Pursuit of Wellness - Being A Woman In Business, Shark Tank, Negotiating, Misogyny & Work Life Balance w/ DEUX Founder Sabeena Ladha

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

Ep. #4 Today on the show we have Sabeena Ladha, founder & CEO of DEUX. Deux is a good for you gluten free & vegan edible cookie dough company. Sabeena and I chat about her evolution from the junk food industry to wellness, boundaries as a founder, and how to have the confidence in a board room. PLUS we spill the tea on our new Bloom x Deux collab: Mari's Matcha cookie dough! For Mari’s Instagram click here!   To shop Bloom Nutrition greens click here!   To download Mari’s workout plan & recipes click here!   2023 Goal templates click here!   To shop DEUX cookie dough click here! Produced by Dear Media. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi guys, it's Mari and you're listening to The Pursuit of Wellness. Today on the show, I have a close friend and inspiring entrepreneur, Sabina Lada. Sabina is the founder of the gluten-free vegan edible cookie dough that lives in my fridge. Dough. Dough's cookie dough is popular amongst influencers, celebrities, models, and I know my community is obsessed. What I love about Sabina is her get-after-it attitude as a fellow female entrepreneur in the health industry. It's unique to find real honest people who are down to work hard, but also share knowledge along the way.

She's a powerhouse and it's been inspiring to watch her brand grow. Sabina, welcome to the show. Oh my God, I'm going to cry. Wait, yeah, you are a little bit teary right now. That was so cute. Yeah, just a little something I wrote for you. I love it. So I always ask my guests this. If an Uber driver were to ask you what you do, what would you say?

Oh my God. I always feel so dumb saying this. I've had Uber drivers ask me what I do. And I say, I have a cookie company. But like, that makes you seem so wholesome and sweet. Yes, I know. And I'm the opposite of that. I'm like not wholesome and sweet at all.

Maybe like when you first meet me, but not after you get to know me. No, but that's literally what I know. And I'm the opposite of that. I'm like not wholesome and sweet at all. Maybe like when you first meet me, but not after you get to know me. No, but that's literally what I say. I say like I have a cookie company or like I have like a dessert company because I don't know what to say. So they think I like make cookies at my house. Yeah, like a grandma. That's what my mom thought until I was on Shark Tank. Like she was just like, what is this like weird side business that you have? And I was like, mom, we're going to do a million dollars in our first year. And she was like, what? OK, she didn't really understand until I was on Shark Tank. Yeah. Cause you're a savage. I'm a savage. You are a savage. That I can agree with. So confirmed savage. You met Greg first. Yes. Can you tell us? I'm a savage. Greg is like an actual savage. Yeah. No, Greg, you and Greg both are savages. How did you meet Greg? I love him.

This is such a funny story. We were at this natural foods convention. It's called Expo West for people who don't know. And it's it's now, I think, a little more open to the public. I see a lot of influencers and stuff there, but it's usually like an industry thing. Like the retailers will be there like Target and Walmart and Whole Foods. And then you have like a bunch of agency people there. And then, you know, each brand has their own booth. And this was like our big kind of coming out party, I guess. So we had this bright, hot pink booth that was like neon and beautiful. And, you know, so we had a lot of, I would say, people coming in and saying hi. And when he first swung by, so like he was like walking by and the booth was pretty packed.

And so my attention is so, it's like ADD in those moments because I'll say hi to people. There'll be like consumers that I want to chat with. But then if I see someone with like a Whole Foods badge, I like forget everyone. I'm like, I need to go talk to that person. And so, and I'll like usually pawn people off based on who they are. Like, oh, you want to meet my director of marketing, Patrick? And so he comes by and he is like, mind you, I'm sure everyone who's listening has seen Greg. He's like this yoked like Italian guy that's just like larger than life, like just big personality, like such big, like it's almost like he has an aura, like his energy is so big. And he comes by the booth and he says hello and he introduces himself to me. And, you know, I thought it was going to be like a 10 second conversation, just like, oh, hey, nice to meet you. Do you want

to try some product? And he's like, my wife is obsessed with your brand. And I was like, oh, oh my gosh, that's so nice. And he was like, no, you don't understand. He's like, I have a brand also. It's called Bloom. He's like, I swear to God, it's legit. And I was like, I believe you. Like, because initially I was like, oh, is he going to try to sell me something? And he pulled out his phone and pulled out the Instagram. He's like, look at how many followers we have. He's like, it's legit. And then I put it together. Then I was like, oh, then I realized you're an influencer. And then you also have this brand. But he initially had to be like, I am legit. Chat with me. And then immediately I was like, oh my God, I love this guy. He was just like so funny and charming and like loud. And I was like, you have all of my attention. I was like, we're going to hang out. And we ended up hanging out and getting drinks. But he's just so

funny. He like is so outgoing and has such a good energy and is such a hustler too to be like, no, I'm legit. And you're going to take me seriously because I mean, y'all are bigger than we are, right? Like it's like, it is crazy to think about that. He's, you know, he's like having to show like our brand has a lot of followers. No matter how successful we get, Greg will always have this need. He's just kind of humble in that way. Like, he feels like he has to prove himself to everyone. I think he has a little bit of that chip on his shoulder.

