Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Would you trade next year's pick for Arch Manning in the future? What will Baker Mayfield do if DeShaun Watson is suspended?

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

Matthew Coller and Paul Hodowanic talk about the report that DeShaun Watson is going to be suspended for the entire year and whether Baker Mayfield should demand out. They discuss a scenario where the Vikings could magically trade for Arch Manning, the top high school prospect in the world and then discuss Jimmy Garoppolo getting healthy and where he will land and tight ends. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here, along with Paul Hodwanek of WCCO Radio and sometimes MLB.com. I quote tweeted an MLB.com article by you, Paul. And I'm sorry, I still refer to you as intern Paul, because that's what you're always going to read an MLB.com article, like I have thoroughly done my job as a well-documented, not big baseball fan that you are. If you are engaging in any MLB content, I feel like I have done my job in spades. So, yes, I was at MLB covering the Twins all week, and now I'm doing a Vikings podcast. Couldn't be happier to be here. I didn't say i read it i said i tweeted it i said i shared it with my following to express my pride that you have

developed your skills at purple insider from intern paul to professional paul to mlb.com paul journeyman paul that was yeah yeah well that's what you really are because you're doing you know some work for the associated press a little a little for MLB, a little for here, but your main job is at WCCO radio. And so everyone's proud, but you'll always be ML or you'll always be intern Paul. Anyway, the point is that, no, I did not read your article, but we do have a lot to talk about with football. I'm sorry, baseball. The games just take too long.

It's just there's nothing I can do about it, baseball. We had a – this weekend there was a two-hour and 17-minute game. It was amazing. But, yes, today was like three and a half hours. So I get it. Yeah. Have I mentioned the two-and-a-half-hour rule to you on here? I don't think so, no.

The two-and-a-half-hour rule for me is if I go to a baseball game, because I do enjoy target field and other baseball fields. If I go to a baseball game, I leave exactly two and a half hours into the game because I am not invested enough in anything that happens to stay beyond that. And that's just about the time where I've gotten everything I asked for from baseball. I got a few innings of play. I got a couple of hot dogs or whatever type of food that I wanted. I enjoyed the evening outside, but there's only so long I really want to sit in that type of chair. So then it's time to go. If someone was

throwing a no hitter, I would leave at two and a half hours. That's the rule. And that's what I do. You're on the six-year-old plan. I think that's like what parents do when they bring their kids to the game. They're like, I don't think Jimmy's going to be able to sit through this, but if we can make it through two and a half hours, that would be really good. So when I see you walking out of the stadium, that's also when all the parents are packing up their small children that they brought to the game. I just want you to know that. That is also maybe part of it is that other fans start to get antsy after two and a half hours and some parents do not take their small children so you're getting

them climbing over things you're getting some people around you who maybe have enjoyed other things more than baseball throughout the first two and a half hours and are now yelling things at the designated hitter like and and not only, but you've got probably at that point, like 14 strikeouts and seven balls hit in play. So like, okay, well, I saw a couple of home runs and mostly everyone struck out. So now it's time to go. So I'm sorry, baseball.

I used to really be the person who wanted to stay until the final out. But now I'm kind of like, eh, baseball's about nice stadiums and I'll watch the playoffs. Yeah, I think your days of announcing minor league baseball probably colors this. You've spent enough of your life in a baseball stadium to the point where you don't need to go back again. Yeah, I probably do have permanent scars from minor league.

So what they used to do a lot was they would at my level, which was low a short season. So there was 70 something games is they would have outfielders that they'd be trying as pitchers or infielders or like these guys who were on their very last chance and they were converting from a fielder to a pitcher. And it was a disaster i mean they would be out there balking and couldn't throw strikes and then you know but the guy would throw really hard which was why he was a prospect of some sort and so they're like oh yeah i remember this this guy unier unier castillo like he was a shortstop but he couldn't hit why don't you try

pitching oh okay it was just a just a mess and that happened a lot there was a shortstop, but he couldn't hit. Why don't you try pitching? Oh, okay. Just a mess. And that happened a lot. There was a lot of guys who loved to throw over to first base. They would get nervous. And games would absolutely take forever. So, yeah, I once did an 18 inning game by myself on broadcast. So I think you're right. I think we got to the bottom of that. Yeah, I think we got to the bottom of that.

