Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Why Randy Moss's exit and return should have been different ft. Judd Zulgad

Episode Date: June 29, 2021

We continue What Coulda Been Week with Judd Zulgad, who talks about Daunte Culpepper and Percy Harvin's legacies along with why Judd thinks it's fair to wonder what would have happened if the Vikings had drafted Aaron Rodgers despite Daunte's excellence the year before. Plus Judd talks about Randy Moss from the perspective of the first trade to send him to Oakland and his disaster 2010 return. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider as we continue what could have been week we've had a very fun time here so far and what could have been week going back through vikings history and looking at all the butterfly effects and what ifs here as we uh take a little time to reflect before training camp and then things get very serious so for this episode of what could have been we welcome a mastermind of what could have been Judd Zolgad. What is up, Judd? What's going on, Matthew Collar? This is right up my alley because this is how we get to a Super Bowl. What could have been is how we get there, right?

Because they have not, just to be clear, the Vikings have not been to the Super Bowl since I believe I was seven years old. So like, this is the only way as an adult that so far I can get there is to go back and revise history in some sort of way, shape or fashion to twist the facts into a Superbowl birth, if nothing else. Yeah, that's right. It's a really, what was it? South Park was imagination land. So that it is only in imagination land that the Vikings reach a Superbowl, but what gets unearthed when we do this is just so many interesting pivot points in history and so many interesting discussions about things that could have or should have happened. And a lot of times we can work our way and finagle our way into, if only it had been this, then it would have gone to a Superbowl. Though, I think there are a lot of Vikings fans who probably say something else would

have gone wrong if they had done it anyway. But I gave you sort of your own choice on some of these, but before we get to those I want to ask you about the ones that really sort of stick out for this week that are going to kind of keep coming up. One of them is Dante. The other one is Percy Harvin. And I, and I guess I just want you to talk about both of those guys because they are, even though I was not here in Minnesota yet and not covering the Vikings yet, when both of those guys played, they are two figures that I would have viewed even just as a person watching football in Buffalo, New York,

as like big, giant superstars, the guy you play with on Madden. And it never worked out for either one of them. And I feel like that is the ultimate kind of Vikings curse is to have these players. So many teams have these players and they're there for 10 years and they go to the halls of fame and so forth. And, and with those two, you can only imagine kind of where they could have taken the franchise, even, even sort of separately had they never even crossed paths. It's, it's, it's really something to think of those careers getting cut short with the true greatness that both of those guys possessed. So let's start with Dante Culpepper because that's an interesting one. There are so many twists and turns. Percy's a little bit simpler, unfortunately, for Percy.

But Dante has twists and turns and organizational twists and turns that make this one to me so intriguing because, you know, the one what if when it comes to Dante Culpepper is what if he doesn't take off with the ball in Carolina in that 2005 game and literally have his knee blown up? Because, I mean, he got hit by two guys and and it didn't Teddy explode his leg, but it exploded his knee. And that forever changed his career. And of course, it set him on the path where he went and decided to rehab by himself. And his children would say i'm

envisioning a chinese restaurant and a strip mall and that great thing about how he how he went to miami i believe and decided that he was going to take care of his own knee and then basically forced the vikings to trade him but what if he doesn't get hurt because then he's not rehabbing and the and where this would have come back to really give him to what you're saying, a chance to be, to have, I don't know if second act is the right word, but to have ultimate success here is this one, you know, the Vikings when Childress got the job, went out and signed Steve Hutchinson to that mega contract to play left guard.

That offensive line became really good in large part because of that Matthew and if Dante doesn't have the falling out with the Vikings and you now have a full coaching staff and they're now spending money because that was the thing is red didn't and keep in mind too so in March of 2005 the team got sold and was officially, the purchase was completed in June of 2005. But in March of 2005 is when Moss gets traded to Oakland. But that was because, in part, red was so damn cheap, right? And so, and then in the 2005 season, which was the first year of the Wolves, but they were more observing things. So I wouldn't say that they were more observing things so

i wouldn't say that they were really running the team per se that's the one where the vikings didn't have uh tice coached them but they they had this is unbelievable their oc and their offensive line coach was the same guy poor steve looney who was a great guy was asked to do both jobs like that's a lot to do in division one college, let alone the pros. And Dante 1,000% suffered because of that fact. He suffered because of Moss being gone. So what if Dante had gotten in with the organization when it started to spend and bring guys back? And that's where I think there are a million what ifs.

