Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Will TJ Hockenson play against the Commanders? Why did the Lions trade him? Should we look forward to Buffalo already?

Episode Date: November 4, 2022

Matthew Coller and Sports Illustrated Vikings reporter Will Ragatz talk about TJ Hockenson's role right away, how he impacts the offense (and where he might not). Vikings fans appear to be looking past Washington and Matthew puts his perfect record of picking games this year on the line Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider presented by Liquid Death. Go to liquiddeath.com slash insider and learn about the Tallboy can, which actually has water. Find out where you can get it near you at liquiddeath.com slash insider. Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with Will Raggett's Inside TCO Performance Center. And Will, last week we plead or pleaded or something with each other, however it's used correctly.

We gave our pleas to the Vikings to make a big trade and look, they did it. So they listen to this show and do whatever we say. That's the whole point here. But on the show, we've kind of talked about TJ Hawkinson a lot and people have more questions for the fans only. So in order to catch up on them, I think we should read them and you don't have a choice because that's what we're doing here today.

I am happy to do it. Glad to be here as always. And yeah, a lot to talk about right now. The Vikings still have not won since my birthday, like six weeks ago in Philly. So I have not lost, sorry,

since, since then. So yeah, kind of a lot of positive vibes. And we've talked about them over the last six weeks and they're just, they're still going here. They most certainly are. And this, I think, helped ramp up things even more as far as, well, here's a real quick debate. I have called this pushing the chips to the middle of the table. Now, this is not trading three firsts for Brian Burns or whatever Los Angeles was willing to do the full bleep them picks, which L.A., that's not a long-term thing, my friends. It is not.

But I still think this is because one player goes down that you probably could have worked around since the tight end position has given you nothing. And you could have said, no, we're going to hang on to that draft capital. And instead you traded for a player who is soon to become expensive. Like, yes, he can be part of your long-term future. Every move doesn't have to either be exactly today or exactly long-term. It can fit into both both buckets but giving up that much draft capital and and i i know again it's like not selling the whole franchise but to get a player of this caliber i think it does say like we are really going for it we are going to solve this weakness we're going to bring in somebody who can be moved around the slot he can even play outside if you

need him to like this is a difference making player which to me says the bar is raised for what they think of this season because if they thought this team was a fraudulent six and one they would say we're gonna hang on to that draft capital make sure we're picking in the second round also keep draft capital for moving up for a quarterback but instead they decide to put it into TJ Hawkinson. But you may see it differently than an all-in move like I look at it. I don't see it as an all-in move, but I agree that, and this is what we asked them to do last week, they recognize their situation.

Even if maybe they don't think, and being realistic, they're not on the level of the Eagles, Bills, Chiefs, maybe even like the Cowboys and 49ers, but they're not that far off. And you look around at the NFC like we talked about, and it's wide open the path for them to get the two seed. Like they should be the two seed in the NFC if they just kind of go six and four the rest of the way or whatever it might be. So I applaud them for that, for recognizing that. And to some extent it is an all-in move.

Like you're focusing on this season and capitalizing on your opportunity and getting a really good player in TJ Hawkinson. But the reason I liked it is that it's not like you said, it's not really going all, all-in. Like, it fits the competitive rebuild that Kweisi has talked about, kind of the time horizons. You have this two-year window where Kirk Cousins is under contract next year as well. They got a lot of guys, even the minor guys they traded for, like Jalen Rager, Ross Blacklock, they're under contract

next year as well. So it's not like this has to be 2022 or bust. They have next year as well with TJ Hawkinson, he'll be on a fifth- year option unless they extend him this offseason and you can kind of evaluate it that way and so I I liked it I think it's it's a really good move to add somebody who I think is going to fit super well in this offense compliment everybody else and just make this current team a lot better because even if Irv Smith hadn't gotten hurt like this was this is a huge upgrade so I liked it for that reason but also because it's not just solely like he's not like a 2022 rental set to hit free agency uh or something like that right I guess what I'm saying is I think that you can go all in with a big move for a significant player and it doesn't necessarily have to blow up after this like it doesn't have to have

an expiration date that player is allowed to stay with your team or you know have an extra year of his contract but also it means going out and sacrificing something for the future in the form of a draft asset and second rounders are starters like when you look at second round picks from this team in recent history whether it was Irv Smith was supposed to be or Delvin Cook became a pro bowler for this team in the second round. Brian O'Neill is a star for this team from the second round. Like that's usually a player you expect to be very good for you. So you're giving up that potential. Andrew Booth, I think they drafted to be a long-term starter for them, for someone who's going to be

more expensive. There is a sacrifice here to do this, even if you get to keep him long-term and he could end up being one of the highest paid players at his position. And especially when you trade for someone, you have to pay them as part of the justification. I mean, if they don't, I think that's still okay because it is more of an all-in move for this year. But I guess I think that like, just because he could stay around forever forever doesn't mean you didn't sacrifice potential things for the future and really i look at next year as like i i have no idea what that looks like how old are people how are expensive are people how are they reworking contracts how much can they do in free agency where does the draft class fit in? Where does the quarterback fit in? There's so many questions right after this season that a tight end, even if he's good,

really won't change your franchise trajectory. So it's really for this year. And then I think next year, there's a lot of things that are going to not be the same as they were this year. And to be competitive again, the things that went right this year will have to go right again next year. So yeah, I think there is a few different ways to look at it, but I kind of look at it in context of the bigger picture where Hawkinson is not going to be central to where they

