Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - What would the Vikings look like if they had hired Jim Harbaugh?

Episode Date: June 2, 2022

Associated Press Vikings reporter Dave Campbell talks about what has most drawn his interest with the Vikings' offseason, what position he's keeping an eye on in OTAs and whether it's more windy than normal this spring in Minnesota. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here along with the Associated Press's Dave Campbell inside TCO Performance Center. What's up, Dave? How are you? I'm doing great. Nice day out of practice today. Beautiful weather. Elite weather, maybe, PJ Fleck would say. Absolutely. You got to build it one brick at a time. Actually, no, that was Jerry Kill. That's not a fleckism. No. Anyway. We were, I don't know. I guess we could have been out on a lake rowing a boat, potentially, with the weather being

as nice as it is. Right. Maybe you could tie it in that way. We're in a windowless room with a couple of microphones talking about an NFL practice that took place in June. You know, we could have done this outside, Dave, if you had asked. It'd be far too windy. We know.

Tempting fate. dave if you had asked it'd be it'd be far too windy we we know that tempting fate it i have to say of all the things about the midwest is it like is this year unique for the wind it feels like it's just windy all the time though and i like to play golf and i like to play basketball outdoors and i also just don't like when it's 68 but it feels like it's 48 because the breeze is blowing through your skull uh today was not really that case it was sort of pleasant out there but uh wind is maybe the worst thing in the entire world wind is picking up it's more than i remember it's it's a it's a new thing i don't know We'll see if it lasts more than this year. Wind these days, folks. It's a copycat league, so we'll see if 2023 wants to replicate 2022's weather.

I wonder what the most windy, this is what you tuned in for, is the most windy city. It can't be Chicago. That's got to be a myth, right? Right. That was because of politics, not because of actual wind. It was? Yeah. No. No, seriously. Really? Look it up was because of politics, not because of actual wind. It was? Yeah. No.

No, seriously. Really? Look it up. Yeah. I'm in the middle of it. Wellington, New Zealand is the windiest city in the world. Okay. So shout out Wellington.

The United States, Oklahoma City, and actually where I came from, Buffalo, New York. But I knew that. There you go. It's right next to the Great Lakes. Yeah. On the wrong side of the Great Lakes. And Milwaukee. Sure. Dallas, Texas. Makes sense. Let's see where we rank. Everyone just wait. Everyone who's listening today. I'll figure this out. No, Chicago is in the top 10. Okay. Right.

But the nickname came from actually we're ahead. We're ahead. We are in the top. Windier than Chicago. Actually, this has, this has, uh, let's see average annual wind speed of the windiest us cities. So Boston is number one, Oklahoma city, Buffalo, Milwaukee, Dallas, Kansas city, San Francisco, naturally Cleveland, Ohio, Minneapolis, Virginia beach. Cause it's next to the ocean, uh, Providence, Rhode Island, Chicago, and Detroit, Michigan. So that's the whole podcast folks. And, we'll talk to you later. No.

Um, okay. So here's what I wanted to ask you, Dave, because I, I said, no, no show prep here.

I didn't invent any games for you. It's not going to be. Yeah, I know. Right. Since I spent the whole time looking up wind. Um, but maybe I guess what that says is that your idea that the wind has changed is maybe like these NFL coaches being like, yeah, it's a different league.

Now we run the ball a little less. Like, really, that's been kind of going that way for 20, 30, 40, 50. Like the league has been going toward passing always. So maybe that's the same thing with you and wind. But here's what i wanted to ask you i wanted to know i wanted to at what age no this is not the question at what age do you start saying you know i don't remember it being that way when i was growing up really good question uh 30 maybe yeah i feel like mid-30s yeah like when did I start doing that? I do say that a fair amount.

All the time. I'm now 43, so I'm kind of in that sweet spot of, you know, back in my day, kind of recollection of weather, sports maybe. Weather specifically. Just about anything. Yeah. For sure around 30 where you start to notice sons of players who you watch growing up. Or when you start to notice sons of players who you watch growing up.

Or when you start to make comparisons of players when you're like, you know, that guy reminds me a lot of Sean Salisbury. Actually, that's where I cut myself off. I hate those kind of comparisons. Oftentimes they devolve into like really lazy race-based comparisons like, you know, the white receivers. But to your general point, yeah, you start to – the sons of players, oof, that really is a humbling moment when you see the, you know, it feels like just a few years ago when, you know, name the player. Bobby Witt.