What if they don't trade Moss? Like, if they keep Moss, there's just a lot that went into his career in a relatively short time that changed the course of that career greatly. And, you know, Childress did say that when he took the job, when he finally left Philadelphia as their offensive coordinator and took the Vikings job, he thought he was getting a franchise QB in Culpepper and that Culpepper was going to come back and be fine and the day that Culpepper tried to talk his way out of town and alienated the Vikings changed things drastically so like that one to me could have gone in so many different positive directions and ultimately didn't you know that's a part of the whole conversation that I guess I really didn't understand before. I mean, I knew that it was the knee injury, but the organizational incompetence

at the time, you look around today and you look at the Daniel Hunter situation, you go, they're going to get that solved. And you look at Anthony Barr from a couple of years ago, he's ready to leave. And they're like, why don't you just come back? We'll just give you a bunch of money. And sometimes it's been to their detriment, but for the most part, it has been a major plus for this organization. And there have been accusations and I get it that the Wilfs, they don't care about winning a Superbowl, that they just want to be competitive. I get where that comes from, but you can never accuse them of being cheap. This is why people know Rob Brzezinski's name is because

Rob is fantastic at what he does. He's the elite of the cap gurus in the NFL, but Rob himself will tell you it's because they give me the money to do it. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to do all this stuff with the cap. I wouldn't be able to front load contracts. I wouldn't be able to give these bonuses. We would just have to lose a lot more players than we have. And so it's funny to think about just within the last 20 years, how much different that landscape is. And if Dante had trusted the organization, then maybe he is doing his surgery and his rehab under their guidance. Oh, he would have been.

And maybe he's comes back and he's okay. I mean, Teddy, you know, I know that the situation with Teddy's a little more, it's different. guidance oh he would have been and maybe he's comes back and he's okay i mean teddy you know i know that the the situation with teddy's a little more uh it's different it's a little more convoluted but like the fact that medicine has even taken its steps forward is also another conversation too the fact that teddy bridgewater is playing nfl football right now is bananas like the vikings didn't even think that that could happen and so I've got to think that Culpepper would have been able to come back at 90% of what he was or or more as opposed to a shell of himself which is what he became yeah and he also so you're right and what got weird about that was there was a day in training camp in 2005 so this is Tice's last year and the Wilfs

have just bought the team. But again, they're really not, they really don't know what they're doing at this point. They're more observing and trying to learn. And in Brzezinski, the funniest thing here is Brzezinski struck in this case, but it's exactly what you're saying, which is he struck with a great contract for the Vikings, but he didn't have the ability to fix what he had done, which he does now.

And Dante, if you go back and look around that time area, I forget, 2003 or something, signed what was reported as a $100 million contract. It was, oh my gosh, it's $100 million, right? It had a ton of cash up front, and then it just ran out. And Culpepper held what turned out to be a wildcat strike from a training camp. I remember the day vividly. It was a Saturday in Mankato. And, of course, the Vikings are like, well, he had something personal to attend to or something, right?

But that's where the distrust began. And then he fired his agent and represented himself. And, like, the whole thing turned into a mess. But I think it was all salvageable if the knee doesn't give out like and and yes if they had had the ability at the time to smooth things over with him i think you're right i think he rehabs here i think i mean he he wasn't the world's smartest dude but i think if you had just adjusted things slightly and of course if you do that what's really intriguing is then you've got your quarterback still theoretically for how many more years? And I mean, Dante Culpepper in the big picture of this franchise is still a pretty successful QB.

So let's say he's here through, I don't know, 2010 or something like that. How much different are things and how much different are we talking about the legacy of Dante Culpepper? Because if he's their starting quarterback, let's say from approximately 2001 to 2010 or so, that's a very different storyline. Based on the way his career started, where the NFL went with offenses, where that team went in terms of how strong they were in 2009. I mean, there's a chance that he's, you know, having a Ben Roethlisberger type length of career for the Vikings. And I also think that there's a chance that you reach a Superbowl with Dante Culpepper. If he continued to grow as a quarterback and never got hurt and continued to do all the things that he was able to do because offense is simplified through

the years that I think would have really helped him eventually. And then the running quarterback became even more popular, which I think that teams started to discover how exactly they could even use it as opposed to, I dropped back and, Oh, now I'm going to run with it. It became much more with Colin Kaepernick. Even it became much more of a, this, this is like a weapon that we can use and we see that now with you know half the league is using their quarterback as a weapon in the running game uh with Percy

Harvin we don't have to talk a ton about it but I always found him to be super interesting in that he's like a receiver Barry Sanders if you watch his highlight reel one of the most unstoppable players his kick returns there's something the most unstoppable players, his kick returns. There's something different with Cordero Patterson's returns for touchdowns and Percy Harvin's where Patterson, it feels like a freight train has sort of just run by everyone where Percy Harvin, it's just, it's over like lightning. It's like he catches the ball and then he's in the end zone. It's that fast.

