Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Which young QBs are coming for Kirk Cousins?

Episode Date: June 29, 2020

Is Dwayne Haskins the most Cousins-like QB in the NFL? What did Derrik see from him last year that might point toward future success? Is Daniel Jones the quarterback the Giants were hoping for or will he be a mediocre placeholder? Why is Kyler Murray the next great QB in the NFL? And would Derrik take Kirk over the likes of Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen, Sam Darnold and Joe Burrow?  Read Matthew Coller's written work at PurpleInsider.substack.com     Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Soccer stars and the moments that made them. Premiering this summer on Blue Wire. Welcome into another episode of Purple Insider. Joining me on the show, if you listened to the show when it was Purple Daily, you will know him well, Derek Klassen, at QBKLASS on Twitter, one of my favorite Twitter handles. He does the film room and writes in the almanac for Football Outsiders, and I steal his opinions constantly. What is up, Derek?

Not too much, man. How are you? I am doing okay. Really just crossing my fingers. I know, I think I've started every podcast by saying this, just like, come on, football. Come on, everyone, wear your masks. Let me have football here, because I'm getting a little nervous as we go forward toward the season. But other than that, doing okay. And your specialty is, as your Twitter handle indicates, analyzing quarterbacks and quarterback film. And you are among the best at doing that of all of film, Twitter, and the people who write about quarterbacks. And so I was thinking about how this year could really shape the future of how we look at quarterbacks in the NFL

because there are so many who are unproven. And then I was thinking about how Kirk Cousins fits into this. of how we look at quarterbacks in the NFL, because there are so many who are unproven. And then I was thinking about how Kirk Cousins fits into this, that right now, and probably anytime during his career, we might think of him as somewhere between the 10th, 12th, 13th quarterback in the league. Maybe in a bad year, he's a little bit farther down. In a good year, he's farther up. But I wonder where he's going to sit as some of these quarterbacks

who have been drafted and have a lot of potential rise up. So I want to talk about how he compares to a lot of these quarterbacks. But first, I want to ask you about the outlook for Cousins going forward to next season, because there seems to be varying opinions on this. With Stephon Diggs not in the mix, Justin Jefferson in, Herb Smith on the rise, but the weapons are not going to be the same without Stephon Diggs. So how do you think the supporting cast changes what Kirk Cousins can do for the Vikings? You know, I think losing a guy like Diggs is, it's so hard, right? Like there's, he's so, first of all, it makes no sense that he's never made a Pro Bowl or anything

like that. Blows my mind that he's never really gotten accolades for how good he is. But he's obviously a fantastic receiver, and those two kind of had turbulence when they first got together. But I think we saw that iron out, especially last year. And they were really good together last year. And so losing him, I think, is obviously going to hurt. The good thing is I do think a lot of the weapons that they've put around him now are fitting for what he wants to do.

I think Irv Smith as a move tight end is kind of similar to what he had in Jordan Reed and Vernon Davis when he was in Washington. So I think that's a perfect fit. And I think I like Irv Smith coming out of college. And I think he flashed some moments last year. Justin Jefferson is not right away going to be as good as Diggs. And I don't think he's quite the same receiver, but I think Justin Jefferson is like as good a security blanket type of receiver that you're going to be, I think, one of those rock solid guys. And I think Kirk Cousins is the type of quarterback who gets so much value out of a guy like that, right? Because he's going to consistently trust that guy to make the plays that we all know he can make and get open in that 8 to 15 yard area and fit into those tight windows that a guy like Justin

