Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Yahoo! Sports' Eric Edholm guesses where each first-round QB will land and talks Kirk Cousins compensation

Episode Date: March 11, 2022

Matthew Coller talks with Eric Edholm of Yahoo! Sports about the average projected draft position of each quarterback in the NFL draft and whether the Minnesota Vikings should wait to see who falls rather than picking one at No. 12 overall. Plus what is Kirk Cousins actually worth in a trade? Is there a low-key team that we should keep our eye on? What if the Vikings go with other positions like receiver or D-end in the draft? And what makes a good rebuild? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. We welcome into the show a return appearance from the Grandmaster himself, Yahoo Sports' Eric Edholm. Covers the draft and much more for Yahoo Sports. What is up, sir? How are you? I'm all right. I'm recovering from the combine. I'm sorry we didn't get to hook up down there in Indianapolis, but a good time was had. It was a lot of work. It was my second work trip in a three-week period, which is pretty rare these days. So this is busy times, but fun. Yeah. No, I really enjoyed getting back to going somewhere to do something for the job. Aside from, it was hard to have any sort of fun on the road covering games with all the

COVID stuff and everything else. And even then, we couldn't go in locker locker rooms so we could only do press conferences and with this it felt like and and i don't want to say that covet is over completely i don't want to like jinx it but it almost felt like ah yes the world someday will look like this again with all of us uh you know together covering things and i i think that everybody sort of came out of there being like, oh, yeah, that's right. Human interaction isn't so terrible. It's a good thing, right? And I always felt like, you know, I remember Matt Mosley,

who used to work for ESPN, now he's doing radio in Texas, and I did a show the other day. It kind of made me think of him. He had a good line years ago. He said, you know, I feel like the combine is for the media. Like, I think it's like, you know, our time to kind of shine. Yes. We, we work hard, but we also sort of, you know, see people that we only typically see once or twice a year.

And now it's been a couple of years since a lot of us have met up in person. And so, but you and I still have like a couple of years streaks since we actually crossed paths. So we'll work on that. We have been there and even in the same room at the same time crazy but never like people don't you know when you look on tv you just see the podium but what you don't see is that it is a mass of humanity so i saw you and i tried to give a little wave but i mean like it's like you're like there's like 40 people in between us and if there's

anything that could change maybe it's just the number of reporters that end up being stuffed into one spot. It's like there's so many people that are showing up there now to do this. Right. That maybe years ago there would have been like five reporters there. But now there's like 50 people in the same room. So it gets a little hectic. There's all the people broadcasting like CBS Sports and Pro Football Talk and all that stuff. So it's kind of a mess. But next year we'll get together or maybe when I'm covering some Bears games. Absolutely.

So here's what I want to do. I want you to tell me if I'm crazy for thinking blank. Absolutely. Oh, you have to lay it out first. A bunch of things that I think, and I want you to tell me if I'm crazy for thinking them. Okay. Am I crazy for thinking that the weak quarterback draft will produce four first round draft picks? Not crazy.

I mean, I've always said that just the need alone, right, is, you know, we just saw a couple days ago the desperation level of the Washington commanders paying for Carson Wentz. And, you know, there's some free agent options who probably aren't that big of a step down, but they said, no, we want to send draft picks for Carson Wentz with the hope that, you know, that he could turn into something. And I think it's reflective of what's left and also what the class bears.

And so there's that level of the draft class, what I meant, that just sort of outlines the level of desperation. Second rounders become first rounders at that position every single year. I mean, we see people overdraft and, you know, I mean, I get it. Right. And so if you assume that Kenny Pickett and Malik Willis are, you know, almost unless they, you know, hold up a school bus between now and April 28th, right. I'm kidding, of course, but, you know, they're going in the first and then, you know, there's been some Desmond Ritter buzz. There's been, so it's one of those kind of, you know, Teddy Bridgewater ish, 32nd pick type deals. And then, you know, if Matt Corral has a good pro day, don't dismiss the value of a pro day, whether you and I think it should be worth something or not. You know,

I was talking to a very well-respected talent evaluator this fall. He said, Oh yeah, pro days matter. And, and, you know, I can get into the details of that at some other point, oh yeah, pro days matter. And, and I, you know, I can get into the details of that at some other point, but yeah, it was, if he goes out there and throws well and looks good and he could be in the mix, Sam Howell could be in the mix, you know? So that's five potential guys. I don't think Carson Strong will, will merit a first round pick at any point, but you know, five possibilities. If you told me four guys snuck in there, no, I would, I wouldn't be stunned. is matt corral by the

way because i just feel like uh you know i've been watching a little jto sullivan qb school and i'm seeing lots of rpos and getting the ball out pretty quickly to guys running seam routes and things like that and slants but i'm not seeing too much of, wow, what a play by Matt Corral. And maybe it goes back to a little bit of the Mac Jones thing where you wanted more wow from Mac Jones, but it turned out that being able to just execute first reads in the NFL is pretty darn good. I just, I don't have any feel for, because we don't have combine numbers on him. Like, is he actually fast or is he just kind of college fast? Like, does he actually have a big arm or not? Like, tell me more about Matt Corral.