go after 2022. He is going to be central to where they go in 2022, right? Yeah, no, that's fair. And I think I agree though, that you went in trading for him. I think the long term plan is probably to extend him and to keep him around. I mean, you have the last 10 games of this season to kind of evaluate how he fits. And if it's not a perfect fit, like for whatever reason, then maybe that changes things. But I think that is kind of part of of the justification of the move. It'll be interesting to see how that works with all the different contracts justin jefferson's got to get paid soon kurt cousins for as long as you have them is going to cost a lot of money um so so various things like that but one thing i did like about the trade um like yeah they gave

up valuable draft picks but they didn't give up in terms of quantity of picks they didn't give anything up like they got the picks back in later rounds. If you think about it, like the Vikings second round pick, if they keep this up, could be very late in the second round. The Detroit Lions fourth round pick could be pretty early in the fourth round. So like maybe not as big of a difference there as if you just kind of look at it on the surface dropping two rounds. And then the conditional pick in 2024 as well,

that could be a fourth or a fifth. So yeah, I like the way it was structured in terms of getting that back kind of a bet on on your personnel staff and your ability to maybe find like a Caleb Evans type players in the fourth round who looks like he I mean that total projection but looks like he could be an interesting cornerback piece at some point so yeah I liked it for a lot of the ways it was structured and it is a move to make them better this year and to capitalize on this team. But I see TJ Hawkinson being a big part of their offense in 2023 as well and probably beyond that. Yeah, I think so too. And it really answers a question for the future of who's going to be at

that position because the way that Irv Smith played and I know that, you know, Kweisi and Kevin O'Connell went out of their way to say Irv was coming along. He was looking better. And I'm sure that there's truth to that. He was not fitting. He was just not fitting. I mean, it's a hard position to find like a star at. Like I would say he's what in the top six or something at the position. Like he's not Travis Kelsey or Mark Andrews but with his size

his athleticism his blocking ability ability his yards after the catch ability like there aren't many guys like that so to get one who's 25 years old he could be a fixture like the things he talked about yesterday if teams are trying to play too high and take away Justin Jefferson there's a lot of things that he can do in the middle of the field against the safeties to kind of combat that like just those two alone you figure out the other pieces later. I don't know how much Adam Thielen and K.J. Osborne will be like really long term key guys, maybe K.J. Osborne. But those two guys, T.J. Hawkinson and Justin Jefferson, I could see that being a good pairing for Kirk Cousins or for any quarterback for for quite some time. I totally agree. And I think when you think about foundational pieces,

like whether KJ Osborne is here or not in the future, I mean, that's a guy who you can replace. But it's hard to replace one of the six to ten best tight ends in the league, and it's hard to impossible to replace Justin Jefferson or Christian Derrissaw the way he's playing or Brian O'Neill the way he's playing. And those are foundational pieces. All those guys are young, so they will be here.

And when you think about the long-term prospects of the quarterback position, I don't think this thing goes through 2026. But some of these players do. These foundational pieces with Jefferson is going to be, what, 23 next year. And Hockinson will be 26. And Derisal will be 23 or 24 and o'neill will still have many years left to go i mean these guys can be here for a long time and them alone you should be able to fill in the pieces save for having the worst right guard in football uh other than that

but i mean you should be able to fill in sir cleveland's been good he'll probably he'll probably be here for a while yeah yeah no i agree with that I'm not ready to say foundational piece yeah no no not on the level of those other guys right uh and of course Ty Chandler had those 15 runs in preseason so he is also a megastar uh he he could be though he has some potential he looked good to be a star he really did means nothing but uh all right let's get to some of these fan questions this one comes from David via email says with the trade this week i keep thinking about a 538 article about kirk cousins needing tight ends it was written prior to him signing with the vikings could hawkinson unlock something for kirk does more play action and two tight end

sets make them more competitive for the likes of the bills in two weeks your thoughts i think it's a good point. I haven't read the article being mentioned, but look at Kirk Cousins' career going back to Washington. He had Vernon Davis. He had Jordan Reed, like athletic tight ends, and those were a big part of the numbers that he put up there, those guys utilizing the middle of the field.

I saw they showed this stat on ESPN that Kirk Cousins this year when targeting tight ends, all stats yards per attempt um passer rating whatever like all towards the bottom of the league and I mean I think that says more about the tight ends the Vikings had than it does about Kirk Cousins and so getting somebody like TJ Hawkinson in I think it makes a really big difference for Kirk Cousins and for this offense specifically, like Kevin O'Connell talked about it, like marrying the run in the pass, the tight end is a really important part of that. And picture some of those, like those bootleg rollouts where they dump it off to Johnny Munt.

Now you're dumping it off to TJ Hawkinson who can do something with the ball once he catches it. And like they can use them in tight end screens and they can do all these things on off play action or just utilizing him up the seam over the middle of the field like I think it's it's a really nice kind of they call tight ends a lot of time like the security blanket and and so for Kirk Cousins he hasn't really had that and he has Justin Jefferson who you can clearly just throw the ball up to and should do that more judging by that catch he had on on third down against the Cardinals but yeah having TJ Hawkinson I think it helps a lot

for this offense and for this quarterback I think that their production was so poor that you or I would have helped or you know I'm looking at some of the numbers right now ESPN has come out with some very interesting receiver and tight end analytics developed by an analytics legend, Brian Burke in football. And it's very interesting because it grades on a one to a hundred scale, their ability to get open, their ability to catch the football and their ability to run after the catch or like how they've performed. Right. And it's based on the NFL next gen stats. So the tracking data is telling us this. It's not like a subjective type of thing when it comes to getting open TJ Hawkinson and Irv Smith are about the same Irv Smith is 71st out of 98 and Hawkinson is 63

out of 98 and they both catch the ball about the same where the big difference is I guess Irv had that one big drop so that probably hurts his numbers but where the big difference is that yards after catch and there have been a number of plays this year where Cousins has dropped the ball down to Irv Smith on a third and six, and it's gone for three. Or a third and ten, and it's gone for seven. It just happened in the game on Sunday, if I'm not mistaken. It did. And with Irv, initially, I thought that was one of his strengths. He's just running in sand this year.

