Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Will J.J. McCarthy be a game manager or gunslinger?

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

Matthew Coller answers your Vikings questions including whether KOC is retooling the offense to make McCarthy a game manager, best away trips, and Dallas Turner comps.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Coller here and this is another fans only episode. So if you want to get on this where I answer all fan questions, feel free to shoot me an email, Matthew Coller at Gmail on Twitter at Matthew Coller and hey, sign up for that newsletter, purpleinsider.football. I do a very big Friday mailbag every single week. And if you jump in the DMS, don't send me crypto offers. Send me football questions.

I feel like all social media has turned into the head a little bit. So anyway, all right, lots to talk about. It's a great time of year to get your thoughts and try to project what is coming next for the Minnesota Vikings. So we begin with Steve who says the other day I ran across an article that had a take about the Vikings. I had not seen or heard anywhere else. The writer wrote about how the Vikings are quote, pivoting to a system to help JJ McCarthy become a game manager.

I have a hard time believing this. Have you heard anything like this? What are your thoughts? So number one, if they are pivoting to a different system, first of all, I didn't see that during Minicamp or OTAs and I don't believe that Kevin O'Connell or Wes Phillips or anybody else has said anything about any type of system change. In fact, that doesn't really make any sense at all

because look at last year. Last year, they go into the off-season OTAs, mini camp, training camp, and all that, teaching their system to two quarterbacks, to Sam Darnold and JJ McCarthy. So McCarthy spent the entire spring and summer of 2024 as the QB2 learning Kevin O'Connell's offense. They didn't have the game manager version they downloaded to JJ and then the gunslinger version that they downloaded to Sam Darnold, right? The offense

that Sam Darnold ran last year is the same offense that JJ McCarthy learned last year and that will be carried over to this year with some tweaks and some adjustments and changes from Kevin O'Connell and some updates say from Kevin O'Connell, but it's not a different offense that they're going into. perspective of game planning and of play calling. Maybe those two things you could see in a specific game trying to simplify for JJ McCarthy early in the season or from a play calling perspective. Last year there were times and we talked about it quite a bit where, hey, it's third and 15 and you're winning and there's no reason to throw a 25 yard pass down the field that gets intercepted by the New York Jets. For example, maybe Kevin O'Connell would look at JJ McCarthy very early on in the season and say, how about we just play that one safe and we'll punt it away. But you are not ever going to see Kevin O'Connell with an offense that has a game manager type of quarterback.

Although the definition of game manager is a little bit fuzzy because if you talk to some NFL people, they might say, look, a game manager just means get the football to the right places. Don't make mistakes and run within the system, but it doesn't mean don't throw to a tight window. It doesn't mean don't push the ball downfield. Don't scramble and make a play. I think when we think of game manager,

we all think of an Alex Smith type who can keep the train on the tracks, won't turn it over, won't take too many sacks, but also won't make too many exciting next level type of plays. Underneath stuff, short of the sticks. Like that's how I think of game manager the way it's been used in the media forever. But if you're talking about manage the game as in play point guard,

how many times we heard that in the last couple of years where the plays work and the receivers work. And so you just have to let them right get to the right spots understand when you're supposed to throw the football with the timing and the reads of the defense. And if you manage it that way, you're going to have a lot of success. But I don't think Kevin O'Connell is ever going to switch to a style that's, hey, let's run the football,

first and second down, and then on third down, throw a three yard pass for a first down or something. That's just not Who he is and I saw a chart the other day and I'm not sure who it was to put it out there about the expected points added of different types of plays in football and the best expected points added for what your opportunity to score is Was a 30 or longer yard pass like obviously right and then right next to it is a 30 or longer yard pass, like obviously, right? And then right next to it is a 20 or longer yard pass. Kevin O'Connell has always believed in downfield passing

and explosive plays, and he's going to continue to do that. But that doesn't mean they want everything on JJ McCarthy's shoulders. They don't want him sitting there at second and 14 all the time because they can't run. They don't want to be throwing 43 passes like does that make him a game manager? If you'd rather throw 27 passes in a game for 250 yards or 230 yards and win 28 to 17. Like, of course, every team wants to play from ahead and allow their quarterback to just manage the game. But I thought even Sam Darnold did a great job of managing the game last year,

but that often meant taking shots down the field when it was appropriate to do so. I do not see this offense changing at all, and I do think that J.J. McCarthy is going to have a lot on his shoulders. But what we have to remember as we're talking about this is that JJ McCarthy is not a first year quarterback. And if you look at say Bo Nicks early in the season last year for Denver, a first year quarterback, there was a ton of screen passes, a ton of short stuff for the Denver Broncos, one of the shortest average depths of target. And then as he went along, it expanded out and I don't see the Vikings doing that. I don't see them starting out with a, let's throw slants.

Let's throw screens. Let's throw bubbles and stuff like that. No, I don't think so. These are downfield passing concepts that are made to get guys open over the middle of the field with posts routes, crossing routes, play actions that take shots. So I don't see that it's going to be a lot different. And also, Hey, by the way, why would it be different?

