Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Will Ragatz talks us into the Vikings' secondary being good this year

Episode Date: August 21, 2023

Matthew Coller and Sports Illustrated's Will Ragatz react to the Vikings' preseason game using a game of "talk me into..." in which they talk about the running back situation, receiver room, cornerback group and how the "competitive rebuild" factors into the secondary's success. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here. Before we dive into my conversation with Will Raggetts, I want to tell you about Purple Insider Football Jam, an event that we are holding at Inbound Brewing, which is in the North Loop. It's near Target Field. August 22nd, so Tuesday night, August 22nd from six to

nine o'clock at inbound brewing, we're doing a live podcast there, which you'll be able to come and ask questions, hang out. We're going to have an immaculate grid contest that we're creating, pick the schedule and much, much more. So I'll be there for a few hours. Make sure that you stop by. Inbound Brewing. There's no cost, no charge. And if you get there early, there's a chance we get you 50% off of your first beer. So make sure that you're coming down to listen to our live podcast,

Purple Insider Football Jam, August 22nd, so Tuesday night from six to nine. That is Inbound Brewing. Inbound Brewing. Come check it out. to nine, that is inbound brewing, inbound brewing. Come check it out. All right, let's get into the show. Joining me once again, Sports Illustrated's Will Regetts coming off of such an intense preseason game. I mean, I'm surprised that you could even get up to do the show that you wouldn't have needed just like a day of rest or something like a veteran day off after such an intense football game okay so maybe it was the point where we've reached where it's uh let's get to the old regular season here but will we do have a lot

to talk about and it's been a little while since we've done a game of talk me into so i think that's a great place to start but give me one one thing. And I don't care how much you have to stretch or reach or try. That was a main takeaway from Vikings Titans preseason game number two. Yeah, I, I, I should have limbered up a little bit more this morning because it's going to require some real stretching. It was not the most scintillating game of football. It was really just, it was a reminder of what preseason football is, where it's going to require some real stretching it was not the most scintillating game of football it was really just it was a reminder of what preseason football is where it's the second stringers and but mostly third and fourth stringers and guys who are probably not going to be on nfl 53 man rosters uh doing kind of vanilla things because the coaching staff

doesn't want to give away all their tricks and uh the end result is some some tough to watch football at times but i think kind of my main takeaways are that just there were a couple young guys who i thought took a little bit of a of a step i was watching jaron hall closely i wanted to kind of just see how the the backup quarterback battle was looking we always do this every year last year it was kellen mond and sean manny and now it's nick mullins and jaron hall and i thought hall looked a little bit more comfortable than he did in week one which is probably what the vikings wanted to see it wasn't like oh okay all of a sudden this guy he's gonna be your backup like now nick mullins is still a lot more advanced at this point which is understandable he's like an eighth year veteran or whatever and jaron hall is a fifth round rookie but i thought hall looked more comfortable made some good reads his stat line would have looked a little bit better

if some players could have come down with contested catches so i think that was a that was a relative positive nothing crazy but uh yeah there there was nothing crazy in this game so we're making do with what we got uh one drive that got in the end zone for jaron hall okay yeah that'll work uh but i and on and on that drive he he threw three passes that were all wide open like seven yards in the air dump offs that had some some yak but you know what that's fine he scrambled for a first down on a third and five so they scored points i mean that really tells you where we were at with that football game, that that's the takeaway. And I mean, I think most people left by then.

They were in US Bank Stadium. That was the point where they started throwing the airplanes, the paper airplanes, which has kind of become a tradition. Once the game gets truly miserable in preseason action, fans start throwing down. It wasn't too bad last night, but a couple of them did end up on the on the field and i don't know you don't want anyone to get hit in the eye with a paper airplane but it's just one of those indications that all right we've gone too far and that's when jaron hall was in the game and the other thing is about that not that i disagree with you or anything

but it's like it's not like he played so well that we could even have a discussion about, well, you know, should there be a conversation about QB too? Cause there really is no QB to conversation. And then, you know, Lewis seen misses a tackle. So that stands out. And we talk a lot about that and then so forth. But I just think that when you have joint practices going on, that's where all the action is. That's where all the big takeaways are. And by the time that the team gets there, they're having the quarterback coach call the plays or whatever in the fourth quarter, because they're just like, Hey, who wants to call plays and have some fun? They're showing Kevin O'Connell on TV, just chatting with Justin Jefferson and all that. So the, you know, one thing it does is it makes it so you can't overreact too much to a preseason game.

But I would like to kind of reset where we're at with a game of Talk Me Into. And here's where I want to begin. Because the one thing that was a little frustrating, and maybe to them as well, for watching that game, was that we did not get to see the wide receivers. Because the offensive line was so bad that it was like Nick Mullins got a couple passes off to the tight ends and that was about it. But we didn't get to see Tristan Jackson, Jalen Rager, Brandon Powell, a little bit of Thayer Thomas, Lucky Jackson, but not enough to really evaluate these guys.

So I want you to talk me into, there is no reason to be concerned at all about the wide receivers. Everything is good here. After the injuries that they've had, the players that have gone out, and the fact that Jalen Naylor is not back, no one has really emerged. I like what Tristan Jackson has done in practice, but no one has really emerged that you would be very confident in. And then Jordan Addison has his second offseason injury. Talk me into, there's nothing to see here, folks.