My husband's like, I can't see you. The chip on your shoulder is like showing too husband's like, I can't see you. The chip on your shoulder is like going too heavily. Like I it won't go away. I think it's like something with started from the bottom. Now you're here. Yeah. Thing that you always think like either you don't belong or you have to prove yourself. And like, I hate that I do this. But like when someone's not taking me seriously, I have to drop. Oh, we were on Shark Tank or like, oh, we're in retail. We're in Target. We're in Whole Foods like show that we're're legit. I do it too. Yeah. And like when he did it, I immediately was like, oh, you're like my type of guy. Yeah. I'm from a small town in Texas. I

will always have that chip on my shoulder. I feel like a lot of people who are super successful have a chip. Like, I don't know if I've met a successful person without the chip. Yeah. On their shoulder. I also think it keeps you going. Because once you think you've made it, then what? Yeah. Then if you just relax, like if you reach the top and you're like, oh, cool, we can chill here. You're never going to make it. No. So I agree with that. So you mentioned Fort Worth, Texas. Yes. I know you grew up there. What was it like there? Was health emphasized in your childhood? No, not at all. I ate Kraft mac and cheese for dinner and Oreos for breakfast. And, you know, we had pizza lunches like that's what you would eat in school, like pepperoni

pizza with the lunch. And it's a little town called Ulus, actually. And, you know, I think part of it is there's kind of an education gap. You don't know. And then part of it is like, depending how you grow up, especially socioeconomically, like you don't have access. Like you can't go to Whole Foods or you can't, you know, shop at those places. And I played sports my whole life. So I played basketball and ran track. So externally and like I think I do have a naturally kind of high metabolism, but like externally people think, oh, there's nothing wrong with her. But like internally, my insides are like absolutely disgusting, like atrocious. And I didn't really start educating myself on it until I got to college because it wasn't really emphasized at all. Like we had home ec where you learn how to sew, like nobody was teaching you

nutrition. Right. Even in New York, when I was growing up, I feel like the food there, it was pizza lunches, as you said, bagels for breakfast, like sugar all day. LA is such a like health here. It's so important. It's crazy. Have you found it the difference between Fort Worth and LA astounding? Well, I sometimes feel like I need to go back to Texas to like understand what normal people are doing. And not that people in LA are not normal, but like we just live in a bubble. If you're able to go to Erewhon and see like what oasis that place is. Like my mom came here and we took her to Erewhon and she was like, what is this like health food mecca?

Yeah. She was like, if we had all these options and if they were, you know, more affordable and tasted delicious, if we had those in Texas, like I would buy those too. And so I think I need to go back home and go to my mom's house to be like, okay, this is what, how normal people live because it's the access is so easy here. Yeah. And when you have a brand that's nationwide, you have to remember how people are thinking in Kansas, how they're thinking in Washington, like wherever they may be, especially if you're in retail, like you guys are, you need to be thinking about those things and like how to market to those

people as well. Yeah. And build a product that is not you need to be thinking about those things and like how to market to those people as well. Yeah. And build a product that is not just going to be consumed in LA and New York. Yeah. That is, there are a lot of, I would say, like health and wellness brands that are big brands in maybe like New York, San Francisco, LA.

But like they wouldn't necessarily work in Oklahoma. And you have to be able to create something that people are excited about and like is delicious enough. And you know this, right? To work everywhere or you're not really building a big business. Are you looking for some good, clean positivity? Good. Me neither. I'm Maddie Murphy and I host The Bad Broadcast, a weekly comedy podcast dedicated to talking about everything we love to hate. I searched my whole life to find my passion. Little did I know I had been practicing my true talent every single day, complaining. Join me every Monday wherever you listen to podcasts

and be sure to follow me on Instagram at The Bad Broadcast to answer our weekly questions and for a chance to be featured on the show. See you there. So what was your first job? Like, how did you realize you had this entrepreneurial edge? My first job? Well, my first job was before you were allowed to have jobs. Like when I was like 12, you know, like you're like legally like having jobs. Like I would like tutor my cousins or like I would, you know, do things to make. I always really liked making money. That's like a weird. No, I like that. I like that you're saying maybe it's because I didn't grow up with that much money. So I thought money was like, you know, like I couldn't just like go shopping on a shopping spree at the mall or even like shop at the mall. Like I'd have to

like get like either approval or get the money myself and somehow save up. So I always like had this kind of like obsession with making money. So like, yeah, I would, you know, I would go and tutor kids or I would have these like odd jobs. I sold Girl Scout cookies. I guess that's like the first job that you ever have. Cookies are a theme in your life. Yeah, no, I definitely I was like a top Girl Scout seller. And yeah, it's like the the savageness in me that was like, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do it well. And then my first, I would say, like real job was out of college. And no, I had like, you know, I worked part time in like an SAT prep place and things like that when I was in high school. But my first real job out of college was at Frito-Lay, was at

PepsiCo, which is like the junk food mecca. The junk food mecca. So that was a chip brand, correct? Yeah. So PepsiCo owns Frito-Lay, Pepsi beverages and Quaker and Gatorade. And then I worked at Frito-Lay, which owns like Doritos and Cheetos and Lay's and even like Smartfood, popcorn and Stacy's Pizza, like own almost all of those that you see in the grocery store, all owned by one kind of conglomerate. So that's a vast difference to what you do now. You're so in the health industry. I mean, you make good for you, yummy food. What was it like working for a company that sold like quote unquote junk food? I mean, I had dissonance like every day because I was exploring, like I had a blog before blogs were cool called Skinny Lately.

You did? Yes. It's not live anymore. So don't try to go Google it. Skinny Lately? Yeah. Hold on. Yeah.