Yeah, right, yeah. I'm just trying to fit ball right and then his right his son is now a star yeah exactly i know i actually deleted it i started to write a tweet because i harass intern paul about this all the time or professional paul now uh just about old player references and so when he tweeted about bobby witt., I was just like, oh, no, I did tweet at him like 95 Marlin. Yeah, there you go. His dad was 95 Marlin. Paul's like, what? You know that, Paul?

Yeah. Were you alive in 95? He wasn't even close. No, not even. What do they say? A glimmer in his parents' eye or something? Wow. Yeah, it's gone in a bad way to start this.

I will say it's always a comfort when Tom Brady decides to play again because he remains the only player in the league older than me. Is that true? Yeah. Okay, so I will later this month be 36. So I've got to be running up against only kickers. Yeah, kickers and quarterbacks. Is Phil Dawson still around?

Jeff Fegels. Mason Crosby. Is he still playing? As long as Rodgers plays, he gets the kick, right? Crosby's still, yeah. Yeah. Okay. He's good. Shout out Mason Crosby for being older than me in the league. What I actually wanted to ask about is what has interested you about the events of this off season. Because we were just out of practice, and we could talk about some things related tangentially to that. But, I mean, OTA practices are a tough watch. I mean, especially when they know we're there

and they go out of their way not to do anything super fast or aggressive. It's like, well, Adam Thielen caught the ball. I bet he'll do it again. But I want to know from the whole offseason, because we haven't really talked since the whole thing, changing coaches, changing general managers, and your perspective and what is interesting to you? I'd say two things.

The first is sort of the philosophical paper trail behind who they decided to hire in this new regime. Going so hard and heavy on collaboration, relationship building. Sort of, you know, not just the analytics with Kwesi obviously bringing with his such unique background. But just the whole whole you don't want to say i'm not going to say kumbaya so much but these guys having covered other teams in this market it's and followed all the major sports you this is not a new thing um but it's relatively new um but certainly the vikings are not anywhere near the first team to start to realize

that there is a formula for winning, doing things in a smarter way, but part of that is humane. It's not just data. It's like building relationships with today's player, meaning in your 20s, the really young millennials are, you know, basically in that it's starting to become some Generation Z now too, but they want to know why things are done. There's just a generational expectation of having work environments that are, you know, more relaxed, more maybe intentional, innovative. There's a lot of different ways you can look at it, but that's one thing that struck me. The two guys that I hired, there's a lot of overlap now with corporate America,

the way that they talk about building a team, about supervising employees, and giving them opportunities to do a media interview or some of the things that he was allowed to or really pushed in to do in Cleveland a short time there. Andrew Barry really got him going. He wants you to do everything. And so that's part of that bigger picture, I think, of having a work environment that is player-friendly, I guess we'll call it,

but it just feels more like 2022 and not 1992. Having even, I mean, I said pick 1992. That was when I was in early high school, and football practice then was so much the old guard, pre-Corey Stringer collapsing on the field and water was denied as a form of punishment type of thing. We're obviously way past that in the NFL, even under Zimmer. Post-2011 CBA, post-lockout, a lot of practice relaxation rules uh came into play you know the players

had a fair amount of concessions in that as far as how many days off they're required to get and reductions in two days and that type of thing but comparing the previous regime to this one they targeted two replacements for the two guys that were dismissed that were very much in a hard turn away from just styles and and philosophies and and frankly age do you think about jim harbaugh at all like no the candidates i stopped thinking about him on february 2nd when they decided not to offer him the job okay but let's think let's think about jim harbaugh for a second yeah because you're absolutely right that the top story and the most interesting thing about this team is whether that all matters right and we're going to find that out but i think about ryan poles and

jim harbaugh sometimes sure and i think about how close it was to being very different than that yeah because i don't get the sense that ryan poles is i mean he said well he likes analytics and stuff but i mean at this point if you're not using if if you're claiming your team isn't using data you're just lying yeah exactly like teams in the nfl have always used everything at their disposal to win. And maybe the head coach doesn't fully understand it, but the team is doing it right. Ownership wants you to be doing it. And that has always been the case. I think it's always been moving forward in that way. So in 2022, Ryan Poles wouldn't say like, oh, what, you number nerds? You just wouldn't hear that, right? You'd be probably fired pretty quickly. But not as much of a person with a background of building models as Kweisi Adafo-Mensa is capable of doing by himself.

