Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - What year will the Vikings make the Super Bowl? (Don't say never!)

Episode Date: February 13, 2024

Matthew Coller and Manny Hill answer society's most difficult question: When will the Vikings actually make the Super Bowl? How can they get there? When will their window begin? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar along with Manny Hill. And I am continuing my tradition of creating very trolly headlines for people to answer and respond and get in the chat and argue with each other. And for tonight, Manny, here's where we're going to begin. The headline for this episode is, What year will the Vikings make the Super Bowl and in parentheses don't say never and I want to start out there because I'm watching as you did the Super Bowl and we'll get to some of our takeaways and I also asked you to kind of put together who you thought

the heroes of the Super Bowl were those are things that we remember down the line and maybe you do trivia on down the line 10 years from now i was thinking of like who fumbled a punt off their foot and like manny will know this 10 years from now when uh useful trivia.com has that as a question so we'll get to that and some other things some other rumors that i would love your take on surrounding the minnesota vikings but as I was watching, I was thinking about how I moved here in 2016. And there was one time, one moment in time that I actually thought, oh my God, I'm covering the Superbowl. And that was when Case Keenum drove down the field and threw a touchdown to a wide open Kyle Rudolph in Philadelphia in 2000, well, technically early 2018, but the 2017 season. And I was there with

our friend Judd Zolgat. And I said, I think we're going to cover a home Superbowl. This is crazy. And then the Eagles scored 38 straight points and it didn't happen, but it is proof Manny that it is not impossible for the Minnesota Vikings to someday reach the Super Bowl. So let us begin with this question for you. When will they be there? Will it be in the next three years, in the next five to eight years, in the next 10 to 15 years, or have you been watching Minnesota sports for so long that you would say 15 plus all the way to the end of the universe. What do you think? I think in the next five to eight years, I think is a reasonable prognosis,

reasonable expectation. You know, I think if they're in such a good position right now to draft a young quarterback and sort of retool this roster, get better on defense. You've got an offensive group of talent that can allow a young quarterback to have success early. And I think if you insert that rookie quarterback, you continue to build this roster over the next three or four years, you make some good decisions, you make some shrewd signings in free agency. You know, we've seen other teams in the NFL turn things around pretty quickly, even when it looks like, oh, wow, this team is a decade away from even being thought of as a Super Bowl contender. So with the Cincinnati Bengals, I mean, they drafted Joe Burrow number

one overall. And then two years later, they were in the Super Bowl driving with a chance to win it. And if not for a great play by Aaron Donald, one of the great defenders of all time, the Bengals, you know, Joe Burrow might lead that team down into their first championship. And that team was, what, three and 13, two and 14 or something just, you know, a couple of years prior. So it is possible. You just have to make some, some good moves. I do think with where the NFC is headed right now, it can, you know, it might seem like it's a very daunting task, but I think it's possible. If you make good moves, you combine that with some of these other teams making bad moves. Cause that happens too. That's part of it. Um, then I think you, you've that with some of these other teams making bad moves, because that happens

too. That's part of it. Then I think you've got a chance to get yourself right back into the mix. It's just going to depend on the path that you take and that being the right path. It is definitely a daunting task, but nowhere near as much as the AFC, where you have to feel completely hopeless after watching last night, where it's like, wait, if we botch one punt, this guy is going to make us pay and win the game. And everybody's got to feel this way. Like Buffalo, you mess up one play at the end of a game where Josh Allen isn't able to throw a touchdown

because he gets some pressure from Chris Jones. And it's, you know, I think about how well a team has to play for their quarterback to win the game. Because we talk about quarterback wins all the time. And hey, look, another quarterback who's the greatest wins all the time. Weird how that is connected. But I think about it in terms of how well during the Kirk Cousins era would the supporting cast and coaching staff have to perform

through an entire playoffs for them to win the Superbowl with that quarterback? And the answer is like a nine out of 10, everybody would have to be on point. You'd have to have great blocking, great defense, great receivers coach. Well, get an edge for your in-game decisions, everything you'd have to make your field goals. Everything would have to go right, which nearly happened for the Vikings with the Minneapolis miracle. Uh, but you see my point like to win with that level of a quarterback, everything's got to go right, which nearly happened for the Vikings with the Minneapolis miracle. But you see my point, like to win with that level of a quarterback, everything's got to go right. Actually, Philadelphia is an example of this in 2017, where they got some breaks. They played extremely well.

Their defensive line was a bunch of freaks. Their receivers caught the ball. Everything went well. And even their trick play worked to get in the end zone on the Philly special. So like everything has got to be exactly on point for a team with a quarterback like Kirk Cousins to get there. I would say, you know, the 49ers had a lot of things go right in that game to even be in it.

And then one thing goes wrong and they fall apart for Patrick Mahomes. It's probably like a five. It's probably a five or six. They got good performances out of their secondary. They got a good performance out of their all-world defensive tackle. They dropped a couple passes. They caught a couple passes. And there you go.

They played like a six out of ten game, and they win the Super Bowl as a complete team. They also fumbled a couple times. They didn't play perfect at all. Their offensive line got beat to hell by Nick Bosa in this game uh they couldn't run the football at all like if you have him you can play just okay and win the Super Bowl uh so the question is how do you either build a team that can play at a nine all the way through the season and through the playoffs, a nine out of 10, 10 out of 10,

and then you got to rely on the breaks and so forth. Or how do you get a situation where your quarterback is good enough to take you to the next level? And I think that the answer to the question is the same. It's you either have enough money to make the trades and the moves that San Francisco made, which is to get McCaffrey, to get Trent Williams, to go out and trade for Chase Young at some point, to gather all the players. How about Javon Hargrave? What a player that guy is. He completely dominated the middle.

How did they get him? Oh, yeah, that's right. They had the cap space because of the quarterback. And if you draft a quarterback who turns into a great dynamic playmaker, who on fourth and one can run for 20 yards, and that's an option. By the way, did you see the replay of that? If he hands the ball off, Nick Bosa eats Clyde Edwards-Alaire at the backfield, and the game is over, and San Francisco's a champion. But they have a running quarterback who can escape and go for a first down. And instead of

San Francisco celebrating, it's the dynamic playmaker running down the field. But both options are that the, I don't think that there is such an option as building a team that can play at a nine or 10 out of 10 all the way through a season because we've seen them attempt this repeatedly with much better rosters in the past than they had this last year or before. And, I mean, even like 2018, 2019, those rosters are really, really stacked, and they still weren't able to do that. They go out to San Francisco, they couldn't run the ball, and the game is just over, and they end up losing to the 49ers in mostly blowout fashion so i think we've seen that movie over and over again

of you can't do that around a kirk cousins contract and it really solidified that for me yesterday is like these are the two ways that you get to the super bowl you either draft that guy or you have a quarterback that's that cheap and you put together this team. And look, San Francisco, they're probably completely crushed, but they did enough to be in overtime with the GOAT. So I don't know, man. If that's where you end up, then you would absolutely take that. But I think those are the only two paths. Now, does that happen within the next three years, within the next five years? Does it take Kirk coming back, everybody getting fired, a new coaching staff and going forward after that

before this team can actually be in contention? But to your point, Manny, just look through the teams. I mean, Dallas was stuck in mediocrity with Jason Garrett. They drafted a couple of guys that hit. They probably have a 10 out of 10 roster, 9 out of 10 roster. Mike Zimmer is their defensive coordinator, and they've been in the mix for a Super Bowl. Haven't gotten there, but they're in the mix at least. San Francisco had a couple of down years, but got their quarterback. Detroit, you mentioned, went all the way to the bottom. There's not one pure way to get there, but it always goes either you draft that amazing,

amazing quarterback, or you build the complete team. And those are really the only two ways. So how long in your mind then Manny, would it take to build a complete team? Well, I think it would just depend on how well you draft and, and, you know, how you spend your money in free agency. I mean, you, those, the move that you make in those two departments have to be sound and they have to work out. And even if you, you know, I mean, teams miss on first round draft picks all the time. Even the best, most well-run organizations miss on first round draft picks.