I mean, you just took a Sam Darnold who had been one of the bigger busts in the NFL over the last 20 years. That was his reputation, considering his talent, his draft stock, and then made him into a 14-win quarterback. And of course, he deserves a ton of credit because he had to make the throws. And Justin Jefferson deserves a ton of credit, and so does Jordan Addison for making the catches.

But the offense that they just used took a quarterback who was basically unproven in his career and had been a backup and had him succeed like that. Why would you go back and say, you know what? Nah, I don't know. I'm just going to do a different with the next guy. No, I think they're going to do it a lot the same. Here's the difference though.

And the next question alludes to this. So I won't go too far down the rabbit hole on this, but the difference is. And really, if you think about it, they played like this in the first five games of the season where their defense was so good, they could run the ball a lot. But the difference might be that the team is just stronger overall, especially on the ground. And over 17 games, not just the first part of the season

before Darasaw got hurt, you might be able to consistently run and put McCarthy into situations where he doesn't have to play Superman, as Sam Darnold did so often down the stretch. That also went for interior pressure that Darnold faced all the time last year and pressure off the left side after Cam Robinson got there and then wore down as the season went along and so did Blake Brandle. That was a lot that Darnold had to carry through that 14-win season. What they're hoping to do with the way that they have constructed the roster this year is not have to ask

JJ McCarthy to do that. And I usually joke, you guys have heard me say before, that hey, if there's some debate on television of is JJ McCarthy actually good or is it just his supporting cast? That means great things for your football team, right? That means you're good. It means your roster is good. It means your coach is good.

Well, I think the same thing about the words game manager. If you hear some NFL analysts on TV yelling at the camera, screaming, McCarthy's just a game manager for this team. He's not a superstar in this league. Well, that probably means you're running the ball really well you're playing really good defense and that McCarthy doesn't have to be a hero and I don't conflate the two though I think it's different between what a game manager is versus somebody who has to put everything on their shoulders to make it work as Darnold really did down the stretch and ultimately collapse because of it.

Hopefully that makes sense. All right. Next question does talk about this a little bit from Robert says with the addition of Jordan Mason and a new interior offensive line, I can imagine the Vikings reinventing themselves, especially early in the season as McCarthy finds his feet as a run first clock chewing, mauling possession offense that will still regularly air it out and spread the field, but somewhat less frequently,

maybe with greater effectiveness. Added benefit is that they only keep the defense that much more fresh and dominant. I know this is against KOC's tendencies, but his most overriding tendency might be recognizing the need to nurture his young quarterback. Is this crazy?

No, it's not because every single coach in every single team in the league, except for maybe, you know, Baltimore and Buffalo and Kansas City, but even Kansas City, I should take them off this list. Maybe Cincinnati. Every team and every coach would love to do what Jim Harbaugh did at Michigan and hand off all the time, play unbelievable defense, and just win a championship that way. It doesn't work so often in the NFL

except for what the Philadelphia Eagles did. And they did exactly what you're talking about, which was completely dominate in the ground game. And then every so often they had to hit some big plays with Jalen Hurts down the field to AJ Brown or Devontae Smith. And then their defense was mauling as you mentioned. They stay off the field

because Saquon's running it all the time. It is a great strategy if you can do it. And I think what the Vikings would like is more shades of that, more possessions of that, where you're saying, wait, how many times did they even throw on that possession? Oh, they ran six times and JJ McCarthy threw three passes and they ended up with a touchdown?

That's something that we just have not seen from the Minnesota Vikings very often over the last couple of years under Kevin O'Connell. It is more, and I referenced Kevin Stefanski, but it's more all the time, you know, with Stefanski's 2019 offense, because it was so good when they could get Delvin Cook running and they could run play actions.

And so I always kind of go back to that because they had this ultimate quarterback offense with running and screens and defense. And there were very few times where the quarterback had to, as we were just discussing, play hero and be the guy who's throwing for 400 yards and trying to out duel the other quarterback. You don't really wanna play that way,

especially with the quarterbacks that are on this schedule. You don't wanna be going up against Joe Burrow in what is that, week three. You don't wanna be going up against Joe Burrow and saying, hey, both of us are going to throw for 400. Let's see who wins. He'll probably win. That's what he has been doing for his entire career. So every team wants to be able to keep their defense fresh, run the football, have longer drives, and then mix in the downfield passing that you're talking about. And it will be very interesting to see how Kevin O'Connell mixes and matches and balances this. Because while I do not think that he's going to try to cuddle or bring along slowly or game manage with J.J. McCarthy,

I also think that if something's working, he's got to stick with it. And there have been times in the past where I felt like the running is working. Just keep running, you'll win the game. You're already leading. Because Brian Flores' defense gets sacked, takes the ball away. And especially early in the season

when Flores is cooking up new stuff. I mean, a lot of times all you have to do is stay on the field, give them a chance to rest, keep plugging away and getting first downs and things like that. In your brain, theoretically, it just makes so much sense because it's great football to watch. It's not the prettiest as downfield passing is all the time, but it's dominant football to watch when you can pull that off.

