Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Who would you want the Vikings to play in the playoffs?

Episode Date: December 15, 2021

Matthew Coller and Sam Ekstrom discuss the NFL's handling of COVID issues and how it is currently impacting the Minnesota Vikings with several more players added to the COVID-19 list. Plus Matthew and Sam discuss a tweet from a Pro Football Focus analyst that said NFC teams should be afraid of the Vikings making the playoffs. Who would you rather play if you're the Vikings, the Arizona Cardinals or Green Bay Packers? And does Mike Zimmer handle in-game management situations well? Get your football tickets at TickPick.com/Insider Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Whether you own a bustling hair salon or a hot new bakery, you need business insurance that can keep up with your evolving needs. With flexible coverage options from TD Insurance, you only pay for what you need. TD, ready for you. I want to remind you before we get started, that TickPick is the exclusive ticketing partner of Purple Insider and the Blue Wire Network. TickPick should be your first choice to buy football tickets because they save fans money by never charging service fees ever. Matthew Collar along with Sam Action. We just wrapped up Mike Zimmer's press conference. There's a few things we need to talk about from there.

Also, I put a poll out about whether Vikings fans would want to face Arizona or Green Bay in the playoffs and got some interesting responses from that that I want to discuss. And one of Pro Football Focus's analytics guys says that the opposing NFC team should be rooting for the Vikings to miss the playoffs. So I want to discuss whether we agree with that statement or not. But Sam, COVID, it be lurking everywhere in the NFL, everywhere in sports right now.

The Wild game is shut down. They've got practice squad guys who are on the COVID list. DeeDee Westbrook is on it. Dan Chisna was put on Alexander Madison yesterday, and Madison will not be able to play, I believe, because of his vaccination status. But the other ones, I guess, we'll see. And also the Chicago Bears, Eddie Goldman, who usually eats the Vikings alive, he's on the list as well as several other of their players as well. And I guess the question to start off with is how much this affects the Vikings going forward, but also is the NFL going

to have to stop some games here from happening? I mean, this seems like we are having COVID absolutely everywhere in pro sports right now. Yeah, it's concerning At this point in the season, you hate to see games getting affected by large numbers of absences. I mean, the Rams, you know, now they won the game last night, so clearly it didn't affect them too much. But losing guys day of game, they've got Beckham now on the list, and that could very easily affect them in the Vikings-Rams game next week. And the Vikings at this moment are, I think they are still like okay, but they're teetering, right? Like they're losing pieces of their depth, particularly on offense. They can't afford a lot more. They're getting kind of thin. And you can only imagine this thing spreading, right? Like this is what happened in early November where the Vikings got that first trickle.

And from that point on, it's been steady. It just doesn't go away. And when you see, I think, six in two days for the Vikings, there's no telling what tomorrow brings, right? The next day could be worse. Like we just don't know what's to come. But when there are clumps that probably isn't done there so that is alarming and there are a couple key members of this team obviously that are not vaccinated that we know about that have not had COVID yet that could get COVID and that could

seriously affect the Vikings especially you know if they got it like on a Friday they'd have to miss two games if they were unvaccinated. It could get really messy and it could it could seriously affect the playoff race here in the NFL. And so this is kind of goes back to what we've talked about way back in training camp about the status of certain players and why it's relevant, why it matters and why it was being discussed. But what also comes to mind for me, Sam, is I'm not sure any of these leagues anticipated this going the way that it has. I think that what they thought back in the summer was, okay, if the vaccinated players are vaccinated,

then they shouldn't test positive and they can do whatever they want and it's fine. They can walk around the facility with no masks on and they only have to test once a week and no big deal. But the thing is that sometimes in life stuff changes and the NFL decided that it didn't want to change how it was handling this. And clearly the NBA, the NHL didn't really either. So we're at this point looking around the NFL saying this is worse than it was last year. And last year there was no vaccination. But because players who are unvaccinated can still test positive, you've ended up with more issues to do with this because the NFL did not change the way that it handled this early on. There were players in the Players Association who were

saying, hey, NFL, maybe you should be doing daily testing. Hey, NFL, maybe you should keep those mask mandates on so we don't have spreads that like, look, players are going to test positive. It's out there in the world. And if you spend any time around anybody, it could happen to you. But you need to adapt and change because at one point in the country, the numbers that, you know, we've all become epidemiologists here, but like the numbers were so far down that I think everyone went like, oh, okay, this is about to end and we'll just sort of move on. And then variants and all these other things and so forth have come about. And so we've

continued throughout the season to have these every so often, this player can't play, this player can't play. But now it seems like there's a real increase in this. And again, I'm not a scientist, so I can't tell you exactly why, but I can only tell you that it's clear this is happening. And it seems like the NFL did not really anticipate this to change its rules and change its protocols to get ahead of it. So instead they're behind it of like, oh, now Cleveland and Minnesota and several other teams.

