Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Will Kirk Cousins be aggressive against the Packers?

Episode Date: September 9, 2022

Matthew Coller and Will Ragatz of Sports Illustrated dive into some interesting comments from Kirk Cousins regarding aggressiveness and Justin Jefferson/Adam Thielen both admitted that learning the offense has been a little tricky. What will that mean for Week 1? Plus the best matchups and whether Lewis Cine not starting Week 1 matters. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with Will Raggetts of Sports Illustrated. Will, what an exciting time in our lives. We are just days away and you are the lucky gentleman that gets to do the hardest core of hardcore Vikings Packers previews. Are you jacked up? Oh, I'm beyond jacked out. It's been a long grind from, you know, free agency, the draft OTAs training camp, and it all, it all leads to the actual football games that we love covering and writing about and analyzing. And in this case, previewing with the Vikings taking on the Packers on Sunday. I just, I think it's so fascinating because like for all we've talked about this

Vikings team and everything that's going on, we don't really know what to expect. And I'm so curious to see what it actually looks like on Sunday. So yeah, I'm fired up. You want to reflect real quick. You want to think, think back on the days between my gosh,

is it a lot of days between i mean i mean it is nine months how does that even work mathematically that it can go that long without an actual football game that matters but it has for the minnesota vikings i mean we went through let's see kirk is going to get traded rumors. Baker Mayfield thought he was getting traded for Kirk. Jim Harbaugh almost worked here. Ryan Poles almost worked here. We had Daniil Hunter. Oh, they've got to make a big decision.

Actually, they're not going to make a big decision. We had introductory press conferences. We had the general manager acknowledging that the quarterback wasn't that good in an article. I mean, we have just really run the gauntlet of things that are completely offseason, wrapped up with someone picking the quarterback as the MVP, being like the final headline as we go into the season. We have done it all. I'm a draft night. The trading down and the is Kweesi using too many analytics or not enough we don't even know because no one even knows what a draft chart is like incredible stuff this

offseason it's been a journey the uh the head coach acknowledged in a press conference not actually that long ago that uh the center isn't very good and then proceeded to do nothing about it uh so that center is still going to be the center against kenny clark and company on sunday but yeah you you hit i think most of the highlights from what's been a a very long off season and yeah the jim harbaugh one being the most bizarro like that was there was reporting from like somewhat credible people that that was like close to happening um and it would just be our world would be so credible people that that was like close to happening. And it would just be,

our world would be so much different if that was the case, we would be getting all kinds of Bible metaphors and like the Vikings might have two different quarterbacks that they were playing in alternating games like Michigan's doing right now. But yeah, I think overall it's, it's all leading up to this and it's fun to kind of look, look in the past. And now we're ready for the real thing.

Has anyone asked Jim Harbaugh what he thinks of the queen passing away? I just can only imagine what his response is. I will say that from a perspective of the team, I'm sure that the ownership and the players appreciate that Kevin O'Connell has less juicy quotes. But from our perspective, it would have been a wild ride with Jim Harbaugh that every day there would have been something absolutely nuts. Now we are all kind of going crazy over Matt Daniels saying he was salivating over Jalen Rager. But that would have been a two out of 10 in comparison to whatever Jim Harbaugh

would have given us by now. Also, I mean, all the quarterback draft stuff where every one of us, I think, thought two or three quarterbacks or more were going in the first round, and then it was only Kenny Pickett. So then do we question the Vikings for not taking Kenny Pickett, or what do we do with this? Because there was so much discussion. And even at the very end, people were mock drafting Malik Willis to the Vikings and he ended up, you know, to be nowhere close. So it is. And then, you know, the practices and the joint practices and the tough practices, which is actually where I want to begin, Will, because I'm not I don't want to put words in the mouths of Justin

Jefferson and Adam Thielen, but I just got done with their press conferences here before we're recording this. And both of them acknowledge that it's been a long, hot summer for everybody on the offense. And Adam Thielen said that this offense is far more complicated than the ones of recent years. And now there are lots that you could scrutinize about that but adam phelan and justin jefferson have had a pretty good time most of the time in this offense statistically in the last few years does it um does it raise an eyebrow or perk an ear for you to hear the wide receivers being like yeah we think we're pretty close but it's pretty complicated out there. It was a lot

of work to get this because I was intrigued by that. Yeah, it's a little bit noteworthy for sure. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm not super worried about like Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen. I mean, just winning on man coverage and various basic things like that that they've been doing at a high level for a long time. But there's a lot more complexity that goes into playing wide receiver. There's the blocking assignments and emotions and settling down in various gaps against zone. And so it kind of ties into one of the broader storylines heading into this game, which is the tradeoff between the pros and cons