But when that happens, you've got to find a way to sort of make up for it in another way, whether it's a free agent signing or, you know, if you swing and miss on a player at a certain position in the first round, you can make up for it in one of the later rounds because, you know, if you're really smart and you can identify a guy or you just, you know, you just kind of get lucky like the Niners kind of did with Brock Purdy. You know, I mean, the Niners, think about what the Niners invested into trading up to get Trey Lance. And that was a complete disaster. It just didn't work out to the point where they basically gave him away for a third round pick. It didn't matter because they found Brock Purdy

in the seventh round two years ago, you know what I mean? And he's stepped in and sort of made up for swinging and missing with Trey Lance. So you get like, you know, you don't want to bank on something like that. But when that happens, if you can find a way to make up for an early swing and a miss, then that can keep you in a really good position to compete going forward. So it's, it's about just making good moves, you know, down the line on your roster. We've talked about, you know, the Vikings, you know, drafting Lewis seen in 2022. And that so far has not worked out. It may never, it may never work out, but you know, when you find other guys on your roster, when you find, you know, some of these other guys that they have, it doesn't hurt you as much if you can sort of

make up for that so that part of it is is good you know you find they found a guy like josh metellus a couple of years prior and josh metellus is really good you know what i mean so that's that's kind of how you make up for that you got cam buying them as well so those type of moves are going to be important too then i think the most important thing is you just got to find the quarterback. You know, even in the case of the 49ers, they don't have Patrick Mahomes, but Brock Purdy is pretty good. And he went toe-to-toe with Mahomes in the Super Bowl. Mahomes was just better because he's Patrick Mahomes.

He's the greatest player on earth. But the Niners were right there. And I think that's the most important thing is if you find that quarterback and he's really good, if he's not at the level of Mahomes, if you're not paying him like he's Patrick Mahomes and he's really good,

then you've got a real legitimate shot. If you've got a quarterback that's kind of middling towards the middle where he's pretty good, but just not that great, but you're paying him like he's great, it's going to be so much harder. And that's why we've seen the Vikings sort of kind of spinning their wheels really for the last six years with Kirk Cousins, because Kirk is good, but he has not had the kind of impact that you

need if you're going to be paying a guy that much. And it's why it's been so difficult for them to really get over that hump. Well, let's say, let's say that they draft a quarterback with the 11th pick as opposed to trading up, which I think all of us would support. I know I've gotten some pushback on that, but even the people who push back the night that they did it, they'd be like, let's go. You know that those people would be like, franchise, let's go. I mean, you're never going to get a good deal trading up, of course, and that is going to set you back with assets, but I don't think it makes it impossible. And if you hit on that guy, you're talking about having

five years to be able to do it. So that's when your window opens up. But if they were to spend 11, what's the wishlist around that to get them to the point of the two teams that we just watched? Because I think there was two sides to what happened last night that were sort of on display. One is San Francisco has an incredible D line.

They completely owned the line of scrimmage they made pat run around quite a bit they also completely stuffed isaiah pacheco to the point where i was doing a little yelling at the tv like stop running on first down you can't gain any yards they were in second and seven third and eight like so many times because that d-line was just nasty and then on the other side, Trent McDuffie, like, oh, people, people talk about them not drafting Jordan Davis. And I don't know if they liked McDuffie or not in 2022 or even Kyle Hamilton. If you gave me the choice of the three, I'd probably take McDuffie over Hamilton and Davis because that's a guy who's capable of shutting down San Francisco wide receivers.

Debo Samuel, I think, had one catch on six targets against Trent McDuffie. My gosh, give me that guy all day. I think it probably starts there with a shutdown cornerback. And LeJarius Sneed was also great as well. A defensive line, you can manufacture a little bit more with pass rush, as we saw Brian Flores do. But if you can't cover anybody, receivers are open all day, quarterbacks find a way, and they just run absolutely wild. So in my mind, it would be who's going to replace Harrison Smith if he retires. That's a big deal, but he'll definitely retire in the next few years and then how can you find a number one true elite

shutdown cornerback to pair with somebody who's good like Byron Murphy Jr. and Mekhi Blackman like that's not enough though just having guys who are kinda is not good enough you got to have somebody who is truly great I think that would be the top of my wish list to start because I think if your quarterback hits you already have the offensive foundation to be a top-notch offense I think defensively you're talking about find you know what what are the best ways to affect the opposing quarterback to make things as challenging as possible for the opposing quarterback and you do it with a pass rush by applying pressure and you do it with corners that can cover that make it very difficult for the opposing quarterback to deliver the football where he wants to put it. And so you combine those two things and Kansas City's defense has that.

They have guys that can get after the quarterback and they have two really good young corners who are just fantastic and literally lock you down um that's that's really where it starts and it's always kind of been that way when you look at the great defenses in in history they've had corners that can cover and guys up front that can get pressure on the quarterback um and guys that can you know that can stop the run and not get gashed in the running game now all that stuff too but um that's that can stop the run and not get gashed in the running game and that all that stuff too. But, um, that's, that's where it starts. And there are a lot of different ways you can do it. You do it, you can do it in free agency.

You know, if you, if you have the cap space and you need, you're looking at your roster and saying, we need a pass rusher. We need a guy that can get after the quarterback. You got the cap space. You can just go out and do it. You know, the Vikings going back to 2008, when they made the trade for jared allen they had the cap space to absorb them they had the draft capital to make the move to bring him in there because that was a a missing piece they had corners that could cover they just needed a guy that can that can rush the passer um and so

jared allen stepped in he made that defense a lot better. That's what it's going to take for the Vikings, too. I mean, and you're talking about a Vikings team that's probably going to lose Daniil Hunter in free agency. So now you're talking about having to replace him and also finding another guy that can have the same kind of impact that Daniil Hunter has. We've talked about interior defensive linemen that can step in and apply some pressure up the middle. And you just need, like you said, you need corners. You need guys that can shut it. You need at least one guy that can basically take away half the field. The great defenses that we've seen, we know how great a player Deion Sanders

was. He took away half the field. You look at the Legion of Boom, Richard Sherman was like that, where you just didn't throw in his direction because it just wasn't going to happen. So you've got to find that, too. The Vikings in 2017, or 2015 to 2017, with Xavier Rhodes, a guy that took away half the field, it just made it

that much harder for your opponent to move the ball and score on you. So that's where you've got to find that, however you do it. If the ball and score on you so that's where you've got to find that however you do it if you do it in draft in the draft that's great because you've got a young guy that's on a cheap contract and and you know the the chiefs are sitting pretty right now because of those two young guys now we'll have we'll see what happens with sneed because i think he's going into the free agency and they'll have to pay him probably but you know mcduff he's just in his second year in the league and he's first team all pro he's great um so that's what it's going to come down

to you know if you can do it in free agency and and sign some guys and make some right moves it's it's ideal and if you can find guys in the draft if you can just hit on all of those decisions um you'll be in great shape going forward. So if we were to kind of try to lay it out, I would say there's two different paths here. One is to bring back Kirk and one is not as far as when the Super Bowl window is open, when they could potentially compete for a Super Bowl. And then when you get in the playoffs, if you are a legit team that has a plus 100 point differential, a top five offense, all those things, then you better hope that you make the fourth down like the 49ers did and not the Lions in the NFC championship game. Weird. I didn't see any criticism for Kyle Shanahan converting a key fourth down despite, you know, doing the same exact thing that Dan Campbell did.