Now you guys have to go into that mode where everyone has to wear masks and gets tested every day, but they did not go into that fast enough. And it feels like this could have been prevented. And now the Minnesota Vikings are looking at four games that they're going for the playoff race here. And very likely Alexander Madison won't be able to play. That could be a key player for them. If Delvin Cook has any setbacks,

they've got to bring in a complete random guy, Wayne Gallman, to play running back. You've got wide receivers out. So now DeeDee Westbrook, who's not a key wide receiver, but he can play in the NFL. Now all of a sudden it's got to be Amir Smith-Marset, who hasn't been able to crack the lineup. These things are affecting results. And I think that you can look at the NFL and say, should you guys have been maybe a little farther ahead of this or what? Yeah, I can't fault you on that. And if you look at sort of the little line chart of national virus numbers, same time last year, went up, it peaked in November. The winter was pretty tough,

November, December. And remember, they were playing games in any day of the week, Tuesdays, Thursdays, Friday, every day of the week had a game last year and they haven't had to do any kind of rescheduling this season. Maybe that needs to be on the table these final few weeks just to ensure the integrity. But I think that the smart teams, like even if they aren't officially in the intensive protocol, wouldn't you want to sort of take that extra step preemptively to be in that spot so you don't have the outbreak and then have to react to it? Because if you're reacting to an outbreak, it's probably too late.

Like you've probably done a lot of the damage that you're going to do. There could be people that it's incubating. It could emerge two, three days later. And that affects, you know, when there's four games left and you're talking about affecting one or two games, that's a gigantic percentage of the remainder of your season. The Vikings are going to be affected here in a critical game against Chicago. And then we'll see about L.A. They could very easily be affected in that game, too. So I think it's probably a huge bummer for like all these players and some of

whom I, you know, and we've heard reports on Twitter, some of them got the vaccine because they believed it would prevent them from having the pain and the inconvenience of all these protocols. Well, like you said, changes happen. And from a competitive standpoint, being in that protocol is going to help you. So whether teams have outbreaks or not, it feels like that needs to be the policy league wide, just to make sure that rosters can stay intact and talented players can actually play on Sunday and enhance the product. Yeah. And there still are very different rules between vaccinated, unvaccinated. So that will matter with who can come back, who can play and all those things. So I guess we just sort of stand on the sidelines and watch and wait and see if there's anything more from the Vikings.

But you are now reaching a significant number of players, which makes you wonder, could more be to come, especially with them testing everybody every day now that they're in the enhanced protocols. So you hold your breath. And if you're Vikings fans hoping for the playoffs, which I know that not everyone is, that there are some people kind of looking at it going, if they miss it, then changes will happen or whatever. But what you don't want is it to be resolved by COVID rather than just losing to the Bears or something, right? I mean, and the elephant in the room is the quarterback. That if you go to Chicago with Kirk Cousins, you feel pretty darn good about your chances to win.

And the same thing goes for week 18 with Cousins because he's played well this season and he's better than what Justin Fields is right now. And that Chicago defense is super, super bad. So you feel like, well, that's a game that you can go win with Cousins. With Sean Mannion, that is a different story. And that's always the thing that we've been sitting here waiting or wondering, like, will this happen since he had the close contact earlier this year in training camp? And this was Mike Zimmer's biggest fear sort of come to life, potentially, if Cousins ends up at any point testing positive

and then having to miss a game or two games, that could be a huge difference maker between they make the playoffs and not. So I'm not saying he's going to get it. That's not what I'm trying to say. I'm just saying that if you're thinking here, okay, you've got this route to the playoffs that you should make it. That's the one thing that lingers over here that you think that's the one guy, almost everybody else you can deal with. If Wayne Goldman had to start over Delvin cook for one game, you could still throw it to Justin

Jefferson and win that football game. If you don't have cousins, it's pretty darn hard to win a game with Sean Mannion, who's barely ever started in his career. So I think today has been kind of a very nerve wracking day for a lot of people. I mean, even guys who played in the game last night in Los Angeles, like Odell Beckham, end up testing positive today. And I know that it hasn't spread during games, but I'm sure that if you were lining up across him the whole night, you're thinking like, wait, is this going to be a problem for me? So it's starting to wreak havoc on sports. It's really unfortunate. It's a giant drag, but that's kind of where we had to start the show. Now to move on, I want to start with the end of Mike Zimmer's press

conference because I have a question for you about Mike Zimmer. So earlier this week or on Sunday, John Harbaugh went for two and down nine. Can we talk about that first? Yeah. The probabilities tell you that's the right move. Everybody's looked at it. It's been studied a hundred times by math people. It's the right move to do. Okay, great. I accept that. The people with the PhDs in math understand the numbers two and nine and other numbers involved in football better than I do. That's not even advanced analytics. It's just a very simple probability issue. Phil Sims goes on TV, freaks out. John Harbaugh explains it in his press conference. Okay. So I asked Mike Zimmer about teams being more aggressive, going for two and things like that. And he talked about how the game situation matters.