And with Mason, Aaron Jones, the rebuild offensive line, Josh Oliver is still here. You can do it from time to time a lot more than you can in the past. I don't know if the Vikings have the horses to be Philadelphia or to be the Baltimore Ravens where, okay, they're just going to have whole game plans where they just run over people and it's going to be incredible. I think it's balanced. I think what the offense is, is going to have whole game plans where they just run over people and it's going to be incredible. I think it's balanced. I think what the offense is is going to be balanced where outside of little sections of Kevin O'Connell's time here, I don't think it ever really has been at the beginning of last year it was,

but a lot of that was while they're up big in a game, they get an interception from CJ Stroud right away and they're ahead in a game and they're playing from ahead or they get ahead of the Packers and they're running because they're ahead. But in the even circumstances at seven here seven there how often have they really been that 50-50 type of team where the opponent is concerned about your running game and then you could play off it with the passing game and they don't really have to just rest on the quarterback all the time. So I think what you're talking about is really Kevin O'Connell having more options in his bag here and you can isolate single little times throughout his time, but not consistently week after week where they actually have built a roster now that should be able to do that. So fundamentally, I don't think he's changing up the offense to say, you know what, I'm going to be Jim Harbaugh and I'm going to throw 400 passes

and we're only going to turn the ball over three times all year and we're just going to run every single play. Like, I don't think that's going to happen, but I do think that at least being able to say, Oh, Hey, I'm up 10 points in the third quarter. I can just lean on Jordan Mason here and wind out seven minutes of that clock. That might be in their bag this year. Okay, next question comes from at Baseball Norm on Twitter,

says, not the sexy thing to talk about with special teams, but how do you handicap the punt and kick return options with some core special team guys gone from last year? How does that depth chart look? Yeah, I was just working on an article about this baseball norm and sorry if you're a twins fan baseball norm, it's not going great. And I was having the same trouble probably as you looking at the roster

and when we were watching practices going, who is it going to be? And Matt Daniels was really interesting to listen to at the podium the other day because it sounded like he was pleading for Isaiah Rogers to get his chance as a kick returner. Matt Daniels said something like, well, last year when you looked at the data, it was really a kick returner two who got hurt more often than kick returner one. I was like, okay, I know what you at the data, it was really a kick returner too, who got hurt more often than kick returner one. I was like, OK, I know what you're doing here, Matt. You're trying to get Isaiah Rogers back there because Rogers for his career is average over twenty seven yards per return. He's been good and he's taken one to the house before.

He's got a lot of experience doing it. And by the way, runs like a four, three or a little bit less a few years ago. So, I mean, when you're talking about four, three type of speed back there, fluid movement, I mean, he's really something to watch move around. I can see why Brian Flores is intrigued by Isaiah Rogers. But if he is your CB to a starting cornerback next to Byron Murphy Jr. with Mackay Blackman mixing in and your depth is a little questionable now I'm pretty high on Dwight McClothern but we haven't seen him play there's

not a whole lot of veteran presence that are behind those top three corners do you want to put your cornerback number two at any extra risk I mean even if it's only 30 kick returns over the year every single one of them represents an opportunity for Isaiah Rogers to get banged up. So if not him, then who? Then, well, Ty Chandler certainly comes to mind. He has a lot fewer returns than I thought in his career because he's always back there,

but he's only actually returned 12 times. And he had one that was a touchdown that got called back for maybe an erroneous holding penalty or something like that. But he's only returned the ball 12 times in his career. His average is fine. It's right where you'd expect a round league average, maybe a little bit less. But if Chandler is going to stick on this roster, I think he has to be that guy, right? I think he has to be the guy who wins the kick return or one job.

Beyond that, Rondale Moore interests me, Silas Bolden is another guy who interests me that I think could win a job on this roster purely based on just kick and punt returning, and then do you give Jalen Naylor a shot at some of these things? He is wide receiver three, that's very important. Same sort of way as Isaiah Rogers.

Maybe he's a little better at protecting himself because he's a ball carrier by trade. I still would be a little nervous about that though. I would much prefer see that role be a third string backup like Ty Chandler or Silas Bolden where it's your only job is just to return kicks. And if that person gets hurt, you can send somebody else back there

and you're not suffering consequences that go beyond just what happens on the field. So Chandler would be probably my first pick. And then, all right, let's say they're down 14 points in the fourth quarter, other teams kicking off. Let Isaiah Rogers get a shot. See if he could take one to the house. See if he can make some game-changing play

That I'd be okay with but game after game after game the extra punishment and playing every snap is a corner Yeah, I don't like the sound of that But there's some other guys too that could be in the mix Rondale more is another one Rondale more Did kick returning for Arizona when he was a rookie wasn't very good, but it was only 13 kick returns. He's got that lightning quickness to him, that shiftiness, that speed, that made him a second round draft pick. I know he's coming off an injury,

but this is an opportunity for him to put himself a little bit ahead in the race. And then the deep, deep cut of guy that might have a chance is Miles Price. That's going deep on the roster. From Indiana, was a good punt returner, not a whole lot of experience kick returning. Maybe he'll get a shot back there or maybe it's someone that we don't even know right now.