That's because everybody just reverse engineered after knowing the result in both situations. But anyway, not the point. If they bring back Kirk Cousins, then I would look into the crystal ball and probably figure they go nine and eight, and then everybody's on the hot seat. They try to sign some people but don't have enough money,

and they end up doing the same exact thing. And then we're talking about a new coaching staff signed some people but don't have enough money and they end up doing the same exact thing and then we're talking about a new coaching staff and a draft pick quarterback and everything else in 2020 what does that get us 2026 uh if they draft quarterback this year then you have the potential for that to be probably like 2025 seems a little healthy but with the offensive setup that they have i don't think that's insane i think that's probably a little much to say Super Bowl, but 26, 27, 28, that would be what I would consider your window. So for me, it's like a four to seven year if they draft a quarterback or three to seven.

But if they don't, then that just pushes that window until they do draft a quarterback. That's how I would look at it. And I'll just push it out three to seven years after that Kirk gets everyone fired. And then they move on and look, I mean, I understand how cynical that is, but what else do I have to work with information wise?

I mean, if they bring him back, even if they bring him back on a $30 million deal and they get the deal of a lifetime and he's cheap, does anyone believe that you're competing on the same level as San Francisco? I don't see how that's really possible. They'll talk about how he was playing really well before he got hurt and they'll have the ninth best offense in the league and they won't be able to bring in defensive players and they'll rank,

you know, 18th in defense because some teams will figure out some stuff that Brian Flores did and we'll all just live in the circle of hell for a couple more years and then move on um but i think if they do uh this year then we start to talk about like you can see it you can put on your goggles and see into the future all right it's out there will it work i have no idea but at least it's out there um so yeah and maybe it was just another way of saying like draft quarterback um dan says if uh they draft a rookie and the rookie is decent 2027 seems like the best bet still prime jj enough time to build the d deris on his prime detroit uh maybe cap squeezed at that point that's another point to be made too is you know that the

other teams in the conference and so forth, it's hard to say how they'll look a couple of years from now, but I think 26, 27, 28 exactly would be where I'm talking about. If they draft a quarterback, Bradley says in the hunt in 2024 playoff, when 2025 Superbowl window truly open 26 through 29,

assuming we get a rookie quarterback who isn't terrible. Of course, that's always part of it. You know, if, although if they draft the worst guy and he wins two games, then you draft Shadur Sanders. Maybe you get there even faster.

I don't know. Otherwise the window is delayed till we get a rookie quarterback. That's right. Bron fricking solo, who is always incredibly excited about the Viking says next season will be the season. Shore up the lines. Playing on a third-place schedule, the shoring up the lines part is pretty hard

because you need like four of those guys on the defensive line. And then at least that one corner, another linebacker. There's a lot of work to be done. So next year seems like it would be pretty rich to have that expectation. Even if you bring back Kirk Cousins, I'm going to have to understand the plan for how the heck you're going to even be competitive. Not just not just compete for a Super Bowl. How do you even compete at all?

Brian Flores is great at his job. He's not a miracle worker. Silver Fox says, I don't know that this would be something you could seriously timeline. Well, that's always true. That's why we're talking about it is because you can look at it a lot of different ways. There's so many variables in any given season, top 10 on offense and defense, the same year injuries and so forth.

The thing is for me, Manny, it's all about meeting certain parameters. Are you going to get to the super bowl? I don't know, because I don't know what punt is going to bounce off somebody's foot. Like, it's crazy how this game works and who could be, if not for this, that, the other thing, 13 seconds away from the Buffalo Bills going, you know, to the AFC championship, then potentially a Super Bowl. The Bills are one drive away. Their field goal kicker misses a field goal.

Like, this is how it works. Mahomes is this close to having no Super Bowls. Tom Brady was this close in a bunch of Super Bowls to not winning them. That's how it always works. But I think we're talking more about when could they meet the parameters of a real Super Bowl caliber team, which means a top five offense or an elite quarterback like, you know, Mahomes and probably a complete team that includes a defense that has the shutdown player, that has the Nick Bosa on the D-line. How can you meet these parameters to outscore your opponents the regular season by 150 points and go into the postseason really looking like a team that could compete for a Super Bowl? And that's where you can see it off on the horizon because what you have on offense right now,

but there's so many parts that have to be filled. It's hard to see one offseason where you just go poof and they all show up regardless of what they do at quarterback. Yeah, I mean, I think if we're talking about anything sooner than, you know, three or four years, you're probably talking about bringing Kirk back and then just pushing all your chips to the center of the table and just going all in in 2024.

I mean, we kind of talked about that a few weeks ago. If they're going to bring back Kirk Cousins, then they got to go all the way in for 2024 and trading draft picks, trying to get win now guys that can come in and help your defense. And, you know, maybe a couple of other pieces on offense and your offensive line, etc., etc. Otherwise, to kind of slow cook this thing and let this thing simmer, you draft your young quarterback and just build it over the next couple of years.

You know, be smart with your cap and get yourself in a position of 2025. You know, it feels like 2024, if they go the route of drafting the young quarterback. 2024 is you get that young quarterback in, you sign a bridge quarterback, you let that young guy sit behind the bridge, and then 2025 is the first year that that young quarterback starts. That's a year that you're going to have a lot, a lot of cap space. You're going to have some cap space this off season, but you're going to have a lot of cap space for 2025 because the Kirk Cousins contract is gone. It is bye-bye and you never have to think about it again.

And that's going to free up a lot of flexibility for you. So now 2025 is when you can really start going shopping for the groceries that you really want. You can start using the draft picks. And then you just continue to build that. And then you let some of these young guys that you've drafted, provided you hit on these draft picks, you let them develop over the course of a couple of years. And then you get yourself in a position 2026, 2027, 2028, and there's kind of your window of where you've got a shot. You know what I mean? If you make all the right moves and the right decisions

and your quarterback ends up being really, really good, maybe not necessarily Mahomes, but if you can find a guy and he turns into a Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson level of a quarterback where he's good enough and elite enough to have you in the mix, then you've got a you've got a multi-year window of really having a shot. And who knows? I mean, things a lot of times these teams that win championships, Matthew, they they just they're they're great teams and they have great players, but they also have some things go their way as well. And the best way to make that happen is to just put yourself in a position to build up your roster in a way to where you can be in a position to have some good things go your way. And then you just kind of see what happens after that. Folks, have you ever heard of test driving a phone network? I did not make this up.

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I know, great sound effects there. Test drive U.S. Cellular's award-winning network for 30 days. U.S. Cellular, built for us. Terms apply. Awards based on OpenSignal independent data. I think the Eagles are a team to look at with what happened post-2017 because it was actually similar to the Vikings because they were pretty average 2018, 2019.

I think they were nine and seven, maybe both year. They had a chance of the playoffs. They dropped the pass that should have gone for a first down against the saints. If you remember that where Nick Foles almost want to play another playoff game there for Philadelphia. And then they had a dip in a similar season to what the Vikings had this year, only it was a little worse than that, in 2020. And they didn't bounce back right away in 2021. But they were a little bit, let's see, I'm trying to think of how this went exactly. They fired Peterson after 2020 and then hired Sirianni in 2021. Right. And then Hurts played in 2021 and played okay, right? And they went to the playoffs. They got killed by Tom Brady. Then 2022 was when they go to the there yet. And then you can do things like trade for AJ Brown

and sign players and spend that money and build up your roster. And that's what you're talking about, where it's like, does it take forever? Well, look at the teams who were middling or who were not that good. And the whole thing is set up to have the ebbs and flows, to have teams rising and falling all the time.

