Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Yes we are already talking trade-up scenarios for the Vikings

Episode Date: January 10, 2024

Matthew Coller and Manny Hill talk with Vikings fans about the Vikings quarterback situations and how challenging it might be to make trades up and then discuss why Brian Flores hasn't gotten interest in head coaching positions yet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar, you know, with Manny Hill, uh, a day later, uh, than usual because, well, we both wanted to watch the national championship game. I did a reaction to it last night, but it wasn't that fun. And, you know, we could have just done the show normally halfway through the third quarter because it just never seemed like Washington was going to get close to the end zone. And then at the end, everything fell apart. It was a little closer than it looked, but not really. Michigan was way better than Washington at football and such as life. So why don't we start there and then we'll get into the Brian Flores stuff, more quarterback stuff for the Vikings. But I'll ask you a question that I addressed last night and I want your opinion on it, Manny. Was there any opinions of yours changed from what you went into thinking with the national championship game about Michael

Penix and JJ McCarthy to coming out of that game? Do you feel any differently about either one of those quarterbacks? Not really. I guess maybe a little bit different about Michael Penix because it did seem like at times the Sugar Bowl was just so different. He was fantastic, but really he didn't face a lot of pressure from Texas' defensive front. And so he was able to just sit in the pocket and just belay that Texas secondary pretty much all night long. Last night was different.

That Michigan defensive front really got after him. You know, he missed some throws. And I know people are, you know, talking about like his accuracy and he was off on some throws. I think sometimes when you're facing a defensive front like that and they're in your face every time you drop back to pass, it's going to rattle you a little bit, man, on that type of stage. And so as a result, you're going to be a little bit off. And Penix was off.

He missed some throws. He just never really felt comfortable. And then it looked like in the third quarter, he just got banged up quite a bit. They were they were really hitting him a lot. And, you know, at that point, you just never really felt like Washington, even though it was a still a seven point game in the fourth quarter, you never really felt like Penix is just going to take over and just drive this team down the field against that defense and tie the game. So I guess from that side of it, maybe a little bit different about Michael Penix,

but I still like him a lot. He still has a terrific arm. And I think, you know, given the right situation, the right system and scheme and coach, I think he can be really successful in the NFL. J.J. McCarthy. Yeah, go ahead. No, J.J. McCarthy, nothing changed whatsoever.

That was a typical J.J. McCarthy game. He has had several games in Colorado. I was looking at it before we started. J.J. McCarthy had six games this year where he passed for fewer than 150 yards. That tells you everything right there. And last night was kind of a typical Michigan game with the exception of last week against Alabama and probably Ohio State as well.

Michigan was beating everybody like that, where they run the ball, they're really physical with you, and they just suffocate you on defense and they blow you out by like 20 points and JJ McCarthy throws for like 150 yards like that's that was a typical Michigan game that's how they beat everybody pretty much all season long so nothing nothing really changed on my opinions on either quarterback and especially nothing really moved the needle on JJ McCarthy for me at all so the thing, I was looking to Michael

Penix's stats to try to figure out if this is like generally an issue for him under pressure, or if it was just against Michigan. And the answer is sort of both. The wild thing about Michael Penix is that he has a ton of big time throws under pressure. So he led the entire nation in big time throws under pressure, but also his completion percentage was not that great under pressure. And he's very good at not getting sacks, but does incomplete a lot of passes. As you saw, sometimes the footwork gets a little wonky. The base goes kind of wild and he just lets it fly.

And we saw a few passes under pressure that were just simply too high to open wide receivers there were also some bad breaks i mean he gets his leg stepped on as he seemingly was trying to throw it out of bounds under pressure it ends up in an interception that's going to be a very bad look on the box score probably on the pff graders as well Somebody just stepped on his leg. And I don't know what you're supposed to do about that. There were other times where the throws looked like they were in a place that he expected a receiver to be if he wasn't grabbed or if Roma Dunzay on one play just fell. And so it goes down as a pretty bad looking throw,

but they just didn't play a very good game around him. There was another one where he got blitzed and he just kind of flipped the ball out there to a guy on the third down. And it's right there in the bread basket and he just drops it. And that would have been first down. He drops an absolute dime, like 30 yards down the field where he kind of threw this rainbow and it fell right in the hands of a dunes a and it's a holding. And it like i okay i don't know like nothing is going to go right for this guy

as far as what pff tells us he had the uh let me look here i think it was 15th highest passing grade under pressure or somewhere in that ballpark so it wasn't amazing but it also was not terrible by any means for quarterbacks with a certain number of passes. I think he was, yeah, it was at 16th somewhere, somewhere in that ball park. So it was not like, Oh my gosh, this guy just cannot play under pressure at all. I think it was an accumulation of factors that also included, Oh no, actually he was sixth best. So he had the sixth best Pff grade under pressure during the season and one of the best as far as not getting sacked when he was pressured so i don't think that what

happened against michigan is what usually happens to michael pennix it's just that was different that was not all pressure is equal sometimes pressure is things are collapsing in on you and you got to move a little bit make a throw And sometimes you take the snap and the play is over because a dude just gets completely demolished. And that's what happened to their offensive line. I haven't looked at their O-line grades for that game. I guarantee you they were the worst of the year. Yeah. Interestingly, J.J. McCarthy has good stats while under pressure, but also he just doesn't ever throw a lot of passes.