Yeah, I think we got to the root of that issue there. But who knew that we were going to spend five minutes talking baseball? Yeah, sorry, everyone. But if I'm ranting about it, then it's different. But we have other questions, very important, pressing questions, some of them and others somewhat ridiculous for some hot routes for you today. So let us get going on that. There's news in the NFL today,

and it's time to break it down in the only way we know how. Hot route style with our spin on football headlines with a mix of frozen tundras, neck roll, and grass-stained jersey. Well, let us begin on the story that is captivating the masses here in the NFL, and one that I wish would go away and we would never have to speak of it again, but it is holding some important NFL things in the balance that have Deshaun Watson. So there are new reports, Paul, that Deshaun Watson could be suspended indefinitely with the minimum of one year. So here's my questions for

you. If you are Baker Mayfield, are you going back to the Browns and saying, put me in coach, because you really want to win with a good team. That's got Amari Cooper now and a good running game and good coaching on the offensive side and Kevin Stefanski. Would you like to play for that team and just earn your next contract and pretty much just say, uh, whatever, everybody knows it's my last year. So caution to the wind. And also this is kicking off Time Horizons Week, since that was what Kweisi Adafomenta called it on the website. So we're going to talk about different time horizons for different teams. Will the Browns ever be a legit Super Bowl contender with Deshaun Watson? And will Kevin Stefanski be the coach?

So several questions regarding the Deshaun Watson situation for you, Paul. All right, let's start with the Baker Mayfield question, whether he should play his contract out there or try to get traded and go to another team. I 100% think he should try to stay and play for the Browns. Football-wise, I see no real good reason not to. Just from the teams that he could play with, the Browns are easily the best team.

You have Amari Cooper. You have Nick Chubb. You have Kareem Hunt. You have David Njoku. You have talent along that offense. You know Kevin Stefanski's system. In year one of that system, you played well in it. You went to the playoffs. You threatened the Chiefs for a half. All good things that you

won't have if you go to the Panthers or you go to the Seahawks. Yes, they have a wide receiver here or there. They don't have the infrastructure that the Browns have, which I can't believe I'm saying the Browns infrastructure should keep you somewhere, but they have the requisite pieces in place. You know, a lot of those pieces. And so from a, on the field standpoint, I don't know how there's a better scenario. And I also think if Baker wants to remake his image, uh, keyword wants, if he is interested in doing that, or if he just wants to continue with his kind of image that he's got currently, the best place that you can remake that is in Cleveland. Because if you go about your business for a year, you play well, you play solid,

you even play average, you play better than you did last year, but you don't make a peep in the media. You don't upset teammates. You're a consummate professional with all this other bad stuff happening to the organization in the background. That is the best place to remake your image. Suddenly it goes, they were going to abandon him. He decided to just come back, lace up the bootstraps play. And I think he can remake his entire image with just one year where he's playing well and being a model citizen with the Browns because if you're just comparing quarterbacks on the Browns he's much more of a model citizen than the other guy they got there so for every reason I would see him wanting or I would see him like the best case scenario for him is staying with the Browns but that's what I think

he should do uh but what he's going to do with he seems completely out on the Browns in terms of that organization and the way they treated him and kind of the wishy washy nature of how it went. He feels like he played through injury and didn't have that good of a season. His stock lowered, but the team is just moving on from him. Do I think he's going to be open to returning? No, but I don't see any scenario in which going somewhere else is better for you because I don't think you're getting a long-term deal or at least a lucrative one at that if you just go to the Seahawks or the Panthers right now. But if you play out your contract and you play well, you can enter free agency, have a choice of anywhere you want to go. You can make more money and you can totally remake your image. So I would tell him to stay with the Browns. What do you think? And then I'll answer the second part of the question after you're. So I think everything you're saying is valid, Paul, and I am not disagreeing with any of the points that you made. Just come back, keep it classy, play some good football,

and there are millions of dollars in your future. Now, I do not mean this is a jab at Kirk Cousins, but if someone paid Kirk Cousins what the Vikings are paying him and Baker Mayfield has a stretch of two out of three years that are good, then someone is paying Baker Mayfield, Kirk Cousins type money or more to be their quarterback elsewhere. So you are right from that perspective. However, have some pride, have some pride. You have to be saying to the Cleveland Browns organization, you guys went out and sold your soul for somebody who was accused by 24 women of sexually assaulting them and then had to settle 20 of those cases.

And some are still pending. And the NFL wants to indefinitely suspend your boy, the guy that you guys wanted so bad. Not my problem. You guys made your bed. Now you guys sleep in it. I feel like maybe being vindictive is bad just in general, but I think I'd rather just go play for an organization that didn't try to replace me with someone who very well might be a sexual predator, if not is provably at this point.