Jefferson is going to be able to get that extra inch of separation in that small area to get open. And so it obviously sucks to lose Diggs, but I think they've actually kind of tooled around him pretty well. And so if those guys can develop at least at like a moderate rate, and, you know, they're not super behind their curve, I think the Vikings are probably going to be just fine. Yeah, I don't look at it as because you lost Diggs that all of a sudden we should

change the expectations for Kirk Cousins because you do have Irv Smith on the rise, and we've talked about it on other episodes of the podcast, but I really saw good things from him when Adam Thielen was out last year that could project forward, and I think they can use him as a downfield threat more often, and if Thielen is healthy for the whole season, you're kind of doing the same thing, using one number one wide receiver as so many Gary Kubiak offenses have in the past now I want to look at some of these quarterbacks who are on the rise or have been drafted recently or unproven and kind of compare them to Kirk Cousins not necessarily is this guy better or worse because we don't know yet but what they could be and

whether they could eventually surpass Kirk Cousins and I wanted to start with Dwayne Haskins because I'm actually really interested in seeing Washington play this year Haskins had some abysmal performances early on and then really showed some signs after that do you see him as someone that has the potential to be better than Cousins when actually he was getting some Kirk Cousins comparisons when he was coming out? Right, that's the thing is I think the Kirk Cousins comparison coming out, I thought it was like pretty close to spot on. I actually think he showed a little bit more aggression or recklessness

or whatever you want to call it as a rookie, and maybe that was just because he was a rookie and because that Washington offense was on a relative level, much less talented than the one he had at Ohio State. So maybe he felt like he needed to force a little bit more, but I think both coming out and from what I saw from him as a rookie, especially like you said, down the stretch, I think he really showed some promising things. I think the 10 to 14 ish range that Cousins has resided in for a while is about where I expect

Haskins to get to. So I don't think Haskins is one of the small handful of young guys that it's going to be like, wow, you know, I expect him to be way better than Cousins in a couple of years. But I expect him to get to about the same range, which I think is plenty good enough to be what you need to consistently get to the playoffs, and that's something that Cousins has done. And, you know, you can say, oh, well, Cousins hasn't won the big one or whatever. But worse quarterbacks than Cousins have. So I think it's plenty reasonable to say that a guy of that caliber can do it. And I think Haskins, maybe not this next year because of

how garbage that offense looks with some of the talent that they have. But I think he has the skill set to kind of to get into that range if they can build a halfway decent roster around him. You know what I like about the Cousins comparison is it's just over the bar of a guy you pay. That he is good enough, like you said, to get you to the playoffs, to win a playoff game, and he proved that last year despite his contract. And you can build a team around him if you give him weapons, you give him the right system. But if you don't do those things, he's not overcoming that.

And he showed that in Washington in 2017 and in Minnesota in 2018, that when things go wrong or the system isn't exactly right, he isn't going to be good enough. And I noticed around draft season that all of a sudden these, well, you know, he could be a Kirk Cousins type quarterback started popping up. So I love him for comparison's sake. So let me ask you a follow-up on Dwayne Haskins. If he does end up better than Kirk Cousins. What happened? I would think the one big thing that like would take Haskins over the bar from what I think he's going to be to what, you know, to what you're saying where he would be the absolute next level is I think his mechanics would have to clean up a lot and in turn his accuracy would get a lot better because I think he was really accurate in my college charting,

but I think part of that was also he had pretty wide open receivers a lot of the time because that Ohio State offense was, one, designed very well and also just had a lot of talent. But two, he went through his reads, I think, phenomenally in college, and he did as a rookie too. Well, not phenomenally as a rookie, but I think he did a pretty good job as a rookie. But the problem is that receiving core was not talented enough to get open enough for it to matter. And so when he was having to fit some of those tighter windows,

I think he struggled to do that consistently. And I think in college he kind of struggled to do that consistently a little bit. It just wasn't as big of an issue. So I think if he could iron out that, like, tight window accuracy and really become like a guy who can consistently layer in fantastic touch on every throw, then I think he could top out Kirk Cousins a little bit. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see because their offense, in my mind, is still two, three three four weapons away Terry