And sometimes you go against the numbers because you feel like you have an advantage or you don't have an advantage in a particular situation, which I would agree with. The other thing too is sometimes the analytics say go for it and it's 2% higher than don't go for it. And everyone's like, Oh, what a mistake. It's like, well, look, it was more of a 50 50 shot than it is an obvious you don't go for it. And everyone's like, Oh, what a mistake. He's like, well, look, it was more of a 50, 50 shot than it is an obvious. You should have gone for it or not. I wanted to ask you if you think that Zimmer is like where he ranks among decision makers for

in-game decisions in the NFL. Yeah. This is a tough one because I think we've used Zimmer as a fairly regressive or antiquated decision maker. And I think that's that's borne out, certainly at times. I would also say that he's gotten better, like at the decision making part of it. And I think the problem with Zimmer is, is that he doesn't really have a code. It is more like heart driven. Like, how do I feel about this? And as I've likened it to in the past, it's like the, the person who waffles on 16 at the blackjack table. You just, you can't trust them one game to the next, but Zimmer has shown a propensity rarely on the, on fourth and threes,

even fourth and twos. But I mean, I feel pretty good about him on fourth and a one. If he's at like the 40 yard lot, his own 40 and beyond, I think he's going for it. Now, is he going to do the advanced next level stuff?

Like go for two down nine, go for two down eight, which is kind of another one. Like Kingsbury didn't do it last night. You know, McDermott didn't do it in the Bucs game. Those are a little bit, I think, ahead of his time. But I think he's getting there with some of the other two-point conversion stuff and some of the fourth down stuff.

He's probably right in the middle. Like Edge Sports, which calculates this type of thing and tries to quantify it, they have him about 19th. That to me is almost perfect. I think he's slightly below average, but certainly not the worst. I do want to say though, just on the whole Harbaugh thing, I think there is a very specific one or two out of 10 times where I think it's actually smart to take the one. And here's why. Here's my rationale. Let's say that you're at home. Let's say you have a great home crowd. You have momentum. What's really important in that situation? To get a stop? You need to get the ball back.

And I think it's easier to get the ball back if you have a motivated defense that has the perception of being down one possession. Maybe the other quarterback is inexperienced. There's pressure now on that offense feeling like they're only up one possession. And the crowd is certainly going to play to that more if you're only down by one possession. So I think there is a scenario where it's smart to take the one.

Nine out of ten, I'm going by the book. But Zimmer does make a point that I think we can't ignore that there are situational elements. You just need to inform it more, like go into it knowing what the numbers are. And I'm not even convinced that Zimmer knows the book that well. I think he's pretty much 100%. How do I feel about this right now? And I don't think that's correct. I know that Zimmer has people informing him about the numbers on the decisions

because he, at the NFL Combine three years ago, two years ago, kind of made fun of them a little bit. And I wrote an article more or less in response to it saying like this differentiation between your feelings and how the analytics people tell you, you should handle these things could be something that is considered when viewing the long-term coaching situation for the Vikings, because the Vikings as a organization want to be progressive and the general manager of the team is in love with the analytics sometimes to the point where you're like

I'm not sure you quite get that one um you know with trying to recreate players in the draft and all that by their heights and weights and 40 times like I'm not sure that you can actually recreate Daniil Hunter by looking at that but um you have to understand what outliers are to properly look at analytics. But there's long been this sort of gap between what the analytics people with the Vikings view as the right way to do some things and how Mike Zimmer handles it. I would say, though, that I totally agree that game situation, how people are playing playing the body language,

the strengths, the weaknesses, like all of this matters. The Arizona Cardinals botched that game last night, about 30 ways sideways. But the biggest was they made the right fourth down decision, despite Brian Greasy wanting them to kick the field goal on first down or whatever. I don't know. But like they made the right decision to go for it on fourth and one to try to get the touchdown. It's like, oh, you're down by two scores. Right. But the touchdown is a lot harder to get. So you should try to get it when you have the chance to get it. But they ran at Aaron Donald. What? Aaron Donald played one of the greatest football games last night I've ever seen by an individual player. He had 15 pressures like this is Reggie White. This is Lawrence Taylor. This is the all time great. And your decision is to run

out of the shotgun up the middle. So that right there by the numbers will go down as a failed fourth down. But at the same time, you know, it was a stupid play call. So like what your play call is, the personnel, all these things have to be factored into a decision. What I don't like is when a coach makes a wrong call and then they work themselves around to all these other explanations. They're like, well, look, we did screw up that call, but it was because of this, this, this, this, the other thing to justify what they were saying. And if a coach said after a game, the reason I didn't go for two down nine was momentum. I'd be like, no, sorry, buddy. I'm just not buying it. Uh, and I know what you're saying. You're saying there's probably a rare

situation where it's possible. None of these things have like definitive, you absolutely must do this every time. So I agree with that part of it. It's just that, um, a lot of times the explanations are sort of cop-outs for, whoops, I screwed up and now I'm trying to figure out a way around this conversation. So I think that Zimmer, I agree, is more in the middle of it. I think that his intuition is often correct. I think he leans toward being more aggressive, which usually ends up matching up with the numbers. I remember looking at a couple of years ago, his punt decisions, and it was like 90% of the time or 80% of the time it went along

with the numbers. But there is also a perception, his age is part of this, or the fact that he wants to run the ball a lot that I think people, when you see him mess one up or do what goes against the numbers, I should say, instead of mess up, then it's, oh, that's classic Zimmer old school coach. When I think you're right, I think it's much more kind of in the middle. And you almost feel like if at some point he had bought in a little bit more, he'd be toward the top because it actually matches up with his sort of predisposition better than maybe he thinks it does.

