Pursuit of Wellness - Max Lugavere on Brain Health, Effects Of Sugar & Chemicals, Preventing Alzheimer's & The Food Pyramid

Episode Date: July 8, 2024

Ep. # 113 On today’s episode of Pursuit of Wellness, my most visited guest Max Lugavere is back for his third episode! Today he is filling us in on his recent documentary Little Empty Boxes inspired by his mother’s diagnosis. We really get deep into the subject of dementia and Alzheimers and talk about contributing factors, prevention, and even how diet plays a role. Getting even more personal, Max shares more about his upbringing in New York and how both his and his mother’s diet and lifestyles have changed over the course of the last decade. Today’s episode is great for anyone who has a loved one with dementia, or for anyone looking to maintain brain health! Leave Me a Message - click here! For Mari’s Instagram click here! For Pursuit of Wellness Podcast’s Instagram click here! For Mari’s Newsletter click here! Watch Little Empty Boxes click here! For Max’s Instagram click here! For Max’s Podcast click here! For POW Brand Promo Codes click here! Sponsored By:  Stop wasting money on things you don’t use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney.com/POW For a limited time, get 15% off plus a free Starter Kit and bottle of Propolis throat spray when you shop my link Piquelife.com/pow Get 20% off your first order of Maui Nui at www.mauinuivenison.com/pow “Cozy Earth provided an exclusive offer for my listener’s today. Up to 40% off site wide when you use the code “PURSUIT” Show Links: Little Empty Boxes Air Doctor: Use Code POW for a discount Astaxanthin  EP. 24 - Dr. Daniel Amen On How To Fix Your Brain & Reverse The Effects Of Caffeine, Sugar, Alcohol and Fame EP. 84 - Dr. Amen Pt. 2: ADHD, Borderline Personality Disorder, Raising Mentally Tough Kids & How To Fight Negative Thinking Topics Discussed 03:13 - Max’s documentary “Little Empty Boxes” 05:26 - Dementia and being scared of dying young 07:52- Parkinsons and Dementia  10:38 - Story behind the title 14:54 - Experts and overconsumption of sugar 19:53 - Late stage Azheimers and prevention 22:13 - Diet mindset 25:51 - Things to do now to prevent brain health later 31:41 - Air pollution and environmental toxins 34:59 - Air purifiers in the home 36:33 - Brain injuries and dementia 38:48 - Supplements for brain health 41:02 - Copper River Salmon 43:57 - “It’s natural to age” 45:09 - Dementia prevention doctor and brain scans 48:50 - Average age of Dementia 50:30 - Caregiver’s Disease 53:41 - Finding purpose in the pain 58:01 - Max’s original diet

We know that the brain relies on good metabolic health. We know that the brain thrives in a low inflammation environment. But unfortunately, today, so many of us are ill, that it wouldn't surprise me if that's having a downstream consequence on our collective brain health. This is the Pursuit of Wellness podcast, and I'm your host, Mari Llewellyn. What is up, guys? Welcome back to the Pursuit of Wellness podcast. Today,

we have Max Lugavere on the show for the third time. If you haven't heard his other two episodes, he is incredible. He is a health and science journalist, filmmaker, and bestselling author. He is the author of the Genius Trilogy of Books, including the New York Times bestseller, Genius Foods. He is so knowledgeable with all things nutrition. But more importantly, he is releasing his brand new film, Little Empty Boxes, which I watched. And I have to tell you guys, I need you to all go download this film right now. It is available on the website. I will link it in the description box. This was such a moving documentary. It's all about his experience with his mother's dementia. This film really captures a very candid, transparent view

on what it's like to be a caregiver for someone that has dementia. We get to see his mother, you know know young and vibrant when he's a baby to kind of her losing her cognitive function um in her late 50s it was very moving it was very emotional and i think such an important film for those of us who want to prevent dementia want to know what to look out for with our own parents there's things we can be doing right now in our younger years to prevent brain health decline. And I really just feel like this was such a candid and transparent perspective on what it's really like to experience this condition.

I really respect and admire Max when it comes to this film. I think he put his heart and soul into it. And you can tell this was really, you know, one of, if not the hardest thing he's ever been through. And he really took this pain and turned it into his purpose. I mean, now we can see he has a very fruitful career in health and wellness. And I think it's largely because of this experience he went through with his mom. I really think you guys should check this film out. And we learn a lot today in this episode with Max. All about nutrition.

Things we can be doing now to prevent dementia. Things we should be avoiding. Things to look for. And it was just a really great conversation. It was so nice to have him here in Austin. And without further ado, let's chat with Max. Max, welcome back to the show. What up? Hi, Mari. What up? What's going on? You're Max. Max, welcome back to the show.

What up? Hi, Mari. What up? What's going on? You're here in Austin. So excited to be here. Haven't seen you in like, what, six months? Six months or so.

Probably more than that, actually. Yeah. Because the last time I was on your show, I was... With Crosby. Yes, I was with Crosby. You know, this is your third time on The Pursuit of Wellness. I feel so blessed and honored. That's a record. Am I the only person to have been on three times?

