Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Which teams have the most unique offenses?

Episode Date: July 10, 2020

How do the Ravens play to Lamar Jackson's strengths? Why do the 49ers stand out? Have defenses figured out the Rams? Was it all Tom Brady in New England?  Read Matthew Coller's written work at PurpleInsider.substack.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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with Drizzly or Instacart, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. Hey everybody, Matthew Collar here. Before we get into the show, we're excited to share an exclusive trailer Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. and the biggest moments that define their careers, all narrated by Brandon Kelly, the host of Blue Wire's Always Cheating podcast. From Messi to Rapinoe and many, many more, each episode will focus on historical plays and the personalities that made the sport great. So stay tuned after the episode and check out Golden Goal, Stories of Soccer Legends, wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, welcome into another episode of Purple Insider.

Matthew Collar here, and along with me, my friend Bobby Peters, who is the author of many books. My favorite is the 2019 San Francisco 49ers Complete Offensive Manual, a book that I can confirm from sources has been read by general manager of the 49ers, John Lynch, since I know Bobby gave that to him at the NFL Combine. Bobby, how are you? I'm good. I'm good, Matthew. How are you doing today? Doing really well, man. So I wanted to bring you on because you've been writing these books, studying offenses since I believe 2017 when you first did the Philadelphia Eagles and you broke down every one of their third down plays. And then you've done a bunch of them since

studying offenses. So I want to look with you at the five most interesting offenses in the NFL and how they relate to the Vikings. So we don't have the Vikings on this list, but we're going to compare everything these five most interesting offenses do to how the Vikings offense operates. So Bobby, where do you want to begin with your five most interesting offenses in the NFL? So as we go through this list, the definition of unique is going to change. So I choose it to change to fit my narrative to kind of pick more of my five favorite offenses. But they're also unique in their own ways.

So I think I'd be remiss if we didn't start at number one with the Baltimore Ravens. What they do with their run game, you know, obviously Greg Roman taking a lot of the stuff he did with Colin Kaepernick in San Francisco and juicing it up on steroids basically with Rick Lamar Jackson last year. I mean, they just run so many different schemes out of so many different personnel groups and formations in their run game. And then with that, too, you think, you know,

more of a heavy personnel team, you know, they use a ton of 22 and 13 personnel. They run a ton of empty. I think they were one of the highest usage rates of empty during the 2019 season. So getting a mobile quarterback like Lamar Jackson in an empty set, obviously you've got five immediate vertical threats lined up on the outside, but you also have his ability to run. I mean, that's got to be an absolute nightmare for a defensive coordinator to game plan.

So they'd be number one on my list. The thing that I think about with Baltimore is the perfect marriage between what a quarterback can do and what an offensive coordinator wants to set him out to do and set him up to do. And that doesn't just mean with the running with Lamar Jackson, because of course he was very successful in design runs, and his ability to run also sets up their running backs to have things pretty easy for them. But also, when you watched him in college coming out from Louisville, it was very clear that if you were going to ask Lamar Jackson to step into a 15-yard out route, that was really not his strength. But if you looked at the way

he threw seam passes and used the middle of the field, he was very accurate in those throws, and from watching him last year, I saw a lot of that, like using play action, using seam throws that are in the middle of the field, getting the ball to someone like Mark Andrews, and then he does have a really good deep touch to be able to throw it down the field as well. And so when you look at his passing grades from PFF from his first year to his second year, first year he's trying to operate an offense that was designed for Joe Flacco that was being switched up on the fly. Second year is being laid out perfectly for him, and then he's the MVP of the NFL. So what about their passing game stands out to you for highlighting Lamar Jackson's strengths as a thrower?

