you're anybody else, it's a struggle. So if you're a producer, if you're, uh, you know, maybe, yeah, I mean,

that's kind of it. Right. But like producer is really the main other role or update sports, update anchor. Like there's a few other roles that it's very hard to get paid a whole lot. And this is a big market. Like this is a market that hosts the Superbowl and the final four and has all the major sports and the WNBA, uh, which is really cool to have here. So I thought Minnesota is a very attractive market. And when I got the job, I immediately said yes. And then moved out here in 2016 and worked for 1500 ESPN as the Vikings reporter initially. And then a host after that of purple daily. So if you guys have discovered purple daily with, with Judd, uh, that was my show on 1500.

And then when COVID hit, then the station decided to take everybody off the air and keep three people and everybody else lost their job, including me. So when I lost my job, I decided that I wanted to continue covering the Vikings, but I wasn't really sure like, is this, is this something I want to do? Um, or do I want to look for another job? And Jeff Anderson, who works for the Vikings, who is their, one of their top PR guys and just does a tremendous job for the Vikings. He called me and said, Hey, look, uh, if you want to keep your credential, I mean, if you start covering the team, like we'll do that for you. You know, if you start your own website, you start your own podcast, whatever you want

to do, we will keep you around because we know who you are. You worked for the radio station, like you're a legitimate journalist, that kind of thing. So every once in a while, I'll see somebody who doesn't know me very well on Twitter. We'll say something like, Oh, why is this guy get to cover the team inside the building with the website and not me with purple dinosaur.web or whatever. And it's like, well, because you know, I had all that experience before as a journalist and because I'm not a Vikings fan because I am an objective observer who is there to cover the team. And I think that that's the approach that people like about the show is that it's all objective it's not i like this player more than that player this team more than that team it's all just here's

what i think i'm here i'm watching everything i'm talking to everybody i see all the practices at least you know through training camp they shut it down after that with practices but talk with the players press conferences every every game going on the road and all those sorts of things. And then here's what I think. Uh, and that's kind of how you do it as a journalist, as opposed to, Hey, you know, hopefully we win this year, which is a little bit more of the tone of, you know, fan podcasts and things like that, or hopefully this, you know, seventh round pick becomes a star. That's not really what you're going to get for me because I'm not like, you know, I don't have a fan backstory. My backstory is I moved here to cover the team and that's what

I'm still doing. Um, so I hope that that kind of answers the question there, but I will say as far as the state of Minnesota and Vikings fans have just been absolutely incredible to me and to my wife. And we bought a house here. We didn't want to move anywhere. When I lost my job at the radio station, I wanted to continue to do this job because it's the only job that I ever wanted was doing this, covering an NFL team. Like that's what I want to do. So here we are together on this show now. So I really appreciate that, Sarah. Now I didn't even answer your question because I broke one of my own rules, which is to talk too much about me on the show. Cause you guys are here for the Vikings. So let me move away from that. It's a great question to

ask how, how we think they'll play this year. What is their style going to be? And we've picked up a lot of hints, but we won't really know until they get on the field. But the hints are this, that I think they're going to pass the football more on early downs. I think we can lock that in, that you're not going to see this obsession with we need to establish the run establish the run like that is kind of going to go away on the defensive side I think they're going to play a lot more deep safeties which means they're not going to have as many players up toward the line of scrimmage and they are going to have a little more maybe deception on the

defensive side we're not going to see Anthony Barr and Eric deception on the defensive side. We're not going to see Anthony Barr and Eric Hendricks like we did for every single play back with the Zimmer era. Now I think we'll see three safeties. We'll see Jordan Hicks a little less than we would have seen Anthony Barr. Eric Hendricks will still be out there. There's going to be some differences there. I also think that Mike Zimmer did a great job of dialing up blitzes and things like that. But there will be a lot of that. You're going to see Anthony or Daniel Hunter standing up, which you have not seen in a really long time as a standup rusher. It's a lot of kind of nuanced type of stuff on the defensive side that maybe on a play unless you go back and really look closely

at the tape might be a little hard to pick up on. But I think on the bigger, broader picture, the question is are you going to be more aggressive as an offensive team? And that also means in the way that you manage the game. This is going to be the big test for Kevin O'Connell because every one of us sits at home and says go for it on fourth down. And there's a couple of coaches like John Harbaugh and Brandon Staley who have said, you know what?

That's a good idea. And our numbers guys tell us that's a good idea. So we're doing it. But you know who's not one of those guys is Sean McVay. Ironically, Sean McVay is a tremendous, tremendous A-plus offensive coach. He is not a genius when it comes to managing the game. And compared to some other coaches, that doesn't mean Kevin O'Connell has to be the same way, and they hired someone to help them manage the game.

But when you're actually in it and you have those consequences, it can be a little harder to say, you know what, fourth and seven at our own 45, we're going for it because that's what the numbers say. That's a little bit harder. Mike Zimmer had a penchant to kick a 25-yard field goal. I don't ever think that was a good idea to kick those short field goals and just, quote, take the points.

