Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - WR3 has arrived as the Vikings sign Dede Westbrook (Greenroom Chat)

Episode Date: July 25, 2021

Matthew Coller chats with Vikings fans about the signing of Dede Westbrook. Will the Vikings actually use him? What's the best case scenario for how Westbrook fits in with Adam Thielen and Justin Jefferson? Does the offense have no excuses now? How many receptions do we expect Westbrook to have this year? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

let's get right into it here on our green room chat and i'm just going to begin with where you want me to begin Nick with Rick Dennison and we're going to talk about DeeDee Westbrook as well I want to hear from you guys in the chat what you think of the Rick Dennison situation and I'll tell you what I think and then we'll go from there in the chat and we'll get to wide receiver three and everything else that is going on in the Vikings world heading into preseason. But I'm just going to say that it was bound to happen with someone sometime that the vaccination issue would kind of come to a head here with players or with coaches. And there would be certain people that weren't going to be involved because of it. And I don't know if Rick Denison will eventually decide to get vaccinated and return as the offensive line coach, or if he'll take on a different role or what is going to

happen here, or if he ends up walking away from the team. I mean, I guess those are the only three options. I don't know which one it's going to be. It's just that it was bound to happen. They set it all up. So the NFL set it up in terms of the rules that if you're not tier one and you're not vaccinated, then you can't be near the players. And that's impossible for someone to coach if they're not near the players. So the NFL basically made it a mandate. And I think what the NFL is doing is they're just trying to make sure that there aren't outbreaks. That's the biggest thing is that they just can't have forfeited games, outbreaks, rescheduling. This is going to be a lot harder to reschedule things when it comes to the season this year, because fans are going to be in the stands.

Last year, it felt like it wasn't as hard to move things around. And even then, it was pretty tough. And we were playing games on Wednesdays and Tuesdays at times. I don't think they want that again. And the only way to avoid it is to avoid outbreaks. And so you have to limit the number of people that are not vaccinated. And with the players association, they are going to, you know, fight and say, no, play all the players don't have to get vaccinated because they want players to do, we have to make sure that these guys who are coming in contact with the players are not causing outbreaks. And that's what happened with Tennessee last year. Remember Tennessee, they knew that their whatever coach it was,

assistant coach had tested positive and then they didn't tell the Vikings and they came and played the Vikings and that didn't turn out to be serious for the Vikings, but it could have been. And they want to do everything they can to stay away from those situations. So I understand where they're coming from with this. And there was going to be some people who made that choice for themselves and said, I don't want to get vaccinated. And it's like, well, then there isn't much you can do here. It's sort of like if you went to a theme park and said, I don't believe in seatbelts. And they said, well, you can't get on the ride that I'm sorry.

That's the rules. You can't get on the ride if you're not going to put on your seatbelt. And so, um, Matt, you're right. It does seem that the Vikings are flexible and Nick, they have not fired Rick Denison so far. Uh, it's going to come down to whether he decides to get vaccinated or if he's going to take on a different role, which kind of sounds like that. Appreciate it on the shout out on the DVD Westbrook signing. I did not make that happen, but I thank you for that. I don't want to spend too much more time on Rick Denison and all that stuff because it's just it's it's just frustrating to talk about and it's not going anywhere and that's just kind of how it is so let's talk about a wide receiver right I mean that's more fun all off season long you guys know this we have had the wide receiver three train. The drum has been beaten in hundreds of purple insider episodes in dozens of green room chats

because it always made sense that the Vikings would ultimately sign someone to be wide receiver three that Chad BB and BC Johnson have both shown kind of what they are as NFL players, that Chad Beebe is a guy who you can rely on to get open in short area and might be able to help you as wide receiver four, where he pops in and out of the lineup. And maybe he's got a good matchup on a particular play and he gets a first down. I think that Chad Beebe can play in the NFL. I think that BC Johnson, if he's the best version of himself can play in the NFL, but I that BC Johnson, if he's the best version of himself, can play in the NFL, but I don't think those guys move the needle. And in a situation where if somebody tweaks an ankle or is out for three weeks, if you're in that situation, then you have to trust those two

players that are fringe roster guys. You were just going to be in bad shape. So they needed some insurance and they've got it with dd westbrook assuming that his knee injury is recovered he i believe tore his acl last year but normally acls he's 27 years old it shouldn't be a huge issue we'll have to get the whatever reports or whatever they say about his health but they worked him out and clearly were happy with his health to sign him is dd westbrook better than Jarius Wright is a good question, Joel. And I think the answer is that they're similar or maybe a slight edge in talent to D.D. Westbrook.