Yeah, I wish he would sort of start doing things that not a lot of other coaches are doing because I think he kind of got dragged along into this newfound aggressiveness. I think most other coaches beat him to it and he's now joining the masses. I don't think he's ever done anything cutting edge. Like when have the Vikings ever decided to go for two on the first touchdown of the game? You know, just something, something that is analytically sound, but not trendy. They don't do it. You know, they, they don't make those type of risks or going for a fourth and three from their own 45 that never ever happens unless the game is online, obviously.

So I think that there's room to go there. And I think I see the NFL in about 10 years and I think, man, what a fun game. Like the scores are going to be wacky. People are going to be going for two all the time, going forward on fourth down all the time. It's going to be awesome. It's much simpler when you can just stop a team three times. Oh, fourth down. let's punt it away uh i it makes the game more complicated on defense suddenly on third down you can't go into a shell you can't defend the sticks um the ravens have normalized it to where they're so

confident where if it's third and 16 they're totally fine checking it down and getting 13 yards. And because I know they're going forward on fourth down, their confidence helps them execute. It just empowers your players. And I would love if Zimmer became more that way. This is one part about personnel though, because if you have Kirk Cousins or Lamar Jackson, those are different decisions. Lamar Jackson on fourth and five, if everything goes wrong and every receiver is covered, the guy gets five yards because he's Lamar Jackson, where your guy, probably not. I mean, we saw this even from Kyler Murray last night, though he threw two really bad interceptions that cost them that game.

In part, we saw that there was a situation late in the game where they're trying to stop him. He escapes. He gets out or not late in the game where they're trying to stop him he escapes he gets out or not late in the half first half he escapes he gets out he gets into field goal position they get extra points just because of what he could do with his legs that's not something your quarterback could do so if you're not confident you can scheme somebody open then it sort of changes the formula and i think that that's what zimmer's point is but um yeah it can be excuse me it could be a lot better it could a lot worse, which is often the case when we talk about anything with Mike Zimmer or Kirk Cousins or like the Vikings organization in general, which I thought was a tremendous football game. And my Los Angeles Rams take is just flying back and forth.

A couple of weeks ago, somebody sent me a message. Boy, you are on top of the Rams being overrated. And then like after last night, they get this huge win on the road. And like, maybe they're not. I don't know, guys. It's a weird season. But now it's possible that arizona could end up with the two seat possible that green bay could end up with the

one seat so i put it out there on twitter for vikings fans if the vikings get the seventh seed who would you rather face uh i want you to guess the percentage of vikings fans that said arizona versus green bay and i want you to tell me what your answer is. Okay. Well, my, my answer informs what I think the public thinks. Cause I assume everybody thinks like me. I think you would rather face Arizona. I think 85% said that. I think that's absolutely the easy call okay well 70 percent said they would rather face arizona then go down to lambeau field and play green bay which i imagine so give me your rationale i imagine that that plays into it is that playing an indoor stadium against an inexperienced playoff quarterback and kyler murray would be favorable to you as opposed to going and playing one of the great quarterbacks in history in his home place? Yeah, pretty much. You went down there

in week two already. So it's clear that the conditions in Arizona are more favorable to Kirk Cousins than Lambeau Field. I mean, Kirk is not cut out, I don't think, to just get, you know, really motivated in the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field and put on a vintage black and blue division performance in 10 degree weather. Just it's not really his game. I think he needs the Glendale air to to help him along um i don't think that i don't think i would want to face aaron rogers either with this potentially being the green bay swan song and and who knows what his future holds i don't think i'd want to get in the way of that i don't think i would want to play them like let's say that because if the packers are the two seat that might mean you beat them in week 17 i don't think i'd want to play green bay That might mean you beat them in week 17.

I don't think I'd want to play Green Bay a third time having beaten them twice already. That just seems unlikely. So for all of the above, I mean, take advantage of the young quarterback getting his feet wet in the postseason. The stat last night too, he's turned the ball over 11 times at home, I think it was. They've been way more underwhelming at home three and three for whatever reason. Um, probably because it's a pretty easy environment

to play in for, for the road team. Um, I think that's 100% that what, what, what fans should want. And frankly, if I'm traveling to cover it, Matthew on your dime, that's what I would want to. Hey everybody, Minnesota football is in full, and there is no need to exhaust yourself searching all over the internet for Minnesota football tickets because TickPick, that is T-I-C-K-P-I-C-K, is the original no-fee ticket site. It's the only one you'll ever need as your go-to for football tickets. TickPick got rid of all those awful service fees that the other ticket sites charge, which allows them to guarantee the best prices on all of your tickets. Don't believe it. If you can find better prices on the

same seats on another site, TickPick will give you 110% of the difference. Now we've had lots of exciting games at U.S. Bank Stadium this year. There are still more to go, including Los Angeles coming here. It's always interesting when Chicago comes to town. So you're going to want to go to TickPick.com and check it out. And make sure it's TickPick.com slash insider because you can save $10 on your first order for Minnesota tickets. That's TickPick.com slash insider. Yeah. Okay. You bring the golf clubs down there to Arizona. Now I see where you're coming from, but you know, the, uh, let me just make the case though,