You know, Mike Zimmer was extremely inconsistent with these things where week to week, one week, he would want Kirk to stop throwing picks. The next week he would want Kirk to air it out. One week he's punting on fourth down the next week he's going for it. Like you could never really get a grasp. And it was frustrating. I think for a lot of fans, because sometimes you'd be going, what are you, come on, man, what year is it? And then other times you'd go, oh, all right, now we're going for it all the time. That's weird. So with O'Connell, maybe we're going to get a little more consistency, but we won't really

know that until it happens. And the other thing is too, that I'll add to this is, are they going to switch to being a quick passing offense or are they really going to air it out? So they've done both in recent years. Last year, the first half of the season, Kirk Cousins had one of the shortest average depth of passes, meaning how far he throws the ball down the field in the entire NFL. So he was throwing a lot of short passes at the beginning of last year and Zimmer then said, no, dude, you gotta, you gotta air it out. And if you remember John D Filippo in 2018, the offensive coordinator wanted Kirk to get, get those quick passes. So he wouldn't get as much pressure. And then Gary Kubiak wanted him

to throw deep down the field. So I don't know where they're going to stand. Maybe it's somewhere in the middle with those things, but one area Kirk Cousins is really good at is play action and throwing intermediate passes off of those play actions. So passes 10 to 15 yards down the field, Justin Jefferson gets open. But if they're going to do Cooper cup stuff, which is, you know, kind of the Rams offense, Cooper cup caught a lot of short passes. So are they going to do that with Justin Jefferson? I mean, there's a lot of great questions there. How they're going to play, what their style is going to be, is I think really top of everybody's mind, Sarah, because you're exactly right that my entire career here in Minnesota was Mike Zimmer.

So now I'm getting used to a head coach who gives longer answers, which can be sometimes more insightful, sometimes less because Mike Zimmer could really cut through everything with, you know, two or three words sometimes. But, um, I think that that is absolutely the biggest storyline of this year is what is their playing style going to be, uh, under Kevin O'Connell. So, uh, those are kind of, you know, some of the hints that I think they're going to throw more short passes.

I think they're going to be more aggressive on fourth down, but we're going to have to wait and see to know whether I'm right about that or not. So once again, appreciate you listening on your morning commutes and hope that answers your question. And also the number of fans who are similar to you that I've run into that said, the reason I'm a Vikings fan is, you know, Randy Moss was drafted to this team is amazing. Like there will never be, um, there will never be a player as influential as him as far as making people lifelong fans. Okay. Let's see here. Uh, this comes from andrew via the email i'm 29 years old and as far as i can remember the vikings have had an exciting defensive line daniel hunter everson griffin

linval joseph brian robison jared allen williams wall john randall and i obviously don't see them uh didn't see them but the legendary purple people eaters. Right. Of course. Is it just the nature of the position or has Minnesota been lucky? No, I think Minnesota has been lucky. I mean, there are a lot of teams that have great histories. I mean, you know, even if you look at somebody like the Rams, you can find, you can go back every decade and find great Rams. You can go to, you know, Kevin green back in the day was really good for them. Or you go all the way back. Uh, the Dallas Cowboys have had a lot of great pass

rushers and had those great defensive lines, the Pittsburgh Steelers. But I don't think there are too many franchises that could go toe to toe with the Minnesota Vikings historically, because you start with Alan page once won defensive MVP. How many defensive MVPs are there since I think the last one happened in 1986. So that tells you how special that was for Alan Page. I mean, think about that. He and Carl Eller are in the pantheon of great defensive players in the history of this universe. And Jim Marshall is underrated as well and should be in

the hall of fame, but you have every era, especially though the nineties with John Randall and they had underrated guys too. I mean, Henry Thomas was a great defensive lineman as well. Chris Dolman, of course, is one of the best pass rushers of all time. No, I think that this has been a very lucky place. And then under Mike Zimmer, think about this. You draft Everson Griffin in the fourth round, Daniil Hunter in the third round. You pick up Linval Joseph as a free agent from the Giants, and for several years, he's one of the best players

at his position in the NFL. When he was fine with the Giants, but he was great as a Minnesota Viking, I think it's really a special situation. I do think, though, that there are more great defensive linemen sort of per capita today than there ever has been, where you'll look at teams and go, man, they have three, four different guys on their defensive line who can rush the passer and things like that. So I think that they have been very, very lucky throughout history. I mean, to land someone like John Randall, who was what, not drafted and undersized, and he turns out to be one of the best defensive linemen ever. I mean, they have really had a lot of these fall in their lap.

And the Williams wall, I mean, Pat Williams, Kevin Williams, another pair of guys who are just incredible players. And Kevin Williams, by his resume, has a case for the Hall of Fame, too, with six all pros, which you don't find too many players that have six all pros. Yeah, that's they would be very difficult to match. Maybe the Pittsburgh Steelers, if you just went one for one all time. And interestingly, wide receiver is the same way, right? Randy Moss, Chris Carter.

Now you have Jefferson, Stefan Diggs. I mean, the 49ers with Terrell Owens and Jerry Rice and Pittsburgh with their team going back, you know, a ways with them to John Taylor. No, I'm sorry. The John Taylor's the 49ers. I mean, John Stallworth, you know, I mean, they just like, wow, have incredible receivers, but there are very few teams that you could match up one for one with the Vikings at wide receiver or defensive line with their history, which is really amazing. Um, and the wide receiver part of it and the defensive line part of it make you go. If there was just that

one quarterback, if it was just that Peyton Manning or something, but they've been left out of that party and they've been blessed with defensive linemen and wide receivers. So I know, I think that you're right that not just for your lifetime, but through history, they'd be in the top three or five for defensive lines. If not number one, this comes from C Land Landstrom on Twitter.