I think he's actually really good at when somebody's chasing him, if he's scrambling and then he has to kind of flip his hips and throw the ball down the field, he throws the ball really well under those circumstances. But the straight drop back on third down was just miserable for him in that game. Washington does have a pretty good secondary, but there was not anything to speak of in those type of pure passing situations. And that's where I look at the Vikings and go,

how could this be your guy? Like they just, and I know college is different from the NFL and it's a run first program and Tom Brady played for a run first program. So I don't know, but this is a head coach who puts everything on the quarterback, everything, and he, everything on Nick Mullins. He put everything on Josh Dobbs. It's for better or worse. He will put everything on that quarterback. And you're going to ask that of a guy who throws for a hundred yards in the national championship game.

It just seems like it doesn't quite add up. Even if physically he has a strong arm, I think it's erratic with the accuracy. And as far as his running ability, it's there, but it's not incredible. So yeah, I didn't think that anything like whatever you thought going in,

the only thing that was changed is that people who got super high on Michael Penix and thought he was flawless were disappointed. But that often happens when you play a team that's way better than your team. I looked this up last year. C.J. Stroud, one of his worst games that he played all year was against Michigan. Same defense. He threw a couple picks, didn't have a very good game. Remember, they got they got run out of the building by that Michigan team with Ohio State last year.

Jim Harbaugh has just put together a really special group, and I think that had Penix lost the game against Texas, he would have walked out looking a little squeaky or clean. So in your mind, Manny, where do you expect Michael Penix to be in this draft process? Well, like as of today, which of course much can change going forward. I can still buy how he could end up going in the top 10 just because you're going to have a lot of teams in the top 10,

whether it's, you know, if the Vikings try to trade into the top 10 or somebody else that are going to need quarterbacks that are going to need quarterbacks that are going to be looking for a quarterback. And if we're figuring that may Williams and Daniels are probably going to go on the top five, you know, somebody is going to be sitting there from in that six to 10 range, that's going to want a quarterback. And in my mind, Michael Penix is still like the number four guy behind those other three so you figure he's going to be the next one taken out of that group so I think unless he

has just like a terrible combine and just answers interview questions horrifically which I don't expect to happen um I can still buy how he can still end up being a top 10 pick just because of the sheer need at that position by all those teams that are picking in that upper third part of the first round. Yeah, I think there's a lot of uncertainty with everyone that's not the top three. That if you are Caleb Williams, Drake May drake may or jayden daniels you're going to be in pretty good shape there but the rest i am really not sure of because i think we've seen those guys in the past the middle types go anywhere from surprising us at number six overall with daniel jones i think it was six or all the way into the second round with Jalen hurts that I didn't expect at all. Or Lamar Jackson, when he was drafted 32nd, that I thought

was not going to happen. I thought he was going to be a mid first round pick. So is Michael Pennix going to go in the top 10 because of his arm talent and people can work with some of the footwork or whatever, which is always something that NFL teams can work with when somebody can dedicate every day and every minute of their life to playing quarterback. Or are they going to say, not really sold on that athleticism, which Bo Nix is better and J.J. McCarthy. And here's a funny stat that I found poking around, a Bo Nix stat,

because I just don't really know a lot about Bo Nix. I feel like because he just blew out so many teams with wide open passing and quick game and everything. He was only under pressure this year on 15% of dropbacks and was unbelievable. He averaged 10 yards of pass, only had one turnover worthy play and 131 quarterback rating, but that was a total of 78 dropbacks that the guy had all year that were pressured. I can promise you it's going to be different than that in the NFL. So every single one of these players is going to have some big question of can McCarthy actually play real quarterback or is he only is he a Gary Kubiak style can run the bootlegs

and that's pretty much it with uh Penix you know can he improve when he's going to be 24 years old uh how much different is it going to be from you know running this spread everything out offense type of thing and with Bo Nix same kind of deal like a one-year wonder who played under really good circumstances so there's always going to be those questions. Answer a few questions of our own here. JP asks, should the Vikings fire someone on the offensive side of the ball? Wes Phillips or Curtis Modkins? The running game has been bad for two years,

and we've had the same guy at RB coach and run game coordinator. That's possible. I haven't seen anything yet. And we're going to talk with Kevin O'Connell and Kweisi tomorrow. So we'll see. I don't know. It's really hard to know. It's hard to know whose fault is whom's like, is it the blocking?

Is it the running back? Is it just that they didn't have enough talent when they had a talented running back in there? They ran fine with Ty Chandler for the most part when they weren't losing in a game and throwing for 400 yards, but they ran well the other day with Ty Chandler and against Cincinnati. Was it just running back talent? Like, I'm not sure. Uh, I wouldn't be surprised if they change running back coordinators, but how, how can I know that really like whose fault it was, was it personnel? Was it look, you got Dalton Reisner, who's a terrible run blocker,

but a great pass blocker that didn't help anything. I'm not sure. I don't know. You think they should fire some people, Manny? I don't know. I mean, how did the, how did the Vikings off? Where did the Vikings offensive line rank and pff grades with the run blocking so this was an interesting thing because uh i haven't checked it since the the lions game but they were 10th in run blocking but the problem with run blocking is if one guy makes a mistake and four guys plow everybody you'll grade as an offensive line well but that one guy could be the mistake that costs you the run or or you can block well and your running back can run straight into the tushy of a giant lineman and fall down which we saw happen a number of times or you can

block well and your guy can't get the edge because he's not fast enough which has happened i thought they lacked an identity rushing i thought they were just like smashing the keyboard like just let's try zone let's try duo let's try power does ham do anything um but they i think they graded probably better than they were in part because derisaw is so good at it. And Josh Oliver, I think was the highest graded run blocking tight end, which kind of tells you that one guy can only do so much. Right. But that's a hard thing to figure out when they had more running talent, they just ran like a real team. And when they didn't, they didn't. So I'm not sure. So, so what you're saying is they should probably call Gary Kubiak and bring them on as like a consultant maybe. It's always the answer. The answer is always call Gary Kubiak. Yes, 100% and run the outside zone.