Yes. Oh my God. Yes. Wow. We just love you. Aw. It's mutual. It's 100% reciprocated.

Thank you. I think you're so awesome. You are finally releasing your documentary, Little Empty Boxes, on June 27th in two days when we're recording this. How does that feel? Incredibly cathartic. I'm super excited, nervous about how it's going to be perceived because I've been working on this project for a decade of my life. And I'm much different in the film than I think most people who know me know me.

Mm-hmm. than I think most people who know me know me. I'm in no way any sort of health expert in the film. I'm not a journalist in the film per se. The film is about dementia and it follows my why, which is my mom and the condition that she developed. And it's a really raw and intimate look at what it's like to have dementia, both from the patient and family side. And in the film, I show up as myself, my mother's son, a scared son. And it's not always pretty, but it's a film that I felt needed to be made. And

I think it's the most important thing I've ever done. I watched it and it was a very candid view on dementia. And I know specifically Lewy body dementia. And it was really interesting to watch the progression of your mom from start to finish and also seeing the clips of your childhood and how bright and vibrant she was during your childhood. And she still had vibrant moments with you throughout the movie, but also some really deep, dark, sad moments that were really hard to watch. And I'm sure really, really hard to experience. So I think you putting this out is really brave

and really educational for people like me who, you know, I can hear all the information about dementia, but to see it really was eye-opening for me. I really recommend anyone listening to watch it too, because I think it really, yeah, it just gives some context as to what we're talking about here and why it's so important to talk about prevention and what we can do. There were some moments and scenes that really stood out to me where she said, I can't even read a book. And she said, I'm afraid of dying young. I feel like she said that a few times.

She was like, I'm afraid to die. I feel like I'm going to die. What was that like to hear her say that? Heartbreaking, gutting. I mean, I'm not a clinician. So, you know, my mom was the first experience I've ever had with dementia. And what I've learned over time, and especially since touring this film around the country and meeting people who've had dementia in their family, there are forms of dementia where the patient doesn't really seem to be all that aware of what it is that they're experiencing. It's the family members around the patient, the person that

notice. And they're the ones, you know, perhaps to bring them to the neurologist's office, right? But in my mom's case, my mom was at every moment, every step of the way, acutely aware of what she was experiencing and the suffering and the trauma and the decline in real time that she was experiencing unfold in herself. And

those statements like, I think I'm going to die. I mean, that made the experience... I mean, dementia is already really hard. It's a caregiver's condition. I mean, it's hard for the patient, but it's very hard for the family members. And it made it exponentially more difficult knowing how much my mom was suffering through it. And yeah, I mean, it was without question the most difficult thing I've ever experienced. And it's the reason why I've dedicated my life to understanding why.

Yeah. It was pretty interesting to see there'd be a scene where maybe you guys were at the park or out on the streets of New York and she was laughing and there with you and present. And then I feel like the next scene, all of a sudden it was gone and she'd be confused. She didn't know what month it was when the doctor asked her. That was kind of eye-opening to me. And yeah, it did seem like she was very aware of what was going on and so amazing that you were by her side the whole time. I feel like that made a big difference, I'm sure. At the beginning of the film, I think you guys were mentioning Parkinson's.

Was that a misdiagnosis or was that like, is that what is the onset of dementia, if that makes sense? Yeah, that's a good question. So for usually Parkinson's disease, Parkinson's disease is a movement disorder. And so Parkinson's, for many Parkinson's patients, will ultimately down the road cause dementia called Parkinson's disease dementia. But it's not thought of as a cognitive disorder in the sense that most people for most of the time generally will just experience the condition as a set of movement symptoms, rigidity, balance problems, tremor, and the like. In my mom's case, she had a condition called Lewy body dementia, which at the onset of Lewy body dementia, you present with typically both the movement symptoms associated with Parkinson's disease,

albeit a little bit differently, as well as cognitive dysfunction, which is what my mom had developed. Okay. And Lewy body dementia has more in common actually with Parkinson's disease than with Alzheimer's disease, which is the most common form of dementia. Got it. But they're all essentially variants of the same, you know, the same type of condition, which is a neurodegenerative condition. Did she ever reach a point where she didn't recognize you? Because it felt like she recognized you the whole time, right?

Yeah, so that's another area where there's differences between dementia types. So with my mom, she never didn't recognize who I was. With dementia, once you've seen one case of dementia, you've seen one case of dementia. So they're all different. But my mom, yeah, she never didn't recognize who I was. I've likened her condition to being like when you have a browser window open, there's too many tabs that you're running at the same time and everything starts to stutter. Yeah. That's, to me, the best way to describe my mom's condition.