Matthew, you're a great partner for The Daily Commute. Wonderful to hear another commuter listening in the car. Thought of this while driving home yesterday. What would be the all-time worst lineup of Vikings who have at least five starts? My immediate answer at cornerback was not Bashad Breeland, but he's likely on the other side with willie teal number 37 okay this one this one is tough because a lot of players come and go so if you're gonna take me back i'd have to do a lot of research to go back to the 80s and try to

figure out which linebackers were horrendous or which guards I can only give you the lineup of players that I've covered since 2016. So let me try to do it that way of the guys. And, uh, why, if any of them are listening to the podcast, I'm sorry, but it was a rough ride. So if we went, if we went lineup, let's see now quarterback is tough because from what I've covered, they've all been pretty good. Like Teddy Bridgewater, Case Keenum, and Case Keenum won, you know, led them to a 13 win season. I can't say Case is the worst quarterback. Like he was good that year. Sam Bradford was pretty good. Kirk Cousins is pretty good. It's probably Sean Mannion, right? Sorry, Sean Mannion, but that's gotta be the guy for anybody. He didn't have five starts, though,

so it doesn't really meet your criteria. But they have actually, for a team that lost Teddy Bridgewater since then, well, I guess they lost Bradford for a whole season as well. But during the Kirk era, he's been unbelievably healthy, and the only thing that took him out was the one game for COVID, but everything else, he's been healthy. So there hasn't been backup situations, but we'll still go Manion at quarterback. Wide receiver has to be for somebody who actually, you know, versus how much they played. It has to be Laquan to create separation, or just even take the coaching that Mike Zimmer and the receivers coaches were trying to help him with. And you can't blame the coaches because the other receivers were pretty darn good.

But I'll give you the underrated one. And I don't know if this guy played five games. I think he maybe only played one or two. He definitely wasn't a starter. But Tajay Sharp is a Viking. I believe if I'm not mistaken, Tajay Sharp was signed and then targeted two times and both passes were bombs in very important situations that fell incomplete. There was one in opening week in 2020 against the Packers on a fourth down where cousins targeted Tajay Sharp instead of Adam Thielen. And then there was another one in Tampa Bay that they went for broke with Tajay sharp

and he had no catches. And I believe two targets and they were both an average throw of like 45 yards in the air. So there was, there was a lot of those that were kind of disasters. You might say Chad BB here with tons of respect for Beebe and the fact that he's made the NFL, but as somebody who was on the team for a while and played a lot, but there wasn't a whole lot to speak of. The offensive line is maybe the easiest to come up with names, but the hardest to decide which guy would be worse than the other. TJ Clemmings had the roughest ride of any player I've seen here. TJ Clemmings week after week after week,

just got absolutely punished and the team had no other options. They were out there trying to sign Jake long. They were Alex Boone. I remember was campaigning to move to left tackle because it was going so badly. He had a really, really, really, really tough time. Let's see. Well, gosh, I mean, Drew Samia was another one. I don't know if he got to five starts. Drew Samia was one where when he was drafted, everyone, the offensive line nerds, everybody was like, yeah, yeah, now that's a great pick. And then, and look, the guy certainly met the criteria when it came to a physical ability and how he looked. But once he got in the game, he just had no idea where to go or what to do.

And it was over instantly. And I believe he's out of the league. It was just, it was like, this guy is so far in over his head. He cannot play it's over. We're done here. Um, Pat Elfline was a good player in 2016, no 2017. But then after his injury, that was where I felt bad for him. I don't know if he's improved since he left the Vikings and gotten back to maybe full health. But once he had that injury, that was a tough watch. Like we've talked about how Garrett Bradbury has struggled I think Pat Elfline was worse when he got that injury at the NFC championship game so I would definitely put him up there right guard yeah right guard is Samia left guard I mean do I want to say Tom Compton I don't even think it was that bad with Tom Compton there was one game where he played Aaron Donald and got mauled. And that was the one where

you went, yikes. Uh, cornerback is Chris Jones. And I think many of you will remember him for not trying to tackle Tony Pollard. Chris Jones is up there for that reason. Um, defensive line, Jaleel Johnson, another guy who they just, they drafted and they played and they played and they played, and it was just never there. Jalen Holmes is another one. Well, any of you guys remember the Jalen Holmes era? He got a lot of playing time for somebody that got no pressures. I don't remember a single splash play from Jalen Holmes the entire time he was here. Um, Troy die is kind of approaching this at linebacker where he's been in some games and you're just not really happy if he's out there. I don't know that there's been safeties that have

struggled all that much. So those are kind of some of the guys that come to mind. And I always end up feeling bad for those guys. When you are in so far over your head that you're just getting whipped on every play, especially the offensive lineman and defensive lineman, where if you remember when New Orleans put up those 52 points, there were a lot of the backup players and they're just getting demolished by one of the best offensive lines in the league. That's really tough, but I mean, it's a ruthless question. See Landstrom. That's a ruthless question. Breland definitely does go up there for me because they just targeted him over and over and over and over. Like Patrick Peterson was talking about how he didn't get targets his way.

And I think what he's really talking about is everyone through at Bishad Breland all the time. Let me get in maybe one or two more here before we get to my interview with Mark Bullock. Okay. Uh, fans only question from Dustin five, five, two, two. What do you think the overall effect is going to be on the Packers after losing many top players, especially Adam Smith and MVS? And do you think the Vikings have a good chance of winning the division because of what has happened to the Packers this off season? Thanks.

I'll hang up and listen. The Devante Adams part is a big deal. Now last year they won 13 games without Zedaria Smith. So I would not say that's all that much of a concern for them. And if you look at their defense, they also didn't have Jair Alexander last year, and now he's back. He's one of the best corners in the NFL so that kind of evens out a little bit on the defensive side there's a lot of talent there but not having Devante Adams is a big deal so they draft a receiver in Christian Watson and they're hoping that the guy can come in right away and make an impact but I mean do we really trust aaron rogers to bring a rookie wide receiver along i would say no and so now we got to look at i mean i have to pull up their depth chart to see who the other receivers are other than alan lazard because i mean you've got amari rogers