Yeah. I mean, he's a little bit of a tricky study because of the offense they played in. I mean, it obviously made him and, you know, everybody else, the other 10 guys who lined up pretty productive, right? They scored a lot of points. Lane Kiffin, I think, has refurbished his image as one of the best play callers and play designers in college football. And so you don't want to have that be a negative against the player,

but at the same time, when you see so much RPO stuff, when you see so many predetermined reads or half-field reads, when you see this highly scripted offense where he often isn't going beyond one reading the progression, you kind of wonder, right? When there were times this season compared to 2020, when you saw Corral try to, you know, improvise, make plays off schedule, they weren't as effective. I mean, for every, you know, there was a brilliant throw he made against Alabama. It was a tough day, but, you know, I mean, there was a brilliant throw he made against Alabama. It was a tough day. But, you know, I mean, he had a couple of throws that make you think,

okay, all right, I can do that. I can work with that. But he does have a smaller frame, like you asked about the athleticism. I don't know that he's going to make his living as a runner in the NFL. Kyler Murray can do it with a smaller frame because he's got unbelievable acceleration and juking skills and things like that. That's not Corral, but he's more of the Zach Wilson type of runner.

You know, if the opportunity is there, you take it and you can use your feet to buy time and things like that. But yeah, I mean, I'm definitely ambivalent. I mean, just lacks some of the physical traits, but more concerned about the fact that this offense probably propped him up in a lot of ways, and he's not nearly as gifted in a rare way like Malik Willis is. So I'm still kind of holding back my praise for him a little. All right. How about this one? Am I crazy for thinking that if Malik Willis and Kenny Pickett are taken before the Minnesota Vikings pick at 12, that they should either just trade down if they want a quarterback or even wait to see who drops? Because this kind of reminds me a little bit of the 2015 draft with Garoppolo, with Derek Carr, where there's quality prospects that don't have the ceiling or upside,

but you could see it. You could see why they would work out. And you could also see why a lot of teams would be like, no, I'm not investing my first-round pick in that guy. Yeah. I mean, I think there are – it's funny. I've polled a number of teams, some who need quarterbacks, some who don't, some who are kind of in the middle where they may need one, but they're not sure yet or that sort of thing.

Or if the right one is there, that said oh this is a terrible quarterback class or you know draft twitter is is completely um bemoan this this group of talent i i don't know that it's that terrible so the question you'll have to have is like you just laid out at 12 is there somebody not named willis or pickett that you're really fired up about? You have to have some conviction, I would think. This is not a Christian Ponder situation where you're heading into a lockout or you're in the midst of a lockout

and you need a quarterback, right? So there's not that level of desperation, but at the same time, there clearly is something that, you know, I would be more of the trade down or wait till round two opportunists kind of pick uh maybe it requires a little bit of a leap up in in in the second but yeah i mean it's it's just one of those years where while the class may not be terrible i don't know that there's more than one or two guys that you can really, truly get

kind of pumped about taking in the first round. And I was looking at recent history of second round picks and of the last 15, five of them became either something or almost something. Like I even put Jalen hurts as maybe almost something in there. And it was, yeah, it was not a really good hit rate. So that's the that's that's tricky because it's like if the nfl evaluates them as a first round pick they have a pretty good chance of being successful right relative to whatever other first round picks you'd have but as soon as you get past everybody thought he wasn't special it's true you're hoping for derrick carr you're hoping for jimmy garoppolo and that's really the best case scenario, but there's a lot more Jimmy Clawson's than there are even of Derek Carr's. So I'm going to run through the quarterbacks and I'm sure you're familiar with grinding the mocks, which takes

all the Benjamin Robinson grabbing. He grabs all of the mocks and then tracks where players are expected to be picked. I just want you to give me over under on these quarterbacks. So he's got right now Malik Willis from gathering the mocks where the expectation is as the ninth pick in the draft over or under ninth. Yeah. And I get why it's ninth, obviously, because of the Seattle trade now and they're in that position and they need a quarterback. Nobody's counting on drew lock. So it wouldn't stun me if it's very close to that number, right?