And that happens to guys who miss a ton of time. initially I thought that was one of his strengths he's just running in sand this year and that happens to guys who miss a ton of time and they need a lot of time to get back to their full speed especially with a knee injury he's never going to come out and say to us hey guys that knee injury actually took a few miles per hour off he's never going to tell us that but from my eyeballs did not have the same quickness is there some space there for a tight end to break some tackles? I mean, also the lining up in multiple spots, like I think that matters. You can treat them almost as your number two wide receiver. Like there's a lot of doors that are opened by TJ Hawkinson potentially in this offense. I don't know that it changes Kirk Cousins as a quarterback really at all. Because as you mentioned, he's had great tight ends his entire

career and Kirk is going to Kirk, but does it help the potential production of what they've done so far this year in a season where they just are having trouble getting the football to Adam Thielen more than like six yards down the field or KJ Osborne at all yeah I mean I think it is significant now the other part of that is I mean does it help them run more two tight end sets johnny month's not a threat at all so no good blocker though he's a fine blocker but i don't think i mean yeah you can throw it out there it's just like cj ham it's like you could throw it out there and mess with the other team on a play action i don't think it changes that like you could have done that before with two tight ends and they didn't really do it. And I really don't think it makes a difference against the Buffalo Bills.

I mean, the Buffalo Bills are a house. I mean, as having grown up seeing the 1993 Buffalo Bills, when they're making comparisons, the way they're playing to that team, to teams that went to four straight Super Bowls, and it's not insane, that team, yeah. And then you're going there in November. That's, yeah, I don't think that TJ Hawkinson on his second week as a bill is changing the mathematics of that one.

They are a way better team than the Minnesota Vikings. I agree. Yeah. And that'll be an interesting game to see if the Vikings can even hang in that game. The Vikings are 6-1. They've won five in a row. I keep getting that wrong. They've won five in a row. I keep getting that wrong. They've won five in a row,

and I saw they do the very early lines like a week and a half ahead. They opened up as like eight and a half, nine and a half point underdogs, which is wild. They're 6-1, but it's also very fair.

I would not be rushing out to go bet the Vikings plus eight and a half. That team is crazy. Josh Allen is an alien. Also, the Vikings' performances against number one receivers bad there's going to be a slightly motivated number one wide receiver for the buffalo bills yeah i mean and not only that but a quarterback kyler murray is what percentage of josh allen justin fields is what percentage of Josh Allen, Justin Fields is what percentage of Josh Allen for mobile quarterbacks.

Those guys are like 40% of him and they had good days. Yeah. So that's not great. But yeah, I mean, I think the defense is where you need to be concerned. I don't think running too tight ends against that team. They also have a monster defensive line. They have a great secondary. They have a great defensive coach. There is no weakness on that team um so our next question actually also pertains to that people really overlooking washington here um yeah come on taylor heineke kirk cousins dueling revenge games uh and we're just and we're just looking ahead to buffalo you have to stay focused on the next game people yeah this is a this is a trap game for fans not the team uh because it's kirk revenge game they'll be paying attention

but fans they're getting trapped. This comes from Christian. Pretty obvious that our biggest test of the year will be against the bills. That being said, I watched Packers and bills on Sunday night and noticed that the Packers had a lot of success running the ball to the outside, especially on pitches. Why the Packers didn't keep doing that. I can't understand. Is that something the Vikings can exploit with Derrissaw and O'Neal and be able to set the edge and now Hawkinson added to that mix I think that's the only way we have a chance to be able to run in the quick passing game the Bills defensive line is the Vikings worst possible

nightmare no I mean I agree with that the Bills a lot of things is the Vikings worst possible nightmare for this team now I guess from a perspective, they have found something in the run game and Christian Derrissaw is a monster. I mean, I'm ready to call him an elite player at his position, maybe a top five player at his position already. That's the way he is played. Do I think that pitching the football to the outside to Delvin Cook over and over again can beat the Buffalo Bills? No, I do not. I don't think that evens the score I don't think that gives you much of a chance I don't want to completely write it off for an NFL game but that I mean this one is a is a huge mismatch in so many ways but I do think that this running game and them

having so much success against Arizona which had been pretty good against the run like that's that gives them a chance to have a more dangerous offense down the stretch if they found something with the running game that works for them yeah it's it's an interesting thing to think about because the way that question was phrased too I I was looking watching that Packers Bills game and I was like they're down 27 to 10 why are they still running the ball so much when they have Aaron Rodgers that that didn't make sense to me maybe he's saying they specifically went away from running it to the outside. I don't know the exact details of that.

But, yeah, if you're the Vikings, on the one hand, a good way to try to beat the Bills would be sustain drives, get the running game going. This is like the classical football thinking, keep Josh Allen on the sidelines. And that's legit. You want that guy to be on the sidelines as much as possible. But that's the whole idea of this Vic Fangio defense.