It's just that everything essentially downshifted and became a lot more constrained. And articulating thoughts became really difficult. There are moments in the film where she's trying to express an idea and what comes out is essentially gibberish and it's really hard. I mean, it's the most difficult thing to experience because, I mean, of course, my mom was the most important person in my life and I'll love her until the end of time. But she also was a really brilliant woman. And so charismatic and funny and had a lot to say at any given time. And so,

you know, seeing her become so constrained was really hard. Is that where the title of the film came from? Because at one point she said the boxes are empty and you're like, what do you mean the boxes are empty? Yeah. That was her way of articulating like what was going on in her inner world. And my mom passed at the end of 2018. And as we were cutting the film about two years ago or a year ago, actually, is when we landed on the final cut. That scene really stood out to us and specifically that phrase. And we thought it would be really beautiful in a way to let my mom name the film. And so that's where Little Empty Boxes came from. I have told you guys this on the podcast, but I am someone who really struggles with like

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Yeah. Yeah, I love that you teased that out. Yeah, is that okay? Yeah, yeah, no, I love that. No, I thought that that was actually like a pretty great way of her expressing what was happening in her mind. And I think it's a fantastic title for the film and really brings it full circle for her as well and kind of gives it a whole purpose and meaning behind it. I also loved the fact that you kind of thread experts speaking about dementia throughout the movie. And there was a lot of really great takeaways from different experts. What's the name of the guy who talks about plant lectins?

Oh, Stephen Gundry. Stephen Gundry, saw him in there. I loved the way he explained the overconsumption of sugar because he was basically saying, our ancestors would have eaten fruit during the summer anticipating that there would be no more fruit until the next year. But now we have fruit or sugar 365 days a year. What was your biggest takeaway during that time speaking with those experts about dementia? Yeah. Well, I think first off, it's...

So here's something really interesting about Dr. Gundry, who's in the film. He's become known, I think, over the past couple of years for his stance on lectins, which is controversial, to say the least, and other work that he's done, business initiatives and things like that. But in the film, what he presents has nothing to do with lectins or the more controversial aspects of his advocacy. It's really about the overconsumption of added sugar and the ubiquity of refined flour. And the fact that, as you mentioned, I mean, we're now overconsuming, whether it's refined flour or commercial cereals and grain products or added sugar every single day, 365 days a year. But at the time, the reason why,

the reason, so we've done all, we did all of the interviews in the film at least seven years ago at this point. And back then, this was before any of Dr. Gundry's major books had come out. He was actually very well known because he's a cardiothoracic surgeon. And he was really well known within the APOE4 community, which is the community of people who carry the APOE4 genotype, which is the most well-defined Alzheimer's risk gene. And so he was one of the few people talking about, at the time, the role of or the interaction between nutrition and these certain, you know, Alzheimer's risk genes.

And so that's how I came across his work. And that's why he's in the film. So it's a really interesting kind of connection. I was surprised to see him. I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, because he's not known for like brain health, you know? No, but he explained it really well. He did. Yeah. Like the fact that I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. He's, I mean, he's very articulate and I love that scene in the film. And the film, yeah, so we have like these incredible researchers in the film from Brown University, from Harvard, from Weill Cornell, New York Presbyterian, from, I mean, NYU. And then we have physicians in the film who are also really

powerful advocates for holistic health that are more well-known, I guess you could say. Yeah. So Dr. Gundry, Dr. Mark Hyman. Oh, yes. He looked so different. Yeah. Because these guys are like, they do great work, but they're very much in the public sphere.

And anybody in the public sphere today is going to have criticism, right? Yeah. But the central thesis of the film is essentially that there are many factors that influence our risk for dementia, but diet is a major one. And one of the biggest problems with the modern food environment is that it's become largely ultra processed. And one of the potential, or I would say one of the causal reasons for the fact that now our diets have become so dominated by these food

like products is that for many decades, we demonized whole foods, but animal source foods, you know, natural fat containing foods that we were warned to stay away from, or at least to reduce our consumption of, for fear of cardiovascular disease because of the presence of dietary cholesterol and things like that, which we now know, subsequent to decades of investigation, that dietary cholesterol, for example, has very little impact on blood cholesterol. But one of the consequences, one of the unintended consequences of demonizing those foods for so long is that it's opened the door for the food industry to promote these plant-based ultra processed food, like, you know, alternative foods, right?

Yeah. That we now, you know, over consume to the tune of about 60% of our calories every day coming from those kinds of foods. And so that's a big problem. There was a scene of you in the grocery store. It was actually the same grocery store that I used to go to when I lived in New York. It was the Union, the Star one. Do you remember that one?

The Prospect Market or something? Yes. I forget what the name was. You were in the store that I used to go to. Wow. You go down an aisle with your mom and you're like, these, these are the food like products. And she's like, chips. And you're like, okay, let's go somewhere else. Love that. So sweet. Something that stood out to me that the doctors said was when you have dementia, your brain has technically been deteriorating for

20 to 30 years before you even get the diagnosis. Is that accurate? Yeah. Once you've been diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, you are essentially in late stage Alzheimer's disease. That's a disease that has... It's essentially a disease of midlife with symptoms that appear in late life. But it's a condition now we're starting to see research coming out

showing us that midlife visceral adiposity, midlife hypertension, midlife blood sugar dysregulation is all associated with starkly increased risk for Alzheimer's disease. tempting and probably smart to start eating well and introducing the kimchi that you're in, you know, certain foods that are maybe good for brain health. But is it too late at that point? Like, is it better to prevent rather than treat when you get the diagnosis? It's never too late to take action. So it's absolutely never too late. And once you've been diagnosed, nobody's ever recovered from Alzheimer's disease. So I don't believe we have sufficient evidence to say that it's a reversible condition. I would never use that word. But I think that with a multimodal dietary and lifestyle intervention, I think we could probably slow the progression of the disease.