And Carolina at six would figure to be the first. Assuming the order stays as it is, we know that trade-ups are always a possibility. You know, that's really the one team ahead of them. The Giants could obviously be in that conversation with Daniel Jones too. And I suppose the Falcons could, could, you know, talk themselves into it with one more year of Matt Ryan and then they move on or that sort of thing. But, you know, it's not as if there's a lot of quarterback hungry teams just breathing down

their neck, right? There's Jets at 10. They got their guy last year. Washington just got Wentz, you know, then Minnesota, Cleveland, and I think Baltimore after that. It's going to require a pretty big trade-up from the Saints-Pittsburgh area at the bottom of the top 20, I should say. So I guess I can see it, but they're a little bit on an island there too. I kind of wonder if maybe, you know, some team would be willing to move 10 picks up in round one to leapfrog the Seahawks at nine and go higher, but that's about where I would probably put it. Okay. Side, am I crazy for thinking? Am I crazy for thinking if the Detroit lions traded down a few spots and picked Malik Willis, that would actually be really good for them? Yes. And no, I mean, could it be good for them? Yeah. And they've sold themselves into Jared Goff for this year. You know, he finished strong and they, they kind of liked, you know,

what they saw from him down the stretch, you 10, or week 8 or 9, anyway, we were saying, boy, this is going to be a one-year thing. This is going to be like what Wentz was in the Indy. But it didn't end up turning out that way. I think he kind of toughened up and won some people over. But nobody's having the illusion that this is Jared Goff coming out of college, and he could still be a number one pick type of guy. I think they were fascinated, fascinated by Willis. I also got the impression, and maybe this was, you know, them doing a little misdirection, but the sense I got was that it was more likely for them to go like the Ritter route at 30. What do they have? The

32nd pick in the, in last pick yeah from the rams yeah that route felt more likely when i talked to them at the senior bowl than the two or move down from two and grab somebody plus i don't know who would who would move up the two i do know that they're not excited the fact that aiden hutchinson could end up being the number one pick i think they'd love him to come to them at number two and be that Chris Long type of player. So it's possible. Maybe the percentage is a little higher than it was, you know, even a week or two ago.

Well, having multiple first round picks is I think a good argument for them. And also with Malik Willis, it just feels like you have to look a year down the road. Absolutely. If you're doing that, then you can draft him. If he looks great in his year as a backup and training camp preseason and you feel confident, you can turn the ball over to him after a year.

And if not, then you can draft another one the next year because you're probably winning like six or seven games. And then you'll still be in position to potentially trade up or whatever else you need to do next year. Or, I mean, they could even be so bad again that they're picking CJ Stroud or something. Right. And they have multiple first next year too, still, you know, so they're, they're, they're at a great position to not feel the need to reach this year. I didn't mean to cut you off by the way. I hope I didn't, you know,

you were able to finish your thought there, but I think that's the, the vision is that look, if, if somebody's there and we love them and it's in a smart place in the draft, we'll take them beating if you're Detroit. And I think Brad Holmes is going to be very picky and patient at that spot. I mean, I think they love to find somebody in this draft, but if they don't, they're not going to sweat it because they have 2023 in their sights with that possibility Stroud or any of the other quarterbacks who can come out.

Yeah, I just think it's always smart to draft the quarterback even if you don't believe in him, which is a weird thing to say. But, I mean, Washington felt like they needed Chase Young. You got to get the edge rusher, got to get Chase Young. And, of course, it could have been Tua, and then we'd be going, I don't know, is he good, is he not good? But if it was Herbert, I mean, then we'd be going I don't know is he good is he not good but if it was Herbert I mean then we'd be talking about Washington commanders Super Bowl potential this year and instead we're talking about them having freaky Carson Wentz as their quarterback and

hoping to win nine games so and young coming off a somewhat disappointing year like he was great as a rookie and sort of took a step back last year so I get it the positional importance is you know outsized completely from every other spot including edge rusher including corner those you know left tackle or what have you hard to find spots but there is one position that is hardest to find of all and like you said the more darts you have and the more opportunities it it's not the craziest thing to just sort of carpet bomb until you get it right. All right, let me go through these quick, these other grinding the mocks and where the quarterbacks are expected to go. Kenny Pickett right before the Vikings at 11, over under on Kenny Pickett at 11.

Yeah, that obviously changes. I'm sure a lot of people had him going to Washington at 11, right, coming into that. I'm sure that weighted the average a little bit. Yeah, it wouldn't shock me at all to see Willis go ahead of Pickett, even though I have Pickett rated slightly higher. You know, it's hard for me to rank these guys league-wide and all that stuff, while also acknowledging that, you know, my number three quarterback could be the first one drafted.