of not playing in the preseason at all, which Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen were among a good chunk of the starters and all the star players, really, who did not play at all. And the good news on that front is the Vikings released their first injury report on Wednesday, and there was literally one name on it. It was Jonathan Bullard, who it sounds like has a good chance to play despite dealing with a little biceps injury but Irv Smith's not on there he's recovering from a thumb injury Jefferson Thielen Cook like cousins all these all these stars defensively Hunter Smith they're all ready to go because they weren't ever put in a situation in preseason where they could potentially get banged up. So that's a good thing. The potential downside is we, like I said earlier, we don't know what to

expect from this team. And they've banked a lot of reps throughout training camp. And that's something that Kevin O'Connell will be quick to point out that, hey, we've gotten a lot of reps for our ones. We had the night practice was kind of intense we had the joint practices we had a kind of a scrimmage thing towards the end of training camp uh which is all good and that's that's good that they've had that time but as far as game situation live reps full hitting like this is going to be the first time in eight nine months like you said for a lot of these guys so we'll see what it all looks like in terms of the schemes on both sides of the ball the offense um is there going to be any hesitancy

with with kirk cousins with these receivers um how's the offensive line going to look defensively it's the same thing with with ed donatel's uh new defense kind of playing out for the first time like is cam bynum going to be ready to play safety at a high level in this new defense? There's just so many things that we are finally going to get to kind of see, and it'll be a small sample size of one game, but I think we're going to learn a lot in this Packers game. So what went through my mind, and I don't want to scare anybody here,

when they were talking about the complexity of the offense, it's not so much the receivers that I think about. It's Adam Thielen and Kirk Cousins standing on the sideline at the end of the 2018 season debating where he should have run a route. And this offense, now here's my understanding of it. And even the way that Adam Thielen laid it out. So the previous offense, the way Thielen laid it out was there was a lot of words, but each word told each guy what they were going to do. So it's this, this, this, this.

That means this receiver runs a post. This receiver runs a curl. This right. So all you had to do is like, listen for, okay, that's what I'm supposed to do on this route. Whereas now he said, there's less words words but you have to fill in all the blanks yourself which pertains to the coverage and so forth like that like you know what page you're on with the quarterback that leaves open a little more for ambiguity between the wide receiver and the quarterback which i think if that works i mean just think about what aaron rogers

was able to do with a similar type of thing with davante adams where it's just like okay you can do anything you want because you're on the same page and cooper cup and matt stafford there was a story about how they both showed up at five in the morning every day classic football story but they would do all these things to make sure they're on the same page i'm not holding it against cousins that he didn't do extra throwing sessions with Jefferson, because I think that's fine. Like that's not a big deal. They're both pros, but I do have it in my memory bank that there have been moments with wide

receivers and this quarterback where they've been going was, did you think I was going there? Why didn't you throw it when i went there i was open when i was there come on like we've seen this before and i'm again like there's no panic button here it's just something i'm interested by because both receivers sort of volunteered that information that it was tough and then the last practice we saw the full practice was probably their worst one of the year so i they've got a lot of time to prepare for this game but as the season goes along like is everybody going to be on the same page with a lot of these like choice routes or adjustments right before the line of scrimmage or based on the coverage and things like that I think that is one of the

biggest questions because it's got great upside for them if it works, but it's also got the downside of a lot of finger pointing if it doesn't. Yeah, if you start to see things that are just like a click off and then you start to see conversations on the sideline, like it wouldn't be a shocking thing like you're saying. There's the Thielen one. There was Jefferson, I think in 2020 2020 it kind of went viral when he yelled like throw the whatever he said kirk uh i don't think he said what a lot of people heard i think he was talking about a certain kind of route but yeah there's just there's a lot of nuance to the

quarterback receiver connection and uh it helps i think that not only are the two receivers really good at what they do but they've had some some time on task is a good football term with Kirk Cousins. Thielen especially. It's been four years. Jefferson's been two. But, yeah, I mean, it's definitely worth keeping an eye on because they can't really afford to have rust early in the season and not be on that precise same page and then figure it out later. Because you're opening up with the Green Bay Packers who might have the best defense in the league and Jair Alexander and Rasul Douglas like they have a really strong cornerback group and then a couple weeks later no sorry literally

the next week you go to Philadelphia which has Darius Slay and a pretty good secondary and a good defense and that could be a really good Eagles team so yeah right out of the bat we're gonna see like are these guys on the same page is all all of this Kumbaya, Kirk Cousins is our guy stuff. Is that going to work out? And is he going to play at a high level? And I can, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it happens and this passing offense looks good and everyone starts to anoint O'Connell as the savior. But I also wouldn't be surprised at all if there are some growing pains early on and, and maybe it starts to get figured out more in like week three against the lions. Yeah. And it was interesting. I mean, the last time we were having discussions like this in 2018,