But if you're going to do that, you kind of have to really commit to that bit. Digital Plains Media says, a long shot. Are we sure it's impossible to trade up to number one with Chicago? What type of haul would it take? What type of offer would you be comfortable making? So number one, yeah, I think Chicago is not going to give you Caleb Williams for the next 10 years. I think that there's limits to trading within your division. It probably ends at franchise quarterback. They will give you a tight end.

They will not give you a franchise quarterback. But top three or four this is something that came up i got an email from uh sarah who's a big listener to the show the other day she sent me a note asking like what do you what is it going to take if they need to trade up manny because taking michael pennix is probably not a bad idea can he play the role of jared goff for this offense i think he can whip the ball into a few tight windows and operate an offense and you can be in the top five if you can do that if you have enough weapons which they do but jayden daniels is just a lot different man and we talk about those stats those stats are

absurd and also if you watch them the eye test looks pretty damn good too from Jaden Daniels. So if you're talking about trading up, I think that everybody has that same opinion of Jaden Daniels and you're going to have to get really, really high up on the board. I'll call up the board here because it's set now for what it, what it is this year. I was thinking maybe fifth with the chargers, but it might have to be fourth with Arizona. And that's if they don't go one, two, three, but if Chicago, Washington, New England want quarterbacks, they're just going to take them. So that's going to be really hard. I think that we're in a Trey Lance situation if you want Jaden Daniels, which is – so I get away from calling him Jalen.

I call him Trey. We're in a Trey Lance situation trading up for Jaden Daniels. It might have to be three first-round picks. Yeah, I mean, you're – so if one of those – I mean, those top three, you got to think at least, at least two of them are going to take quarterbacks all three of them very well could but at least two of them and i'm thinking with the at least two i'm thinking washington and new england like maybe chicago wants to stick with justin fields and and take like a marvin harrison jr and give him another weapon to throw to or something like that.

But you got to think, Washington with a new coach, New England probably with a new coach, is going to be looking for a quarterback. And you're thinking about at least getting up to four or five. And those two teams are more likely to stick with the i mean the chargers are going to stick with with justin herbert i mean they'd be kind of silly not to at this point but um you know in arizona i i wonder with arizona like how feasible to get off of kyler's contract that's going to be for them because these i think he's what a 52 million

dollar cap hit or something for next season um so you're gonna have to find a trade partner who wants to take on that kind of money and then what sort of dead cap is that going to have on them as well maybe they just want to um stick with him so that could be a candidate to move up but even if you move up to four you got to hope that one of those three guys is going to fall to four. And it's kind of a, it's kind of a risk. You know, if, if, you know, if you don't think that that's going to happen, then you're probably better off just standing pat at 11 and seeing if, you know, panics or somebody falls to you there, which, which could happen. Folks, if you've been listening to the show, then you know how much fun we have been

having with prize picks this year. Just go to prizepicks.com slash purple. Use the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100. And let me tell you how it works. If you haven't heard us talk about it enough yet, or you haven't tried it yet. Very simple. There are yardage totals on prize picks. You either pick more or less and boom, you are playing. So last week, I'm going to be honest with you. I had a very tough week. I went Kirk Cousins more than 250 yards, Justin Fields more than 196, and Jordan Addison more than 54. And I went 0 for 3. This is by far my worst week. So this week I have to bounce back. Each week has been a roller coaster ride of fun.

And the best part is that when I have a bad week, I didn't lose much. It doesn't cost much to play. You can turn $10 into $250 very easily. And if things go sideways for you, you're not out a whole heck of a lot of money, but normally I do much better than this. So that is prize picks.com slash purple, just more or less on yardage totals. And you are in prize picks.com slash purple, the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100. I got a message from somebody.

Hold on. I will pull up the, from Brian, a listener to the show who asked basically what happens if they move on from cousins and can't get anybody. Like if they don't believe in penance or it gets taken earlier or they don't, you know, Knicks, they don't like those guys. Do they, what do they do? Like trade for Mac Jones or something? Or if Baker Mayfield returns to Tampa, I would say if Baker Mayfield wins a playoff game against Philadelphia, that he is very likely back as Tampa Bay's quarterback. And that leaves you a little out on an Island.

Now we are a million miles away from the draft, but that's a situation that I wasn't really thinking about is what if we do get to a spot where it's sort of like will Levis last year, they didn't believe in him. That's the only quarterback left. Who's a first round talent ish. And then they pass, but Kirk has already moved on. And then you're the only quarterback on your rosters, Jaron Hall or something. They would have to sign a free agent earlier. So they would, I guarantee they would bring in a veteran similar to how Andy Dalton came in when the bears drafted Justin Fields, but that scenario is a little bit scary. So if they're going to move on from Kirk, it feels like they better be sold on at least

two of these guys that are not Jaden Daniels, because that could be difficult. Or if they're going to make that trade, you should do it well before the draft, similar to what San Francisco did. So you know exactly what you're doing on draft day. Justin says, if we're talking about McCarthy versus Penix for the Vikings, it's Penix by a mile. It's got accuracy, poise, leadership skills that match very well with KOC, injuries notwithstanding. I've thought that for a while too, Manny, that if we're talking best fit, a guy who stands in the shotgun and just operates every bit of an offense,

it's all on his shoulders, and his big thing is firing that thing down the field into tight windows. I mean, even the touchdown he had, it wasn't like he was without moments. The touchdown that he had was very nice. I mean, he had like a couple of different options and had to go through progressions and find his guy in the back of the end zone. I agree that if we're talking best fit, it's still Penix if it's not one of the top three. Yeah, me too. The only concerns I have about Michael Penix are the complete lack of mobility and durability. Those are the only really concerns I have about him. The arm is incredible.