So, yeah, again, it's like if Pickett, let's just say Willis goes ninth, right? You know, like we talked about before, then all of a sudden the Jets are getting a ton of phone calls for trade downs. So is Washington. And so Minnesota's got to be on their toes. Any other team potentially looking for that guy, they've got to be thinking about, hey, what will it take to move up? So, I mean, it's a little crazy to play the over if Willis is the nine knife pick,

but you know, that's, that's not wild. I can see it playing out similarly to that. See, I think that the commanders should still do it at number 11 with Kenny Pickett. If that, if he's there, because trust me by this time next year, Carson Wentz will have irritated everybody there too. I mean, if you do it once, right mean, if you do it once, right? So if you do it once, okay. It's like, if you get divorced once, fine. If you're divorced twice, I got questions. We see a pattern developing here, right? Yeah. You're getting a little bit of

a reputation, right? I actually knew a guy who got divorced five times once. And I thought at that point, it's almost a source of pride like yeah I just really don't care what anybody else thinks and you know god bless him I guess so I've only had one girlfriend slash wife in my entire life so okay I mean I yeah uh you got you hit your home run you found your Patrick Mahomes and you kept him you know her so that's that's the way to do it right yeah yeah yeah that's right I drafted the way to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I drafted her with a number on overall pick and then I locked her to a long-term deal. Yes. Her cap hit is a little high, but so I'm not such that one.

Matt Corral at 26th. I that's that one's in flux again. It was, you know, it was disappointing that he wasn't able to throw at the combine. Is that going to, you know, tank his draft stock? No. It was, you know, it was disappointing that he wasn't able to throw at the combine. Is that going to tank his draft stock? No, I will, you know, two weeks ago or even pre senior bowl, I probably would have said, I think under is a real good play, but I don't know that 26 that's Tennessee. Right. Again, I know you're, you know, anything could happen, trades and whatnot. You know, the Titans, I I think, are a team that might look quarterback.

They were clearly disappointed with Ryan Tannehill. I would think that Corral has a little toughness, a little bit of a chip on his shoulder, a little edgy guy. I think he could hang with Mike Vrabel and the criticism he doles out. That's an interesting spot, just the pick itself. But my gut still says the over right now, you know, without knowing where the other quarterback dominoes fall. Right now I feel like that number might be a tad low, but I'm not sure. So we've got Ritter at 31 and Howell at 38.

I don't expect you to know who's drafting 38 but hold on well the Bears oh okay yeah I think that's 39 39 39 okay I was close I was about to be very impressed if you had memorized it through 38 yeah I well it's funny because I did like a partial second round mock and so I'm, who did I put in that spot? I can't remember. I'm not that good. Yeah. Well, 30. So how is the only second rounder out of this group? And then Ritter at the very back of the first round.

Oh, actually I do know who's at 38. And I know I funny. Cause I actually got a text about this from, I think it's the Panthers. I think they have the jets second round pick in that spot. If I'm not mistaken, if I'm wrong, you can clean it up later. But yes, I think that have the Jets second round pick in that spot. If I'm not, if I'm wrong, you can clean it up later, but yes, I think that's the Arnold pick, right? The Darnold pick. Right. Exactly. So they get the, they got the pick back. Right. I guess the irony would be if they,

if they use the quarterback with that, uh, uh, with that selection and, and, you know, I mean that you said Sam Howell, right? Obviously geographically, it would be kind of fun, right? The kid from just down the road. And clearly, they need an upgrade. I think Carolina is still going to try to go bigger than that. I think the veteran route feels like a real possibility here. But let's say they're in the game of musical chairs, the one standing at the end. You just have no choice. You've made good offers.

You've tried to do this. You've tried to do that. Maybe a guy like Howell at 38 works out. So I would be inclined to say that that number could be in the forties when come draft day, just because of how things shake out. But you know, to that team, it makes a little bit of a sense. Folks, we've got an even better offer to tell you about from SodaStick. If you use the promo code PURPLEINSIDER, one word, you can get 15% off your purchase. That's right. At SodaStick.com, your place for Minnesota sports-inspired apparel, you can get 15% off just by using the code PURPLEINSIDER. I've told you about all the

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that the vikings should be looking for because you just mentioned how this game of musical chairs the music's going to stop and there will be somebody who goes oh no deshaun watson is on trial and we can't trade for him uh oh no you know jimmy garoppolo landed somewhere else and we don't really want jamis winston coming off an acl or teddy bridgewater or whoever else and we're on the hot seat so we need to trade for kirk cousins if you're the vikings you don't necessarily need to trade him away but in a lot of ways you kind of do because if you want to spend any money on any players or if you want to you know get something back for a guy who's not going to sign a long-term extension

with you anyway, which there's more buzz and more reporting that cousins is saying, I'm not signing a long-term extension right now. And he wants to hit free agency. So you're, and I think that you don't even get a comp pick at this point with the amount of years that cousins has played or something like that, that I'm not even sure that you get a comp pick if this point with the amount of years that Cousins has played or something like that,

that I'm not even sure that you get a comp pick if Cousins just leaves. So the point just being that there's a lot of reasons for teams to trade for him. There's a lot of reasons for the Vikings to trade him. But with the contract situation, it's very hard to figure out what reasonable compensation is. I agree. I mean, that's, that's probably the biggest thing. And, and, you know, you gotta have the right team with the right cap situation and the right, you know, desire for a quarterback to have it all kind of match up. I mean, that that's, I would say the biggest, you know, impediment or whatever. And we, you know, we did just see a couple of teams to clear up space. Obviously the Colts would be one, you know, the crazy thing about the Colts, let's say they're, they're interested in Kirk Cousins and be one you know the crazy thing about the Colts let's

say they're they're interested in Kirk Cousins and start you know make a phone call to Minnesota I mean I believe this is now going to be the sixth year in a row where they've had a different opening day starting quarterback I mean it just you know the the lack of cohesion obviously the early retirement by Andrew Luck really was a a curveball that I don't even think the Colts saw coming, obviously. And, you know, the other big cap teams, though, seem – you know, Jaguars, Dolphins, Bengals, who am I forgetting? You know, the teams with a lot of cap space, pretty set at quarterback, or at least they feel like they are.