And the only thing that prevents that is mahomes uh and we've seen that historically tom brady the same sort of deal but otherwise everybody else is on a roller coaster of ups and downs and this organization has been there many times like once a decade they're there because you build it up zimmer comes in 2014 they hit on some draft picks they get their cap, right? They add a couple of players like Linval Joseph, whose role could not be downplayed and Terrence Newman and so forth. And then like you're there and they've kind of got to look to be able to do the same thing. Evan says, even if the Vikings do everything right in free agency and the drafts moving forward,

they won't be able to be to the Super Bowl until three to five years yeah I agree with that I think it's two to three if everything goes right but what you're looking for at all times is just signs that it's going in the right direction and I think at the moment it feels like it is now are they going to change that up on me and make me say that it's not but like at the moment it feels like it is now are they going to change that up on me and make me say that it's not but like at the moment it feels like tearing a lot of it down last offseason and not extending cousins was the closest thing that they've gotten to being in that window in a while since they walked off the field in 2017 so that that's at least how it feels now how much they're gonna you know decide to go another way on that and

change my mind but i feel like i feel like the swing is toward that that next three to five years but they're gonna have to make good on that uh is the faithful says the viking should have made it to a super bowl by accident by now right uh yes yes they should have i mean there's been so many chances that's what you mentioned like things going right there mean, there's been so many chances. That's what you mentioned, like things going right. There's been so many chances and have not just quite gotten there. Christian says, my latest and greatest idea is to draft one of the top tackles and have him play guard for a couple years before taking over for O'Neal and then trading back into the first for a quarterback. Yeah, I think if they were doing that, if they were going to trade back in,

it would be to draft on the defensive line. There's some good defensive linemen in this draft, probably not at the tackle position. There's just a lot of needs, and I think the offensive line, surprisingly, is not the biggest one at the moment. So it's kind of crazy because that has been the case for a long time. Tim says the Vikings' defense is so far away. It's ridiculous. And that's why it will take a couple of years to rebuild. I don't think you could just have

one draft or one free agency. We've seen this before when they tried to fill in 2021, all the spots through free agency. Oh, let's get Sheldon Richardson back. Let's bring back Everson Griffin. Let's sign Bashad Breeland. It just didn't work. Let's bring in Patrick Peterson. Peterson was great, but it wasn't enough. I don't think that that strategy works. That's what they'll do if they bring back Kirk, though. They'll try it again, and

they'll get the same results. Pretty much. That's what it's going to come down to. If you run the risk, like we were saying, okay, you bring Kirk back, you sign him to a two-year fully guaranteed deal or whatever, you push all your chips to the center of the table.

I'm like, that's what I think you should do. If that's the route you choose, you got to go all in for 2024. Otherwise, what the hell is the point of bringing him back? But you push all your chips to the center of the table, and even then, it still might not be enough to really get you to a Super Bowl, because now you're talking about trying to get to a Super Bowl or at least putting yourself in a position

to legitimately contend for that in order for it to even be worth it. And when you look at Detroit, San Francisco, Green Bay, potentially, Atlanta, depending on what they do at the quarterback position, you're going to have some other teams. Philadelphia was terrible the second half of the year, but they might bounce back. And you still have Dallas in the mix, too.

It's going to be a really tough climb if you're going to try and go all in in 2024. So to me, it just, like we were saying, it just makes the most sense to go with the young quarterback and let this thing kind of slow cook over the next couple of years. Let some of those other teams that are at the top now fade back to earth a little bit and then you're you do everything right you play your cards right now you're in a position to really kind of leapfrog some of these teams and get yourself in a position to contend. Ramza says if they let Daniil walk and give Kirk 40 plus guaranteed for two years I might have to turn in my fan card I've gotten that quite a few times from people that basically said like I like, I'll tune back in when that's over.

Which, you know, I think we know is not exactly true. People are not going to bail on their team just because of this one particular decision. But I do think that there's going to be a ton of skepticism. And even the biggest Kirk fans have said, I think it's just time to move on just because of the logic of bringing back someone who's 36 coming off an Achilles injury. The other thing I keep coming around to is from the Wilfs perspective. And we did this exercise the other day so people can go back and find it where we tried to play around in free agency and see if we could build from big signings, a team that would be good enough to compete. And I think we did a good job.

But one of the problems is they would have to put down all the guaranteed money for Kirk. So what, $60 to $80 million guaranteed on the table, the Wilfs. They would have to put down $75 million, $65 million guaranteed to Justin Jefferson. Then if they were going to sign Christian Wilkins and Saquon Barkley and et cetera, et cetera, how many guaranteed? I mean, they're going to have to put down an insane amount of guaranteed money for this team to even have any type of argument that they could be interesting next year. And I just like, are they going to be willing to do that?

I've never thought that they were cheap or unwilling to put down money, but that seems like a bad bet with all of your money to be handing out all the crazy amounts of guaranteed cash with no guarantee at all, that Kirk is going to take them to a different place than they've ever been before. At the end of the day, you just have to like look at the situation and you have to think, okay, how, how realistic is this? How plausible is this? Like if we bring Kirk back and we try to contend and try to win it all in

2024, how feasible is it to even, to even do everything that we, that we were talking about, signing this guy, go get Christian Wilkins and sign LeJarrius Sneed and get Saquon Barkley and you know and then you're you're you're hitting on every single draft pick that you that you have in 2024 like how feasible is that and that's why it realistically it just takes you have you got to play the slow cooking route and when I say slow cook I'm not saying you know six to eight years like it takes sometimes in cook, I'm not saying, you know, six to eight years,

like it takes sometimes in the NBA to rebuild a team of, you know, multiple years of tanking. You can, you can turn things around and get yourself in a position pretty quickly if you make the right decisions. And, you know, we've talked about, you know, some of the players that they're going to need on defense. You, you know, you invest in some of that stuff in the draft, you know, maybe not necessarily your first round pick if you're using it on a quarterback in 2024, but 2025, you've got a first round pick. You use that on a corner that can turn into a shutdown guy. I mean, you're just, you've got to get back, I think,

to really building this roster and, and trying to get yourself in position. Like, like you mentioned with Mike Zimmer coming in in 2014, and they just, they just reloaded, retooled the roster with young players and built those guys up and develop them and turn them into, uh, one of the best defenses in the NFL and gave themselves a little bit of a window to really contend for a championship. They went and got Kirk in 2018, and things ended up kind of going downward the other way. But they made a lot of really sound moves

in that 2014 to 2017 range and built themselves into a contender. And I think that's, that's the route that they have to try and do again. Now with this current group, isn't it interesting that Rick Spielman and Mike Zimmer combined to make a ton of really good moves to build the team. And then when there was all sorts of pressure and panic to win in the Kirk

window, that's when they made their mistakes and if you don't learn from the past guess what everybody you're destined to repeat it and the same thing would go here it's like do you guys want to live in a world where you are building in your timeline in your competitive rebuild timeline consistently making smart moves in order to build for a like 2025 2026 is when your window really opens or do you want to panic and trade a draft pick for cory vedvik because you're worried about your kicker like that's they only started doing crazy stuff and this is why i do respect rick spielman and mike zimmer is that they they only started doing crazy stuff when all

the pressure was on and they knew that if they only started doing crazy stuff when all the pressure was on and they knew that if they didn't win, then they would get fired. When people think they're going to get fired, they do stupid stuff. And we saw that play out over and over. You trade a fourth round draft pick for Chris Herndon because your tight end gets hurt and you lose your mind. Like that's exactly what they started doing. So if you bring back cousins, you start, you have to lose your mind. You have to start handing out free agent contracts to people who don't deserve them. You have to start trying to panic and freak out and bring in veteran players or make desperate trades. Or if somebody gets hurt and your roster

is too thin, then, oh man, we got to scramble. We got to fix that. We got to cut a kicker if he misses a field goal in week two. Think of all the stuff that they did that was totally panicked during that time. We got to bring back Anthony Barr on that huge contract. Cause what are we going to do without him? We can't replace him. And look, we saw it last year. A lot of the players that they moved on from in a longer term approach, it actually worked out okay.