So that's why my mom, even though she had dementia, we immediately put her on a workout routine, exercise regimen, and I did whatever I could to improve her diet. But yeah, I think knowing that it starts so many years prior to the onset of symptoms, I mean, that's the real empowering message to me. That's the window of opportunity with which we can intervene. Yeah. And that's why, you know, us doing what we do now, it will be worth it in the long run. Because we don't even really know necessarily.

I mean, when we're young, I'm 29, actually just turned 30. Who are they? Thank you. Living a healthy lifestyle can feel okay. I feel good, like this is the right thing to do, but you kind of don't even realize the benefit of doing it until later on in life, you know? Do you feel like your mom was eating a diet

of like what we were talking about, like the Cheerios, the muffins? Like I feel like a lot of our parents' generation were eating margarine, grains. And now we're kind of, us millennials are having this realization and trying to help our parents switch their diet mindset. But it's difficult because they were

watching marketing for years and years that was maybe convincing them that that was the right way to eat. Yeah, I think we've seen our parents and many of us millennials have been raised on this food pyramid paradigm where we were implored every day to consume six to 11 servings of grains.

I mean, I don't know if I eat that quantity of grains on a weekly basis. Yeah. And I think what's come out over the past few decades is this collusion between the food industry and those who architect our dietary guidelines. I mean, the 2020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans Committee had 95, 95% of individuals on that committee had ties with big pharma and big food. And so there are,

these guidelines tend to be rife with conflicts of interest with industry and the like. And I think it's like, it doesn't take somebody with a nutrition PhD to look at grains and to say like, what actually is in a grain that makes them essential for good health? Because that's certainly what we're told even today. And then you take these grains and you refine them and you use them to create these ultra-processed grain-based products with added sugars and emulsifiers and the like. And that, I think, is at the hallmark of the standard American diet, which we know drives disease. What I'm not saying is that grains cause Alzheimer's disease and dementia. That's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that we've been led astray with regard to what it really means to eat a high-quality, nutrient-dense diet. Yeah. And in the film, they were kind of saying what are accepted breakfast foods are muffins, pastries, cereal, all of these carbs, and it's not even real food. And it's just kind of crazy. You know, there were some vintage advertisements in the film that were kind of mind-blowing. It's like, you can really see how this made such an impact in American culture.

And there was even studies showing brain shrinkage in pre-diabetic kids. That's insane. Yeah, I mean, we're now seeing people develop these kinds of conditions at increased rates. We're seeing pathology in the brains of young people that looks very similar to the pathology we see in late-onset Alzheimer's disease. Children are now, we're seeing pre-hypertension in adolescents. There have been studies showing us, I mean, one of the really interesting newly identified risk factors for Alzheimer's disease and other forms of dementia is exposure to air pollution. And we've seen that air pollution can actually,

in younger people, even children, cause the aggregation of these plaques that we associate with Alzheimer's disease. And so we're not immune. I mean, when we're young, we tend to think of ourselves as being immune from these kinds of conditions, but we're not. And they take decades to develop. And so the sooner we can start

thinking about our long-term health, the better. But the good news is that you're, you know, eating and living in a way that has your long-term health in mind doesn't mean that we have to forego looking our best and feeling our best in the short term. I mean, you can be just as jacked and look how you want, you know, in a way that also keeps your eye on the prize of long-term health, of cognitive health in the long term. What are some of those things that we can be doing right now

that are going to help us prevent brain issues later in life? Well, nutrition we've talked about quite a bit. And, you know, I certainly have my thoughts on nutrition. I think we want to minimize our consumption of ultra-processed foods. We can eat some here and there. Indulging now and then can be a part of the plan. And the point isn't to say that these foods cause these conditions in any quantity. I mean, there's certainly, the dose makes the poison.

But insofar as we can architect a diet of mainly whole foods that incorporate both animal source foods, eggs, for example, are a fantastic cognitive multivitamin. Eggs are an amazing food. We just saw a study that came out, I believe there were about, it was like an N of 1500 people or so that found that egg consumers had a 50% risk reduction for Alzheimer's disease, which is amazing. Thought to be attributed to the, in part to the choline in egg yolks. So an egg yolk literally contains everything that mother nature has deemed important to build a brain,

like a chicken brain nonetheless, but a brain. And- It kills me when people just eat whites. Yeah. I'm like, for what chicken brain nonetheless, but a brain. And it kills me when people just eat whites. Yeah. I'm like, for what? Yeah. It's just protein. It's like, but there's all this nutrition in the yolk. Yeah. I like to mix like whole eggs with egg whites sometimes if you want to like jack up the protein a little bit. Yeah. But you should definitely be getting a few egg yolks in here and there. I feel like the whites, like that's an aesthetic play. Yeah. You know, that's like a bodybuilder aesthetic play,

but the yolk is like the real nutrients. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Even if I'm trying to like cut up a little bit, like I'll still do, you know, two to three whole eggs and then I'll pour egg whites

like into the concoction and make like a scramble, you know. They're great. I'm a huge fan of grass-fed, grass-finished red meat. I know we've talked about that quite a bit. So the food stuff, I think, is important. But it's also important to acknowledge that that's not the only factor.