And every, I swear every touchdown he caught was a 20, 30, 40 yard, 50 yard touchdown there. And then he would line up in the backfield at the goal line or something. I mean, just one of the most unique players of all time. And it feels like the only guy who has his sort of career and gets talked about as like hall of fame greatness is Gail Sayers. And it's weird to compare the two but in a way he was that exciting but just never kind of was able to have it all come together at once yeah and i mean i think a lot of it i shouldn't say a lot some of it's definitely on him as well um i i don't know the real story behind the migraines and i mean they were a real thing i just don't know the real story behind the migraines.

And I mean, they were a real thing. I just don't know enough about that. But let me say this. And I guess in this case, I wouldn't revise the history. And this is a very rare thing to say, I think, about a draft pick. And I'm going to give the Vikings a rare compliment here. Percy had his problems. He dropped in the draft that they took him in 2009 because he failed a

marijuana test at the combine, which I don't care about dope, but that's one of the stupidest things. Like, you know, you're going to be tested and then you get busted for it. That's really bad. But here's where I'll give the Vikings credit. It's the only time when I've covered them that number one, it became very very very clear early who they would take if he dropped like i remember we we left that dog and pony spielman press

conference um and ordinarily he's like talked his way around everything right and it was just abundantly clear that if percy dropped to them which was becoming a possibility at that point that they would take him the other thing is in the grand scheme of things and taking a shot at the 2009 super bowl which i mean again they should have made that game um i love the fact that they basically said you know what the future is not nearly as important as the present and this guy is going to make a difference in the present and he's going to do it by stepping in immediately which which he did. So, like, it's a very weird – I don't know how many times I can say that about Vikings draft picks.

Moss, obviously, but then he paid it off for quite a while after that. But Percy Harvin was the perfect timing. And then once they got Favre, and I give the Vikings coaching staff and Favre a ton of credit too because go back to your point about going back to watch the highlights. You realize how much they entrusted him to do for a rookie, what a lot of teams wouldn't have done, right? Like there's a lot of, I don't want to call them complex things,

but there's a lot they put on his plate and trusted him. And he succeeded. And so where that was actually, to me, one of the most interesting picks in Vikings history was the just overall immediacy of this kid might fail eventually, but this year he's going to be really good. And he was really good. And I just, after hearing some of his comments, he's done very few interviews, but a couple of them since. And you think that even with today's mental health resources, that he would have been a lot better off.

And I also, I mean, we wonder how many guys who were just painted as being problematic and aloof and whatever, maybe just had mental health issues that they could have gotten resolved now that, you know, at the time, maybe going to a sports psychologist would have seemed like, you know, something that a football player wouldn't have wanted to do. But now I think a team would have said, hey, let's, you know, get you some help with this. So and the other thing, too, I mean, you mentioned the weed part of it, but it's just amazing how far we've come with that, where nobody cares. States don't care. The NFL doesn't care unless it's Josh Gordon for some reason. And it's just remarkable how our attitudes are different toward players who come across as aloof. And I think there's much more of an effort instead of to push back on them to say, how can we help you and how can we get you to a place where you can continue to have a good career? And, you know, I mean, you just wonder how many players

had similar experiences to Percy Harvin because of that attitude. Yeah. The one thing with Percy that I find intriguing is this, because with Childress as his coach, it was not going to work. I mean, Brad's a football coach. He was not going to be a touchy-feely, I'll help you guy. Zimmer would be the exact same way the one thing that surprised me was Pete Carroll because you would have thought if anybody because