I'm going to subscribe. No, it's not live anymore. Nobody go look it up. But it was my best friend, Carrie, and I. And we would literally write about it. And she lived in Chicago and I lived in Texas. And so we would write about like, you know, new health and wellness trends we were doing. Like back when juice cleansing was a thing, we would like try a juice cleanse for a week or we would, you know, try cryotherapy or

we would rate the best Pilates classes in like our little areas in Texas and Chicago. And so I was on that path while I was working at Frito-Lay. And then at the same time, my sales goal was to sell more pounds of potato chips per American than the previous year. So like you naturally have this almost like guilty feeling. I would say a lot of those companies are moving a little bit better for you and they're, you know, trying to acquire better for you brands and get into that space. But there is this kind of like, I don't know, like guilty conscience you have of like, am I doing something that I actually believe in? There's a lot that you learn from it, right? Like you learn that taste is king. People will buy your product if it tastes delicious. And then

sure, like our product tastes delicious and it happens to be vegan, gluten-free and healthy and good for you. But if you try to sell that type of product and it doesn't have the taste there, then no one, no matter what the health benefit is, nobody's going to buy it. And so that was, I would say that was instilled in me during that time. And that's the reason we were able to kind of scale so quickly and, and get this like mass acceptance, if you will, of the product. It's funny you say that because when we started Bloom, I'm definitely the type of person, I'm so health obsessed. I love nutrition. When we first formulated our pre-workouts, I said,

I want it a hundred percent natural. I don't care how it tastes. I will pinch my nose and chug it down. And it took me a month or two to realize after launch that our customers, they were very loyal and they bought it anyway. But I think we realized after that first launch that taste is so important to the customer because if they're trying to get into fitness or they're trying to be more healthy in general, just make it easier for them. Make it taste good. Make it easy to include in your routine. Make it a fun dessert. That's why we've now focused on making the greens taste so good because if it tastes like shit, no one's going to drink it. Yeah, no one's going to drink it. Well, and there's a range, right?

There's like super healthy and like really clean and perfect for you. But I literally can't get this down. And then there's like the really indulgent, like other end of the spectrum. You just have to meet people, I think, where they are and make it. It's still better for you and it's still cleaner and it's still healthier, but it's maybe not like cardboard, right? Or like doesn't taste like absolute crap. And that's where I think it's a balance with brands that are launching. And there's a customer for both ends. Yes. But I think what's really cool, I think we have a similar demographic is there's a customer in the middle who wants to be healthy, but still enjoy their life. Yeah. It's me too. And that's like

where we've landed. And I think that's really cool. And it's great to be able to introduce these like awesome ingredients and get people knowledgeable about nutrition. Yeah. I think. Baby steps. Yeah. Baby steps. I think a lot of women feel stuck or trapped in jobs where they're not fully fulfilled and they don't believe in the mission. And you can still be performing well at your job, but not enjoying it. Yeah. What helped you walk away from that situation? Yeah. It's hard to if you're so achievement oriented, like you're like, I'm going to stick this out. I'm going to get the promotion. I'm going to get the pay raise. And I think women specifically can probably go through the ringer a lot more than I say that because I think my husband would be like, fuck it, I'm not doing this. Whereas like I will stay in something because I'm like, I'm going to make this work. Right. And like,

this is where I'm supposed to be or this accolade is what I need to need to achieve. I think once I got out of those achievement shackles is where I finally said, like, I need to do what's making me happy versus what's getting me the paycheck or getting me the raise or the promotion or, you know, the brand stamp of like having this venture capital firm or this, you know, the brand stamp of like having this venture capital firm or this, you know, brand on my resume. And I still, I mean, I still struggle with that. Like I still hold myself to these crazy achievement goals, you know, every single year. And I still have these like insane, you know, I want to be on Shark Tank. I want to get into Target. I want to get into Whole Foods. It doesn't really go away. You just have to train yourself to make your happiness not

dependent on that. Like, because that's where, I mean, when we first started, I would check Shopify, like that Shopify app every day. And I would be like, okay, like this. And I wouldn't say this out loud, but I think, think and feel to myself, like this number of my sales for the day will reflect what mood I was in. And like, that's not a way to live. Like, that's so depressing. So I think once you can pull that apart a little bit, then you'll start to be happier, I think. We were there too for a while. Like, we would keep the sound on. I mean, you guys were in a dark hole for like, a couple years where you just did the business, right? That's it. No socializing, no fun.

We kept the sound on. Yeah. On sales. So we go, cha-ching, cha-ching, and we would hear it. Oh my God. So I had to turn that off. Oh my God. Well, for people who don't know, Shopify, if you have the app, which is, it runs all of like every single website probably that you've shopped from, Shopify runs it. And there's an app that you can see your sales every day. And when you get a sale, it literally goes cha-ching. Like a Venmo account. Yes. But it's all day. And it's like a like almost like on a Instagram post, you get this like high from it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like a dopamine out of it. Yeah, exactly. And I love what you said about achievement shackles. That

is such a problem, I think, for people with their own brands nowadays, or even if you're an influencer, you're an influencer, the like. It's hard. It's hard. The light, the calm, the, and your life is dependent on like this algorithm, you know, like that's crazy. And, you know, you can, your mood can go from high to low in a matter of like minutes or hours just based on that. I think teasing apart happiness from achievements is so important.

You need to find happiness outside of that, but it's difficult when you are so achievement oriented, as you said. Yeah. How did dough come about once you'd left the chip world? Yeah. So I went from I had a couple of kind of jobs in between. So I had I was at PepsiCo and then I was at a company called Diamond Foods, which is another kind of food food company. And then I was at McKinsey, which is consulting for a couple of years, which is like a very prominent consulting firm. And then I was in venture capital. So I was actually on the investment side where we were investing in startups at M13. So had a couple of, I would say, like lily pad hops from after I was in the food and beverage world. I thought I would never come back. Like I was pretty disheartened after I left food because I didn't

think the world wanted to move where I wanted the world to move, which is, you know, better for you. And I'm not vegan and gluten free, but like I try to eat plant based for the most part. Like it makes me feel better doing things a little bit more wellness oriented. I wanted the world to go that way. I just didn't think these, you know, big companies that kind of make those decisions wanted to go that way. So I concepted dough in the middle of the pandemic. We were on full lockdown in L.A. You probably remember. You were in L.A. at this point. Yes. And you probably had moved around that same time. Right. And so it was full lockdown. I mean, we were on lockdown longer than the rest of the world. And there was this point in time where,

you know, we were doing the like baking the banana bread and sourdough. I was drinking a bottle of wine a night. I was drinking so much. I was like, what am I doing? Why was it okay, though? Why were we all doing that? And then buying puzzles. It was such weird pandemic things. Why do we do all this?