when the offense asked a lot from the receivers and cousins, uh, and it wasn't just the, uh, wide zone and the boots and so forth. I mean, it, it like started out well, and then it hit rough patches and then it hit more rough patches. And it was, it was like a really, it wasn't like a linear thing. It wasn't like it started off hot and went cold or it started off cold and got better. It was like the Rocky moments were where they couldn't really recover. But then at the same time, Mike Zimmer didn't help that process at all. Whereas now you have a coaching staff that I think has a fallback option, which is to simplify for Kirk Cousins. You can like bring it back, but you can't add more if that makes sense. So how

they adapt through the season is going to be, I think maybe a factor as well, because even if you look at someone like Cliff Kingsbury, he comes out of the gate hot every year and they're like, Oh, cause Kingsbury's figured out how to coach. And then by week 10, everyone knows their entire offense and they've got it all figured out. And then Tyler Murray's play goes down. How about this? Then here's another question.

So I wrote about this and I'm curious what you think. Let's say you have one of those meters. That's like cold is blue. So like this is like none at all. And then you have yellow is like a little bit. And then orange is kind of a lot. And red is super blazing hot. So you've seen this sort of meter, right?

They used to do it for terror levels. Luckily, we don't have that so much anymore. But when it comes to the level of aggressiveness of Kirk Cousins, I want you to give me what you think it should be, whether it's the blue, the yellow, the orange, or the red, and where you think it actually will be for how aggressive Kirk Cousins will be this year. Can I get like a green or a purple on the scale too? No, I think it should be orange at the very least, if not red, because I think you have Justin Jefferson and you have Adam Thielen, you have KJ Osborne and Irv Smith Jr. And

like the best case scenario for this offense is that the running game sets things up well. And even if the running game is really good it's not going to be a very like efficient thing when you look at epa expected points added it's to help set up the explosives in the past game so i think it should be orange or maybe red do i think it will be i'm not as confident in that because Kirk Cousins just is who he is and he said this on Wednesday like I'm gonna keep playing the position the same way I've always played it and we've heard that from him over the years and it's true he's gonna stick to kind of who he is there's like the hope I think maybe that uh this new coaching staff can get him to to loosen up a little bit

and unlock some of that and read things a different way. And maybe instead of reading from the check down out to like read from the top down and kind of take those shots and make that be your primary read. So we'll see if that happens. The thing with Kirk is like, I know a lot of people are all in on, on Kirk cousins. And we've, there was the whole like couple of people at NFL network picking him for MVP. And there is a situation in which he plays really well in this offense, but with Kirk cousins, there are always going to be,

it's always going to be kind of a rollercoaster. Like we've seen it in his four years. There's always going to, there's going to be some stretches where he looks a plays like an MVP candidate, like three, four games in a row, maybe.

And then there's going to be stretches where it's just not working as well. And he's not looking like he's in a great rhythm and he's maybe forcing some throws and checking down too much at the same time. Like there's going to be things like that. The key for the Vikings is to minimize the the poor stretches and to not have games like that 2019 game against the Chicago Bears and at Soldier Field that just always comes into my mind I think that was the first road Vikings game I ever covered and it was

just a hilariously bad offensive performance like you have to avoid things like that to where if Kirk Cousins has a little bit of a down game, it's something that you can overcome with good defense and with running the ball and with still making a few nice plays and then try to maximize the high. So I think that having Kevin O'Connell as a coach who's going to have a much more open line of conversation with Kirk Cousins and who knows him really well and is just this bright offensive mind, Like I think that could really help the adjustment process over the course of the season, but you never know with, with, with Kirk cousins, it's just, it's going to be up and down and there's always a chance we start seeing

people calling for Nick Mullins in like week seven. I don't think that'll happen, but you never know. They have really successfully avoided during Kirk's era, ever having somebody for the fans to call for. They have gone out of their way to make that happen. Although, you know, one common question was like, what are they going to spend the cap space on? But then when they cut all those guys and everything else, it's like, yeah,

they don't actually have any of that. So the we'll, we'll put that, we'll keep that in mind next year that when over the cap says they have 10 million um if you have to cut guys that have a bunch of dead cap you like don't have 10 million so it's um yeah something to keep in mind but uh so i wrote some things about this did a little research and one of the things i came up with is that as far as aggressiveness being defined by throwing downfield the the Vikings were not massively different than the Los Angeles Rams. Like in terms of their philosophy, Kirk Cousins actually threw into tighter coverage by NFL next gen stats more often than Matt Safford did last year, which you would not have expected.