Everything is totally fine with the wide receiver group. Yeah, I really don't think there is anything to be concerned about with that group. I mean, I think Kevin O'Connell, for the most part, has been decent with us about injuries. When he says that Jordan Addison should be out of concussion protocol pretty quickly I I'm inclined to believe him for now uh there have been a couple uh injuries this this training camp that have maybe lingered longer than they anticipated but uh yeah I you're right that like we didn't get to see much from that position group it was like the fourth fifth and six tight ends were the ones doing the receiving in this game but

it's it's to me it's it's a pretty loaded room I mean you have Jefferson you have Addison who's been great you have KJ Osborne as your top three and then beyond that there's a bunch of different kind of styles and and body types and games that the Vikings could go with to round out their roster I think Jalen Naylor if he can finally get healthy we still don't really know what's going on with him beyond that it's something to do with the lower leg and it's been it's been lingering um he had a great kind of otas and and first day of training camp before he got hurt tristan jackson's showed up consistently brandon powell all these guys i mean the thing is you're not they're not going to be relying on like thayer thomas and blake prole who are the guys who couldn't come down with those jaron hall passes that i mentioned

so they they have they have quite a bit of depth there uh that i think they can withstand an injury to it now you need to have your top three healthy for most or all of the year to really be an impactful group and and help jefferson take some pressure off of him but uh i i think the depth there is is quite fine and uh nothing nothing to be concerned about at all so i wanted to give you an easy one to get your back rolling it's been a while since we did a talk me into and i think that i'm like 95 talked into it because the people who will determine whether this receiving group is one of the best in the NFL or just good are at the top. It's Justin Jefferson. We know exactly what he's going to do.

But K.J. Osborne is stepping into a bigger role here, of which in training camp he's looked phenomenal and hasn't gotten a lot of attention because he's not a first round pick and not as sexy of a conversation is talking about how good Jordan Addison looks because we know what KJ Osborne is, but he was the one the other day leading the charge on that situational drill against the Titans, which we know the coaching staff takes very seriously. And then with Jordan Addison, he has looked excellent and looked excellent in the preseason game missing a couple of those practices I do think hurts he missed a lot of practice during the spring which I do think hurts in terms of totally capturing what you need to do offensively and so if he doesn't come out playing as many snaps as KJ Osborne I'm sure we'll get typical football coaches and everything else,

but we need to keep in mind that Osborne is so much more experienced and even with this offseason is so much more experienced than Jordan Addison. That does make me a tad nervous based on his size and based on the compiling

of some of these injuries for his offseason, the spring, the spring, the combine USC, it's kind of been a lot of dings and cuts sort of reminds me of Darisaw when he came in and was delayed to start the season because of some injuries. And the next man up,

if Jordan Addison is banged up is I'm not really sure because Jalen Naylor has one practice, an unpadded practice to start the off season. And I'm just not sure that you can have no training camp as a player like that. This isn't Daniil Hunter. And even then they wanted Daniil Hunter to slowly ramp up, right? Like these, this training camp is a big deal, even if he knows the offense from last year and has been in meetings. and then you're asking either tristan jackson probably jaylen rager though and you don't want jaylen rager playing very often at wide receiver or brandon powell who i think has looked a little better

as a wide receiver and has been punt returning but probably both of them have to be on the roster at this point i mean i think that addison's health is kind of the swing man here because if he is slowly being brought in starting with week one and it's Osborne and Jefferson, then you're totally confident that's a great group. Although you have this Hawkinson thing lingering as well, and then you start to get a little more nervous. Like, okay, well, if he's going to miss any time

because of whatever it is that this ear issue is, then you start to kind of go, I don't know. But I also don't know how many teams will have five amazing wide receivers. So you kind of have to just deal with that as part of the NFL. So I mostly talked into that as, look, the guys who are going to make this engine go are not the number four, five, and six wide receivers. And most teams don't have great receivers at those spots anyway what would you like me to talk you into yes before i do that just one the quick thought on on what you said is i think if if jordan addison for whatever reason wasn't ready in week one or couldn't play i think it'd be brandon

powell who would take over most of that just based on what I've seen from him route running and they're not they're not the same player definitely I think you'd want Brandon Powell to be kind of exclusively in the slot which then pushes Osborne outside so maybe there'd be Tristan Jackson in there too but I I agree with you that they really really need Jordan Addison to stay healthy for this thing to be able to kind of reach its peak and and what Kevin O'nell envisions this offense being i would like you to talk me into after watching last night's game the vikings needing to sign another running back well come i mean we are just making it too easy on each other here i'm starting with an easy one you started me with an easy one i'll start you with these one okay yeah we are we're just uh slow pitch firsthand, hit the warmups, and then we'll get into the fastballs. Yeah. So the thing with Ty Chandler is when we came into training camp, I had this expectation that either Ty Chandler or Kenny Wongwu, by the end of training camp, we were going to be saying, this guy might take some snaps away from Alexander Madison.

Look at the raw skills of both of those players. They both run sub 4-4. They have jet engine packs. Chandler is a more physical runner than you kind of expect for someone who runs a 4-3. And Kene Wongwu is actually bigger than somebody you'd expect for someone who runs a 4-3-2, which is insane sprinter speed. And Wong Wu is also shifty. And I think he's got good vision and maybe a little bit in the receiving game that he can do more than some other running backs. But we haven't seen Wong Wu hardly at all. There was one day

where he went sprinting down the sideline. Maybe it was like the first padded practice or something where I went, oh man, this could be really a great combination. And I'm a big believer will in combinations in the backfield. I think we all got frustrated over the years with them just giving the ball to Delvin cook over and over and over and over and over like the Marshawn thing, like just over and over, but he would wear down in the second half of the season. And I look at someone like new Orleans over the years when they had Ingram and Camara as like, that's the modern way of doing this. Or even McKinnon and Murray, if somebody's not doing well, the other guy's got a different skillset. Right. And I felt like there was a good chance based on the talent of Wong Wu and Chandler that we would have that

here. And that would actually be more effective than all delvin cook all the time instead they haven't shown any real trust in ty chandler i understand that it was not his fault that he was getting caught in the backfield but also he averaged two yards to carry in this game i mean again and not his fault they did not block very well at all but last year's preseason he had some really spectacular runs. And the first impression of him was like, whoa, this guy's unstoppable. But another reminder that the offensive line usually determines a lot of the success. So they clearly don't have a great trust for him.