Like a haze. Yeah. And no, I still get triggered. I see something and I'm like, oh, yeah, I bought that during the pandemic. And I concepted this. It originally started as a vitamin supplement idea, which was like a cookie form of a real food vitamin that you could actually eat that was very hard to formulate. And then kind of drawing on my background of junk food and like getting people to eat marginally better and just, you know, going for a walk if you can't run or if you can't like go to the gym,

just do things that, you know, will get you there. It kind of transformed into this concept of healthy indulgences of how do we have our cake and eat it too and, you know, have something that's delicious and better for you, but doesn't, you know, bloat you and doesn't make you feel like shit when you eat it. So you were literally baking up formulas in your own kitchen. Yeah. So there was, I have a friend who's a plant-based baker and she was helping me with it. And I was like, can you make this vegan, gluten-free? I was like all the things, vegan, gluten-free, functional, no preservatives, no refined sugar. It's very hard to do that.

So we went through the whole alphabet and then we did like all these samples, A, B, C, D, E, F, G. And then we went back and we're like A, A, A, B, A, C. And chocolate chip was the first one that we formulated. And that was the hero product. And we had it and I ate it. I could not stop eating it. I ate it every single day. I ate it multiple times a day. And I was like, this is it. And it does. It makes me feel good. Like I felt energized afterwards. That's amazing. I love I love the chocolate chip. I love the OG. Yeah. So it was just you and this baker at this point. Yeah. And yeah and then yeah I was we hired a couple of people as like part-time like they were like students that would help us make the product and we would make the product until like three in the

morning and then I would wake up at seven to fulfill at UPS so I could like oh my god get all the boxes done and like take full you probably have I was gonna say our stories are pretty similar you like take your SUV to UPS yeah UPS guy knows you and you're like they hate you you're like hey it's me again yeah and then no and then I remember the last time because we switched to a co-packer and the last time my last drop off ever it was like a couple of boxes because it was for like press and we had fully had a had a plant by then so like we had a co-packer that was making our product and so I only dropped off a few boxes and he kind of looked at me and he was like is and we had fully had a plant by then. So like we had a co-packer that was making our product. And so I only dropped off a few boxes and he kind of looked at me and he was like,

is business going okay? And I was like, oh yeah. Like we just, I was like, he probably thinks like this shut down. It was like a pandemic thing and it shut down. He was like, oh my God. Delivering to him. But a lot of entrepreneurs, you learn that way.

I think it's like the grit that you need to do at the beginning. It's like, hell, I probably not want to do it again. But it like drives you. And I also feel like you get to learn each position in your company. Yeah. Like, I don't know about you, but I was doing customer service. Oh, my God.

Photography for the website. The hardest customer service is the hardest part because you take it personally. When you own the brand and someone's saying, hey, I don't like it. Yeah. Or like, yeah, this came messed up. Like, people are pretty mean, actually. Like, they'll like curse at you in email. And you're like, oh, my God't like it. Yeah. Or like, or like, yeah, this came messed up. Like people are pretty mean, actually. Like they'll like curse at you an email and you're like, oh, my God, I would never do. I would never say that to someone on the other side. Like, why are you so mean to me? Brutal. And then you have to hire someone because that was that was like one of the

first things where I was like, this is bad for my mental health. Yeah, that was I think the first hire we ever made was customer service. So if you tips for someone listening who would want to start a business, would you say that's the first hire? I would say in this day and age, maybe someone who can do social and like design and CX like CX, you know, a lot of people can learn that skill. It's not like it's not trainable. It's like someone that can probably be like a ninja and do a little bit of everything. Like Cameron was our first hire and she's everyone tells us our social crushes it right like she's so witty she's excellent at it and it's not like she studied it in school or anything like that she and I collab really well together and like mind meld and you know she was doing a little

bit of everything at the beginning and she still kind of does like there are things where I'm like Cameron can you do this and she like will learn the skill so I think someone who's still kind of does. Like there are things where I'm like, Cameron, can you do this? And she like will learn the skill. So I think someone who's like kind of a ninja that can do, because you have to do all of it. Like you have to do, figure out how to work QuickBooks, like some of the non-sexy stuff, you know, influencer outreach, all that stuff. So someone that's like can do a little bit of everything I think is important.

Would you say social media, like could you have launched Doe without social media? No, not at all. And it's not in the way that you launched Bloom. That's the thing. It's like there are brands that are influencer founded, right? We're like social, so integral to the brand. For us, we start from zero.

Like we started creating, I don't know if I'm following right. Like we started creating content that was just really engaging and entertaining for people. I stand by this. I think social and influencers like made our business. Yeah. And that's the reason we have this kind of cult following and have this virality and people people discover us. And it's it's hard because now with social, there's so much noise out there that you have to compete. And like, you know, there are so many brands out there and there's so many people who are trying to get viral TikToks. But that is,

I would say, the number one thing is like creating that content and showing the behind the scenes of it that people really love of, you know, like people really love the how I fucked this up on TikTok, right? Or like how I lost this. Like people love those kinds of stories. So I think sharing and, you know, learning, almost like learning from influencers, but doing it as a brand is really important.

Becoming the influencer and speaking from a brand point of view. I also feel like your packaging and your branding in general but doing it as a brand is really important. Becoming the influencer and speaking from a brand point of view. I also feel like your packaging and your branding in general just captures my attention. Yeah. When you guys first launched, I think I saw you in Erewhon first. And I became obsessed. That's why Greg ran up to me because I was like, please go and find her because I was obsessed.