McClory's fantastic but he's on an island by himself there their offensive line losing Trent Williams that's not good for them and so he's gonna need a little while for them to develop him and you look at Kirk Cousins it's interesting that you know Cousins had like four years of development where he was a backup quarterback for the most part and just made his way in. And then late in his 20s, he becomes a full-time starting quarterback. I think way too often we decide a guy is good or bad when a lot of times they could have developed down the road. Now, Kyler Murray, early in his career, I think showed some things that are special. A special playmaking ability with running the ball,

tight window throws. This guy's a major league arm, and he really showed it at times. I also thought that the way that Cliff Kingsbury adapted the offense as they went on worked to what Kyla Murray's NFL strengths are. So I'm not alone in projecting Arizona to be one of those sort of worst-to-first potential teams this year to take a big jump but what does Kyler Murray have to do to fulfill all that potential of being the number one pick who can be the next you know dual threat type of quarterback I mean first off I think you're absolutely right in saying that he's showed a lot of special things as a rookie and honestly I don't think he even has to do anything particularly out of the ordinary in terms of like, so if we just assume that he's going to like develop at a pretty decent rate at all of the things he's already kind of good at, I think that's all he needs to do because he really make that many mistakes. A lot of his mistakes, even as a rookie, weren't really like him throwing interceptions or

like putting the ball in harm's way. It was just maybe him missing some opportunities, which I think, honestly, that is just going to kind of come with time. Because remember, he was only a one-year starter in college, and that rookie year was, or that rookie offense, I mean, it just wasn't very talented. So I could understand why maybe he wouldn't want to trust some of those players but I think he has absolutely everything you could want he was poised his mechanics are phenomenal honestly I want to talk about his mechanics a little bit and not necessarily just his mechanics but like one thing that I look at for quarterbacks especially

young ones is like how quickly they can transition their feet to the next read, like, as they're reading the first thing. So, like, obviously when you take the snap, you're looking at one thing. And then, like, how quickly can you realize, okay, this is screwed. I need to quick hit this backside post. And, like, Murray, there weren't ten quarterbacks in the NFL last year who could do that faster and more efficiently than he could. And, obviously, that's, like, only out of a hundred things a quarterback needs to do. But just seeing him do that and hit like a backside dig or something really quick was like,

oh, if he can already do this, he's going to be able to do everything else. So I think Kyler Murray is absolutely fantastic. And he's, I know we're going to talk about some of the other young quarterbacks, but I think he's the only one for sure I think will be better than Kirk, sooner rather than later. Yeah, I agree. And then the ability to play off schedule, the ability to run with the football. I mean, when we're comparing these guys to Kirk Cousins, he is on a completely different level.

Cousins might be the poorest running quarterback in the league. I've compared Cousins to Drew Bledsoe for people who are of the 90s age who watched Drew Bledsoe stand in one spot. But Bledsoe for people who are of, you know, the 90s age who watched Drew Bledsoe stand in one spot, but Bledsoe got rid of the ball probably a little quicker, and that's the one thing that you never know when a guy comes out of college. I liked Josh Rosen in college. When I saw him play in the NFL, he played against the Vikings in 2018, and he made two or three throws where you just went, whoa, this guy can be a superstar but what you were just saying getting through those reads processing making decisions in college you might have four

seconds to do it especially if you played at Oklahoma but in the NFL you have two and a half seconds to do it and if you take three seconds on average to throw the ball you're the slowest in the NFL like Kirk Cousins is actually but a lot of times that's in part because of the bootlegs and everything else. But like a lot of times that's the thing that we can't project. How quickly will a guy be able to speed himself up? And for Murray to be able to do that in his first year, it projects this guy could be top five to seven quarterbacks in the NFL. I mean, that was, I think,

the most impressive part to me about Kyler Murray's rookie years, because, like, I thought he was a good prospect, but not a fantastic, like, surefire number one overall pick kind of. And I think I was dead wrong. Like, he was just fantastic. And what you were just talking about was, I think, the thing that really sold me for sure, like, okay, I was wrong about him. Because in college, I I mean like at Oklahoma like

you mentioned he had time all the time and he took advantage of that very often where he would just sit back there and just like nobody's touching him for five seconds then he just gets a perfect throw off from a spot where he doesn't even have to move and like you knew and I knew that was never going to really happen in the NFL maybe once once a game. But he was getting that 10 times at Oklahoma. So I was like kind of worried about what his game would look like when every snap is having to be sped up. But I think we especially got to see behind that Arizona line what it looks like when Kyler Murray has to be sped up 20, 25 times a game. And he was, I mean, really as good as you can ask for for a rookie so that was kind of what sold me like oh he's he's going to be you know top eight much sooner than he