And he was even talking about how much he's leaned on the analytics department to help him out and to do studies and to give him answers on things which he said clearly they weren't leaned on as much before and they've made that comment to him so it sort of gives you a tiny window into maybe maybe rick spielman used analytics but not to the level that quacey will and then with kevin o'connell you have a former player who is very obviously on the players coach side yes to the extreme maybe the most players coach or one of them in the league and he comes from one of the most players coaches in the league in sean mcveigh but you almost had a very different combination and i

wonder what we would be looking at it like would we have been looking at a full rebuild and building the team and jim harbaugh's vision would we have been looking at like something similar roster wise or would ryan poles have only taken the job if he could tear it down like he's done in chicago like i think about that a lot like how very different this scenario could look and feel than how it does now if the two second candidates had ended up getting hired that's that's a good point i i don't think about it nearly as much as you do but you should think about it now and it's a great topic um thank you yeah because it's not like since those guys got significant enough consideration to be in the in those final conversations it's not like the wilfs and and

the high level people who were part of the search just set out to we're gonna go find who fits this kevin o'connell box the best that you know that that stuff developed over the time of the uh of the conversations in the search process so you're. They all that you could very well argue that we could be covering and talking about a very different kind of vibe around here. I think that's a good segue into the second thing I was going to bring up about what is interesting to me about this off season is making those hires and then largely choosing to bring back the same team, whereas sort of you not making the more aggressive teardown type moves that you could have made. I think what's interesting about that is they are so process oriented, which fits with that kind of modern way of doing a workplace beyond sports is is that they i think are kind of confident um

very confident that they can um take what's here and let's let's apply our way of thinking our process to this current roster which certainly is plenty of talent to inherit right for a for new hire especially a duo like both roles when those roles get blown out usually the team's four and twelve right like it was they you know they've they can certainly thank the previous regime on some level for like continuing to try to run them back run it back because they now they get you know um sort of baseline of a competitive level team um but they, so that's interesting. I feel like you're probably right.

If it was the two other guys, better chance maybe that there's more different changes made to the roster. Either way, new guys come in with a leash. And so there's not that pressure to win now. So no way, shape, or form do i think the current guys are really uh have presented this roster in a way like they're feeling heat from the the wilfs that you you know you got to make the playoffs i don't i don't believe that yeah but they have well no pressure from them but i think pressure from fans yeah well sure yeah that's true and us like where do we stand in that because for me i i guarantee you

knowing you for as long as i have that we are in a different place on this i think if they don't go deep in the playoffs it's a massive failure oh wow that's that right I knew you would say wow. But because you decided to bring everyone back, your whole MO is essentially it was the last guy's fault. Now you can do better because you fixed all those things. And for me, if you're going to make that your statement by what you do, then we shouldn't reset where we have the expectations from where it was when they signed Kirk Cousins. Like I know things have changed, but when you're going to stay with the expensive quarterback

and you're not going to move this thing in a future direction as, as a, is kind of the modern thought if you're not first, you're last right. The Ricky Bobby, but like, right. If, if you're going to bring it all back and you're going to say that it was the previous regime's fault for not being analytical enough, not being modern modern enough not treating the players well enough then i'm going to hold you to the same standard that we did the last regime yeah that's where i look at it that's fair i guess i would just call it a swing and a miss it's on on this current roster and then then i assume if if they don't make the playoffs, you'll start to see more changes to the roster structure.

More of the older, more expensive guys will be shown the door more than this past offseason. But, you know, yeah, I guess a failure in that they should all of a sudden be on the hot seat entering year two? Well, so that's the question, right? I could definitely agree that their attempt at fielding a team in 2021 in that scenario, you know, like nine and eight, you know, failed all for one, I guess. But with the question about when you hire a new regime you know you have to be able to see it as a at least a three to five year project based on how you know the

nfl works so maybe longer can i exist in both worlds though like sure can i exist in the world of not saying that i think if kevin o'connell misses playoffs, he should be sent to the moon. Yeah. But also say that if, if they started out their regime and they got together and this involves the Wilfs as well, we can't count them out of this equation, but they got together and said, the answer is signings at area Smith. The answer is keeping Daniel Hunter. The answer is keeping Harrison Smith. And then it doesn't get farther than it did before. And then, and of course the biggest one, the answer is keeping harrison smith and then it doesn't get farther than it did before then and of course the biggest one the answer is keeping her cousins if that's what they all landed on

as the right way to go yeah and it doesn't go farther then what they've done is they've set themselves back on the process that might actually need to happen which is tearing a lot of pieces down which doesn't mean tank but it means like like really making moves that have the future in mind and if you didn't make moves that have the future in mind then and you didn't get to the playoffs then what did you do then you just stayed stagnant so we have we have to like hold them to that standard i think because they didn't do things that would help them for the future. Go to SodaStick.com. That is S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K. Our loyal sponsor.