He's a high-character guy. He was very successful in the offense that he ran, successful in the offense that he ran in two different places. You know, I mean, at Indiana, he was very good before all the injuries. And then, obviously, post-injuries at Washington, he's been very good too. So as long as he could stay healthy, and even then, the mobility is not as – especially if Kevin O'Connell is going to run this type of scheme, I'm not as concerned about the mobility because we've seen it work

with Kirk Cousins as the quarterback, who's obviously not very mobile. So I think as long as he can just stay healthy, then I'm sold on everything else about him. Skull Vikings says, hard to say if New England will draft quarterback at three and Arizona probably wants their wide receiver at four. New England might have Kirk Cousins as their quarterback by the time they get to the draft. The issue with trading up though, from where the Vikings are, is that the wide receivers could be at the top.

So the guy from LSU and then Harrison jr, those guys are going to go extremely, extremely high. So if you're Arizona and you want Marvin Harrison jr, you're not trading all the way back down to 11th. And let me tell you a little bit about regrets, Manny. I saw Kevin Seifer tweeted. The Vikings were one loss from being sixth in the draft order. How about that?

Josh Dobbs game that we'll never forget. Would you give it back to be sixth as opposed to 11th? I'm going to go ahead and say as fun as that was, yes, you would a thousand times out of a thousand give that back in order to be sixth instead of 11th. But if they don't, that is, it is a scary proposition. Let me call this up here for the free agent quarterbacks this year coming up because it's not, it's not like there's a lot of free agent quarterbacks that are just available all

the time. So outside of Kirk, you have Ryan Tannehill, which is a no for me, dog Jacoby Brissett, which you'd prefer not to Jacoby Brissett, 32 years old. Now, by the way, he's been around forever. Uh, Tyrod Taylor is a great backup. Marcus Mariota. No, Sam Darnold. No. Drew Locke. No. Jameis Winston. Absolutely not. Uh, Baker Mayfield, I think actually would be a great fit with this team, but I think he's going to stay in tampa bay because i mean he's a guy with a big arm who could throw the ball down the field and uh gardner minshu does not have the arm to make these throws and then joe flacco so you better all figure it out i mean

outside i mean baker i think baker would be a great fit here. All those other guys are just kind of like if like if those are all guys that if you do get that quarterback in the first round, those are kind of your bridge guys where they come in and you let you know, you let come in and let the Gardner Minshew start right away until your young guy is

ready to go. But if you don't get a guy and you're still having to sign Gardner Minshew and have him start all 17 games for you you're probably going to go 7 and 10 again in 2024 probably at best so I wonder if anyone is trading their quarterback this year because in past years almost every every season every offseason we've seen some sort of quarterback trade going back to Stafford and then Russell Wilson. And Kyler Murray is the one that I do wonder how they feel about that cap hit. But with Kyler Murray, it's a really similar situation to Detroit. If you tank with an expensive

quarterback, you can still draft players and build around them and you're okay. Cap space wise, it's kind of like the Vikings accidentally did with did with daniel hunter and stefan digs like they drafted insanely well so even though sam bradford was expensive they were still able to afford those players uh in 2017 on the salary cap that's what detroit's doing now aiden hutchinson jameer gibbs amin ross st brown soon enough they will be expensive and they'll have things harder. But I am having trouble seeing any quarterbacks that will be traded this year or even quarterbacks that have been locked down in a particular spot that will be surprisingly released other than obviously Russell Wilson, we know is going to be likely to be available, though George Payton sort of hinted that it was possible that he won't be just weird. I guess you

have to do that, but I'm pretty sure he's going to be available. Aside from that though, I don't really see any other quarterbacks aside from Justin Fields, which again, they're not going to trade to the Vikings that are going to be available that were starters or at the end of their road or something like that. So yeah, the answer is to that question, they better have it figured out. They really better have it figured out, or you are going to be left on no quarterback Island and really not know what is going on. Baker Mayfield is a potential option if you're going to pay him more than Tampa Bay,

but I would guess that if he wins a playoff game, he's going to want to stay there and keep building with them. Yeah. I'm just kind of looking at some of these other teams and hey, right. I don't see, I mean, if New England is going to take another quarterback, would they trade Mac Jones? But I'm not even sure Mac Jones does a lot for me at this point. I was intrigued by him when Kirk went down, but then later on he ended up getting benched for Bailey Zappi, and it's just like, eh, he's just not good. So I don't know. You know, it couldn't be farther apart, the 2020 and 2021 drafts.

If you look back at the 2020 draft for quarterbacks, it's insane. It's Joe Burrow, Tua, Herber, Love, Hertz. Oh, my God. They're all good. And then the next year, it's Trevor Lawrence, who I think is really good and was close this year, but the injuries really took their toll at the end of the season and their defense was not that good. And maybe Doug Peterson isn't as much of a quarterback whisper,

or it just, you know, didn't work out, but I think he's still good. Everyone else though, fields might get traded and he's pretty good. Zach Wilson's a train wreck. Total disaster.