But when I look at kind of their profiles and what they are, D.D. Westbrook over the last two years that he played the full season, because last year he was out, he played in the slot like 80% of the time. So he was more of a slot number three wide receiver. But when they did go down field to him, he was successful and he is fast and was thought of as more of a deep threat when he was coming out of college than he has been so far in the NFL. But he was also playing with Blake

Bortles for one of those two seasons. And then what Gardner Minshew in 2019 and Minshew is decent down the field when going to Westbrook, just didn't do it a whole lot. I think he had maybe 13 or 11 deep targets. I think we could see that increase. Is he good enough for me? Matt is another way to put it. Is he good enough for me? He's good enough to be the type of guy that I was looking for in talking to you guys about wide receiver three over and over and over and over again, that what I had in mind was not the next Jake Reed. I did not expect that they were going to create a three deep. I did not expect that they were going to draft a wide receiver

in the first round, even though we talked about it. And even though I made the case for it on multiple occasions, that was not really ever realistic that they were going to end up with Jalen Waddell or Devontae Smith or someone like that. But the best option aside from that, or aside from somehow making cap space for Kenny Galladay, like those things weren't going to happen. The top wide receivers is to get someone who is proven as a relative difference maker in

an offense and someone who could come in for Adam Thielen or Justin Jefferson. And you don't feel like you're falling off the side of a cliff. Like what percentage of Adam Thielen is D.D. Westbrook? It's probably like 85%. What percent of Adam Thielen is Chad Beebe? Like 40%. I mean, that's the difference for me is that those two guys are very different in talent. D.D. Westbrook and Chad Beebe or D.D. Westbrook and B.C. Johnson. You have competency. You have some big playability. You have somebody that you feel like out of 17 games will have three or four or five where he's a big difference maker and the other ones that he does his job. That's how I feel about D.D. Westbrook, assuming that it goes the right

way. And we'll get to that. But assuming that it goes the right way and he fits in, which I would expect based on his history that he will, that that's what you have now. And that's a big win for them to be able to add that to the offense. And also this kind of, we're very close to eliminating all the excuses for Kirk Cousins. We're very close to that because we've always, and it's fair, but it's also an excuse to say, well, look,

they gave them Laquan Treadwell is the wide receiver three. They gave him Kendall Wright and that failed. They gave him Aldrick Robinson and that failed. They gave him Josh Doxon showed here at one point. Well, Westbrook is a cut above those guys in terms of being a real third NFL wide receiver with some big play ability. And that means that that no longer can be a thing we bring up. So we're one guard away from playing. Well, we're a Wyatt Davis and an Ezra Cleveland away from saying Kirk cousins has been given everything he ever would have needed.

Do I think that they'll let him be a kick returner considering he's coming off injury? I would say if he's back to 100%, and again, I mean, ACLs, they used to ruin careers back in the day. And now it's, oh, guy had an ACL, he's just gonna pop right back to what he was. I would assume that there's a conversation

about where he fits in in the special teams if he does. I would guess there's going to be a competition there. If he is the kick returner, that's added value, but not a whole lot. I mean, it's just, you know, I don't know about you guys. I used to love kick returners. I used to love them on video games. I used to love watching them. And I think last year, Amir Abdullah had something like 20 returns.

I mean, you just, it's unfortunate, but you don't see it too often. But my understanding is that he can mix in with the kick and punt return, but he'll be in that competition. Amir Smith, Marseille, Kenny Wong Wu, the rookies, they'll be in it as well. Cameron, you ask, does this feel like a better move than the typical veteran wide receiver we usually get at this time, like Wright now that is a great question Cameron because I want to say yes I strongly want to say yes because D.D. Westbrook had 66 receptions in 2018 66 in 2019 and as bad as his quarterbacks were they completed 68 percent of the passes his way that's good and when he was coming out in the draft, he had some domestic violence issues that dropped him in the draft. And we can talk about that part of this as well. But that played a role in him being a fourth round pick. But I remember when

he was coming out that there was talk that he talent wise was much higher than that, that he was much more like a second round pick in terms of talent. And then he comes in the NFL, 34 catches his first year, 132 over the next two years, eight touchdowns. Those numbers to me, especially with bad quarterback play, they look better than what we've been talking about before. Michael Floyd was done. Kendall Wright clearly was kind of a smoke and mirror thing with his season with Chicago the year before he signed with the Vikings because he's never played in the NFL again I think he was in the CFL the last time that I saw him Aldrick Robinson had 17 catches which is like the best recent year so he's clearly better than that Tajay Sharp should concern you a little

that this is what I want to get to is that the Tajay sharp was supposed to fit in the offense and everything was supposed to go all right. Like, oh, okay. He played with Tennessee and he'll just slide right in. And that never happened. And I don't know why that never happened. We never really got an explanation on what was wrong with Tajay sharp, but I even think that Westbrook is a cut above Tajay Sharp, who is sort of a fringe guy with Tennessee anyway. Aaron, that's funny. Two and a half deep. That's exactly right. So let me talk about, you're right, Joel, that this signing is eliminating a lot of excuses for Kirk Cousins. That's absolutely right. That they drafted the offensive lineman to be better at

pass blocking. And that goes for not just this year, but in the previous couple of years, they've drafted linemen every year. So there's that. And they've built a line that should protect better. It should there's question marks, but it should. And now he's got all the weapons to wherever he looks on a key third down. Somebody's going to be good at football, catching the ball. There's not going to be a fourth down where he throws it to Laquan Treadwell at this point where you have someone on the roster

