Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Which teams could chase Brian Flores? JJ McCarthy could play vs. GB? (Part 1)

Episode Date: December 30, 2025

Matthew Coller talks about two big headlines from Kevin O'Connell on Monday. 1 -- JJ McCarthy may be able to play 2 -- KOC has talked with Flores about staying despite his contract being up. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here. We're live again with some comments today from Kevin O'Connell regarding the future of Brian Flores and whether there is a chance that J.J. McCarthy could start this week. So we will get into all that. I've made a list of teams that could be interested in Brian Flores in any capacity. so I will break that down and then here's my question to you guys and this is a wide open show the next hour totally yours and then Brian Murphy and Mani Hill come on which of course

will still take questions comments thoughts and so forth is do you feel like you need to see J.J. McCarthy one more time this year against the Packers team that is not likely to play many of its starters, whichever ones they have left. I mean, that team is completely banged up at one point. They're playing, I don't know what it was, fifth string corner or something the other night. But either way, they're not going to play their top players. They're going to try to get as healthy as they can.

I would assume for the postseason as they are locked into the seven seed. And now the game has no juice from that capacity. but if J.J. McCarthy played, it would have a little more energy going into it. Do you feel like you need to see J.J. McCarthy? Let me know yes or no. Like, are you good? Do you feel like you understand who he is right now, where he needs to go, what the Vikings should do? Or could he change your mind? Do you need one more game of J.J. McCarthy? So we'll get into what Kevin O'Connell had to say there. I have made a list of teams that could be interested in Brian Flores. and I'll get to that in just a second,

but wanted to bring you what Kevin O'Connell had to say about Flores' status. I was there today and had a chance to ask O'Connell if he has discussed Brian Flores' future with the Vikings' defensive coordinator and about his importance to this franchise and coming back. Kevin, there were a couple reports over the weekend about Brian Flores and his future.

I guess how would you describe the importance of having him here going forward? and just have you guys had discussions about his future? Yeah, we have, and then goes back a long ways before those reports. But, yeah, we've had recent dialogue, very good dialogue. Flo knows I love him. He was the guy three years ago that I identified to bring in here and the growth and just our relationship and what he's meant to me personally is so massive. And that's not even taken into account.

what he's been able to do defensively for our team and, you know, been such a huge part of helping us daily minute-to-minute kind of weather the different storms we had to navigate this year. And, yeah, things are in a really positive place right now. You know, I absolutely want Brian Flores to be the defensive coordinator of the Minnesota Vikings as long as we can have them. You know, and I would say this. You know, I do know that, you know, he is,

He's demonstrated a lot of things that have, you know, no having gone through the process of the head coach hiring process before myself, you know, I imagine he's going to be a pretty popular guy there as well. And rightly so, he's earned everything. And that doesn't take away from the route we want to go to make sure he's our defensive coordinator here for the foreseeable future. So they're a very definitive statement from Kevin O'Connell, a surprising one by any means, considering how good this defense has been and also the way that

it has come together with the players around Brian Flores. And, you know, I've always taken the most value in the comments of people who don't have anything to gain by making comments. So put it that way. And I saw Stefan Gilmore not too long ago tweet something about, you know, how badly the Vikings need to keep Brian Flores. And then I saw the other night, Anthony Barr, tweeted something to the extent of, hey, throw the bag at, you know, Brian Flores, give him whatever he needs in order to keep him here. So Anthony Barr, Stefan Gilmore, again, those guys have nothing to gain by saying that, but they played for Brian Flores.

And they also have much more knowledge of NFL defense than all of us put together with those two guys. And they understand what goes into making Brian Flores' defense great. And of course, we've all seen it. many, many times here. We can remember the times the Flores defense got beat more often than we can remember, you know, the great performances. They stand out more because it is so rare that teams have taken advantage of this extremely

aggressive, extremely dynamic defense. And a lot of the times that it happened this year, it was mostly because they were playing from behind and they were getting run on or just they didn't have a lot of their key players. And since their players have come back, Ashley Cashman, Harrison Smith, and Andrew Van Ginkle. They have been once again an elite defense. And from Kevin O'Connell's perspective, I mean, he should be chipping in a little bit to the

Brian Flores Fund for this year because when you think about where this team is offensively, I saw Alec Lewis tweeted out a chart of their DVOAs, which is the kind of advanced yardage statistic from FTN fantasy now. but, you know, if you're an OG analytics person, that's a football outsider stat from Aaron Schatz. But if you have seen those numbers, it's pretty clear the Vikings over the last three years have had much better defenses than offenses. Last year, of course, the offense ends up top 10 in scoring. But, you know, 2023, they hang around in the race in part because of their defense. And then this year, an opportunity to get back over 500 because of defensive takeovers in the same.

second half of the season. And even if we look back at some of the games they lost, it's not like they gave up 40 points. It's not like what happened to San Francisco and Chicago the other night. They've only had that game really against the Chargers and to some extent against the Eagles, although, you know, get a touchdown in the red zone. And, you know, you have to bail out your defense from time to time. But it hasn't been perfect. It hasn't been untouchable. But it has been really, really darn good. And there is some variance to blitzing all the time and being as aggressive as they are. But in today's NFL, where if you sit back, I also saw Anthony Barr tweeting about

Dennis Allen playing cover two over and over again and getting picked apart by the San Francisco 49ers, if you sit back and you're not aggressive, then teams will often pick you apart unless you have basically the best front four in the NFL. I think the Vikings is good, but I don't think they have one where they could just sit there and rush and rush and rush four. And we saw that when Ed Donatelle was here, the implications of that if you're not perfect up front or in coverage. So Flores approach, his innovation, his ability to galvanize his players, the endorsements that he gets from his players, the fact that Harrison Smith came back in part because he wanted to play again for Flores. I mean, it's really a no-brainer from the perspective of Kevin O'Connell to want him back.