They moved on from Eric Hendricks. Ivan Pace Jr. comes in. You know, they moved on from Delvin Cookicks. Ivan Pace Jr. comes in. They moved on from Delvin Cook, and we see Ty Chandler start to emerge toward the end of the season, and that position is open for the future. I mean, it not only is a logical thing, but it's also a psychological thing for where you stand as the people in charge. Is the Faithful says, who has a hilarious SpongeBob avatar,

by the way, and every time I laugh when I put them on screen, did not watch the Nickelodeon broadcast, but it sounded like it was great. Anyway, says they need to sell the farm for one of the top three quarterbacks. Nothing else matters. They could build a great team like the Niners and lose another Superbowl.

Hey, if you're there, then that's all right you know like well it it's not it would be heartbreaking but it would be a lot better to be there and be in a position to have Mahomes shatter your dreams than it would be to sit home and watch the whole playoffs again year after year as far as trading up you know if they get a chance at Jaden Daniels or Drake May in a trade up, then do it. And I wanted to ask you about that, Manny.

I wanted to go through some of the rumors with you because I gave my opinion on the show, but I wanted yours. Give me your reaction to these two rumors and I'll keep getting to your comments as well. One was Dan Graziano saying that the Patriots number three pick could be for sale. And he was suggesting that the Vikings were one of the teams that could potentially make that phone call. So your reaction to that, what you think it would take to get there? And then also Tom Bellacero floated the name Sam Darnold for the Vikings. How do you feel about those things? Well, as far as the Graziano's report, I mean, you know,

we've kind of talked about, you know, potentially the Vikings moving up to three and what it would take. And I mean, if if you're talking about, you know, three first round picks, you know, and then maybe a player of some sort, not Justin Jefferson, then I would say, you know, I would say do it, you know, because you're going to get a chance to get one of those three guys. And then you just then you just see what happens. I think ultimately when it comes down to these young quarterbacks, you just have to take one and you have to see what happens and you have to hope for the best. You try like hell to develop them. You've got a good foundation set up for him to have,

whoever it is, to have early success. Just get yourself into the conversation. Now that's going to, you know, in terms of draft capital, giving up, you know, three first round picks to move up eight spots and take a guy, you know, it's going to be tough. It would be tough over the next couple of years, not having that, that first round pick, but you know what, if you trade up and you get that guy if you get jayden daniels if you get uh drake may even if it's you know if it's caleb williams that falls down to three whoever that guy is if he's great even if he's just like josh allen level look at what look at what the buffalo bills have had over the last handful of years since josh allen has been there they haven't gotten the super bowl yet but they've been in the conversation every single

year because he's that good. It's literally just been Patrick Mahomes that has kept them from getting over the hump. Joe Burrow beat them one year, but it's basically been Patrick Mahomes knocking them out of the playoffs three different times, and that's the freaking GOAT.

I think you just have to, if you can find that guy and get yourself in a position of where you're, you know, eventually after a couple of years of, you know, continuing to build your roster, you're in the mix and in the conversation for a number of years, then I think it's worth it.

I think it's worth moving up into that spot. You just have to draft the right guy and, and, and hope that it works out. As far have to draft the right guy and hope that it works out. As far as the Sam Darnold stuff, I mean, I don't love it, but I don't hate it. I don't hate the idea of that. I mean, Sam Darnold is, needless to say, he's been very disappointing. I think, you know, he's top 10 draft pick and what was he? Was he?

When did the Jets take him? Was he third? Was it three? Was he third? Okay. Yeah. So he was drafted very high and obviously expected to be a franchise quarterback for the Jets. That didn't work out. I think there were numerous reasons why it didn't work out.

I mean, reason number one, Adam Gaze. Like, God, come on. You know what I mean? Like, it was almost, Sam Darnold was almost doomed from the start, you know? And then it just didn't work out with the Jets. He goes to Carolina, and it's Matt Rule, and it's just like, again, oh, God, you know? So, you know, I mean, maybe a year under Kyle Shanahan backing up Brock Purdy has done some good for Sam Darnold and at least turned him into, you know, a respectable quarterback that you can have start a season for you as a bridge quarterback while you develop your young guy. But I think that's the most important part of it.

And I saw Tom's report on it that it comes with if you go get Sam Darnold, you've also got a the plan has to include getting that young quarterback and then if he's sitting behind Sam Darnold for a whole season then I'm good with that now if you're going to get Sam Darnold because you think that he can be a guy that's that will be cheap and he can be your franchise quarterback going forward for the next three or four years I don't think that's very smart to put your eggs into that basket. But I think if you're bringing a man to start for a year, he's been in the league for a while. He's played in a few different systems. I think playing for Shanahan's, you know,

being in at least practicing in Shanahan system for a whole season behind Brock Purdy, I think may have helped him get a little bit better as well. So I'd be open to that, but it has to mean you're taking that young quarterback along with it as well. Where I would say I'm impressed with Sam Darnold is that he was QB2 for the 49ers, and we heard nothing about that. It wasn't any noise of Sam D darnold's unhappy that he's behind

brock purdy or whatever like anything he just did his job and was a backup quarterback and presumably continued to get better and also had good coaching for the first time ever you actually can't get worse than what you just laid out for head coaches adam gaze and matt rule might be two of the bottom five coaches the last decade. And this guy landed with both of them. How about, how did Baker Mayfield perform with Carolina? How did Teddy Bridgewater perform with Carolina? Teddy Bridgewater played for the saints and then Denver in between with

Carolina. And he went five and oh, with the Saints when seven and seven seven with Denver so 12 and seven as a starter and then like four and 11 with Carolina they were horrendous abysmal their coaching was despicable I remember Teddy saying that they didn't even do like situational stuff in practice and Teddy never says anything bad about anybody and even he was like geez guys I don't even know so I will say that he played pretty well. Darnold did in one game that he played for San Francisco. Now that's not me talking myself into franchise quarterback.

And I'm sure people's faces turn green when they hear it. You might've thought the same thing about Gino Smith though. Like he was in a really bad situation or Ryan Tannehill, Adam Gase. And then he becomes quite good. It has to be paired with another guy. So if you told me that they were going to draft Bo Nix or JJ McCarthy or Michael Penix by trading back into the first round to get them with the 32nd pick or something and had Sam Darnold, I'm like, great, because Gardner Minshew has no upside. Andy Dalton has no upside. Those are just guys.

And Sam Darnold actually does potentially have upside. So that would be more of like taking two swings at it in different ways where both swings are not a huge percentage for success, but some. And look, I mean, you're giving Sam Darnold great receivers, a quarterback, friendly coach, like a lot of things that he did not have in these other places. So I would be intrigued by it. I like it. And, or if you're talking like 40 million for Baker Mayfield, if that's what he's going to demand, well, I'm not into that either. We talked about that. I like the Baker Mayfield idea for two years and 50, but not for, you know, three years and 90 or a hundred or 100 or more than that,

Darnold might be kind of this year's Baker Mayfield. And if it doesn't work out, then he's a backup quarterback. He's shown willing to do that. And you can start the other guy. So yeah, I'm definitely into that idea more than I would be some other of the potential quarterbacks who are just kind of guys who you know there is no upside there's no super arm talent because that's the thing like one thing about sam darnold is the

guy has amazing arm talent it's a good starting spot like we have seen quarterbacks in the past vinny testaverti if you want to go old school like they had the arm talent and then when they found the right situation jeff george was like this in atlanta they were able to do and minnesota they were able to do something those are some throwbacks uh but you know of course geno smith is the most recent example and tannehill uh let me run down a couple more of these comments uh you are in for a longer show manny because this is your last show of the year for now and you'll be popping back in from time to time but as far as our regular times so we haven't gotten to a couple other things i wanted to get to so if you had plans then cancel them uh but i want to get to some of these comments uh nathan says i'm tired of the vikings corners not

working out i know that's been one of the reasons that set them back honestly we can't forget that going back to the late spielman drafts that desperately tried to fill holes, drafting a tight end, drafting a center, like non-premium positions. That was one of the things that set them back quite a ways. Will says having Flores in the room for a full off season and draft process will be hugely beneficial. I don't think that anyone is a draft miracle worker, but I do think Brian Flores weighs the odds in your favor. New England drafted extremely well with Brian Flores for their secondary. So he is a guy that I definitely think that having him helps you. And that's one thing about the draft that people don't always

understand is that the coaching staff is influencing the picks. That's not to say that Quasey doesn't own that 2022 draft, but we have to consider who the defensive coordinator is and what he was looking for in that draft versus Brian Flores. Alex says, I saw a mock that would have McCarthy going in the top eight. It is really difficult, is really going to be difficult to get a good quarterback prospect. It's crazy how all over the map J.J. McCarthy and Bo Nix are. I think what we know from that is that nobody knows where those guys are going. I think we know where the top three are going and everybody else.