So I haven't done a ton of in-depth X and O analysis on their pass game, but just from stuff that I've seen, you know, watching their games live or, you know, the recorded versions, obviously play action is a big part of what they do. But what they do in the empty formation, creating, getting the ball to guys in space, you know, obviously with Lamar Jackson still being a dangerous runner, they're able to get more guys in one-on-one matchups, and Greg Roman does an outstanding job of creating those matchups. You know, they're very deep at the tight end position, so, you know, they could still be

in 13 personnel and line up in empty, so now they're getting their three tight ends lined up, you know, throughout the empty formation, and they're getting their three tight ends lined up throughout the empty formation, and they're able to create matchups for those guys in space. And that's probably the biggest similarity from Baltimore to the Minnesota Vikings, I think, is that you have this usage of big personnel. So when you look, and one of the other teams on your list is also going to do this quite a bit, but when you look at the percentage of time using extra tight ends, using a fullback, things like that, the Vikings were at the top of the list using Irv

Smith and C.J. Hamm a lot, along with Kyle Rudolph. And that's the same thing for, now Hayden Hurst is in Atlanta now, but they were using Hayden Hurst and Mark Andrews at the same time. They were using a fullback quite a bit. And this is a, it's a fascinating shift because we talked about so much a few years ago, oh, all these NFL teams are going to steal the spread offenses from college and they're going to line up four or five wide receivers all the time and they're going to stand back there and shotgun. And you mentioned using the empty sets, which Baltimore does, but I don't think anybody predicted five years ago, you know what we're going to see more? Number two tight ends for some of these offense. Like the number two

tight end and the fullback are coming back. Yeah, I think the biggest thing with, you know, we talked about creating matchups. And when you, you know, when, you know, defensive coordinator sees three tight ends trotting out of the field, he's going to bring in more linebackers because you're creating more gaps in the run game if you line them up in line. So you're going to get tight ends matched up on sub, on sub package, I'm sorry, not sub package, but you're gonna get them on substitute linebackers, essentially, when you bring that many in. So, you know, you're bound to get a matchup across one of those three tight ends that you like and creating that matchup with a tight end is a lot easier than, you know, bringing it,

bringing down a fourth or fifth receiver and that receiver matching up against, you know, a fourth or fifth DB. It's not, it's not, you're, you have better chances of getting a matchup in your favor with a tight end on the linebacker than a fourth receiver on a fourth DB. Last thing on Baltimore, sustainable, do you think? I mean, with Colin Kaepernick, you mentioned in San Francisco, part of their fall off was just the team deteriorating in its talent from their peak, which happens, you've seen it in Minnesota.

Guys get old and your success goes down, and then you have to rebuild your team again. Lamar Jackson is young. A lot of their players are in great shape. They have a very good offensive line still. I mean, it doesn't seem like it's going anywhere. Yeah, I mean, obviously injuries, no matter how robust the design of an offense is, you know, if your starting quarterback gets hurt or you have key pieces on the offensive line get hurt,

it can go south pretty quickly. But I think the ability to adapt to the different looks they're going to see, because they're going to see, you know, what they did last year is relatively unprecedented. Obviously, you know, we talk about Roman with the 49ers, but just the different things they were doing, they're going to see some different looks in the 2020 season that they didn't see before and how they adapt now that the Leafs had a full offseason to kind

of catch up to some of it, you know, will be interesting. And at the end of the day, you know, their base schemes, the schemes that they hang their hat on, you know, those, for the most part, can hold up against any defensive looks they see. So just their ability to continue to execute those at a high level, you know, if they do that, no matter what different looks they see, you know, they can still keep that success up. It's hard to repeat the success they had in 2019, though. I mean, you know, shattering records, obviously Lamar Jackson, you know, doing still they can still keep that success up it's hard to repeat the success in 2019 though I mean you know shattering records obviously Lamar Jackson you know doing what he did