I think Carroll's pretty good with his players and you would have thought if anybody could have sort of reached out to a player like Percy and helped him out and at least guided him in the right direction it would have been Pete Carroll and I I don't know I think there were a lot of demons there as well uh but I am totally with you in that this guy's talent and what he could do and I always thought his football smarts as far as being given assignments uh as a rookie that a lot of guys would probably fail I mean Cordell Patterson at the end of the day was spectacular when he was because God hit him with the athletic stick and said you're blessed and he

was but like he couldn't run around he couldn't do a lot of things percy had percy had the talent um completely but then he could do all those things and that's where like if you think about it cordell patterson could still be here today if he could have done the things that percy could do as far as the intelligence of how to play the game. Because that's the one thing that I think we probably don't talk about enough. And I mean, heck, in your breakdowns of film, you see this. It takes a lot of smarts and a lot of positions to be good. Like that's not just dumb luck. And it's not just I can run fast or I can cover.

It's also a lot of things and preparation that go into it that we as fans or in our job in the media don't appreciate. Yeah, totally. The, the mental capacity is one way to think about it because there's just so much information that you have to gather, even on a given play. It's like, there's so many options that go into a lot of different plays. And what if they're playing you this way and how your foot's supposed to go on the ground i mean sage rosenfels talks about this at the nfl level you have to have your steps exactly right like in college you know we kind of call the plays and they're pretty simple it's got to be this way but in the nfl it's if this guy shoulder turns that way you go this

way and if this guy takes one step back then you put your foot in the ground here like every play has so much detail and we have come a long way in understanding that i think because of film breakdowns because of former player podcasts and everything else where you realize okay these guys aren't generally just wandering out on the field as great athletes and dominating. I'm sure it's happened in history, but even with Randy Moss, he was incredibly smart and detailed

when it came to the game. So that's what makes Harvin a fascinating character to me because he just had absolutely everything except for the health issues. You know, it's funny though, he got along great with Rex Ryan and he almost had revamped his career in Buffalo funny though he got along great with rex ryan and he almost had revamped his career in buffalo and then he got hurt again and that was yeah then that was kind

of it so uh anyway all right so you made a couple of these yourself to talk about uh why don't we start out with one that i know drives our friend manny hill crazy that you uh like to talk about this one but the draft involving one Aaron Rogers, why is this on your what if list? Okay. It's it's I think, and there were people that call me crazy, but I think to, I think it's more relevant in 2021 than it ever was in 2005, because I'm just going to lay out the scenario and I'm going to eliminate the names. Okay, Matthew Keller? And you tell me the odds of this happening now without somebody saying, hold on a second here. You go into a draft with two quarterbacks that are considered the potential number one overall pick.

Two guys. overall pick two guys and the thing is after the first pick though most teams have a qb which in on its surface sounds hilarious now to me i got my qb um and so the second guy who easily could have been the first overall pick because these guys were neck and neck like this was a neck and neck race the second guy falls to if i'm not mistaken pick 24 and meanwhile the minnesota vikings have two picks before the packers at 24 and everybody just says nah got our quarterback we're taking we're taking this guy and that guy and by the way what wasn't a very good draft for the most part that's the 2005 draft. And that's the story of Alex Smith and, more importantly, Aaron Rodgers

and the fact the Vikings took Troy Williamson with the pick they got in the Mawstraid from Oakland, number seven, and then came back and took Erasmus James, I believe, at, was it 19? 18 or 19. I don't have it right in front of me okay but the point but the point is think about that scenario 2005 so 16 years after the fact okay think about a draft where the aaron rogers of the draft just free falls because everybody else says and nobody trades up nobody comes gets him nobody says i've

got two draft picks first round uh call pepper is really good but this kid needs some work but he could have been the first overall pick as a quarterback and everyone's like i'm good i don't see how it's crazy to suggest that a team like the vikings and i'm not saying the same thing i'm not saying aaron comes to the vikings and has the same success because I do think the Packers behind the scenes did a lot of good work with him. But I don't think it's crazy to talk about the what if the Vikings had said, we got two picks. At number seven, I still think they take Troy.