who didn't do a whole lot last year someone named romeo dubs d-O-U-B-S, who I don't know much about. Sammy Watkins, who has been completely inconsistent. Is Dubes a rookie? He must be, right? Okay. Yeah. He's a fourth round pick this year. Of course. Of course. Why didn't I memorize my fourth round draft picks of the Packers? But yeah, so fourth round draft pick out of Nevada, someone named Malik Taylor. I mean, this is just Randall Cobb is back. How old is Randall Cobb? I, that, that is a big thing. They do get Robert Tunyon back. He was not with them last year. And, uh, I think the offensive line is really excellent. If, and only if David Bakhtiari can come back. And Aaron Rodgers said something like, if Bakhtiari returns the other day in an interview,

that is a big concern for them because Bakhtiari is an elite player when he's playing, but he had that ACL thing that's kept him out for a very long time. Elgin Jenkins is also coming off an injury. Josh Myers is also coming off an injury, but if their offensive line is healthy, they will still have a great offense. Aaron Rodgers is their quarterback. I think I saw a

stat that they won every game Devante Adams missed. So it's not like Aaron was just going to be like totally baffled, not know what to do, but there's not much there. Alan Lazard, Christian Watts, and Sammy Watkins, Robert Tunyon is gotta be a bottom seven, if not worse group of weapons. And Rogers has been selling the whole Lazard is underrated thing. I mean, I could be, but yeah, I, I'm, I'm not very trusting of, of what they have as far as the weapons go, but they do have an excellent running game. They do have an excellent offensive line and their defensive line can be flat out. Terrific. Rashawn Gary is one of

the best pass rushers in the league. Preston Smith is good. Dean Lowry, Kenny Clark are great. Their secondary is very good. I mean, this is, can you win the division? Yes. Is that possible? Yes. When I look at the Packers team though, the only weakness I see is that they lost Devante Adams out of the entire roster. So I don't, and they have the back-to-back MVP quarterback. I mean, I don't think you're winning the division, but it is certainly possible. I it's just hard to buy that one player leaving because guys get hurt in the NFL all the time would have this effect to make them collapse so if the Vikings could get to 11 wins yeah because I don't think that Green Bay's winning 13 again if it's 11 then you've got a shot but they've got to get to 11 I think that you'd want to hear me say that the Packers are a disaster

and I don't think that's quite the case yet, but I guess we'll, we'll watch their health to wait and find out. All right. One more question. Cause we're, we're rolling here and I spent too much time telling you where I came from at the beginning. So, uh, this from, uh, average Vikings fan, AVG Vikings fan, should Vikings fans continue to pass on their fandom to their children? Or end the generational pain and suffering? I became a fan because of my dad, and he became a fan because of my grandpa. I feel like most fans become groomed in this way.

Personally, I don't want my kids to go through what I have every fall. Okay, well, let me say this. Let me say this. when I was about, I want to say 13 or 14, I decided I just didn't really want to root for the Buffalo bills, which is funny because the way it turned out was I became a journalist that covers the league objectively. And when I was about that age growing up in Buffalo, I just decided I didn't want to cheer for them. Like I didn't pick another team. I was about that age growing up in Buffalo, I just decided I didn't want to cheer for them. Like I didn't pick another team. I was just going to watch the NFL and play Madden. And whoever I was playing Madden with that year was kind of my team.

And I went year by year. So one year I played with the Tommy Maddox Pittsburgh Steelers because I had watched Tommy Maddox in the XFL. And that was my team that year. I was not going to root for Drew Bledsoe as a Buffalo Bill. And they let Antoine Winfield go, which you guys know how ridiculous that is that they let Antoine Winfield go. I mean, you know, look, so, um, you know, I decided I was just kind of done. They had the music city miracle.

It just really wasn't, you know, didn't like the whole thing at that point. And my dad carried on and still loves the bills today. And it took 20 years, but he finally got a quarterback in Josh Allen and his team is finally deep in the playoffs every year. And this year they're a potential Superbowl team. And had I remained a bills fan and kept that bond. Now I still talk a lot of football with my dad. Okay. So it's not like I cut my dad out of my life because he was rooting for JP Lossman, but, but, but those were some tough times where he would try to talk him into himself into it and it would never work. And, uh, you know, Oh, you know, I really liked this Kelly Holcomb or whatever. It would just, it was tough, but we, you know, eventually would have gotten there. Had I stayed with that and we had watched

it all and gone through it all together, we would have eventually got to a point where we were cheering together the Buffalo bills of now, which are a really great team. a lot can change. I mean, if you were a Vikings fan, for example, in say the eighties, you grew up in the eighties watching with your dad, you got to 98. Now I know it ends up in heartbreak, but imagine watching that season and it doesn't have to be your dad, but your, you know, your family, that kind of thing that if it's a generational thing and you're all huge Vikings fans, like imagine how great that would have been to have seen Randy Moss come on the scene all together and enjoy that together. So I think that's what it's really about. Uh, it's kind of, it's like a meme a little bit. It's the friends we made along the way, but that kind of is what it is. It's like, it's not being a fan of a team is not necessarily about

just a championship. That's what, that's how I look at it as a journalist. So I, I sit there and think of every move and everything they do, every player they sign, every play they call as in you have to win. It's about a championship. But when you're talking about being a fan of a team as part of a family, I mean, do you want to be the guy who's like, no, go Chargers or something like, come on, you know, like guys stop watching that Vikings game. The Patriots are on. Like, do you want to be that guy? Like, probably not.

And I think that over a long period of time, every NFL franchise kind of gets their day and the Vikings has come and they haven't finished the job, but it will come again. And so you go through it all with your family. It's part of the thing that bonds you together. And when you get to that time where your team is great every year and you can win a championship every year, which eventually will come. It's pretty great for you. And it's pretty great for your family and your friends to all enjoy that together. And to remember all those things that happen and talk about all those things happen and go to the games and, you know, get excited about preseason games, all those things. When you get there.