And the packaging just grabs my eye. And also, how many retailers are you in now? We are in almost a thousand retailers or a doors. So we're in but retailers, we're in Target, Whole Foods. We're doing a little Walmart test, which is exciting in Texas. We're in the Fresh Market, Hy-Vee, and then we launch in Sprouts in December. But that's incredible because you're putting healthy dessert options in places where they don't have a ton, which I think is incredible. And people are surprised by it,

but I'm like, why? Why doesn't a Walmart consumer deserve to have a better for you option? And I also think if social media and influencers are impacting the way we buy so heavily, they want options like this too because they're seeing this online and they don't have ways of buying it in store. And now they do. And I think that's incredible.

Yeah. And as you were saying before, in Fort Worth, you didn't have a ton of options. Now they have this. I think that's awesome. I know. That's what's amazing is like when someone emails us, our customer service gal like shares a lot too of all like the positive, sometimes the negative, but she will share like, like you know this person in like Iowa was like so happy to have a better for you option and they'll like send a really sweet note and I'm like it like brings me to tears like that's so nice that makes it worth it yeah so Shark Tank oh god is every every entrepreneur's dream yeah it's kind of like I don't know why it's horrifying. I'm just kidding. It's fine. It is though. Everyone dreams of being on Shark Tank. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How did you get on there, first of all? Yeah, I mean, we launched in October of 2020, and they reached out to us in January of 2021. And they just sent us a cold email to where it like literally hello at ito.com. And they were just like, hey, I'm a producer on Shark Tank. And they sent us an email. And I was like, this is fake. I thought someone was like pranking me. I was like, no way. Screenshot it. Sent it to like my mom and my friends. And I was like, no way this is real. And that's only the beginning, by the way. It takes, there is like a huge lengthy process. But the one email is pretty validating when you do get that. That's cool. And it's cool they reached out to you. Yes. Yeah. Because I never, I also didn't have time. I was making the product until three in

the morning. I didn't have time to like go apply to Shark Tank because it's such a process. Yeah. But yeah, any any entrepreneur that I think gets that email is like, oh, yeah, I'm going to take this. And it's a little bit more of a traditional approach, because if you're doing the social media, Shark Tank's kind of like, I don't know, it's an interesting. Yes. It's like, yeah, it's national TV versus social. So it did give us a lot of exposure to and a lot of like my friend Melanie, who runs this company called Gia, just went on Shark Tank this past week. Oh, I know that brand. Yeah, it's great. And it's like an alcohol alternative. But she is very similar to us, like has a big DTC presence

and very like on e-commerce and social media. And so for her, when I was chatting with her and kind of helping her through the process, it was also how do I get exposure to this other world and this consumer that wouldn't have heard about us if it wasn't for the show. So in your own words, can you explain what happened on the show? Because I know it caused a little bit of like controversy. A little ripple. Yeah, a little ripple, a little spice. Yeah, I know. Well, it's funny because I've had to come to terms with like my biggest pet peeve is when things are lukewarm. I love when either something is so polarizing and either you're like hot or you're cold. When you're lukewarm, I'm like, oh, what a snooze. I'm so bored with you. And that's what happened to me, right? Like I was polarizing. Either people loved me or they hated me. But when I was on the show, so I got an offer. I got an

offer from, so spoiler alert, I got an offer from Robert and I went back and negotiated with him. And, you know, I essentially said like, will you meet me here? He said, no, this is my final offer. And then I replied and gave him what he wanted, but in a different way. So I was like, to get into the mechanics, like 10 points of equity with the investment and then five points that would be just to you, right? Like advisor shares. So it would make him whole.

And then he came back and said, no, nevermind, I'm taking away the deal. So he reneged the deal. And I was, you can kind of see my face on TV. It's like, whoa, what? Like, wait, what just happened? I just gave you what you wanted. And so there was a couple of things about that situation that happened. But then

the other thing that happened was I was wearing a hot pink suit, which I loved. It was it's so cute. It was a statement. It's yeah, it's a it's a hot pink blazer. It looks like the Valentino hot pink. If people anyone has seen that. Well, it was kind of the hot pink that you're wearing right now. Exactly. It's his exact color. Yeah. So and shorts. They weren't like short shorts or anything. They were like very professional.

I mean, the brand is Sync Accept. Like it was like very professional shorts and heels, white heels. And there's two things that I heard after the show, which don't ever Google yourself on Reddit or whatever. Go on Reddit because that's like the worst thing you could do. You've never? No, I've never Googled myself. That's good.

Don't. It's bad for your mental health. I was, I don't anymore. Like I was an idiot. And you know, that next morning on Saturday morning, I immediately go to Reddit. I'm like still half asleep with like one eye open. And I like immediately go on Reddit to see what people are saying. Cause I wanted to see, I hadn't, it's kind of crazy to be a normal person and then be on national television. It's not normal to have that many people giving you feedback on your business or your personality or what you're wearing or how you acted or, you know, any of that stuff, especially if you're not used to it. Like you have a platform, right? So like people probably criticize you and like give you compliments all

day. You get both. But like I'd never dealt with that. Like I'd never gotten that much feedback in my life, which I don't think any human should get that much feedback. It's not it's not normal. We're not made for it. No. And so, you know, the couple of things that happened were a few people saying actually a lot of people saying like she shouldn't have negotiated, like she should sit down and know her place, which was kind of interesting to me because I'm like, first of all, we need to teach our young girls that they should negotiate. This is a family show. And if there are not women negotiating on the show, then they're not good businesswomen. Like they should be negotiating. So that was one thing I heard a lot of. And then and there are people that came to my defense as well, which was really nice of people