than I thought he might be yeah well they called it offensive line university for a reason at Oklahoma because all their guys get drafted uh now another player who's in the exact opposite college situation in the NFC, Daniel Jones, was internet's favorite guy to make fun of for being a high draft pick. Now, my buddy Sage Rosenfels and I watched some tape on this particular draft class and watched Daniel Jones, and Sage liked a lot of the things that he saw, and even coming out when Daniel Jones played against the Vikings, some bad moments for sure. I mean, a couple of bad, I think two interceptions and both of them were like, really, man? But there were also some throws

in there that were surprisingly good for somebody who was really conservative in college. So Daniel Jones mockery online, too much or just right? He isn't. So think uh charles mcdonald uh and mina kimes are talking about this on mina's podcast recently daniel jones is both better than i thought he was going to be coming out of college because i thought he was like a fringe day two day three guy but he's also not as good as i think a lot of people thought he was as a rookie. I think Daniel Jones as a rookie to me was like he showed a lot of stuff that makes him look pretty competent. I think in terms of accuracy, he wasn't great, but he was fine. I think him being as poised as he is in the pocket is obviously a good thing. It bleeds into him being numb sometimes, which is why he fumbled like eight trillion times.

But I think I'd rather have a guy who's numb than just is scared and wants to move and sees ghosts. So I thought that was good. I think if you're asking him to just play like quick game and maybe go like one to two, you know, just reading front side, I think he's really good at that stuff and he won't make mistakes that way. To me, my problem with Jones, both in college and as a rookie is I just there's nothing special where I look at and be like this is why he's going to be a top 10 quarterback because like I said his accuracy is fine but it's not great his arm is like around the NFL threshold like it's not very far over I don't think I don't think he showed anything that was particularly special mentally like you know the stuff I was mentioning with Murray,

where Murray could see something frontside, instantly know it's doomed and hit a backside post. Like, and you wouldn't even understand how it happened so quickly. Jones, he had maybe like a handful of those plays all season. And that just wasn't enough for me to sell him on being some guy who's going to for sure develop into a franchise quarterback. He is very mobile, which I think is also good. But, again, I just don't – there's a lot about his game that suggests he can be fine,

but just not special. Before we get back to the conversation, I want to remind you to go to sodastick.com to get your original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. They just launched their partnership with Michelob Golden Light for the Mick Golden Light Fishing Club merch line. The logo includes a walleye chugging a beer, and they have it on shirts, hoodies, windbreakers, and more. If you haven't seen it yet, you definitely have to check it out.

And also, we're going to hook you up with free shipping for your order. Just use the promo code PURPLEINSIDER for free shipping. That's SodaStick, S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com, original Minnesota sports-inspired goods, code PURPLEINSIDER for free shipping. So he would be below the Kirk meter then in your mind. I would think so because even Kirk isn't special at anything really, but he's closer to good to very good at a lot of things,

whereas I think Jones is more fine to slightly above average at a lot of things. Yeah, no, I think that's a good point. And with Kirk, if the throw is there, especially if he reads it right away and you know he's got it, he's going to make it like 95% of the time it's going to be there, you know, whether, whether it's a deep shot, which he was very good at last year and has been through his career, or if it's a quick out or a quick slant, something like that.