I mean it's hard to sustain that but I can still see them being a top offense this year for sure the next team on your list did sustain offensive excellence for two years but then started to slip last year in part because of the poor play of Jared Goff and the Los Angeles Rams. And that's my question here for you, Bobby, is was it the league figuring out some things that Sean McVay did? Because years ago, Chip Kelly came into the league with the Eagles with a bunch of ideas, and they worked right away, and it was amazing, and their offense was great. And then defenses watched the Chip Kelly tape and they figured it out he didn't adapt and he was out of the league pretty quickly the Rams still went nine

and seven last year with an offensive line that fell off badly and I think that speaks to how well coached they are with Sean McVay but I wonder I know that the Vikings after getting lit up by the Los Angeles Rams in 2018 made a lot of changes to their defensive rules to specifically handle some of the things they were doing. Plus, they've made, they even mentioned, Adam Zimmer mentioned this this offseason, those jet motions, rocket motions, whatever you want to call them, where a receiver comes behind the quarterback and you don't know whether it's going to be a handoff to the receiver or not. Like that was kind of revolutionary to use it as often as the Rams did, but then now defenses have created more rules for their players to be able to

handle it. So is what, I mean, you could talk about, of course, first why it's on your list, the Rams offense, and why you think it's so unique still. But I also wonder have people figured it out? I think right now, especially during the 2019 season, and obviously this offseason, I think they're in the process of evolving. When Sean McVay first took the job in 2017, they kind of ran that Shanahan system, but what I like to think of is like the bare bones of it. They really featured in their running game, their outside zone scheme

to the weak side, so away from a tight end. And if they would run it to a tight end, they would sift the tight end across. So they're essentially running it to the tackle being the outermost offensive lineman. And that was a huge chunk of their run game. And they would occasionally mix in some crack toss, some duo, and then the occasional jet sweep off of it too for 2017. And then even a good chunk of 2018. Defenses started doing some different stuff,

and especially at the end of 2018, we all remember how the Patriots responded by kind of running what they call a 4-3 tilt front. So they bring the Sam and the Will linebackers up on the ball. It basically creates a six-man front against that look, and obviously that gave the Rams a ton of trouble in the Super Bowl. So I think 2019 was a year of trying to adapt and figure it out. With having unprecedented success in 17 and 18, they didn't have to do a ton of that in the Super Bowl. So I think 2019 was a year of trying to adapt and figure it out. You know, with having unprecedented success in 17 and 18,

they didn't have to do a ton of that in the past. So I think 2019 and obviously going into 2020 now, it'll be interesting to see what changes they've made this offseason and trying to further evolve that as well. And obviously the play action is a huge part of what they do. That stuff, you know, remains consistent. But I think where they can adapt and see how the bigger fruits, you know, kind of get back to where they were before is kind of adapting their run game

and being more multiple with that sort of thing. Now, we talked about using the multiple tight ends and the fullbacks and so forth with the Ravens and how they switch up their personnel all the time. The Rams do not do that. The Rams use one personnel grouping all the time and really one formation all the time, which is very different from the Vikings last year in comparison. The Vikings love to mix up their formations all over the place and mix up their personnel groups a ton. But Kirk Cousins explained this once about playing with McVay and using that one personnel grouping

and how the defense gets the same look for so many different plays. And I remember watching the first time that the Vikings played the Rams when Mike Zimmer kind of owned Sean McVay in 2017. And what really stood out was they would have a handoff, like an outside zone that you're talking about, and then two plays later it would be the exact same look, the exact same motion, everything, except for this time it was a play action. And it seems to me like either or kind of works in the NFL,

that you can mix up your personnel all over the place and your formations or you can do it this way, but McVay took it to the extreme. Yeah, I think that's kind of a defining feature for a lot of the Shanahan, LeFleur, McVay guys, the guys that came from that same tree, is they marry the run game with the pass game. So those concepts, the play action with the run game, across those systems are going to look the same. That's a hallmark of those systems.

But where McVay, like you said, differs is the usage of essentially, you know, those handful of formations just out of 11 personnel. Well, last year, you know, especially when they had a couple of their receivers go down with injury, they needed to use a tight end. They needed to use that H-back, full-back type. And I think the usage of that kind of alleviated some of their issues they had with the run game.

And I think going forward, that's going to be a bigger part of what they do as well. Do you think they bounce back this year, Rams offense? I mean, like you said, you know, they were 9-7 last year. You know, so they were still a good football team. But, you know, the NFL is crazy. I mean, you know, a couple of plays here or there could, you know, you can go from 9-7 to 12-4 real quick. So, you know, yeah, absolutely they can bounce back.