It's not the only... There are other parts of the pie that I think are really important. Air pollution, for example. I think making sure that the air that you're breathing is clean air, that you're reducing your exposure to fine particulate matter and even certain environmental toxins. I had a researcher on my podcast,

Dr. Ray Dorsey. I think I might've connected him with you guys. Really? He's in University of Rochester. Oh no, he was like flying in and out or something. And I don't think the timing worked out, but. My sister went to that school. Yeah?

He's this fantastic neurologist researcher who's published a lot looking at the impact of certain environmental toxins, like certain herbicides and pesticides and industrial solvents, namely a compound called trichloroethylene, which is still being used in dry cleaning today, and Parkinson's disease.

He's identified that these compounds are essentially mitochondrial poisons. And we breathe them in through our noses. And the nose is the front door to the brain. So we want to be really careful about what we're allowing in. Wow. Yeah.

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but so was I, you know? Yeah. On the other hand, my mom worked in the garment center in New York, so she was a clothing manufacturer. And when you're manufacturing clothing in New York, I mean, you are likely being exposed to solvents and certain, you know, industrial chemicals. So I'll never know, of course, what caused my mom's dementia,

but it's an investigation, obviously, that, you know, I'll be pursuing for the rest of my life. But yeah, she was likely exposed to some of these, you know, some of these compounds, which we're starting to see now are, they're literally used in animal models to create Parkinson's disease. And epidemiologic studies have shown that exposure to, for example, this trichloroethylene compound has been associated with a 500% increased risk for the development of Parkinson's disease. Wow. And even if you live near a dry

cleaner that's using this compound, you are at risk of exposure. It easily infiltrates groundwater. It readily evaporates. They've identified it because it's fat soluble in butter in homes nearby in proximity to dry cleaners. Oh my God. Yeah. So it's pretty nuts and it's a massive public health concern. And I spoke recently at a conference called Brain and Environment in DC, and there were representatives from the EPA there. And it's a growing area of concern. And there have been proposed bans on these chemicals, But nonetheless, you know, I mean, we're so reactionary as a society, right? We let these compounds run loose in society only sometimes decades later to find out that they were poisonous. This occurred with lead and paint, asbestos in our

buildings, in our homes, partially hydrogenated fats in our food supply. It's like an ongoing reactionary. It's just the way that we seem to do things as humans and it's leading to real harm. What about if we get our clothes dry cleaned and we're wearing them? Yes, right? We're being exposed. Yes, potentially. Yeah. Although the use of these compounds is on the decline because awareness around them has increased. And so I believe trichloroethylene is still being used in very specific applications, for example, spot cleaning. But it's a replacement chemical that's now being used in its place per chloroethylene, I believe is still being used with greater ubiquity. So you just want to be careful. I would not, after, I mean, after coming across, and this is not, I mean,

this is like all peer-reviewed stuff, published literature. You can go and find it. Dr. Dorsey, he's done a lot of work in this field to, you know, unearth this research. But I would not, after coming across it, dry clean my clothing at a non-green dry cleaner. And I would ask and I would make sure that they're not using trichloroethylene or perchloroethylene. Yeah, it's worth calling and asking. It's worth it, yeah. And then what do you think for pollution of using

like an air doctor type air filter in your bedroom or something? I think it makes perfect sense. I mean, indoor air by some estimates can be 10 times, if not more, polluted than outdoor air because of these volatile organic compounds when our furniture off gases. It's a different kind of air pollution when you're outside the pollution that's most risky is what's called fine particulate matter or pm 2.5 and that's the type of pollution that's been most closely linked to alzheimer's disease indoor air pollution is a little bit different indoor air pollution you're being exposed to endocrine disrupting compounds potentially and the like. But I do think that, you know, I do think,

and this is not to be alarmist, it's just to generally just bring awareness to this topic. I think if you can purify your air, why not? If you can afford to do that, right? Also because homes are getting better and better insulated as a cost-saving measure. And so, you know, having, making sure that your home is ventilated, you actually don't even, I mean, you could, I think an air purifier

makes a ton of sense and I have one in my home, but if you can't afford that, you know, it's just making sure that you're vacuuming or wet dusting regularly to pick some of this stuff up, making sure that your home is well ventilated, changing the filter in your HVAC system to a filter that picks up some of these compounds, I think, all super worthwhile. Definitely not a waste of effort. What about brain injuries? Let's say someone skis or snowboards or plays football and they hit their head a lot. Is that something that can impact the chances of dementia? It can, yeah. Particularly for carriers of the APOE4 allele. So you just want to be careful. I think it is worthwhile for anybody who decides to engage in risky, whether it's boxing or playing football or whatever, to do a gene test first and to rule out the APOE4 allele because that increases risk

for TBI, CTE, et cetera, for downstream developing Alzheimer's disease. The APOE4 allele just makes you more vulnerable in general in the context of the standard American diet and lifestyle, but also with head injuries. So you just want to be careful. How do we know if we have that gene? Do you have to do genetic testing? Yeah, 23andMe is a good option. I think they still do that. I'm not 100% sure. But yeah, most, I think many labs now, I feel like it's a fairly common test. Even like a med spa. Like I went to somewhere out here that does ozone therapy and they offered a genetic test. And I did that to see if I had the MTHFR. MTHFR? Yes. The motherfucker gene. I didn't have it. I was shocked.