And also, as far as like average depth of target, the Rams were third, the Vikings were 11th. So it's not like it was third versus 21st. It was like half a yard difference per area, which I found to be very interesting, but there's two areas where the Rams were very different in terms of aggressiveness than the Vikings. One is that Stafford was one of the top in the league at throwing past the sticks. Whereas Kirk cousins was 29th at throwing past the sticks. And the other one is that Stafford had one of the best big time throw rates. So like making spectacular passes, whereas Kirk was more mid pack. And of course, Stafford through more interceptable passes and turnover worthy plays

where Kirk was really good in that area. So this, this push and pull give and take, I feel like it has to be dead in the middle between yellow and orange, because if you go into the orange too far, he's going to throw picks. He's going to get strip sack. Cause he's going to wait with the ball longer. But if you go into the blue, which is kind of where they were early last season, you'd be like, wow, Kirk's not getting sacked at all, but also is averaging six yards to pass so that it's like this really difficult thing to manage and I think in a similar fashion that they've been saying like yeah this offense was really tough to get down that the answers to the aggressiveness is almost like we're like going after them when we're just asking like oh

is this going to be a thing and there's been a lot of like well uh i don't i don't expect kirk to take a step forward like oh you know like that's weird or and kirk like you said saying now i'm going to play quarterback the way i've always played like wait what isn't it but what do you got that guy then it like it's it's just a little odd with some of the comments folks football season is here and you need more gear to represent minnesota football adam thielen randy moss john randall the purple people eaters bud grant all great designs from soda stick.com s-o-t-a-s-t-i-c-k.com use the promo code purple insider to get 15 off your purchase yeah and i i just saw a clip like pop up again on twitter where some espn sideline reporter was asking him like hey you you we've gone from you being this uh this check down

quarterback to you throwing a deep down field like what does that say and he's he got like kind of defensive like if you know what you're talking about if you watch my seven years like there's a lot of times the ball is going pretty far down the field which i thought was interesting but it's true like he he has been a quarterback who has been willing to throw deep and we've seen that in like just watch Justin Jefferson highlights like there's a lot of times he'll put it up for him on those 30 yard like slot fades down the sideline and give him a chance to go make a play it's just it that's not always consistent and I think the stat that you you brought up with the the throwing short of the

sticks is the key one like I think that's where a lot of the frustration from some people who watch Kirk play and watch the film comes is that there's just times where he goes through the robotic progressions and he makes what might be a smart throw just given what the defense is giving you. But that's like checking down to Alexanderison when it's third and eight and you throw it two yards and like he would have to break two tackles to get there it's just in those situations you need to give yourself a chance to move the chains and extend drives and keep the ball moving by throwing it past the six and and giving jefferson and thielen and osborne a chance to make a play so yeah i think some of criticism of Cousins as this check down guy

isn't necessarily rooted in reality, but there are, like you said, a couple kind of key areas where that does stand out. Yeah, so he doesn't check down more than other people, but his check downs are surprisingly less efficient than others, which is a weird thing but like his epa uh expected points added is negative when normally check downs are kind of a break-even proposition um as on the average and his are actually negative which i think speaks to the third down stuff and everything else if you don't you know throw past the sticks uh and you

check down it really doesn't help you get closer to scoring. If you gain three yards on third and eight, like you said, but that, you know, that, that actually, that comment is kind of odd for that person to say for the interviewer to be like, Hey, remember when you were checked down, Charlie, I guess now you're not like in 2016, Kirk averaged like eight and a half yards to pass and was one of the better deep passers. He always has been. The thing about deep passing numbers is you only see the numbers for the throws that got made. So this kind of reminds me of hockey players where we would do hockey analysis with, well, how did this this guy perform while he was on the ice against this guy? Right. It's like, well, you know, you can't really tell how you would perform if he didn't go against that guy, because we don't have

that. So it's like the throws that Kirk didn't make, you can't ding him for, but they really matter. And I think that's one of the reasons that the stats don't always add up because his deep throwing is like the best in the league. It's just that how do you get him to do it more? And one thing I noticed was that Stafford, Allen, Matt Ryan, a handful of other quarterbacks, they had twice as many big time throws in the intermediate areas of the field, which is another thing for cousins where it's like, if it's not there, he hasn't necessarily pushed it into a window, which I think a lot of the coaches want him to do. And in particular, this one from what we've seen in training camp. So that is as far as biggest questions going into Vikings Packers, I think where he lands on that aggressiveness meter and