And then with Kenny Wong, we just have no idea. Is he coming back? Is he not coming back? But similarly to, you know, we were talking about Jordan Addison missing even a little bit of practice. I mean, now he's missed a ton of practice. And I don't know how you can be sharp on pass blocking, route running, the details of an offense that Kevin O'Connell makes very complicated if you haven't practiced at all. And so they bring in, you know, Aaron Dykes. Shout out Aaron Dykes.

Great kick return. The guy's got a little bit of juice to him. Maybe they just cut Wong. Well, I don't know. Like, I think that would be kind of wild because he's had kick returns for touchdowns, but I, they just have not gotten anything out of him as a running back in the entire time he's been here.

And I don't know if they can't get him healthy, then what are they going to do at that position? So it's kind of time to say you need someone you could trust to play whatever number of offensive snaps. How many offensive snaps would be the most? 50, 60 snaps? I mean, so yeah, 60 snaps in a game if Alexander Madison got hurt. Well, who's going to do that?

I mean, Mike Davis, who they brought in, could probably do it. We certainly know that Kareem Hunt can definitely do it based on his career. There might be a few other guys out there, but they're going to find homes. Anybody who knows how to play football within the next couple of weeks, because it is getting late early here. We got like, what, 20 days until the season? I mean, there's only so much time you can even get a veteran in to have him learn the offense. Now is probably the time. I think on Monday they should hand us all a press release. They don't do that.

They email us. They should email us a press release, throw out the Twitter, get the NFL Network scoop five minutes beforehand, and let us all know that they have signed veteran running back X. I fully believe that it's time to do that yeah i i hear you it's that definitely was a softball to start it because it's it's growing a little more concerning we'll say with with kane wong woo not being healthy we really have no idea what's going on there ty chandler had a good first week of the preseason and then this game is tough to evaluate

like you said because it's it just there didn't seem to be anything there you got to watch the tape but it it seemed like it wasn't really his fault he didn't do anything spectacular to kind of break two tackles and turn something in it turn nothing into something but um it was tough and then Dwayne McBride we said this last week week, and it's the same story after the second game. He just seems really kind of raw and it seems like he's still swimming in terms of handling everything that the fly and do a lot more. And he had a catch where he broke a couple tackles afterwards, which was good to see since he didn't catch the ball basically at all in college, but still haven't seen really maybe one good run from him in two preseason games, which is kind of the skill that was advertised. So, yeah, I think with the importance of the pass protection

and just the fact that the Vikings, even though they were pass-heavy last year, they want to run the ball more this year. That's why they brought in Josh Oliver. All of a sudden, if anything happens to Alex Madison, I don't know how confident they feel in Ty Chandler. So I'm with you on that one. All right, talk me into this. This is where it's going to ramp up a little more challenging.

Talk me into there's nothing to see here. Don't worry about the secondary. Everything is fine. Brian Flores is going to take care of all that. You don't even need to think about it. Don't worry your little head. You're all good. Secondary is great.

Because I see Makai Blackman get banged up the other day. We'll find out how long that's going to keep him out. And then here comes Juwan Williams, who has had a nice camp and is going to make the team. And it wasn't clear he was going to make the team. He signed a one-year, $1 million deal. And I like some things about him, his length. He's a big guy, but he also has barely played as a second round draft pick. Talk me into not thinking that their past defense will rank like 25th based on what you've seen from the secondary. I think that the big thing that is going to help the secondary the most this year is going to be the pressure from Brian Flores defense. And I think those two things kind of,

they have a hand in hand relationship where maybe there will be times where that puts them in a tough spot. But on the aggregate, it's going to be helpful that quarterbacks are not going to have much time because they're going to have some looping blitzer, something confusing happening that's right in their face and not going to be able to sit back and wait for these deep routes to develop downfield. I think the Vikings are pretty loaded at safety. If you assume that Harrison Smith is still going to be like his Harrison Smith. And I think this defense is going to be a lot better for him with the things that's going to ask him to do and take advantage of his versatility and not just have him sit back and be a deep safety like he was last year. I think Cam Bynum is a solid starter who, again,

I think he can also benefit from this defense and not just being a deep safety and not moving around a whole lot under Ed Donatel. I think Louis Seen, which could be an entire separate conversation, showed some signs of progress in this game. I think even like Josh Metellus, Theo Jackson, I think it's a solid, a good safety room. And then at cornerback, I mean, I like what I've seen from these young guys. You got Byron Murphy, who I haven't seen at all in the preseason. He's been having a really strong training camp. I think he can be an upgrade from Patrick Peterson in some ways as your number one cornerback. I think Caleb Evans, Makai Blackman, these guys are having really strong camps. I mean,

they're really kind of exceeding the expectations that I had for them. Obviously, it's about health, but I don't think that they can be really labeled as injury prone in the same way as an Andrew Booth, who we're not even counting on in this exercise. And then Jawan Williams, I think, is a solid fourth guy to have as a veteran with experience, with length, with size that works well in this Brian Flores defense. So I think with the combination of getting pressure and not giving quarterbacks a ton of time in the pocket and some of the new guys that they've brought in, some of the older guys that have been here for a while, Harrison Smith, Josh Metellus, who is going to really, I think, emerge on defense this year after being a key special teams guy. I think this can be a middle of the pack secondary in the NFL. I think you tried very hard there and you gave it a really good effort,