in Treadwell who is a replacement level player well now you have someone much better than that now we always play best case scenarios and say everyone's healthy but in this case even if they're not at some point during the season then at least D.D DD Westbrook gives you a little insurance against that. Now, will they throw the ball to DD Westbrook or use him in a team that used three wide receivers less than anyone in the NFL? Now that is a good question, but here would be my thought, not just the fact that they paid him and they signed him and they convinced him to come here when he had some other issues. And another interest, I mean, the fact that they signed him when supposedly Seattle wanted him as well. That says to me that they have a role for him. Also, I think that Irv Smith Jr. in previous years, he kind of played the role of being wide receiver three for this team, that they saw him as being better than Chad Beebe, better than BC Johnson. So he was essentially the

wide receiver three. So they'd be in a big situation, say a third down and eight, and they would have the two star receivers and then Irv Smith and Kyle Rudolph as your four receiving options. Well, that's essentially using Irv Smith as wide receiver three. With Kyle Rudolph out of the picture here, Tyler Conklin's not really the guy you're going to use on third and eight. So now that becomes DeeDee Westbrook. And that's where I think he can be really important. And that's where I think they can get a few more explosive plays out of it

than they would have with Irv Smith playing the wide receiver three type role. But that's what I'm thinking we see this year in terms of using the wide receiver three when they haven't in previous years, because once they drafted Irv Smith, he kind of became that in 2019. And then especially last year where he was on the field a lot when he was in games. So that's my expectation for D.D. Westbrook is that he comes in and he gets far more reps than we've seen for wide receivers three wide receiver threes in the past and that he plays a fairly significant role that kind of reflects in a way not these gonna be a tight end but from a receiving standpoint that kind of reflects what they asked Irv Smith to do over the past couple of years.

Tajay Sharp did nothing in Kansas city when he signed there, Joel, you're right about that. That is a hundred percent correct. Is Davis under contract yet, Nick? I believe they have all their rookies signed under contract, but it's funny about that because we just don't really even pay any attention to it anymore. There used to be holdouts all the time. And when they would get into camp, it would be, is this guy signed? Is this guy holding out? But since they've just slotted all the rookies, there's really no debate over it. So I assume he has, I haven't checked in on that at all. And even, I think there were some guys who didn't have their contracts yet, and they started training camp anyway, that they signed whatever waiver. I don't know exactly, but Davis will be signed. They're going to sign all their rookies. That's not going to be a

problem. So give me in the chat guys, how many receptions, how many yards you think for DD Westbrook? I'd love to know your projections for him this year. And we can talk about everybody and just what this means. But if this offense has a different shape to it under Clint Kubiak that now includes a wide receiver three, I think that, I mean, that could take another step forward. And that's something that until now I've been a little bit skeptical about. I mean, you guys who join on a regular basis, you know, that as last year, their 11th best in the league, and they're about the same when it came to expected points added in passing or whatever other stat you like. I mean, other than total yards, which doesn't really tell the whole story, they were a slightly

above average type of offense. And it was hard for me to believe that they would be much better. But when you add another wide receiver to the mix here and bring back all the other parts and presumably improve, and that's what it's going to rely on, of course, presumably improve on the offensive line. Now your offense has the potential to get better. It has the potential to do a little more with Clint Kubiak in charge. And I wonder how much he was involved in this and saying, we really do need another wide receiver to come in here, especially after, look, there was the conversation about

Amir Smith-Marset when he was drafted, but it's a fifth round pick. I mean, I don't care how many analysts like him when he's a fifth round pick, You just can't expect the guy to step in and win wide receiver three. So it will be a competition for Amir Smith, Marset with Chad BB and BC Johnson. Suddenly that becomes very interesting as part of camp to see which one of those guys ends up on the roster, but asking Smith Marset to be wide receiver three, I think would have been way too much.

All right, let's go through some of these. A lot of you are very close to the ballpark here with 40 catches for 400 for Matt, 38 for 470 for Austin, 40 for 450 for Joel, 50 for 650. Nick, you have very high expectations. Aaron, you too. 55 catches for 550 yards, 640 for Scott, 25 catches, 250, and two touchdowns for Matthew.

I think that it's somewhere in probably the range of the 40 catches. That would be my guess. I don't think we're going to see this go quite into the 55, 50, 60 range unless someone gets hurt. Of course, if someone gets hurt, that could be different. Francis with 45 catches for 530 yards, four touchdowns. I love the touchdowns being included as well, guys. That was great. But I would go a little bit higher than 25 where Matthew has them. I don't think you're being unreasonable considering their wide receiver three history, but I would go a little bit higher than 25 because they've signed him here.