for green Bay. I think for one familiarity with green Bay, uh, would help the Vikings. Just in general, division of games over the broad numbers are closer than games played against teams otherwise. You play Green Bay closer. This is probably why Chicago plays the Vikings closer even when they're worse, in part, is just familiarity. If you're Matt Nagy, you know Mike Zimmer extremely well. And if you're Mike Zimmer, you know Matt Nagy extremely well. And so there isn't some wild schematic difference you can throw out there

that's going to fool them. It's pretty much we line up and play. That would be part of it. The other one would be A.J. Green was phenomenal last night. Rondell Moore is very good. Christian Kirk caught an incredible pass at the end of that game that almost gave Arizona a shot if they did not blunder it away at the end. They get an onside kick with 36 seconds left, and they hold and then jump offside. Great job, Arizona. offside great job arizona but anyway uh it was frustrating to see how many different ways they

found to give the rams the game including the two picks but aside from that those receivers there are four of them there's nobody on the vikings that you trust in terms of being able to cover now davante adams is going to rip anybody apart but the rest of those guys and i know some of them had big catches against the vikings rip anybody apart, but the rest of those guys, and I know some of them had big catches against the Vikings last time they played, but the rest of those guys are just unimpressive. And in the playoffs, it sort of bared out last year that Tampa Bay was able to slow down Devontae Adams and force Rodgers to go to different places. And it made life difficult throughout that playoff game for Aaron Rodgers. There is no slow down DeAndre Hopkins and you can force him to go other places. The Vikings match up with Arizona. I just feel like is a very poor one. And I don't think either

defense is good. I don't think that Green Bay has a good defense. I don't think that Arizona has a good defense. And that's another question that I had was, should opposing teams be afraid of the Vikings getting that seven seed, the teams that are battling for the one and two? Because one of PFF's analysts, Timo Riske, tweeted that, that in the playoff race, if you're looking at everybody who could get in, the last team you want in, if you're Green Bay or Arizona, is the Vikings. And I tend to agree with that, even though the last two weeks have seen the Vikings lose to the Lions and nearly blow one of the biggest leads of all time. Yeah, you know, the NFC wildcard teams with the Vikings in the mix would actually be kind of scary because you'd have the Rams as a wildcard team that no one wants to face. You'd have the

49ers who I think they're good. I think they're actually good. I mean, Garoppolo is doing everything on third down right now. Kittle is unstoppable. Debo Samuel lines up anywhere. Brandon Ayuk makes plays. I think they're good good so then you're talking about the seventh seed which yeah i mean if you pick a straw poll of any vegas line setter um arizona against washington like that that's probably more than a touchdown line arizona against the falcons i the vikings would probably be like a three point, four point underdog, honestly, maybe five. But it's going to be less than seven for sure. They're probably the only team that would command that kind of respect. Assuming they have, I would say that

like the foursome of Cousins, Jefferson, Thielen, Cook all intact, then yeah, that's a scary group to face and a group that has proven that they basically can beat Green Bay and basically beat Arizona and a couple other pretty good teams this year too. That Chargers win is looking better all the time. So that is definitely of the five that are vying, yeah, 100%. So I was just looking this up by the way and i would have to fiddle with it a little more but just putting it into the uh computer here on 538's website which has a fun playoff odds machine to toy around with if the vikings beat chicago and then lose the next two their playoff percentage chance is seven percent by the numbers. It's sort of trickling around and now it's at 6%. So 6% is where the Vikings odds are.

If, and I didn't type in all the other results, so that would affect it if Washington fell apart, but someone wins between Washington and Philly in those two games. One of those teams gets one win at least. And that makes it difficult for the Vikings to make the playoffs. That's why their chances are one in three right now. I still think that they will because of the poorness of the other teams, because how bad Washington is, how bad Philadelphia is and so forth. But it's interesting to me that, and I know this is a different discussion. It seems like you

have to get a win against somebody you're not supposed to in order for the Vikings to get in or meltdowns from everybody, which is almost not possible because Philly and Washington play each other. If Philly wins two of those games, well then, you know, they've, they've got an advantage just win loss wise over you. So I kind of like, if you're on the outside, you're thinking, well, the Vikings don't have the easiest path here to make the playoffs, but at the same time, kind of nobody else really wants this position. And if I'm those other teams, of course,

I'm looking at the quarterback situations going. Would I rather play Gardner Minshew or Jalen Hurts or Cousins? I'd rather play one of those guys. Would I rather play Taylor Heineke? Of course I would. I mean, Heineke was a turnover worthy play festival against the Dallas Cowboys the other day. He's not a starting quarterback, everybody. Thank you. And Atlanta, I mean, they have a minus hundred and something point differential. They're a terrible team with no real defense that you would ever be afraid of. And, you know, New Orleans is kind of lurking.