That's good. Yeah. I mean, that's like, there's not a ton of really solid science on that to my knowledge. I think it can impact methylation pathways. And it can, if you have that, potentially lead to higher levels of homocysteine, which is a risk factor for Alzheimer's disease, cardiovascular disease. There's some research that suggests that MTHFR carriers would benefit from taking a B-complex, like a methylated B-complex, to help bring down homocysteine. There's a researcher, I believe his name is David Smith, who's found that that can actually help slow brain atrophy over time,

which is a good thing. Yeah. So yeah, I think I'm homozygous for that mutation as well. So I've been told by my doctor who's a dementia prevention specialist to take a B-complex. Oh, who's a dementia prevention specialist to take B complex. Oh, that's awesome.

Yeah. What about supplementation outside of the B complex for brain health? Like, what is some of your lineup that you like to take? Well, I'm a huge fan of, I love creatine. I mean, it's been known for decades to be supportive of exercise, physical performance and things like that. But now there's all this research coming out showing that supplemental creatine might actually play a really beneficial role in brain health and brain function. There was like a meta-analysis recently that showed that in young and healthy

people, there was a modest but significant impact on cognitive function. And so I take creatine. I think creatine is great. I'm a big protein fan. So I supplement with protein. I also love a supplement called astaxanthin. Are you familiar with astaxanthin? No. Astaxanthin is a carotenoid found in salmon. So it's what gives salmon that red color. Okay. It's a pigment. So salmon that are bred without access to astaxanthin come out gray, but it's the astaxanthin that makes salmon red. And it's one of the most powerful antioxidants found in nature. And studies show that it might play a protective role in eye health and brain health. It helps to protect brain cell membranes, which is a really

important thing for a compound to do because brain cell membranes are under constant oxidative stress. And yeah, so astaxanthin, it's a totally natural compound. And it actually has developed, it also might actually improve skin health and skin appearance as well. Because it's generated by algae that sit at the surface of the sea. And these algae are exposed on a constant basis to the DNA damaging rays of the sun. And so they develop this incredibly powerful antioxidant to protect it from the sun's rays. Wow. And the salmon eat the algae. Actually, flamingos also eat it. So flamingos are

born white. They turn pink because they eat this algae. And yeah, it's thought that this compound gives salmon the resilience, the metabolic resilience to swim upstream every season. Have you heard of Copper River Salmon? I've heard of it, yeah. Okay. This is my Roman Empire right now. I'm obsessed with Copper River Salmon. It's an Alaskan salmon, wild,

that swims upstream its whole life. So it has very little white fat content. Like it's pretty much just pink slash red from the... Astaxanthin? Yes. And it's 90 pounds... Sorry, it's $90 per pound. Whoa. And it's only available May through August. And you can get it at Whole Foods or Central Market, but they've officially run out. So now I'm ordering it online, but it is the best freaking salmon I've ever had in my life.

Whoa. Yeah. I've never had in my life. Whoa. Yeah. I've never had it. You got to order it. Damn. I'm going to have to take on some more sponsors to afford it. Me as well. Me as well.

My husband was like, what are you doing? Sounds great though. I just spent $600 on salmon. Damn. I can't even explain how good it is. And it tastes good? So freaking good. Wow.

It's like the best salmon I've ever had. And it's so vibrant. But also just you mentioning this supplement, the Amazon sales are going to go through the roof, I'm sure. Can you say it again? What is it? It's called astaxanthin. Astaxanthin. Yeah. So there's a company called AX3 that makes a really good version of it. And it's something I've been taking for the past 15 years, like prior to any relationship with any supplement manufacturer. But I read the research on its impact on skin and I thought it was super impressive. I want to take it.

Also, because we know carotenoids are really like beta carotene is another carotenoid. We know that that's really beneficial to eye health, but lutein and zeaxanthin are found in dark leafy greens. And those are also really good for brain health and eye health. So it seems like humans have this really wonderful synergistic relationship with these plant pigments. And astaxanthin is unique because it's not a plant pigment. It's an algal pigment that is consumed by salmon because they know what's up, flamingos, and then we ingest those. And that might be at least partially what's responsible for the health benefits that we see when we consume fish. Yeah. I mean, obviously fish have omega-3s and they have a great source of protein, but it's definitely an interesting compound.

I want my dad to take it because he has glaucoma. I feel like he needs something for his eye health. Yeah, it's a great potential eye health supplement. So is lutein. I don't think he takes one supplement. No? No. The irony.

Bottle of wine per night. He's got access to so many great ones. Oh, I know. You know? Not one. Wow. He's like a ham and cheese wine. He eats well.