Mac Jones, total disaster. Mac Jones is weird. he's a case of was it confidence that was destroyed by bill belichick plus circumstance plus they brought in matt patricia and all of his old friends and etc etc but i also think that his resilience his toughness that sort of stuff was not great and And that's what we talk about sometimes, even with Caleb Williams, how no prospect is perfect. Caleb Williams. I wonder about that. Like the resilience, the leadership, the, how are you going to handle when stuff goes wrong? And Mac Jones did not

handle it very well. He also had the worst receivers and the worst offensive line in the entire league. I would not feel very confident going with him. The same with the chat brings up Carson Wentz. That's a no from me, dog. I just, no reason whatsoever to think that Carson Wentz would be a good pick. Nathan says, I don't know how the Vikings can sit at pick 11 with no quarterback and just hope. That's the thing.

Would you do it, Manny, if the Patriots said, give us three firsts, you can move up to number two? Yeah, I probably would. I think I probably would. Yeah, because then at that point, you're guaranteed either Drake May or Caleb Williams or Jaden, you know, or Jaden. I almost called him Jalen Daniels now to myself. You're on an impact on me. Jaden Daniels, you're, you're kind of getting your, you know,

regardless of what Chicago does at that point, you move up to two, you're getting one of those three guys guaranteed. So yeah, I'd probably do it just to, just to make sure you get one of those top three guys. And at that point I would probably, if the bears don't take Jaden Daniels, I would probably take them number two. take jayden daniels i would probably take him number two if i'm able to move up there that's a hard one daniels versus drake may is tough drake may throws a very nice football uh i'll let them decide on that but daniels is very

very very fun and very very talented uh christian says that uh he still feels like kyler murray could be a dark horse and i I don't disagree with that. I mean, it feels like what Arizona's plan is, is to just have that roster ripped all the way to the screws and then build around him over the coming years rather than searching for a quarterback. But how often do you get a shot if one of those teams in front of you doesn't draft one? I just have a tough time

like how could the patriots not how could they not considering where they're at how could washington not washington in that 2020 draft said you know what we really need chase young that's what we really need we're gonna stick with our quarterbacks we're gonna have chase young and they passed up on all these quarterbacks who have that literally four quarterbacks who became very good and ended up trading chase young later what what did the niners give up for him like it was a second round pick third round pick something like that for him not enough not enough to justify not drafting tua or herbert or love or hurts. So yeah, that's where it becomes, I think, very tricky to get those guys. So then do you have to play in the second tier of good quarterback prospects? And then through the years, we're going to, or not through the years, through the months

coming up, we're going to see, and I was going to ask you this before we get into the brian flores discussion which quarterbacks kind of come out in the shuffle of the senior bowl circuit combine interviews bs leaks s2 tests what a great time for s2 tests by the way i hope teams set them on fire when they show up. Hey, here's the set S2 results, you know, set it on fire. Yeah. I think CJ Stroud took care of that for everybody. But anyway, who do you think has the biggest potential to be a riser in the draft of

these quarterbacks? I was thinking about this. I feel like it's probably bo nicks just because of obviously the the production of what he had at oregon this year um he was a heisman finalist and you know he's got that athleticism too where he can kind of run around and make throws on the run and he doesn't have a you, he doesn't have as good an arm as Michael Penix, but it's a pretty good arm. He can make some throws down the field. And he's kind of a high character guy too.

I mean, he's really well-liked by his teammates. Things didn't work out at Auburn, but he transferred over to Oregon and fit in right away with that culture and that coaching staff and those players. So I could see a scenario where somebody talks with him, interviews with him, watches him in the combine. He has a really impressive combine. And somebody falls in love with him. And he ends up getting taken in sort of that upper half of of the first

round it seems like right now he's maybe slated to go late first round second round maybe something like that but um i could i could see it i i feel like those other guys are pretty well locked in like those those top three guys are pretty well locked into like all if not uh two of them going somewhere in the top five so i feel like bo nicks is the guy that could kind of rise up some people's boards and you know if somebody is desperate enough to take a quarterback that he could be a guy that they take bradley says scenario would it be possible to trade back hybrid edge rusher? Take only if they're two tier two quarterbacks like Pennix or Knicks stop and somehow get back near the first round. It's a little jumbled in the comment, but I see what you're saying.

I think if you need a quarterback, you have to take them and you can't risk them dropping off the board. Like if you're in desperate need and you like them, you just take them. And if you drafted them a little too high, Oh, well, because you can't risk losing them. So that, that would be my thought.

If you think that Bo Nix is the 15th best prospect and you're drafting 11th, you just take them at 11th. If you, you could do the Cincinnati, Andy Dalton thing where they took their starting quarterback in the second round, Derek Carr was the second-round pick. Jalen Hurts was the second-round pick.