So they are the last team in the world I think you want to face if you're talking about a seven seed, especially because we don't see the late seeds win the Super Bowl or get to the Super Bowl very often. It's been a long time since that's happened, but we do see them pull a lot of wildcard weekend upsets, it seems like. And the Vikings did this just a couple of years ago. But that is kind of a common thing of teams who have great seasons and then go into that game, get a bad matchup, and then lose. Yeah. I mean, the 15-1 Packers, you know, about, I don't know,

eight years ago or so, lost to the Giants. I think that was a Giants Super Bowl year. No, I think it was actually. Um, so there's your example, but I think it's pretty simple the way that you, that, um, you look at the end of this season, you have to go three in one. And then of the four that you're vying with the six and seven group, the only team that can't go three and one as well is Washington. If anyone else goes three and one, I believe you would have the tiebreaker, the conference record, or potentially the head to head, you'd be in. And Washington probably loses to Dallas. And like we've talked about, a split with Philly seems reasonable, especially

with their respective quarterback situations. They're just, there, there, there's no guarantee that, that Washington would beat New York either to, to be honest with you. So I, I think that it's still super reasonable for the Vikings to,

to get in that way. It's just a matter of Rams or Packers. Who, where's that waiting to come from? And I think it has to be Rams but Aaron Donald man who's gonna stop him Garrett Bradbury no nobody CJ yeah it's gonna be a 60 snap game for CJ Ham well the uh if you if you're not aware they when a fullback or a tight end lines up um between the guard and the tackle behind the line,

you know, behind the line, you can sort of envision that. They call it the sniffer position. So maybe it's just a C.J. Hamm sniffer position all day long. It's every lineup. So whichever side Donald is on, he can be there. But that was one of the best individual performances I've ever seen from a defensive player. Every single play, he was demolishing the interior of their offensive line. And if they're coming here for a game that matters to their playoff position for Los Angeles,

and then you look at the receivers that they still have, yeah, they lost Robert Woods, who's really important, but Odell Beckham looked good last night and he's getting their offense, apparently. And Cooper Cup is unstoppable in that Sean McVay offense, it's just, that's where it's hard to see. Um, so I mean, even though I feel like the Vikings have the edge here in terms of their opportunity to make the playoffs, beating one of those teams just looks really hard because of the state of the cornerback group. And,. And Courtney and I talked about it a little bit the other day on the show, but it's just like, there's, there is no solution. And I was having a discussion with some fans and I want to know what you think about this, Sam, because I think there

is a common sentiment that Mike Zimmer is supposed to be the cornerback whisperer. He's supposed to coach him up and scheme them up. And that's a thing he's talked about is they better focus in this week and listen to me. Well, this week, it probably doesn't matter. Justin Fields is nobody to throw to. Chicago's offensive line is a joke. Their running game is non-existent. It's just a horrible, horrible offense that is, unless you play like you did against the Lions, you should be able to at least slow them down and play competently against those next two teams. You, I mean, you got track stars, you, you have great weapons who can get open at any time.

And that's the one place where I would say, if I am another team and looking at who I want to play in the playoffs, the one thing I know the Vikings won't do to me is beat me in a defensive battle. Like if it gets, if it gets ugly, like you could see Washington getting a few strip sacks or interceptions or big plays, uh, Philadelphia, maybe not. They don't have a very good defense, but, uh, the Vikings, you're very confident if you're sending your weapons out against their corners that you can win. And this is where, if there's one way they miss the playoffs, I think that's how. I think that they just can't cover anybody and they end up losing one of these games against Chicago and both of those games against Green Bay and Los Angeles.

And that's that. I think that that would be the one way I would say that they could fall apart here. Well, the problem with that L.A. game, which I think is probably the more winnable of the two tough ones, is that some coaches can look at their offense and say, oh, we've got weapons here. But then they fall in love with the run sometimes, which does a coverage challenge team like the Vikings a favor. I think that Sean McVay, however, will come in and have no qualms about throwing and throwing and throwing. Okay, little mix-up to Daryl Henderson and throw, throw, throw, throw. And Cooper Cup is going to shred them. Mackenzie Alexander, we talked about his season a few weeks ago and how it was sort of looking kind of bad. And now it's looking worse, I feel like. It has not been a great run for him

this season. And that's who's going to be defending Cooper Cup. You're going to need a lot of help on him. Linebackers cheating. And the only hope you have is that you can tap into some of that Stafford magic where you just blitz him like crazy and put him on the ground. But this is not the Stafford Lions. This is the Stafford Rams. I think they're much better. I think they're much better coached when you compare McVay to Patricia. So then it comes down to, well, what's the COVID attrition situation?

Is the Rams roster healthy? How's your roster? And then play it out from there. But I think you're definitely downplaying Chicago, and I think appropriately, but I still wouldn't pencil that game in either. I still think the Vikings are flawed enough that it's going to be a relatively hard victory. Do you think that anybody has chances to change minds in the final four games? I think that if I were to put out a poll, do you want a different, if you could either have everybody back or everybody gone, if that was the poll, I think it'd be 95% everybody gone from Vikings fans right now. I think there's just like a level of frustration at this point, as we speak to this moment of just doing the same thing and having the same

results over and over again, that any change is sort of going to be welcomed. And just, if you peek at the mock drafts, by the way, most of the quarterbacks are going in the middle of the first, which, Hey,

you know, you could pick one with your own pick and maybe have another first round pick if you're trading cousins. So that's the, that conversation right there starts to become a little more intriguing to Vikings fans than even the playoff race conversation. I feel like right now. Um, but do you think anybody can change minds? Like could the roster change minds and people think that Spielman actually did a good job? Could cousins change minds by playing really well down the stretch and winning three out of four? Could Zimmer change minds by scheming the heck out of Matt Stafford as he has in the past and getting a terrible game out of Stafford and upsetting the Rams or going toe to toe with Aaron Rodgers again?