It's just like European AF. Yeah. Very chill. My dad smokes cigarettes and doesn't have the best diet. And I love my dad, but he's very stubborn. You know, he can be like that. Something he said in the film actually stood out to me. Oh, yeah.

You see him smoking in the film. Yes, yes. And you guys are sitting on the balcony in New York. And he said something along the lines of, it's natural as you age to start forgetting things. He was like, oh, yeah, your mom's just aging. And as he's saying it, you're going like, no. Yeah.

Like, what was that moment? I think in the film, because I mean, I certainly wasn't as well, I wasn't as fluent in the topic as I am now, but it probably was just a, that would be such a shame, you know, if we all are destined to develop cognitive decline one day. Yeah. It was just funny to hear his like perspective on it and be like, yeah, this is

natural as you age. Like you start forgetting where your keys are. And there was so much more than that. So it was just interesting to hear that perspective. And I feel like it was relatable because I think a lot of us who are into health and wellness kind of struggle to communicate to our parents like why this is so important, you know? Yeah, it's, I mean, there is a degree of forgetfulness that increases with age, right? I mean, like, nothing works as well when you're 80 as it did when you were 25. That's just a fact of life, unfortunately. But cognitive impairment is not normal. Yeah. So that's what we have to fight against.

You mentioned you have a dementia prevention doctor. Yeah. Do you, if you don't mind me asking, do you do frequent scans of the brain? Like, how does that work? I used to, because when I lived in New York at this time, when I was filming the documentary, I became aware of and ultimately a patient of this clinic in New York

called the Alzheimer's Prevention Clinic, which was one of the only in the world, if not the only, that was both working within the confines of a major medical institution, Weill Cornell New York Presbyterian, but also was really pushing the envelope in a way because 10 years ago, very few people were talking about Alzheimer's as a potentially preventable condition.

And so I became aware of their work and I went and I started seeing a physician there who ultimately ended up becoming one of my mentors in science, actually. His name is Dr. Richard Isaacson. And he's now based in Florida, actually. I think he switched to a university down in Florida. But yeah, so I became a patient to essentially assess my risk. So they did a number of cognitive tests to establish a baseline, which is smart for anybody, no matter who they are. There's actually a test that you can download online and bring to your physician.

It's called the SAGE test. And it's basically a cognitive test that you do at home and you bring to your physician for them to establish a baseline of your cognitive abilities. And then in tandem with that, they do a bunch, they draw blood and they do a bunch of different, you know, biomarker stuff, which, you know, I've subsequently learned a lot about and I talk a lot about and I've written about in my books, you know, biomarkers like, well, whether blood pressure or blood sugar, fasting blood sugar, your hemoglobin A1c, your homocysteine, various lipid markers, your omega-3 index. These are all relevant when it comes to brain health.

But the earlier you can get that sort of baseline test and then test over time, the better. So yeah, so I became a patient and then ultimately I became a subject in a study that they were running, which I'm still, I believe, a part of. I'm part of that cohort, although I haven't followed up in quite some time. But then I also was able to collaborate in many ways with that team. I started creating video content for them. Wow. For some of their educational outreach materials.

And then I helped to co-author a chapter in a textbook for professionals. So I've actually gotten to teach doctors about the clinical practice of dementia prevention and a lot more. So it's been a really cool experience. That's awesome. Did you ever go to Dr. Amen? I did go to Dr. Amen once for a segment on the Dr. Oz show. He scanned my brain and I forgot the details. But I don't know how evident, I mean, with regards to Alzheimer's disease. I mean, I know he's done a lot of research and I'm sure he has his own, you know, statistical analysis that he's run. But yeah, I'm not 100% sure how that all correlates to, you know, those kinds of scans specifically. More mental health focused, maybe?

That's what it seems like. Yeah. But I'm not sure. Yeah. When I went in for mine, it was definitely more like trauma focused and the triangle at the front of the brain that's lit up and, you know, more ADHD style testing. With the epidemic of child obesity and the blood glucose issues we're

seeing in the US, do you think we're going to see a rise of dementia? Yes. I think that it's unquestionable that these conditions that are now increasing in prevalence are related to risk for dementia. And insofar as those risk factors are increasing, I think it's one of the reasons why experts predict that cases of Alzheimer's disease are essentially going to explode in the coming years. Wow. We're seeing, I mean, by 2030, half of us are going to be not just overweight, but obese. We're seeing pre-hypertension in adolescence, as we talked about. Almost everybody today has some degree of insulin resistance, depending on where you look. I mean,

some studies point to 90% of people having some degree of metabolic dysregulation. And we know that the brain relies on good metabolic health. We know that the brain thrives in a low inflammation environment. But unfortunately today, so many of us are ill that it wouldn't surprise me if that's having a downstream consequence on our collective brain health. What's an average age that you would start seeing symptoms of dementia? That's hard to say, but I would say, I believe it's somewhere in the 80s is typical. Of course, you know, there are exceptions to that. And my mom developed it in her late 50s.