but you did lose me a little when you said Byron Murphy will be an upgrade over what they had from Patrick Peterson last year. I mean, Peterson was one of the best corners in the NFL but I get what you're saying he is a dynamic player at the nickel position that can be used a lot of different ways we've seen him blitz a lot I think in this scheme he can be better for them than Patrick Peterson would have been this year with another year of aging under like and i think that's the decision they made is that patrick peterson was really really good in that ed donatel scheme where he could kind of read the quarterback's eyes and react and play the ball more and that worked out well but in this scheme where you might be putting guys on an island and man coverage more often

at this point the 25 year old Byron Murphy is going to be a better fit than the 34 year old Patrick Peterson, however old he, however old he is. Folks, there is no crazier time in my schedule than the fall season. And let me tell you, it is tough to find myself a good and healthy meal, But that is why I have Factor, America's number one ready-to-eat meal kit that can help me fuel up with chef-prepared, dietician-approved, ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to my door.

Give it a try. It'll save you time, you'll eat well, and you'll stay on track with a healthy lifestyle. Trust me, this is an issue with the number of drive-thrus I have to go through with my schedule. If you're too busy like me, with Factor you can skip the extra drive-thru or even just skip the trip to the grocery store. You don't have to chop and prep and clean and all those things that take time. Factor's fresh but never frozen meal are ready in just two minutes so all you have to do is just heat and enjoy and you can refresh your healthy habits without

missing a beat by choosing from 34 weekly flavor packed dietician approved meals that are again ready to eat in just two minutes that is so so helpful. I can't even tell you. The options are crazy. The number of different ways that you can customize this just to you. If you're looking to be calorie conscious, they've got that too. Try delicious calorie smart meals with around or less than 550 calories per serving head to factor meals.com slash purple 50 and use the code purple 50 to get 50 off that's code purple 50 at factor meals.com slash purple 50 to get 50 off oh yeah i completely agree that byron murphy is a better choice for this defense than Patrick Peterson would have year. And already we saw Blackman getting banged up,

and he's on the smaller side. He's another guy I never really trust rookies to play full seasons because it's just they're not ready for it. I mean, NFL players have spent years, guys who are veterans preparing their body to deal with this, and even they get banged up, much less rookies who kind of are drinking out of a fire hose just in general in the NFL. So asking him to play the entire season

is pretty tough. And then you say, well, yeah, okay. Juwan Williams. Well, I mean, Juwan Williams has almost no history because he couldn't really get on the field in new England in good defenses. And I think it could be a really good find for them if it works out, but it's hard to talk me into believing in that. So then what it all kind of comes back to is all right. Well, can Brian Flores just blitz the heck out of everybody and make this work? And I think the answer is ish. They can't because one thing they have going for him that I do want to bring up, there was a look at this i think it was pff from years ago somebody studied this by doing things differently so if you

have a scheme that has two tight ends this would come up with gary kubiak what other teams have two tight ends that play all the time doesn't happen very often it's hard to game plan for i think that brian flores is hard to game plan for because his defense is so different. And in 2020 and 2021, when you look at the expected points added for his defenses in Miami, they were really, really good in part because they caused a lot of turnovers, 16 interceptions in 2021. And that wasn't even their best defense under Flores. But blitzing will does not equal success. And I was looking at this just now, pulling this up. The New York Giants and the Arizona Cardinals were the tops in the league in blitzing last year. The Giants were okay, gave up the 15th highest QB

rating. But the Arizona Cardinals gave up the second highest QB rating against. And it kind of follows from there that a lot of the teams that are blitzing like crazy, Detroit was one of them last year, one of the highest blitzing teams. They were horrible against the past, the worst in the league. And I'm not convinced. I'm not talked into that. This defense can hold up if there's any issues and I also still after watching camp I I've liked Blackman and Evans but I can't be totally convinced that this thing is just going to be floresed all the way to being an average or better defense yeah that's fair I I did my best there uh I had to I had to definitely stretch a little bit with I I just just think the concern for me would be the depth and, like you said,

the possibility of injuries. I always think about it. I think it was 2020. They started a different cornerback trio every week for the first, like, seven or eight weeks of the season. These were, like, legendary guys like Holden Hill and Mike Hughes and just Curtis Riley or something at some point it was just a cast of of uh of cast offs and it was it was bizarre but they just they could not

stay healthy it was this guy would get banged up and then he would return and then he would get hurt again and this guy would get hurt and it was just there was never any consistency there and the players weren't particularly good but the fact that they never had that the same three two weeks in a row just made it really hard on the whole defense I think to kind of work around that so cornerback is definitely a position where you're worried about injuries one of your starters is a guy who had three concussions last year and had a little mini concussion scare at joint practice this week the other other one, Makai Blackman, has kind of a similar thing as Jordan Addison where you just worry a little bit more with small guys

about the possibility of injuries. And Blackman is a little bit bigger than Jordan Addison, but not by a whole lot. They really kind of went all in on this let's find value in undersized guys thing. So, yeah, it was notable to me to see Ronald Darby sign with the Ravens last week and that be an option that's off the table because, to me, we talked about this on our last show. There are several spots on this team where you could say,

hey, they could really benefit from plugging a, a veteran with, with some level of starting caliber ability in there. And a cornerback is, is one of them just, just for the depth of it all. So, uh, I did my best there, but that may have been a tough one to, uh, to talk you into. Okay. A little follow-up. Talk me into then talk me into not being critical at all of the front office for doing it this way if they get smoked in the secondary throughout the season. Well, I think that they I think they knew that that was part of they knew that that was a possibility when they took this route. And I don't think that that really should be criticized because this isn't an all in team. This is a team that is, as we've discussed, kind of living in multiple worlds where they said, all right, let's let's let's do what we can to build for the future. Let's get a Caleb Evans a year of growth and try to see if we can help Andrew Booth get on track.