I have no way of predicting some of those outlier things and injuries, but they definitely have the ability to bounce back for sure. Before we get back to the conversation, I want to remind you to go to SodaStick.com to get your original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. Baseball is back, and SodaStick just launched its latest partnership with Hormel Foods and the Tommy Watkins Foundation to pay homage to the Hormel Role of Fame. It debuted in the Metrodome in 1992 and though it's been long retired, you have an opportunity to check out the latest t-shirt called

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It is funny about that Rams team because they're a Jimmy Garoppolo throw and a blown defensive assignment away from winning a game that potentially could have knocked the Vikings entirely out of the playoffs and instead 49ers beat them in what was that Thursday night game or Sunday night game whichever one it was and then opens the door for the Vikings to cruise in and not even play their starters in week 17 so it's amazing how one play can shift how we feel entirely about a team now the 49ers are the next team on your list very similar to the Rams in a lot of ways very similar to the Vikings fact, I think this would be the offense that you would say the Vikings are the most

like. But what is different between Kyle Shanahan, who once worked for Gary Kubiak with the Houston Texans, and Gary Kubiak slash Kevin Stefanski from last year in Minnesota? What's the biggest difference between them? So let's start with similarities first. So they, obviously, they base with the outside zone. They marry the play action with the run game, you know, beautifully. And they love, they love to be in 21 personnel. They love using a fullback, especially on base down. Where they differ is Kyle Shanahan is a much, much more expansive drop back pass game that, that's a,

that's much more robust in my opinion. He has really creative ways to get George Kittle, Deebo Samuel, the ball in space in the drop back pass game, as well as creating just creating, obviously the use of play action carries from the Vikings to San Francisco, but within the drop back game, I think he does a really good job of

creating easy reads for Jimmy Garoppolo. He'll make, he'll create a way to get a guy open as the first read in the progression and get him open right away. And I don't see that a ton with the Vikings and Stefanski and Kubiak from last year. They certainly do that in the play-action game. But when they ran a more traditional old-school drop-back,

the Vikings did, ran a more traditional old school drop back pass game as opposed to what Kyle Shanahan did with the 49ers last year. It seems like Kyle Shanahan has really mastered what defenses want to do to slow them down and then take advantage of them. I mean, you showed me a play a few months ago when we were talking where George Kittle's in the backfield, and it just is a complete mind bleep for the defense. I mean, what does he do that's so different with that?

I mean, we see the linebackers are taken advantage of constantly in the Kubiak offense with the play-action game, where you see linebackers running full speed after Delvin Cook when Delvin Cook doesn't have the football, and we see some misdirection type of stuff from the Vikings. I was looking at Irv Smith for a film piece, and Irv Smith coming behind the formation on a play-action play. It's complete misdirection.

Things like that that I think the Kubiak offense does really well. How does Shanahan kind of take that to the next level? I mean, in all honesty, that aspect of the offenses are very similar. I mean, from week to week, you'll see different variations. Like, yeah, I think it was the regular season matchup between the 49ers and Packers where they called that, you know, their keeper action, you know, where they fake outside zone one way and then boot out the other way. But they tagged George Kittle on a cop route, a corner post route.

And it looked like they checked into that play because the Packers lined up and covered four. So now they're getting Kittle matched up with a safety one-on-one, you know, and essentially what ends up being a man match when he gets down the field. So a one-on-one situation with that safety, and it ended up being a huge play for the 49ers. I don't know if I saw that from the Vikings this year. I might have.

But, you know, just week to week might have, but just week to week, it varies, but their ability to create the misdirection and the marriage of run and pass and the big plays off play action is pretty consistent between the two of them. So what does Shanahan do in the run game that allows them to play whoever they want back there? I think Matthew Collar and Bobby Peters had 500 yards for the 49ers last year. The Vikings relied heavily on Delvin Cook, but even when they had Alexander Madison and Mike Boone, those guys averaged 4.9 yards a carry combined.