being like, why wouldn't she negotiate? Like that's what the whole show is if you're going to be a good entrepreneur. And then the second thing was she shouldn't have worn that outfit. There was a headline that said and I had them take it down. My PR team emailed them and they were like, you need to take this article down. It's super misogynistic. And the headline was woman in hot pink suit and kitten heels pitches to Mark Cuban. I was like, you would have never said that about a male entrepreneur on the show. I don't even think there would have been a controversy about your negotiation if it was a man. Absolutely not. Like, no way. And so that was, you know, and there are a lot of people like saying things about that on YouTube comments and Reddit comments. And then there were a lot of

women, a lot of women, especially on TikTok after I posted about it, where and like, this is where I love TikTok too, is like, if you find your people, you like really find your people. And a lot of people on TikTok that were commenting saying like, you look amazing, sweetie, right? Like this is you look great. Like this is so Elle Woods of you. Like, yeah, it matches your brand. Why wouldn't you wear that? Like, where'd you get that outfit from? And so you see you have to kind of like drown out that negative noise and kind of like go with your people. Yeah. But again, like I said, nobody wants to be lukewarm. So hot or cold, at least I found my people. I felt like you represented yourself and your brand so well. I don't think I could have had the confidence to negotiate back. And it was really inspiring, actually, to go and watch that

episode after meeting you, because I'd never seen it. And I went and watched it after I met you. And it's exactly who you are in person as well. Like you are super confident and you say what you think. And I love that about you. And I loved the suit. The suit was, I mean, it made the moment very interesting. Do you think that he didn't give you the deal? Because he was like, his ego was hurt. So that's what people, there was noise that people said that. I don't, I don't know.

I also think like they're trying to make a good TV show. Yeah. Like what an amazing episode they got. I'm sure that was one of the highest rated episodes of the season because of the controversy. So they're trying to make good television and like that kind of stuff makes good television. So I don't know. And I have I mean, I have nothing but love for Robert because he said one of the nicest things that anyone has ever said to me about like me being a great entrepreneur. And so I like respect him fully in that sense. But I don't know. You can't help but

wonder if it would be different if I had a male co-founder up there with me or if I was a man. Right. And like I talked to my husband a lot about that because he's pretty objective about that kind of stuff. And, you know, he's pretty adamant of, you know, would have been differently if you were a dude. I think so. I think so. Do you have tips on confidence in the workplace? Because I think a lot of women struggle with this. Yeah. I think we're raised to please everyone around us and kind of stay quiet and be seen but not heard. Where do you find that confidence? Yeah. I used to be super shy as a kid. So I'm like, mine is so faked. Yeah. It's like really, really fake. Yeah. It's because like as a kid, I was so shy. I was never like the loud one in class. Like I was pretty studious and I was just like,

I don't know. I had a lot of friends who were like the, you know, people and like they were loud and engaging and I wasn't. And I was very like once you got to know me, I was. But a lot of it came from like age, which is kind of crazy to say. Like as I got older, I became a little bit more confident. And then I think a lot of it also came from the fake it till you make it thing is actually true. Like I would go into a meeting like almost I'm not comparing myself to Beyonce at all. But like, you know, she has Sasha Fierce. She has a different personality. It's almost like that's what I'll do. Even a pitch like I talked to an investor this morning. I actually had a really hard morning this morning,

right? Like a really bad mental health morning. My first call was with an investor. And I literally was just like, we're doing this. And I turned it on. And then I felt immediately better afterwards. So it's a little bit of faking it and pretending like you are who you want to be. I don't know if you feel that way, but you have to or else you're I just don't think anyone is ever like born with that type of confidence. I think there's so much in that. I think every day I try to show up as the best version of me, the person that I want to be, because I don't necessarily want to be on camera every day. I'm not like in the smiliest mood. Yeah, I don't feel like speaking. But I do know

that it's like a superpower I have that I can be this character when I want to be. And I think there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. Like I think if you have to become someone else for 30 minutes so that you can get through a call and have that confidence and it's okay. And the more you do it, the more you become more confident. Yeah.

Yeah. The more it becomes a part of who you actually are. Yeah. You have gotten your product in the hands of some celebrities, influencers, models. How did that happen? Yeah. Was it organic?

Yeah. If you had told me like when we first launched that this many, this number and like these types of people would be consuming the product, I would have been like, absolutely not. You're like. Like Karlie Kloss. Yeah. I would have been like, no, you're lying.

Like there's no way. But like it's almost like piece by piece and brick by brick, right? Like there are some, and it's funny because there are people always say when you first launch a brand, like start with the micro influencers or start with smaller followers because they might respond to you or they might see your message. But it's actually kind of crazy. We would reach out from the Doe account to people with a million followers. I mean, like Leandra Cohen, who had Man Repeller, she was one of the first ones that we reached out to that was a big influencer just like a couple months after we launched. She had a million followers at the time.

And she was so gracious. And she replied right away. And I was like, holy shit, like Leandra. I was like freaking out. Leandra Cohen is like responding to our random DM. And I knew she was a foodie. Like she's obviously in fashion and in high fashion, but I knew she had like this food element to her. And she was just so kind. And I think it's because she's built a business before

and knows how hard it is that early on. And we did get responses. So it was, some people, it took a couple of times to reach out to. And then some people, you know, replied right away. And some people we haven't, still hasn't tried our product that we want to try our product. But once you start like inch by inch getting those yeses, because I always take no's as like a suggestion. Like I'm like, it's not no, it's just maybe later or like I'm asking the wrong person and I have to find someone who will say yes. So like I tend to like take and it's a little bit of a fault of mine, too, because anytime like even my team, when they'll come back and like, oh, they said no, I'll be like, that's not a no. Like, we'll figure that out.