They want him as part of the offense. I think they will try to work the football to him. And I think there will be a couple of deep plays that are mixed in for him to average a little more than 10 yards to catch, which a lot of you smartly have him at his career yards per catch is around 10. So you're smart to have him in that range, but the 40 for four 50 or 38 for four 70. I like those. I like those projections is where we think DD Westbrook ends up if he stays healthy. And if everything turns out and Nick, I, I agree with you that I think they do end up throwing the ball more than they did last year, but that's a low bar for the team last year to be 27th and passing. This is one thing that I will always

give my credit, Mike Zimmer credit for is that when something isn't right or isn't good enough, he usually tries to change it. And that doesn't mean he's going to go away from the run. He fundamentally believes that you need to run the ball first and then run play action off of it. But ranking 27th in pass attempts when you're seven and nine and have one of the worst defenses in the NFL, that doesn't really add up. And I know Zimmer can be somewhat old school, if not a lot old school in some ways but he has tried throughout the years to make these changes and to improve to go from norv turner and to well he resigned but to change

the offense toward pat schirmer and to move on from john d filippo to have an offense that does run the play action shanahan kiak style, which has been very, very effective for Kirk Cousins. Like those are things that Zimmer has done. And I see a lot of people when I tweet about Mike Zimmer, or when I write about him, a lot of people will say like, well, you know, just get rid of him. He's a dinosaur. And I think that there are old school elements of Mike Zimmer, but also I want to see where he takes this offense with Clint Kubiak. And if they do throw the ball more often because they've done now the right things, of course, you guys know me, I would have tried to get maybe two DD Westbrooks or maybe a wide

receiver in the third round instead of Chaz Surratt. That would have been me. I would have been trying to get my hands on even more playmakers. But now that we look at the full picture, and this is why it's hard to grade the offseason until you've seen the full picture, you have two new offensive linemen who specialize in pass blocking. You have an offensive lineman who specialized in pass blocking in college, Ezra Cleveland now playing on his correct side. And you have three wide receivers who can go down the field and make a big play. And those are corrections that I think we all believed going in the season that needed to be made from last year,

because when Adam Thielen was out with COVID for a game or COVID reserve, they had to play Chad BB and BC Johnson. And just so happened to get lucky. They were playing Carolina. If they're playing somebody good, I don't, I don't think that those guys end up with the numbers they had to play Chad Beebe and BC Johnson and just so happened to get lucky. They were playing Carolina. If they were playing somebody good, I don't, I don't think that those guys end up with the numbers they had. Cameron, are you foolish for having a gut feeling that Wyatt Davis won't start week one simply because Zim almost never starts rookies week one.

I do not think you're foolish and I, but I do think that depends entirely on wyatt davis now i remember in 2017 that pat elfline did not start as the number one center i think until the very end of training camp that he had to work his way through it and eventually they just decided okay he's ready to go and he's going to start here now brian o'Neill was a little bit of a different case because Brian O'Neill weighed like 275 pounds when he got here, and that was just not going to work. They were trying to pack pounds on him, teach him how to play tackle. It took until a couple of weeks into the season until he was really ready to play NFL football. I think that's very different for Wyatt Davis. Wyatt Davis is big enough. He's physically ready. It's all about, can he master the type

of techniques and the offense that they need him to master? And can they trust him? Zimmer has been slow to play rookies. If you think about Mackenzie Alexander, Xavier Rhodes, Trey Waynes, those guys took a long time. And then Brian o'neill on the offensive side but if somebody's good they'll play them i mean delvin cook won the job despite the fact they brought in latavius murray and had jerek mckinnon already they gave the job to delvin cook because he was great i think last year with justin jefferson he would have been in pretty much immediately if jefferson had had pre-season games even Irv Smith I think they brought Irv Smith along a little slow in his first couple of weeks but he played and then he started to take

off as the season went along so I don't think it's like an edict from Zimmer to not play rookies but if Wyatt Davis can't figure it out pretty quick in training camp, then, then we'll start to talk about getting nervous. And that's where, as we lay it out right now, if we were playing Madden and we looked at our Madden roster, we would say, boy, this thing looks pretty good. And if we were projecting Wyatt Davis and Christian Derrissaw as Madden usually does, I don't know what they're grading people these days, but you would give them like 75, right? 75 to 80, somewhere in there to be conservative with your guests. Can they just do the job at an average level in their first year, which no surprise here, the higher the draft pick, the better the odds that someone does their job effectively,

at least average on an average level. So if that happens and then D.D. Westbrook adds this other layer, which I think can be a domino for them, then you're talking about an offense that's really good, but it's not a Madden roster and Wyatt Davis needs to learn the playbook. And so does D.D. Westbrook. And he needs to fit in and prove that he fits in because they clearly trust Chad Beebe. And so there's a bar to reach there. And they clearly trust Dakota Dozier, which will never really quite understand. And maybe with Rick Denison out, that won't be the case. And maybe Mason Cole will battle for that job. I don't know. I think it still will be Dakota Dozier though, fighting for that job. Hey guys, I know

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minnesota sports inspired goods keep your eye out also for our soda stick giveaways uh nick players report to camp i believe on tuesday because our first practice is on wednesday that we will be out there covering and it appears like we are going to be able to interview players face to face, which I'm very excited about. Scott, so you like the roster and all the folks that we brought in also seems like a big indictment on what their confidence level is in the rookies. There's that. And there's also confidence level in the players that they've been

developing. I think that they've passed. Oh yeah. Past picks. You, you added that on. That's it. That's exactly correct.