That is something we will definitely be watching during training camp. It's a great question, Baseball Norm. And you know what? You say it's not sexy, but it is for this show my friend Special teams are sexy for this show. All right. This one comes from at Phil and Cinderella and I'm sorry Phil. I'm butchering your name Phil. This one comes from Phil is QB to an RB three on the roster right now? I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say yes.

The RB3 one is where I hesitate because I go back and forth and any given day you could convince me of either one. I was just talking about how I think Ty Chandler wins that returning job. If he wins the returning job then he's RB3 and they're going to need him. And at very least, even though he has not earned the trust of Kevin O'Connell If he wins the returning job, then he's RB3 and they're going to need him. And at very least, even though he has not earned the trust of Kevin O'Connell over the last couple of years, he still has been with Kevin O'Connell's offense for the last few years.

And if I'm not mistaken, Camaker signed somewhere else, but maybe he'll show up for a conditional seventh round pick at some point. And they've done that when they haven't liked something in training camp or early in the season they will go out and make a move and acquire somebody else. We could absolutely see that it might depend on just how it's going during training camp for Ty Chandler but he has been here for multiple seasons he has shown explosiveness and playmaking ability if he can get the details a little bit better just to stay on the roster and be a kick returner, he can be RB3. As far as QB2 goes, I think Sam Howell will win this job, but it's really up to Sam Howell. There's nobody else on this roster

who's going to take it. Max Brosmer could be QB3, but you're not going into a season like this with an undrafted free agent from the Gophers, no disrespect, but an undrafted free agent to be your backup quarterback. You don't want to be one play away from having a UDFA have to try to save your season. You would much rather have someone who's got experience playing in the NFL before

and has played under the pressure of the National Football League for an entire season like Sam Howell has. I think he would have to really, really struggle throughout the summer for them to go get someone else because they acquire him at the draft and they're getting him involved in the offense and getting him to know the offense all throughout this spring. It's a big time for quarterbacks and then you're going to, at the last minute, pull the cord. And here's why it's different than when they went and got Nick Mullins is Kirk Cousins

was the quarterback then his record for health was incredible until he tore the Achilles, but his whole career. I mean, the guy never missed games ever except for the one in what 2021. But aside from that, I mean, he had this starting streak that went on and on so you thought okay well Nick Mullins is going to have time to get here get the offense going and everything else and I also think that they knew that whoever was the backup that year Mond or Mannion or Mullins they were in so much trouble if there was an injury that they probably weren't going to win anyway so why not make that move but know, in this case with Sam Howell, he has won some games in the NFL. He's got a much better supporting cast than he's ever had before.

And if you get him going with the offense now, at very least, he might be able to win two out of four games if he is called upon, which to me is always the sign of a good backup quarterback. So I'm going to say yes to both with a higher confidence rating that Sam Howell is the backup than the Ty Chandler is RB three. Okay. Next question comes from Zimmer's bad eye. Come on. Oh, that's funny. What road games are you planning on attending this year? And what's your favorite road stadium that you've been to so far as far as road games? That I'm planning on going to definitely Seattle. I mean the Sam Darnold game

That's gonna be cool. I think unless you know, one of the teams is a total disaster being maybe Seattle then maybe I would reconsider I always go to the NFC North games There were years past where I didn't go to Detroit because it was Detroit. Now you gotta go to Detroit. And I'll be going to all those games, especially the Detroit game. I mean, it should be really something after what happened there last year.

But of course, Lambeau never gonna pass up that opportunity. Chicago is one of the least accommodating press boxes, but you know, Soldier Field, let's go, not a far flight. And then Los Angeles Thursday night football. The buzz in there is going to be really fascinating to see Jim Harbaugh versus Kevin O'Connell, two really good teams with high aspirations. Absolutely headed to that one. And I have never been to Dallas before.

The last time they played them in Dallas, 2020 maybe, 2020, 2019? It feels like it's been a really long time since they have played at Jerry World. So I have not been there either. And I would really, really like to see that stadium. As far as my favorite ones to go to, Lambeau Field has to be up there.

Of course, they don't leave you short on food, sausages everywhere, you know, that sort of thing, because why not? They're Green Bay. But they're it. Look, nobody likes this in the Viking land. But you all make that trip down there and you go to those games and you know this. There's Mystique. It's really cool. The bleachers, the go pack, go the, you know, the messy field and all that.