Seattle is interesting. I don't know. I keep going back and forth and trying to figure out, A, where could he go? Where would be a good spot for him? Like you mentioned, what would the compensation be? Because I really don't have any idea. That's kind of the scary prospect is that, you know, are you trading for one year?

If that's the case, even with a strong desire to get a quality passer, you're getting what? Is he 35 roughly? He's going to be 34 when he starts next season. Okay. So 34 turning 35. I mean, with the cap hit, I know you can work with that a little bit, but still, with the one year left, there's only so much you can do. $40-plus million, that's a big ask.

So I really don't have a great feel for, A, who could be willing to pay the price the Vikings need? B, would they feel like they got their long-term quarterback based on what you just said and his desire to, you know, maybe test the market a little bit? I really don't know. It's a tough call. You know, Miami is kind of interesting.

I have not thought of them at all until this, but if the Vikings were trading cousins for Tua, if they just did not believe in Tua at all, and Mike McDaniel, who is obviously close with Kyle Shanahan. Great point. Right. Right. Right. Like, is it not the exact type of quarterback that they're looking for? Tons of cap space. It is also a place where I think there's an expectation now to maximize the playmakers on that roster,

which I don't know that tua can do and if you're the vikings if you're trading for tua you end up with a youngish quarterback that you're not locked into at all he could play this year competently give you a chance to win games and then move on like the the whole concern here from people is is justin jefferson gonna demand a trade if you get the wrong quarterback the answer is no he's not but I mean Tua was able to get uh Jalen Waddell the ball last year is that like you know he can't do it at all I I wouldn't dislike that at all for the Vikings and maybe that's a connection that I just haven't made yet yeah I mean obviously it would it would it would be a huge story right and it would it would demand a lot of follow-up questions, I guess.

But yeah, I mean, on the surface, for the reasons you just laid out, it makes some sense there, right? We assumed that when Kyle Shanahan landed in San Francisco, the guy he was going to go hell for leather to try to acquire was Kirk Cousins, right? That was his guy, everybody said. And so you have somebody who I believe was on staff, right? I think McDaniel was spent. I'm trying to remember, did he go to, did he start with Shanahan in Cleveland or was he in Washington before that? I think, again, he was a low level assistant if he was, but still, I mean, it's some familiarity

with him, somebody he's seen probably a million cutoffs of running that same scheme, but still, I mean, it's some familiarity with him, somebody he's seen probably a million cut-ups of running that same scheme, you know, emphasis on the run game. They're going to put all these resources into improving the offensive line. You know, it could be a really good situation. And I don't know. I mean, it's, it's so funny with Kirk because like you look at the numbers and there's a little bit of Wentz-ish argument with this too, because, you know, Wentz had a 27-7 TD interception ratio a year ago. You know, Kirk Cousins' numbers, as you know, are, they hold up to almost anybody in the league, but there's always this sense that, you know, what's missing? What does he have that, that, what does he not have that other teams recognize and are not willing to sort of treat him as one of those elite quarterbacks so I don't know I mean that's that's always out

there and there may be enough of a hang-up where that doesn't happen but they've said they're behind Tua we'll see we'll see their actions will uh ultimately determine their their intentions I think with the numbers what Kirk Cousins does is he reveals the shortcomings in your box score numbers more than those numbers tell you the truth about who he is. But I thought it was really interesting. And this goes for kind of the quarterbacks in the draft too, where Cousins on his first read is one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. Anything else, he sinks down to one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL. He was, he was on par with Taysom Hill when anything else happens in terms of the EPA, that, that means a check down. It means scrambling.

It means second, third read. And I think that with those Shanahan guys, they always like that player for some reason. You know what I mean? They think like, we'll just dial up that first read better than everybody. Yeah, exactly. up. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. I wanted to ask you about the last thing I have. Well, okay, two more things. Sorry if you're busy. Sure, no, it's good. Okay.

Number one, are there other players in the draft? Like we've spent so much time on the show, and I'm not apologizing, on the quarterbacks, because I think the Vikings are very realistic to draft a quarterback in the, you know, in the coming weeks. But if they're not drafting a quarterback sitting at 12 corner edge rusher, maybe even wide receiver, if something happens here with Adam Thielen, like what are we looking at in terms of quality of prospects? Probably the three deepest positions in the draft this year, I would say.