and I think that when you look at, you know, divvying up kind of the wins over the last couple years, there's been quite a few that the Vikings would not have much of a chance if they did not have Flores' defense. But O'Connell was asked, and the reason this is such a big discussion is because he is a free agent. And we just don't see this that often where a coordinator takes it all the way to the end and says, you know, I'm going to be a free agent. I mean, normally they get fired if they're leaving somewhere. I can't remember too many instances

where someone's contract ran out and that they would be so highly sought after like this. But O'Connell was asked if he thinks there's a chance that Flores could leave and take a lateral move to another defensive coordinator position. Unflow, obviously the head coach situation was an entire one part of it, but do you anticipate any scenario

where he's somebody else's defensive coordinator? Based upon my job, dialogue with him and obviously the enthusiasm and the want to for us to get something done. I don't, but I also know we're inside of days before our season ends and he's obviously, you know, I know he's obviously, you know, I know he enjoys being here. I know him and I, you know, just from our recent dialogue that he feels very similar about me that I, that I do with him. And I know I'm excited. excited about the, when we can, you know, hopefully I can come to this podium and say he's going to be here for.

So there you go. Kevin O'Connell saying he does not expect a lateral move from Brian Flores. So I was looking at every team in the NFL and trying to figure out, okay, okay, who would be interested in him as a head coaching candidate if the league can put the lawsuit thing aside? And, I mean, truly, I know they're petty people and they have their club and, they make the rules, as we have seen plenty of times before, from the NFL owners, but at some point, keeping a coach this good off your team might be a bad idea.

And really, I mean, Pittsburgh was the one that brought him in and decided to kind of break rank to some extent there and keep him in the National Football League. And then the Vikings, obviously, making him the D.C., you know, really gave him this second opportunity. So if they're willing to, if one team is willing to have him as an assistant of some kind, another team is willing to have him as a DC, it's a little bit different when you're the front door. It's also a little bit different when you have this history with a quarterback. It does matter that even though Tua has not turned out to be a great quarterback, that that relationship was not very good because the head coach and quarterback relationship is

really important. But I also think that Tua over the last. couple years has maybe made Flores look a little bit better and also people change, people grow. There are a lot of coaches who second opportunity went better than their first opportunity, even though Flores did win a lot of games with the Miami Dolphins, but being around Kevin O'Connell and seeing how he operates and working with him so closely and watching how O'Connell can build up a locker room the way that he does and the relationships with the players and you know, all that sort of stuff. I think it's useful for Brian Flores. So if you're another team that's having him for an interview, I think that's something

that he would be focusing on. And again, people can learn from their experiences. So I think Flores is a great head coaching candidate, especially when you look at some of the other ones. It's a little bit underwhelming this year, I think. So here's my list. There are quite a few teams that would have a case for hiring Flores as a head coach. So I'll start with the most obvious one is today, Adam Schaefter said that he thinks it's possible that the Pittsburgh Steelers could be without Mike Tomlin next year. Not necessarily getting fired, but he might. If they lose to the Baltimore Ravens, it may not be a fired. It may be a stepping away type of situation, going to do TV for a year, that kind of thing, rather than having him fired because I don't think that their organization wants that.

They love being the organization that has three coaches since the 70s or whatever that number is. But so I don't know if they would do that, but he left the door open for Mike Tomlin maybe not being the coach next year. And you think if they lose next week, that's going to be pretty tough for them to keep going in that same direction and repeating the same results over and over again. And really, even if the Steelers beat the Ravens next week, it's still kind of the same thing over and over for that organization. So if they were to move on from him, I think Brian Flores becomes a potential candidate. He was already in their building. They need a refresh defensively. When they played the Vikings and then other times I've seen them this year, I've been

completely unimpressed by what they're doing defensively. It feels like it hasn't really changed enough to keep up with a lot of the Brian Flores types. And he could get an opportunity there just because they have that organizational familiarity with him. Now, they might look for a quarterback whisperer, but I don't know if that's how that organization does it. Like, best man for the job rather than trying to, as so many teams do, you know, because they went from Cower to Tomlin. So many teams will try to, you know, oh, wait, we just had the Mike Zimmer. So now we're going to hire the Kevin O'Connell, right? Like a lot of teams do it that way.

I don't know if Pittsburgh was or would. So they are at the top of the list if they are to move on from Tomlin or he is to move on. from them. The next one would be quite a shock, and I think, again, it's probably they'd be looking for more of a quarterback whisper type. But the Baltimore Ravens fell into both categories for me as a team that could be interested in Flores as a head coach if they lose next week, if they decide to fire John Harbaugh, which would feel insane because of his record and he's got a Super Bowl. But that relationship with Lamar Jackson, there was reporting on that. Seems like something is missing a little bit there and there's been pressure on him for quite a while.

They haven't been able to win in the playoffs with Lamar Jackson playing like an MVP. And if Jackson feels like, you know, it's time for the coach to go and he wants someone else in there, then I don't know, right? Usually the player has to win out because look at quarterback play around the league. One down year for Lamar Jackson, as they found out before, is not time to bail on him. He just needs to get closer to 100% health. So he could also be someone that their defense has been pretty mediocre with all those weapons that they have to work with. And they've had a lot of injuries too.

Their defensive tackle, who is a star went out early, is that Madabike went out earlier in the season. Like, they've had injuries and stuff, but it's been an unimpressive defense for a team that's usually known as having a lot defensively. So if they were to throw the bag at Flores, maybe he would be interested in going back to the AFC North and having a lot of it comes down to what's your quarterback situation? This is why we talked about it with Dallas is what's your quarterback situation? Are you going to have to drag somebody all the way through the season like Flores did this year? Or can you just do your job and win a heck of a lot of football games? because if Lamar bounces back and the Ravens are really good defensively,

you're talking about a Super Bowl potential type of team. So I had Baltimore on my list if there's a change there or if they want to throw the bag at him as a defensive coordinator. Cleveland is a possibility. And you might say, well, hey, man, you can't take some of these bad jobs. But usually if it's a head coaching job, it's bad. That would be very unusual if it's Pittsburgh and Baltimore. and I'm still not 100% convinced that either one of those teams would do it.