And let's bring in Makai Blackman and Jay Ward and let's go sign Byron Murphy and Juwan Williams who are former second round picks I mean very they've very had very different rookie careers but rookie contract tenures but they're guys coming off of rookie contracts who are in their mid-20s lots of physical ability like let's let's bring as many options in as we can to build for the future at cornerback and hope it works out in the short term and and you know best of luck brian flores if it doesn't i think that's fine i think they they are trying to put to get put the best defense they can on the field in 2024 and in 2025 and this is about evaluating and figuring out who that's going to be and and so while i say i would understand for this year with with the division being what it is and being pretty wide open if they wanted to bring in a veteran, you also don't have to. I mean, I think it was smart that they didn't sign Patrick Peterson to the contract that the Steelers gave him or give Duke Shelley whatever the Raiders gave it.

Like, build for the future. Figure out what you have in this scheme and who fits. And if it works out this year, that's great because they, they want to win this year, but the bigger, more ultimate kind of goal is being good at and building a sustainably good secondary in 2024 and beyond in, in post Harrison Smith world and figuring out how that's going to work. So I think you've done a terrific job there in your follow-up.

Talk me into, however, I am conflicted because in a way by my theories of team building and so forth, looking forward, focusing on the quarterback position, my thought is, well,

look, if these guys struggle and it doesn't turn out to be that good and you end up with seven wins and you get the 12th overall pick or something. Well, what a shame it would be if you traded up from there to get your quarterback and did what Carolina did this last year to get Bryce Young. That would be actually quite good for the franchise in the long-term future. But the part that sort of does stick a little bit is when you say like, oh, it's fine if it doesn't go well. It's not fine if it doesn't go well, because it's not a rebuild. It's a competitive rebuild and you didn't trade your quarterback. And I promise that there were teams out there that would trade a second round, third round pick, whatever it might be for Kirk cousins. If you wanted to rebuild and you could sign Andy Dalton and you could have a

seven win season or a six win season and draft 11th and trade up and do all those things without having the competitive part matters to me, because that's what you said. You said that that was going to be a big part of this. So I have to hold you to that standard and still keep that in consideration. And then go back and wonder, hey, if you handled your situation a little bit better when it came to the salary cap to create more space earlier by moving on from Delvin Cook, maybe you get a veteran in here. Maybe you should have anticipated that because your goals, not mine, your goals are to win. So when they lose, I'm not going to come on and be like, ah, well, yeah. Right. Like, no, you, you said you were going to win. So you have

to win. I think that there is something to that. And if you get smoked with corners that no one's ever heard of well then we are going to go back i think and say what well that was supposed to be the competitive part and you were supposed to compete for your division again because that's the decisions you made in the offseason yeah that's fair i i think they i think there's part of them that definitely believes that they can do it again with this group that they have i mean you look at last year they weren't a good team by predictive metrics but they won 13 games with and just an abysmal secondary and past defense and i mean even you had great seasons from harrison smith and patrick peterson and the whole thing was still really bad because

of the scheme so i think they believe that with some young kind of a younger refresh and a new scheme that's going to just work better in at every level of the defense that they can still fulfill the competitive part but I agree with you I you have you have talked me into not that that's maybe what we were doing there but you have talked me into that being a legitimate kind of thing to watch it and something that we may revisit down the line. All right. I'll give you a tougher one here. Talk me into I should care about the preseason, and it matters,

and there are real things that we can learn and benefit and use it for. Folks, as the season approaches, guess what I'm doing? For all my road trips, I'm figuring out what other sports games I can go to. And you know who's giving me a huge hand with this? It's game time. Buying tickets to your favorite events should not be stressful, and game time is the fast and easy way to buy tickets for all sports, music, comedy, and theater near you. With killer deals on last-minute tickets and their best price guarantee,

you can stop stressing over the tickets and start getting hyped for all the fun you have. So I can just say, travel to Philadelphia and pull up the GameTime app and figure it out on the fly. Flash deals for last minute tickets, easy to find and buy tickets for any kind of event. It doesn't just have to be baseball or basketball like what I love. And images are shown of your seats. You get the lowest price guarantee and event cancellation protection. Download the GameTime app, create an account, and use the code INSIDER for $20 off your first purchase.