And I'm looking at the carolina panthers depth chart and i'm not saying i believe in matt rule in any way no i do not but it's not that horrible like dj moore robbie anderson terrace marshall brandon zylstra for goodness sakes is there but christian mccaffrey may be healthy. Their offensive line, they just drafted Iki Ikuonu. It's not that bad. They picked up Austin Corbett and Bradley Bozeman in the off season should be better. They don't have to start Pat Elfline. They've got a halfway decent defense. If Baker Mayfield goes to Carolina in not a very difficult division that has the Saints playing Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota playing for the Atlanta Falcons and wins nine games, he will get that same paycheck.

Is it a guarantee that he wins nine games with Carolina? Absolutely not. But he could in that division be fairly competitive and really just stick it to the Browns and leave them to win six games with Jacoby Bursette. And I think if I'm him and I just me knowing me, I am absolutely never putting on a Browns uniform again. And if they tell me, sorry, we're not trading him. We'll just keep you here if you do that. Well, once upon a time, Cincinnati tried that with Carson Palmer didn't work. He ended up getting traded to the Raiders. Usually all of these situations where the team tries to play hardball,

they end up trading the guy anyway when he forces his way out. I don't think we've seen any situations where a team has forced someone to stay and play. And Baker's in the last year of his contract. So he can run out his contract and then just move on and sign with the highest bidder. So I don't think I could. I don't think if I'm him, I could do it, Paul. I don't think I could ever play for the Browns again and look at the coaches and look at the players and be like, yeah, follow me as your leader.

Yes, they did try to put Deshaun Watson here and he is a horrible person, but follow me. Like, it's just too awkward. I don't think I could ever do it. I just think like if he had more cachet built up as a player on the field as an, and as a person off the field, I can see that route being better. Um, just in the fact that he, in that scenario, I think he feels better about what type of contract offers are coming his way, regardless of the season he has. and why I think it would feel great to spite him I just think there's so much upside for Mayfield to go into that situation and just be a good person and like just totally remodel the way people look at him like he then becomes like the one shining thing in this dumpster of just horribleness that has come back on the Browns.

And so, yeah, I, you have to swallow your pride a little bit. It's probably a little bit embarrassing to go back there. And it's all reasons why I agree with you in that. I don't think he will do it. Uh, but for me, if I was in career preservation mode, that just feels like the best spot on the football field to preserve my career and just for all the factors I've laid out I think it gives him a chance to preserve an image that has been a downright turnoff for a lot of teams I think there would have been more teams lining up for Baker Mayfield if he just wasn't an ass to so many people on and off the field like I think he could have like got had more suitors.

And so I think the best way to remake his image is staying there instead of going somewhere else. Um, so yeah, I, I, I, I agree with you. I don't think he would do it, but I would make him, I would have him think long and hard because I think it could re he could really kind of turn this on its head. And three months ago, this looked like a horrible outcome for Baker Mayfield. And now I think he can make a lot out of it just with this one year. But on your question about if the Browns would ever be a legit Super Bowl contender with Watson,

I think the second he comes back, assuming that's not this year, but next year, I think the roster is still in a spot where they immediately become a contender. I think the roster would probably be at or around the roster that they had in that Watson had in those first few Houston years, uh, before Bill O'Brien did whatever he did with that roster. And I thought they were outside contenders. And I think Kevin Stefanski is a really good head coach. I think, uh, Andrew Barry is a GM is better than Bill O'Brien as a GM. And so I think the second Watson comes back, I think they are a legit Superbowl contender. What do you think?

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Sotastick.com. S-O-T-A-S-t-i-c-k.com promo code purple insider for 15 off i think that the answer is there's a lot of uncertainty with that question because what is the sean watson going to look like when he comes back? I mean, do you snap your fingers after two years away from the NFL and then suddenly play great again? Maybe. But I think about Michael Vick and how when he first came back, it looked like he forgot how to run. And then it snapped back into place and he was great for maybe it was one year where he was really excellent with the Eagles. But when he first got in, they were trying to, I think, sub him in and have him run sometimes. And he just didn't have the same juice.