To me, that's too risky to even wait around and see who's there in the second round and then say, hey, you're going to be our guy. I don't really love that idea. Rich says, would you strike up a package with Arizona Chargers to get a future quarterback because they already have their franchise quarterback? Yeah, no, that's the, that is, if it's going to happen, that's how it happens. I think, uh, unless new England or Washington, which would be the funniest thing ever, but no, Washington's not getting Kirk, but if new England were to sign Kirk cousins,

and I think they could be, if they keep Belichick, they're in win now mode. They are not, oh, let's rebuild the whole thing around a rookie. And do you want Belichick with a rookie quarterback after looking at Mac Jones's face this year? I don't think so. So I also have a tough time believing that Kirk would want to go to the Boston market as a career Midwest fella. That might be a lot with no wide receivers. Doesn't seem very likely they could chase somebody else as a potential quarterback, but it feels to me as of this moment, as of January 9th, that those top three teams all should be drafting quarterbacks. And that makes life very difficult on the Vikings,

unless they really like one of those other three, which I think are all good prospects. When you look at McCarthy statistics, they're really good overall. When he actually throws the football, it's not bad. And so there it's not like there's not guys there. Uh, it's that they're just not of the same caliber. Um, Kyle says, remember when Hendon Hooker was too old and he thought that Knicks would fall victim to the too old take two. Yeah, Hendon Hooker was two years older than these guys, than Knicks and Pennix. That's a little bit different. That's like he was a full grown adult. Like that man, his hairline was looking like ours.

Like just he had four children who were in their teens like this guy was old man like he's he's gonna be turning 26 years old i think in like a couple months hendon hooker remembered standard death like he was he was very old uh yeah pennix pennix will be 24 in May. So when he starts at the beginning of the season, it's, you know, he's going to be the same age that Joe Burrow was when he was starting. I don't look at that as being quite the same. Let's talk about Brian Flores.

So far as I can tell, there has been no interviews for Brian Flores thus far. Your thoughts? I'm not surprised. He did basically sue the league. So I'm not terribly surprised by that. Also, as somebody who wants to see the Vikings succeed, I'm not upset by it either in some way, shape, or form.

I mean, a part of me is upset about it because for, you know, the reasons why he's suing the league, and I think that it speaks to a much larger issue around the league. But I think for selfish reasons as a Vikings fan, I'd be happy to have him back as defensive coordinator so i'm okay with that from on that side of it um and i think it just gives gives them an opportunity to really try and and build and mold this defense to his liking because there are some players that are likable that you like long-term on this team defensively,

but there's still a lot of room for improvement on that side of the ball. But yeah, I mean, it is unfortunate from the standpoint of the bigger picture story of just why he sued the league, why that whole thing is happening, and why. I mean, because when you look at the cards that he was dealt with this year, he did a terrific job. Now, they got banged up late in the season. I think they just kind of ran out of gas and ran out of steam. And when they started playing some better offenses,

they got exposed a little bit. But I think considering where the defense was last year with that Donatello, him stepping in, making some changes. I thought he did a terrific job and, you know, it'd be good to have him back with the organization next year. I don't know that it's over yet for Brian Flores, just because he's not in the first round of interviews. There is a decision to be made in new England still.

And if new England moves on from bill Belichick, then they couldn't do it as a black Monday tweet for bill Belichick. It has to be very delicately done. If he's going to walk away from new England, considering he has an argument for being the greatest coach in the history of football as so it wasn't going to be just wake up on monday morning opening to it oh they fired bill belichick oh they fired uh whoever else like he can't just be lumped in with all these other coaches who just get canned so if they move on

from him then brian flores suddenly becomes a candidate. And if the first round of interviews for some of these other teams don't go the way that they want, or they lose out on candidates, maybe his name ends up still cropping up. But I thought we would at least get a so-and-so has requested permission to, or team tweets out who they're going to interview. Here's our list. And Brian Flores would be on it. Him not being on it does speak probably a lot to the lawsuit. He did have some interviews last year.

I don't know how serious those interviews were. That was actually his problem the first time is that they were unserious interviews. And that's also possible that he would say no to certain teams requesting him for an interview. I'm not sure because he doesn't just want to be interviewed for the sake of being interviewed because they have to. It might be a little more delicate situation. It's also possible that the league heard what Ryan Fitzpatrick said, and it wouldn't matter. It really wouldn't matter. Ryan Fitzpatrick is a, uh, is a funny guy, an interesting cat, but very, very, very well respected. And he went on national television

and said he did not appreciate the way Brian Flores handled Tua. And that is a pretty damning statement that even though it's just one guy's opinion, It's a really highly respected opinion. And if you are another team, what are you mostly looking for a coach to do manage the quarterback? And, and if they feel like you didn't manage a young quarterback well in Miami and that there were a lot of mistakes made, then that could play into it. I think it might. And also he had momentum in the middle of the season when they had that shutout of the Raiders, but that quickly died off when a bunch of teams put 30 on them at the end of the year. And there was a lot less discussion about how brilliant Brian Flores was. In my opinion, I think that there have been a lot of coaches who have not handled their first opportunity perfectly and everyone hates retreads. They always want new coaches, new coaches, new coaches. And yet there's dozens of examples of coaches who had their first

job. It didn't work out. And then it did in their second, or they were good in one place and they were even better in another place. I think that people can grow and especially being around Kevin O'Connell would help. And you saw the NFL PA put out a thing for players to vote, like approval ratings for their assistant coaches. And the Vikings had two of them, including Brian Flores, but also Matt Daniels getting the highest marks. Well, that doesn't exactly scream that the guy is like a psycho bully. So he might be, I don't know. I don't think so. I think more that when you come up with that Belichick tree, you got to shake it off. You got, you have to shake off the, try to do the job like Belichick with that like psychotic kind of approach that hard nose approach, because every one of his

assistants, they go other places. And if you're not Belichick, all that stuff just seems corny. If you don't have the rings and you don't have Brady, you're just a lunatic. And that's basically what every one of those guys has been. And maybe there was a little bit of that with Flores, like the influences of Kevin O'Connell would make him better. But if he doesn't get a job, I won't be in the least bit surprised. And he can add that to the depositions the depositions for the nfl of him

turning around this defense and still not getting any interviews yeah absolutely and you know i even like with new england you kind of wonder if like you know mike rabel just got let go and you kind of wonder if that's that's a guy too that they might prefer and rabel was a guy he played for Belichick, but I don't believe he ever coached under Belichick. He came from another staff. I think he was – was he with Bill O'Brien's staff in Houston? I think, if I'm not mistaken.