It's usually a team like Cleveland. And if you are Brian and talk about breaking rank, right? Like what owner is crazy enough to trade for and sign the biggest contract for a quarterback ever in history with guaranteed money? Well, that is Jimmy Haslam. So if he is already kind of a rogue owner, he might consider doing something like that where others would not, if they fire Kevin. Evan Stefansky. Atlanta is a possibility. I don't know if Rahim Morris is going to be there for another year.

It's just another disappointing season for them where if Atlanta was even a little above average, they're in the playoffs and they were not. So if they move on, Atlanta seems like a franchise that, you know, I mean, they were bold in signing Kirk Cousins to a $100 million guaranteed contract. Arthur Blank has got to be pretty desperate. I'm thinking along the lines of like who would be motivated to say, forget you other owners. I need my guy. And of course, Dallas comes into play there as well as the main team that's been brought up. I couldn't find too many teams, though, that would be just looking for

a DC. Now, Cincinnati would be, but are they going to open their pockets? Like, that seems really unlikely. They are the cheapest team in the NFL. But, you know, they're a team that would maybe be looking for a defensive coordinator if he wanted to make that lateral move. It's just hard to see them ponying up and making him the highest paid defensive coordinator ever because, you know, they're Cincinnati and they don't tend to want to pay just about anyone. Washington was another team where if it's Dan Quinn, they're going to stick with his defense and his defensive style. If not, though, if they do not stick with Quinn, which would kind of be crazy, right?

They were in the NFC championship, but their team is really melted down the stretch. They could be looking at Brian Flores as well. The Colts, I don't know what they're going to do. do with Shane Steichen after this collapse, but I mean, it would be kind of surprising if they stayed with him after falling apart. I know that they had to go to Philip Rivers, but still, the Tennessee Titans should be on the list of, they need a culture changer. They need some. I mean, think about what Flores took over in Miami and got them to be a consistent playoff contender after taking over a tanking team. The Titans, I don't think their ownership is all that trustworthy either. They

tend to fire people left and right, but if there's somebody that would actually make you look serious as a franchise, then maybe Tennessee would be on that list. And then very, very high would be the Las Vegas Raiders, the familiarity with Tom Brady and the Patriot connection there. I've seen multiple people who were part of the Patriot Way endorsing Brian Flores. I think it was Jason or Devin. I can't remember. I think it was Jason McCordy on Twitter and James White, who was one of running backs. I've seen a lot of people jumping forward from the Patriot world to say, hey, give this guy another opportunity. And with Tom Brady involved with the Raiders and apparently having a fairly big say, they could be interested as well. If they move on from

Pete Carroll, I don't know if Flores would go there to be their D.C. You might rather just be in Minnesota. But if there was a promise of be the D.C. for one year and then get the head coaching job, maybe if there's a handshake agreement there, that it could be a little bit different. So it is far from a lock that Brian Flores remains a Minnesota Viking, though it's clear that they want him back. It's clear what his impact has been. But I don't know the way that this is going to go. It feels like we've come close to reaching critical mass on this of it's downright ridiculous to keep this guy out of a head coaching position. And the only other recent blackballing that I could think of is Colin Kaepernick and Colin Kaepernick,

well, a decent quarterback was not Tom Brady. He wasn't so good that there was no keeping him out of the league. Teams could very reasonably, owners could very reasonably say, not in a, look, they were wrong. They're wrong for blackballing a player no matter what, but, and they paid for that. But the point being that you could say reasonably, we'd rather just draft a quarterback we'd rather just get somebody else and look at his numbers versus theirs and you could say all right well his last season as a starter he won like three games and wasn't that great brian flores if you were making a quarterback comparison and thinking about what it's worth in terms of points or wins or whatever i mean you'd have him as a top 10 quarterback so there's only

so long that they the owners can go on with this until somebody says all right we just need the best coach here and forget about the internal politics with our little group club. So I think there is a good chance of that, but, you know, no guarantees at all. I just couldn't find other than Dallas many possible lateral moves. So the ball, it really is somewhat in Flores' court, whether he wants to return. But I think it comes down to Dallas or Minnesota, which one do you want to be at? Because I can't find many other lateral moves, maybe Baltimore. It's just not that many.

So Dallas or Minnesota, which one do you want? Do you want a project to rebuild and an offense ready made for you? Do you want to return to a place that's been great for you with a defense that you built in your vision and a head coach whose culture you understand and an ownership that is not Jerry Jones, which would be, I think, quite a change from the Wilfs. And then the other part of it is if a head coaching opportunity does come calling, Brian Flores has to take it. He's fought so hard for it to get back and was the,

deserving the last time based on the numbers that his team put up. But when he left Miami, there was enough that was put out there about how things went in Miami and his battles with the ownership and things Ryan Fitzpatrick said about him and Tua, then you could see where teams would have like a hesitation there in interviewing him, et cetera. But now after he's been here and it's gone so well, I don't think so. Let me talk for a second about the other big. headline-ish from today at TCO Performance Center, which is that J.J. McCarthy, according to

Kevin O'Connell, is progressing with his hand fracture and that there has been reduced swelling for J.J. McCarthy, and it remains possible that he could play in the game. Now, normally when McCarthy has had injuries in the recent past, I've said, hey, if he doesn't practice Wednesday, like this is pretty much you know, out. Like he's not going to happen. But in this instance, he's had an entire season with the Vikings now, or eight and a half starts, eight and a half games at least. And I don't know that he would need the entire week to get ready when it's just a hand. If you could be limited in practice and go through some of the stuff and then on game day, your hand feels good enough and there's enough, I don't know, swelling's gone down.

I'm not sure how a hand fracture works. One of you doctors. in the comments is going to have to tell me. But if it is enough reduced pain to throw, then you could be a guy, like it doesn't practice all week and then goes in place. That seems possible. And Kevin O'Connell did say that he thinks it's important to get one more game for J.J. McCarthy, which circles back to my question there to you guys for the comments, which I'll get to in just a moment, which is, is it important to you that J.J. McCarthy plays in this game.