It was kind of ugly. It took a while for him to get back into the mix. So does Deshaun Watson just snap right back into place as an elite quarterback and then off they go? And then the time horizons part of this is their roster is really good right now three years from now or two years from now when he's fully back to 100 to sean watson of what he used to be uh is it as good i mean we've seen this with the vikings where things change pretty fast the offensive line that's so good might get old or amari Cooper might not be the same guy in two, three years. It's amazing how delicate these NFL teams are. And the same goes, like they have some certainly future pieces,

Greg Newsome and Denzel Ward. Like they do have future pieces on defense. Miles Garrett probably isn't going anywhere, but being a legit Superbowl contender is a tight rope that you walk. And that's why you don't see repeat champions year after year, because everybody is struggling with the time horizons of your roster peaks and then falls off. I think that there is a world, because he's not that old, where eventually they become a Super Bowl contender. Whether Kevin Stefanski is the coach of that, that I think is probably not going to happen. Because if I were to project the future of the Cleveland Browns,

Jacoby Brissett starts, they go seven and 10 or six and 11. It's a very tough division. The AFC is a nightmare. You're just not winning that much. And there's pressure because you think, well, it's not like simming the season of Madden. Like every losing season is a disaster behind the scenes. And then you go into that next season with, oh, you're getting Deshaun Watson back. Here you go. And if Watson isn't a hundred percent himself, Kevin Stefanski will take the fall. So I think that the time that they become a Superbowl contender with Deshaun Watson, Stefanski is not their coach, and he ends up kind of getting railroaded in a lot of ways by this team's decision to trade for someone who was clearly going to get suspended for a long time. Yeah, that's interesting, and I think I'm slightly

partial to Kevin Stefanski just because we know him, and I think he did a good job here and did a good job in his first year with Cleveland, and things went off the rails and part of me wants to believe he'd still be there because he's gotten a bad you know maybe a bad end of the draw I can't even know if I can say that just with the Deshaun Watson you kind of made your bed there but who knows how much Stefanski was involved in that decision to bring him here so yeah that is kind of the reality of the NFL but I think on the point of kind of team building and that they may run into it in a couple years i think they've kind of already dug their hole and at this point the only way they get out of it is basically just keep digging like the only way you get out of the hole is you win

a super bowl at some point and then this can all be deemed some maybe somehow you can deem it a success i don't think there's any other way you deem at a success with everything that's going on with this team, unless you win a Superbowl and get to the top of the sport. I think that's the only way you can feel like it's worth it. And so for them, I see them in a similar scenario as the Rams right now, where they're kind of saying to hell with the future, like we're playing for the present. So I think they would kind of kind it would change the geometry of kind of how they're making a team when sean watson comes back because i think they just need to keep digging they need to capitalize on this at some point because they've already dug their hole with sean watson like they just need to keep going further and further in to try to

figure out a way to say it was worth it and the only way you do that is you i mean they traded away a lot of their picks but you're trading trading away picks. You're pushing money down the road. I think all those things get implemented as soon as Watson, you know, Watson's going to play because you have to push for it at that point. So I don't think they're going to operate under the traditional parameters that we think a normal NFL team is going to be operating under. They're going to be desperate to try to win right away. And I think that's going to hurt them long-term, but in the short term, it's probably going to work because that's what we've seen.

So I think when Watson gets back, yes, I think how much or like how long it takes him to get back to his self is a very valid question. And probably one I wasn't pondering as much. And I think that definitely needs to be taken into consideration, but I think they go in serious go mode as soon as he gets back to somehow justify this. And just to put a bow on it,

I think that if they indefinitely suspend him with the minimum of one season, that is the right thing to do. And the NFL gets rightfully criticized for being hypocritical on a lot of these matters, but suspending him with the possibility of more things coming out and getting suspended longer is probably the right way. So onto our next question, I'm going to skip ahead here on the list that I sent you because I like this question and some people kind of brought it up in the Friday mailbag or something similar. So Arch Manning is the

number one quarterback prospect coming out of high school, and he has made his decision. He committed to play at Texas. If there was a rule on the books in imagination land where the Vikings could trade next year's first round pick for the number one selection overall in 2025, which I think is when Manning could come out, it might be 2026, but just bear with me. But you have to draft Arch Manning no matter what. Would you do that trade?

So let me just lay it out again. There's a secret rule on the books that you could trade next year's first for when Arch Manning comes out. But no matter what, you have to draft him. You can't go, oh, well, he's hurt. So whatever. Like you've got to draft him. You can't go, oh, well, he's hurt, so whatever. Like, you've got to draft him. Would you make that move?