You know, you could make a case for, I suppose, like offensive tackle or tight end, like in terms of just pure depth, right? Not the high end talent, just how many serviceable NFL players are there, whatever, draftable players, however you define that. But I would say edge rusher is probably number one, just off the top of my head. Receiver and corner are probably close, just again, in terms of depth and overall talent. I mean, I like all three of those classes. So at that spot, assuming that Hutchinson's gone at edge rusher, that Kayvon Thibodeau, look, even if he slides,

I don't think he's getting past, you know, the Seahawks at nine or maybe the Jets at ten. I mean, I think there are enough teams up that high that are willing to roll the dice. I think Trayvon Walker is going to be at best 50-50 possibility to be there. Then you're looking at Jermaine Johnson, who I think is a dog. I really, really like the guy. And he's grown on me so much since I started watching him at the beginning of the year. Didn't know a lot about him before the year. And by senior bowl, I was ready to propose,

basically. So I like him as a ready-made player better than David Ojabo. I get why people look at Ojabo and say, wow, what could he be in two or three years? And that's great if you're patient, but I think Johnson's the better player right now. I don't think Carl Aftis goes off the board until about the, in the 20s. That's the, some of the mock draft stuff has been a little high on him. I believe personally, that's just my feeling talking to people, what have you. And then at cornerback, I mean, it's really interesting because I think, you know, Sauce Gardner probably goes pretty high, probably above Minnesota if I had to guess.

Trent McDuffie, short arms, not a big frame. He's a possibility there. I like him a lot. Derek Stingley, wild card of the group, hasn't played a lot the last two years. Some character concerns. I don't think anything terribly major but enough to do some work on him, the injury worries obviously as well, there's some other factors involved with him that teams are going to have his dad is very involved in the process and you know how that goes, sometimes it's a good thing sometimes it's not, and then I would say the other corners that have maybe first-round potential,

you know, Andrew Booth, Kyler Gordon, probably could be had a little bit after where the Minnesota Vikings are picking. And what was the third position we talked about? Receiver. Receiver, yes, of course, wide receiver. I would say, you know, that's about roughly where the first receiver is going to go off the board, I think. You know, whether it's Garrett Wilson would probably be a strong possibility.

Maybe some team is just in love with Jamison Williams from Alabama and isn't worried about his ACL. They just think this is the best player at the position. We'll take him and we'll, you know, it's like taking Jeffrey Simmons high in the draft like the Titans did, knowing that most of his rookie year was going to be wiped out. And then you get into the Berks from Arkansas, London from USC, Chris Olave, et cetera, et cetera. But, yeah, I would think there's a possibility that one or zero receivers are off the board at 12.

So, you know, if they love Wilson or if they love Berks or London or what have you, it wouldn't shock me. But those other, those other defensive positions, I think will be well stocked. Yeah. I think when you're talking about what they should do, you got to look at a year down the road too. And if Adam Thielen's not here, you know, that kind of thing. I mean, edge rusher classes seem to be coming out all the time. There seem to be a lot of them in free agency, but cheap receivers who are stars hard to find and extremely, extremely valuable, you know? So I, you know, I'm kind of being talked into receiver a little bit. If it's not a quarterback at that position, then again, we've seen some of the best receivers come from the second round. So sometimes they overlook somebody because of one skill or they didn't do X,

Y, or Z at the combine. And then they end up being in the middle of the second round and turning into superstars. But I do feel like every year now is a great receiver crop and it's changing the way that we have to think about like even who you pay at wide receiver. Yeah. I, you know, I, I, somebody asked me a few weeks ago, like I said something to the effect of, yeah, this is, it's rare that we have one position receiver be considered strong,

you know, a top three or four position last year, it might've been the best position or two years ago, even, you know, if you were ranking the, the, the, the talent at each spot relative to it, you know, I, I credit it to seven-on-seven stuff that we see, football becoming more of a year-round sport in the youth sports, and everybody wants to play two positions, quarterback, receiver. And so there's an influx of talent there that we really haven't seen since probably the golden age of the AFL offenses of the 60s and 70s produced a lot

when those passing offenses started gaining some notoriety, whatever. The post-Jerry Rice drip, I think, obviously had a little bit of a buzz too. And we're in that kind of era now. So, yeah, I mean, I'm convinced even I'm going to rank them a certain way and who I think is going to go where and everything, but I'm convinced, like you just said earlier, I think it was a great point. Second round wide receivers have a darn good track record. And there will be multiple second rounders, I think, who outplay multiple first round receivers

because I think we'll end up getting somewhere between four to five in round one, I would guess, if I had to just throw a number out there. So, yeah, I think we could get five or six or seven in round two, and I would be willing to bet that, you know, a George Pickens or a Sky Moore or John Mechie or what have you outplays, you know, Olave or Drake London or whoever, just because that's the way it's been kind of going. The depth is impressive.