It's a complete bust, but I do. But the Erasmus James pick, you could have said, we're getting down there in this draft a little bit. And a guy considered the number one quarterback prospect, at least by many, has fallen to us. Folks, if you are pumped up about how the Vikings did in the draft and now the schedule's out, it is a great time to get yourself a Skull Flag or Bud Grant shirt. And of course, there's much, much more. If you go to SodaStick.com, S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com, check them all out. And if you use the promo

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good prospect it was surprising that that Denver passed on him. The Carolina passed on him. Those were like, what, uh, what are you guys doing? So I totally agree that in a different world, you're not having that ever happened again. The only thing about it is Dante Culpepper is coming off an incredible year in 2004. It's not just okay. I mean, if there was any writing on the wall with Culpepper that there could be problems ahead, which I guess if you're the Vikings, maybe you should just always assume there's problems ahead. But that is the part of it where it's like, it's a good point because if they had said, well, look, we've just got to

draft this guy and whatever. And if it had been such a big conversation about the rookie quarterback contract, which it is now, but it wasn't then, then maybe you're, you would be saying that it's just, it's a little hard to get around the fact that just Dante was so good. You thought you were completely set for a long time. Now, if they had, if you play that out, I don't know if he becomes what he is but probably though I mean he's kind of he's his own guy though right I mean he probably does if Dante gets hurt Rodgers takes over grows into one of the best quarterbacks in the league you know Super Bowl what right I mean that probably does happen if they had said well

we can't let this guy fall any farther we've just got to take him and here's my question going back in time too and i've never talked about this before but it occurs to me as a factor behind the scenes that we didn't know about at the time again at some point around this time it became very clear that dante was going to realize and not be happy about the fact he signed a contract that was all show, right? $100 million, but really wasn't that great. And so if his agent had come to you by that point and said, hey, we got to redo this, and your people had said, I don't know about that. I'm sorry. It becomes even more tempting, I think, than to take his

replacement potentially, because you, behind the scenes. The other thing about Aaron that was really intriguing at the time and where I think the Packers did a great job. And I don't know, it would have taken if you were smart, you would have done what they did and at least have been patient by not three years, but probably a year, maybe two is when he came out of a cal he had those and it was talked about going into that 2005 draft those jeff tedford mechanics uh that were not good and were not pro style mechanics and they i mean that was that was the current concern was that that was going to have to be coached out of him and it clearly was and he did a good job as well but i just i think there's probably things behind the scenes that were going on from the vikings standpoint that even would have led you down the path more of hey this could be dante's replacement if we're if we're truly not going to give him a new contract so i just if the vikings

had one pick i probably would never talk about this but when you have two picks in that draft before 24 and one is as close as the packers was and how do you not do and did this is a vikings fault at the time how do you not do more due diligence to find out erasmus james hates a few things in life and one of them's football like he was really good in college at wisconsin he's fantastic but i mean that guy it was clear from day one he did not enjoy the sport. And so, yeah, I mean, you, you can say, look at his sack stats in college, look at how good he is, but it would have helped if somebody had come around and said, yeah,

but you know what? He doesn't really like it. And, and when he gets to the pros, it's going to be a problem. So I only talk about this more so because of that pick, because that pick was still at this sort of place where you could have definitely taken a chance. And you're right today. Today, if you have the same dilemma, Aaron Rodgers probably gets to five or six and then somebody, if nothing else, trades for him. And there are other quarterbacks who were drafted when the young quarterback there was like any question. I don't think there was a question if dante was a franchise quarterback at the time but there are other instances of just taking the quarterback even though your guy is already great i don't even if you say farve doesn't qualify look how much longer uh tom brady has played

since they drafted jimmy garoppolo or i'll give you another one the green bay packers picked brian braum when they had aaron rogers and there was some talk that brian braum would be the better quarterback i don't know draft season is so good draft season so good they took him at 56 overall because there were some questions about aaron rogers so from that angle you could say that there are other instances of teams just saying bleep it we're going to take the quarterback anyway because he's our top guy on the board. And if they had done that, then history would be very, very different. And I will give you one more. Packers, what could have been in the same vein as well, that would have meant Aaron wouldn't have gone to the Packers. And then the question goes, how far from 24 would he drop? And that's one when i was covering the packers um so the 2005

draft was the last packer event i covered because i've been on the beat in three and four and i in three or four you'd probably know this uh mike sherman who was then the gm at that time really liked and the packers wanted to draft jp lossman and he didn't get to him but they would have i think they would have pulled the trigger no question on lossman if they could have and if they had i don't see any way then they come back shortly thereafter and take rogers so there's a there's a chance that this run of packer quarterback success could have come to a very hard stop if jp lossman had been eventually farve's replacement and there was always the stories in buffalo that the Bills wanted Ben Roethlisberger.