And I want to get you the, also, the Fanduil question of the day, got a quick ad read, and then I'll get to your questions. So to me, I'll answer my own question first is, I don't think it is for me that important that he plays. It's helpful to get more reps in a preseason type environment. And anytime you're dropping back in a real game and guys are playing football out there who are in the NFL, even if they're backups and they're trying and they're game planning and whatever, it's positive for somebody like J.J. McCarthy.

I thought that he should have played more preseason games, even if there was the risk of injury, because any time you're suited up, the helmet on, you're looking at defenses, you're making throws into windows, you're getting reps, that's progress. That's been the frustrating part of the injuries is the lack of progress. So if he can do it, then that's good. But what I will not do is judge the performance,

as part of the bigger picture for next season. The injuries, the numbers, they are what they are. Those to me cannot be altered by a week 18 type of performance because, hey, the Seattle Seahawks once threw a lot of money at Matt Flynn for an end of the year, great showing. Or you saw the other night against this Packers defense, Tyler Huntley, who wasn't even on that football team earlier this year, he went out and played great they couldn't stop him Tyler Huntley who was bouncing around I mean

if that guy has the capability of ripping apart this Green Bay defense when they were trying because of all their injuries and now they're not going to be playing everybody more likely than not then I'm not going to say oh well he threw for 250 and three touchdowns like you know don't go out and get anybody else like that's just that to me is the fool's gold that I talked about weeks ago. And I got another crazy stat on that that I was looking up today that the opposing defenses for the Cowboys, Commanders, and Giants, I believe they gave up 90 touchdowns and created 21 interceptions this year, something like that.

So, you know, the Fool's Gold that we were talking about, that's what it could be. It can trick you that type of Week 18 performance. Remember, there were real people very high on Alexander Hollins once upon a time because he had a good game in the meaningless week 18. So a Fandul question of the day is the 49ers are plus 900 to win the Super Bowl. That is now the fourth best odds. They've shot up. And if they beat Seattle next week, they'll get the 1C, which is absolutely insane.

The Jaguars are plus 1,300 to win the Super Bowl. these are the two teams for me that were the biggest surprises coming into the season. I did not think San Francisco was going to be this good, and I definitely did not think the Jags were going to be this good. I had them improving. You can look it up in my preseason predictions article. I did have them improving by quite a bit, but I did not have them being this good. Who has surprised you the most?

What's the biggest surprise of the year for you? What team? That is the Fandual question of the day. And I got to tell you about our friends at ZipRecruiter, you know, Purple Insider is always growing and changing and looking to take steps forward in in 2026. And I'm lucky to have my great crew of employees. But as a business owner, I'm also well aware of the challenges of trying to find quality people. So if you're hiring for your company, then let me give you advice.

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ZipRecruiter's matching technology works fast to help you find the top tier talent so you don't waste time and money. And you can find out right away how many job seekers are in your area that are qualified for your role. Let ZipRecruiter help you find the best people for all of your roles. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter, get a quality candidate in the first day. See for yourself. Just go to this exclusive website. ZipRecruiter.com slash audio. Again, ziprecruiter.com slash audio, the smartest way to hire. So let me get to your questions and comments. A. P. Carlin says mock draft. It's coming, my friend. It's coming. I think that's a good idea. Probably should get, maybe we'll do that. Maybe we'll get Trapaso on or a draft analyst this

week to preview what we're going to be looking at for the off season here. It's just, it still feels too soon. They've won some games and they've held me off because, hey, when we did our first mock, I think they were drafting like ninth or tenth. And now they're drafting 17th. I would never tell anybody to not win football games as always, but that's a big drop because you won these games. Actually, I would sometimes like how, you know, the Patriots, never mind.

Okay, so Edwins has signed B-Flow at all costs. Johnny, what is the percentage of B-flow leaving? That's a good question because I'm very up in the air about it. I think there is a decent shot that someone comes calling a Cleveland, a Vegas, like one of these desperate teams that just says, all right, we're a joke. We need someone to make us not a joke. We can't go hire some random coordinator, you know, someone who knows Sean McVeigh, which is funny because, you know, O'Connell once 14 last year,

Liam Cohen this year. Like the friends of McVeigh actually does work as a thing. But, you know, we need somebody who's done this before to get our franchise straight. There's quite a few teams that might need that for him as a head coach. And I also think there's the Dallas Cowboys job if they want to hire him as the defensive coordinator is enticing because Philadelphia is still. pretty good, but they're not the same, and Lane Johnson might retire, and then they're definitely not the same, and Saquan has not been as good, and Washington, they need a lot, and the Giants are just

horrific, and you have a lot there that if you just got a decent defense, then you could be a Super Bowl contender if you're Dallas with Dak Prescott, the way he played this year in that offense. I'm not saying they would win it, but I mean, my goodness, put Dak Prescott on the Minnesota Vikings. How many wins do they have? 12? 13? I mean, my goodness. So, not that he could do it that quickly, but I mean, it's enticing. I might

go, I might go dead down the middle. This is such a cop out. I'm sorry, but I I'm just going to do that. I think it's 50-50. I think they really want him back and there's a really good chance that he says, hey, my family's happy here. It's a great organization. All these players love playing

for me and we got something special here. Like keep pounding. but man there's offers you can't resist so Aaron says unless Joe Burrow becomes a Viking we need to roll with McCarthy next year is there no interest in Wentz as a backup second year in the system he should be better a healthier O line will help the QBs for me Carson Wentz is if you're bringing him back you better be dang sure that J.J. McCarthy is your guy because that is no option. Carson Wentz, as we saw, is the type of quarterback who could win you two