What is it that these offenses do with the run game? Or is there something different that Shanahan does with the run game from the Vikings that just makes it so successful regardless of the running back? So in general, the outside zone scheme, obviously it depends on the running back's ability and his vision. He's not trying to run guys over at the point of attack like he would with a power counter scheme. He's more looking for that lane, that cutback lane,

once he sees it sticking his foot in the ground and go. And I think one of the biggest things we're kind of learning, you know, through, you know, sites like Pro Football Focus, you know, running back success is more dependent on offensive line success than anything else. You know, it's, you know, like you said, you and I could rush for, you know, 500 yards. You know, if our offensive line is playing, you know, 5, 10 yards down the10 yards down the field pushing the defensive front back. That's obviously the biggest part of it. One thing that I really enjoyed studying about the 49ers is all the different ways they block their 21 personnel outside zone when they run it to the tight end.

Depending on whether they have what I call a hard edge or a soft edge. If they have a hard edge, meaning that there's a guy lined up outside the tight end, say like a wide-dine technique, you know, they can have a tight end, you know, kind of try to reach drive him and push him out. There's a couple plays, I actually posted one on Twitter last week where they'll use Kyle Juszczyk as the fullback to try to kick him out or seal him and have George Kittle as the tight end climb up to the next level. And there's just, there's a lot of different ways. And then sometimes too, they'll even run that same play that I just talked about with use check,

kicking out or sealing the end and unanalyzed scrimmage, but they'll also use their Z receiver to push crack the first guy in the box. You know, whether it be a strong, you know, usually it's a strong safety. What that allows is the combination blocks to work back. So they don't have to try to reach it as much. They're going to overtake and kind of seal backwards. It kind of looks like a swinging game as opposed to more of the true push scheme outside zone where they're really trying to reach for their play side gap, whether it be a linebacker or a D lineman.

So that creates easier blocks for the offensive line. But all those variations, you wrap it up and they can run it out of the same formation. It looks the exact same to the defense because they're running it in the same direction same footwork for the quarterback typically you know just so that a lot of those variations they can solve issues right like if you like I said they have the hard edge they can do that you know if they have you know fast full linebackers they have other things they can do off it's like from there's no rollback plays but I mean it's just real cool to see what all the different answers they have

for different issues they face from a defense. And, you know, if you're a defensive linebacker studying up because you're playing for the Niners this week, you're looking at the tape and you're like, I can't cheat anything. Like, you just have to play within your means. You can't cheat anything because they're going to take advantage of it if you start doing that. And that's something that Steve Bereline, I talked to him about Gary Kubiak's offense,

and he highlighted that same sort of thing is that Kubiak always keeps an eye on linebackers and safeties for who is cheating certain schemes when they do them early in the game. And he'll take a note of that. And then later in the game, he'll know exactly how to take advantage of it if they've done the same thing and try to take a shot and get an explosive play. Now, the next team on your list might be annoying to everybody because it's the Patriots, and there's an eye roll in here, I have to admit, when it's the Patriots because Tom Brady was the quarterback of the Patriots, and he's really good. So now they've got Cam Newton to go with Josh McDaniels, and that

will be fascinating to see how they adapt. But it's hard to give them too much credit when they have the best quarterback. So tell me why they're on your list. Hey, before we get back to the conversation, I want to remind you that sports are coming back, and so are your chances to bet on your favorite teams and events. There's no better place to start than our exclusive partners, BetOnline. Get in on the action for this week's big UFC fight, or check out odds on NASCAR, Formula One, and the Premier League. Can't wait for your favorite team to come back. BetOnline has future odds on win totals, division winners, and even league championships.

Or check out our daily simulations of Madden NBA 2K to watch and wager on. Visit betonline.ag. Use the promo code BLUEWIRE to receive your new welcome bonus. That's promo code BLUEWIRE. Bet online. You're online wagering experts. So the Patriots are, you know, we're talking about unique offenses. They are in a sense, you know, very unique and most NFL offenses, you know, we just talked about, you talked about the Kyle Heshanian system, they like to tag receivers and concepts to players to make it easier for the receivers to memorize, like F drive, Z post, X shallow, different things like that.