That when you run it all the way up to the salary caps edge all the time with your star players, when you pay Kirk cousins and you pay Delvin cook and you pay Adam feeling and you pay Harrison Smithousins and you pay Delvin Cook and you pay Adam Phelan and you pay Harrison Smith and Anthony Barr and all these players then it leaves you very little room for error when it comes to developing and I think that's what we saw last year like imagine if some of those things that were misses ended up being hits imagine if they found a fourth rounder in Jaleel Johnson, who was a beast defensive tackle like this happens pretty often. Right. But they didn't. And not only was

he not a beast, but he ranked at the very bottom of the entire NFL. And imagine if, you know, they found DJ Wanham, who was suddenly a fourth round explosive rookie, and he was good off the edge or imagine the Yannick and Gakwe thing worked out or or whatever right like this is what's happened with them missing on a lot of draft picks over the years that they needed to work out but with this year this is what makes it so interesting and kind of ties it all together because we said all excuses off the table if you have a legitimate wide receiver three and a pass blocking offensive line that they have really pushed a lot of chips to the middle of the table here and done everything they could for this roster to be good. And whether that was the right approach, I personally think, why not? Like at this point

in Zimmer's run and in Cousins run, why not? This was the plan that I thought at the beginning of the off season made the most sense to try to get a bunch of good players on reasonable contracts that you were not locked into because you're not tanking. You're not dropping to the bottom when you have this much high-end talent. And that's exactly what they've done.

They've signed a lot of guys for not a ton of money who have track records in the NFL. And I think that they've done a good job here. And at least the process and the approach of saying, let's put everything we can into this roster. Let's fiddle with the cap in ways we've never fiddled with the cap before. And then if it doesn't work, then we know. And I think this is what you're getting at Joel. If this team fails early and they dig themselves into a hole, do I see them being able to rebound next year by taking advantage of the trade deadline

and offloading some of those one-year players? So this is, I'll answer the question. I will also say that I'm not quite in the brain space three days before camp to figure out like the disaster scenarios and who they're trading. But I will say that if you're talking about a kind of what if scenario, if it doesn't go well, then yes, they would be able to do that. They would be able to offload guys. It's just, I think we saw last year though, that the NFL trade deadline is just not like baseball. Like they got rid of to offload guys. It's just, I think we saw last year though, that the

NFL trade deadline, it's just not like baseball. Like they got rid of in Gawkway. They got a good return for in Gawkway. And I thought that was good for them, but clearly they couldn't find suitors for anybody else that was worth it. And I don't think that that's really part of the equation here. Really what we're talking about is if they dig themselves a hole early how much time will they get to dig themselves out so it used to be that if you win oh and three your season was over and we saw that last year they won what was it five in a row or six in a row and yet still the oh and three start ruined their season now with the 17 game season what is it that's a hole like is two and four too much. Probably not right. Like it was before, but you know, I, I don't think it is. It is now, you know, last year

they got themselves into a big hole and that, uh, it wasn't, they weren't able to dig it out. So what's a hole for this year. Now you, when you look at their early schedule though, you don't want to get into a hole this year because the schedule gets look at their early schedule though you don't want to get into a hole this year because the schedule gets really really tricky later and if you're asking me uh i do think aaron rogers is going to play especially with what him and davante adams put on their instagrams i saw people disagreeing on this which i was surprised at but i mean it's twitter so people will disagree but i i took that as they mean there's one more year and that's it for Devante Adams and Aaron Rodgers and so I'm I'm guessing that he's going to come back and Adams is going to be there and they're

not going to get traded and they're going to try to win a Super Bowl for the Packers um so that's another element of this that kind of makes it interesting. But you know that they play the Packers later in the season. They play the Bears later in the season when maybe Justin Fields is ready to go. They've got a lot of road games later in the season. So that's where these one-year deals, as I try to tie all my points together, that's where these one-year deals are really worth watching because they've put together a roster sort of with like glue and popsicle sticks here, even though there's good players for sure,

but it's glue and popsicle sticks off a free agency, one-year deal, one-year deal, one-year deal. And now it's this training camp. Hey, everybody figure out how to play together and do it by pretty much week two i'm not going to entirely count out cincinnati but i'm kind of thinking that the vikings should win that game but if you get into week two and you're oh and two week three you're oh and three or one and two it's going to feel pretty dicey to try and get back in that as the schedule goes along so these one-year deals and nick you're, do I think that they blow up in their face? That's the one scenario where I could see it being tricky. And as it pertains to DD

Westbrook, this is maybe part of the problem with Tajay Sharp or with Kendall Wright. Like those guys had histories before as solid NFL players, but they just couldn't seem to fit in anywhere or master the offense the way that the Vikings wanted them to do that. Matthew, if I had to guess, do I think the Vikings are one of the teams with 85% vaccinated? I don't know. And I hope to find out on Tuesday when Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman talk, and we'll see how much information they want to share with that. I don't know. I know that they have some key players who don't want to get vaccinated and probably won't. And hopefully that doesn't end up having to bite them in the rear and have them reschedule a game or be without top players or whatever the consequences are going to be. But I do know that Mike Zimmer is very serious about the vaccination thing.