It's just all over the map. Bradley says, all I want is hope again. I haven't had that since 2019 and that hope won't return until we take a real attempt at drafting a rookie quarterback but the higher we take the quarterback the higher my hope yeah i i mostly agree with that except for somebody brought up to me manny that uh dante call pepper was 11 and akili smith was three so like do you are you worried about trading from 11 to 3 with that and you no matter how much we know about the draft, we're still unclear about it.

But J.J. McCarthy, do you have a take on him? Because it's wild what we've seen, like this crazy swing from he's a second rounder, he's a late first, now he's top eight for some people. What is going on with this guy? He hasn't played a game in a while. Yeah, I mean, McCarthy is just, like I've've said before he's just a hard guy to figure out because i don't know well number one he's so young he's only 21 years old so you've got that going and

he just wasn't really you know relied upon to do do a lot for Michigan because that roster was so loaded. And so that's why he can play in a national championship game and throw what, like 20 passes? 18. 18. 18 passes. So, like, you know, and even in the Big Ten championship game against Iowa, like, he didn't have to do anything in that game because Michigan knew Iowa wasn't going to be able to score. So, you know, the only time where I really saw him really have to, you know, take over the offense and really kind of generate points with his arm was against Ohio State on the last game of the regular season where he threw closer to like 30 passes and had a pretty

good game throwing the ball. I think he's got the physical tools. He's got a pretty good arm. He can move around a little bit. He's not like blazing fast, but he's got some quickness and he can throw on the run, which is good. So there's physical talent there. I'm just wondering, like, is he a guy that, especially when you consider his youth, is he a guy that you draft and he may have to be like Jordan Love where he sits for like two or three years before he sees the field because there's just so much more development that needs to happen. The problem is the Vikings don't have like an Aaron Rodgers franchise quarterback

that you can have starting for the next, you know, three or three, four years before you put McCarthy in there and don't tell me Kirk cousins because Kirk cousin is not that guy that you're doing that for. So that's, that's the kind of the question I have about JJ McCarthy is like, you know, how, you know, what is his ceiling like and how soon do we really get to see him develop and grow into a starting quarterback in the league? I feel like Bo Nix and Michael Penix, while there's question marks about them too,

I feel like because of their age and their experience that they're going to have maybe a little bit more juice in them to be, to be ready to go. Now, McCarthy might end up being like the best guy out of those three guys. Who knows? I mean, it's just hard to tell with these guys, but you know, it just, I'm just really interested to see how JJ McCarthy plays out because I think there's talent there, but I just don't know where it's going to go. And it might depend on where he ends up being drafted.

So this has become a thing in my email inbox is people try to sell me on their favorite of the three. And my answer is always like, yeah, sure. Like all of them have downside and upside. Those three that are not Drake May, Caleb Williams and Jaden Daniels. Bo Nix is old, Pennix is injured, and McCarthy is young and raw and so forth.

And I think of the three, McCarthy has been, at least eye test wise for me, the least impressive. I watch and I go, when does the first round stuff happen? And I know people could do, don't send me your film breakdowns. That's not my point. My point is that there's ups and downs to all these guys like there is a lot of prospects that are not going to be taken first second or third overall but if they take them and they tell us we're into this guy and that's why we picked them then i'm good with that like if they pick them and kevin o'connell says look i understand jj mccarthy didn't throw

a lot of passes but like here's why i love them i'm like good okay let's do it let's see let's find out because even though i did tweet on draft day 2017 that patrick mahomes would be the best quarterback in the draft class and as a bit people don't get it all the time i i went back and quote tweeted that i was like hey just saying uh but i don't believe in all the time. I went back and quote tweeted that. I was like, hey, just saying. But I don't believe in my own ability to scout quarterbacks to know. I still think that the randomness is so high that if they take them, then I'm good. So you don't have to try to sell me. Look at this stat that shows that you don't have to sell me.

I've gotten these. It's funny. I've gotten them on all the quarterbacks. I've gotten them on McCarthy, Knicks, and Pennix. This is the reason why he's like oh he might be i don't know sure if you like them then that's great but i really just want them to like one of them and then i'll be totally fine with it because we really don't know uh dirty flacco which is a really funny name says when we drafted teddy i called that we would win in 2018. I was banking on Teddy's maturation team built around him. Then Teddy got hurt, made it to the NFC Championship with Case.

And that's exactly what we're talking about for a timeline. To get there, it did take time to build around Teddy. But they had legitimate chances. And who knows what happens in 2016 if Adrian Peterson's healthy or if the offensive line doesn't fall apart and so forth. But that's exactly the timeline that they should be trying to recreate. Aaron says people forget that the Chiefs were able to continue to build around Mahomes when he was on his rookie deal. He didn't come into the league making $50 million per year.

That's right. When they brought him in, that was one of the reasons, actually, is that I think they liked Alex Smith, but he was also up for a contract extension because when they traded him to Washington, they signed him to this huge extension and they just didn't want to do that. So they drafted someone a little more dynamic. It wasn't just that they were like, I don't know, he's pretty mid. It was also the money as well. Papa Roach, cutting our life into pieces as the last resort says uh my big question is do you draft mccarthy this year or sanders next year i'm leaning sanders that's if they tank i don't think they're in a position to tank uh looks to me like sure sanders will

probably go number one two or three next year very very hard to just win two games. Now, if they said they were going to do that, oh, hell yeah. I mean, you know how I feel about tanking, but I just don't see that as being a legitimate possibility. Nate says you can use cap from next year. This year, if the Vikings want to. Yeah, that's true. You can always set up your cap for the future

to have the bigger hits down the road. They could do that if they wanted to, and that's true. You can always set up your cap for the future to have the bigger hits down the road. They could do that if they wanted to. And that's okay. But if you're doing that to bring back Kirk and then pushing everything down the road and then hurting yourself in the future when ultimately you don't have Kirk, I just don't buy that. I think that there are people in the league, though, who think that's what you in the league though who think like that's what you should do is just keep pushing money down the road down the road down the road and i think we've already seen that enough so i just don't see the point i just don't i just don't see the point in doing that i mean honestly like all due respect to kirk and kirk is really

good nobody is saying that he sucks. Okay. I just don't see the point in bringing him back. I mean, it's just that simple. And people can think I'm crazy or a hater or whatever. I don't care. I just don't really understand the logic in bringing him back at this point, because what are you ultimately trying to accomplish by bringing him back? Your ceiling at best is probably nine and eight and maybe you make the playoffs as a wildcard team is that enough for people people okay with that like not these folks i'm not i'm not okay with that i want more i want a future i think i think that a lot of people tried to talk themselves into uh over the years like hey if they just do this

with kirk and and they and they tried really hard to get on board and hey if it's just a new coach if it's just an offensive line if it's just if it's just if it's just if it's just a new defensive coordinator if it's just whatever and at some point you just run out of if it's just and get to the point where you realize the only way to open up that window it to actually compete for a super bowl is to move on and and take roll the dice like that's the only thing you can really do like you've sort of boxed yourself into this position where that's the only thing that you can actually do is to roll the dice because if you bring him back i think we already know where that's going so anyway uh let's talk about just you know something else

uh you guys are funny some of you guys are funny in the comments. Anyway, I wanted to know this from yesterday's Super Bowl. Just when you go back and watch this one, Manny, as I know you will, what are you going to see in the Super Bowl where you go, dude, I forgot that.