But the Patriots are concept-based. So, for instance, one example that is as old as their system is, they call it ghost tosser, ghost being their and ghost being their, like, their stick concept and tosser being their double slant concept, where, you know, that puts the onus more on the receivers to memorize these things because they're not being directly told, okay, X, you have a shallow here. You know, it makes it easier on the quarterback, though, because now conceptually, you know, he can pick, okay,

I have this on this side, this on that side. I don't need to know who's running the routes because they're going to be in the windows that they are for the concept um so i think that's that's one of the biggest differences you don't see that as often in the nfl um and i think one of the things that makes it unique too that we have that we don't have so much with other offenses and i don't know if this is necessarily an insult to other offenses because they might not have had the chance to but you know having the same quarterback and the same head coach and system in place for as long as they have, you can see how they've evolved over the years.

You can see, you know, certain years, you know, Gronk gets injured, Julian Edelman gets hurt, you know, they adapt on the fly and they're still super successful. I just got done cutting up their 2017 season that, if we don't have football this year, might potentially be a book option their 2017 passing but they that year Gronk was healthy and I believe Julian Edelman was not I don't remember seeing him much in the film so what they did a lot more was isolate Gronk on the outside and really work their system from there like they started with him as the part of the progression they ran a lot more play action, trying to hit the seams,

trying to hit him on little passes, you know. I mean, they killed teams off of, like, a quick power play action fake, and then Gronk will kind of run, like, what I call, like, a pop route. Like, it's not quite like a 10-yard dig. It's not quite like a crossing route, but just kind of he'll leave behind linebackers and drift to the opposite side of the field, which is tons of big plays off that because the linebackers are biting on the power fade.

So that year they focused more on that, whereas, you know, other seasons, I think it was the year, I want to say it was the Super Bowl they played Atlanta and they were in, you know, more true spread sets and more true spread concepts, more like air raid stuff where they're trying to dink and dunk underneath, get their smaller guys in space, underneath option routes. So the ability for them to adapt over the years has made them unique in the sense that they can do anything in their offense. They can be a power running team too.

In 2018, they were a huge power running team. I think they were one of the best running teams in football that year. And they were doing that with a fullback too, with James Devlin. So they can do a lot of different things. Yes, the Vikings remember well when James Devlin scored two touchdowns against them, I think, when they played the Patriots in New England. How is it that they have been so successful for so long throwing to running backs? James White is listed as a running back, but the guy will catch 80 passes sometimes. And they can go down the field with their running backs. They can have screens with their running

backs. It's just, it seems like that even into Brady's older age, they have made life easier on him. He's still brilliant, and last year I thought was better than his traditional statistics might suggest because the team around him really deteriorated, and not having Gronk was a big deal. But even in his later years, 2017-2018, he's getting a lot of throws to his running backs that are getting big yards after catch, and this is something that I think every NFL offense dreams of being able to do is get those easy yards where your quarterback does not have to do a whole lot. So I think the reason for that is twofold.

Number one, we'll start with the way their system is designed. If you look, you know, their playbook has more underneath the option routes for their running backs than any other playbooks that I've seen. They focus on that a ton within their offense, and they make that a focal point of the offense. And then number two, Tom Brady just does a tremendous job of going through his progressions. Even when they're not the first option, he will look downfield, whether that be Gronk on a middle read type route or Julian Edelman on a sail route or something, and then get down to his check downs, essentially. So those are

his ability to do that. You know, he's unique in the sense that not every quarterback has the ability to go through progressions as well as he does. I recall a play that they scored on against the Bears in 2018. It was a game at Soldier Field. It was a touchdown to James White, where he, James White was the fifth read in his progression. He went all the way across, hit James White, and he was wide open.

And the Bears dropped eight in the coverage. So they essentially double teamed the other four receivers and left James White open in the flat. And it was just textbook. I use that example to coach my quarterbacks is, okay, you can see Brady looking here, looking here. Look how his eyes lead his feet. I mean, it's just textbook quarterback play. So I think the two of those things combined, you know, the emphasis on it within the structure of the offense,

and then Tom Brady's ability to focus on it even when it's not the emphasis or why you see that. And then when you, like you mentioned, their ability to create shots down the field, they're unique in the sense that they have this, I remember, I think it was their 2016 season. I saw it a bunch in the playoffs. They ran this double move off of a running back option route.