Like he's going to hit it straight on. If, if he's taking his three-step drop hitch throw, boom, he's going to make that play. And I didn't see that type of consistency with Daniel Jones just yet. The one thing that I thought of with Jones is if you build it, maybe there's something more there that can enhance his averageness. Because last year, Sterling Shepard, I think, got hurt in the first game against the Vikings,

or the first quarter of the game against the Vikings. And Evan Ingram was hurt. Odell Beckham was traded. Your offensive line they paid Nate Solder seven gazillion dollars to not be good I mean like it's not a good situation and then even a safety blanket and Saquon Barkley was hurt that's where with rookies why I think it's so difficult to evaluate them because a lot of times you're stepping into a team that is pretty terrible, and that's why they drafted you so high. Yeah, and there's a weird, like, I still think even if he's a if-you-build-it type of quarterback, I think there are, like,

two ways that that can work out in that there's a guy like Kirk who, like, if you build it, Kirk is exactly whatever you build around him. If you build a team that is, you know, an 85 out of 100, your offense will be an 85 out of 100 because Kirk is exactly whatever you have around him. And so if you have 100, well, then the offense is going to be 100. Daniel Jones is the kind of guy who if you build an 85, he's going to have one year where it's a 100 because he just trusts everyone and he'll make these crazy throws. And if he gets a little bit lucky, it's going to really turn out in his

favor because he's gambling a lot and he's trusting guys like Darius Slayton to make these crazy catches. So you're going to have years where it's a 100, but you're going to have years where it's like a 60 because all that gambling and bad luck and him toying around on the fringe of only having like a barely NFL arm goes wrong and that was that's why the Eli Manning comparisons are so funny is because I think Eli kind of fit into that too where you had some years that were like oh my god this actually looks really good because he's trying a lot of these things and you had a handful of years especially towards end, that were just borderline catastrophic because of, you know, some things just wouldn't work out. You can really draw a line with Eli's career.

Yes. Like whatever year it is. And then he just goes from being real good at times and unbelievable at times. I saw PFF did a study of guys when they threw 40 or more passes and how they graded. And Eli Manning was one of the better ones when he had 40 or more passes, which I guess didn't surprise me. Like guys who win a lot usually can do that. And I know that we're not supposed to look at win losses for quarterbacks,

but when Eli was at his best, he's winning a lot of football games. And usually you get in a lot of different situations, and you have to win when you throw 40 passes. You have to win when you're straight drop back and things like that. So I wasn't shocked that he was good at it. I'm not sure Daniel Jones will ever be that type of guy. I was thinking of Andy Dalton in my head when you said, like, he could have that one crazy year, but then for the most part

will probably underachieve with good offensive weapons. That was Andy Dalton with great Cincinnati offenses. Speaking of Cincinnati, the AFC side has a bunch of these guys. It seems like half the teams in the AFC have a quarterback where they're like, trust me, he's going to be great. So I want you to just tell me, and then we can talk about some of them, which of these guys will surpass the Kirk Cousins threshold between Josh Allen, Sam Darnold, Tua, Drew Locke, Joe Burrow, and if you want to throw in Gardner Minshew, you can. I mean, how many of those guys have the potential to clear the Kirk Cousins threshold?

You can use Justin Herbert, too. I just keep forgetting that he exists. Right. I would say the potential to do that, probably all of them except for Allen and Minshew um but the only ones I think I would bet on doing it are like Burrow that might be it to be honest and that's not that's not to say like the the other guys won't do it it's just that Darnold's career to this point has been so turbulent and that Jets team is just like still not very good, and he's still stuck with Gase. And so I think Darnold is probably the next closest to have shown enough NFL stuff that he can pass Kirk at some point.

But I think until we see a better roster around him, particularly with regards to the receiving core, I think it's just going to be even too hard to tell if he can get there. Mayfield's last year was weird. He was kind of in a similar situation, even worse really, with Kitchens just like completely exploding. I think last year Baker Mayfield was an anomaly. And I also think the back end of his rookie year was probably better

than whatever his median or average is going to be. He's probably the like direct closest to being in the Kirk range of, like, 10 to 14 or whatever. But after that, I think I just simply don't trust a lot of those guys. I didn't like Tua as much coming out. I think Drew Locke is extremely fun, but I think a lot of things need to go right for him to be a great player. I already said I don't think Minshew's going to be there.