And I think he got picked right before J.P. Lossman. And then there's their own historical what if issues. All right. On to your next one. What if the Vikings don't trade for Randy Moss in 2010? What is the what is the what if there that that it doesn't provide us with hilarity for decades of upon decades what if i don't go on the boat too i should have sent you that one

um all right so this one's really intriguing like this one's super intriguing because of this i'll just start here if they don't trade for Moss in 2010, they have a bad year. Like that year was destined to be bad. It wasn't Moss' fault they stunk. But Childress doesn't get fired. I sent you the details. But remember, in November of, I want to say it was 2009, in the midst of their, what was it, 13-3 season and a run to the conference championship game, Brad Childress signed an extension that I believe went through 2013 and i think had guaranteed money through 2012 so that's a big contract extension and we're talking about we're in 2009 there so then moss gets traded for because sydney rice is mad about his contract and not playing in 2010 and they bring moss on board and it's a glorious

month of just absolute dumpster fire and moss of course is let go by childress and children's jettisoned them without telling the wilfs and so that got the snowball rolling for brad to get fired way more than the record itself so i'll just start there if they don't trade for moss and they struggle through, and I mean, part two to the plausible, what would they have done with Rice out was, I always go back to, they had that trade for Vincent Jackson with the Chargers worked out. And the Chargers GM at the last second said, I'm not going to trade him. But I mean, that was, I think that trade was, as far as the Vikings were concerned, a done deal. So if it's Vincent Jackson at that time, he clearly does not cause the problems Randy did, right? So whatever the circumstance, if Moss doesn't come here, Matthew,

Brad Childress is not fired. I think they could have been awful. But, I mean, if you're coming off a conference championship game appearance, right, the season's falling apart, but you don't do something that's considered by ownership to be an egregious move. Brad Childress, the question then becomes how long is Childress coach for? Because I don't see any way in November of 2010, after they got drilled by the Packers,

that he gets fired if you don't have, if you didn't have the starting point, which was we just traded for a superstar player and you released him and didn't tell us, which I know that they were livid about you know i also think about too is randy moss's legacy here uh was more or less even though he left on somewhat bad terms but it was more or less like solidified in gold right and then he comes back and there's nothing randy could do to ruin his legacy. But it was bad taste in the mouth of absolutely everybody after he left. I mean, the Vikings fans would have total reason to be like, what the hell was that, Randy? Right. And and Randy himself seemed to come in with a chip on his shoulder just a mile wide for whatever reason and and it just created this tension that did not get resolved it seemed between Randy Moss and the Vikings until

they put him in the ring of honor and then he did the press conference at Winter Park where he kind of put it all out there and even took responsibility for some of it um some some was classic Randy I gave my all on every play i ever played and you're like no no you didn't in fact you admitted you didn't like on the video yeah you you said it told you heart man i play and that was great because sid was at that press conference and sid said remember when you told me you play when you want to play and he was like well i think that was misunderstood like yeah no not though. So there was a little rewriting of history, but he actually, he kind of got it all off his chest.

It's still on the Vikings website. If anybody wants to go find it, go find it. It's incredible. Randy Moss just being like reflective about his whole time here. But after that, and the Vikings did such a great job with that too, because they invited Randy to talk about a business opportunity. So they sort of tricked him into it. And then he walked out and saw his name on the ring of honor.

And maybe there was like a painting or something. It was like, well done to make him feel like. Yeah, right. To make him feel like he was really wanted back and and they just couldn't have this anymore. But excuse me, I wonder if he doesn't come back in 2010, if there's a Kumbaya way before that. And it's like, oh, you know, thanks for the memories, everything else. It really left it. So they needed a lot of space in between before they kind of came back together again. Yeah.

And part of the problem, too, with the Patriots and then extended here was he wanted a new contract at the time. And I mean it was crystal clear pretty early that he was cooked for him because his skill set was so special I mean such a great player it wasn't like he was going to stick around as a possession guy I mean he wasn't he was never going to be Jerry Rice of I just want to play forever it's like once he couldn't do what he could do it changed and he wanted a new contract and I think he thought the Vikings upon arrival were going to give him a new contract.