You're going to remember for sure the punt going off the dude's that. You're going to remember for sure the punt going off the dude's foot. You're going to remember the final play to McCole Hardman and a lot of other stuff that happened in this game that were the big plays. But that's my favorite part of watching old Super Bowls, old playoff games is I go, and I'll text you all the time. Dude, I was watching this game. I totally forgot that this guy scored or that this guy made a play or what etc etc what's the thing from the super bowl that you're going to be like oh yeah that was a huge part of this game and i totally forgot about it this is an easy one for me it's

the niners having a third and four right after the two minute warning and ste Steve Spagnuolo blitzing Trent McDuffie at Brock Purdy, causing the incomplete pass. If the Niners pick up the first down there, they run the clock down, and Moody kicks the field goal, and the Niners are champions. But it was an incomplete pass. It was a great, great blitz dial-up by Steve Spagnuolo and Trent McDuffie, being the talented player that he is, put the pressure on Brock Purdy, and that changed the entire outcome of the game to me,

from my perspective of it forced the Niners to have to kick the field goal a lot early. It gave Patrick Mahomes a lot of time to move down and, you know, get them in position to, I mean, hell, they almost won the game right there at the end of regulation, and then Butker hit the tying field goal. Harrison Butker, by the way, you talk about a hell of a kicker, man. I mean, Justin Tucker might be the greatest kicker

of this generation, but Harrison Butker, when you look at the clutch kicks that that guy has made for the Chiefs over the last four or five years, it's unbelievable. But yeah, that blitz of Trent McDuffie to put the pressure on Purdy to force that incomplete pass was just everything to me. And it really, it's one play, it's one blitz,

but it really changed everything for the rest of that game um so that's that's the one that i think three years from now i will have forgotten about but then when i watch the replay of this game i'm gonna be like that's right that was the play right there that ultimately really decided things and allowed for everything else after it to happen so um that's that's the one for me that's the one i'm always going to remember yeah i mean the chris jones on a couple of different rushes remember early in the game chris jones won on a rep where brock purdy had debo samuel open and he just couldn't quite get the accuracy on that. If he's not pressured, he throws a touchdown, probably 90 out of 100 times. And instead, Chris Jones is there.

And then third and four at the end of the game, there's Chris Jones again. And he causes that incompletion where Juwan Jennings is open. He wins against the corner. And that outbreaking route, he's going to get five yards and get a first down and maybe even get into the end zone. And instead,ones is there i probably will remember that though because chris jones is always there in every one of these super bowls that dude belongs in the hall of fame he is my go-to with hey you know you should really look at defensive tackles who could rush the passer please i'm so tired of watching the defensive tackles

not get any pressure at all for the Vikings over the years. I wonder if I'll remember how important that the blocked extra point was. Like I will remember the blocked extra point, but just as time goes by and you don't think about it for a while, then you go back and watch. That ended up being a humongous difference maker because then the chiefs were able to go down

and just kick a field goal to be able to tie the game as opposed to having to get into the end zone and it changed entirely just the dynamic of how things felt and how close the chiefs were even though it was only one point but that difference between being a field goal way and being a touchdown away is just such a different vibe and such a different feeling. And that was such a weird play. Jake Moody kicks two field goals that are bombs, but then kicks it off the side of his leg and gets it blocked.

It was just so strange that there was a lot of, there was a lot of plays where both teams seem to feel so pressured that they did things that were uncharacteristic to them for the rest of the season, including both running backs who rarely ever lose the football, both ending up fumbling and the chiefs fumbled a couple other times and they, you know, the 49ers didn't pick it up. There was a lot of randomness that went into that game as well. Maybe one of the more random super bowls, as far as bounces and things like that playing into it, that's probably it as well, but that blocked kick man. And you're right about Harrison Butker. And this is why the super bowl really does take

everybody on a roster even when you have patrick beholmes harrison butker has to kick it from the the other side of the world to get them there and chris jones has to create pressure and trent mcduff he's got to play great legerius need and their uh their linebackers had to play really really well to slow down their running game, to slow down George Kittle. And they won by how much? Just this much. Just one play at the end. I mean, it's crazy.

So I think it was a memorable Super Bowl. It was really enjoyable in the second half of the game. And that's one that I think will go down as putting patrick mahomes over the edge as being in the conversation for the greatest ever and i i just i'm a little bored by all those kind of like lebron or jordan like i don't know whatever you think is fine i don't i don't care um in fact the first day that i uh was doing the show on our old radio station. My first day I had us go through and Jonathan Harrison produces on this show, had us go through like all the ridiculous debates that sports radio always does.

And, and you know, whether it's Brady or my homes is kind of for like talking head TV more than me. But it elevated him to a different level to a, when you start talking about best quarterbacks ever, it's like Montana, Brady, Mahomes is right there. And that's probably how it will exist in like a bigger context to me. Yeah.

I mean, it just, to me, I mean, the LeBron MJ debates, I'm just so tired of it. You know, I said it five, six years ago when it was talked about i was sick of it um and the mahomes brady thing is is just especially since patrick mahomes is still probably has like at least at least six or seven more like great years in front of him you know provided he stays healthy like this guy's he's 28 years old he's not going anywhere anytime soon like he's gonna be around so there's just so much more that he can do and so many more opportunities that he's gonna have that you just it's hard to really tell like where he's gonna end up how many super bowls is he gonna win like did i think even after he won his third did i think tom brady was to end up winning seven Super Bowls?

No, I didn't think about that because you just don't. It was unheard of. So you just don't really know how it's going to play out. I think you just look at what Patrick Mahomes has done really in all three Super Bowls, but these last two, these last two years in particular, the way he just came up with just some of the biggest moments and not even necessarily throws. We're talking about plays with his legs where he's

taking off and running in the moments when the Chiefs need him to do it most. That's the kind of stuff that you really, that I think really defines like the greatness of a player Montana you know doing it against Cincinnati a long drive to hit John Taylor and Super Bowl 23 like that's the stuff you think of Brady doing it so many times in different Super Bowls that's the stuff that I think just really kind of defines greatness is no matter what happens, when things are working against you, when you're down by double digits in a game, which we've seen happen to Mahomes now in all three of his Superbowl wins that he has trailed by at least 10 points in all three of those wins.

I think that's just the stuff that greatness is, is made of. And so for me, it's like, I don't really care where Patrick Mahomes is ranked, where people have him ranked. It is, even if you are a little bit tired of the Chiefs, which I understand, you know,

they've been in it every year, basically, since Mahomes has been around. You can't, you know, as a fan of the sport, I just can't help but to just marvel at just how amazing this guy is. And he is the definition of a winner. And it just seems like it doesn't matter what you throw at him. He just finds a way to get it done. And that's what I'm appreciating the most about him.

I'm not worried about all the comparison to Brady and all that other stuff. It just doesn't. It's irrelevant to me. I don't care. I agree. Yeah. I mean, both of them, I mean, it's just like the NBA, like, uh, I don't know. LeBron was pretty good. And, uh, Jordan is pretty good. So I don't know, like they can't play each other because you can't go back in time. And if you could, that'd be awesome. And you can't on video games. So maybe someone can resolve all these problems with a video game. But who is your comparison of Patrick Mahomes historically?