games out of four. But if he has to play any more than that, his injury history is there for a reason. You saw it. He tries to make plays when he can't make plays anymore, puts his body at risk. He's had tons of injuries over the years. He hangs on to the football for too long, takes a lot of hits. I think he's a pure backup quarterback. So if they were to bring back Carson Wentz, it would say to me, oh, they're all in. They love what they've seen. They think that he's on the rise. They're good with him as their quarterback. I don't think he's played well enough to justify that. When you look at the final numbers here before week seven, before week 18, which you know, to me is preseason now. If you look at these final numbers, it's just not of the level

that you can win with. Even if you have an elite defense, you can't win with this. You can't win with a guy like here's how a good way to put it i was looking at j j mccarthy's expected points added numbers and you'll hear this all the time epa this epa that and i think it's a little bit um what's what's the what's the right word like like deep in the weeds kind of analytics talk or like i don't know it's esoteric the right way to put like i'm not sure what the word is but it feels like that's where we've got like go a little too far you know dv oa is another one where I feel like it's a little too far, or it's like, okay, like, you have to kind of figure out what this math formula is. It's not points for, points against, although I guess we use quarterback rating, but that's been around forever and everybody knows it from playing Madden.

So anyway, the point is, I'm looking up EPA today, and J.J. McCarthy's expected points added is minus 44 for this year, which out of all the quarterbacks who have thrown at least 200 passes, I believe that is 34th out of 35. and Matthew Stafford's was plus 138. So if you basically the idea is, and this is a very loose interpretation, but it's the basic idea is if Matthew Stafford was here with his performance, as opposed to J.J. McCarthy, you'd score 180 more points, which you could say, well, okay, he's a veteran, he's great, he's a Super Bowl champ, I agree. But if Aaron Rogers was here, the number is like 43. Aaron Rogers has been a replacement level quarterback this year,

and you would have outscored your opponents by, because I think they're minus two in point differential, you would have outscored your opponents by 40-something points and probably been in the playoffs with even average type of play. So that really sort of shows you just how much that performance sinks your team and does not give you a chance to win. So when you play like that overall by the numbers, it's very hard for me to say, bring back Carson Wentz, it'll be fine.

Now, if they were in a position where they were like Cleveland, like Tennessee, if they were in Vegas's spot, like they're just a bad team, and they need to, you know, just stick with one guy and hell or high water. Okay, yeah. But man, look, even if Flores leaves, look at these defensive players. You can put Durante Jones in there if they want to do that, and you've got enough talent on this defense to still be really, really good. So I don't feel like it would be a good idea at all to just kind of leave it up to fate with J.J. McCarthy and risk having this happen again because I was looking up historically, like quarterbacks who were not the number one, two or three pick, because he was not. He was the 10th pick.

So guys who were drafted in the same ballpark somewhere between, say, just past the top five, but not out of the first round. So first rounders passed the top five. And I only found two guys that succeeded after playing like this in their first nine games. And that was Josh Allen, who also ran for eight touchdowns at 600 yards in his first season. So it was a little bit different. And is 6.6 and 250. That one's tough. And the other one is Ryan Tannahill, who is much more comparable to J.J. McCarthy, really good athlete, but was very inexperienced coming out of college.

I mean, and that took a while. Like the dolphins bailed on him and he ended up being good with the Tennessee Titans years later. The other ones were like E.J. Manuel, Kenny Pickett, who I know like he's more gifted than Kenny Pickett and probably a little bit more than E.J. Manuel. But Blaine Gabbert was a very physically gifted guy that, you know, same sort of deal. It showed flashes, just didn't work out. History's not on his side after this many games. So to me, Carson Wentz is below the level of a quarterback that I would go after. I think I need a level up from that.

But he's, I mean, I respect him. He's a good, you know, backup quarterback, but he's just a backup. And he couldn't, he could not save your season, couldn't come in and, and solidify the quarterback play, couldn't win a training camp battle. You need somebody who could do that. A. P. Carlin says, only want to see McCarthy if tuning up his mechanics in real games situations, other than that, doesn't need to play Green Bay. be playing their players. Yeah, I agree with that. Like, that's what I mean about, I want to see

them, but it's not important to me. It's, it's important for him to get reps. It's not important for me to the evaluation because I've got a full season of multiple different injuries and a performance that in terms of your whatever stat you like, QBR rating, adjusted net yards per attempt, success rate, I mean, they all kind of try to gather the same type of stuff. It's, it's at the bottom of the league. I mean, the facts are the facts here. If you play like this offensively, you don't get to the playoffs, no matter how good your defense is, no matter how much of a freak show, your kicker is. And, you know, we could talk about the coaching all we want, but I mean, even if it was Kyle Shanahan, I don't know if you're getting, I mean, I think if it was Kyle

Shanahan, it's better than this, but I don't know how much better, not when the quarterback is turning it over and getting sacked at things like that at that type of rate. So it needs to be better. And they need to be sure that it can be better if they're going to stick with him. But as far as the, like if he comes out and throws for 300, I mean, that just doesn't mean a thing. It's just not the type of action that emulates real football for 2026. So is it good for him? Absolutely. Is it matter to the evaluation at all for me? No, it doesn't. Johnny says, we should see McCarthy because watching Brozmer is painful. Yeah, the door was kind of left open by Kevin O'Connell today for John Wolford or Brett Rippin, which, whew, Sam Darnold's got 13 wins.

It's pretty brutal. It's pretty rough. Brosmer was not supposed to play this year. I will say that. He was not supposed to play. And the way that O'Connell talked about in today sort of sounded like they told him, hey, just just don't throw the ball away. They just take sacks. Unless somebody's wide open, just take a sack because they were having such success on defense. So, you know, he didn't turn the ball over, but he's just not ready to play in the NFL. I've always kind of seen him as a guy who could have a long career as a backup, but he needs to develop like anybody else. But I get where you're coming from there. I think Brosber would play okay against Green Bay. There's a huge difference

between a desperate Lions team that is sending everything they got at you and the backups of the Green Bay Packers. It would actually be good for Max Brosmer. Adrian, the objective of this week's game is to get Jefferson to 1,000 yards 100%. 100%. It's to get Harrison Smith an interception if you can,

but you don't control that one. You control the 1,000 yards. I don't care if they have to call up Brooks Bollinger or Todd Bauman, and have them come in and throw the ball to, I don't care if Carson Wentz has to come in in a sling. He was able to do it, which is another reason to have skepticism about, you know, just bringing in a regular backup again when it comes to JJ is that Carson Wentz still had the biggest games passing. Do you know Carson Wentz has the three biggest passing games of the Minnesota Vikings 2025?