And it's hard to sustain those drives and to not make a mistake against a defense with so much talent up front in the secondary linebackers. That's hard, especially because if you turn it over or whatever you have to punt they can score so fast and like that's the chiefs thing the bills thing like it's so hard to beat a team with an elite elite quarterback and an efficient passing offense because they can just drop back and throw the ball 65 yards in the air and score a touchdown and then you're like what just happened we've been trying to run these boots and four yard carries to march down the whole field and it's just it just it the playing field is not level when you're talking about those things. So I think the Vikings, again, I mean, focus on the commanders.

But once they get to that Bills game, like, they're going to have to try to find ways to hit big plays of their own and maybe let Kirk loose through the air a little bit and try to use your, your number one advantage over anybody, which is Justin Jefferson. Folks, you've heard me talk about liquid death and I'm glad to see that some of you are getting on board. I got a great tweet from a listener the other day talking about how liquid death has helped him kick sugary drinks and slim down. And also for the longest time, my wife was the type of person to carry a water bottle everywhere because she didn't like the idea of buying so many plastic bottles. Well, that's the reason it's called Liquid Death, to bring an end to plastic bottles and instead use aluminum cans which are easier to recycle for profit and do not end up turning into trash.

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then peyton manning wins 14 games let's try to keep tom brady off the field wins like a 90th super bowl like i don't know man i don't think it's working uh because nothing works when you when they have josh allen or patrick mahomes nothing works uh except for scoring which is matching them because your defense is not defense is just not stopping them. It simply is not. Zedarius Smith has blasted through to backup offensive tackles unless he faces a backup offensive tackle. Oh, yeah, but it also doesn't matter because Josh Allen doesn't get sacked,

which is the craziest part of Josh Allen. And, again, we're talking too much about the Bills game when they're playing Washington, but he does not get sacked. Usually running quarterbacks. That was Kyler last week. Like he's built like TJ Hawkinson and he plays quarterback. Oh, that's the part I was going to mention. Uh, TJ Hawkinson doesn't help you in the run game. Like the more I looked at it.

So initially I thought the same thing. Cause I looked at his size and I was like, oh, well, okay. He's a beefy gentleman. Right. He's a big guy. Also. I don't know if he actually, like we stood next a big guy also i don't know if he actually like we stood next to him yesterday i don't know if he actually weighs 244 i don't think so i think he put some rocks in the pockets like at the combine uh that's not an accusation he could weigh himself in front of me and i could be wrong but just you know we're around

a lot of uh big men he's not the biggest guy i've ever seen at that position. I don't think he's a good run blocker or a difference-making run blocker from watching him back from his games this year. And so it's kind of you're going to have to survive that position the same way you have been. And it's Johnny Munt

if you need a difference maker there. Yeah, the one thing I saw somebody tweeted was his numbers, if you go to the advanced PFF metrics, his numbers in zone blocking as a run blocker are better than in the gap power stuff that the Lions run a lot of. And the Vikings run a lot of zone stuff, so maybe that'll help.

But yeah, he's not George Kittle. Let's make that clear, who is just an absolute mauler in the run game. I do think he'll be an above- above average run blocker here maybe maybe average but he's been well below average by the pff grades and and like that's he's lining up in the slot a lot he's a receiving tight end like he's what you wanted irv to be you had to you had to spend two for or two second round picks to get irv what you really really wanted from Irv, like a second on Irv and a second on TJ Hawkinson. But they have it. And I just think that when you're talking about,

can they use him as a weapon in the run game? Not really. And as far as putting two tight ends on the field and not having a great blocking from one of them, like that's what you already had. So I don't see that changing. Where they're good though, is the run blocking from the actual offensive linemen and that might give them a

chance against buffalo but i think you're gonna have to have justin jefferson go for like 200 uh okay we'll talk about that more next thursday though actually yeah that's gonna be well i'll work that out with you later i'm going to actually be in buffalo but we can do a zoom anyway you're going out there like earlier next week? Yeah, I'm going to go out there early to visit family and friends before the game. So unfortunately, next week I'll miss Matt Daniels' press conference. Incredible stuff today. But okay, next question, next question.

This is from at Orange Suds on Twitter. Talk me into Kirk Cousins' play hasn't diminished much this year, given the fact that he hasn't had the opportunities to pad his stats during multiple score deficits like he did in 2020 and 2021. Uh, so basically saying that the box score stats are not really telling us the truth that Kirk is the same Kirk. It's just been circumstantial. I don't agree with that. I don't see Kirk being as good as he's been. And I don't think last year was garbage time stats. Didn't they play every game one score? I don't think it was garbage time stats. I just think that he is less comfortable. He's not throwing the football as hard and his movement in the pocket is even maybe more spotty

than it's been uh and last week he i mean took a couple of pretty bad sacks where you're not moving you get strip sacked in a key moment like no i and by what he's said also and this would kind of be the i can't talk you into this because yesterday kirk cousin said this is not a good stretch for me and we've walked out of the stadium six and one which i also think is passive aggressive him qb wincing us on that but like he's done this numerous times in his career where he's had very good stretches um even in 2015 with washington he won five out of the last six games to get them in the playoff so it's not that unique but i just don't believe that he's playing the same level of football that we've seen him play over his first few years as the Vikings quarterback yeah I don't think it's he's that far off from it and I think

there's a a valid like understandable reason which is that he's still I mean we're still only seven games in I know we're approaching the midway point but seven games into a completely new offense new terminology new everything everything, really. And he's talked a lot about how he's taken some time to get comfortable in that. I think he's, for the most part, he's been usual Kirk, just like slightly less comfortable Kirk because he's in a new system. And there's been the whole thing where some of these high-low reads, he's had guys open downfield and hasn't taken it. He's working through that.