I have one in my head. Do you want me to say it and think for a second? Or do you have one? Like your historic comparison to Patrick Mahomes? Yeah, why don't you go first? Because I want to see where you're going with this. I think that Patrick Mahomes is john elway had elway landed with a good team elway was getting teams to the super bowl where you go back and you're like

yeah like that was the that was the team that he was taking there uh not always the best coaching along the way not always the best systems along the way and even i read an article where you know they were talking about mike shanahan was even talking about how like elway the offensive system was basically like just do something awesome for a long time and he would and then when the shanahan system came back with you know the kind of bill walsh influence for mike shanahan that's when he wins the super bowl and they built complete teams around him and so forth but mahomes started with those complete teams he started with travis kelsey he started with tyree kill he started with chris jones on defense and that's if elway had had that in the 80s he probably wins like three super bowls or he's right there because san francisco is right

there as well so he's probably right in that mix and then would have had a chance to win four or more uh ultimately he didn't because they got blown out by like washington they got blown out by the 49ers probably that style of play too if they could protect the quarterback like they can now because always just get murdered all the time if he could have been healthier at 100 throughout a season then he likely has an early career mahomes and much better numbers than he did early in his career and so forth where he was just grinding out wins for them so that that is my historical patrick mahomes comparison mine i'm going to go with Brett Favre with a little less recklessness. I mean, because ultimately when you look at, when you watch Patrick Mahomes play and he's, you know,

when he's just in the pocket making throws and dissecting a defense, like that's, he's gotten so much better at that. You know, it wasn't something that he did a lot of, like when he first, you know, was, you know, starting in 2018 and he still won the MVP of the freaking league when that, you know it wasn't something that he did a lot of like when he first you know was you know starting in 2018 and he still won the mvp of the freaking league when that you know without all that but you've seen him really evolve to being a really good just in in between the hashes passer and with pinpoint accuracy and making all the right decisions but he still has that sort of that playmaking i'm to make something happen when everything breaks down. He still has that in him.

And it's a lot like Brett Favre, except Mahomes doesn't throw it to the other team nearly as often as Brett Favre would do. You know what I mean? It's funny. I was watching. I came across on NFL Throwback, which is one of the best channels on YouTube ever. And I found that playoff game with the Packers and Rams where Favre threw six interceptions. And it was always funny hearing Favre talk about that game, too, because I think Mike Sherman was going to pull him out of the game or ask him if he wanted to come out of the game. And Favre said, he jokingly said, I think I got another pick in me or something like that. He said, and he stayed in the game and threw would like said he jokingly said i think i got another pick in me

or something like that he said and he stayed in the game and threw like another interception or whatever but you know if that game was just so funny to watch because farb is just kind of running around all over the place and he's just throwing the ball and balls are getting ticked tipped up in the air and picked off by anias williams and picked off by tommauly, the linebacker. Remember him? We see Mahomes still do a little bit of that, but he just, he almost never turns it over. He never throws it to the other team. So that to me is, is what kind of stands out. It's, it's, it's Brett Favre with the rocket arm and the ability to kind of create on his own when things break down, but he's not making nearly as many mistakes throwing the ball to the other team as Brett Favre did. Even when he threw the interception, I was shocked.

I was like, he never does that. He usually doesn't. His interceptions are incredibly low for how many times he throws. And he just does not get sacked very often at all. I'll give you a funny one before we wrap up. That came to mind for me was Aaron Rogers. If he was a good person, that's what he is.

Well, the other one I thought of too, I honestly thought of was Johnny Manziel. If he had his head on straight, you know, cause there was kind of the same thing. I mean, Manziel was at Texas A&M and he was running around, scrambling around and just throwing the ball off his back foot.

And it was just making plays and making things happen. And then obviously we know what happened with him and he just didn't have his head on straight and he just never, never turned into anything, but it was the same type of sort of backyard football player that, you know, plays with a lot of just joy and intensity and competitive drive and everything too. So yeah,

it's just, um, he's a joy to watch rather your chiefs fan or not, man. You just have to really just appreciate, I think what we've seen for the last six years from him and it's not going away anytime soon provided he stays healthy there are a lot of jealous people who try to find some reason to

dislike him you can't really and the chat has brought up steph curry i feel the same way about steph curry where it's you i mean the guy changed the way the game is played and he's not the first guy to run around, but he's really the first to play. Like you were saying without recklessness and yet still have be a playmaker, make some of the throws that he does on a consistent basis. Just like Steph Curry's not the first guy to shoot a three, but he's the first guy to shoot it as prolifically as this. And also just comes across very likably very you know right i mean super competitive yet at the same time not obnoxious and look if you're a team that plays against them and loses all the time then you probably can't stand the guy but there's no

actual reason to so it's really just jealousy from every other team wishing that that was your guy and that you were there every single year but i I think that, you know, the way Mahomes has handled the pressure and the success and this year was so impressive. I mean, they were down a bunch of times and it looked like it was kind of over. And yet he found a way to keep bringing them back, bringing them back after that game against the Raiders. Everybody thought, man, this team has been solved. There is nothing more to see here. We'll catch you next year. Chiefs. When you try to rebuild some parts of your roster and they end up with a Superbowl ring, just an unbelievable season, the way that he was able to bring them back with receivers who couldn't really catch the ball halfway through the year, the adjustments they made. So yeah, I mean, it's a, it's, it's a generational player who has been a joy to watch, uh, except for maybe next year, somebody else will be there and I'm tired with everybody else. So anyway, well, uh, I will say this Manny, and again, you're not done with the show,

just as less regular as it is in the season. So you will be back plenty of times in the off season, just not every single, uh, Monday and Thursday, but it has been a joy to work with you and uh it has been so much fun i'm glad we did this we kind of were just talking at a links game that you know we go to those sometimes it's just like we we need to get you on the show man we need to get back to those old days when we used to be on the radio together and it has just been incredibly fun for me to have you here every monday and thursday throughout the season so definitely look forward to the next time you're on whenever that is when news breaks where there are big moves and we'll plan on doing this again regularly next season but it's it's one of my best

moves ever for purple insider is to bring you on to do this show with me regularly so i cannot thank you enough for all the time you have given and you should be appreciative to me for making you a very wealthy man for these appearances. So I want to see like some of the things that you're buying with all the cash that you got from these appearances show up in that background a little bit for next year. We'll start, I'll start flashing a graphic of every time I buy something with the money that you give me. No, I, I, you know, I got to thank you too. I mean, obviously we've known each other for a long me. No, I, you know, I got to thank you, too. I mean, obviously, we've known each other for a long time,

and we've become, you know, from working together and doing this, we've become really good friends. And I'm just appreciative that you've allowed me to be on the air with you. It's been a lot of fun. I can't wait for next season. I'm already kind of, when the game ended last night, it's the moment I have every year, the Super Bowl's over. It's like, damn, football's over. You know what I mean? And now it's like moment I have every year, the Superbowl is over. It's like, damn football's over.

You know what I mean? And now it's like, okay, off season draft, free agency. Okay. Pre-season get here as soon as possible. So yeah,

I'm looking forward to this off season to see what the Vikings do with the quarterback position. And I can't wait till next year. I'm looking forward to it. Absolutely. So thank you again, Manny. Well,

actually, so the people, so the people want a draft prediction. You can give one now, wait till next year i'm looking forward to it absolutely so thank you again manny well actually so the people so the people want a draft prediction you can give one now but manny will be back for the draft but if you want to give one now if you want to leave your parting shot go ahead uh just top of my head right now i think they're going to draft a quarterback at 11. which one bo nicks, that's his pick I'll take it Alright, thanks everybody for watching Great crowd, again, as always tonight

So many comments that sometimes it's hard to get to All of them, but I appreciate you guys As always, every evening And we'll see when the Vikings Next make a Super Bowl We'll be here for it And the audiences will be really big that week Thanks Manny, we'll. We'll see you soon. And thanks everybody for watching. We'll catch y'all next time. Football.