I mean, it's history. So that's always cool to see. And San Francisco was great. I should say Santa Clara because they do not play anywhere near San Francisco, but San Jose, Santa Clara, San Francisco, 49ers was a really huge press box, great food. And you're going to hate this answer too. One of my favorite places to go is Philadelphia.

I'm sorry. It's true. It's true. And it's, you know, maybe some memories from Vikings fans there from 2017 that are not so good, but the food that they have, the press box angle, we are stuffed in the middle of the fan so they can turn around and bang on the press box, which is kind of cool actually because they're such a crazy fan base. They wear all these old school jerseys. You see Randall Cunningham and Jerome Brown

and Reggie White and Brian Westbrook and all this stuff. The passion and insanity of that fan base. Now I'm not down in the stands getting a beer bottle thrown at me. So I again have a different perspective, but yeah, I like that one. Maybe I should have a different perspective, but yeah, I like that one. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe I should have adjusted the answer from the truth, but it's the truth that being inside that press box,

where it's located in Philadelphia is really something. And Hey, when Lin-Val Joseph intercepted a pass and ran it back for a touchdown, I had an amazing view right on top, watching him scoot at what 18 miles an hour with his 350 pound body back for a touchdown. So not all the memories there for Vikings fans are bad. Yeah. So I mean, look, every year I get super excited about the travel, new cities, new stadiums. I haven't checked off every single one off of my list for my career. So I'm getting closer and it'll be another good year for that.

As of this moment, not planning on going to Dublin or London. Guess we'll see. Need more subscribers for that newsletter. Maybe we can try. All right. Next question comes from smart guy Ryan on Twitter. How willing would the Vikings be to keep a developmental player like Logan Brown on the roster? The upside could be crazy? Well, you're right about that that Logan Brown. I think does have upside He's talking about the undrafted free agent offensive guard or is he a tackle offensive lineman? We'll see if he plays guard or tackle depends

but the upside for him be based on his athletic profile, is very, very good. And when we try to figure out what upside is, as you're talking about, usually that's how we're doing it is, well, how athletic is the guy? How good could he really be if everything clicks in? And I think a lot of folks thought that Brown had the skill to be a draft pick and just fell through the cracks or there was something off the field or whatever they may have played into it. But the Vikings have been excellent at finding this type of player. Ivan Pace highlights that list, but Dwight McClothern talking about him. We're talking about Bo Richter. We're talking about Gabriel Murphy.

Like they have been able to find these guys where you go, you know what? I could actually see it with this undrafted free agent guy and Logan Brown might be one of those players. The thing about keeping him on the roster though is you kind of don't need to. So if you have developed a player and he's a backup for you like Blake Brandle and you cut Blake Brandle, someone will pick up Blake Brandle. And you're not sending him to waivers to the practice squad like you are with rookies.

You're just, you'd be straight up cutting him. Hard to get him to the practice squad after that, if he could sign with anybody because he's got experience. Whereas a Logan Brown, the only people that really know what he looks like behind the scenes in practice are the Minnesota Vikings. And that's why you just rarely see guys getting poached in all the time that I've been covering the team. I think Elijah Lee is the only guy I remember ever getting poached. And he was a linebacker from K state

by San Francisco. And he was, I think a sixth round draft pick, but how many times does it ever happen? And with the bigger practice squads, I mean, everybody's keeping their guys these days. Last year, I remember cut down day, there was a lot of arguing, how can they cut this guy? How can they cut that guy? And those guys are setting up on the team. So unless somebody really dominates in training camp and preseason and catches the eye of other teams around the league on tape and And maybe the Vikings get the sense.

And I think this was maybe McClothern last year, if I'm not mistaken. I think McClothern made the team out of camp last year, maybe in part because there was so much buzz about how well he was playing that they were concerned that someone else would pick him up. And it's, you know, hey, if you have joint practices, the other team sees somebody great. You're always that little bit of risk that you could have those guys poached, but it happens so rarely.

My point is that he sounds like a perfect guy to develop during this time of year, put on that practice squad, have him work his way up there, and then we'll see what happens because I do agree that the upside is high, but also development is so necessary in the NFL. This team actually has depth on the offensive line. It is a rare thing in the NFL, but Brandle is as good of a swing guard as you're going to find someone who started 17 games and for about half of them was pretty good. It wasn't until Cam Robinson came in that he really struggled. I mean, that's pretty good to have as a backup.

Uh, Justin School has played before and had some success. Walter Rouse is developing. Michael Juergens is developing. You get to the point where you go, well, how would they fit anybody else? But if Brown is so great, then yeah, maybe he does make the team every year. Somebody does. You just don't know who it's going to be. Uh, at as you guys in your Twitter names at Nerple perp says, who has the best

chance for Mr. Mankato? Come on, man. Uh, two, two of these just stopping me in my tracks. The best chance for Mr. Mankato. Well, that's a good one. Usually we look at skill players first. All right, who's going to catch touchdowns in preseason? If you catch touchdowns in preseason, then you're going to have a great shot. I would probably start that conversation at Gavin Bartholomew slash Titan 3 whoever, because there is a competition there between him, Ben Urisak and Bryson Nesbit. Urisak is kind of a bigger guy and Nesbit is kind of a faster

guy and Bartholomew is more of a really good athlete who's got great size can go up and get it. But if you're a sixth round tight end you catch two or three touchdowns in the preseason. Oh, yeah, you're getting that Mr. Mankato hype. Aside from that though. I mean, there's not a lot of rookies to talk about.