He's working through kind of getting on the same page with Kevin O'Connell and what he wants. I agree, though, that he has not... This has not been, by any means, his best stretch of football as a Vikings quarterback, which is actually a decent argument against QB wins because I still believe that over a long period of time, a large sample size, if you are a very, very good quarterback, you will make up for a lot of your

circumstances and win more games than you lose. But yeah, I mean, it just goes to show the Vikings defense is playing really well. The offensive line is playing well. Justin Jefferson, the coaching is really good. Their special teams are making impact plays. Like, yes, more goes into winning games in a month or two than just the quarterback. Yeah, I would always say, too, that, like, if you want to feel free to win with special teams, turnover margin and penalties, and I'll have Peyton Manning, we'll see who does it. Right. Oh, well, oh, I have a better guard, but I have Peyton Manning. So we'll do it that way. And I bet I'll win a lot more. Anyway, that's not you know, that's not the point.

I mean, everything everything in the NFL circles around how the quarterback plays in a given year or judging a given player entirely on QB wins, of course, can be unfair, especially in a small sample. In a large sample, Jeff Garcia goes 58 and 58. I mean, that's just like middling quarterbacks end up with middling records over long periods of time, which is why Cousins has had these stretches where he goes seven and two, five and one, whatever, two five and one stretches in his career and yet still ends up hovering around 500 because usually after the rise is the fall the only difference here is that he hasn't played well and so if he plays better as you face better competition just you know you can sort of surmise that it gives them a better chance to

improve on offense if he continues to play like this they will not be a legitimate contender end of story like you don't go into the playoffs expecting to beat san francisco philadelphia teams like that if you're averaging six and a half yards per attempt and is he worse oh but i mean by the pff numbers his passing grade is down 14 points this year he has more turnover worthy throws than he has big time throws which has not been a thing for him since. Wow. I mean, you have to go back to 2015 for that to last be a thing where he didn't have more big time throws than turnover worthy plays. His turnover worthy play rate is the highest since 2017. There's a lot of numbers that suggests that he just has not been good so far this year. And that's why that's why he's saying that.

Like, guys, i haven't even been that good and we're winning so qb wins am i right but these things do have a tendency to even out so what kevin o'connell's job is and tj hawkinson's and cousins and whoever's playing right guard for the rest of the year is to make that better because you won't really go anywhere with the 16th best scoring percentage in the league the 11th best expected points added even in an nfc this week but remember you're taking all the teams that are decent or good in the playoffs like the teams that are bad don't matter you're only taking dallas you're only taking philly you're only taking san francisco and then you have to play against them so uh no, I can't really talk you into that because there's nothing that suggests that, including him saying it himself.

Well, including the score effects, too. I just don't think that score effects have been the case really this year. All right. This one comes from at Hans 19 or 1893. Not a great year, on Twitter. It says, I have a question. I'm not sure if it's too simple for fans only. You mentioned Eric Eager saying,

if you draft a tight end, you develop him for the next team, which is very common. Like these tight ends get drafted high and Eric Ebron ends up playing for somebody else. If this is public knowledge, why do teams that drafted tight ends not sign them for extensions, especially if they weren't great franchises should get a team friendly deal with low risk,

but potentially high reward. It must be frustrating to draft a player who is good. As soon as they leave your organization, it does tie into the question of why Detroit would let TJ Hawkinson go, because this happens every time where you get a player and you're like, yay, player, let's not talk about why they moved him. We got him. Why do you think Detroit moved TJ Hawkinson?

Yeah, it's a good question, and they had actually an interesting explanation. Their GM, Brad Holmes, basically came out and said, this wasn't because we were 1-6. We would have done this if we're six and one and i'm like i don't know you probably wouldn't have that's what they call a lot yeah the optics there would not have would not have been good if you're six and one and you did that uh that wouldn't have happened but anyways his point was like and i think dan campbell has touched on this that like they just didn't really view tj hawkinson as like an important enough player to kind of pay the big second contract that he wanted and maybe wasn't in their long-term plans so they

they just moved him and they moved him to a division rival which maybe says even more about what they think of him so there's always a disconnect that yeah I mean you mentioned it like Vikings fans I think are pretty universally like thrilled to have gotten TJ Hawkinson to have made that big move like you watch him and he's had an 81 yard catch and run this year and a 58 yard catch and run and he's a great athlete and all these things and he I mean he made the Pro Bowl to you a couple years ago like he's a legitimately good tight end I think for the Lions maybe it has to do with the positional value or the blocking side of things or just not feeling like he was elevating things so much more than

you're like the lions i'm sure have like three johnny munt ben ellison type of tight ends every team has those guys that maybe they feel like they can get by with that so yeah i i don't know exactly why i personally i think it was a little bit foolish from the Lions end to be giving up on this kind of really talented 25-year-old player that you drafted eighth overall not very long ago. So yeah, it's an interesting point. Yeah, a lot of teams, it seems like you draft the tight end and then he ends up maybe breaking out and really getting comfortable in the league. And I that that can take a little longer at that position and then playing well for some other team but the question makes a lot of sense though to me like if you knew that was the

case and that's something that that commonly happens why wouldn't you maybe have a little more patience and hope that that uh that breakout happens on your team because you're the one who drafted him so i i don't have a great answer for that no i mean i think you covered a lot of ground there though uh that was all correct i mean it is it is an odd thing i mean even by pff this year uh he is ranked as the eighth best tight end in the league so they've seen the work there of a top 10 player at his position by the the numbers and still decided that this wasn't a guy that they wanted to keep for long term um there's never been any like character issues or whatever uh the other day i revealed on the show that i eat hot dogs in mac and cheese maybe he does the same thing