Check out all of their great Minnesota themed gear for your playoff run in hockey or for baseball season. If you're headed out in the nice weather to a baseball game, that is S O T A S T I C K. So to stick.com hats, t-shirts hoodies. If you need them for a cool evening in the summer, so to stick.com has you covered. What it was interesting to me that they decided to bring back so many of

those expensive accomplished players, given their cap situation and how the last couple years have gone you know you're not coming off an nfc championship game appearance on the other hand i sit back and watch the the sort of bewilderment um from the fan base media and like why they decided to do that and like i don't know it's not it doesn't seem like so reckless to me i guess the the most reckless part would be to your point you know using up one year of their whatever kind of leash they've got to to build a winner to build a super bowl contender in the eyes of ownership that's i guess what's all that ultimately matters how how long that they're going to continue to keep them around. Certainly, they set a precedent with the previous regime that they'll wait a while.

Oh, yeah. They wait a while. So, yeah, I guess you could say it is the end. Even with patient owners, it's a really what have you done for me lately? League, for sure, super high turnover. So, yeah, I could look at that and say, you know, you're using up a precious year by doing it this way. But I also think, like, I don't know, still a lot of really good players.

The NFC is not all that deep. You know, you're not in the AFC West, for example. So, I don't know. It doesn't seem to be such a – and I don't even necessarily think it's some big middle finger to the previous regime, like we're smarter than you guys. I just think, eh, you know, here's what we – this is our first time in this. Here's how we think things work or would work well

to build a contending NFL team, and this is what we're going to try. And I don't know. There could also be, especially with Quasey's perspective coming in as a first-timer, even though he's from this economics-based kind of data-based decision-making that supposedly removes emotion and tries to just be more logical about about things rather than potentially irrational like some moves we've seen in the past with haste to like as the window maybe tightened on contending you know you would see certain

kickers cut and then you know certain moves made brought in that clearly were sort of reeking of, of emotion based kind of panic. Right. Um, that said, you know, he, who knows, we, we, we don't really know him well enough to know like how he's personally affected by just the pressure of the job. And so you almost get the sense that he was, he was still kind of treading lightly. Like, I don't know if i want to blow things up even if i you know i maybe it's better for me to just kind of do a soft launch here you know yeah and not necessarily thinking oh i'm so much smarter than the previous guy i

think we could get more out of these guys did you ever watch this again it's going to age us but like deal or no deal back in the day? Every once in a while. You know what it is. I'm more of a price is right kind of sick day guy, but yeah, for sure. But deal or no deal for those younger in the generation, let old Matt explain here to you. But where you open cases and, you know, they might have X number of dollars in them and then you keep going. And once you get past a certain threshold, you can lose everything if you keep going. Right.

And I think all of us at home are like, open the next one, open the next one. But when you're really there and you've got $50,000, they're like, if you open the next one, you could lose everything or get 250,000. And a lot of people were just like, ah, you know, I'm going to walk away. There's some elements of that in a lot of people were just like, I'm going to walk away. There's some element to that in a lot of things in life, but especially with sports decisions, it's like Kirk is the ultimate player of keep the 50,000. Absolutely, yes.

Because you could lose everything. And think about it this way. If they had moved on from Kirk and drafted Kenny Pickett, the only first round quarterback, and then if Kenny Pickett's hands are so tiny that he can't even hold an NFL football, I mean, immediately you are just out in the cold or, or some other quarterback is mad at his team and they trade them to you. And then you look like geniuses, right? Like those outcomes can go in a couple of different directions. And what they did was they chose to do what I do on the golf course a lot and pull out the four iron and hit it down the fairway, knowing we won't be terrible in year one, and then try to work around that, which it's a lot easier when there isn't that pressure.

And it isn't on your name on pro football reference, Kevin O'Connell, two and 14 or whatever, two and 15. It's a lot easier when it's not my name that goes on there. So I sympathize with that. But I also think that a lot of sports teams are willing to do that. I heard Arthur Smith the other day, the coach of Atlanta, talking about how, oh, nobody tanks. You fools don't know what you're talking about. Well, first of all, an NFL owner tried to pay his coach to tank. So yes, they do.