Is George Pickens related to Carl Pickens? No, I don't believe so. I'll have to double check, but I'm not 100%. Yeah, Carl Pickens is a fun little player lost on some of those bad Bengals teams there. That's what I tweeted when the Bengals went to the Super Bowl. It was like, this one's for Carl Pickens. He used to be rated so high in Madden. This guy's really great, but no one's ever heard of him.

There was a tweet out there at Super Bowl week. It said, like, name a random Bengal, and I picked Steve Tovar. He was like this – he had the largest pads, first of all, college football at Ohio State, I believe. I mean, these pads, they look like a V shape, you know, and I thought, you know, does this guy have the broadest shoulders of all time or the largest neck or both? And so for, like, you know, he probably played in the league a decade or something pretty good linebacker like every time

i saw tovar i'm like oh yeah dude that guy big bad guy that's that was always my favorite bengal for some reason remember takio spikes his neck oh yeah oh my legendary neck another really good neck was was merton hanks too like he had this extendo neck unbelievable I love that yeah his celebration where he used to not you know bob his head up and down we would do that in the backyard after uh okay last thing that I want to ask you is just uh the Vikings are going to have to rebuild here I I don't think there's any way around it when you're so far over the cap and you are lacking seven positions to be good enough to really compete for a super bowl well what do you think is the difference

between teams who rebuild and quickly become competitive again and teams who end up like the jets and giants where they are just stuck in this rut of hell because this is the thing that gets brought up all the time when I say look they've got to take a step back to take a step forward here and it's well we can't become the Giants we can't become the Jets which of course I mean that is the worst fate you could suffer as a football fan to have your team just be bad for that long and I was in Buffalo before this and uh there was 20 years where they missed playoffs 20 straight years it was horrible crazy so what's the difference between teams to do it right and teams to do it wrong yeah i mean the obvious answer which everybody listening and you know as well is like well you get better

quarterback right that could have the biggest immediate impact but i think what you know what the bengals showed last year because yes burrow was hurt but they essentially went from burrow to burrow and theoretically you couldn't guarantee that he would have been better last year coming off the acl you know even though he had another year of experience and we figured he would play you know closer to his draft position and everything like that and kind of a rare competitor and instincts and all that but what they did was they they they loaded up on their defense with free agents and they hit at a really high rate. I mean, a couple didn't work out, right? Trey Waynes and one or two others,

but they were willing to spend money, and they got better in special teams. The kicker from Florida made a bunch of kicks. It's sort of like praying for an inside straight in poker. You can't really count on it happening, but we've now seen it work where sure burrow played better you know we had an unbelievable receiver to throw to and jamar chase wide receivers a position that can can help boost the team as well i think the you know if you want to do like an epa added kind of type of stat i would bet that's one of the higher ones but you know outside of quarterback i think you can steal a couple games with some really good quality special teams. This is more anecdotal than analytic.

I would think I'd have to sort of run the numbers on this one. But, you know, I've had conversations over the years where people feel like this is still an untapped area of football where if you have the right mentality, you have the right talent on those units, and you're willing to maybe use some starters and coverage teams and things like that, you can be really good on special teams and perhaps steal a game or two. It comes in handy for a head coach who's either in his first year and wanting to build some confidence or on the hot seat

and needing to save his job. So, you know, I would think obviously not just drafting well and being smart with their free agent money, but I really think another thing that people overlook is the undrafted pool. And this year in particular, I get the sense from agents, I get the sense from some scouting directors as well that, you know, because of the number of players who went back to school because of the COVID, NCAA allowed them an extra year of eligibility. You know, it hasn't really resulted in a higher end group of talent come out. The top 10, 15 picks is kind of an ordinary year or below average this year. But the sheer number of people eligible this year is higher. So I think there are going to be some undrafted gems.

And I think that teams like the Vikings, you would assume, with Questy in charge now, would know that there is a resource there that needs to be exploited. There is an asset in putting a lot of work into the undrafted crop and dominating that facet. Because you'll come away with two or three players that are draftable quality and the vikings had that happen for them uh you know to succeed the first time around not so much the second time but you know someone like anthony harris who became a huge player for them sure succeeding and that's i guess my thing is the teams that rebuild and have success are able to build complete teams with a plan. And let's say that Joe Burrow wasn't the quarterback they picked.

Let's say it was somebody, let's say it was Jalen Hurts instead. So somebody who's playable, but not anywhere near as good, like not going to be like a generational talent. Wouldn't we still be talking about Cincinnati going into next year? They wouldn't have made the Superbowl, but going into next year, look at their cap space, look at how they've built their roster. Absolutely. Look at the players that they've stacked up. And that's where it's like, oh, well,

what if you move on and get the wrong quarterback? Right. But if you build that complete roster, then, well, one, Russell Wilson might just decide he's okay with being traded to you. Yes. And two, even if you draft someone who's just okay, you've got a chance. So that's my thing is use the cap space, gain as much draft capital as you can, and put everything into building a complete roster.