and they thought red flag i don't know um hey don't knock it till you try it okay delicious uh but the you know i mean so like so like there's a bowl of mac and cheese yeah and you just throw a couple hot dogs and you cut them up cut them up okay all right that makes a little more sense so then almost each bite it's like it's like having mac and cheese with like chicken or bacon it's just a different meat and then when you think about like the it's still a little odd to me but maybe i'll try it like how much presentation matters if you took mac and cheese and put it on top of a hot dog people be like are you a sociopath um for some reason that sounds better to me than that actually the hot dog in the mac and cheese oh no they're both probably

great i i'm gonna have to try that what were we talking about uh tj hockinson um so there's no good answer because no one's going to give you the answer but they have an answer there is a reason my guess is that they think he's not worth being paid one of the five highest tight ends in the league long term that if you keep him through his fifth year option probably in this offseason you have to extend him uh and negotiate a new contract and if you make him a 17 or 15 million dollar a year player they must not feel like that's a good use of their salary cap for the future they also might have ideas in next year's free agency to spend on something else which they already have their eyeballs on that we don't know about and said you know what if if we got to sacrifice something let's sacrifice tj hawkinson

to that and also also the gm lied and like them being one and six and looking towards the future is is a factor in that and getting a second round pick and but it's a weird comment though because it almost seems like a slam of hawkinson doesn't it yeah like we would have traded you at six and one yeah we don't need you get out of here go away go to the real midwest? That's an odd comment. It really is an odd comment. I guess we're going to have to find out as we watch him. Was there something there, or were they just kind of being foolish by letting go a young player who might have been worth it?

And I had this thought earlier when we were talking about TJ Hawkinson. Would you say we expect him to be second in targets and receptions on this team the rest of the year I would yeah yeah because I think Adam Thielen's still in the mix I mean he gets like seven to nine targets a game but I think TJ Hawkinson might take away from some of that because like they're going to kind of operate in in similar spaces in the field in that short intermediate area um I I would I don't think I think Johnny Munt might even out snap him on Sunday in Washington and Dillon will still be very involved in that and KJ Osborne. But pretty quickly, Bill's game, Cowboys game, Patriots, they play three games in 12 days against teams that are combined 16 and

seven. So I think TJ Hawkinson is going to become a big part of that game plan quickly. Folks, I know you've heard me talk about SodaStick for a long time now, but I'm telling you, you have to start following them on social media for new fresh gear they are releasing all the time. Of course, they have the classics like the Moss Moon design and the Metrodome shirts and hoodies. But as the local teams go along in their seasons, SodaStick is constantly putting out new stuff,

whether it's the new Horn State gear or the Vicodontis Rex shirts, lots and lots more. From all the Minnesota clubs, go to SodaStick.com and follow them at SodaStick on Twitter. That is S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com on Twitter. And use the code PurpleInsider to get 15% off your purchase. You know what I think might be part of it. And I agree with you. I think by Buffalo, he's all in with this week. It might be 25 plays, but then after that, he's the tight end and they're going to throw him the ball. I think it might be this. When you look at the PFF grades, it's kind of telling because they use colors. So helpful.

Like blue and then green and then yellow. There's hardly anybody in the blue in the league. Travis Kelsey, Mark Andrews, David Njoko, one of those guys who was not that great and then became great. And then maybe borderline Dallas Goddard. But even he is sort of quite a bit away from someone like Travis Kelsey, Mark Andrews. George Kittle is not grading quite as well, but he's one of those guys. And then there's a bunch of dudes. There's a bunch of them. There's Friar Muth and there's

Hockinson. There's Gerald Everett. There's Hayden Hurst. There's Zach Ertz. There's Evan Ingram, Ty Conklin that are all like in this next layer down and they might feel like i'm gonna have to pay you because of your catch numbers like you're travis kelsey when you're not travis kelsey and so maybe tyler conklin is a great example of the oh yeah vikings developed him for four years and now he's finally like a part of an nfl offense he just had two touchdowns on sunday good for tyler conklin i like that dude He's a good player. It also might say where you should get tight ends is maybe develop them late. Fifth round. Hope someone emerges. But I think

that when it comes to high drafted tight ends is there ends up being bad feelings. Like between the tight end between the team because they drafted him eighth overall and I think he's been fairly successful but maybe you thought he was a transformational player and they're just like you weren't as good as we thought you were going to be. If TJ Hawkinson was drafted in And I think he's been fairly successful, but maybe you thought he was a transformational player,

and they're just like, you weren't as good as we thought you were going to be. Yeah, if TJ Hawkinson was drafted in even the second round, I think his career, probably by Lions fans, is viewed very differently. When you draft somebody eighth, and TJ Hawkinson doesn't have any input over that. He doesn't have any say over where he gets drafted.