So it is kind of wide open for any of these undrafted free agents. I'm thinking about any undrafted free agent outside linebacker. You show up the Tyler Batty. I know a lot of you are very interested in Tyler Batty because it's coming out of BYU. He's a more developed player than you usually get as a rookie. It's got unique size production, athleticism, and probably just wasn't drafted because he's older, but he had a really good NFL combine. Like he's somebody that could put his name on the list.

I would also throw Tyreon Ingram Dawkins out there. That's someone that they have clearly shown some liking to early on, and if he gets in the backfield, if he gets a couple of sacks, makes a couple of plays, then all of a sudden we could be talking about Tyreon Ingram Dawkins But I think it's a very very wide open crop the deepest of deep guy might be a Trey Stewart Undrafted free agent Jacksonville's state quick guy undersized. He runs for a couple touchdowns He puts up 120 yards in a game. Well, we might be talking about Trey Stewart, especially if he makes any sort of noise for a roster spot. It is. Yeah, this one's a hard one to put numbers on and even Kobe King.

Kobe King is a big old linebacker makes some, you know, tackles for loss. Get an interception. The Audi Cole interception that people still talk about from 10 years ago. It's this is this is like, look, what I've tried to do in the past is just embrace every single time of year. Like I embrace this time of year where we can talk about this stuff and kick our heels back, embrace the training camp part. And Mr. Mankato is such a fun part of it to see who emerges and surprises us. So I can't wait. Nerp. I can't wait.

This question comes from Big Rose 9 says pony package to running backs. Liam Cohen ran this the most in the league last year with a 55 to 65% success rate. Do you see this as something the Vikings could do this season? I mean, look, the era that I grew up in, they used to do this and they would call a guy a fullback, but he was really a running back. I mean, Tom Rathmann is one of the great fullbacks of all time, but that dude was a running back. He would catch a ton of balls. They can hand it off to him. We give you a few other examples for all of those, you know, maybe Gen X slash old millennials. How about Kimball Anders and Marcus Allen for the Kansas City Chiefs? They used to hand off a lot. Larry centers would get the football on handoffs for the Arizona Cardinals and he caught a ton of passes. They would use that type of position, yeah, it's a fullback, but it's

also really a running back spot that touches the football a lot. William Floyd for the San Francisco 49ers was another one, big old number 40. And how about this one, a guy that this show always loves is Mike Alstotz. He was a fullback-ish first, but when he was paired with Warke Dunn, that's just two running backs and one dude's bigger than the other. And I don't see it for the Vikings. I don't see it. Now Jordan Mason is that guy. Like he's that size, but I, I'm not sure that I see it because when you look at the personnel, if you're going to do that, you have to take somebody else off. And who are you taking off to do that? Are you taking TJ Hawkinson off the field?

Are you taking Jalen Naylor off the field? Are you just running a package where it's one wide receiver and Josh Oliver and two running backs and then somebody might have to block and I don't think Jordan Mason is a blocker because all the guys I named for you. Well, they were dynamic with the football in their hands. The Kimball Anders, the Larry centers, every single one of those guys could also run with the football. And I've never seen this from the Rams other than as you mentioned, like Liam

Cohen doing it. He was Rams adjacent, but I never saw that from McVeigh. I've never seen it from O'Connell. Now with that said, so I'd be surprised. I'd be very surprised. With that said, I love it. I love the idea. I love the idea for say five plays a game for the other team to be like, what the heck? Why are both running backs on the field at the same time? And then you can run a lot of different stuff. Maybe you have like that old school. I like to play tech mobile still sometimes and there's a package on tech mobile with the most. When I say recent, I mean the last edition of tech mobile like 1994, but there's one of their sets where you get both of your

running backs on the field and one's on the left and the others on the right out of the shotgun and a lot of times the defense doesn't know which way you're going or which one of those running backs if they did it occasionally I think it would be great but I just don't see it happening often in the same way that I guess Liam Cohen did I didn't realize that he did it that much I do think it causes some unique problems for the defense and again I like it I like it more skilled players on the field more packages that make it difficult for the defense like do it more skilled players on the field, more packages that make it difficult for the defense, like do it more creativity, do it. And here's the thing, here's why I like this even more.