And they weren't going to. They basically wanted him to lift them up and pair him with Favre for the rest of 2010, which, you know, at the time the trade was made was still plausible. So, yeah, it's interesting, though. You know, I thought about this fact because you're right, Moss. Now, in the short term Moss took heat but like it was quickly forgotten and I think the reality is this Childress was so right or wrong and it's partially right labeled as the bad guy at the time that I think in retrospect now he takes

the heat for it yeah yeah so like he's the one that let Moss go despite despite the fact that, I mean, don't forget, Moss got cut in large part because he walked into the locker room after the Patriots game, looked at the Wilfs and their friends and said, y'all better get yourself a new effing coach because this guy can't coach. So like, I could see why Brad would be upset, but you got to tell your bosses. But yeah, it got, I think you're right. I think if he doesn't get traded back here and the Wilfs never own the team when he is playing for the team, I think you repair things quicker.

Although Randy did get to this weird point of reflection that you're talking about that I don't know when it came exactly, but it really sort of changed. I mean, he's not a great guy now, but he's definitely, he definitely has a softer edge than he did back then. I mean, that guy could be a first-class jerk. That's why I great guy now, but he's definitely, he definitely has a softer edge than he did back then. I mean, that guy could be a first-class jerk. That's why I've always said you have to

retire his number because I personally never liked him. Like, I don't think he's that great a guy, but he's a phenomenal talent. So how I feel about him as a human doesn't matter at all. Hey everyone, I want to tell you about our friends at Scout Logistics. And I really do mean it when I say friends. They are fans of Purple Insider over at Scout Logistics. And since they reached out wanting to support this show, I want to tell you about what they do. Scout Logistics is just-in-time transportation for full tractor-trailer loads. And if you're wondering what that means exactly, well, if you own or work for a company that needs shipping solutions, they are the preferred carrier of Fortune 500 companies across North America.

And we have quite a few of those in Minnesota, right? They can ship perishable, non-perishable, FTL or LTL, and they have on-time delivery rate of over 99%. So if you're like them and you enjoy the show and you have shipping needs, check out scoutlogistics.com or call 855-217-2688 extension 232 to connect with them directly to find out how Scout Logistics can minimize risk and overperform and go the extra mile for your company. There was, it's really interesting, his sort of post-career path because he was out of sight completely and then he started doing these like i don't know facebook live chats with fans and they were crazy good it was like what is this it's just so interesting and then networks start to kind of pick up on it like okay randy moss apparently wants to kind of be out there again and then there's the documentary about him which entirely i think explained all the things we didn't understand and and that to me the 30 for 30 which is so good and it's kind of a shorter one i wish it was longer but it's so good. And it's kind of a shorter one. I wish it was longer, but it's so good. And it's so reflective from him and so insightful that you totally understood why he had that chip

on his shoulder, which made, I think everyone more empathetic to all the things that he did wrong, which he was wrong, but you kind of got it at that point. Like, okay, this guy, where he came from and the things that he dealt with early in his life, not that he was the victim on all of them, of course, but he went through a lot. And so he came to not trust people. And that was a part of his sort of defensiveness as a person, because it's so interesting to talk to. And I talked to Mo Williams about this one time, just about Randy that they knew versus Randy that the outside world knew. And the gap between those things was a mile wide because he was himself around them. But I think in the public was much

more of much more defensive. So the last one that you have also involves Randy Moss and trading him away in 2005. And what if they don't do that? Now, here's my question for you on if they don't do that now here's my question for you on if they don't do that did they have to like at that point because i obviously don't remember all the details around this was it a situation where it was just so bad with their relationship between moss and the vikings that they didn't have any other choice it felt like the relationship between the organization and moss at that point was beyond repair but again in 2005 with a player of that talent, if that's 2021, do you fire the coach and make changes or do you trade the player? Because this was, I mean, he was still, and he went to Oakland

and wasn't that great, but I think that was as much an Oakland thing probably as it was a decline in talent. He truly declined in talent around 2010. But I guess I would argue that if you wanted to keep Dante as happy as possible and you believed in Dante, and that's pre-knee injury for him, I think a feeling at the time was he has to be traded. I think my feeling now upon seeing a lot more of sports and how sports work and how this league has evolved into being a player's league as well. You know, Mike Tice wasn't going to be here forever.