I think that's more of what it's about. If you told your child, you can't be a Vikings fan because Gary Anderson missed in 98, like even a five-year-old is not going to understand that, you know, like imagine trying to explain that to a child. No, you can't root for daddy's team. They'll miss a field goal on you and ruin your life. Uh, so that, I guess that's what I would say is that it's much more about the bonds that you make in watching your team than it necessarily is about the championship. But this franchise has

had it as tough as any franchise has ever had it in all of sports to be that close so many times. And I'm sure that it is blackened your soul, but you know, maybe your kid will grow up with things better than, than you. So, okay, well, that's it for now for the fans only portion of this and this episode, I know I said earlier, they're not going to be crazy long. So this episode would be a little longer. Um, cause Mark Bullock from, uh, his website, they're covering Washington is coming up next on the show. But I've just really enjoyed a lot of these fan questions and we're going to continue doing them.

Projections and predictions week also with a lot of different fan predictions for the 2022 season that I'll be breaking down, possibly making fun of and, you know, things like that. So we'll have a really fun time this week. So I will talk to you all later. Here's my conversation with Mark Bullock. Mark Bullock, one of my favorite people, former Washington post, former athletic writer. Now does his own thing.

Just like me on substack, Mark Bullock at a dot substack.com. So as the schedule comes out, I'm sure you do this. I do this. We go through and put the little W's and L's and write about what we think the team's going to do for their record, because that's the only thing to do when the schedule comes out.

And I said to you on Twitter and asking you to come on, what I love about this game is Washington fans are writing a W next to the Vikings game and Vikings fans are writing a W next to the Vikings game and Vikings fans are writing a W next to the Washington game. So intensely tell me, I mean, I want you to pretend this game is upon us, who you think will win that football game and why? Yeah, I mean, intense, Mark, intense, right? So I mean, I could argue for either way because that game conveniently comes between when Carson Wentz,

I think the Colts game, when Carson Wentz is playing the Colts again, is the week before the Vikings game. And then the week after is when they play the Eagles. The double revenge game, yeah. So it's in between those two revenge games. So it's kind of hard to say exactly how it's gonna go because if if he's on a high from beating the colts they they could maintain that and keep it against the vikings and then against the eagles um but if you know that

that revenge game does not go well then suddenly they're in a lull uh and it could stretch on for a couple weeks so it's hard to say um I think you could make an argument either way. As you say, it's the kind of game where both teams are kind of decent, but not great and not horrible. And it's one of those games where every fan base is looking at that team and going, our team could be them. Yeah, we'll write that down as W. And, you you know they might

be right they're right 50 at the time because that all the teams are are in that kind of category or all kind of mix and match of decent so uh i i did probably put it down as a win but um you could just as easily convince me that they'd lose that game. I'm only going to give you like a three out of 10 for intense. You're not ramped up for football here. No. So this, the thing about Washington is that they're being very much forgotten in any NFC conversation. However, when you look at the whole roster, you go, Oh, Oh, they got that guy. That's right. They got that guy.

And Curtis Samuel was someone where I thought last year wow he's going to add a lot to that offense and then Fitzpatrick gets hurt right away Samuel's hurt most of the year Taylor Heineke is just giving it the old college try but it's Taylor Heineke and still Washington comes away with seven wins despite the Taylor Heineke-ness and with Carson Wentz as disappointing as Carson Wentz has been in the subsequent years after he was very, very good in 2017, he was at his best with a team that had a very good offensive line in Philadelphia and lots of weapons to work with. And last year, even though he was a complete roller coaster in Indianapolis, I think if he

wins that one game that he was supposed to win against Jacksonville and goes to the playoffs, he's probably still an Indianapolis Colt. It's like, they really just couldn't forgive him for playing that badly and losing that game. And then, you know,

of course it always comes out that he's hard to deal with and everything else. Any, any player who disappoints and doesn't meet expectations also goes along with that. Not that I don't believe it. I'm just saying that that narrative always gets written about quarterbacks when they let you down and not when they're succeeding, but they're hard to deal with. But the supporting cast has to be, what would you put it, top three in the NFC, top five in the NFC?

Yeah, it's certainly up there. And I think the thing that they've done this year is they've really expanded the different personnel groups that they can do. And the way that Scott Turner runs his offense is he likes to run the same few plays over and over again to make it an easy read for the quarterback. But he likes to dress up those plays by using a bunch of different motions and a bunch of different formations and and being able

to switch personnel groups and bring in two tight ends or three tight ends or two running backs or three running backs or well maybe even a four wide receiver set um being able to flip through all those different personnel groups is is only going to play into that more and allow them to show a lot more different looks and give the defense a lot more to think about and then again that makes it very easy for the quarterback because that's disguising the same handful of concepts and so they only have to learn so many reads and master a certain amount of plays and so what they've done this year where they have, obviously Terry McLaurin's a stud, and hopefully the rest of the league knows that now, but certainly with hopefully Carson Wentz plays to a decent level

and is able to push the ball down the field more than, you know, the 30 yards that Taylor Heineke could manage. And that will let Terry McLaurin show the league that he is one of the top receivers in the league. And you have behind him, as you say, Curtis Samuel coming off his injury. Hopefully he's able to get back to what he did. They spent a first-round pick on Jahan Duttson, who they are very high on.