So this is a good idea because Aaron Jones is a wide receiver. There are very few running backs in the NFL that I would say, look, if somebody, if four people got hurt and you said, Aaron Jones is gonna have to play wide receiver today, I think he could do it. I think he could catch five passes as a slot wide receiver in the NFL if he had to do it so let's say you got this package with Addison Jefferson

two running backs and you motion Aaron Jones into the slot or something you're causing some problems there for the defense I I like it. I want to see it. I don't think we will, but I want to. This one comes from Carter Ivan 68. I know a long time listener to the show. So Ivan, appreciate you, man. Says, if Dallas Turner maxes out, his historical comp is who? Cornelius Bennett's question mark.

Oh man, you shot very high on that, Ivan. Cornelius Bennett was question mark. Oh man, you shot very high on that Ivan. Cornelius Bennett was a guy right at the top of the draft, came right into the NFL, picked up a ton of sacks, but played this hybrid position. So this is where I see where you're going with that, is that Cornelius Bennett was not a pure pass rusher. He was a multifaceted type of player who could get eight, 9, 10 sacks, but

also drop back in coverage, get interceptions, blitz, stop the run, like an all around really probably underrated player historically, but really, really good. And that gave offenses fits because they never knew where he was going to be when he was going to. I mean, look, this is a great part about football, right? It changes, but it doesn't. And a player like Cornelius Bennett, I see it. I see where you're going with it. If I'm shooting a little bit lower than that, because I think Bennett was one of the best players

of an entire era, I might go with a Melvin Ingram. Remember Melvin Ingram a few years ago was really, really good for the San Diego slash Los Angeles Chargers. Undersized guy drafted in almost the same position as Dallas Turner. I think he was 18th overall and it was not 250 pounds. Lightning quick took some time to develop lightning quick and under a certain defense in Los Angeles slash San Diego, he dropped back in coverage quite a bit and had to win with his quickness, had to get bigger as his career went along, had to learn how to win against offensive

tackles, but was a really really good pass rusher through his career. I think he maxed out probably a double digit sack season or two, lived in that seven to ten type of range, but he had versatility and could do a lot of different things. I think that, I mean you said maxes out his talent, I mean yeah okay if he maxes out his talent, but he is the 17th overall pick, he wasn't the number one overall pick which we treat it like sometimes, so there's some development to go. But that's the first thing that came to mind for me for looking at a similar body type, similar usage, and then let's not shoot for the absolute moon.

Okay, if he maxes out, any player I guess could be really great when they're a first round draft pick, but that's the guy that came to mind for me. All right, two more. Ben says, is it bold to say the Packers will miss the playoffs? I'm questioning how good Love can be, and I don't think Matt LaFleur is a good crisis manager.

Oh, that's, yeah, that's an interesting observation. I do think that there's an edge in the NFC North for two of the coaches over the other two when it comes to their personality. That is Dan Campbell and Kevin O'Connell. These guys manage locker rooms incredibly where we'll find out about Ben Johnson. He is starting for the very first time as a head coach and I don't know yet.

I can't handicap that one, but I don't think that Matt LaFleur has the same type of connection as Kevin O'Connell to his locker room and to his players. Maybe that's just that both of those guys were former players and they really get how to reach current players. But I think there's something special that those guys have that maybe Matt LaFleur does not. But what Matt LaFleur does not have in personality, he does have in schematics. He I think is as good as it gets for tying the run to the pass

and for understanding what Jordan Love can do and what he can't do. And last year, when they had some wide receivers injured, I thought it hurt them. Thought it really hurt them when Jordan Love himself was playing injured and was not at a hundred percent was maybe limited or not quite as accurate as he could be. I still think that Jordan Love is a very good quarterback. I know I would not put him at top five, but I think he's very good and he can get you into the playoffs year after year.

The question is can he take you any farther? But in this division, when we go through the rosters, I think there are two teams that stand way out ahead. And then the Packers are there along with the Bears. Love might be better, might not be better than Caleb Williams. We don't know that yet. But I don't think it's silly to say that they could miss the playoffs. I mean, really, I mean, any team can miss the playoffs.

Things go wrong. And even the teams that are favored to win the Super Bowl can have that happen. But if you go into this year and you're telling all your friends at Packers, it's not going to happen this year. I don't think anyone laughs you out of a bar for saying that because where is the superstar talent on the Green Bay Packers? Got a lot of good players, and a lot of great players,

and that kind of goes for the quarterback. I'm not sure about Matt Golden yet. Maybe he'll become a great player, we just don't know, but the other wide receivers, a lot of good. A lot of guys you take on your team throughout that entire roster, but not a lot of guys you'd build your team around, whereas you go to Detroit and you go, okay, well there's eight guys you'd build your team around. Whereas you go to Detroit and you go, okay, well, there's eight guys.