And then if you hit on the quarterback, then you've got a chance to go to a Super Bowl. Yeah, you absolutely took the perfect example there, which is Denver. And the line on them last year, but even before that too, for that matter, was that they have one of the best rosters in football outside of quarterback. If you eliminate that position and you just stack up, I don't know, I mean, whatever metric you want to use, like PFF scores or the opinions of eight or 10, anonymously, somehow you can get that information. I think you would argue that, you know, their 59 quarterbacks on their draft roster are pretty darn good. So they have built that thing up.

And I think George Payton is doing a really good job so far. I'm sure people are, you know, wistful there about the idea of him being, you know, letting him walk away essentially. But this was – he just won an award for the best rookie class from last year. I think he showed a master stroke in having a plan B with quarterback. Like, all right, Aaron Rodgers falls through. We've got a deal set to go for Wilson. Within hours they were ready to strike. And they felt confident in it. They didn't look back. No rear-view mirror stuff. And they moved on. And. And they felt confident in it. They didn't look back.

No rear-view mirror stuff. And they moved on. And that was the way to do it. And guess what? I think they got him for a song, too. So knowing what value in the league, especially when it comes to trades and things like that, can also give you subtle little edges that nobody can really project.

Yes, the Vikings could have had George Payton as their GM and Kevin Stefanski as their coach. That was on the table. They decided not to. Hindsight, yeah. Here we are. Well, that one you could have seen. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I'm not saying hindsight. I meant like it was almost as clear then as it is now, I think, in some ways. Yep, that's a what if. If the Vikings lose to New Orleans in the playoffs, is that the case here? Have you written about that before? Oh, you betcha.

That's a good one. I like that a lot. I'll have to give you credit for that little anecdote. I like it. Yep, yep. I was told that day that if they lost and it wasn't good, everyone was going to go and they were going to have George Payton and Kevin Stefanski. Yep. Unbelievable. Yeah, it's crazy. Anyway, well,

Eric underscore Ed Holman on Twitter, Yahoo sports is where you find them. One of the best draft reporters doing it. And what's the, what's the chess.com ranking up to? What's the ELO rating? Good question. I just had a draw last night i and i had a loss before that i gotta look i think i'm i think i'm higher than i should be i i i feel like it's not reflective of my actual like what my number would be but i think i'm around 17 or so whoa 1700 man that's pretty good that's pretty good. That's pretty good. I was, so when I pandemic, I hadn't played in like 15 years, like since college really. And I, you know, I obviously remember

the rules, but I was terrible. I was losing to the, uh, 1200 computer app and the 1300 consistently. But then I played every day from the start of the pandemic and I've regained and even gotten better than I was before. So my wife and kids hate me, but I've gotten better chess. Man. Our story is exactly the same. I played in high school and pandemic. I,

my wife asked if I could teach her how to play. So then I got the chess.com app, which is unbelievable. I love it. I mean, the, it gives you data and analytics and how stupid you are and all the moves you should have made and everything else,

which can be soul crushing when you win a game and then it's like yeah you played it like 50 percent lucky yeah i won one with four blunders yeah so i i uh i can beat the 2000 bots but one thing that i hadn't done is played other people very often with with time control so let's just say I'm good at classical, but not so much rapid. Oh, I'm not a rapid player. Yeah. I'm learning how to, the 10 minute game is just terrifying. Like you just get down to like a minute and you just, and I start making blunders all over the place. Yep. I mean, I won my first Blitz game against a lesser player and then I played someone slightly better in theory,

and they just wiped the floor with me. You just have to realize you're going to lose a bunch of games early on until you kind of get that feeling of like, well, don't look back. You made the move already. Let's go. It also helps on that app with the openings too, because there's some times where I'm like, I only know the first three steps of an opening or I don't know how, and you can kind of cheat and see what they are. Right. So that's why I think my,

my grade is a little bit out of whack. I think I'm probably closer to a 15 or something like that. Yeah. Well, I'm, I'm rooting for you to keep working up the ladder there. I mean, sometimes you'll look up and you're like, I've been playing this for like two and a half hours. I really should have been working. Yeah. The draft is two months away, dude. You may want to put your phone in the closet for a bit.

Right. Eric, great stuff. Great to get together again with you. And when I am next in Chicago covering Vikings Bears, we'll get together for some pizza, okay? I insist, man. I got a couple spots I think'll get together for some pizza. Okay. I insist, man. I got,

I got a couple of spots. I think you'll like, all right, perfect. We'll do it again. Zoom in. Thanks. All right,

buddy. Take it.