Terms apply. Again, create an account, redeem code INSIDER for $20 off. Download GameTime today. Last minute tickets, lowest price, guaranteed. Give me a second. Give me a minute i gotta think um it's like a debate club you don't get to choose your side of the argument so you've got to craft something here i think that there are probably ways to use the preseason as an evaluation tool that the Vikings regime at the moment is not really fully using. How about put it that way? That you could deploy a more intense atmosphere

and a more serious tool to evaluate if you actually called adjustments and plays that might beat what the other defense is showing that's the hardest part is so they give up like 280 yards rushing or something to the titans and after the game it's like hard to even ask about like hey you know you got smoked for a ton of yards on the ground but we all know what the answer is going to be yeah we were running defenses that weren't even designed to stop those plays. And guess what? We gave up a bunch of yards. Uh, yeah. And so when you're not even attempting to put in some sort of serious, uh, game plan, and I don't even mean game plan as in like a Sunday game plan, like spend all your time. I mean, to give the wide receivers a true chance to really be evaluated, the quarterbacks to truly

be evaluated, then maybe you can get something out of it. I think that there is something to game reps when you're actually playing a real game instead of just sort of a nudge, nudge, wink, wink sort of game. And I do think that the guys who are trying to make the team are out there trying. I'm not saying that they're not running hard and they're not playing hard, but you're really not attempting to give them a true chance to show what they can do because your decisions have already been made. So for this team, and I'm okay with it, I'm okay with it. This is not a criticism, the way that they're doing it. They're evaluating everything in practice. And this is for promotional purposes only. Look, the Minnesota Vikings opened the doors to their stadium, come sit in the stands. And it's a nice place to be. We were there for Taylor Swift,

but it's not at all any sort of legitimate football game. So if they were doing that, the Ravens who went all their preseason games. I think those games really mattered to Mike Zimmer. I think he really cared about those. And so we would get up a little bit for those preseason games with Mike Zimmer. All right, let's see who's playing where, who's standing out in these games. And we saw Zimmer make decisions based on what he deployed in preseason and who stood out. I think it was Holton Hill who was going to get cut and then had a really good fourth preseason game and was like number 53. Didn't turn out to be anything in the long run, but that was one of the things that he did.

So it matters for some. Here's where it could matter in the future. If the Vikings draft a quarterback, if you're playing Anthony Richardson, if you're playing Bryce Young, if you're playing CJ Stroud, those reps actually do matter. That guy's in the huddle getting the calls in. It's an actual football atmosphere. He's throwing it and playing against actual NFL players, even if they're not scheming

in the same way. And that is a development tool that if someday Jordan Love turns out to be good, I think we're going to go back and go, well, this guy got four preseasons where he played a ton in those games and he was ready for that atmosphere. If they had not played him at all or not taken it seriously at all and tried to develop him in those games, then whatever. For the current iteration of the Minnesota Vikings, I made this suggestion last night. Show up to watch warm-ups. It's pretty fun.

Make sure you get there early and then leave after the first or second quarter because it's just not a real game for them. But I think that, and I think a little bit Seattle was for some players to see who was playing and kind of how some of the young guys played. But I think it will be in the future. If they draft whoever a quarterback, then we are really

going to pay a lot of attention. And I think they're going to pay a lot of attention. So for now, sorry to anybody who had a ticket. Hopefully you just brought little kids and they enjoyed the game and had some hot dogs or whatever, but maybe next year, maybe. year maybe yeah i i like the angle you took with that that it could matter in the future if they did things differently from the way they're doing them and it's an interesting thing you're right like it just seems kevin o'connell just does not like he he treats it differently than i think a lot of other people do like people don't teams don't play their starters kevin o'connell really doesn't play his starters he does not care about these reps for his ones at all he uses the joint practices as a substitute for that which is an interesting thing in and of itself because those are valuable

we can't tackle in joint practices and i think when i'm watching this game yesterday it's like none of these guys can tackle and that's just, it's just not something that you can really practice. And it's just, all right, we're going to, we're going to learn on the fly. And I mean, there's like Harrison Smith obviously knows how to tackle, but like, there's guys like a Caleb Evans who is a first team player who needs to work on tackling and not using his head to do so. And you just, you just can't really do that in practice

you can simulate it up to a certain point um so i think like that's where you could maybe make an argument to use some more of your young kind of first team guys to just work on the tackling aspect of things and and the the physicality stuff but uh yeah Kevin O'Connell does not really seem to care about this the Vikings are now 0-5 in preseason games under Kevin O'Connell I was I was thinking about they haven't won a preseason game since it was the second to last game in 2019 I was actually there as a fan I remember Dalvin Cook had an 85 yard touchdown run and that was pretty exciting like nothing like that happens in in these preseason game Mike you're right that Mike Zimmer seemed to just put a little more emphasis on it but it's it's just a kind of interesting thing to think about as a whole like what is more useful these

preseason games these joint practices the combination how you do how do you deploy it like and for quarterbacks especially it can be valuable like I think Treyrey Lance just needs to play as much preseason football as he can just to kind of have those game reps. That's somebody who stands out. I think he even mentioned that after the Niners' most recent game. But ultimately, yeah, I am at the point where I am just so ready. I'm like, do we really have to do another one of these next Saturday? Do we really have to spend another five, six hours in U.S. Bank Stadium?

So I'm ready for the regular season. I will say, if U.S. Bank Stadium brings the food like they did last night, I'm good. That's okay. I'll show up. And I will try to write a takeaways article about that football game. But it is a challenge. Not that anyone should cry any tears for us,

but I did think after 2020 did come to my mind, maybe they should just kill this thing altogether and just not have preseason at all. But the one thing that is a hard point to defeat is for quarterbacks. This is a league that is so hard to play quarterback and also has pretty much stopped developing quarterbacks at this point. You're either a really great right away and then you're in and

you're a franchise quarterback and you're Joe Burrow or you're not great right away and good luck in retirement. I mean, you just don't get many other chances. And usually like a Sam Darnold, somebody will trade for you once and then it's over. But it's not like there were some instances in the earlier 2000s where a Matt Hasselbeck was a backup for a while and developed and got his chance. A Mark Brunel did the same kind of thing. And I know that's showing my age, but you'd like to see that again. again and whether maybe someday it's using tools like the xfl or usfl which the vikings just signed an xfl quarterback jordan tuamo who has been great in those side leagues but you would love to see guys find opportunities to play and you almost wish there was more of those than just three per year for somebody who is a development quarterback like Like how many total reps is Jaron Hall actually