is it the right spot for them to maximize his output, not turn the ball over, not get sacked too much, but also hit a bunch of big plays. Like that's, that's been the thing that all coaching staffs have been chasing with Kirk Cousins. Yeah, absolutely. And it's sacked too much but also hit a bunch of big plays like that's that's been the thing that all coaching staffs have been chasing with Kirk Cousins yeah absolutely and it's more than just like his time to throw and his um kind of yards per attempt or his um what's what's the stat the air yards yeah it's it's more than just that it's I mean you said it like there unfortunately there isn't really a stat that can perfectly judge like the throw that he should have made like the optimal throw based on who was open what's the situation who was the receiver who's the who's the db like it'd be nice if there was some perfect all-encompassing stat like that and i think like pff grading tries to do that a little bit, but maybe doesn't really because Kirk like ranks really high and weirdly

high in PFF grades all the time. So yeah, it'll, it'll just be like, it'll be really fun to watch what he, how he approaches the game, how he kind of executes this offense, where he goes with the football,

how aggressive he is. Like if he throws a pick in the first half, does that change the, the calculation for him going forward? Cause it might. So yeah, I mean, it's, it all starts and ends really with Kirk cousins. That's top of the list of, of things to watch in this game, but there are a lot of other things that will factor in as well. Good segue, good segue by me.

Yeah, right. That, that we need to discuss. But you make a point, though. In San Francisco last year, Kirk Cousins went into San Francisco rolling and was playing well through a really awful pick, and it seemed to break him for like four weeks.

I mean, there are other factors. Thielen got hurt, but it just like his confidence was not the same after that interception. It was almost like he thought something was there and then he believed in it made the throw and when it didn't work is like oh should i believe in this anymore it was uh lied to yeah yeah the psychology of kirk could be like a netflix special or something it sounds like a coming of age like the psychology of kirk uh but let's talk about some of the other things here. Here's the, I mean,

here's the first one, the biggest thing. So, you know, like we're talking about the one quarterback with Rogers. I I'm just, I've just got like nothing outside of, I think he'll probably be great. Like I just don't, I haven't seen anything else other than that in front of my eyeballs with Kurt or with Aaron Rodgers. He is so often shredded up the Vikings, but man, if they were in the best possible position to go up against the MVP of the last two years, their defense is in that spot with everyone healthy going up against Rodgers. And I guess I just, I think I know what to expect for a full season with him, but I'm not sure I know what to expect for this one single game. Yeah, I'm with you.

I just looked to last year, week one, the Packers went to, I think it was in Jacksonville because something was happening in New Orleans and they couldn't play there and they just got smacked by the Saints. And it was like, oh, is this the end of this Packers run? Is like, are they cooking? They weren't. They won 13 games. It didn't end up mattering at all.

But this seems like potentially with all the Rodgers offseason drama and like going on his tropical vacations when he could have been throwing with Christian Watson and Alan Lazard. Like, it wouldn't shock me if we don't see peak alien magic Rodgers in this game. He's going to be really good, and he's probably going to put the ball right where it needs to be put most of the time, but does he have the receivers to finish the play and to make this offense hum? Because what he had with Devontae Adams was I think it's like you can look at the all-time list of like quarterback receiver duos and just their

connection like it's hard to even explain just how they knew what each other wanted to do where the ball needed to be there the raw ability obviously of on one end to put it in the right spot and on the other end to just always seemingly come down with it and get open. That's not there anymore. So who is Roger is going to trust? Like Lazard might not play. He apparently got stepped on and has like an ankle injury. Didn't practice on Wednesday.

I haven't seen the Thursday injury report yet, but like, is his most trusted target going to be like Robert Tunyon, the tight end who he's been playing with for a while. Other than that, it's like Sammy Watkins is new. I guess Randall Cobb he's been playing with for a long time, but Randall Cobb is kind of very old and not that threatening at this point in his career, although we'll see.

And then it's a couple of rookies. So yeah, I mean, Rogers is, he's still Aaron Rogers. He is still has an argument as the best quarterback in the league. He's a two time defending MVP. But yeah, if you first of all, you much rather play him without Devante Adams, then you rather play him without Devante Adams in week one before you really know what it's going to look like in terms of which receivers he's going to trust and how that is all going to kind of come together and whether boccieri and elkton jenkins both play is kind of a huge deal since those are both amazing players and the pass rush is the only thing that can get to aaron rogers it certainly isn't if you're a decent coverage team it's probably not going to matter because he'll find ways and he still moves around the pocket pretty well, but not like he used to where he could just move around wherever and make any throw.

It's I think a little bit easier to get to him than it has been in years past. And I was talking about this yesterday, but I think his throwaways in this game are the best stacks. He doesn't take a ton of sacks, but it's like, if he's got to throw the ball away, that means he's angry at his receivers or they couldn't get open or the blocking wasn't good. And that's kind of like that indicator. couldn't get open or the blocking wasn't good.

And that's kind of like that indicator. Can you get him a little bit frustrated? He seemed frustrated in camp when he kind of called out like half the receiving core and said, like guys are dropping balls and everything else. It's like, that's going to translate over if they don't start out really quick. And that's what you absolutely want. If you're the Vikings.

