Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - What's still to watch this Vikings season? Plus comparing Stefon Diggs and Justin Jefferson

Episode Date: November 27, 2020

Matthew Coller attempts to preview Vikings-Panthers with Pioneer Press reporter Dane Mizutani but they ultimately end up discussing the Vikings' future and what's left to focus on this season. Some key questions like, what happens if the play well, what happens if they struggle the rest of the way? And former NFL receiver Donald Jones joins to discuss the Jefferson/Diggs trade. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Folks, do you feel like everything these days is go, go, go? It's non-stop, from work, to friends, to family, and a million pressing issues. Sometimes you just need to take a playoff and hit the reset button. That's when you reach for a Coors Light. It's made to chill. Hey, it's that time of year in Minnesota again to get out on the lake, go to the cabin, sit back, watch some baseball. Coors Light is the perfect refreshment to chill during these summer months. There's only one beer out there that's made to chill. The mountains on the bottles and cans turn blue when your beer is cold,

and that way you know it's time to chill. Hit that reset button with some mountain cold refreshment. Coors Light is cold lager, cold filtered, and cold packaged. It's literally made to chill. It's crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. Coors Light is the one you should choose when you need to unwind, when you want to hit the reset button, reach for the beer that is made to chill. Get Coors Light in the new look delivered straight to your door

with Drizzly or Instacart, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. In 2003, Nike signed 13-year-old Freddie Adu to a seven-figure contract. But Freddie didn't live up to the hype. He has turned down every single documentary project looking closely at the details of his career. Until now. People are going to look at everything you did because of the hype surrounding your arrival and what they think you can be. I'm Grant Wall, and this is American Prodigy, ready to do, from Blue Wire Podcast.

Welcome to the Vikings Carolina Panthers preview episode, kind of, but we also might just joke about stuff the whole time. Matthew Collar from the Pioneer Press making his debut appearance. Dane Mizutani, what's up, Dane? How you doing, Collar? I am doing okay. So I don't know where you want to start with this game. I think let's begin with does it matter at all? Because here's my sense for how Vikings fans

feel after the loss to Dallas that was that people went right back to like Zach Wilson gonna drop in the draft I mean just like the snap of the fingers okay the magical three-game ride is over oh Teddy's coming to town that's fantastic but no one can go to the stadium. So I guess I'll watch on TV. Like I think and you qualify as one of the more cynical media members, I would say. But I think that for a lot of Vikings fans from now on, it's more or less what is Justin Jefferson going to do and where are they going to draft? can you tell me that i am incorrect in my assessment no and and here's why because look the vikings can win the next two games they probably should win the next two games they'll be back to 500 of course the way this season's gone maybe then like games have been canceled by then the nfl's added an eighth playoff spot the vikings are actually in contention for a playoff spot but I I don't think fans will really care truly because and I hate to pile on because he was actually pretty good last week but it's just another reminder that like you don't have

that guy who's going to lead you to the promised land when it's a quarterback league and and you need a guy who's going to be able to get the ball back with two minutes left and at least tie the game you don't have to win the game but last week for as bad as the Vikings were and I guess for as good as Kirk Cousins was for most of the game he got the ball back down three with a minute 47 left and and went four yards and then basically threw the ball away on fourth down. Didn't even really give his guy a chance. Just threw it away, hugged it up in the air. But that's another reminder that he's not the guy, and I think that's – like, you're right.

Like, this game against the Panthers, I think more Vikings fans are probably cheering for a loss because it means you're one step closer to getting that guy out from under center and I also think that it means that Teddy Bridgewater will have beaten them and there are a lot of people who will look at Teddy Bridgewater on Sunday and say I wish that was still the quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings and I think a lot of those people are in the building as well judging about how nobody hesitated to tell us how much they enjoyed Teddy Bridgewater as a Minnesota Viking this week and even when I asked the defensive coordinators about Teddy Bridgewater and his sort of clutch history he was really good

in those late situations as a Viking and they went on and on about how he's a winner and that's just what's inside his heart and all those different things. And it felt like, who also might you be talking about when I'm asking this question? A little bit of shade there, maybe. I asked it about Teddy. I'm not sure you guys are entirely talking about Teddy. Now, let me say this. I kind of went off in the postgame about how they extended a quarterback who could have great games like

this, but they can't expect to carry a franchise. And that is not on Kirk Cousins for signing a very lucrative and well-structured contract. And that if you are putting him in those situations all the time by not getting stops on defense or fumbling the ball when he throws you a pass like Delvin Cook did or dropping a pass like Justin Jefferson did then I don't know what more Kirk Cousins is actually capable of but let me tell you where I've kind of come around on this is I get it with the fan frustration though because it's not just one game it's all it's a bunch of games it's the team not trusting him to pass when it gets to the end of the Seahawks game and they run it up the middle for no yards instead it's all the games from 2018 where it was close it's all

the games from 2019 and sort of a slap across the face to like ah there's your quarterback couldn't do it again so I get it like I was looking at it as an individual game but after a week of talking about it with people I understand much more where fans are coming from with their frustration of the end of that game. Yeah. And it's not, yeah, you look at that game. Like if you knew nothing about Kirk cousins, like you were an alien who got, you know, fast placed on earth last week, Sunday, you would have watched him play and been like, this guy's pretty good.

Like that was a, you know, I was an unfortunate drop at the end. Who knows if that guy catches the ball, you know, if Jefferson catches the ball, maybe they march down the field. But my thing is, like, it's not against the rules for Kirk Cousins to make a play after that, right? Like, everyone who apologized for him on Twitter or, you know, whatever, social media, like, they're like, oh, that Jefferson drop was huge. Like, never mind the dude made, like, an incredible catch earlier in the game,

like, consistently burns his guy, like, caught the touchdown, that good throw by Kirk, but Jefferson blew his guy off the line for that bomb touchdown in the fourth quarter. Like, we want to blame all of that, you know, their shortcomings in the final drive on Jefferson. Like, it was second down. I mean, Kirk had two downs to get six yards against a shell defense. Like the Cowboys were saying here, take yards. It's what,

it's what defenses do late in the game. And he, and he couldn't get six yards like, and that, like you said, that's more of a, you know, an indication of kind of who he is. And that's more of a reflection of who he's been throughout his career and who he's going to continue to be for the next couple of years here. Because like you said, he has that long extension, lofty money extension, just he's going to be here for a while. So let me ask you this. What do you think that fans have to live for over these next couple of weeks?