get it? I mean, 30, 40 over the preseason, maybe he plays the whole game against Arizona and we really make it not matter. But I mean, a guy like that, how do you develop in the off season running routes on air? It's not like you could get a whole team together. I mean, it's not like, like a baseball hitter could stay in shape by taking 95 mile an hour fastballs from his friend who's a pitcher, but it's not like you could do that as a quarterback. It's so hard. So I am a little bit, uh, wait, actually I was talking you into it, but I am of the belief that for the quarterback position and there's nothing more valuable in the sport that does matter and i think it does help some of those guys and you know you want to see them get as many reps as possible uh

last one here for me so the the vikings are going to be practicing against the arizona cardinals i i don't think that you could talk about too many franchises more down on their luck at this point than the arizona cardinals maybe if cleveland's bad this year then they're like in for deshaun watson for life and they're gonna fire us the fanski and then they're just same old browns but i can't think of too many who works maybe the raiders i mean it's anyway they're like bottom three talk me into the arizona cardinals getting to an NFC championship before the Minnesota Vikings. Okay, I will. Here's what's going to happen.

The Arizona Cardinals are going to be one of the worst teams in the league this year. They are going to be very bad. Kyler Murray is not healthy, right? I haven't followed their offseason super closely because it's the Arizona Cardinals, but I'm pretty sure he's not healthy and it's not, there isn't exactly a set timeline for when he will be. I don't think he's going to miss the whole year, but the quarterback's Colt McCoy right now, if I'm not mistaken,

or like in like Clayton Toon, I believe is the backup. Some rookie out of some college that isn't a big brand name college that I cannot think of right now. They're going to be really bad this year and then they're going to get the number one overall pick and they might also trade kyler murray or do something along those lines and have another top pick and they're gonna get caleb williams and they're gonna build around him and he's going to be extremely good borderline like the elite level after a year or two in that kind of Herbert Lawrence tier if not the Burrow Allen tier I'm not even going to

bring up Patrick Mahomes because there is nobody else's Patrick Mahomes Caleb Williams does draw some stylistic comparisons to Patrick Mahomes but he's going to be really good really quickly and they have some other pieces young pieces on their team uh I think maybe if not they'll add them they'll find them and they will prove that bottoming out and then building up is just as it has been for a long time an easier way to get to the top than trying to stay in the middle forever and be 500 and make the wilfs happy and sell tickets and then somehow you're gonna you're gonna break out of that and go to the top and uh they're gonna get to the nsc championship game before

the vikings and we're gonna be like oh yeah that's actually not uh shocking that that happened yeah i think that's all true uh i mean when you're starting colt mccoy and your roster is awful and you don't even have deandre hopkins who i'm not sure i thought looked great this week i don't know maybe he's just taking it easy but i don't know i think he was just kind of going through the motions yeah that's probably true i i don't want to overdo it for someone like him he's probably saying just don't get me hurt in these joint practices, but I don't know how much of an impact he's really going to make if trail on Berks is out for any amount of time with Tennessee, but that's not the point. It's, it's a clear model to go to the bottom, draft the quarterback

and go back up the only thing. And I keep in mind also that Houston made that kind of crazed trade with them right wasn't that them that the yeah don't they have they have another top pick right is that Arizona that has two Houston traded up for Anderson yeah I should know this off the top of my head but I think I think Arizona might like the people are in in the early way way way too early 2024 mock drafts they get like the top two picks and then they get marvin harrison jr too so that makes it even easier to talk you into if you get that duo it most certainly does yeah i got so excited there i punched my microphone uh but and this this is not a scenario that the Vikings ever could have really copied, even if they had traded Kirk Cousins. Because in a scenario that you trade Kirk Cousins, you sign some veteran to make sure that you're still in the mix.

Colt McCoy is pretty clear not an NFL starting quarterback. Would love to have him as a backup to play two games if you have to, but he's not a starting quarterback. And it just seems like this is, this is the point about the Vikings is that the path is just so much clearer for a team that's tanking than it is for a team that's competitive rebuilding. And I brought up the idea of Kyler Murray on the show for the Vikings. Like, well, if they're going to draft Caleb Williams, then maybe you make that phone call and try to pair Kyler Murray with Justin Jefferson. I know Murray had some struggles against Los Angeles, but I'd be very curious to know what Kevin O'Connell thinks of Kyler Murray. If he has a low or high opinion of him, I have no idea, but I, you know, maybe he'll just walk up to us and

tell us after this podcast that maybe that'll happen and we'll know. But, you know, I feel like that the door is so wide open, almost to the point where it's like recently I was moving, as you notice from the new background. How do you like it? Nice. I feel like I feel like you need to get some more decoration. You know, we're doing these shows so often. Well, but, you know, when you're moving moving if you know what neighborhood you're going to you are very clear about what you're looking for like it's this neighborhood and this type of house and that's what we're doing but if you just say we're moving to somewhere in minneapolis or saint paul i i don't know if you get a house faster because there's just so many options and so many different like you can get, uh, I guess, overwhelmed with that kind of thing, or you can end up, um, sort of just out on, out on the

cold where you can't find what you're looking for because there's just, it's so vast. So that could be with the Vikings as well. I don't know if that's a perfect metaphor, but you get what I'm saying. If you're tanking, the direction is clear. If you're not, it's much more muddy because now you need some of these defensive players to hit. You need younger players to develop. You need to keep together what you have and not have anything go wrong with what you think you have for the future.