And I also know that teams are not signing guys who are not vaccinated on purpose because they don't want their last campus body signing to be somebody who comes in and causes an outbreak. So I would assume Westbrook is probably on that list of guys who are vaccinated because I've seen agents even tweeting like, yeah, I can't get my free agents who aren't vaccinated a tryout. And that's the reality of how it is. Let's see. Do I think that any of the guys that the Vikings signed this offseason don't make the roster? Oh, that's a great question, Nick. Let me think. Mackenzie Alexander should be fine, but his name sort of pops into my head

a little bit that he in the past has had some trouble getting along with people. And if that's the case this year and Cam Dantzler is good and Brassad Breeland is good and Harrison Hand comes along, that's a guy who would come to mind for me. You know, the other one that comes to mind, too, is Stephen Weatherly, their first offseason signing. If they like what they see from DJ Wanham and some of the other pass rushers, I suppose it's possible that they could look at Weatherly and say, you know, you're maybe not what we really need right now,

is a guy making a couple million dollars to be a situational rusher but he's not really a top-notch situational rusher anybody else i don't know if we get a dayton jones type of situation for this year uh chris does rick dennison's ordeal change your outlook for the offensive line this year's dennison a big voice in the offensive scheme especially with clint kub Clint Kubiak's first run as play caller. Chris, I think that's a very reasonable thought. And the run game part of it, the advisor part of it, the fact that Rick Dennison is widely respected

and has been a offensive coordinator for many years and is the run game coordinator. And think about Clint Kubiak. And I'm not saying he doesn't know how to run and think about clint kubiak and i'm not saying he doesn't know how to run the football his name is kubiak but it's your run game coordinator i mean you're expecting a guy to have a lot of responsibilities that pertains to the run game and now all of a sudden someone else is taking on those duties and the last two years say what you will about their run pass ratio but their running has been very successful under rick dennison as the run game coordinator so that is an important part of it as far as the guys coming along now i know this from people who played under rick dennison that they've said his

attention to detail and this came from ryan harris who told me that he played for the broncos the attention to detail from rick dennison is incredibly good uh especially for young players and when it comes to the run game especially as you might expect the footwork the hands the techniques it might be a thing but phil rousher who is taking over at least as far as we know for right now, Phil Rauscher has been with this system for several years. And that is helpful because he's not like Clancy Barone having to come back and say, OK, here's how I think you do this. And here's what I'm trying to learn on the fly.

That happened in 2018. This is someone who was with them last year as the assistant offensive line coach. So this isn't a big overhaul, but teaching Christian Derrissaw, teaching Wyatt Davis, getting up to speed by week one, all those things. Those are things to watch for sure. Joel Ty Smith won't be on the roster. I was not considering Ty Smith as a major offseason signing. Probably Perry Nickerson won't be on the roster either. Nick, have I watched any of the Olympics yet? The last two days, man, have kept me busy. I have not really seen much.

I saw Badminton was on my TV here, so I haven't seen much of that. So, all right, now that we have the roster set, D.D. Westbrook is the last piece. Since you guys were making predictions and I enjoyed them earlier, give me what you think for the Minnesota Vikings win-loss record this year. What do you think it's going to be?

I'm not changing mine with DeeDee Westbrook and I'll tell you why. Because when I made it out on schedule day release, I factored in that. I believed that wide receiver three train would someday arrive at the station and it did. And we were justified. Any of you guys who have joined a million of these, you know, that we've talked about this wide receiver three things so much. And so it is fun to have that come to fruition, uh, at some point in the same with drafting a fat guard, like finally a fat guard.

We've been talking about this for so long. All right, so I'll give, I'll run through the predictions here. A lot of them in the same ballpark, but Austin, you and Chris are the most optimistic. So you can explain yourselves in the chat if you like. 12 and five. I think 12 and five for Austin and Chris,

I think that that is the ceiling for this team. I think what that means is Kirk cousins played extremely well behind an offensive line that was more competent than it has been in his era. If you, if he gets an era or his last three years here and that they have not suffered from the loss of Rick Dennison, that they stayed healthy on offense and that Justin Jefferson remained Justin Jefferson or more. That's what 12 and five means to me. And on the defensive side, there's no expectation in my mind of them being a number one defense, but let's just say that a lot of the bets hit and they're

solid. They're, they're good enough. They're 10th in the league or something like that. That's what 12 and five is Francis. You've got them 11 and six and Scott, you and Chris also have them as 11 and six, which I think is a very reasonable place to be. And that right there means some things worked and more things worked than didn't.

If they go 11 and 11 and six, which I'm still wrapping my head around these, um, these win loss records with 17 games. But that means that some of the things worked in some of the things didn't, but more worked than not. That means Delvin Tomlinson was good. Patrick Peterson bounced back. Um, Beshad Breeland worked out. Cameron Dantzler took another step like that means a lot of things clicked into place and nobody fell off and irv smith played well like a lot of things probably have to go right for 11 and 6 but not everything like you could have a signing blow up you could have a few injuries and you're probably pretty decent there so long as the offense is

better than it was last year and i know that people talk about how good it was, but I think it needs to be better to get to 11 and six. Now, nine and eight and 10 and seven folks, you are with me. That's where I think that they will be. I have them at 10 and seven, but I'm seeing a lot of nine and eight as well. And I think that that is the most correct place to predict this