Carson Wentz. Yikes. But, yeah, I don't care who it takes. If Josh Freeman can still sling it, then bring him in. I mean, whoever it takes to get to a thousand yards, I don't care. But that has been a journey. Aaron says one game is not going to make a difference with McCarthy,

but agree with a coach that he needs to be getting experience. Yeah, yeah. Experience is good. It's good to go out there and play football in a game that counts in the standings. but in my experience with these games, which unfortunately is more than I would like, uh, they,

it's not really a football game. I mean, it is, but it's not the same. They all know, like they know that this is not for anything. And especially if the other team is playing their backups. It's not even for a spoiler type of thing like it was in 2018 with,

you know, Kirk and Adam Thielen fighting on the sideline. The bears were enjoying that because that was a spoiler thing. but when they played the Bears in week, what was it, 17 or 18, now I can't remember. Do we have a 17 game schedule yet in 2021? Maybe, I think so. Did we? Must be.

I think we did. Anyway, that final week of Mike Zimmer against the Bears was just a zoo. It was just a circus. It was ridiculous. Ridiculous football. What did Kirk in the second half through like 350 yards or something? It was insane because everyone is, like, ready to go. So it's not a good way to judge someone, but it is, it is football reps.

Sean says, I want to see JJ. He needs to show me that he can play through injury and be smart about avoiding contact. It does get hurt again. Still won't stop me from going after Joe Burrow, though. Well, I don't think his ability to stop himself from getting injured starts this week. I think that's going to be a thing that just takes maturity in playing in the NFL. to be a little bit safer when, you know, you're out there scrambling and to learn to get rid of the football. That was the thing about the Giants game that just made me go, oh, is this getting

better or not? Because when he had the play where he took a sack down by the goal line, he passed up a pretty standard route combination at the goal line and then could have either checked it down or thrown it away and just took a big sack. It's like, that's the what's going to get you hurt, man? And if you're Joe Burrow even, you know, Burrow still gets hurt a bunch because he tries to do stuff like that. But you're not Joe Burrow when you do throw it. So prove he can play through injury. I don't know.

I mean, this is a hand. So, I mean, I guess if it was the Super Bowl, but I, and I'm not a doctor when it comes to this. But it sort of stands to reason that it's, you can't just use some little painkiller on a hand because you need to be throwing the ball. So I don't know if it, I don't know if it works that way. and it's it just it might be counterproductive to try to have him play through an injury in pain and then throw the ball badly and what is what good does that do for anybody so i don't know i mean asking and prove he can play through it i don't know that's pretty tough i think that j j has played through injuries before um played through the ankle uh injury against atlanta and kept

grind i don't want to yeah i don't want to put it like that um and i don't think that it would do a whole lot to prove that he can start avoiding injuries today. That's something that's going to have to be a process for him. Reps is probably the best. Yeah, I mean, case goal says, you know, he needs reps, but against scrubs. Yeah, I mean, it's better than nothing because this is the hard part of being an NFL quarterback is you get these opportunities and he got a half a season. It is a dead half a season, 8.5 games, half a year.

I guess that would be is that a half is that uh eight and a half plus yeah 17 right so he got a he got a half a season I mean anything you can get to get out there and throw real passes because you go into the off season and you're going to be working on mechanics you're going to be throwing routes on air oh great congratulations like you threw routes on air does that really do a lot like I don't know I don't know that it does and then you get a couple of OTAs, you get a couple of mini-camps, and then you're playing again. So it happens really fast. Any opportunity you can get for real work, you should probably try to take advantage of it.

Derek says Flores is better at his job than KOC at his. The difference is obviously that there's a quarterback situation. The one thing about, right, when you're on defense, you don't have a quarterback who dictates so much of your success or failure. I looked this up the other day that Kyle Shanahan, who I think after the other night especially, we would all agree is unbelievable at his job. He's had multiple seasons where they finished worse than 20th offensively. He was with the Cleveland Browns.

I think they were 25th or 27th. Well, why would that be? His quarterback wasn't good. And it happened twice in San Francisco, that they were lower than 20th. why did that happen because Jimmy Garoppolo got hurt and they were playing Nick Mullins for an entire season and that's what happens. Also, I think, you know, it's always, it's ludicrous to me. This is, I've, I've started just shutting off entirely social media when I get a chance to sit down and watch football games like I did this week on a Sunday because I get, I get real excited.

Oh, I get to get to just sit here and watch the games, right? I'm not covering one. This is great. And not that I don't love covering the game. but, you know, you get that rare opportunity to put a dent in the couch. Like, I'm going to do it. And I've just turned off social media because every single game is, see, I told you this quarterback was actually good or bad. It's like every tweet. Who cares what you thought five years ago about whoever?

But Brock Purdy, though, I mean, the guy's just really, really darn good at football. And he's perfect for Kyle Shanahan's offense. And I think we have to put draft stock away probably the minute the guy, actually plays and looks good. It's time to put draft stock away. And I would say that for anybody who plays well. Malik Willis, I got, I mean, look, he can play. You can see it.

But, you know, the point being that he gets Brock Purdy and he's had now multiple phenomenal offenses with Purdy. Jimmy Garoppolo was a good quarterback. He wasn't amazing. And when he got hurt, then it just fell off. But he was good. And he was a perfect fit for that offense. and they go to the Super Bowl, right?