My entire heart wants me to make that move. Like, everything about me loves this question. You know how much I like the draft and just thinking about this and would value a number one overall selection. My head is telling me the exact opposite because my head is thinking about the quarter, the number one quarterbacks of past and what happened to them. The Matt Barclays of the world, the even Sam Howells of the world last year, the Josh Rosens of the world, the guys that going into a year are the undisputed number one guy they probably have a sports

illustrated cover at some point with them you know in at their high school um football field throwing lasers doing something like that and then they never end up being good in my head i haven't i didn't go all the way back to this but in my head i'm just trying to think of the guys that three years out had the hype and then not only went number one, but turned out to be good. The only one I can think of right now that was number one for so, so long. And then went number one was Trevor Lawrence. And we still don't know how that was going to work out. But I remember reading one of those sports illustrated articles when he was still in high school. And I remember it because he had the long hair and I'm like, who is this dude? What is going on? He's the only one

that has lived up to it going into college and then coming into the pros, at least showing some semblance that you would want to, that he was worth that pick. And he was a number one overall type player every other time it just doesn't pan out and i don't think that's like some pressure of being the number one quarterback prospect or anything like that i just think it's this game's hard and you just really don't know what someone's going to do till they get through a couple years of college and into the nfl so arch manning he's got the pedigree everything everything in my heart wants to say heck yeah do it 2025 here we come and like do we really do you really need the first round pick but i can't get myself to do it

i don't think i i can make that commitment um but even those words that that hurt that hurt me to say because i i really want to say yes but but I just don't think it's a good, it's a good option. So if Arch Manning hits and becomes Peyton Manning, then you're probably talking about at least winning one Superbowl, maybe two, and having one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL for 10 to 14 years, considering that quarterbacks stay healthy and just have longer lifespans of their careers. That's the high end of his talent that you land that player. And if you can agree to push it down the road a little bit, then that is the potential of what you get. However, I have the list from the 33rdteam.com. I have the list from the 33rd team.com i have the list of high school prospects coming

out that were the number one quarterback going all the way back to 2000 and i will read you some highlights brock berlin of florida brody croyle former kansas city chief vince young kyle wright Vince Young, Kyle Wright, never heard of him. Rhett Bomar, don't know him. Mark Sanchez, decent career, decent, but not good in any way, but took a team to an AFC championship. Matthew Stafford, so you'd sign up for that. Jimmy Clawson, Terrell Pryor, Matt Barkley, Philip Sims, never heard of him. Not the Phil Sims, but Philip Sims.

Jeff Driscoll, back up in the league, Jameis Winston, Max Brown, Kyle Allen, back up in the league, Josh Rosen, major bust.

Shea Patterson, I believe was playing in the USFL. Davis Mills. We'll see Trevor Lawrence. We'll see Spencer Rattler. Who's already had to transfer because he lost his job and Bryce young, who might actually be good. That is not an inspiring list. So if you thought that picking out which college guy is going to be

good going into the next year, picking out which high school guy a few years down the road is almost impossible. But even if that, even if that guy were to become Matthew Stafford, his level talent, I think you would, man, you would have to think about it. You really would have to think about it because if the Vikings go nine and eight or 10 and seven, what's that draft pick for next year? Are you going to miss it in comparison to rolling the dice for a chance to potentially get a franchise quarterback for the 10 years following?

I don't know, man. It's hard to say no. Yeah. And this isn't part of the scenario because, again, this isn't a realistic thing that could ever happen. But just part of me, if Arch isn't good in college and then you get to draft night and everyone's like, oh, who's going to go one?

These quarterbacks, these quarterbacks. And Arch is like a fourth-round pick. And by this blood oath that you've signed, you can't tell anyone who you're picking in 2025. And then you just roll up and on the card, you say Arch Manning, and he's like a fourth round prospect, just the embarrassment that you would feel in that moment. I'm not sure I could get over that. So I think I'm, I might be willing to miss on Arch Manning. And again, hurts me because I just would love to jump in, in full, like just full support and be so in on Arch Manning. And again, hurts me because I just would love to jump in in full, like just full support and be so in on Arch Manning the next few years at Texas. But I just, I can't do it,

Matt. I can't do it. And I also don't know, this is certainly not a reason not to do this, but it's just like something I was running through in my brain. Is there any son or nephew of a great quarterback who also became a great quarterback that isn't Archie Banning and Eli and Peyton? I'm trying to think if there is another, and someone will have to tweet me if there's another one, because Phil Sims is kids, Matt Sims and Chris Sims were both backup quarterbacks at best.

Let's see. If you look up Joe Montana's kid, that didn't go super good as far as being a college prospect. I think he ended up at like Montana State or something. How about Jim Kelly? His nephew, Chad Kelly, was a good college quarterback, but went in the seventh round and never made any inroads into the NFL. That is often the case, but Arch Manning is kind of a different level prospect than those people. But, you know, I thought it was kind of an interesting scenario of would you do it?