I feel like there was one that you mentioned that I'm forgetting now. Let's see. Oh, well, Justin Herbert I threw in kind of at the end. Oh, yeah. And if you have Jared Stidham takes, I've never seen the man. I couldn't pick him out of a lineup. You could put ten quarterbacks in front and be like, one of these is Jared Stidham.

I don't know. Right. I don't know. Right. I don't know what he looks like. I thought Stidham was not good at all at Auburn, but I will give him some benefit of the doubt just because Belichick has a fantastic track record overall. So maybe I was wrong, but I thought Stidham was, I think I called him one of the most milk toast quarterback

prospects I've ever seen. And that was probably generous. So I don't think he's going to clear the Kirk Cousins bar either. And Herbert was the other one. I don't think he's going to do it either. He might, but I don't have much faith in that. No, not a big fan of a guy who's one of the least accurate on short and intermediate passes in college football. If you can't complete short passes in the NFL, and that's like 60% of the throws that you're making in the NFL today are under 10 yards, and if you can't execute that, plus the times I saw him, just any time things got hairy, he got really tense, and it's the NFL. It gets like 50 times harder than that in the NFL. Josh Allen is a funny one because I was on another podcast and said something about Stefan Diggs being good at football. Imagine.

And somehow my mentions turned into Buffalo fans saying that Josh Allen is better than Kirk Cousins, which is insane, which is so insane. And so I started running numbers and Josh Allen through his first 29 starts, I ran other players through the first 29 starts has the same quarterback rating as EJ Manuel through his first 29 starts and I was getting in my mentions oh no he's actually like a young Cam Newton no he isn't uh you know my problem Derek is not just the inaccuracy the fact that he fires the ball to the moon when he has to throw it 30 yards, it goes 50 yards. It's that he's slow. It's that he's slow processing. He seems to miss things that are really obvious, just like general average quarterback stuff. And it's not just that, oh, he overthrows and maybe he can correct this or that. I mean,

I think Stephon Diggs is going to see a lot of balls flying over his head, but he has to go so far at quarterback stuff. It's just really hard for me to see. My comparison, tell me if you like this, my comparison for Josh Allen is Vince Young. Like just, he can run and he's entertaining and he might win some games with a great defense, but he's just not going to be consistently good enough at accuracy and processing to ever be a great NFL starter, or even maybe a good one. No, I'm a hundred percent with you. I think like, cause that's the funny thing about Josh Allen last year, right? It's like he was Josh Allen, I think clearly made improvements on his rookie year and statistically was a

lot better, but also statistically, he was still pretty clearly a below average quarterback and people were propping that up as like oh this was josh allen on a good year this is like the this is how he's going to be the savior it's like he still is like two or three degrees away from being at the line of what you would want to pay for a quarterback and i don't know i really don't trust him to get there like you mentioned his processing is just disastrously slow at times um he's the total opposite of Kyler Murray in terms of what I was talking about like snapping your feet to something like he has the clunkiest feet in the entire NFL and it's not just that they're clunky and slow it's that they're almost never

where they need to be to begin with so moving them from an already bad spot and then him being a guy who doesn't know what to do with his feet. So then they just moved to another bad spot. I mean, that's why he's so inaccurate is because his feet are never where they need to be. He never has like this smooth, clean base that he can throw from. And that's been the case. I mean, ever since I can remember watching Josh Allen in 2015 or whatever in college. So I'm absolutely with you.

He has so many problems. I remember watching a lot of him in college to see what it was all about for somebody who had such poor college stats. Like, all right, well, why does everyone love him? And I remember thinking it shouldn't be Lamar Jackson that's talked about as being a receiver. It should be Josh Allen who's talked about as being a tight end. He's like Logan Thomas in a lot of ways, except for he is really exceptional running the football. But if you think there's a ceiling on Lamar Jackson running the football

as a main part of what he does, he's way better at everything quarterback-wise than Josh Allen is. I don't think that you can purely succeed on that. You end up being like Seneca Wallace or something if you're trying to purely succeed on just – tell me you didn't use Seneca Wallace in Madden. Every person ever has used Seneca Wallace in Madden. But, you know, that's kind of what you become is you become a backup.