team at this moment, because what you're assuming is it's probably a split of the bets. So when I say bets, I mean, they may, they're making a bet that Patrick Peterson bounces back. They're making a bet that Christian Derrissaw can play left tackle. They're making a bet that DD Westbrook is good. They're making a bet, right? So you get my point. If those split down the middle and Cam Dantzler isn't good, but Delvin Tomlinson is, and Michael Pierce doesn't come back, but Daniil Hunter's good, like just put them into half and half. You're probably a 10 and seven team. And part of that for me is the assumption that Rogers is coming back. That's part of it. The other part of it is, I just think when you look at that schedule

in the early second half of the season, it's super hard. You go on the road to the East coast, you go on the road to the West coast, you're playing Baltimore, you're playing San Francisco. I think there's enough really difficult speed bumps there to slow them down from being a top seed, but you're in the playoffs at 10 and 7. And there was a person who emailed me who gave me all the win percentages and your chances to make it a 10 and 7. And I believe you're above 50% chance to make it a 10 and 7. So I'm assuming that that's going to be good enough to make the playoffs, but you're not going to be a one seed. You're not going to be a two seed. That's the place to be with this quarterback still, as much as they're giving him. If only half of the bets pay off,

that means the offensive line didn't play that much better than they did last year. Or that means that Westbrook didn't work out to be the difference maker. We're talking about him as, and I think that we don't know which ones will pay off, but some probably will. And so probably won't. And I think 10 and seven is,

is the, the reasonable man's selection, but I would not criticize anyone for going with the best case scenario in the way they pick, which is why I asked. And I liked that there's this variation between nine and eight and 12 and five, because I think that's looking at it as, well, let me pick in the middle because half the stuff might go right or wrong. And let me pick best case scenario. Hey, everyone, I want to tell you about our friends at Scout

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and overperform and go the extra mile for your company. Um, Scott, uh, yeah, I, I am also, um, more focused on, uh, green Bay and, and how things are going badly for them right now, but I wouldn't hold your breath because once Aaron walks through the door, then all that stuff goes out the window. I think for this year, uh, they'll pull it together and they're going to be very good. Green Bay. That's my prediction. Aaron could announce tomorrow that he's hosting Jefferson, Jefferson. I don't know. Nick, you think that Zimmer is out after this year,

this falls under the category of like, let's play some games before we talk about whether we're firing people. But if you go 10 and seven, what does that mean for everyone is a really hard question. And I guess that's what I've been thinking about a lot when we do predictions is what if, what if, what if my prediction is right, or your prediction, if you pick 10 and seven, what if it's right? Is that good enough for everyone to keep their job? Is that good enough for a Kirk Cousins extension that I, that I don't know, uh, Josh, you got into the chat late well that's uh that's your first mistake um and I did discuss DeeDee Westbrook but I am going to be plenty open to continuing discuss him

are they actually going to use him I think is a great question Josh I think the answer to that is that he will take a lot of the targets that Irv Smith got as a pseudo wide receiver three. Or let's say replace Kyle Rudolph's targets with a guy who's faster and can go down the field. Because I'm not sure that they're going to use Tyler Conklin in big situations like third downs. I think they will use DeeDee Westbrook in those spots. And the other thing too is, if you line up in three wide receivers, which the Vikings have really refused to do in the last two years, the other team has a tough choice. Do they bring in a nickel when you know that Delvin Cook could run over that

nickel corner? That's something that the Vikings haven't really taken advantage of enough. And I, I wonder if Clint Kubiak wanted to do that. Nick, you think that Rick Spielman is on the hot seat as well. I would assume that they are connected. Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman. Are people fired if they go 10 and seven in the one and done route in the playoffs? Francis, it's a great question. And I don't know. I really don't.

And I might have to put it this way. Is it like it might depend on how it looks. I mean, if you overcome a lot to go 10 and seven, if you get injuries and you, you kind of drag tail to the end of the season to go 10 and seven and you lose all the games against winning teams for the fourth straight year, and then you lose in the playoffs and kind of get your butt whipped, then, you know, then, then you might, you might end up seeing that, but that is, that is the absolute most difficult situation for ownership is 10 and seven is good. It's competent. It's probably a fun season. Guys probably had great years.

Stats were put up. Fans were there, but that's not really what you're aiming for. You're not aiming for, oh, this guy had good stats or this guy had a good season. You're aiming for higher than that. That's kind of what 2019 felt like is there's some stats being put up here and, you know, the guys are having good seasons. But I mean, one playoff win was great. It was a really fun game.

I was there. It was a great trip to New Orleans. I loved it. But it was short lived is what it felt like. It felt like, oh, OK, this is who you really are out in San Francisco. And I think that if there's that deflating of a feeling again, I'm not sure that they run everything back. Cameron, a new peak in Vikings misery would be the Vikings making the playoffs and then having outbreak and forfeiting their game. Yes, it would. Yes, it would. And I think everyone would try to

be extra important if they were making the play or uh not important extra they would put importance on being extra careful if they were actually making the playoffs is what i mean to say um scott you think even though our roster is better that the competition that they face it other than the lions is better across the schedule now that i agree with i agree with that in 2019 they i believe if i remember they beat nine teams that had losing records and then philadelphia to win 10 i think that was how it went i mean that's not going to be the case this year when i look at their schedule which many many many things could change between now and then we don't know what justin fields looks like We don't know what Justin Fields looks like. We don't know what Trey Lance looks like.