Now the question is really though, aside from the pass rush and so forth, Rodgers, when he's had a run game, just like every other quarterback of all time, pretty good, pretty, pretty good. And that sort of went, like, not really recognized because it's Rodgers and everything he does is great and all that and so forth. But the way they've run the ball the last few years has been really effective. And I just couldn't help but thinking about the Vikings last year played great defense for the most part against the pass and then lost

several games solely because they got steamrolled. I wonder what you think of playing two deep safeties and relying a lot on Harrison Phillips and Delvin Tomlinson here you're standing up your outside linebacker edge rushers your uh linebackers are not big dudes um Jordan you know Hicks is a little bigger than Eric Hendricks but they're not like these stouts Chris Spielman old school gonna stuff the run guys like that's not them well yeah they drafted Brian Asamoah to like be the prototype linebacker in the system and he like looks like a safety so yeah right but this team can get it can get run over i think the defensive tackles are such a huge part of this game plan absolutely yeah i mean a lot of the focus is going to be on

the two edge rushers not only because of the zadaria smith revenge game angle but we i mean we haven't seen zadaria smith and daniel hunter healthy in a while and like sitting in the press box i'm when the packers have the ball i'm probably going to be watching those two dudes every play because when they're healthy they are really really good and that's going to be a huge part of defending aaron rogers but you are you're completely right that if the Packers can run the ball well, and that's what this Ed Donatel, Vic Fangio defense kind of invites is like, we're not going to stack the box. You'll be able to run it a little bit. We want to have good defensive tackles and good linebackers to hopefully stop that. But we're prioritizing playing these two

high safeties, not giving up explosives in the past game. If the Packers can run the ball really well, and they have maybe the best duo in the league, probably the best duo in the league, right up there with Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt, and A.J. Dillon, who just looks really good as just a pure, bruising running back kind of between the tackles guy. And then Aaron Jones, who gives you that kind of wide zone threat, cutback guy, is going to like catch 60 or

70 passes this year with Adams gone that's another guy where like watch out for Aaron Jones in the passing game like I think there it's possible that they could have some packages I don't this I haven't heard this report or anything but where they could have Dylan and Jones on the field at the same time and maybe motion Jones out like into the slot or you have them both in the backfield. So if they can run the ball pretty consistently, get four or five yards of carry, that's going to keep them on schedule really well, which means Aaron Rodgers wouldn't have to light you up with 370 yards and three touchdowns for the Packers to win this game and to have a really productive day on offense. So Harrison Phillips, I think, is a huge, huge, huge kind of part of this game and somebody to really keep an eye on as much as possible with a nose tackle. And if he's able to successfully occupy those two blocks and defend multiple gaps

and free up Hicks and Kendricks to make – and Dalvin Tomlinson too, of course, to free up Kendricks and Hicks to make – and Dalvin Tomlinson too, of course, to free up Kendricks and Hicks to make plays. And for the Vikings to be able to get Rodgers and company in some clear and obvious passing situations, some third and longs, get them off schedule a little bit, that's when Hunter and Smith can really go to work. So it all kind of works together in tandem. And if one thing isn't working as well, then the other thing won't work as well.

And that's when it can start to to not go great okay so uh i have a couple of fan questions left over from a fans only pod the other day that we can answer was there any other matchup that you just like wanted to talk about because it's on your mind because you care because you think about football a lot yeah i mean just the obvious I think is, is Jefferson against J or Alexander, like one of the best cornerbacks in the league. That's just like, I'm going to try to watch that even on plays where Jefferson doesn't get the

ball. Just like, is he going to, is Alexander going to be up in press? And if so, like how successful the Jefferson's release is going to be. And just that kind of stuff is, is pretty awesome. And, and not just that kind of stuff is is pretty

awesome and and not only that but like does he follow jefferson like are they going to try to move them a lot uh they got to put them in the slot like that stuff we don't really know jefferson was only in the slot about 20 of the time in the past but is he going to be in the slot like a lot more um i'm not convinced that he is from what we saw in in training camp i is he going to be in the slot like a lot more? I'm not convinced that he is from what we saw in training camp. I think he's just one of the great all-time outside wide receivers, or at least all-time for starting a career as an outside wide receiver. And if you change that too much, you might be making a mistake, but also when you motion guys and when you put guys in the slot, then you're forcing Jair Alexander to go up against the two way go,

which he might not usually have to do. So, yeah, I think that's, that is a, absolutely among the best matchups that there are. Okay. So a couple of these questions,