Because the way that you just laid it out it feels so bleak and I can't tell you that you're wrong when you say like oh well this is the quarterback you're locked into and this is kind of how it's going to go for your future and oh yeah by the way there's still like a bunch of games left to be played this year you're not entirely out of it you're not not entirely into it. It's kind of the worst-case scenario. So what? And I don't think that we can say Hercules Mata'afa, Dane. I know that you have an appreciation for him,

but I don't think we can put him on the list. So what are they supposed to watch the rest of the season for? No one's going out and doing anything. They've got to watch football. Yeah, I think, and dare I say say it because the more wins you get the further away you get from probably a franchise quarterback like you probably have a chance at zach wilson still if you you don't have a chance at fields or lawrence um the jaguars and the jets are just too bad but wilson's funny has a hell of an arm and, you know, can actually navigate in the pocket,

scramble outside of it unlike some people who are under center now. But I think if you're a Vikings fan, you probably just hope to get to the playoffs. I don't know. Like, don't you just probably hope for wins at this point? Because you're going to win the next two games. Like, I guess I could see Teddy beating the Vikings this weekend. And I guess you can – Kirk's always apt to lay an egg here and there. But you would assume they win the next two games, and at that point,

you're too far away at 6-6 from Zach Wilson range. Then you just hope for the playoffs, I think. I don't know. I mean, maybe you can win another game here and it probably saves everyone's job in the building. But if you win the next two games, do you just hope they lose out then and they finish 6-10? At that point, you would want them to just win out.

Like, I don't know. Right. Because the drafts, I mean, picking 12th or picking 16th, like, what's the difference? Right. I mean, there's probably not that much. Now, drafting, if you're not drafting in the top five to seven, you're probably not getting a franchise-changing player.

That's where all the very elite type of talents are and the quarterbacks that you mentioned. There's probably three quarterbacks going in the top five, depending on where Cincinnati ends up, that they would obviously trade out if they feel like Joe Burrow is going to come back though I think like galaxy brain you draft the quarterback anyway and then trade Burrow later but they probably won't do that so you're still talking about you know being in the middle of that draft so you have no real other choice but to just hope that they win each week

it just feels like there's a disgruntledness to this to watching it on a weekly basis and almost where there's fans I think who root for Cousins to not come through at the end of those games so the organization does not get convinced oh yeah this is the real version of Kirk Cousins and here's the thing about him is that was the 32nd ranked defense. And they lost to Washington a couple days later. And even though they were coming off of a bye, the 32nd ranked defense that you put up good numbers against. And so nothing has really changed. It's very much like how the schedule falls, how everyone else is playing,

all those types of things that surround Kirk Cousins that determine your success or failure. So if you're going to go forward next year, 2022, with him, it's like, well, can he do it? I don't know, because it depends on everyone else. Right. And I guess that kind of leads into your other point. I guess if you're a Vikings fan, you probably just watched this last month and last month and a half four guys like you know Dalton's still fun Jefferson's still fun like there's still fun players on this team I guess if you just could watch the game I'll take a line up from Kirk like if you could treat each game as

its own entity like yes then you know we've you could have fun watching the Vikings, but deep down everyone knows, like, this isn't it. And, like, this isn't the team that's going to magically get over the hump. And this isn't the guy who's going to magically turn into someone who can win those games when he gets the ball back with two minutes. And I think that's what it comes down to. Somebody asked me in the Friday mailbag, I think it's a great question, and we will get to whether the Vikings will beat the Panthers and all that. So we'll get there.

But somebody asked me a good question, I thought, which was, like, is it possible to build enough around Kirk Cousins to reach the Super Bowl? Now, I think that the answer is yes, because Jared Goff did it. Jimmy Garoppolo did it. You know, Nick Foles slash Carson Wentz, and we see that neither of them is a great quarterback the NFC is kind of going to be open here I think going forward uh at the same time threading the needle is pretty tough when you are spending so much money on him so give me give me your take on that yeah I think you can do it just because like like you mentioned,

the guys that have done it out of the NFC. The NFC also sucks this year. It really does. So, yeah, but everything would have to break perfectly, and you probably don't want to be in a position where he has to make the play that's going to win the game. But yes, I think Kirk is good enough if he can avoid the catastrophic mistakes that sometimes he can't avoid. But I think he's good enough. He's accurate enough. He's cautious enough, I guess. Like, if everything broke the right way, if Dalvin continued to be probably the best running back in the league, like if you got back to a defense that was respectable and not giving up 31 points to Andy Dalton, yeah,

I guess that he's probably a guy you can piece it together with and get to the Super Bowl. But it just feels really, really hard to believe that the Vikings are in a position to do that now. Because like you said, the defense is aging. Dalvin's great. Adam Thielen's great. Justin Jefferson's great. The offense is pretty good.

But you have so much money tied up in your quarterback that i don't see how you can find or build pieces that around him um that are going to make you a viable contender again i think your window if you want to call it that was probably a couple seasons ago when he was it was probably before he got there honestly but the first the biggest window was when he signed that deal the first year and and you didn't have to commit you You had the team you wanted, and he was just supposedly the missing piece. Now you've got to rebuild it around him with him making $30-plus million a year. It's going to be real tough. Not to mention that your running back suddenly becomes expensive next year.