I'd build the team around, go to Minnesota. There's seven guys. You build the team around even in Chicago. There's three or four. I just don't know that there's as many. And I'm not saying Chicago will finish higher than them, but in a such a tough division, if this was an average division, I'd say, I don't know, man, I think they'll make the playoffs, but it's not, and it's going to be a

very hard schedule as well. All right. Last question is Bradley P says, what's most concerning about the 2025 Vikings? Hmm. It's hard to distill it because I know a lot of you just said the kickers because it's the Vikings and the secondary. I know that you, that's what you said in your heads. You said kickers first because you like the Vikings. And then the second you went like, Oh, secondary is concerning to me. I think what it is for me is that there's a lot of bets that were made that aren't maybe necessarily more than 70% bets. So here's what I mean. Is they're betting on Jonathan Allen, Javon Hargrave being some version of themselves.

They're betting on Ryan Kelly being some version of himself. They're betting on Mackay Blackman coming back and playing more snaps. They're betting on Isaiah Rogers having never really been a starter and then taking a step forward. They're betting on Theo Jackson never being a starter and then just becoming one and being good. They're betting on Jonathan Grenard and Andrew Van Ginkle playing similar amounts of snaps. Betting on a next step for Dallas Turner. Betting on Aaron Jones staying healthy.

A lot of these things are I think more of like toward coin flips and the thing that would concern me the most is that Sometimes if you take out a coin you can do this at home take out a coin flip it a hundred times you'll be amazed that sometimes you hit ten heads in a row and The seasons that have gone wrong for the Vikings in the past is where they've had 10 heads in a row. Where it's just this went wrong and this went wrong and this went wrong and this went wrong and they lost every game that was a field goal game and there you go. And Mike Zimmer's fired in 2021. I was thinking about the 2021 season the other day and how close they were to being like a really good team that year.

Just go back. Here's an example. And this is more of a general thing. And let me go through each one since we have time just with those bets. But in 2021, they lost the first game in overtime. They lost on a fumble that wasn't. They lost the second game on a short field goal that Greg Joseph missed, the only field goal between 30 and 40 yards he's ever missed in his entire career.

They lost to Cleveland after a terrible performance by Baker Mayfield, but Cleveland needed a key, what third down and 20 handoff or something for a first down in that game. And the Vikings had a touchdown taken off the board or I think Cleveland got another chance and then scored a touchdown or something like that it was referee involved in that game. And they could have been easily for no to start the season and then when they play cooper rush and then dallas cowboys. Rashad brie linn has a pass hit off his hands and go right into the hands of cd lamb they should have closed out that game otherwise if just knocks the ball down, as opposed to popping it up like a volleyball player, and then that's like five wins that they just could have had.

And that can happen at any time in the NFL. And look, 2023 was that way. Should have won in Cincinnati, if not for this insane tush push with Brandon Powell. And a fumble by Alexander Madison, as they're pretty much dominating the Denver Broncos and a wide open Justin Jefferson, the Nick Mullins, Mrs. The edges and the margins are so thin that if things don't go your way and some of the bets you

may don't pay, then there you go. And you would think that the number one, it's funny because I didn't even say J.J. McCarthy. Obviously, J.J. McCarthy not being the guy is the biggest concern. And yet, from everything I've seen from him, I don't feel like that's the biggest concern for me. It's more of just the and KOC and Jefferson, etc. I think it's just the accumulation of those other things that if Dallas Turner doesn't let's just I laid out like nine things let's just say half of them go completely wrong like Dallas Turner can't play and Which I again, I don't think that's gonna happen, but it could Let's say that he doesn't work out and Isaiah Rogers isn't a very good starter and Theo Jackson isn't that great and Harrison Smith?

At his age eventually hits the wall. And then all of a sudden the secondary is very, very vulnerable. And Van Ginkle and Grenard have to battle injuries after last year playing so many snaps and maybe Aaron Jones is slowed. Like if five or six of those things come together against this schedule, it could be really, really hard to make the playoffs to be a great team. Again, I think that everybody who is as hyped up as I've seen Vikings fans ever since I've been covering the team,

I think you're justifiably so. And I kind of have a rule in the off season, like don't ever talk about injuries. Come on, I mean, just who knows, right? You never know. Aaron Jones was supposed to get hurt last year, according to everybody when he signed and then he played 17 games.

So I don't do that. But there's always that in the air when you go into an NFL season that sometimes the football gods just come down and say not this time. And I think that would be the biggest concern for me. It's not one thing. It's just that there's a world where five or six things go wrong, and there isn't a lot of margin for error. And this would be like Cincinnati last year. Cincinnati is a really good team last year, but their defense fell apart and they lost every close game and somebody's fired. And now I don't think it's going to go that way.

I think when I'm projecting and I've actually upped my win total after what I saw on OTAs and mini camp, I think they win 11 or 12 games and that they're going to go into the playoffs being talked about as one of those teams that could really make a difference. But if you're asking specifically to end the show on the concerns, that's probably how I would answer it. It's kind of not one specifically. It's a little bit of concern about a lot of things, put it that way.

But that's what makes football so interesting is all the moving parts at once. So great questions today, guys. I really appreciate all of the discussion and all the folks who send me questions every single week to answer on these fans only podcasts. Thanks so much. And we'll see y'all soon.

Football.