But when that happens, you're expecting that guy to become the Travis Kelsey, Mark Andrews Kittle tier and he hasn't quite done that so maybe it is viewed as a little bit of a disappointment but he's a good player like he didn't ask to be drafted eight but I think that's what it is though with it's not just him like when Cleveland signed in Joku a lot of people went like what in Joku I mean he hasn't been that good why are you giving that much money because cleveland was making a bet on the tight end jump which does happen a lot of times midway through their careers where they really capture that that role and it's worked out for in joku it doesn't work out for everybody but they more have doubled down on their bet but i think sometimes when you get four years into a player's career and he hasn't been what you thought he was going to be you're like i don't know it just didn't work out and then he goes

somewhere else and they maybe build around him or they really saw him as a perfect fit where maybe he wasn't for you like there's a lot of things playing in different schemes with different players around you different coaches like that can that can be a big deal i think another interesting point like i think we have enough data now to say that something quacey really has kind of prioritized is like draft pedigree and going out and getting like he traded for jalen rager who was a first round pick recently he traded for ross blacklock who was the 40th overall pick recently traded for tj hockinson was the eighth overall pick recently like betting on just talent and the traits that got these guys drafted high, even if, I mean, none of those three lived up to that positioning, but there's some merit to

the idea that like, hey, maybe, I mean, maybe they'll do better here with a change of scenery, different schemes or whatever. And I mean, not that Jalen Rager or Ross Blacklock have kind of torn anything up for the Vikings so far, but it's an interesting kind of trend that we've noticed now. Okay, next question from at Swervin Mervin on Twitter. Is there anything that the Vikings could do to bring in one last piece, maybe a player who gets released or Odell Beckham Jr. when he's healthy? Over the cap only shows them at 300,000 in space. Heard Monday marked the end

of where teams can restructure for this year the only thing they could do i believe is extend delvin tomlinson if they gave him a big extension they could lower his cap hit there isn't much else they could do you can still restructure people's deals like the the specific thing was that you couldn't do like what the bears did with robert quinn yeah where they where they eat a bunch of the money in a trade but and so that that's irrelevant now that the tuesday trade deadline has passed you can still say all right we're going to restructure dalvin cook or brian o'neill or eric kendrick's contract but i mean the trade deadline has passed like you can't trade for anybody anymore so it would have to be you sign somebody who gets waived and the one big piece I guess maybe two but the one big guy still floating out there at some point is Odell Beckham Jr. right

and then maybe Ndamukong Su I have no idea if he wants to play football but and the only one that makes sense there is Brian O'Neill to restructure because he's going to be here for a long time i don't know that it's wise to do it with kendrickson cook because then you're doing the kick the money down the road thing on the salary cap which they've done so much of and are not in the greatest situation for next year already uh so but the answer is yeah like they can and delvin tomlinson to me would be the most obvious he's played great they love him they give him a contract extension make sure he's a part of the team for a long term create some cap space and then sign odell beckham i think what it comes down to though with odell beckham is like

yes you can find the money if you're desperate and look i mean i've been the all-in person so you might as well do those things with kendrickson cook Cook if you have to, to get Odell Beckham. I think it's going to come down to how serious does he take you as a contender? Because if I'm him and he, he watches that bills game and you lose by 28, right? You have to contend. Where is he going?

Yeah. Yes. No, that's it. That's it. I think that's it. If I'm Odell Beckham, I'm sitting at home and I'm watching red zone every week and I'm saying,

who's good. Who's good. Who wants me? me because you know who wants him everybody after what he did last year for the Rams it was remarkable he came there Robert Woods got hurt he took he took right over he learned their offense he was a good teammate or a touchdown in the Super Bowl everything they could have dreamed of

and everybody wants that there isn't a team in the league that doesn't but Kansas City's got to be sitting there being like, come on, we're us. There's got to be five, six, seven other teams who are interested in this. So the Vikings have to prove to him that he should come here.

If he wants to, of course I would say yes. Why would I say no? They just traded for a tight end. What's one more? Yeah. Do it. I agree. Okay, no more takes Yeah. Do it. I agree. Okay.

No more. No takes there. Last question. This from C Landstrom or any other interpretation of how you say that on Twitter. Let's see. With Irv Smith's injury and the substantial loss of playing time, could the Vikings and Irv consider an incentive laden contract for 2023, staying with the team, having a season in a familiar setting, and then producing what would seem to be in a better position for him for a more valuable contract later.

Could you envision this playing out? Let's see. Or is he a lame duck? I would be shocked, though. Yeah. I would be surprised. I will say, like, so both quacey and kevin o'connell made the point yesterday when talking about tj hockinson trade to say oh we still like irv and

they're gonna do that obviously that's speaking publicly or you're gonna try to like lift somebody up but i i do think like maybe it's more of a possibility than like some fans might think or want like to me it was interesting like it seems like fans really just kind of turned on Irv Smith and I get that he dropped a very notable pass but it's not like the guy had like insane drop issues through his whole career or like and the thing I hate is like Alexander Madison tries to block Isaiah Simmons on a blitz pickup, whiffs, dives into Irv Smith's legs, and people are like, oh, same old Irv getting hurt again. Like, don't be that guy is what I'm saying.

I agree. He was blocking really well on that play. He's done a lot to come back from missing all of us here with a knee injury, hurting his thumb in training camp. Like, I just hate when people are labeled as injury prone. And I get it. If you have multiple injuries, that's going to happen. People are going to label that.

But yeah, I thought people were like the Irv hatred kind of went too far. And I'm saying that because I just saw so much of it in my mentions. Yeah, me too. I think it's unlikely. I think he will probably be another in a long line of tight ends that we've we've discussed to play their rookie contract somewhere and then go somewhere else and hopefully that he stays healthy and puts it together i don't think it's something you can completely write off because maybe like this this person said like

there's a familiarity there they could do some sort of cheap incentive laden thing but with t.j. hockinson here i i don't really see it happening no that's the end that's the end if you're him why would you come back yeah like you're not going to start at tight end you're not even going to compete to start if t.j. hockinson is here which he will be uh he's going to go somewhere where he can compete to start, where someone's going to believe in him and give him a chance. And someone will pay him money because they liked him in the draft and they saw the high ends of it and the bad breaks that he had.