And then he ended up being the coach of the Titans. So, you know, but that's a guy that has obviously previous ties to the New England Patriots being a former player, part of the first, you know, first half of that dynasty, those crop of Super Bowls. So he could be a guy that, you know, I mean, and he had a lot of success in Tennessee the last two years, you know, 22 and this past season didn't go well for him. But, you know, I was got took them to the playoffs with ryan tannahill multiple years in a row so um you know we'll see how that plays out

but flores i think did a really good job with his defense and i i think given the opportunity to you know sort of add to it bring in some players. We've talked about sort of an interior pass rush. You know, obviously the safeties are really good. Corners could probably use a little bit more work. But I think if you give them another year to kind of just add some pieces and free agency, if you let Kirk Cousins walk and you have a little more cap space, maybe you could do that. I don't know.

Maybe you can explore some improvements on defense and free agency. But what the hell do I know? But anyway, so, yeah, I think it would be, you know, for the Vikings sake, it would be good to have Flores back for another year and, you know, another year of stability under that defense. Because you don't, I mean, you don't really want to have a third defensive coordinator in three years. That can really kind of screw things up a little bit in terms of continuity.

So it would be good to have Flores back. Are you saying that changing coordinators all the time can be chaotic? Because Mike Zimmer does not agree with that. Yeah, no, but I agree. The biggest thing about Brian Flores that I like is his player valuation ability. I think that he was blitzing out of necessity because he had to because he had no one that could rush the passer. Any chart you see of pass rush win rates, it's like,

Daniel Hunter is somewhere in the good range, and then everybody else is in the worst possible place on that chart. And that's for everybody. That's for, uh, you know, Patrick Jones, even DJ Wanham, who had a better year, Harrison Phillips, Jonathan Bullard, nobody else could rush the passer, give him a little bit of pass rush, possibly in free agency. And I, I thought I caught a hint of you saying, if they move on from Kirk, that they might have more cap space to do something like that, but his ability to develop players, to get the most out of players. And even as far as drafting, you know, I liked them getting Mackay Blackman, which I think was a lot to do with Brian Flores and what he wanted. So yeah, I building around him over even the

coming years. If Brian Flores has done as a head coach in the NFL, there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, Steve Spagnuolo was a pretty bad head coach with the Rams and ended up being a what Superbowl winning defensive coordinator with the giants. Is that right? And then also Superbowl winning defensive coordinator with Kansas city. It's fine to be an awesome defensive coordinator. So maybe that's where he'll be long-term and they can build the defense, how he envisions it. Let's close the show with this. Well, let me ask you one more Vikings question before I ask you about the

coaching openings. Kwesi Adolfo Mensah and Kevin O'Connell are talking tomorrow. So we'll have a reaction podcast from TCO performance center. I would say it'll be up in the afternoon at some point, but what do you, what do you want to hear from those guys? Like what, what question would you want answered aside from obviously so much playing a quarterback? Like that's someone will yell at, but other than that, what would be your question? I want to know how they're going to, you know, improve the running game.

I mean, and, you know, just the overall commitment to that. You know, I think you have so many good pieces on offense. The offensive line, I think, was improved from years past. The passing attack is really good and really sound, you know, and I think we kind of saw that it doesn't necessarily have to be kirk cousins to go out and execute this offense if you can get a guy with a really strong arm and push the ball down the field with accuracy and and anticipation and all that stuff that it can be a functioning passing offense with the weapons that they have. But, you know, I just would be curious with KLC specifically, like, how does he really feel about running the football?

And I'm not saying they have to go the Mike Zimmer route where it's just you have to be 50-50. We have to be balanced between how many throws and how many runs and all of that, that whole obsession that Mike seemed to have. quarter, it helps to have that running game be really sound and really productive. And it just felt like too many times they just kind of abandoned it completely this season. So I would, the number one thing I would want to know from from Kwesi, but more specifically KOC is just like, how do you feel about the idea of just having a stronger running game and having more of an emphasis on having a productive running game and all of that? So that's that's primarily what I would want to know from them. Yeah, and that's a question we've kind of been asking throughout the season, and there's been a lot of different answers. And the hard part is can you

invest anything at the running back position there's a bunch of running backs that are going to be available but can you really invest time into uh you know the or not time well time into drafting one and developing them if it's the middle round or money into that position when you're already going to have to invest money in a lot of other places. That's what's the biggest challenge. And then yeah, how much do you attribute to scheme and so forth is definitely a question because to have no run game whatsoever for two years, it's not going to work if you're drafting another quarterback. That's a good one. I don't know. It's always hard for me to get in

questions when it's the GM and the coach, because it's the, the room is full. Like normally there's a handful of people and you can get in whatever question sometimes when all, when all the TV stations show up, then it's different. But we know the quarterback will be center stage of the conversation tomorrow for sure. All right. There's as of this moment, here are the openings in the NFL commanders, Falcons, Raiders, chargers. We don't know about the Patriots, uh, Panthers and Titans. So commanders, Falcons, Raiders, chargers, Panthers, Titans. I think that's all of it. I think, am I missing one? I think that's right. Yep. So give me your team that you would want the most to take over if you were a head coaching candidate

and the team that you would least want to take over if you were a head coaching candidate. The team that I would most want to take over right now is probably the Atlanta Falcons. And the reason why is because even though there's not really a good quarterback situation there right now, they seem to have a lot of other really good pieces on the defensive side and specifically on the offensive side with the receivers that they have. You know, I'm still, I mean, Kyle Pitts wasn't very productive this year, but I think a lot of that had to do with just Arthur Smith's incompetence in trying to use him.