And I think the Trubisky comparison is not crazy either to Josh Allen. No, I agree with all of that. And, yeah, I mean, Seneca Wallace is fun until you have to play real NFL games in real life, and then it starts becoming a little bit of an issue. And that's the thing with Josh Allen, too, is actually Josh Allen is extremely fun to watch, like, on Sundays on broadcast. It's just when I go back to watch during the film when I'm, like,

actually looking for good quarterback play,'s just just terribly infuriating and uh I think the comparisons to guy like Mitch Trubisky or even another titan like Jake Locker he's kind of similar in that way like just these guys who are very clearly valuable runners but in terms of quarterback stuff they're just so far away from being um up there with you know clearly good guys who like you, Carson Wentz or Matt Ryan or whatever. Like, honestly, I think Carson Wentz should be what the goal for Josh Allen is as a passer, because Wentz can be kind of streaky. He's not the absolutely most accurate guy, but he crosses, like, pretty much every threshold, and he's a fantastic playmaker. But Josh Allen is,

like, pretty far from even that. So that's kind of my problem with him. Before we get back to the conversation, I want to remind you that there is no shortage of action going on right now at our exclusive partners at betonline.ag. Sports are slowly making their way back, and BetOnline is leading the way with the best odds and lines for all UFC, NASCAR, boxing, and soccer matches. And if you need more, they have simulated NFL, NBA, and UFC simulations

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and say he's better than Kirk, he's going to have to have a long way to go. I'm like, you guys are comparing a two-time Pro Bowler, $84 million quarterback who just won a playoff game as opposed to throwing one away with a double digit lead uh versus you know somebody who i'm not even sure is their starter and then of course bills fans were mad but uh with trubisky it was the same thing bears were bears fans were saying the same thing before last year no he's getting better he's getting better well usually we know who a guy is after two full seasons in the NFL is the way it is with a lot of quarterbacks, especially ones who are drafted high.

Last thing for you, it's a game I like to play at the end of podcasts, is asking my guests who they irrationally defend, especially players from childhood. Now, I know that you are not the oldest guy in the world, but quarterbacks specifically, is there a hill that you die on with a specific quarterback that you will love till the end of days? And, you know, I'll give you mine. One of them is, well, I'll give you two. One didn't make it and one is underrated. The one who didn't make it is Todd Collins, who I always thought, man, if someone had just given Todd Collins more of a chance, he ends up having like a 15-year NFL career as a backup and never played until one year in Washington he gets him to the playoffs. I always thought, man, they should have given that guy another chance.

And Jim McMahon is the other one who I will defend as a top-notch quarterback. He was just hurt all the time, and he only played, I think he only started like 70 games his career, and he wins, or whatever it was, 90 games his career, wins 60 or 70 of them, and he doesn't get the credit because the 85 Bears defense does. But Jim McMahon was great. So those are my two that I will irrationally defend. Give me yours. I mean, first I want to hit on McMahon.

I've gone back and watched some Bears games and stuff. Incredibly fun player. So I don't have as much experience on him as you, but I'm totally with you on that one. There is something to it, by the way. There is something to it with guys who aren't big box score stats but play to the exact game situation. So if your defense is great, not turning the ball over.

This is Teddy Bridgewater's thing. People pick on him for short passes and stuff, but look at the turnovers. He's playing with a great defense, not turning the ball over this is teddy bridgewater's thing people pick on him for short passes and stuff but look at the turnovers he's playing with a great defense not turning the ball over and he wins more than he loses and last time i checked that's what you pay for is the guy to win the game so there's there's my irrational mcmahon defense but he is fun i mean the mullet and the visor and the gloves and everything he's great okay. He did have a look. Oh, yeah. The great quarterback aesthetics are a whole other podcast. Exactly. So I'll go with two. One from, like, my childhood-ish.