And I also agree. It's so funny about how like someone, even when the team is six and one has to become the whipping boy of Vikings fans. And it's long been like Tom Compton or Dakota Dozier or whoever it might be. It's interesting to me that it hasn't been the right guard so far this season because a lot of people wanted to defend that draft pick. I'm seeing more Greg Joseph than I am Ed Ingram.

Because people like the draft pick at the time, and they don't want to point out how bad it's been. I mean, that's really it. And the team might be feeling the same thing. I mean, it has been a complete failure at right guard it doesn't matter they're six and one but it has been so far doesn't have to be forever but so far but i think that's part of it is the team overdrafted someone and they overdrafted someone with outside issues before this of significance and the the draft pick got criticized so i think

what a lot of fans wanted to do was say oh the criticism is not fair we love the draft pick got criticized. So I think what a lot of fans wanted to do was say, oh, the criticism is not fair. We love the draft pick. And then when it starts to blow up, like we're just not going to bring it up. Like that's just how, that's just how it goes.

That's how it goes. A lot of time. Ah, the kicker, like the kicker hasn't hurt you at all. And I think he'll probably be fine. Um, but the right guard has hurt you a lot and will not be fine.

If he keeps playing like this. If Chris Reid isn't even active on Sunday, I'm going to just have some questions about that. Chris Reid, he's the Brent Jones. He's the Brent Jones. Yeah. Like, that guy is a better pass blocker. He has to be. Colts fans and reporters thought he played well last year as a starter

when he filled in for for quentin nelson or whoever was like is it the injury i don't maybe it maybe it's an injury we're not behind the scenes maybe it's he doesn't fit well in this specific offense or he's hurt or whatever but just on paper watching ed ingram play every week like they just see there's so far to go there uh okay so let's uh pick this. We'll wrap up on it. I remain undefeated. I know. I took my first prediction L.

I thought the Cardinals were going to win. And in my defense, it was a close game. The Cardinals led in the second half at one point, but Vikings keep finding a way. I think I overlooked a little bit. Like, being at US Bank Stadium, like, really matters. Like think I overlooked a little bit. Being at US Bank Stadium really matters. That is a legitimate thing. That was one of the best crowds I've been.

I think this fan base, this state, these cities are getting really excited about this team. Totally agree. Because that place was rocking. And this wasn't like primetime game against the Packers or Cowboys or whoever. This was the Cardinals. This was a normal NFC opponent. The place was bumping. I think wasn't like primetime game against the Packers or Cowboys, whoever. This was the Cardinals. This was a normal NFC opponent. The place was bumping. I think that made a legitimate difference.

So I shouldn't have overlooked that. Now they're going on the road. But with that said, I'm not picking Taylor Heineke to beat the Vikings right now. So maybe now I'm doing the wrong thing and overlooking the road game thing. But no, I think the Vikings will win this game. It's a trap game for fans, clearly, but it's not a trap game for them. They are... Not a single question about Washington.

They are focused on this team, which has a really, really, really good defensive line, which if there's a problem, it's that. But Taylor Heineke's cool story, Case Keenum vibes and all that, but he's not that good. I'm taking the Vikings in the sixth or seventh straight one-score game. All right, I'm going to give it a shot here. I'm going to pick Washington. Perfect record on the line with the Manders.

This is kind of like when somebody has a run going on like a deal or no deal or something, and they're picking the right boxes, and they're just rolling. You ever see that show? Yeah. Okay. I like playing the arcade game, like the physical arcades. Oh, okay. I didn't know that was a thing.

It's cool. You get the whole experience of picking the boxes and stuff. That sounds fun. I'm a grown-up. Yeah. Well, wasn't no i eat hot dogs and mac and cheese i'm not i'm just kidding you uh but i'm very nervous about this because the secondary for washington is horrible but their defensive line is incredible. Their quarterback is a mess, but he also is somebody. He has some magic to him.

He galvanizes the guys. Terry McLaurin's really good. That's a big issue. They can't really run the ball. So that's been key for the Vikings, stopping opposing teams' run games. But Delvin Tomlinson's either not going to play or be banged up.

Based on O'Connell's comments, he's not playing. Right, that's a big problem. That is a giant problem. He's been a monster against the run. I'm going to pick Washington. I'm going to call this not the trap but the disappointment game where what did Mike Zimmer used to say, high on their oats. They made the big trade trade but here's the thing

about the big trade is that Hawkinson can't step right in and play the whole game yeah so Johnny Munt is your starting tight end you're down tell it Delvin Tomlinson the injury bug bites you Terry McLaurin is probably going to make some plays and then I think their defense gets a few big sacks against Kirk Cousins and they win the game but But, you know. Yeah, and it's specifically to... Who knows? Like Montez Sweat, their edge rusher, is really, really good. They're not going to have Chase Young back quite yet.

Montez Sweat against Christian Derrissaw, Ryan O'Neal, that's going to be really fun to watch. My concern is more with Jonathan Allen and Deron Payne. That's it. Who are maybe the best defensive tackle duo in the league. And Gary Bradbury has had a good year. I still have watched his entire career and i'm not ready to call this guy uh jason kelsey yet so um and then and then the

right guard position obviously right totally washed jj watt annihilated them last week yeah that's the concern that's the concern i think the corpse of jj watt killed them there is a disappointment game on the way potentially or i'm wrong, which has happened a lot in the past. It's just this year I've been NBA jam on fire. So anyway, Will, super fun. Thank you all for those great questions. Purpleinsider.com. Go to the contact us or DM me on Twitter at Matthew Collar.

And of course, we'll have more coverage next week and do this again. Thanks, Will. Thank you.