This was his cheap year. When you sign the extension, you get the first year cheap, but just like Anthony Barr, you've got to pay the bill down the road, and that's what they're going to have to do with Delvin Cook. So if he slips even a little, then that changes the math as well. And, boy, are they doing everything to make sure he slips in the future. I mean, just if he dies, he dies, right? I thought that Kirk was talking about COVID.

He was actually talking about handing the ball to Delvin Cook. If he dies, he dies. Just keep handing it to him. So through the other lens on this, another kind of good question that was thrown my way is, let's say this thing does go sideways the rest of the way. Let's say Teddy on Sunday beats them 41-16. Okay. Teddy runs them out of the building.

And then, I don't know, they'll beat the Jaguars no matter what. But it just doesn't go well from there they lose the tasem hill they lose at the end of the year to maybe matt patricia who knows he's getting fired or something slowder maybe because playing for is it chicago uh i think i think chicago had him i don't know if they dropped him or yeah he's not important no most certainly is not unless you're on some corners of the internet. But if it goes sideways, if it goes very wrong from here on out, and they finish 5-11 or 6-10, then what?

Are there implications, do you think, for coach, general manager, quarterback, whomever, or do you say that they stay the course? I think they just continue to stay the course because that's like what these guys do like and i don't know i think if you were going to change course it would have been last year like yeah you did what you needed to do but you impressively beat the saints but then you came up short again and then just seemed like if you wanted to have a clean break it was but instead you extended the coach you extended the GM and then let the GM that you extend to extend the quarterback so you're kind of just tied to them I don't know like I don't think the Wilts

are just going to be like okay maybe they finish six and ten maybe they finish five and eleven I don't know I don't think they're going to say like clean the whole house especially because are you going to clean house are you going to get rid of Steelman are you going to clean house? Are you going to get rid of Steelman? Are you going to get rid of Zimmer when you're going to bring in the next guy and the next coach and they're going to be stuck with cousins? I don't think the break is – there's not a clean-up break, like, right now. So I think they would just run it back again and hope that, oh,

the Neil Hunter's back and Anthony Barr's back and maybe next year will be better. But I don't think they're going to, I think if you're frustrated with this regime and you're a Vikings fan that's tired with this regime, sorry, but I think you got it for another couple of few years. I do too. 2021 is going to be a lot of pressure. I think that you can give a mulligan to some extent to some people for this year. But you certainly can't if it's 2021 because you're going to try to fix other spots. You're going to draft somebody, all those things. And if you want to sell that your 2020 draft was so good, everyone gave you an A across the world, gave you an A for your draft.

And for Justin Jefferson alone, you get an A. But when you look at the structure of who they pay, all their money goes to like seven guys, which means the rest has to be filled in by draft picks. Your 2016 draft is all gone. Your 2017 draft is almost all gone except for Delvin Cook. Your 2018 draft, the first two guys start, the rest are nothing. Even the 2019 draft, we have not seen anybody who's a depth player emerge, so you really need some of those 15 guys that you picked to become serious role players, and that's just tough because that's entirely draft luck. Now, switching back to Sunday, you confidently said twice that you think the Vikings will win against the Carolina Panthers. Why is that?

I just think they're better, like, across the board. And, I don't know, this feels like a game. Look, I know the Carolina Panthers' defense is a little bit better than people give them credit for. They shut out the Lions last week, so maybe they're copping it. But, like, a shutout against the Lions doesn't really count. I just think this is a game where even if Adam Thielen can't go, like Dalvin Cook carries the load. And like you said, they're going to let him try.

They're going to give it to him 30 times again, and his legs might fall off. But he's good enough, and I think probably the defense of the Carolina Panthers is bad enough, is more so it, that I think Dalvin runs wild on Sunday. And, you know, the secondary probably has a hard time with the Panthers receivers. D.J. Moore's really good. Robbie Anderson's really good.

But I just think as a whole the Vikings are just a step above. And, yeah, maybe Kirk bounces back. It would be kind of funny if Teddy just came in and blew their doors off, but I just don't see that happening. Yeah, I also think that it's funny that both teams have four wins now i know the panthers have one more loss but they both have four wins and uh for one two of the vikings wins came against houston and detroit which oh my gosh never let those two teams play against each other again on thanksgiving not until they're fixed um deshaun watson was fun but the rest of it was just so awful and and then who who

did washington and dallas to us like could you not flex that thing to the moon maybe what are you doing but the fact that the vikings are capable of allowing other teams who have weapons to beat them to me says i think they'll win too but i'm not super confident about it because anybody who comes in and faces the vikings with multiple offensive weapons seems to just have their day and they have a good offensive coordinator in joe brady who i know that mike zimmer mentioned their yards after catch like he finds ways to create space with all of these playmakers and robbie anderson has turned out to be a great receiver so all Teddy Bridgewater has to do is pretty much just get rid of the ball and then his guys can make plays I don't think that that's a really good situation for the Vikings defense and it really

told you last week I think just how many things need to change on the defense for it to be good I mean we don't know if Jeff Gladney's going to be good yet. I am reserving judgment, but last week wasn't great. The defensive line needs to be entirely replaced. Like Hunter, maybe he comes back. I don't know about the contract situation. Pierce will come back. Okay, there's two guys. You need like four more.

I mean, every team's got a rotation. You need like four more defensive linemen. So I think if you don't pressure Teddy Bridgewater at all and those guys have time to get open, I think we're looking at the same game as against Dallas. It's just going to come down to who has the ball at the end or whatever. Yeah, I hear what you're saying, because you look at last week, and Andy Dalton, a month ago, had so bad of a concussion that he couldn't walk off the field. Two weeks ago, he had COVID, and then last week, destroyed the Vikings.

So, like, yeah, I hear what you're saying. And you look at just across the board, the weapons the Panthers have, I think a big weapon that they don't have, unless McCaffrey plays this week, and it sounds like, I don't know, like he's questionable now. He wasn't going to play yesterday. And obviously, like saying, oh, them not having Christian McCaffrey is a big loss is like, well, duh. But he's their best weapon.