And even though I'm expecting Rodgers to come back, I don't know if Rodgers is actually coming back. Those things are going to determine where this goes. Even how good is Joe Burrow right off the bat? How good is Kyler Murray in week two? How are the Browns handling their pressure i mean i did a podcast on this the other day um with uh ari may rob um who's now working at pff and we were talking about how like there's a lot of storylines for these other teams the vikings play but i tend to

agree that the schedule is harder because when i look at the defenses i think the defenses the accumulation is harder than it was last year. Go through the defenses the Vikings faced last year. I think they may have had one that finished in the top 10 in passer rating against. So I think that they had some good breaks there in terms of the defenses that they face. Nick, you still think that the win in 2019 was the most costly in recent memory. Things would have been very different is what I can say on that. Things would have been very, very different.

Now, where they were in terms of their coach and their quarterback, I mean, we can only think about right now. I mean, I think maybe Justin Fields is your quarterback right now if they had decided to go a different direction because they probably don't extend Kirk cousins. That is a fascinating one to think about. Joel, how many wide receivers do they hang on to? Let me see. So you're going to have Thielen Jefferson Westbrook, assuming nothing catastrophic or Kendall Wright E happens there.

I'm going to say they go BB and a mere Smith-Marset and maybe they keep six to keep KJ Osborne if he earns it. That's the way I'm looking at it. So I think it's six. If KJ Osborne can prove that he can actually punt return, he'll get some preseason games to do. But I that question and that's something i'm going to be watching very closely i'm sure that the guys who thought they were going to have a good chance to be wide receiver three are now thinking how do i even stay on this roster or how do i even get on this roster if you're amir smith-marset now there's a mountain to climb if you want to actually get playing time but i don't think they would cut marseille i do think they might cut bc johnson and have smith marseille take his his spot if he

doesn't perform really well in preseason to me he is the guy that they would be more zeroed in on than chad bb that is my speculation uh how many days into camp before we sign our actual kicker? I guess we're going to have to put odds on who the kicker is. We got Steven Gostkowski is still out there. That's a veteran. Zane Gonzalez has a really wild career. Like he started off super poorly and then he got better. I might say Zane Gonzalez ends up here at some point. I just have a tough time thinking they're going to go with the two guys they're going with um i agree with you on that but it might be till the very

end like i was looking at this the other day this is just how silly this kicker thing is i was looking at kickers last year who were on the hot seat and i came up with dustin hopkins that maybe dustin hopkins could get cut or something and they pick up a guy who's been around. But I am also speculating in the same way you are, Chris, that I don't know that these two guys are going to be the kickers. Let's see who will go down as a better Vikings quarterback to wear number 12 for Rod or Rogers. That's funny, Josh. That's funny. It's obviously Gus. It's clearly Gus. Gus is a legend, man. Aaron Rodgers. I love that. This is an idea that sort of floats out there is that Rodgers will someday play for the Vikings. Here's the thing about his contract though, is he is still under contract for a

couple more years. It's just that the dead money to trade him goes down. So they can do that after this year, this year would have cost him a lot in dead money to trade him goes down so they can do that after this year, this year would have cost them a lot in dead money to trade him. I believe so. Maybe after June 1st, it wouldn't have been as bad, but if they were going to do it at the draft, I think they would have had to maybe designated as June 1st. It was complicated with his contract.

It won't be after this year. Who scores the first touchdown of the season. I'm going to end on this question because this is fun. And why don't we do this? Why don't we vote? This will be our last question of the night. It's been a super fun this question because this is fun. And why don't we do this? Why don't we vote? This will be our last question of the night. It's been a super fun chat. I love how active you guys have been tonight.

First touchdown of the season. Delvin Cook is the obvious answer. If we were putting odds on it, and I don't exactly know how odds work, but Delvin Cook would be the favorite. He would be minus 250. Is that a lot? I think that's what he would be.

Thielen is a great one. If you're going off the chart, if you were trying to get your best value, who would it be? Your best value might be like Irv Smith, Amir Abdullah. No, you don't want to go Amir Abdullah because it's not going to happen. Your best, Eric Hendricks is a good one,

but your best value might be CJ Hamm. But I think it's probably Irv Smith. Ham check down for 20. Now that I've seen him do it. I definitely have seen him do it where they throw a screen or a check down to CJ Hamm and he goes for 20 yards. Best value might be Conklin. That's a good one.

I think it's Irv Smith is the best value because everyone would put their money on Cook first, Thielen next, Jefferson after that. And then maybe Irv Smith would go there. But C.J. Hamm is a great answer. So I'm going to go with C.J. Hamm. C.J. Hamm is my answer to end the night. You guys are terrific. And this was a great chat. And I'm looking forward to a lot more of these as we get back into football, the preseason games, all that stuff. By the way, keep your eyes out for stuff. I'm going to be doing some more work with WCCO radio. Keep you guys out eyes out for that. And obviously the podcast, everything else we're putting out shirts, a lot going on, a lot going on. So great stuff. Thank you so much to everybody who joined and we will do it again soon. Take care guys. Guess what? Next time we chat camp, it'll be happening.

We'll see you then.