And I think I just might anyway. I think I just might. Just because the high-end talent of the kid is so unbelievable that I think we're better at training quarterbacks now than we were with Brock Berlin, I think. Right. Yeah, no, I mean, I could be so easily convinced to just jump right over. Again, I had to restrain myself from not saying yes to this question. So it wouldn't take much for me to say, F it. Yep, let's do it. Okay. Jimmy Garoppolo, this is our next question,

is going to start throwing again soon, which means teams who still need a quarterback could make a deal to acquire him. Does it make sense for the Seahawks or Panthers to get Jimmy G and is there a wild card team that should be interested or should the Panthers and Seahawks just let it play out, live the tank, or get Baker instead? What shall happen with Jimmy Garoppolo? I mean, for all the reasons you laid out, why Baker Mayfield could maybe go to the Panthers and resurrect any part of his career, I think Jimmy Garoppolo makes a lot of sense there. I think it makes sense for a team that is actually close to maybe doing something in the playoffs. I don't think the Seahawks are really close at all other than DK Metcalf and Tyler

Lockett. There aren't really any pieces anywhere that I feel good about. So I don't think it makes sense for them to get a short-term quarterback that can get hurt for a team that doesn't need to go all in in any respect the panthers i mean if we're taking it in their current scenario their head coach gm they need to go all in to try to save their jobs uh jimmy grappolo at this point is as all in as you can kind of get with the ret with the remaining options that are out there so i think jimmy g should be interested in that again they have a good running back. They have at least one, like they have one wide receiver that gets you excited.

You have some other, they have a good defensive, like defensive personnel on that team. Um, and yeah, Matt rule is not a great coach. He's definitely not, uh, Kyle Shanahan. You're probably not going to get the looks you got there, but I think it would make sense for the Panthers to try to make a run and get Jimmy Garoppolo. The team that should be interested, but because they made a stupid move earlier, they aren't, is the Commanders. I don't know why the Commanders were so willing and ready to just jump at Carson Wentz when they could have waited and gotten a Jimmy Garoppolo or even a Baker Mayfield,

both probably better than Carson Wentz. So I don't know if there's, at this point, any other wildcard team that is conceivably on the table just based on the quarterbacks they've committed themselves to, but the Commanders feels like the one that really missed out on, like, why did you commit so early to Carson Wentz you could have just gotten someone close-ish to Carson Wentz pretty easily we're seeing that now with the guys that are still on the market the fact that they just took themselves out of any quarterback conversation right away still flummoxes me but that would be the team that I think should have

been interested and would have been really interesting for Garoppolo but if you're making me pick between the Seahawks and the Panthers, I don't think it's a question that he should go to the Panthers where they can best use his skill set to maybe be good. And I think that's the better of the scenarios if you're Garoppolo, where you would rather go. I agree. And when I go through the other quarterbacks for some of the other teams,

you think Garoppolo's probably better than some of the other starters. He's better than Marcus Mariota. He's better than Jared Goff. He's better than Jameis Winston, but these teams just can't viably trade for him. He's better than Tua, at least at this point in their careers. He might have some argument.

I don't want to say this too loud to be better than Derek Carr. Probably not, but maybe. Carr is the very much up and down guy that when he's doing well, everyone talks about it. And when he's not, it's like, ah, well, you know, there they go. Pittsburgh, for sure. He's better than Mitch Trubisky. He's better than Davis Mills. And he's better than Matt Ryan at this point in his career. He might be better than Ryan Tannehill. Like that's probably borderline, but he's definitely better than Matt Ryan at this point in his career. So it's going to be weird if they can't find a way to trade Jimmy Garoppolo to a team that's going to start him

when there are lesser quarterbacks in the league. There's probably a debate about Jalen Hurts, who there's reason to be excited about for Philadelphia because he had a good season last year, but I would take Jimmy Garoppolo being able to throw the ball around to their good weapons and their offensive line, probably over Jalen Hurts at this point, just by talent, what they've accomplished in their career. So what a strange position to be in, but I'll give you the team and I'm going to meld two hot routes questions here together. The team that should trade for Jimmy Garoppolo is the New York giants. Stop the farce. Stop the Daniel Jones farce people.