With Kevin O'Connell, what he's dealing with here is Sam Darnold is the quarterback, and they're a top 10 offense, even though they couldn't run the football for anything. And when Kirk is here, they're a good offense. And then when it's Dobbs, Mullins, Hall, JJ, Wentz, Brosmer, maybe Brett Rippin, it's not the same. You are just so locked into that. I will say, though, to Alec Lewis's thing about the DVOA and the difference between, you know, Flores's defense and O'Connell's offense, DVOA does not excuse you from the run game. Like sometimes, I mean, I feel like we've all been kind of critical about it forever.

But, I mean, it's a major factor that, and it's been better this year, but it has not been something that they could dominate with. it's not been something that they're a top 15 team with top 10 team and I think that it starts to show after a while the total impact of not being able to run the football that consistently well and other teams who maybe don't have all the best offensive linemen or maybe don't have all the best running back or you know talent they're able to do it I mean that's something that we've probably just gone past like all right that's just never going be a thing but if there was a year it was going to be this year and it wasn't still so that is a that is a major demerit there uh let's see iconic says uh we've seen how bad mccarthy came out without

practice in preseason he needs all the games he can get fair enough edwin do you think that a veteran quarterback would keep beef flow in minnesota if flores stays you think hitman comes back in 26. Hard to figure Harrison Smith, never been a super predictable guy for me. I thought he was going to retire after 2023. So I wrote a big article sort of using all the data to show and interviews with a couple different players and so forth that it played with him to try to prove, which is something I believe, which is that he should be in the Hall of Fame someday. And that was two years ago. And then last year, as he and I were walking out of Glendale together, and I made a comment to him about it and you know just like hey thanks for everything you know

kind of thing and he came back again so I don't know I've thought he was going to retire for the last two years very possible that he comes back I it has a different feel this year though I will say that that being around Harrison this year has had a different feel than it has in the past like I think I think this is probably it and I don't I don't know if he would come back again for Brian Flores it's so hard. I saw Jim Suhan wrote about this. Like, hey, bring him back, man. He's playing great. And like, hey, I'm not going to disagree. He's playing great.

But it's so hard. It takes so much work to get ready for an NFL season and to be at this level. And especially as you get older and, you know, accumulate more bumps and bruises and everything else. And there's also at some point, you know, a guy might want to live his life. Like he's got

kids and all that sort of stuff. So, you know, I don't know. It's, there's a lot of that goes into it that's beyond just Brian Flores coming back, but that might be a thing. In terms of the veteran quarterback part of that, I mean, I wouldn't count it out. I would not count out that that could be a factor. I mean, if I'm Brian Flores and I'm a free agent, like, wow, everybody wants me and I'm a free agent, this is great. I'm going to ask that question, right?

I'm going to ask, like, do I have to drag you up and down the field again next year or what? like are you going to solve this problem or what because the Dallas Cowboys don't have to solve that problem and you know head coaching if it's a head coaching job you just have to take it no matter who it is you have to take it there's only so many opportunities that you can ever get in a lifetime you got to take those but if there are lateral move chances for I don't know I threw out Baltimore and throughout you know Dallas as something that's been reported I got to hear what the plan is because imagine what this defense would have been if all these guys. I mean, how about even someone like Dallas Turner who had a pretty tough start to the season in part because he's playing that Van Ginkle role,

but also in other part because he's just not getting to rush the passer at all. He gets some opportunities recently to rush the passer and there you go. He starts producing. I mean, Turner is in the top 20 in pass rush production rate by PFF, which is the pressure or it's a hurry, a QB hit or a sack, but it's weighted heavier towards sacks. He was in the top 20 and it hasn't really looked like that because he hasn't gotten that many opportunities, but that's per snap, right? So, you know, Granard, how many, you know, he would have got more sacks.

He would have actually gotten to take down the quarterback. All these guys, they would have gotten more interceptions and all that stuff had they gotten to play ahead. It's very hard to play defense from behind all the time. like they were earlier this season. So if I'm him, I got to, I got to know the plan. Or I got to be sold on like, this is going to be okay with J.J. McCarthy. And if it's not, here's who it's going to be.

Because again, McCarthy has played one half of a season and been injured four different times. I mean, you've got to have somebody else. I think I'd be interesting. I'd be asking that question. That's like if you're, you know, house shopping and you won the lottery, like that show, lottery dream home. It's kind of like that, right? Like you can be picky.

You could say, I don't want a deck like that, because I have a million dollars now. It's kind of like that. You can be as picky as you want. Let's see. Nick says, this is the wrong question. The real question is what teams would want Flores to go to. Yeah, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Or what you mean what teams we would want him to go to?

you know, I wouldn't think that he would go anywhere like in the division or anything. Let's see. Jim says we don't need one more game to evaluate McCarthy. We need complete season, but we need stability at the position. Make a big time trade for a quarterback or go back to the draft. Interested in your ideas, of course. As you guys know, I'm always willing to, and we haven't done this in a little while, but I'm always willing to grade an idea.

So if you've got an idea, I started yesterday during some of the games, games, making a list of every possible name I could think of. And in my head, as I'm looking at him, I'm kind of grading the different ideas. So if you, if you think, when you say make a trade, like, who are we talking about making a trade for other than Burrow? Burrow to me is still like a super long shot. Next year, maybe. But right now, he doesn't have a whole lot of leverage in his contract.

BM says we're getting Aaron Rogers next year. I think Rogers is going to retire. I mean, honestly, I think they're going to lose against Baltimore and then he'll retire. That's my guess. But I don't know, somehow Tomlin always finds his way, you know, into the postseason. But I don't know, they've lost the number of those winning your in-type games. And Rogers just looked like, please don't hit me Miles Garrett yesterday. I saw the kid who does the film watchers on Instagram and Twitter was going absolutely crazy at the tape of Aaron Rogers.

And I did think, if you missed the show yesterday, I brought this up, that Rogers' performance yesterday was to me the reason that if you didn't want Rogers, you were right yesterday. And I think you were right in total because that's a nine-win type of team where Rogers is just looking like he's doing whatever the heck he wants yesterday, just throwing fades down the sideline when he should be running the offense. Seems like he's just kind of doing whatever he wants out there, which would have driven Kevin O'Connell crazy. and at least we found out eight and a half games worth about J.J. McCarthy, if McCarthy had sat on the bench all year long to have Aaron Rogers get you to nine wins, it would not have been worth it. And then go into the playoffs and get trucked by somebody or, you know, lose on the last day of the season. It would not have been worth it.