So anytime someone says no, it's like, OK, try again later or go through someone else. So a lot of if I want to be tactical of how people can do it, if they do have brands of their own or if they're trying to get someone on their podcast or they're trying to reach out to someone, you'd be surprised that people respond to messages. I feel like you are really good about that, like responding to messages, people respond to LinkedIn's, people respond to cold emails. You can go, and this is my little secret, you can go on their Instagram profile and there's a little like, there's follow message email. And a lot of their emails are their personal emails because that's what they signed up for Instagram. We used to do that a lot. Yeah. And like you don't, now a lot of times like it'll be their agent or something like that or manager assistant. Everyone has agents now. They're too cool for us. Everyone has agents. But yeah,

there's like little hacks like that of just like these little building blocks. Who would be your dream celebrity to have them try dough? Oh, my God. OK, I know this is silly because I'm sure everyone says this, but Kim Kardashian is newly vegan or like flexitarian, whatever. And that family loves indulgent products. I bet you they eat it already. Like her and Khloe, her, Khloe and Kourtney, I guess like for different reasons. Khloe because she's had her health journey

and like she's really learned how to like have her cake and eat it too. And I think that's really admirable. Kourtney because she's always been into this like woo-woo wellness type stuff. But she also still like, like she loves candy. Like Lemmy is super candy vibes. Like she likes sugar. And then Kim, just because of the vegan thing. And then as well, I just, again, like, I think they grew up, like I grew up on these kinds of like indulgent junk foods. So I think they would love it. I think so too. I bet you they already eat it. We just don't know. At Erewhon. I bet you. Oh, whenever I see it on people's Instagram that I know we haven't gifted to,

it's usually from Erewhon. They've found it there. I bet you they're eating it as we speak. Let's talk about boundaries. You and I have spoken about as founders how we have zero boundaries. None. It's 24-7, especially at the beginning. Yeah. How do you handle that? Has it gotten better over time? Like, do you have any things, any tools you use to keep your own sanity? Yeah, it's gotten better over time, I will say. But it's kind of hard because when people start businesses, like I get a lot of women that like reach out to me to ask for advice. And I have to tell them, like, you

have to brace yourself for insanity the first year or two. And I don't know if there's a way to work eight hours a day and to be able to launch a business. I don't think there is. But like and maybe that's just me. But I, you know, the first year and a half, I was 24-7 always on email, would like wake up in the middle of the night and like look at my phone to see what was happening. It would disrupt dinners. My husband, you know, was helping me with it. And we would work until midnight and then, you know, fall asleep on our laptops. And it was not, it sounds really negative. It was not healthy, but it also was like the most exhilarating time as well, because you're like you're putting your all into something.

And it is truly like you see the fruits of your labor. So I didn't have boundaries to answer your question initially. And, you know, now I'm a little bit better about it. You know, we we stop to cook dinner and eat dinner together. Like I try not to be on my laptop until I fall asleep. I try not to work at all on Saturday and have kind of these full, robust weekends. But there are situations where we have a fire jolt, right? And like a truck of cookie dough is missing.

And I'm like, where is the target truck? Like they're like expecting their product. We don't know where the truck is. You know, like things like that happen. And you're like, you have to be able to manage that. And that's what you sign up for, especially when you own most of your business. So I don't, yeah, I don't know. Have yours gotten better, right?

A little bit. Yeah, but I feel like you can't implement the boundaries until you've done the hard work. As you just said, there's no way around it. Like you need to be talking to your employees constantly because you also don't know what you're doing. Like you kind of need to be watching it 24-7 because you're still figuring it out yourself. It's the first time you've done it, obviously. And watching it constantly because you feel like it's going to go away yeah that was our mentality we felt like one day something bad's gonna happen something bad's gonna happen it's

gonna disappear we're gonna wake up and it's all gonna be gone but I feel like nothing's worth having unless you just work your ass off work your ass off yeah I know I don't want to be like Kim K with her like you know yeah like not K with her, like, you need to get up and work. Yeah, like, not that. No, but, like, truly, like, you have to work really, really. This is, I tell everyone, that's, like, 99.99% of people are not made for this. Like, it is, I don't even know if I'm made for it. Like, it is really, really, really fucking hard. Like, it is hard.

I'm glad I did it when I did. Yeah. Because I don't think I could do it now. Yeah, I don't either. And now I'm at the point where I'm like, let me soak this in and really enjoy it and appreciate it for what's happening. Because you're in survival mode at the point where I'm like, let me soak this in and really enjoy it and appreciate it for what's happening because you're in survival mode at the beginning. Yeah.

Okay. Let's talk bloom times dough. Yeah. We've been working on this collab for a while now. I have to say, I think this is my favorite that I've tried so far. I can't stop eating it. I have the samples in my fridge and I go pick at it like a few times a day. It's so fucking good. It's so good. The texture is there. The flavor is there. It's gorgeous. Can you tell us what

the audience can expect? Yes. So, you know, we've been thinking about, we've been thinking about this collab for a little bit because we organically kind of connected and we were like, we should do something together. But we, I think originally too, we were like, oh, let's just do like a giveaway or something, right? Like we didn't think it was going to be a product. And then actually, our product developer has a lot of heart for matcha specifically. And so she just loves matcha personally. And I do think matcha is like having a moment. It's much more mainstream.

People are understanding what it is. A lot of women are choosing it over a coffee know, a coffee because you don't get as anxious or hopped up front. Like my afternoons, I'll do matcha. I do matcha or greens because I don't I like truly don't want that jolt from coffee and I get too anxious and then I can't sleep. So I think matcha is having a moment. So we had kind of always toyed with the idea, but we wanted it to be perfect.