And last year they spent a third-round pick on Deami Brown, who a lot of people liked. And he didn't necessarily have the best rookie year, but he was learning a lot more complex of a route tree than what he did in college. So hopefully he takes a step forward. Now you've got four really solid receivers, and they've got Logan Thomas at tight end coming back from injury,

and then they drafted Cole Turner, and he's a promising receiving tight end. And so they've got some depth there. They drafted another running back, so they've got some depth there they drafted another running back so they've got depth there so they've now got the ability to show a lot of different personnel and and attack defenses in a lot of different ways with different personnel groups and different options so um i i think that is going to give them a lot of ability to attack the bottom end of teams rosters like something that they've been speculating about doing is using a four receiver personnel group which isn't very common but

it diami brown their third round pick last year would be their fourth receiver um and he was their second receiver last year so if he's if he's going to be their fourth receiver then you're going to get a guy that they like matched up on someone's fourth corner. And, you know, not many teams have a decent fourth cornerback. So you're going to find a matchup that you like. So I think they have a good set of weapons. And I think they should, if Wentz plays to at least a mediocre level, I think they should be able to cause a lot of defenses issues. So here's something that comes to mind for me with this team

is they make the trade fairly early to get Carson Wentz and give up a decent amount, but not the whole franchise or anything like that. But Jimmy G and Baker Mayfield are still moseying about without jobs. Is there is there regrets for Washington, do you think? Because I mean, Jimmy G, I think is definitely better than Carson Wentz. Baker Mayfield, maybe there's a conversation to be had there, but I think that they're both better options than he is. How do you feel about that? I think it's about, you could probably say that in terms of production over the last few years, the 49ers got more out of Jimmy G than the Eagles or the Colts got out of Wentz. I think in terms of production over the last few years, the 49ers got more out of Jimmy D than the Eagles or the Colts got out of Wentz.

I think in terms of style of what they want to do on offense, Scott Turner likes to push the ball down the field, and he's not been able to do that because he's had Taylor Heineke and Alex Smith and about 40 other quarterbacks coming in and playing, and none of them have been able to push the ball down the field. And what Wentz gives them that none of them have been able to push the ball down the field um and and what wentz gives them that uh jimmy g wouldn't be able to is is the arm strength um to drive the ball down the field and and take those shots and and it was very frustrating watching washington last year because in probably a certain group of kurt cousins i won't say fans

but vikings fans that uh Kirk Cousins would probably relate to this is that they'll see a receiver on film running open deep and being available and the quarterback having time and not being able to hit him for whatever reason. And that was basically most of Terry McLaurin's year last year was even though he put up a thousand yards and had a very good season, he probably could have had at least another couple hundred yards on top of that if a quarterback was able to push the ball down the field to him and not underthrow him every time he was open deep. So I think that's what attracted them to Carson Wentz,

is his ability to attack down the field. And I think the regret would be that they not that they traded for wentz but what they gave up necessarily to give him and yeah like it's come out since then that the eagles sorry the colts were saying that oh yeah we were going to cut him anyway we did a great job getting what we did and you never really know if anyone else was in the bidding for him but it doesn't sound like many people were rushing to get him. And Washington kind of jumped in and they went from a low offer of something like the reports were something like a fourth and a sixth to suddenly giving a second and a third that could become another second or something like that, whatever it was this year. And then they didn't do anything to negate the kind of big cap hit that he came with.

I think that was the mistake is I don't mind them necessarily giving up the compensation that they gave up if they managed to get the Colts to take some of that cap hit. But the fact that they gave up two high picks and took on that cap hit for a guy that nobody else was rushing out for, I think that would be the regret because they then had to make moves to give themselves some cap space to sign their draft class and, and try to find some room to then, you know, they, they're still working on a try to try to work out contracts extension with Terry McLaurin. So they're trying to find the cap space to do that. And if they didn't take on the big hit from Carson Wentz, they they'd be able to have added more and been more aggressive in free agency because

they didn't sign hardly anyone in free agency the guys they did sign were all guys that played for the panthers under rivera at one point and were basically cheap guys that are going to be here for a year or two um so they didn't make any kind of splashes. So being able to negate some of that hit from Carson Wentz and then have a little bit more flexibility would have been nice. But I think in terms of those quarterbacks that are available, I think they probably still would pick Carson Wentz over Jimmy G and Baker Mayfield just because his ability to drive the ball down the field. Is there mystery left with Carson Wentz? Because we talk about this and you referenced the Kirk Cousins,

like you and I have this shared connection of having watched a lot of Kirk Cousins in our life. Too much some might say. For me, there's just no more mystery left in Kirk Cousins. And that mystery was gone, I think probably in 2019. That look, I mean, this is what it's going to be. And 2019 was probably the best it was ever going to be with the team that they had. But, you know, we still do this thing from time to time where it's, well, you know, they brought in a new head coach and he's going to

do some different things. And it's, it's even funny when you talk about how like Scott Turner is talking about using motions and things like that. It's like, yeah, you know, Kevin O'Connell is not the only one that knows about offensive innovations in the league. It's actually a lot of people, including some of the former Vikings offensive coordinators and some of the offensive coordinators like Sean McVay that Kirk worked with in the past. So to me, that's not the mystery. The mystery is how hard the schedule is. It's how Kevin O'Connell coaches a lot of different areas. It's whether the defense improves and then Kirk will be Kirk and how much you

get out of it depends on those other things. But with Wentz, he seems to be a guy that whenever he comes up on a national show or something, it's like, well, you know, like, can he take that next step and do that other thing because he did that thing once. How do you feel about that yeah i think there's a degree of what you're talking about with with wentz of of you know like well maybe if if it's in this situation but i think there is a little bit of truth in that in that he went from the

eagles which was you know doug peterson and frank reich to the colts which was frank reich so he's basically been in the same offense, the same system, and running the same stuff his whole career. And it's just been a different group of players around him. And some of that Eagles offense kind of fell away a little bit in his last few years there. And then the Colts last year were, he didn't actually play bad through a lot of the season. They kind of shifted a main mentality into being a run first team

which I mean when you have the guys like Quinton Nelson and Jonathan Taylor that the Colts have you would do that um and they didn't have a whole lot of receivers they had Michael Pittman who was great but outside of him they didn't have a a great receiving group so um it made sense that they they went to that running game but that then was taking that was the focus of the offense it wasn't about Carson Wentz was about running the ball um and so this offense for Washington is going to embrace his uh his willingness to attack down the field because that's what the system that Turner runs is about. It's about attacking down the field and he's not been able to do that. So I think he's going to be eager to really call those plays, take those shots and let