Like, obviously I didn't know anything back then. But when I was growing up, Jeff Garcia had, like, a very small stint with the Bucs, and they had, like, this really weird playoff year that was just, like, super fun to watch. But, like, even Jeff Garcia's numbers are, like, really good if you actually stack them up, like, if you just, like, chunk out the main years that he was starting. It's, like, not elite, but, like, not very far off, and, like, Jeff Garcia, I think, was just a guy who was really good at scrambling, and he just made games really fun to watch.

And so when I was a kid, like it sounds so weird, but like he's one of the reasons I really like football now is because he was just – I lived in Florida at the time, and so he was just the quarterback for my local team, and they were really fun. Like him and Joey Galloway were just like this kick-ass duo. Great story too. CFL guy, right? Yeah, he's just awesome he's like he had a hall of fame career in the cfl basically or he would have and then not a hall of fame career in the

nfl but like a pretty damn respectable one um and so he's definitely a guy stan the other one that i have like just irrational love for is cam newton and I think anyone who follows me knows that, but like, I honestly think Cam Newton is like, I would put him in the hall of fame and like, he's not going to have the numbers or the accolades for that probably, especially now that he has so many health issues. But like, I think there are like,

you can count on your hand, the amount of talented pass, like talent passers that are as talented as him ever. It's like, it's like it's like Marino Rogers and like that might be it just in terms of pure arm talent and then you add on top like he's the most valuable runner like the NFL has ever seen because he's like his numbers over like I guess 2011 to 2016 or whatever um he's the best short yardage runner ever he's probably one of the most dominant red zone threats the sport has ever seen he set rookie passing records um and scoring

records that like just seemed insane at the time like i don't know cam newton to me i think just got a really really raw end of the deal being on those Carolina teams. And you could start to see it come together in 2018 as, like, the team actually got put together around him. He had Christian McCaffrey. The offensive line was getting better. He was finally getting weapons. Greg Olsen was still pretty good. And then he got hurt.

And it was like right when it finally is starting to come together and he can actually not just have to play this hero ball all the time, it kind of ends, which I thought just sucked to me because I think if you put him on even just like a league average offense for the past whatever, eight years or whatever, I think he puts up Hall of Fame numbers. I thought Cam was just like incredible. I'll never understand why the Bears picked Nick Foles over Cam Newton.

Right? They both had health issues too. So like the health thing doesn't even work. Foles had got hurt all of last year. Great comparison between Cam Newton and Randall Cunningham. And maybe there will be another version of Cam Newton that we see after maybe he sits out a year, even like Randall Cunningham did and comes back and gets an opportunity and he's fully healthy or is a backup and gets his opportunity again and has a longer career,

maybe even more as a pure passer, because the last year where he was healthy, he's completing almost 70% of his passes, which was always the big rip on him. But he was also an offense that asked him to throw the ball down the field a lot. So it really tells you how completion percentage can be, you know, really a product of what type of system you play most of the time.

But a good one, I think. And Randall Cunningham goes under the ballpark too. And you remind me, Jeff Garcia, of Doug Flutie, another CFL all-timer. My parents had the Flutie Flakes and everything else back in his day. So I think there is a Cunningham thing there. And I think Cunningham belongs in the Hall of Fame. Revolutionaries do and people who are great truly rising above the game for short periods of time they did it for

Terrell Davis they did it for Kurt Warner who only had like four all-time great seasons so you know players like Cam Newton and Randall Cunningham probably deserve it too Derek Klassen one of my favorite people in the entire world to talk football with, at QBKLASS, also writes for Football Outsiders and the Football Outsiders Almanac, which people should get, right? Where can they get that? Yeah, you guys can go to footballoutsiders.com, and I think in two weeks or so we'll start having the pre-orders up. And then if you just want the physical copy,

you can go to Amazon too and look up the Football Outsiders Almanac and it'll be up there. That's awesome. Yep. One of the great film analysts, Derek Klassen. So really appreciate you coming on. This was super fun

and I hope we can do it again soon. Yeah, thanks for having me, man. I always love it. Always appreciate it and excited to talk again soon for sure. Sounds good. And thank you all for listening to this episode of Purple Insider.