But also, I feel like there's an extremes way of looking at this that didn't have to be looked at that way. And it still doesn't necessarily. But it's like it's either tank or stick with it. Oh, yeah. Well, that's society. It didn't have to be that way. I mean, it's social media-fueled society. It's hard one way or another. Everything is the most extreme.

We overcorrect on everything. It's not this. It's this, you loser. You know, it's like, yeah, no. It's so much gray area, really, where the reality lies in so much stuff. Failure, success, you know, all that stuff. I think you mentioned the arthur smith comment i think um a large uh percentage of nfl coaches and players would would say exactly that

no way because we know how they think and work absolutely like the coaches on the worst team in the nfl uh even if they just got hired and they're not under pressure to feel like they're going to be fired in a year, they're still absolutely trying to, like, we're doing this to try to win a Super Bowl. The ceiling on kind of how you – there's not a vision so much with NFL coaches and players as there would be in a front office and in ownership. It's so much the gaze above the staff and above the roster is cast so much further out and where, yeah,

the tanking question could never really be honestly answered by a coach because, of course, I would believe that no, we're not trying to lose games. Of course not. Right. Yeah. No, you know,

no coach wants that on his pro football reference ledger. And I would never ask one to like what they asked Brian Flores to do is ridiculous. Yeah. If you want to tank higher, Joe judge or urban Meyer, don't hire someone that might be competent. Yeah,

exactly. And don't, and don't sign Ryan Fitzpatrick because he's going to win you a handful of games. Yeah. If you were going to tank the way that Miami did. But Atlanta is doing the competitive rebuild. The Vikings are not doing a competitive rebuild. They're doing a competitive, but we know we probably can't win the Super Bowl.

It's not, there's nothing rebuilding about it. No. But with Atlanta, there really is because you traded Matt Ryan. Right. Going with a competitive quarterback who's not actually really any good. rebuildy about it no but but with atlanta there really is because you traded matt ryan right going with a competitive quarterback who's not actually really any good that isn't going to get you very far yeah but you're rebuilding a lot of other parts and that will be interesting to me to see the two teams that i'm looking at most because i think seattle doesn't really know what they're doing i mean they're drafting running back still like they have no quarterback and they're like Kenneth Walker. Come on guys. But Atlanta, I think it has some smart elements

to their team and Chicago, two teams that said, Nope, we're just opting out of competing this year. It's just not going to happen. And whether they get farther than the Vikings in the next few years by doing that, because it doesn't have to be 10 year rebuilds. But I did want to, I did want to change direction a little bit on you and ask what interests you about the actual roster. Because to me though, if we're ranking, like what are the storylines of the Minnesota Vikings 2022 before they step on the field, number one is what we just talked about. And I think it's by far like Kwesi O'Connell, their direction, how they chose to do things this offseason and whether it's going to work but the minutiae of the roster is also very interesting to our listeners

i mean this is the right guard competition center of the universe but i want to know from a roster perspective like you know again with otas we're just kind of existing out there, looking around and stuff. But, oh, they got a new TV. Look at that apparatus they brought in. It's very large. It is very large. Very distracting. Yeah.

You make a joke about right guard, but I, in all honesty, am sort of intrigued by that. A, because they have failed repeatedly to find a right guard who can last more than one season and play at a league average or above level, but B, the sheer volume of how many guys they brought in as potential new starters there. It's almost like the whole you can never have enough starting pitching or Zimmer's joke, you can never have enough starting pitching or Zimmer's joke,

you can never have enough corners. Now they really said this offseason, you cannot have enough right guards. Right. Which I haven't given them enough credit for, by the way. True. Right? They didn't do this before. They didn't.

It's Tom Cotton, folks. Exactly. There was not nearly enough. So we're going to draft a new guy. We've got a hole over middle of the road draft pick, and we've literally signed three new veterans with starting experience. Like that's, yeah, that seems like smartest way to do it if you weren't going to get in on the bidding for whatever,

you know, the top tier free agent that might have been available back in March. So this is going to be, I mean, this will be the hardest core football question I ask to you, but I mean, do you think march so this is going to be i mean this will be the hardest core football question i asked you but i mean do you think the offensive line is going to be decent yeah no sure so well what is decent i mean well okay what is decent what i mean by decent is the this is a great this is a great thing about having metrics in 2022 is we can actually talk about an offensive line in this way true like the vikings under mike zimmer's entire era i believe only ranked even close to the middle in in pass blocking one time and it was 2017 right and that's it yeah and every other year it's been