And I think that's exactly what would have happened. I do not think that they're going to get Rogers next year. I think that Rogers is going to retire. That would be my guess. But he was on my list. Jim, thank you so much for the super. chat, man. Thank you. Really appreciate that. That's a big one. Um, not necessary, but always appreciate it. Thank you. Uh, let's see. To the, uh, Mr. Marr says to the Fandul question of the day,

uh, absolutely need to see J.J. McCarthy play. Well, that was the Fandul question was a little different, but I'll take that. Uh, let's see. Absolutely need to see J.J. McCarthy play, even if it means nothing, he needs to earn his place on the team. But that's the point is that you can't earn your place on the team on Sunday. You just can't. it doesn't it there's no amount of numbers that he could put up that would make me care and it's sad because I'm going to go and I like football and I want to cover the game and I like covering games and I won't get to cover another one until September so hey drink it in it's football uh you know it's your last look at the 2025 team so play your hearts out but

I think everybody wants to see McCarthy get reps and play well and those things but you can't give me a stat line. I mean, five touchdowns at 400 yards, and I'm going to say, eh, the other team's not playing. Like, they're just, what are you going to do? They're not running Jeff Hathley's defense. It's not Michael Parsons out there chasing you around. It's going to be backups for the most part.

I'm assuming that, you know, they're just trying to get healthy. They're just trying to bring everybody in the bus to the stadium and leave with everybody. That's their main goal. So it's very hard for me to say, like, oh, I need to get another. I need to get another look at him. Let's see. Langston says, I don't think anyone in this chat has had a fracture before. Well, you know, Langston, I was thinking about this today, as Kevin O'Connell said,

that it's possible for him to play. I'm like, I don't know, man. I don't know about that. A fracture in your hand doesn't seem like something that's easy to just sort of, okay, the swelling went down, good to go. But, you know, I have never had a fracture in my hand either. so I can't say for sure. Let's see.

Not sure how to say your name here. Starts with Y.A. So I'm going to call you, yeah. Shut down J.J. McCarthy. Don't want him to break a bone. Then no offseason working on his footwork. Yeah, I mean, that's fair. I think that's very fair.

Very fair take is it might be better for him to just get going on the offseason right now because this is such an enormous offseason for J.J. McCarthy. No matter who they bring in, unless it is Joe Burrow, Kyler Murray, I mean, even, this is why I like the Gino Smith idea, and like, don't click off the video because you hate the Gino Smith idea. The reason

I like it is because Gino sets a bar. He's been a starting quarterback, but he's not amazing. But if you have to play him, you could probably win with him here, not in, you know, Las Vegas. But JJ McCarthy should be able to beat him out. That's what I'm looking, that's the needle

I'm looking to thread if I'm the Vikings, is someone who could win me games, if I need them to, and someone who provides very good competition in camp for J.J. McCarthy, but he should beat out. That's like the Anthony Richardson, Daniel Jones thing. Like, Daniel Jones had won what, like three of his last 20 games or something for the Giants? Like, he's a pro quarterback, but if you're a, if you're making progress is Anthony Richardson, you should beat him out. And he didn't. And now, you know, who knows where that goes. let's see pie chart of these guys on the vikings next year malic willis mac jones wence

richardson jones philip rivers i assume you mean daniel jones i'm not sure how to pie chart that one exactly uh maybe the ones that are serious i would say i don't think malic willis has a very good chance of being here because he's going to be too expensive i keep using this stat it blows my mind, Justin Fields got 20 mil. If Justin Fields got 20 mil, then Malik Willis is getting a pretty hefty dollar because Justin Fields has never played good. He's, Justin Fields has never played as good as Malik Willis did the other night.

Not any other, any game that I've watched him. Every time I've watched him, he's gets sacked nine times by DJ Wanam. So I don't know. But Malik Willis to me is too expensive. Mack Jones is definitely a possibility. Carson Wentz is possible if they really like him, Richardson, I could see, but do you want multiple project players that you're trying to teach? And I think it's very possible with Daniel Jones. In fact, I might put Daniel Jones as

the most because if they fire Shane Steichen, remember Jim Ursay passed away, his daughters have taken things over there. They had one of the biggest meltdowns ever in NFL history this year. They could fire him and they, the next regime is probably going to be looking for their guy. They're not going to be looking at, hey, let's resign Daniel Jones. And with his injury, you're probably getting a discount, which, you know, certainly makes you feel a little bit on the nervous side there. Derek says, Lamar can't run anymore. The show is over.

I mean, there's something wrong with him this year. And I don't, I don't think it's a forever thing for Lamar, but this year, no question about it. Adrian with the Raiders and Flores, I think is very, very plausible because of the Tom Brady connection and just the desperation. those are the two things that would have to come into play there. And the Raiders could either fire Carol or they could just work it out that Flores is the D.C. for one year and then the head coach after that.

Let's see. Iconics is the worst place to go and become a head coach is a team that is falling apart in every category. Well, that's what happens, though. Like you very rarely just take over a team that, oh, man, they're awesome. They're great on offense, defense. They got the best kicker, best punter, best return. Like, then someone else has the job already most of the time. Anyway, so the, let me remind you real quick, that Fanduil question of the day was 49ers are plus 900 to win the Super Bowl after the other night.

That's the fourth best odds and the Jaguars are plus 1,300. These are the two teams that surprise me the most of where they are today. What team has been your biggest surprise? I will ask that to Brian Murphy and Mani Hill coming up. up here in just a second. We'll get those guys into the show and begin our roundtable. Just takes me a second to get those guys loaded up. So make sure you answer that fan duel of the day, question of the day.

And we'll get into a conversation here and also continue to take your questions and comments.