And maybe you just hope that Gladney can lock into something, playing good coverage here and there. He's had a couple of good games. I don't know. Is Cameron Dantzler good? I don't know. But like there's enough there, I think, on defense still where it's not inconceivable for me to think that they're going to get

at least a few stops. And then I don't think the Vikings offense is going to be stopped. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for sure. I think Carolina, if they had even an average defense, is probably like a six or seven win team. Their offense has been legit this year, but they've had the same problem as the Vikings. Let's wrap up on this question for you, Dane, if you need a second to think.

Go ahead. What's the funniest Zoom thing that's happened to us all year long? Because we have spent – when did we start doing this? Like June where we were just on Zoom calls and Zoom calls and Zoom calls and even to today more Zoom calls because we're not allowed in the locker room because of COVID. You guys all know that. So the funniest thing to happen on a zoom call i have two um and then

maybe you be the judge which one which one is funnier okay training camp you know months ago when actually shout out to vikings pr because they got us pretty much everyone on the roster we couldn't go in the locker room we talked talked to everyone. We talked to players that I don't have any will to talk to again. But, like, we talked to everyone. Yes. And we talked to Kennedy Polamalu at one point, running back's coach. Nobody requested him. And he sat down.

PR's like, all right kennedy's up and like two people ask questions like not like so he like feels like it we're not wasting his time and then like it goes dead silent and kennedy pull them all he's like what is this like that was funny because that was like, I don't know, this was like very 2020 of us to like be talking to a coach we never would have talked to on a video call. And then like being so burned out by that point of talking to strangers and being like, I don't want to talk to this guy either. Nobody even like,

was like, yes, nobody asked like a third question to like didn't he say this is awkward like i think he actually said the words this is awkward because it was like i don't know like a lot of so that was a highlight a low light i don't know what you want to say i think it was a highlight i think it's a highlight i think he'll never forget it yeah and maybe he was sad at the time because nobody wanted to talk to him. But I think Kennedy will look back in 2020. Maybe he was sad at the time. What's your other one? Last week after the game, like, no doubt.

I don't know. Like, I don't think it made it onto, like, the periscopes that the Vikings are allowed to, like, live stream. I think the – shout out to the videographer, like cut off early enough. So like, have you talked about this on the podcast? No, I have not mentioned it. So you can tell the story. I'll just tell the story. You have a connection, so you could tell it however you want to tell it. Well, my favorite, actually, I don't even need you to vote.

This was the best moment of Zoom. Like the Polo Mala thing is a nice runner up but like when when the Vikings PR says time for two more you know it means time for two more they're going to cut and Zimmer knows it means time for two more he's going to take the headset off immediately so time for two more comes up after the game Zimmer gets one question asked I forget what it was. It wasn't probably important. He was really, really upset after the game, didn't give much. So everyone on the Zoom knows. It's like, okay, this is the last one. Good. Well, my editor, John Shipley, who hadn't been on the Zoom at all, decides that this was the time he wants to turn his video on because he was writing a column.

And to be fair to him, like he had time to ask the question and probably thought like, all right, cool. Like I'll let the beat writers ask their questions. I'll let everyone go and then I'll ask last. So John turns his video on, gets ready to, you know, ask his question. And as he's asking, everyone else was like probably run out of things to say or knew john was gonna go chris thomason my guy comes on and barrels in and asks about the long snapper and uh it's always the long snapper with his i mean it's unbelievable the long snapper comes up but asks about i don't even know what the guy's name is andrew depaulo or something depaulo and as zimmer is andrew the the guy moving forward zimmer knowing it's his last question says i don't know takes the headset

off and john shipley tries to get zimmer's attention but but Zimmer can't hear him at that point because the headset's off. Hey, Mike, can you – and drops a, God damn it, on the screen. Everyone hears it. Like, does it get more 2020 than that? No, no. It's perfect. First, that we're on the Zoom.

Second, that my colleague interrupts my boss, and then my boss swears on the Zoom for everyone to hear. Like, we're repping at the Pioneer Press. And also, because all of us have it on our computers, it kind of echoes out through, like, the empty stadium. So it's just like, you know, him saying it loud and clear and then echoing through the stadiums. It was just absolutely perfect. I mean, on a daily basis, funny stuff happens. I think Gary Kubiak being informed by me that there is a documentary about Brett Jones and him looking bewildered as like, wait, there's a documentary?

Rightfully so. There is, man. There is. We saw all those Canadian dudes who were doing all the filming around Brett Jones. And so, yes, there is. And Gary said, I'll have to check it out. And then as he was taking off the headset, I was like, Brett Jones? I was like, what?

Are they messing with me? I'm like, no, there really is a documentary about brett jones he's huge in canada zoom man it's like we it would be better to be back in the locker room you get better stuff but like man there are some pretty funny moments that make you make you laugh and help you get through the year so i think we all thought we were going to be a little short on material and um we haven't been yeah so uh dane mizzutani the pioneer press um and with no hockey you are a vikings beat reporter this year normally you'd have some hockey to work with but not now buddy you're riding the rest of the way on this train, or the excuse train, as you have called it before. I swear that went over great.

So anyway, well, thanks for jumping on, man. This was super fun. And we will not make it your last appearance on the Purple Insider podcast. I promise. Awesome. Thanks for having me. Make sure you go to SodaStick.com to get your original Minnesota sports-inspired goods, and they have a huge deal from Black Friday through Cyber Monday,

20% off the entire SodaStick website. Cash, homie, use that promo code, and you can get 20% off everything, which also includes, for Christmas time and your holiday season, some very fun sweaters. The Ho Ho Homer Dome, the Straight Cash Ho Ho Homie sweater, and the Let It Skol, Let It Skol, Let It Skol sweater. Make sure you check those out. Go to SodaStick.com. That's S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com.