this comes from at Pat, the Pingu on Twitter says in light of the official depth chart being released, how worried should we be that lewis about lewis scene i had thought the transition into the nfl for safety was quite seamless hence why bynum was able to convert positions i didn't 100 hate the trade with the lions during the draft because of the player we got but i'm getting more and more nervous that this dude might be farther away than we had thought. Your opinion on Lewis scene,

not being the starting safety and it being combined, which I would not have bet on draft night for sure. I would not have bet that. No, I mean, first round pick. I thought when you looked at the three, the top three rookies seen a booth and Inram seen was the most likely ingram was probably second and then booth was last because just cornerback is really hard to play as a rookie uh ended up being ingram who was the only one who uh won that that training camp battle and to the

point where the vikings traded the guy that he was competing with uh i i wouldn't sound any sort of alarms on lewis yet. I think it's completely understandable to be a little bit like, hey, I thought this guy was going to be a week one starter. What happened there? But there are a couple theories. Well, I mean, one is in regards to the question, I don't know that transitioning to safety in this specific defense is as smooth as maybe it could be in some other schemes just because of how much is asked of these safeties and the other idea would be that maybe cam bynum is just pretty good and like maybe it says as much about him and how he's

come along in his like just second year playing safety and how he's learned this defense and what the Vikings coaching staff sees in him as this all-around safety and maybe it says just as much about Bynum as it does about any potential shortcomings that scene has had or any like kind of unexpected delays in his ability to pick everything up and really put it all on tape. So I wouldn't be too worried. I'm curious, like, do we see Lewis seen in this game in any sort of sub package role or a third safety? Because we saw some of that during training camp where they would have all three on the field.

Like, what does the personnel in the secondary look like when the Packers go four or five wide? I'm curious to see that because also the Vikings have like one nickel cornerback on the entire active roster, and it's Chandon Sullivan, who is not somebody I'm super confident in. Like, I think the best case scenario is he's just fine. But, yeah, overall, I wouldn't be too concerned about seeing yet. Let's see what his role looks like. If there is one early on, let's see how Bynum plays.

And we're going to see, we're going to see Louis seen in a, in a decent size role at some point this year, I would think maybe, maybe not necessarily if Bynum plays really well. Right. And there's no need for it. Then maybe he almost redshirts to some degree.

And that wouldn't be super encouraging, but it also might not be the end of the world either. And the three safety thing, like, is it a myth? I mean, or is it a reality? Like some teams have done this a bit, some more than others, but it's one of those things that it seems like everyone talks about. And we talked about it for a long time with Zimmer. Who's like,

yeah, we'd love to have this three safety package, but they never had either the person to do it, or he just couldn't stand J Ron curse. So they blew it up and decided not to. I think with Louisine, nobody ever wants to be the person who says after the first year, or he doesn't start week one,

this guy's a bust because there's so many examples. I mean, Justin Jefferson, not starting week one, Josh Allen, not starting week one and Nate Peterman got the call. I mean like there, yeah, there's a lot of rookies who have not started right away. And I think you make a fair point about the safeties when it comes to like on the whole, they have adjusted well to the NFL, but this might ask for more. And I think you make a fair point about the safeties when it comes to like, on the whole, they have adjusted well to the NFL, but this might ask for more. And it might be the fact that they set the bar higher than they expected with Cam Bynum because, you know, maybe he adapted really quickly and it kind of looked like he did during camp. All that being said, I would say that

it's, it's like, it's like an orange it's an orange uh you know it's like as far as concerning goes they draft you in the first round to play they don't draft you in the first round to sit next to cambine and they draft you in the first round that's fair i'm not gonna argue with that you're right yeah coming off playing at georgia where they all talked about oh yeah he's gonna adapt quickly and he needs to be ready right away. Like all the things they said about him, there was no, Hey guys, we love Kambion and he's going to start, but we want this to be our long-term duo. So don't freak out. Like they didn't forewarn when it came to that.

And so I think that they fully expected him to just straight up win that job and us to go on with our lives. And that didn't happen. So I think that as this begins no i i wouldn't say that it's code red but it is code orange the guy should be starting if he if he was ready to start and if he had come from like maine albany then okay like what was it kyle duggar came from like who cares university it's like that guy fine this guy This guy came from Georgia. He should be playing. Yeah, I, I, I agree with that. I think that's fair. I will say not to disagree with that.

That scene did miss a little bit of time in training camp, but still like you, if you're the first round safety, you should probably be starting. That's right. The one other thing I'll say on that is like, it's funny you mentioned J Ron curse. Cause not only is J Ron curse a starting safety now. So is Marcus Epps. Yeah. Isn't that kind of,

he was like a sixth round pick where the Vikings, then they waved them. And then he goes to the Eagles and then they just released Anthony Harris because Marcus Epps is better than him. So, and that wasn't really relevant to anything. Although we will see Marcus Epps in week two. So say it's a revenge game.