He's not good. He is not good. Off season giants could be good talk. You're over it. Yes. So the other question that I wrote was that daniel jones said uh that he's not going to waste his energy on things he can't control as far as his contract and everything else and i thought well you've wasted a lot of energy on passes yeah am i right roasted right can't control them

anyway uh he has not averaged over seven yards of pass attempt in his career. And I don't care who your coach was. That should have happened by now if you're good. So I don't expect miracle worker Brian Dable. All they're doing is kicking it another year down the road. And I actually think they've got a roster with something to work on. So if the Giants were to get Jimmy Garoppolo, I think if you're the Vikings you're way more concerned about playing the giants this year than you are about Daniel Jones yeah I I liked actually one of the teams you mentioned in there which was the Dolphins and Tua uh just because they are also a

team that they put themselves ready to kind of win right away they have Jalen Waddle they have Tyreek Hill and you're bringing over Mike McDaniel, who very much knows what to do to get the most out of Jimmy Garoppolo. You're giving him two really good speed options. Like you're recreating a lot of the scenario that was there with the 49ers. So if we were, if we weren't really considering like, would they get rid of Tua?

I think this would be a really good spot for them to do that. And I also think Tua's value would at least be still high enough that you'd get some other team to trade for him as well so I actually like the Dolphins one a lot too but yeah Daniel Jones I mean you're the question you posited was would are the Giants more likely to draft number one or make the playoffs I still think it's make the playoffs just because it doesn't have to be, it's not a big bar to clear, but yeah, Daniel Jones doesn't feel like the quarterback that should be there long term. And if he looks good,

it's going to be more of a Brian Dable bandaid over it. And while that might be nice that you see Daniel Jones improvement, if he, if Brian Dable can get Daniel Jones to to be better than what you should think about is can we get a quarterback that's just flat out more talented than Daniel Jones and then Brian Dable can do the same thing for them why are we making Brian Dable work with the C talent when we can get rid of him and get even a B talent and let Dable elevate him so even if Daniel Jones gets elevated by the head coach, I would say shoot higher than Daniel Jones. Try to find someone better than him. Even if you can

make like lemonade out of Daniel Jones, like don't, don't settle for that. Settle, try to get out there and get a better quarterback. And maybe that's Garoppolo. Maybe that's someone in the draft. I think that for many years, Daniel Jones will be a wonderful journeyman or backup quarterback that he will exist on teams like Drew Locke and like Teddy Bridgewater, where he fills that spot and then they've drafted someone else. But at this point, when you haven't even registered a quarterback rating over 90 and three years, And it wasn't like you were, you know, 20 years old coming out of the draft.

There's really no point to carry on with this, but they could in that division reasonably compete with Jimmy Garoppolo and better coaching. So I think that they should still make that phone call and, and be interested. One last one. People are talking about Rob Gronkowski. He's retiring, but everybody thinks he's not really retiring.

He's just waiting until the Tampa Bay Bucks are in the Super Bowl race and then going out and playing with Tom Brady again. That's what everybody thinks. But they're talking about the greatness of Rob Gronkowski. I think he has an argument for the greatest tight end of all time. I don't know that it's clear cut that he's the greatest tight end of all time. When I was growing up, here you go, old man Matt, but Shannon Sharp was at the top of that list for somebody who was a dominant receiver, but also could play with some edge as well. But of all the tight ends to ever play, you can go lifetime if you want

or you can go back in the day if you want. And you had to throw a game-winning touchdown, Paul, and you've got the ball in your hands and the play is dialed up for the tight end. Who do you want to be that tight end that you are heaving the pigskin toward to win the Super Bowl? I feel like I could say Shannon Sharp, but no one would get mad at me just, but I haven't, let's be honest. We were, I haven't seen much of Shannon Sharp. So the guy that one of my favorite tight ends growing up was Antonio Gates. And I think that's my answer here. I haven't totally been in on the Rob Gronkowski discourse, Hall of Fame discourse lately, so I'm sure there's PFF charts to tell me that there's some better tight ends

out there. But just from a perspective of a guy that I really enjoyed watching play, felt like made big catches up and down the field at all times of the game, Antonio Gates is like the cream of the crop for me in terms of guys that I've watched him and Tony Gonzalez. But there was something about Antonio Gates and maybe it was the Chargers uniforms that I loved as a kid. But I really, really liked Antonio Gates and it felt like he made a lot of big plays at a lot of big times.