Make sure you use that promo code CASHHOMIE. You know where that comes from. You can get 20% off the entire site wide. Go do it. Thanks to a lack of natural athleticism or commitment or overbearing sports parents, fewer than 1% of 1% of 1% of people will ever play professional football. But instead of entering the NFL, they've joined another league, the League of Football Watchers.

This football season is much different, and Pepsi is here to get you ready every game day. No matter how you watch, whether it's me sitting in the press box at U.S. Bank Stadium, a very empty U.S. Bank Stadium, or if it's at home on your couch, which I've had to do this year for road games, Pepsi is the refreshment you need to power you through any game day, because Pepsi isn't made for those who play the game, it's made for those who watch it. Pepsi, made for football watching. Go to madeforfootballwatching.com to check out the latest football watching content from

Pepsi. Joining me on the show, it's been a little while since he has been on former nfl wide receiver donald jones what is up donald i'm good man thank you for having me on the show happy thanksgiving all that good stuff hope you ate well um because i surely did the kids were the kids are healthy everybody's healthy just trying to stay healthy out here in jersey that is very good and uh you're sitting in your car where it is 60 degrees in Jersey, so I am very jealous of you. I was not aware that New Jersey was, you know,

like one of those nice weather places. So maybe when we're all allowed to go on vacation again, that's where I'll stop by in the winter. Come on out. Come on out. I was about to go to the beach, but they shut it down. That's everything. Everything is shut down.

That's how I know that you'll always have time to podcast. So if you ghost me on a message podcast, then I'm going to know, like, you have time. You're just ghosting me. Yeah, yeah. So before the season, you and I got together and we watched tape of Justin Jefferson. And you know what? I'm going to say that we did a pretty good job looking at all of Justin Jefferson's skills because he's turned out to be an instant star in the league.

So I wanted to go over what you've seen from Justin Jefferson, sort of how what we were looking at has translated, but also kind of re-litigate now the Justin Jefferson for Stefan Diggs trade. I don't know how much of Jefferson you've been able to watch. I didn't send you tape grinding. But when we watched him from LSU, we saw a guy with the ball in his hands who's special. We saw a guy who made contested catches.

I checked on this because I remember you asking if he played basketball in high school. He did. He's just a natural athlete. And it just, Donald, could not have worked out better for the Vikings. I mean, he's been like a franchise-changingly good wide receiver. When we were watching his LSU tape, did you see that, or is this beyond what you thought he could do?

When I watch Justin Jefferson, when you watch his LSU tape, you see a guy who can make special catches down the field. You see a guy who is special with the ball in his hands. With his route running, you can see that athleticism in him. You can see he played basketball and the way he – just his fluidity and how he runs his routes and things like that. To me, and I tweeted this the other day, there are certain players who, especially at the wide receiver position, there are certain guys who, you know,

they're special with the ball in their hand, like a Jarvis Landry. You see certain guys who are crazy fast that can take the top off the defense. Then you have guys that are just pure wide receivers, like a Robert Woods type of guy, and like a Justin Jefferson, a guy who really can just play that position, understands the defense, how to get open, where he's supposed to be, route running, everything. And that's Justin Jefferson at such a young age. So the sky is really the limit if he can stay healthy,

if he stays stay healthy, if he stays in a good system and a quarterback who really wants to continue to get him the ball. Now, what do you think about how he has gone to being an effective outside wide receiver when he played the slot in college? Because I think anybody who plays the slot in college is at a benefit because so many NFL teams use condensed sets that bring you inside. Most of the great wide receivers in the league move around. Not everyone is Julio Jones who lines up outside

and can beat everyone deep down the field every single play. So I think that experience of playing inside is better than being a one-dimensional outside receiver. But he basically didn't play outside receiver in all 2019, and he comes in and he's immediately good at it. I mean, how tough from a wide receiver perspective is it to switch from inside to outside like that? I think that it can be tough, but, I mean,

I'd imagine I haven't seen his high school highlights and high school tape, but I'm sure in high school he played outside, you know, and it was like he played as the X and it was like he had to he had to he played as the x by himself and he always had to get open i'm sure he faced double coverage and all that stuff obviously lower level competition in high school on a day in day out basis but you still understand what a defense is trying to do to you and you still have to fight to get open and so now when you get into college, you move inside. I'm sure in his earlier years he might have played outside or inside

or whatever just so that he can get on the field playing behind other guys. And now they find him more on the inside playing in the slot just because they can utilize him the best way in there. When you have a guy who's in the slot, he's typically not facing the bump and run. You can move him around a lot and all of that stuff. But in his past previous years, I'm sure he's played outside. So now going into the league, you know, you put him inside, you put him outside, he can play anything. And that's just because, like I said, he seems to be a guy who truly understands everything that a defense is trying to do, what you're trying to do on offense.

And regardless if he's playing inside or outside, he can get open. It just doesn't really matter. And he has the speed to really push teams downfield. And that was the difference maker for me because a lot of times when you hear that a guy is in the slot in college and he's getting a lot of underneath passes, which he was at LSU, you go, but, I mean, is he fast? Can he really go down the field? And he comes into the NFL.

I mean, at the combine runs a 4-4, comes into the NFL, averages almost 20 yards a catch because they're going downfield with him. It's like every possible criticism of this guy in college, which wasn't that many, but every concern of him coming out has just turned out to be not a thing. There were some analysts who said, well, I'm not sure if his releases will get him off the line of scrimmage. And I sent you one of his releases and he kind of does the same one every time, but it works. I mean, he's just,

he's always been able to get open. I think that those technical elements can even grow because he's doing a couple of things that work now, but there's a lot more to learn as he goes forward. Yeah, I mean, he's definitely going to have to learn some more release moves as he moves forward. I mean, teams will start to key in. The DBs will start to key in on what he's doing in terms of his release moves,

all of that stuff. So you've got to be able to counter what they're doing to you and then counter that and counter that. You got to have a bunch of moves in your back pocket. Right now it's working for him. So keep on doing it. Don't fix what's not broken. I think, though, when you look at him, when you look at this offense,

they're going to continue to – they're going to move him around and do a lot more things moving forward so that he's not even facing that much bump and run coverage and things like that. I mean, teams are going to, because teams will start to try and key in on him. So now you got to put them in the slot. You got to move them in motion, put them in bunch and stack formations and all of that stuff so that he's not getting bumped and he can continue to get open. My issue with analysts, a lot of these guys haven't played football, you know?