So he'll come out of the back, he'll kind of stutter like he's running a choice route, and then he'll rail up the numbers with a receiver clearing out the corner and the safety to that side of the field. So they have ways, like you said, they have ways within that to make it look like they're underneath stuff, but then push the ball down the field with those guys too. And I think that's something that the Vikings could do more. I don't know if they will.

If Delvin Cook signs his contract and they go forward with him, is to use him in more ways that take him down the field, because last year he led the league in yards after catch, and that's in part because they threw every pass to him behind the line of scrimmage. I think he has more capabilities to go down the field, so they could kind of borrow some of that. Now, the last one on your list for top five most unique or interesting offenses in the NFL is Tampa Bay. So you've got a lot of Tom Brady influence here in your list. How Bruce Arians responds to bringing in Tom Brady will be fascinating. He did it

extremely well with Carson Palmer. Bruce Arians, I read his book last offseason. Super good if anybody wants to get it. Quarterback Whisperer, really, really interesting stuff. A lot of football-y football, but also great stories that he tells along the way about coaching Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger in their early years. So really good, highly suggest. But I always thought it was interesting that Arians would talk about getting together with his quarterbacks on the day before game or whatever, the last day of practice on a Friday, and going over the third down plays and saying, this is everything I've got. You pick, I've got 15 plays that we can use on third down. I want you to pick 10 or something like that. And he

would always try to just maximize their strengths, but also work to what was comfortable for a quarterback. So I could see things being quite a bit different with Tom Brady. But what do you think makes Arians so different from the other guys that we've mentioned? So I've, so I obviously, I studied the box offense this past season, I wrote a past game index. So I'm pretty fresh with the Arians film, and then also I've been studying some of the older stuff, trying to relate what you said, Carson Palmer to Tom Brady. So a lot of this is pretty fresh for me right now. So I think the uniqueness of his pass game,

you know, guys like Shanahan and McVay, you know, who are like the systems, like even Sean Payton to a lesser extent. Obviously Andy Reid's got a little bit, you know, quite the coaching tree developing on his own. You know, these guys have, you know, coaching trees. We're Brucerians, and not so many teams run what they do offensively. So they're unique in that sense. And, you know, I joke with some other coaches that, you know,

when he's with the Cardinals and then even with the Bucs, you know, probably they run more duo as a larger percent of their run scheme than anything else. You know, it seems like sometimes, you know, when they run the ball it's always duo. So their run game is incredibly simple from that standpoint. And then the concepts they use within their pass game, there's a route in their offense that I've been talking about on Twitter

recently that, you know, with the addition of Brock, I can see them even featuring even more. So imagine a trips formation to one side and Brock lined up to the other side, you know, whether he's an inline tight end or he's slightly flexed out, but he's isolated by himself. He will run, he'll outside release and kind of aim for that corner that's going to be outside of him. And he will either run a 10-yard outcut or like a very skinny post

based on that corner's leverage and I talk about this route in my book but Bruce Arians you know he hasn't had a tight end like Gronk and I don't even know if he ever has had a tight end like Gronk so or you know a number one tight end like that that he can feature you know as the front side on passing concepts a lot and that's kind of the way the main way Bruce Arians gets the ball down the field to his tight ends and I can see that being a huge, huge part of their offense. I mean, teams are going to have to double team grind on that essentially, which makes Tom Brady's life easier to the trip side,

knowing that he's going to have a lot of one-on-ones there so they can run some of their bunch. Tom Brady had a ton of bunch concepts he really liked in New England where as long as there's not that extra, that fourth guy to help out on the bunch stuff, they can really work that stuff well. So without getting too into the nuts and bolts of that, I think just kind of the certain concepts they do to isolate receivers are very unique. And then obviously their run game, they're not much to it,

at least not from the years that I've studied them. So they're definitely unique in that sense. And I personally can't wait to see what they do this year with Tom Brady and Al Croft as well. There's the whole thing with Arians of wanting to be no risk it, no biscuit, throw it deep down the field, have a lot of downfield type of concepts. Is that overplayed when you look at the offense? Last year they have a quarterback with a huge arm who can make big time throws. I'm sure that that'll have to be adapted a little bit with Tom Brady. But