Or does none of it really matter? Are we more of like calling it the last dance, but in more of like a sad, ironic way? I think it feels that way to me. But instead of marching through the season 72 and 10, it's been more of a, like, imagine the Washington Wizards last dance dance you know that that kind of has the the feel doesn't it where gosh I texted you this too Mike Zimmer just looked exhausted today yeah he looked so and coming off like a kind of a bye weekend too he looked so tired I don't know if it was um the COVID news or it was a physical practice or what, or if they were outside of

practice freezing. But man, I feel like that we've always, we've said this for weeks. At what point is it all going to catch up to them? The stress week in and week out, the injury attrition, the COVID protocols. It's been such a fight just to survive every single week that you can't go on like that. So I would lean to that if it was an either or that, yeah, this probably feels like an everybody gone situation. And could they change minds? I said this on the WCCO stream, and I've probably said it on our show before too, but I think a run-the-table situation and an NFC championship game birth would be my criteria for contemplating keeping it the way it is. I think that's the only way because then you could at least say,

our quarterback carried us through tough December games. Our coach kept us alive in trying situations. And here we are. We made it one game from the Super Bowl. That's the only scenario for me. I don't know about you guys, but I've gotten very good in my life at admitting when I need some help. If you are struggling to figure out how to navigate workers' compensation and disability laws, I've got a team that can lend you a hand. Kemet, Sanford, and Kramer are dedicated and experienced disability attorneys, so if you find yourself on your company's injury report, Kemet, Sanford, and Kramer Law can help you understand your rights under Minnesota's workers' compensation laws. Their team of disability attorneys have secured their clients tens of millions of dollars in unpaid and denied benefits. They can help you

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you're not in charge of stuff anymore but we still like you and want you here kind of deal kind of like John Elway in Denver okay John you can't be calling the shots on the roster anymore but you're John Elway so let's keep you around and make you the president of whatever and such so that seems now like that is kind of likely that that will happen since Jeremy Fowler put it out there. But on the other two, on Zimmer and Kirk Cousins, I agree with you that it would have to be that way and that the odds of that do not seem particularly high. So it's sort of a weird position to be in to think about like there's four games left and normally in the NFL, everything rests on everything.

Like the narratives of players' careers are sort of whatever the last game was. So now Stafford all of a sudden beats good teams, right? Like or prove people wrong with that big win. Kyler Murray threw two picks and Stafford gets that to go with him. You know what I mean? Like we've done this with Dance with Cousins many times. So we've got this big primetime game and a chance for cousins to prove everybody wrong.

And it's like, well, I guess, I mean, it's just the game, one game out of over a hundred that he's played. So I don't know that it will change anything. But you know,

we do that all the time. If there's four games left in a playoff race and even a playoff game, and we don't feel like it changes anything, then it's sort of just like ride the wave everybody, because a lot could be different after this. A lot is likely to be different after that. And I, it's just, I don't know that I've ever been in a position before where a team was right on the edge of the playoffs. It could very easily make it. And yet we still felt like, I don't think this impacts anything. I think everybody knows what is coming next. It's just, I think it's a very unique place to be.

Yeah. Is this what purgatory feels like? Right. I mean, a lot of teams get there and the key is to identify it early and not repeat it. And I think the Vikings are in a situation where, okay, they've, they kind of, they made their bed this season. You know, there wasn't going to, there's not going to be a mid season season shake up at this point. They can hope for the best. They can, the people that are in place can, can try to win a Superbowl and go out swinging,

knowing that this is probably the final stage. And I'd be really curious to know how much awareness there is of that. If Kirk Cousins is playing this thinking that he could be trade bait after this season. If Mike Zimmer, who has always pointed, I think, to his overall record as, hey, I'm a 600 coach. I'm not that far off from Denny Green. Why would anyone consider even thinking of releasing me for my duties? I do wonder if there's that awareness. Are they so insulated in their own business, their own discussions that are they even aware that these talks are happening? I would assume so. I would guess they are, but I also am not convinced that they're hearing it from ownership.

Like, Hey, like you're on thin ice here. I don't know if that's happening either because we just don't know how the Wilfs operate. Do you wonder like looking at Zimmer today, this is just the last thing I'll ask. And of course it's like the hottest question that I could ask you that I saved 45 minutes into this conversation to ask it,

but has it gone through your mind at all the potential that zimmer would get to the end of this year and be like you know what i i just want to take a year off i i just this is he's talked a lot about his grandchildren stuff he looks totally gassed which you know he always does by this point in the year it's like that you know uh before covid does by this point in the year. It's like that, you know, uh, before COVID after COVID or whatever meme where you just, or whatever before 2020. And it's like a person with a long beard who just looks disheveled and somebody fresh faced kind of thing. Uh, but that's what it looks like every year, like in training camp, it's Mike Zimmer smiling in the sun. And then by week 14, I mean, the guy looks like he's just been through war.