bottom 20 25 to 32 somewhere in there with the pass blocking decent means 16th and pass blocking. Like, I don't expect them to be number one, but can you be in the middle? And we've been saying, can you be in the middle since 2018? And they just have not. Yeah, I would say, yeah. Cause, uh, I think scheme change and maybe a new red guard. Uh, that's where a lot of the pressure came from, right? You know, the last few years? And center. Center too, which they haven't figured out yet. But, you know, getting one of those locked down ought to help. Who knows if they have on the roster the guy who can do that. We don't know.

But I would say scheme change and philosophy change about when to throw the ball, I think, can go a long way into that, right? Like, you know, I don't know how many times I have never, I have not listened to every single one of your episodes. It's a big mistake. I apologize for that. However, I'm sure you've talked a few times about how much Mike Zimmer wanted to run the ball and told his offensive coordinators to run the ball more. It's come up. and that may or may not have led to some of the past uh protection issues that when it got to third and seven and teams could kind of pin their ears back so to speak yeah no that's a real thing that is a real thing for sure uh and

i think that someone like garrett bradbury abused on that. Yes. And that is one thing I do come back to. And this is not to say that Tom Compton was actually good or anything like that. But now I even there is a little bit of a, you know, is it the what is the chicken and the egg issue here? Because I looked back at Kirk Cousins and where pressure has come from in his career. Even when Washington had good offensive lines, the higher percentages came from the center and guards. Okay. And I think that that's due to immobility.

Yeah. Right. Like that. Yeah. Unwillingness too. Yeah. Right. And he isn't even a shuffler.

Like he's not even a move this way or that way. No. And they've really actually had for his entire era, good tackles. Right. And it's never been good in the middle. So there is a part of me that says, I like the way that you got a bunch of human beings to potentially play guard, but maybe you needed better ones and you spent your money on defense

and then sticking with one of, if not the worst pass blocking center in the league, thinking that your scheme will fix that. Yeah. When even going back to Washington, the higher percentage of his pressure was coming from up the middle. I think it's a quarterback issue as much as it is a scheme issue. Oh, it is.

Trying to avoid it situationally is a plan though. Yeah. I, I guess I think I saw he, he had the past protection and the, and the, of ability to avoid sacks became such a glaring problem in 2018. Yeah.

I think when you saw the shift to the Kubiak offense in 19, you saw some – there was improvement in that than being able to find a little bit more of rhythm passing and he took fewer sacks and um that fit his skill set more than what they try to do with him at the beginning so i'm yeah i'm sort of banking on or you know i think reasonably expecting o'connell and bringing some of the things the Rams did well. And remember that they did some of those things well predating Stafford too, like with Jared Goff.

And so it's not like it's going to be a situation where, well, no matter how much people would think Stafford would outrank Cousins on the 1-32 quarterback tier, it's not necessarily this thing where, well, they did it with Tom Brady, now they're going to try to make Davis Mills do it. I do think there's enough there with good tackles and philosophical. I want to say I think philosophical change can go further in making this a quote-unquote decent offensive line, like middle of the pack type thing,

than as much as we've got this super smart new scheme or better blockers. So what are your extremes on the offense uh between how good they could be or how it could all not work like i mean yeah because the way i look at it is i'll give you mine and then you tell me if you think that i'm off here i think that they can be somewhere between 12th and 16th like even if it doesn't go really super well, 16th is probably still going to happen. Like it's not going to be worse than D Filippo was where they were, I think 18th or 19th in scoring.

But I also don't think that it's going to do the thing that they needed to do, which is to accelerate it to being like top eight. I have a tough time with that because also when we talk about these things, like you have to look at the other teams in the league, like, Oh yeah, there are teams in the league that are going to put up 500 points. And I don't know that this offense is going to be able to do that. Right. So even if you finish 12th, you can make the playoffs, but higher than that, I kind of need to see it first before someone who

didn't call plays first time head coach yeah implementing a new offense to just snap the fingers and go no no i you know i'm gonna outperform what stefanski did what kubiak did and get them much higher than they were last year i i don't know that I can predict that. I'm not, I'm definitely not immediately disagreeing. I mean, I feel like, you know, if all the high scoring teams are in the AFC, then it doesn't really,

that doesn't matter as much, right? Like as far as you're talking about how you might rank in the league, yeah, sure. Yeah. Um, which could very well be the case,

right? You look at where the quarterbacks have landed there, but every team that's made the super bowl has been in the top seven in scoring so yeah like not a surprise no no no but that's sort of the price to get there if you're going to be a real contending team yeah and i don't see this roster as the team that has a few doors to open and get to the super Bowl. But I would say, I guess I could, I think the ceiling for the offense is higher than what you do, what you just did. I would say more like, you know, top six to eight would be like potential in scoring.