And then figure out a way to get that guy through a trade, through free agency, or through the draft. But how you do that is unclear. The only way that this doesn't happen is, of course, if Caleb Williams is a bust. But also, we shouldn't just assign Caleb Williams to them. I mean, if Kyler Murray comes back week 10 and they win some games, the biggest thing that they could do to hurt themselves,

let's say Houston is competent and gets the 10th pick, and they get fifth instead of first. And then they're drafting a cornerback or something that could leave Arizona out in the cold. And if they miss on that guy, if they don't go through all this to get the next quarterback for them, yes, Kyler Murray is good enough to get you to the playoffs, but you're probably a purgatory team. And then you're not really coming anywhere close. So if I was using the other side, the biking side, it could be as simple as you just trade a couple draft picks up to get Drake may or whoever it might be,

whoever emerges as a top quarterback and then give them just the Jefferson and Daris on Addison and you just profit. So I do think that the tanking team always is going to get a little more like, yeah, you know, they've got a better chance. But I also wouldn't say that this direction is as risky as it might be for middling teams when you have someone like Jefferson to give your next quarterback. Yeah, absolutely. And I was I was talking you into the Cardinals thing, but that path is obviously littered with risks. You could just become the Jaguars or the Lions and then just be terrible for a long time, and that's not great.

You don't want to do that. You don't want to become just a perennial cellar dweller and try on quarterbacks like the Browns and never really figure it out. So it's not a direct criticism of the Vikings' approach. I think there have been times a few years back, later under the previous regime, where they had a real opportunity to go that direction and chose not to.

But I'm not blaming the current regime for what they've done since coming in in 2022 and seeing what they had and saying, okay, this is good enough to go in 13 games and set up this foundation and try to competitive rebuild and build a winning culture and all these things like the Cardinals don't have Justin Jefferson and Christian Derrissaw and Daniel Hunter like you can't the Vikings can't just push a button and be terrible all of a sudden like that's not the way to do it I understand what they're doing but like you said the path is just a lot muddier and and it's it's less clear

how it's going to happen it totally definitely could happen they could trade up like you said to go get a quarterback or they could just one of these years just put it all together magically with kirk cousins i think that's less likely but it's not impossible so um yeah it it's an interesting look with the cardinals coming in this week at two teams who are definitely in different spots. Okay, very last thing for you. It's been a fun episode of Talk Me Into. What is the thing left we need to find out? We've got another week.

They seem to be excited about these competitive practices. What's left? I mean, I feel like we've solved a lot of the problems. We're ready for the actual football to start, but there are still some things on the table. What in your mind is left to be determined? Well, outside of it being August 20th and Justin Jefferson and TJ Hawkinson

still not having contract extensions, football-wise on the field this week, Arizona, I don't know. I would love to see some of the guys who are currently injured come back and compete and see how they fit into things. I would love to see Brian Asma be healthy, and let's have a real battle this week between him and Ivan Pace Jr. and see who's going to be starting next to Jordan Hicks. Because if Austin was not healthy all week, that's going to be Pace, I think.

Troy Reeder stinks. It's going to be Ivan. Like, there's no other. Troy Dye had a cool interception, but he's still a special teams guy, mostly, in my eyes. I would love to see Kanae Wongwu be out there. And, like, does he have a pulse in the RB2 conversation? Or do we need to start talking about Aaron Dykes a lot more?

I'd love to see Jalen Naylor get back out there. And who's going to be the wide receiver for? Because he's been out so long that if that's Tristan Jackson or Brandon Powell, or maybe Jalen Rager, I suppose, then that wouldn't shock me either. So I can't really like control that and make that happen. Like if they're still injured, they're not going to be playing. But that would be what I would be looking for elsewhere.

I don't know. You'd have, you'd have to stretch to come up with, with something too interesting roster wise. I think the 53 is starting to become pretty settled. I agree with you. And it's really who actually comes up to practice, who gets off the injury list and plays.

And then is there any battle left for those guys who weren't practicing? And do they sign any veterans? I mean, those are the big things for me. And then of course the contract extensions. So anyway, great stuff. We'll really appreciate your time.

We will be all, all the way through the season. I mean, it's go time. It is go time now. So I'm ready for some hardcore, hardcore previews and things of that nature. I know,

I know. Meaningful football games. It's not, not that far away. I know that's, what's been missing. It was like, they have a great three technique.

How are they going to handle it? That's where we are very close to that. So, uh, thanks Will. And thanks everybody for listening as always. And we'll catch you next time. Folks. The weather is still wonderful as we head into football season. And let me tell you, I am out there at the grill every night and thank goodness that I have found the Netflix for barbecue. Yes, that is Grill Masters Club. It is the perfect solution for all barbecue lovers looking to up their grilling and smoking game. Their team of certified pitmasters at Grill Masters Club has cracked the code on delivering award-winning small batch barbecue products on whatever works with your schedule. This is the best part. Bi-monthly, quarterly, pause, update. They're not going to just keep charging you when

you're not using it. Only use it when you want to, which of course is all throughout the summer and fall for me. With each Grillmasters Club theme box, you get five curated barbecue products. That's sauces, marinades, spice rubs, grilling tools. Plus, each month, their team of barbecue experts comes up with custom recipes and tips that provide endless ways to use their amazing products. Trust me, a subscription for barbecuers of all levels is an absolute must. Go to grillmasters.com to take your grilling and smoking to the next level. I know that I have. I am still an amateur.

I am not the next level, but they are improving me every day at Grillmasters Club. And you can get 50% off Grillmasters Club with the promo code PURPLE. 50% off promo code PURPLE.