So I don't have a lot of stats to back it up. This is just gut intuition and what my like eight-year-old brain saw when Antonio Gates was more in his prime. But Antonio Gates is my pick. If I'm not mistaken, Matt Ryan gave a shot at this once and it didn't work out, but I would still throw toward Tony Gonzalez with the Super Bowl on the line. When Gonzalez was playing for Atlanta, I think they had a chance to beat the San Francisco 49ers and he didn't quite complete the pass. But what we're picking here is former basketball players who can go up and get it. And I think that Tony Gonzalez had the best

contested catch that I've ever seen. And Tony Gonzalez also to speak to his vertical, if you're throwing a jump ball up to him in the back of the end zone, he is the reason you can no longer dunk the basketball because, or, you know, like the, through the goalposts or dunk the football through the goalposts because he wants bent the goalposts and they had to stop the game. So they didn't want more people dunking the goalposts, bending them, stopping the game, classic NFL. One time it goes wrong and they have to make a big deal out of it. Real quick, most underrated tight end to play for the Vikings.

Do you have an answer to that? I didn't prep you on this. So if you don't. You didn't prep me. And again, you're going to pull out some 1980s probably on me that I'm not remember. No, you don't have to really go back that far. Vasanti Shanko would be one.

That's a good answer. Yeah. That's like the epitome of that guy for me. And growing up, that was always a guy that never got like a ton of accolades or props, but felt like made one or two massive catches every game. So I think Vasanti Shanko has to be in the conversation for most underrated. Yes. Jim Klein saucer is what everyone will say, which makes it not underrated,

but I'm going to throw out Jermaine Wiggins. Jermaine Wiggins was one house of a human being. And he is the tight end version of the Leroy Horde quote about if you need one yard, I'll get you three. And if you need five yards, I'll get you three. He's the tight end version of the Leroy Horde quote about if you need one yard, I'll get you three. And if you need five yards, I'll get you three. He's the tight end version of that. He averaged like eight yards a catch in 2005 for the Vikings, but had seasons of 71, 69 and 46 catches for his three years as a Minnesota Viking, a reliable, just mammoth human being listed at 6'2", but 255 pounds. That is a round human. Matt Asiata was also always that guy, the I'm going to get you three regardless of the amount that you need.

That was always the guy that I thought of when that quote came up. Asiata is going to get you three yards regardless. Shout out to Jermaine Wiggins. We'd love to have him on the show. Wait, is he like around? Is he somewhere probably uh you know what we we really should do like a random wikipedia minnesota viking just to see what it says in their wiki let's see where is he uh doesn't look like he played listen to to this. So this is why you look these things up. So after he played for the Vikings, he played for the Jaguars, and then he did not play for two years and showed up with something called the Florida Tuskers.

What in the world are the Florida Tuskers? Were they like an XFL team or something? Okay. So the link on Wikipedia takes me to the Virginia destroyers of the United Football League. So apparently, oh, this is amazing. The Virginia destroyers succeeded the Florida Tuskers, a charter UFL franchise based in orlando florida so i guess the ufl lasted long enough for teams to move okay we we got like a first like uh owner being like i need to leave virginia get me to a bigger market let's go to florida that's amazing uh let's see. It says he frequently appeared on 98.5 The Sports Hub, and he was featured in the Aaron Hernandez documentary.

So there you have it. Jermaine Wiggins. Florida Tusker. Let's see. Did he play well at least? I have no idea. I doubt they kept stats in that league people forget when they make the jokes about the xfl and usfl they forget the ufl paid one million

dollars for jp lossman to play in that league i'm gonna tell you i didn't realize the ufl existed till now so okay i'll give you uh just because if people stayed around for this they deserve this nugget so the ufl was one of the first things I ever wrote about that someone paid me for. So I wrote, I, yeah, I know. I wrote a freelance article for a super random magazine about the UFL and interviewed people. And one of the things that they were doing to try to get people to come to their games was they had Nelly performing at halftime. And I remember using some snarky remark about like, I don't know, guys, Nelly's a couple of years beyond his peak here. And the PR person, yes, from the UFL,

which they had a PR person sent me like an annoyed email that I had included this little snarky line about how Nelly was washed. So I, I, I, I've been snarky for a while, folks. It didn't start today. Yeah. Anyone thinks he's growing older and getting snarky? No, no, no. 2007. He was still throwing fire at that point too. And talking about random side leagues, which, uh, uh, Kyle Slaughter was eliminated from the USFL playoffs. So if you were keeping a Minnesota football fan there, they will not be going to the championship, but I'll be watching it. So anyway, well, what a time this was for you, Paul.

Yeah, it started with making fun of baseball and ended with making fun of the UFL. I mean, it came full circle uh that it feels only fair so indeed okay well thank you for your time as always and uh thank you all for listening we'll have more conversations on time horizons for teams including with pff's anthony trash i think that's going to be on wednesday that'll come out got some more fans only podcasts to do. So lots coming up on purple insider as we cruise through the off season and try to have some fun along the way. So we will catch you all later.