But I, it did go through my mind, like the way that he's been different this year, I think just in front of us that I wonder if he would consider just saying like, all right, I can't rebuild this roster. Like I don't have the patience or the time for this. And maybe I'm going to do what McCarthy did. Like take a year away, take another position, something like that. I think that there would be a lot of teams that would benefit greatly from having Mike Zimmer as their head coach or even greater as their defensive

coordinator or just as many. But I wonder if he, even he looks at this and says like, do I have, even if they're going to keep me around, like, do I have, even if they're going to keep me around, like, do I have more years of this or would it be a graceful way instead of he gets fired for him to say, I'm stepping away and then comes back with, I don't know, Cincinnati after they fire Zach Taylor after next year, which will probably

happen. So just cause you know, that's how it goes with coaches who don't know what they're doing. Anyway, I just wonder what you think of that. Man, everything that Mike Zimmer has ever said indicates that he's going to coach until he falls over. Yep. I mean, he, the way he talks about this job, how he wants to do it until they won't have him anymore. And he wants to, to be the one't have him anymore. And he wants to be the one to win the championship because he's always said, somebody's going to do it. I want it to be me. I just don't think he has it in him. And he's been through the Bobby Petrino thing where he felt like a coach quit on a team. And Mike Zimmer really, really hates quitters. And I don't think

he could ever bring himself to do it, even though it would be a fairly reasonable thing for like someone who's been through kind of what he's been through. His health maybe isn't the best to, uh, to take some time off and step aside from a, from a high stress job. Gary Kubiak did it. I don't know if Mike Zimmer views Gary Kubiak as a quitter because he had stress in his life that cost him his previous head coaching job. I wouldn't call it quitting, by the way. I wouldn't at all. I would not at all call it quitting. I would call it just reaching the end of the road and saying, I need to step back and then maybe do something else.

But I think Mike would perceive it as that. I think he would. Yeah, could be. I think he would view that gesture as quitting, whether it is or not. It probably wouldn't be fair to him, but I just think he's too hard-nosed to do it. His heart would have had to grow three sizes maybe by the birth of his grandkid. Maybe that softened him. But I don't think that would be part of his MO. Yeah, I've wondered about it.

I mean, he is a go-down fighting kind of guy, like run it all the way to the end, and you see it. This is one thing that I respect greatly about him is he is one of the most competitive people that I have been around in sports, and he will just fight and scratch and claw and poke people's eyes out. Like if you fought him, he'd be a biter.

Like he would just leave nothing on the table until he was dead. You couldn't be sure that it was over. And so that's always impressive about him. And maybe you're right because of that mentality. I guys, there have been things that have been different about Zimmer this year. And that came to mind when you were talking about just how exhausted he looked on the press conference. When you talk about the differences, are you just referring to like the honest, sort of the brutal honesty or is it something else? Well, it's always been that way. But, you know, I mean, he's always been like willing to say this player should have done this

or I'm not so happy with this technique or whatever else. I think in a way there's a lot less maybe defensiveness about the issues with the team when we ask about them like i i there really has there was a point in the season where he seemed to get a little a little ornery about being questioned about being one in three or whatever else and sort of defensive about the team being good and that sort of thing um but a lot of the way I haven't, I haven't felt like he has sort of been like fighting back with these things that he gets asked about during the press conferences. And he's been much more willing to sort of be open with his answers and even more. It's not even honest, but it's like the way in which it's honest, I guess is kind of how I think

of it. And maybe that's just a small perception, but we've been around him for a long time and I feel like it's different. And I don't even know if I'm putting it exactly the right way, but there, I mean, there were times where the team was 11 and three and you would ask about something and he would just be like, I'm not telling you or whatever. You know what I mean? Like just him being him in the midst of the season and whatever and going to work. And I haven't really felt that way. It's almost like somebody who sort of accepted what's going on here and what's going to happen here. That's how it feels to me.

Like the stages of your time as a head coach here is over, you know, maybe there's a defiance and there's an acceptance or something. I don't know. But it's, it's something that I'll be interested in kind of keeping an eye on. And you're probably right. I mean, he is probably a fight to the end type of person. But maybe if they said, Mike, I think we probably need to make a change.

Can you convince us that you can do it next year? Do you have a plan? Or would you rather just say, I'm stepping away Gary Kubiak style? I don't know what he would choose at this point, because I think that there's a lot to be done here to get to the point where you can compete for a Super Bowl again. And it might be better for him to step away and go coach whoever who's on the sort of the doorstep of being really good. And that might be, you know, kind of like McCarthy has done with Dallas. So anyway, well, a very good discussion to have at the very end of the show.

Good job. Good job by me planning that out, starting with the stupidest COVID stuff. Anyway, well, Sam, thank you for your time. Thank you for all of you who have joined in to this. And if you're hearing us for the first time, Purple Insider podcast happens every day. Great guests that we have, Courtney Cronin, Bill Barnwell is coming on the show later this week. So that's exciting.

We do giveaways sometimes, stuff like that. So make sure you check that out. And purpleinsider.substack.com is the website for our written stuff. So we will catch you guys later.