And Tice tried his best to get the most out of Moss. I want to say some of it came down to some financial details with red as well. Again, the team was in a transition of a sale, but if I'm the Wilfs and I'm about to buy the team, do I, you know, if I'm about to acquire your team, do I really want you to trade Randy Moss? I'm not so sure about that. And you know, if the, if the franchise, cause the Wilfs did eventually spend, I mean, in 2006, they started spending. So was there a case to be made that, that the Wilfs, when they were talking to McCombs should have tried harder to keep Moss probably. And, and i just go back to that whole

time period because that team was run at the end of red so on the cheap so but i mean it's incomprehensible now they they literally at winter park had weeds growing on hills ken irvin a defensive back at one point um went to break up a play and went flying into the woods right by the practice field and like fell and hit a tree stump or something like that I mean I mean it's you go out to TCO now and it's like what what are we even talking about but I just wonder if you had given the Wilfs and the way they were going to run the franchise Dante and Moss and they had gone and gotten an OC instead of having poor Loney try to do the offensive line and offensive coordinator job.

I mean, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that you could have made that happen. And if that happens, how much different are things in a short time period? Now, I will say this. If you had kept Moss and Shelters had come in, I don't know how well they mesh at all because Randy's part of what Randy didn't trust and didn't like was he couldn't stand adults for the most part. Like he did, he would do stuff for kids behind the scenes and wouldn't want it out there. He loved kids in and was really did a lot of good things,

but his distrust of adults was so high. And Brad is the type of guy you wouldn't really trust if you were Randy Moss. So I don't know if they hire Childress if it works. I'm just saying if you had gotten the right coach in here, it could have been really interesting to see how it would have evolved differently as opposed to he gets traded, Culpepper gets hurt, now you're drafting Tavares Jackson, and how different it all was because of that. Right. And Moss had his relationship with Denny, which was obviously implicitly. Yes. Right. One of the few people that he could trust. And, you know, that, that not being there anymore,

you even wonder about that, right? Like how much longer did Denny coach in the NFL? He went to Arizona for a while and so forth. It wasn't that much longer. denny coach in the nfl he went to arizona for a while and and so far there wasn't that much longer yeah right um so you wonder i don't know how much longer that would have gone on but that's another part of it of changing coaches and then you know i wonder how much that played into randy and just where his attitude went um because it went sort of from chip on the shoulder to serious problem with Randy Moss, which was, you know, maybe to the point, because my understanding of it always was they kind of had to do it at the time.

But, you know, you're right, though. You see now where organizations, if you don't acquiesce to the players, they just end up traded somewhere else. And we saw that with Stefan Diggs. And if not for Justin Jefferson, oh my God, we would just be talking about Stefan Diggs every day of our lives and what he's done in Buffalo because they couldn't find a way to make him happy.

And so maybe there would have been a little more working with his side. But it's fascinating about how there's this turning point with the ownership changing and how so many things come back to your organization. Now is a lot different than it was back then, just because of the way the ownership pretty much says you guys do whatever you need to do to get the guys on the field. So that's, that is.

And they did try to dig. So there, there wasn't a chance. It was just, it was such a fluid time for the franchise and it was going to, it was ultimately as we have found out after the fact, going to change so much that I just wonder if you had kept that combination. Because, you know, I mean, if Dante doesn't get hurt, and obviously at the start of 2005, you're not assuming he's going to get hurt. And look at the receivers that they had. And the problem, too, is, okay, Diggs gets traded, but they draftedfferson who in a miracle fell to them i don't know how now but fell to them and he is magnificent the difference with moss was they got the seventh overall pick and took troy williamson i think justin jefferson is the football gods paying you

back yeah like you got jeff because jefferson should have been like the seventh pick right right because if they got jaylen reg, we'd be having a different conversation here. Rick Spielman's name is very different to us. If they got a guy like that. Yeah. So teams don't always side with the players now, although the deal that they got back for digs did turn out to be a very good one, getting the first round pick.

But you just see, I do think you just see it more though, more where it's a player as a contract problem or whatever else, if it's somebody important, they're going to find a way. one getting the first round pick but um you just see i do think you just see it more though more where it's a player as a contract problem or whatever else if it's somebody important they're going to find a way uh to work around whatever issues that was not always the case back in the day so um judd this was right down the middle of the plate for you yeah in the vikings what ifs and you hit it out of the park so i I enjoyed it. Great to catch up with you. It'd been a little while since we'd gotten together for a podcast. And now we can also get together for lunch and things like that.

So we need to do that again very soon. Vaccinated and happy. I know. So is Patrick Peterson, according to his podcast. Yes, he is. That's another podcast that I don't do that you can listen to. So anyway, I appreciate you, Judd. Don't worry.

We'll talk again soon, man.