That would mean, I mean, if they were to be. You could definitely see 16. Like if they don't get this, you know, the guard situation figured out and there's going to be an injury here and there. And, you know, if the first-time play caller, like you said, is still kind of feeling things out, it doesn't quite come as successfully as it might come for somebody else. Who knows?

That kind of thing. Definitely could see, you know some some struggles some games like we've seen in recent years we you know we know that you know cousins limitations so it's pretty much a guarantee that those will show up in a couple of games and it'll be those that game that you i've seen this movie before yeah yeah but um i don't know i yeah i guess i think with him so much of its comfort and um you know i it'll never be able to change uh you can't ever really change your your shortcomings so much you can practice them you can address them you know like in any sport or anything in

life but you know i do think the the strength of his potential to go to get stronger yes with this kind of another system the type of coaches he should be comfortable with. Because that's huge for him. Not just from a protection standpoint in a tangible way on a given play, but in the whole environment. He needs everything to be kind of calm. He's a studier, and the environment is very important to his success. So that part is interesting to me because like Mike Zimmer clearly did not make that environment comfortable and yet like player of the month a couple

times. Right. You know what I mean? Right. And yet, so does that mean there's more there or does that mean it didn't affect him as much as we think? Yeah. That's the question that you'll have to answer on another podcast probably. You won't be able to answer. How much did Mike Zimmer actually impact him when he mostly wasn't involved with the offense

until he was mad they weren't running enough? That's another question to ask as well. I agree, and back to that question, I would say yes, I think, I think he succeeded, uh, largely when he succeeded kind of in spite of that. I don't know how much that having the perfect environment could have,

like how many, how many more wins would they have over cousins first four years? If it was just a coaching, he meshed with maybe one i don't know just toss that out but i don't think i also think there's still there is still room um for him to to make strides with some of the way they simply go about offense with without a head coach basically breathing down the right offense coordinator's neck to her on the ball more. So I think that the one area where that could be different is when things went badly. When things went badly for Mike Zimmer, he made them worse.

And when Kirk Cousins played badly, Mike Zimmer took it very personally, and he looked at Cousins as every corner he couldn't have in free agency. And he blamed him, which which the quarterback it's so funny how coaches will say oh you guys you blame the quarterback too much and stuff and they're like you do too though right so right i think that when things started to go sideways with cousins and when you look at the numbers it kind of suggests this that it would just keep going that way that it wasn't like oh there's a bad game but next week it'll be fine it was it's four bad games or it's three out of four or something like that

and that would happen a lot i don't know that this changes that because that's kind of who he is but we've also seen him with zimmer for so long it's like does the zimmer's environment impact him feeling like he has to do too much or feel like there's too much pressure or whatever it is? Or is this just who the man is like any baseball player who hits 250, 400 and 100 months, and then they come out at 250, right? So that is such an interesting conundrum. I just put the ceiling based on who the quarterback is and what he's done in his career with many different people in many different offenses as being in that like fringe top 10 because it's just hard to see

something else not impossible true it i think it's just hard to see like something being so vastly different if it is then that then they'll have a chance to go deep in the playoffs like we were talking about i mean if they have the sixth best offense then you can go deep in the playoffs with that but they but they have already ranked in scoring uh correct at least once they were him eighth eighth is the only yeah the only time in his career they were eighth with stefanski in scoring 19 19 yeah they also had like a really super easy schedule that year but yeah yeah that's true that's fair too yeah um what do you think of the schedule this year for their chances that's it that's a good question i think that if the quarterbacks who are who need to take a step forward take a step forward it's a very hard schedule yeah if

they don't it's a very easy schedule yeah like zach wilson yeah right by the time you get to zach wilson he might be steve young or he might be josh rosen like we don't even know and i i saw today 12 of zach wilson's passes were dropped last year like that's a that's insanity to have that many dropped five percent for kirk like that's the usual numbers about five right five to seven percent so this guy was having passes dropped his coach was new he wasn't ready to play like like all those things like justin fields might be better even if chicago as a team is worse but that's going to make them more of a contender yep there's a lot of those situations miami has a new coach like that i think are very hard to predict but there's also like