And so what happens is you get placed in a certain box, even sometimes by coaches, just because this is how they want to utilize you. And throughout the course of the season, this is how they utilize you. But that doesn't mean that I can't go do something else as well this is just what you see me doing here with this coach in this system but i can go and do anything you need me to do because i'm that much of an athlete and he is a supreme athlete like he didn't run he didn't blaze four three one forty four four is fast for those who didn't know four four-4 is fast, you know, and he can jump. He played basketball.

He knows how to jump, box out, rebound, all of that stuff. It all translates to his game on the football field. And these analysts, when they're looking at stuff, they just want to pick apart everything, especially in the combine phase. They want to pick apart everything when you have your Henry Ruggs and your CeeDee Lambs and all of these guys blazing 40s. And then he just, oh, he just ran a 4-4. Oh, that's pretty good for him.

Like, no, that's fast. What are you talking about? Some of the best receivers that run 4-5s at the combine. So, no, man, this dude is good. He's going to be good for a long time. They just got to make sure that they have him in the right system, the quarterback that's throwing the ball everything has to be clicking that's the hard part about a wide receiver everything has to be clicking for you to get the ball you're kind of predicated on everybody else and that is something that we have discussed on this

podcast about getting justin jefferson the ball more and i wonder what you think of the contrasting style. So I want to get to how Diggs is playing. But the Bill style with Stephon Diggs is exactly what he wants, which is to throw Stephon Diggs the ball all the time. And, hey, good idea. I mean, right? Like this is what we were seeing in Minnesota last year. Like if Stephon Diggs says throw me the ball more,

I think you should probably just do that because it is a tried and true model with great wide receivers that if they're great, they're going to make plays. And he's done that. With Jefferson, he's a rookie. So he's not going to say, hey, what the hell's going on, guys? I should have more than whatever number of targets. I shouldn't have five targets in a game that we lose. Like you shouldn't let the other team take me out of the game to even any

extent. And with his ability to run after catch, I feel like there's some opportunities to take carries off of Delvin cook. And in a way, put them on Justin Jefferson with screen passes, whatever else. I wonder what you think of the philosophy difference though, between a team that wants to throw a good number of short passes to someone like Diggs versus the guy who is just going down the field looking for 20, 30, 40-yard plays all the time, which is kind of what they've done with Jefferson.

I think it's all based on the quarterback. And it's not even the arm strength of the quarterback. If you're playing quarterback in the NFL, you have enough arm strength to be able to get the ball down the field somewhat. I think that the systems, like you look at the Patriots for a long time, they weren't a team that threw the ball down the field a ton of times. You know, I mean, when they had Randy Moss, yes, they did it because they had Randy Moss.

But for the most part, they were dink and dunk. And Tom Brady was just picking you apart, you know, and then boom, it was going down the field with one big play. And I think that's based on your coach, the offensive coordinator, just understanding the players, the talent that he has. The biggest thing is get the ball into the hands of the playmakers and let them make plays. Whether that's down the field, whether that's wide receiver screens,

it doesn't matter. Just get the ball into their hands and let them make plays. Don't try to put everything on the quarterback's shoulders, especially in Minnesota when you have – I mean, right now you have a guy who you can really throw the ball down the field to. But I'm telling you, teams are going to start to key in on that. And they're not going to be able to continuously throw the ball down the field all the time to him.

So he's going to get those wide receiver screens. He's going to have to make something out of nothing a lot more than he has to do right now. When you look at Stephon Diggs, yeah, he's been in the league for a little while. I think when he was there, you know, Stephon, wide receivers want the ball. They want to get into a rhythm. Like I said, everything else has to click

for a wide receiver to get the ball. You got a pretty good receiver on the other side in Adam Thielen. Who's going to get the ball? I mean, the dude is a fantasy stud. He's getting like 10 targets a game. And so that's going to get the ball? I mean, the dude is a fantasy stud. You know what I mean? Like, he's getting like 10 targets a game. And so that's going to take away from your targets. And it's not to say that he's upset with Thielen or anything like that. He's just like, yo, I want mine too.

You know? And so he finds himself wanting to be out of that system. Go ahead and do your thing. I'm going to go over here and do my thing. Now you've got a young rookie wide receiver. Hopefully Justin Jefferson can stay humble. But you've got to imagine, by the time you get to year three four five with Justin Jefferson Adam Thielen's going to be on the downside and you're going to be getting Justin Jefferson a lot more targets

you know and so right now it's just working out because you have Jefferson you have Thielen you have Cook it's kind of like a very good trio of stars that you have there. Yeah, and I think that the downfield option can work, and it has worked for Gary Kubiak for a long time, where you're running play actions and you're running bootlegs and things like that. But as you mentioned, there have been times, whether it was Diggs or Jefferson, where opposing teams start to put pressure on the quarterback

on those bootlegs, even Green Bay sending their edge rusher upfield rather than chasing the run down the line of scrimmage, and then what? And it's kind of like when their main thing is taken away, then they have some trouble adjusting, and I guess I would think that they're going to have to eventually realize that this guy can make a 40-yard play out of nothing, so you should probably give him the opportunity to do that. With the Diggs thing, you know, I was watching the Bills game against Arizona, Donald, and I thought, they really protect this quarterback, don't they?