Wentz drive the ball. And as we talked about, they have a nice set of weapons for them um and you mentioned the offensive line um that was amazing last year especially considering the injuries they had they they would answer like their fourth center who was actually their primary backup guard to start the year and he was in the playing center and and that meant that they were on their fourth and fifth guard and they they used their second and third tackle at certain points they had so many injuries but the offensive line maintained a pretty high standard and one of the better offensive lines in the league statistically so um i think it's a decent supporting cast for him um and certainly in terms of weapons it might be the deepest group of weapons

that he's had in his career um and it's going to be an offense that suits what he wants to do which is drive the ball down the field so there is a little bit of well maybe it'll work with us even though it hasn't worked with us as recently um but um there is some truth that at least it's at least it's not you know they've hired frank reich and they're they're bringing him once again to to run the same thing back. At least it's a new system. It's a completely new team and a different philosophy and a different message for him to work with. So I think that is the optimistic version of that. It is a little bit of the Arrested Development meme of like, what if it works for us exactly that's what i was thinking yeah it's it's 100 that but um there is enough of a difference between what washington has and

what he had with the eagles and the colts that that that makes you think that it might work out and the thing is with with the with the colts last year he was going to a team that had gone from peyton Manning to Andrew Luck to Philip Rivers. So that standard of QB play was pretty damn high. And then he comes to Washington and it's been Taylor Heineke and like Kirk Cousins is the best quarterback Washington's had in the last decade. And they've dropped off significantly since Kirk Cousins. So the bar is very, very low in Washington. If he can, if he can throw the ball 50 yards without it dying on him and the

receivers having to turn around and come back to the ball, he's, he's going to be basically the new God in Washington. So I think that probably helps him as well. That's what Carson Wentz needs is a lower standard of all you have to do is beat out a former St. Louis battlek backup quarterback and you'll be good uh be better than mark sanchez or josh johnson were as well exactly quarterbacks it's a very low bar we've had in washington for a few years and um i think as

if he can play even to like a top 20 or top 15 quarterback kind of in that middle level if he can be the 15th best quarterback in the league, that is probably 15 or 16 spots higher than what Washington's had for the last decade. Is the standard pretty much just make the playoffs for Washington? I think so. That that's kind of how Rivera has bigged it up this, this year.

He's he's since he's been here, he's talked about it's going to be a three to five year rebuild. And he keeps referencing his first few years with the panthers they were so and so but they were installing that philosophy and then they were um building a foundation and then that third year was the year that they took a step forward and really competed for the playoffs and i think the fact that the nfc east was so terrible in his first year and they made the playoffs last year or not the year gone but Rivera's first year um by you know having the best losing record I think they were like seven and nine that year um and the NFC East was horrific and that made them win the division um I think that raised expectations last year a little bit and and

probably put them ahead of the track they should have been on. But this year Rivera's saying, keeps emphasizing that the third year is when we took the step forward with the Panthers. And, and, and this is going to be the year where we're going to get that good quarterback in and we're, we're going to really compete and challenge. So I, he's essentially set the bar at, we're going to compete for the playoffs.

And if they don't make the playoffs, then I think that's a failure. So I have a philosophical football question for you, because I was listening to Steve Palazzolo talk with Greg Rosenthal on the PFF podcast. And Greg Rosenthal said that he thought that you need around 40 good players to be a real competing team, good or great players. And I thought that was like an interesting number that he decided to pick. Like that's almost an entire starting lineup. Obviously you don't get a lot of depth players in the NFL in general, but it's something that's really hurt the Vikings is to not have a lot of depth. And when I looked at Washington's roster before we talked and how some guys performed last year and so forth because i have to tell you the truth i was not going out of my way to watch those taylor heineke games i was looking what

everybody did last year but i do read your stuff and uh your analysis of some players some like sam cosme you wrote about their right tackle who i didn't know it played pretty well um but i feel like washington has that i'm not sure the Vikings have that. I think Vikings have some higher end guys than that, but I don't think they have 40 good players. That would be if I'm making a case for, hey, Washington ends up surprising and the Vikings go into that matchup feeling like, oh man, this is like way tougher than we thought

this was going to be when we wrote out that schedule. I think it's just because of the sheer number of players they built up. And when you look at the roster top to bottom, I think it's fair to say that they should compete. It's just that the Eagles are getting a lot more attention and are probably a little better. And then Dallas won 12 games last year. So they deserve to have that, uh, that hype.

But I think that people in Washington can make the, uh, the, the argument that this team in the NFC should be a fringe playoff team as long as Carson Wentz doesn't completely annihilate all hopes of that. Yeah, I think from in terms of the roster, they they don't necessarily have the star power that they might have had in years gone by. Like they had a Trent Williams and they had Sean Jackson and Jordan Reed was one of the better tight ends in the league and um you know they they had some star power but they didn't have any depth but this year certainly on offense and I think that kind of speaks to that offensive line point I was talking about last year they went to through so many offensive linemen and and offensive line is one of the hardest groups to have depth in the NFL. And usually if you lose a starting guard or a backup guard and a backup

center, that, that, that's a huge point for the offense to really struggle and defenses to attack. And Washington went through that last year and, and they were still able to put together a competent starting offensive line that they were able to still run the ball effectively and and they they were able to do some play action stuff to make things easier for them and they were still able to pass protect um with with some little help here and there and schematically but um yeah i think the depth is what what helps them they they don't have the star power up top

um they don't have they maybe have one or two like a plus players like terry mclaurin and if chase young performs and to his ability and and jonathan allen are probably up there but everyone else is probably more bc grades but it's it's a lot more full of bc grade players than um a lot of teams that will go more down the, will have five or six A-plus players, but nothing else behind them. And so, yeah, I think in terms of the NFC East, when you look at Washington last year, they won seven games. And as you mentioned earlier, it was with Taylor Heineke at quarterback. And they managed to struggle their way through what was, I think, either the hardest or the second hardest schedule in the league. And they won seven games.