some good defenses philadelphia i think will probably have an improved defense and an improved offense and um you know new orleans has a pretty good defense they do that's it's usually not the opposing offense that's necessarily the issue with the vikings it's if the other team has a good defense you lose has been the case pretty much the whole time cousins has been here and there's no predicting which ones of these teams will have good defenses. No. Yeah, that changes pretty often. By week 12.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I have a wrap-up question for you. It's actually a tweet. Wrap-up tweet. Yes, a wrap-up tweet. So we tweeted this out the other day on the Purple Insider account. Had Tyler Dunn on the episode yesterday pick one.

If you could do Vikings fans a favor, say, uh, give them a Christmas present and undo one of these things on the list for them. And, uh, I read the list yesterday,

but it's not trading Fran Tarkenton, Drew Pearson, not pushing off, uh, not trading Herschel Walker, Gary Anderson, making the kick, Randy Moss,

not getting traded. Dante, not getting hurt. Brett Favre, not throwing the interception. Blair Walsh, not missing the kick Randy Moss not getting traded Dante not getting hurt Brett Favre not throwing the interception Blair Walsh not missing the kick or Teddy's knee being fine if you could give the Vikings fans the biggest Christmas present you ever gave them

one of the nine which one of those would you pick I picked Dante because they haven't had a franchise quarterback since Fran and I thought I know some of those outcomes put you in the super bowl which is hard to defeat for a pick right but a franchise quarterback of that level for 15 years would have been something

that gives you multiple chances to potentially win a super bowl so that's why i picked dante that's fair he was so exciting for the league. That's another part of it. He was. Even if he doesn't get hurt, though, there's other factors that could have come into play, and his performance may or may not have declined. But I'm not going to hold you to that technicality. I will go with Favre doesn't throw the INT in 0-9 against the Saints. A very close runner-up to Gary makes the kick in in 98 so you're sending them to super bowl it's yeah i am it's hard not to pick those and i go with 09 if you're asking

for a blanket sort of gift to the fan base more um more of them were enough of more of them would be old enough to have appreciated that there are some probably uh college-aged kids right now who don't remember 98 right well you know back in 98 yeah you've got to be a certain certain age to have viking phantoms have felt that gut punch the other reason i would pick the far one is because it was it was the farve year right, right? Yeah. I mean, that's one of the most fascinating, compelling stories in football history, that the arch-rival Hall of Fame quarterback comes to the team and has the best statistical season

of his career, just statistically. Yeah. And he was 40. And they lost the game like that with the 12th man in the huddle and the sort of predictable but not predictable interception like that. That's the one I would pick. I also think that team had a better chance of winning the Super Bowl against the Colts than the Vikings would have in 98 against the Broncos. The Broncos were insanely. Yeah.

Yeah. I think so, too. I think it also makes it harder that the Saints won the Super Bowl. Like Atlanta lost. Exactly. And so you went like, I don't know, man. I don't know, man. It's like, well, at least they lost.

They also had a bunch of guys get hurt in that game. A couple ACLs, I believe, Ed McDaniel and maybe John Randall. There were some key guys who probably wouldn't have played in the Super Bowl, which would have made it harder. Yeah. And Favre versus Manning in the Super Bowl. I mean, just insane. I mean, I think that there's ones on that list that are long-term plays

that are like, if you don't trade Herschel walker we don't know who you pick but yeah you know it's definitely intriguing to think about because you basically handed the cowboys a couple super bowls with that trade right so right well whoops yeah things happen i guess uh so there's a lot on that list and And feel free. I mean, a lot of people tweeted their responses and stuff. And so it was a great conversation. But I figured we could wrap on that. But always great to catch up with you, Dave. It's always fun.

Always nice to be on. Hope you enjoyed the sidewinding and unpredictable conversation. It's always that way. No show prep. That's what makes it the best. No show prep sometimes is required. See,, if our show prep, see, this is the thing that we could have done. We could have been like, Daniil Hunter was lining up on the right side. Wait, are we allowed to say that? Yeah, I think so. Uh, Daniil Hunter was lining up on the right side

and the left side. Let's break it down. Bring some PFF data. Maybe people like that. Uh, anyway, so great conversation, Dave. And, we'll, uh, we'll talk soon, man.

Sounds like a plan. Football.