Like, they really protect Josh Allen with a lot of easy stuff, a lot of short underneath stuff. Where it really stuck out to me was it was, I think, third and seven, third and eight, and he throws a bubble screen to Diggs. And they were basically saying, like, we're not putting this on our quarterback. We're going to put this on our wide receiver to try and make a play. And I think that Diggs is basically the perfect security blanket for a quarterback who needs one.

Like when Case Keenum was here, it was perfect. Throw it to Stephon Diggs, he'll make you right, even if it's not a perfect throw. And it seems like it's been the same thing in Buffalo with Josh Allen. I think that unless you have the elite of the elite, the Brady when he was in his prime, the Drew Brees, the Pat Mahomes, Russell Wilson, you know, unless you have these types of guys that are playing quarterback,

you got to take that pressure off of them, you know, so you get the ball into the hands of the playmakers. Like, get the ball. A lot of these guys that are playing receiver in the league play, like, running back in high school and all of that stuff. They know how to catch. They know how to run. And so just get the ball into their hands as fast as possible.

Get your linemen out there in front of them and let those guys run around and make the plays instead of trying to have your quarterback drop back and read and read and read. Oh, boom, I got somebody open. And see, Josh Allen, I mean, when you look back to him in college, he wasn't that type of guy. I mean, he wasn't the guy who can sit back there,

go through his entire progression, and find the open man like the elite of the elite. So I think they are protecting him, and they're protecting that offense and trying not to just put everything on his shoulders and sitting back there in the pocket and read everything and make sure that he goes through his progression and hits the right man because he has shown to not do that. He has.

I mean, he's shown to make some very bad decisions with the ball, and so I think they're now just trying to keep him from doing that. And it's not a knock on him, but he's still a young quarterback in the league. He still has a lot to learn. And so he's had some accuracy issues, and he's not the guy who is still has a lot to learn. And so he's had some accuracy issues, and he's not the guy who is seeing why a receiver is open. He's the guy who throws to a guy when

he's open. And so they're doing what they have to do to protect themselves and him. 2020 has already reshaped how we work, and it's almost over. Businesses across the globe are challenged to be their most efficient, which means every hire is critical.

Indeed is here to help. Indeed is the number one job site in the world with more total visits than any other job site, according to Comscore. Indeed helps you find quality candidates quickly so you can focus on hiring the person you need to keep business going. Unlike other sites, Indeed gives you full control and payment flexibility over your hiring. You only pay for what you need. You can pause your account at any time, and there are no long-term contracts. And now, Indeed's new way of matching you with candidates instantly delivers a short list of quality candidates whose resumes on Indeed match your job criteria, and that you can contact the moment you sponsor a job,

making Indeed the only job site that can move as fast as you do. 73% of online job seekers in the U.S. Right now, Indeed is offering our listeners a free $75 credit to boost your job post, which means more quality candidates will see it fast. Try Indeed out with a free $75 credit at Indeed.com slash BlueWire. This is the best offer you're going to find anywhere. Go right now to Indeed.com slash BlueWire. Offer valid through December 31st. Terms and conditions apply. Football is in full swing and you might not be at a game

this year, but you can still be in on the action at BetOnline. BetOnline is going the extra mile to make sure you can get in on every possible chance to win this season. From game spreads and totals to team and player and coaching props, BetOnline gives you more options to wager than anywhere else. Head to BetOnline today and take advantage of all the great sign-up bonuses. Don't forget to use promo code BLUE at betonline.ag that's blue wire all one word bet online your online sportsbook experts yeah and uh i will ask you something more about that in a second because i'm very curious if you

think that they ultimately pay josh allen a huge contract actually why don't you just answer that now because that's a good question. Do you think they do? I think they do. And I think it's going to be a mistake. Like, even though he's played really well this year, I'm just seeing Carson Wentz all over again. It's like you have Diggs to help you out.

You have a good offensive system that's really built to protect you. And then you have to make a big-time throw here or there, and you can win. But I think that there's a lot of quarterbacks in the year 2020 that can also win with the same setup. Like if Andy Dalton is the Bills quarterback, if Cam Newton is the Bills quarterback, you're probably winning a good amount of games. So I don't know about spending all that cap space on a guy

who has so many flaws you have to work around, but I can tell from my Twitter he's really popular now that he's playing well and that's going to have ownership being like we got to keep him they're playing well the head coach and the GM Brandon Bean they know what they're looking at when they see him like when they know the mistakes it shows up when I'm watching him on film or when he makes a mistake it's like boom that's what you saw coming out of college and it's the same mistake but the to the basic fan they don't understand really what they're looking at all I see is a guy who he makes plays with his legs he hypes the crowd up he hypes his team up you have the backing of the team and then you'll see him make a big throw but then all of a sudden you'll see him make just like what. But then all of a sudden you'll see him make just like, what, where was he throwing that ball to?

You know, I mean, he missed John Brown earlier, like the first game of the year. He was, when I mean wide open, I mean wide open. And he threw this ball probably five, 10 feet over his head. And it was like, yo, what was he just throwing? And so ultimately, do they pay him? Yes, they will pay him. He is very much well-liked up there, as you've seen.

I mean, they just raised $700,000 in honor of his grandmother and all that stuff. I mean, they love him up there in Buffalo. I mean, they love him. The fans are like, yo, this is our franchise quarterback. But to someone who really watches film and knows what they're watching, you can see, and hopefully it doesn't end up bad for them, but you can see the makings of, yes, Carson wins,

or any of the rest of these quarterbacks that have gotten paid and then gone on to do nothing else after they got paid. You know, it's just you never really seen that growth and that maturity to the next level. I look at Josh Allen, I don't even see Pat Mahomes in Josh Allen. Pat Mahomes to me is a guy who, I don't even see Pat Mahomes in Josh Allen. Pat Mahomes to me is a guy who, I mean, you see him

just make crazy plays on a consistent basis, week in, week out. You don't see him like this week, he's great. Then next week it's a horrible decision with a ball, loses the team the game. I mean, you see him kind of elevating his game to the next level.