I mean, I'm thinking when I envision Carson Palmer, Arizona Cardinals, I think heaving it, I think letting loose, throwing it deep down the field. And there aren't too many teams that really base their passing games on that. It's a lot of what we were talking about with, you know, check down shorter throws, and then taking those three or four shots per game but Arians it seems at least when he had Carson Palmer and last year with Winston that he really wanted to continue to go deep down the field that's that's his philosophy like you said that's that's very consistent um you know you know obviously with Chris Godwin and Mike Evans as outside receivers,

and this was even true for him when he was in Arizona, you know, a day one install play for him is, you know, what I like to call the middle three concept where you've got a slot receiver who's going to keep it down the middle of the field against cover two and then kind of work like a crossing route, kind of like a dig crossing route against cover three just so he doesn't run into that free safety. But what they're trying to do is if you run single high,

they're trying to isolate their if you run single high, they're trying to isolate their outside receivers on deep go balls. And I actually tweeted something about that this morning. I tweeted a clip of them running it last year. That is his philosophy. That is what they're trying to do offensively. But that kind of leads to a negative of it all. Like we talked about Kyle Shanahan creating easy throws underneath stuff for his quarterback to help him out. Well, you know bruce arians doesn't do that a ton um

you know when compared to the rest of the league because he's because he's so focused on pushing the ball down the field um and you know that at times i can get him into trouble you know not creating easy completions for your quarterback sometimes you just need to do that um but that's one area where he definitely like you said said, is extremely unique. And one thing, too, mentioning that, you know, spreading their tape that he does is they specifically will run what I call a shield-slant concept. Imagine, like, two receivers stacked. Imagine the inside receiver's on the line of scrimmage, the outside one is off the ball.

The inside receiver, and this is the play that the Patriots intercepted the Seahawks at the end of that Super Bowl in the 2015 Super Bowl. So the inside receiver who's on the ball will run inside and try to shield his man and allow the underneath receiver to come under him. And that's Bruce Arians' main response when defense is like the blitz. It's like a sight adjust like hot route type. And they do that a ton.

Well, they actually, I thought it was really, you know, we like to give Matt Patricia a ton of crap, and rightfully so, but I think he game-planned some of this stuff last year really well. He was able to, he knew, especially when Arians got into some of his empty stuff, and then when he put a bunch of guys, like, mugged up on the line of scrimmage and brought pressure that Arians would, you know, they're built in within their concepts was this hot route to site adjust. So he dropped the linebacker in there and picked it off.

It was beautiful. I mean, it was, you know, beautiful defensive execution and game plan. So I thought that was pretty unique. So, and I think from that standpoint, you know, there's teams that use hot and site adjust, but I think theirs are more on the predictable side. So I just found that interesting through studying. And he's been doing it for years, and they've still had good offenses,

but I wonder how Tom Brady's influence on some of that stuff will change. Speaking of how things will change, I mean, there's a lot on your list. You know, how will Greg Roman adapt? How will Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, everyone gunning for him now and trying to copy their concepts, solve their concepts, the Patriots with Cam Newton, Tampa Bay with Tom Brady. A lot to be interested in and to study for someone like yourself and to talk about on this very podcast. You can follow Bobby Peters on Twitter at B underscore Peters 12. Also check out, my favorite is the 49ers Offensive Manual. Probably the easiest one to

grab and learn a lot from is still the Eagles one because it's a little shorter and a little more compact because you focused on third downs. But I suggest getting all of them and you can learn a ton about offensive football in the NFL. Bobby, always great to catch up with you. You are the best at breaking down X's and O's and I hope we can do it again soon, man. Thanks for having me on, Matthew. Always fun. This is Brandon Kelly, the host of Blue Wire's

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