There's a lot of revenge games. You go to, I mean, Stefan digs, Anthony bar, Nick vigil place for the Arizona Cardinals. We missed out on your, I saw your piece earlier this week about how you don't really love the

whole revenge game narrative. Well, I just think that it's a little overblown perhaps. I just think that if you're going to call it a revenge game, there's gotta be a reason for revenge, right? Like Stefan Diggs is a revenge game. The man feels mistreated. He was traded away.

Kirk Cousins is a revenge game. Now let's talk about that one when we get there. Now that's a revenge game. Zedarius Smith, the Packers picked him up, helped him become a superstar like what i don't know man like you got hurt and had back surgery and like then you signed somewhere else that's pretty he alleges in that in that go long story that uh he was mistreated or whatever um and the packers seem to have a different view of it but you could maybe

argue that there's there's something there more than just guy playing against his former team it does become funny sometimes i think like to be used as kind of a meme like this guy was on the giants practice squad for three weeks revenge game like yes that that's got that part's just kind of funny right right right we we stretch think, a little bit far on that. So we are at the point in the pod where you tell me who you think is going to win, and then I tell you who I think I – wait. Who I think is going to – who do you think is going to win? There you go.

Great delivery of that. I think the Vikings are going to win and I don't feel like super incredibly confident in it but I don't know maybe I'm just sipping the the Kool-Aid of having been around all these Kevin O'Connell press conferences um I just think like the Packers have the better quarterback obviously but I think the Vikings advantage have the better quarterback, obviously, but I think the Vikings' advantage at wide receiver can help outweigh that a little bit. I think that energy and the atmosphere at US Bank Stadium could legitimately matter to some degree and mean something when it's third down and then that place is going crazy. And against Aaron Rodgers, maybe not as much, but I don't know.

I just have a feeling that the Vikings are going to pull out a close one. Maybe Greg Joseph will get carried off on his teammates' shoulders again. Yeah, I think that every prediction that ever happens in the NFL is like, well, I think this was going to be a close one. Bob, don't you say? Well, yeah, two good teams matched up here. Vikings are going to win by 47. I'm not going to say that. It's kind of like how they used to have all the ESPN people pick their team's record

and add it up to like a 70% winning percentage. It's like, I don't think that's quite. But in this way, the Vikings and Packers in recent years in the mike zimmer era played a lot of very close games that came down to final drives and so forth um last year they they certainly did in the game at u.s bank stadium i i think it's the same way here and i give the slight edge to the vikings because of that two teams making big adjustments in the offseason rogers to his new receiving core, the Vikings to their new offense and defense.

Slight, slight edge to the Vikings, but I would go with them here and go with them to cover and so forth. But it's slight. I mean, would anything surprise me? Would it surprise me if they got a big sack at the end of the game to beat them? Or if Rodgers let a game-winning drive and threw to some receiver we've never heard of?

Neither of those things would surprise me because of how these two teams have battled against each other. And the Vikings are best equipped that they'll ever be, I think, to face off with the Packers on this day, Sunday. So we shall see. That's why they play the games will I get the feeling that some people listening to this are not gonna love that we both picked the Vikings just for the energy of it but hey debate we'll find we'll find out on Sunday I will say though like I would be more surprised by the Vikings winning in like blowout fashion say like 14 points or more than i would by the packers doing that oh because they have aaron rogers like i i'm picking the vikings to win but i can't really see a

scenario in which they kill the packers whereas i could sort of see a scenario in which the packers win by three touchdowns and things just go really weird for the vikings because their head coach has never been a head coach before. So, right. Because sometimes like even, even games that the Vikings have fallen down by a lot, usually they make it interesting in those games or even like come back. Like they fell down in 2018. They were down in 2019 by what? Three scores like right away. And then Broncos are just talking about the Packers, just the Packers in general.

Like, uh, uh and also I mean we've discovered this that a team led by Kirk Cousins is never down by kind of too much to get close and still lose by seven like you know just it's never really uh over with him because he's very good at ripping apart defenses that are trying to kind of keep everything in front of them so anyway well Will great stuff as always and congratulations to making it through the offseason you're going to continue to do your weekly appearance here very happy uh to be doing that with you each week we're going to get together on thursday and we will give the hardest core of hardcore breakdowns of the following week and of course the vikings are going to screw with us

monday night football they're going to screw with us Monday night football. They're going to have a London game, whatever else, but we'll be doing this planning on doing it every Thursday. So thanks. We will not be doing it on Thursday of Thanksgiving because they will be playing that day. So we'll have to also adjust for that one. But yeah, this has been a lot of fun doing these, these weekly shows. And I'm, I'm just looking forward to having some football to talk about.

Football. Thanks Will.