And that was with Taylor Heineke, who started the year as the second hardest schedule in the league. And they won seven games. And that was with Taylor Heineke, who started the year as the backup behind Fitzpatrick. But Fitzpatrick played a quarter and a half of a game. And then Heineke was the quarterback the rest of the way. And as I say, the offensive line, they had a bunch of injuries. Curtis Samuel played about 10 snaps all season. And they had some stuff like both Chase Young and Montez Sweat got injured and missed most of the season as well.

So they had a lot of injuries and they had a COVID outbreak at one point and stuff like that. So when you look at all of that and you look at this year, they've now got a significant upgrade at quarterback. They've got a much easier schedule on paper. I think it goes from being one of the toughest to now being like the second or third easiest schedule at least on paper um so you combine those kind of factors with well they still managed to win seven games last year an easier schedule better quarterback

and hopefully everyone's back healthy it's not unreasonable i don't think to think that they could win eight or nine or ten games and add three maybe four wins to that their schedule um from last year so um but yeah as you mentioned as you mentioned that that relies on carson wentz not being horrific right or injured which yeah he does get banged up quite a bit and then uh are you is it still heineke is he still the backup it would be heineke or they drafted sam howell after he fell all the way to the fifth round um right and you know there's there's always the uh the quarterback controversy but i i don't think that we'll see him play this

year yes we spent far too much time on the show talking about sam howell for him to go in the fifth round but what are you gonna do um? Okay. Before I let you go, Mark, always enjoyed the discussion. I have to give you a little Washington football team trivia as we do sometimes on the show when we have reporters for other teams. So the all time running lists, total rushing yards for Washington number one and number three are guys who played in the sixties and seventies slash eighties,

John Riggins and Larry Brown. Can you name number two through seven? So the top five that played after John Riggins in Washington football, running back history, including one Minnesota Viking mixed in. I'd imagine Clinton Portis would be up there. Number one. Yep.

Number one. That's not John Riggins. Yep. After him. Not to be mistaken with Tim Riggins. Friday Night Lights. Anybody. Okay.

Sorry. No, I am. After Clinton Portis, I'm trying to think of standout running backs. Alfred Morris had quite a few yards, but he didn't have longevity, but you got it. Yep. No, he's there.

This is why it makes it great because there's kind of like some really random names on here. Uh, yeah. So it's, uh, Riggins Portis, Larry Brown was the other guy that played in the sixties and seventies. Alfred Morris is fifth all time. Right. Okay. Um, so who would be who'd be fourth so you mentioned a carolina panthers connection there was a guy who went on to

bigger stardom with carolina but was a great washington footballer i should know that one and i should know that he's a star. He was a star for a while. Okay, you've also got a former Viking and a guy who famously fumbled for another team. Well, for some reason, when you say fumble, I can only think of Mark Sanchez, and he's not running for any yards. No, this was not a butt fumble.

This was a playoff fumble for cleveland um no my names are escaping me right now ernest beiner is uh seventh on the list all time okay and uh so you're you're not getting the former Carolina Panther, who was kind of a big star from 96 to 2002. Yeah, see, that was just before I started following the NFL. Stephen Davis is that guy. Oh, I do know Stephen Davis. Yes, I do know Stephen Davis, but the name was escaping me. And the other one that was a Viking briefly was Terry Allen.

Oh, okay. So, Oh, okay. Yeah. 1995, 1993. That is a random list of names. I know. That's why I love it.

I was pulling it up and looking like, okay, so what can I throw at you? That might be kind of funny. Like Lindell Betts is not that far out of here. Adrian Peterson cracks. I am not kidding. The top 20 of all time,

Washington. Like this is a team that was known for running the ball in the 70s and 80s and winning super bowls through you know largely running the football and everything else past that is mostly hilarious including trading champ bailey for portis for clinton portis right and the second round pick what a franchise history it's horrific it's absolutely horrific can i ask you how you decided to start following them or was it like uh just a random thing uh no uh when i was younger uh when i was five we moved out to the states as a family my dad had a job working with the the ministry of defense so the mod over here, and they were doing a joint thing with the US.

So we moved out, and we moved out just outside DC. So I didn't really follow Washington sports at that point. I was kind of too young, and I was just getting into it when we moved back just before I turned 10. And so I kind of fell out of American sports then, but as they came on tv and more popular over here i figured that given that i lived just outside dc i would kind of follow the dc sports teams and and that led me to the washington team and here you are uh well and

what a ride it's been all right that uh people pay you to write about it. Yeah. You wouldn't have guessed that when you were 10. That's still crazy to me. I don't know why. Because your work is excellent. And that's why you're on the show. Mark Bullock, B-U-L-L-O-C-K. Just like the old linebacker,

Keith Bullock. Mark Bullock NFL is on Twitter. Mark Bullock dot sub stack.com. Always great stuff, man. Really enjoy getting together and having some fun talking. And that game that that will I think that's one that we're underrating in Minnesota, but we'll see.

So we will talk again before that for sure. Thanks for coming on, man. Anytime. Anytime.