But he's a really good young piece. You've got Bijan Robinson in your backfield as well. I would want to take that position. You know, Arthur Blank, I think, has been a pretty good owner that's, you know, treated his players right and treated his coaches right and given them fair opportunities. I think Arthur Smith got a fair opportunity and just didn't do enough with it. I would like to be in that situation and then have that opportunity to find my quarterback, if that's spending money in free agency to bring in a veteran guy like a kirk cousins or something like that um or it's you know utilizing the draft assets that we have to move up

you know maybe into that top five range because they're within striking distance too just like just like the vikings are to maybe move up and take one of those top one of those top three guys too so atlanta's the the the team i'm looking at that intrigues me the most um the the team that i was least interested in is was kind of hard for me it was it was kind of a toss-up between the chargers and the panthers i'll probably say the panthers um the chargers only because the chargers are a little more intriguing because they have the young quarterback already, but they're in a really bad cap situation. And you kind of wonder, like, it's a team that needs work that needs to improve, but you just kind of wonder,

you know, will they have the free agency money to be able to go out and improve on defense in particular? But you have Justin Herbert, so that's a nice start. Carolina is just a mess. It's a mess. Their young first-round quarterback might be good, but so far he hasn't been. And you don't have a first-round pick to try and help him, to even give him more weapons.

And he needs more weapons lord knows that um they don't really have a lot on defense either and on top of that they've got an owner who is kind of doing this stuff a little bit too much um and david tepper so i'd probably want no parts of the carolina pan Panthers as a vacancy right now. I think you were pulling the puppet strings. Is that what that motion was supposed to be? It's just putting your hands in places where it doesn't need to be, basically. Okay.

Yeah, okay. I could see that. I actually think that as weird and crazy as David Tepper may be, that it was the right decision not to have Frank Reich. That was not working with his offense and with Bryce Young. It just seemed to be a bad fit. They didn't have a lot of stuff that helps quarterbacks, motions and quick game and stuff like that.

And I thought that it was asking him to kind of be in the shotgun. And it just, there was like a lot of stagnation to that offense that I thought that it was asking him to kind of be in the shotgun. And it just, there was like a lot of stagnation to that offense that I thought the Vikings really took advantage of when they played him. And that my only sample size of really watching him is against the Vikings. So maybe it was a little different than that, but it was a bad fit with an older coach who maybe was running some antiquated stuff.

I don't hate Carolina as a job. If I'm a coach going there aside from Tepper, because you just have everything fresh. And if you don't like Bryce Young, then you can move on from him. But it also could be a Jared Goff type of Sean McVay situation where you go in there and you get, you know, a bunch of new players and stuff, or even with the Texans. I mean, the Texans were, what, a two-win team last year with Davis Mills starting, and you go in there, you kind of change things around, you change the offense around,

and maybe get some receivers, some offensive linemen, and you could see it working because you have a very talented young quarterback, and if it doesn't work, you just get rid of him. But if you're going to the titans what's the goal that like what do you have to work with you have no quarterback you have a blair line you got an old derrick henry you have a defense that's faded over the last couple years i mean what is there to work with in t? You're not drafting high enough to be able to go get, you know, one of these top quarterbacks.

What are you even really doing? And their ownership, you know, you could talk about Tepper and Carolina. I watched the interview with their owner talking about why they fired Mike Frabel, and I thought, I don't know. What percentage of these owners have no idea what they're doing? Like at least 60% and a 40% are completely insane. So he's, he just was a little too out there with throwing the drink on the fan, but probably isn't that different from a lot of other owners. Uh, I, I think that, that it's better that you get Bryce young and kind of a

clean slate than it is just this muddled garbage pile in Tennessee. They're going to have to build a new stadium. Like everything with that, that franchise is just messed up right now. That would be last. And I totally agree with you with Atlanta. The Chargers is a hard one because the Chargers, if you don't win right away with Justin Herbert, you're fired.

Boom. You're out uh you have like a year you better be good next year or you're gonna be one and done with that franchise because herbert herbert does the kirk thing where he's just good enough to get you fired and you just he's just good enough to set the bar high and then not reach it and i don't know how many times i've said that during the Kirk era, like he's just, just good enough to get his coach on the hot seat wherever he goes.

And that feels similar to Herbert where you're wowed by the talent. And yet it's never quite get you over the top. So you better have an answer. And you also better really have an answer on defense because Brandon Staley's defense was an atrocity, which also impacted Herbert as well. So, all right,

well, tomorrow we will have a reaction podcast from TCO performance center with myself and we'll rag it's right after Kwesi Adafo Mensah and Kevin O'Connell's press conference. So you're going to want to make sure you check that out. And also Manny and I on Thursday, we're just going to go team by team, game by game,

break it all down, get your opinions, Manny on the playoffs, which we will be watching from home rather than me covering a playoff game. But I'm used to that. So anyway, all right. Thanks everybody for watching slash listening. And we'll talk to

you later.