And it takes a lot of development for something like that to be perfect because it's such a strong flavor. But this product, it has all of, I would say that the elements of our core, which are, you know, vegan, gluten-free, clean. So like no preservatives, it's, you know, animal by-product free, no refined sugars, doesn't make you bloat, doesn't make you crash. But the flavor is a matcha white chocolate chip. And it's actually unique in that it has two mix-ins. So people really love our products because you can kind of like, this is weird to say, but you can like dig for the chocolate chips. So like you eat the dough obviously when you eat it raw, but you, it's similar to ice cream. Like if you have a Ben & Jerry's, people like dig for the mix-ins, which are usually sprinkles or chocolate chips. So in this matcha cookie dough, we put white chocolate chips, but then we also took the coconut flavor of the greens,

of the bloom greens. So we were inspired by that and put coconut flakes inside. So you get this interesting mouthfeel and texture that's so yummy and you cannot stop eating it of white chocolate chips and coconut flakes. And they have such different textures. Like they taste so good. It's my dream dessert because I love white chocolate. I love coconut. I love matcha. Altogether, it's insane. Me and Fi cannot stop eating it. We're obsessed. Obviously, it's beautiful and green. Yes. Very bloom vibes. Benefits are like amazing. Matcha is incredible for you. It has so many antioxidants. We're using Mari's Matcha. I know you guys love Mari's Matcha. It's 100% ceremonial grade and certified organic. So this is going to be a really good for you cookie dough, but it tastes so good and you can bake it into little green cookies, which is going to be so cute. It's so cute. I'm so excited. I'm so

excited about the launch. And it's when people are making, are trying to make better decisions, right? Like we are all going to have our, you know, Thanksgiving and holiday where, you know, we indulge and have red wine and we're cozy and, you know, we're wearing big sweaters. And then come January, as much as I hate the like new year, new me, I don't love that, but I do like setting intentions in January. And I think, you know, it comes out at a time where people will be trying to eat a little bit better and trying to kind of just do good for their body. I just love this collab too because I think my community is obsessed with you guys and it's just like a great bridge.

And I love you. I think you have been such a great friend to me because I haven't found a ton of female entrepreneurs in LA who are willing to talk about this stuff. And a lot of it's kind of like a little bit secret. And I felt like when I met with you, you were down to talk it out and give me advice. And I know you're always there. So that's been amazing. Well, and I feel like a lot of people get caught up in the like, everything's amazing, you know, and posting about

that. And it's like, no, actually, it sucks a lot of times. Yeah. You know, like you have to. And I think you do a good job, too, on your personal of being like, I had a really hard day today. You know, like this really went wrong or like, you know, this is not ideal. And I'm sure you don't talk about all of it, right? But like, I think taking people along in the journey of like, it's not just unique to entrepreneurship. It's like any job you have, you have your highs and lows and it's not perfect.

And you do get emotional and you do have mental health struggles. So like being open about that with someone else is really helpful. It's really helpful. And I appreciate you sharing so much about your story. Now it's time for the questions that I ask every single guest. I started this podcast because I believe everyone's pursuit of wellness looks different. What is the latest wellness trend that you're into? Oh, my gosh. I mean, you got me into formal

Pilates. Okay. Oh, yeah. You do like it. I love it. I mean, I am a Pilates girly. Like, I'm Pilates certified. And like, I love. You are? Yeah. What? Did I not tell you this? No.

Yeah, I'm Pilates certified. So I did it when I was super young. When I was like early, like 21. But I mean, I just love that style of movement too. Because it is so painful. We were joking that Greg and Kabir, my husband, should do a class with us because they would die. They would die. They wouldn't be able to do it. They would pass away. So I, formal Pilates is like, I know it's a trend and it's like cool on Instagram, but it's actually a really, really good workout. Those instructors

are really, really talented. They're great. And the core work you get in those classes. You have a six pack afterwards. You have a six. We left and we were like, excuse us. Should we take a photo pack afterwards. You have a six. We left and we were like, excuse us. Should we take a photo? We should take a photo immediately. What does wellness mean to you? Wellness to me is, and it kind of goes back to my roots, is just doing a little bit better than yesterday.

And, you know, I mean, I love like a good pizza and wine night, you know? So like having a little bit of that balance, but also, you know, yesterday I had pizza and wine. So today I? So like having a little bit of that balance, but also, you know, yesterday I had pizza and wine. So today I'm going to move a little more like, and it doesn't have to be crazy and like restrictive. And I think we do post on this all the time on, on our dough social of like, stop with diet culture, stop with calorie counting, like stop with that kind of stuff and trying to shove like diets down women's throats. But it's more about like feeling good, both, you know, mentally and physically. And then

if you do have a hard day or you do kind of indulge, then like, you know, just making a little bit better decisions the next day. Like it's, I think it's all like little baby steps. I love that you guys focus on ingredients and not just calories. I mean, it's to me, that's all that matters. I would, I don't care how many calories I eat a day. I care what I put in my body. Yeah. Where can people find Doe online or in store? So on social media, we're at eatdodeux and then eatdodeux.com. And then in stores, I guess by the time this comes out, we'll be in Whole Foods, Target, Fresh Market, Hy-Vee.

We'll have a full national launch into Sprouts, which is exciting. And then we'll be in select Walmart stores with our little minis, our little snack size product. But that will be in Texas and Louisiana. So I say go to our store locator because we're in different stores except Sprouts will be national. Congratulations. And guys, go look out for the Bloom Times Dough collab. We are so excited. Go get your hands on it. It's so good. Bye. Bye. Thank you for listening to today's episode. Go comment on my last Instagram at Mari Llewellyn with the guest you want to see next. I'll be picking one person from the comments to send our bloom greens to.

Make sure you hit follow so you never miss my weekly episodes. If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to share and leave a review. See you next week.