When you look at Russell Wilson, you've always seen him get better. I don't necessarily see Josh Allen getting better week in and week out. You'll see him have a very good week, and the next week it's like, oh, my gosh, this guy is just, you know. But, yeah, they're going to pay him because they love him up in Buffalo. It's just, you know, but yeah, they're going to pay him because they love him up in Buffalo. It's just what it is. And he's a guy who, you know, I mean, they're winning with him as a quarterback. So, of course, they're going to pay him.

Yeah, and that's something that, interestingly, the Vikings organization didn't do with Case Keenum. They did not pay him because they looked at his body of work in the tape and said, you know what? He's probably not going to be able to continue doing this and win 13 games a year because it was kind of a high variance type of year. And the thing with someone like Josh Allen is that those negative plays never go away. Like the high ones for everyone except for Wilson and Mahomes and Rodgers, the high ones kind of come and go. But the negative plays, this is maybe a Matt Stafford problem. It's like Stafford is a good quarterback, but he always has sacks.

He always has bad picks. He throws a screen pass to J.J. Watt for a touchdown and things like that. And I think that that's always hurt the Lions because Stafford always has these negative plays. Now, I remember when the Bills traded for Stephon Diggs, I sent you a message and I said, I think as a receiver, you're going to enjoy watching this because, because the potential for him in terms of statistically speaking, which is what everyone looks at first was higher from

what I was watching up close and personal than what his numbers suggested. So give me your wide receiver trained eye take, as you have mentioned several times about you having the trained eye watching the tape. So tell me. Stephon Diggs. First of all, that trade and then picking up Justin Jefferson, I mean, it's like I think it's going to work out beautifully for both teams. You can't really say that one team lost anything in making that move, you know,

because they went and they drafted Jefferson. And hopefully for years to come, he is the true number one wide receiver that they're going to want him to be, especially when Thielen is out of there, which is going to come in the next couple of years, you know. So I think that trade is going to go down in history as like, yo, that was a great trade. When you look at Stephon Diggs, I mean, he is fun to watch. He makes plays down the field.

You can throw screens to him. He makes plays in that way. He catches the ball in all types of crazy angles, all of that stuff. I mean, that dude is good. He is fun to watch. My son loves to watch him play. I hope that they can get like a big body receiver on the other side of him at some point to really take some pressure off of him.

And I hope that Josh Allen doesn't continue to stare him down because it's going to get him hurt at some point because of how much he actually stares at him and trying to get him the ball. You know, you can just see him like just waiting, waiting, come open, come open, come open so I can throw it to you. That ends up getting wide receivers hurt. But I think ultimately, man, it's fun to watch Stephon Diggs play. And this is going back to these analysts and all these guys that get paid

a whole lot of money to analyze these guys coming out of college. I mean, you look at him now, and obviously he's developed into what he is now. He might not have been that good coming out of college, but, yo, you can't tell me he couldn't have went higher into that. And that's where he's like, y'all get paid a whole lot of money to be wrong all the time. Yeah, you are right about that. I did an entire piece about the 2015 draft that

digs was in and just you know what they missed uh about him and if you look at what he did with the ball in his hands at maryland he was great except for yeah they didn't have good quarterback play which is going to impact what uh you know happens with the receiver and his numbers and so forth right right so uh before i let you go, Donald, because it's been fun, I mean, you said that you feel like this is going to be an even trade, Diggs for Jefferson. I agree with you. The Vikings get ahead a little by the fact that Jefferson is on a rookie

contract. That's good for them. Where it is not good for them is that they had to trade Stephon Diggs because he was miserable playing for them. And that's where you lose because you could have had Stephon Diggs and Justin Jefferson had Stephon Diggs been happy with playing with your organization. And I guess so as we look at it like long term, the Vikings could win this trade as they go forward. They could look at it as, you know, great, great job us. We just traded out one great receiver for the other. But I kind of hesitate a little to say that because I think that it's a skill to have players be happy with playing with your organization.

So I'm not sure I want to give them the huge or I want to say it's exactly even. Well, when you think about the trade that they had to make with Stephon Diggs, he wasn't happy in that system. And there are a couple of different reasons why. First of all, as a receiver or as a player in this league, you want to be the best. When I want to be the best, I want the ball. In order for me to be the best, I've got to score.

It's just what it is. When you have Thielen on the other side, he's going to get his targets. It's just what it is. So Diggs he's going to get his targets. It's just what it is. So Diggs is not going to get the targets that he wants. That's the first part of it. The second part of it, or maybe that's the second part of it. The first part of it is you guys have a quarterback up there. He's not the elite of the elite who can spread the ball around to everybody.

It's just the nature of it. Josh Allen is not either. Josh Allen actually is just forcing the ball to dig, and so he's happy. But when you have the elite quarterbacks that can just get everybody the ball, whoever is open, you're going to get the ball, the Drew Breeses, the Russell Wilsons. I mean, you can't really name too many wide receivers that are like, yo, I don't like playing there in Seattle, because he can spread the ball to everybody. And so I think ultimately, they need to get a top-tier quarterback in Minnesota

to keep Justin Jefferson and everybody else happy because right now they have to truly lean on the running game, which opens it up for everybody else because they don't have the elite quarterback that can get everybody the ball. And until they have that, that's what will keep everybody happy. And you won't be able to keep players when you don't have that elite quarterback. And just at that moment, Donald Jones' phone cut out. So that was pretty much the interview anyway,

and I appreciate if you've made it this far, all of you taking the time to listen. Make sure, by the way, you go check out Making of a Miracle, my book about the 2017 Vikings season. And by the way, if you want to give a gift to someone, gifting a subscription to Purple Insider is a pretty good idea. Purpleinsider.substack.com. And we'll catch you next time after Vikings and Panthers.