But yeah, age is still the number one risk factor. So the older you get, the higher the risk. And it was really, as I said before, eye-opening to see what it's like to be a caregiver for someone with dementia. It's pretty all-encompassing. I mean, you can speak better to that. But am I right in saying your mom had someone living in the home with her and then you had to move back to New York to be around as well? Like it's a full family.

Ordeal. Yeah. Yeah. Can you tell us more about that? Yeah. I mean, it's the hardest thing. It's all hands on deck ordeal. And when my mom started to develop these symptoms, she was essentially by herself and going to these various doctor's appointments. And, you know, whenever you're sick, it becomes really, you're scared. You know, it's like fight or flight. You, I think, cease to be able to advocate for yourself in an optimized way because you're frustrated, you're scared,

you're confused. Why me? And so at that point, I knew that I had to step in to start going with my mom to all these different appointments. And of course, as the condition progressed, she became really limited and became a risk to herself in certain ways. She ceased to be able to cook. She couldn't leave the house without either myself or one of my brothers or her health aide. And so, yeah, it is a really difficult condition. It's considered a caregiver's disease in many ways because it's just so taxing on the family unit. Yeah. That's why dementia, I mean, it doesn't just affect the person involved. It affects everybody. Yeah. And yeah, it's really super, super difficult.

And that's, I mean, part of why I made the film is I wanted it to provide solace to people who are going through it. There really haven't been very many dementia films made. And the ones that have been made are decades old. Usually they showcase patients that are well into their senior years. And I felt like this was a film that really had the potential to bring awareness of this topic to a different demographic,

a younger demographic. In part, because my mom is so charismatic and my mom, you know, she's so relatable. Yeah. And yeah, and if it can help, you know, one person avoid that fate, then what she went through, what we went through as a family isn't in vain, you know? Absolutely. I think it will achieve that and more. You know, I walked away feeling so much more knowledgeable about the condition and just more passionate about it.

I think seeing the emotion of it and seeing what she went through and what you went through and your family went through was really eye-opening. And it just kind of highlighted the importance of this conversation. And if you're listening and you're young, I mean, I'm 30 years old. This is relevant to us too, because we don't know what's going to happen with our parents. We don't know what's going to happen with us. Like everything we can do to prevent this is important. And it was even interesting. We were talking before about how you were living in LA pursuing this hosting career and left to go be with your mom in New York. And it seems like you kind of found purpose in the pain and took this experience and made a career out of it. Totally. Yeah. So I had been, I had had a job as a journalist working for Al Gore.

I was one of the main producers and journalists for a TV network that he had in the US that two of your listeners might remember called Current TV. And so I was on that for many years. And then I left that lofty job where, you know, every day, day in and day out, I was talking about really important topics. And then suddenly I was being put up for hosting jobs in Hollywood, which is absolutely not what I had any intent of doing with my life. But nonetheless, that was what was there for me, you know, after coming off of this really incredible job. Yeah. And I was just so not having it. And then in that time frame, that same time frame where I was really disenchanted by Hollywood and by my career prospects, that's when my mom got sick.

And so for me, it was a no-brainer to pack up my life in LA and move back to New York and sacrifice the friends that I had made and the life that I had had ultimately. But it's a decision that I would have made a thousand times over. And going back to New York and stumbling upon all of the research that I've since uncovered about just how many years it takes for these conditions to manifest. To me, there's never been a stronger call to action in my life. To understand, first and foremost, to the best of my ability, this category of conditions and the factors that might predispose us to developing them, and then to advocate, to evangelize what it is that I'm learning, became my call to know, my call to

action, my vocation. You know, it's not just a job for me. It's something that, I mean, I do love what I do. I wake up every day excited to do what it is that I do, whether it's host my podcast or, you know, for the past 10 years work on this film. But it's also something that has profound meaning for me because, you know, I saw it in my mom. I think that's what separates me from a lot of the other people in our space is that I've seen profound illness that didn't resolve. There was no happy ending. And so for me, it's never to instill false hope. It's never to portray as though I have all of the answers. I don't. I could easily develop in 20 years what it is that my mom had developed. But, you know, unlike, I think, my mom's generation,

we do have enough insight where we don't have to sit idly on our hands anymore. We can take action. Yeah. It was very interesting for me to watch as someone who knows you today and all the amazing things that you do today, because I didn't really know where it all begun. And I knew that you filmed this 10 years ago and you were at a different place in your life, but it was very eye-opening for me to see where you started and kind of gave me context as to why you are so passionate now and where all the research came from. I mean, even the clips of you

interviewing doctors, I was like, oh, this was like the seeding of everything that he does now. And it was pretty incredible. Yeah, there was no magic diet that helped my mom. There was no magic supplement. It really was incredibly tragic and difficult. And it's given me, I think, a perspective and an empathy for people to meet them where they're at. Yeah. And yeah, I'm super, super appreciative that you perceive that. Yeah. No, I think this is a very meaningful project.

And I'm so excited for you that it's finally coming out. And it kind of like, you know, I can never imagine what you went through, but I'm sure it feels like this was all for something. And there's a lot of purpose and meaning behind that. Last question I want to ask. I kind of want to know what your personal diet was like back then before all of this versus now. Were you as healthy as you are now or no? I don't think so. I think for many years, I kind of drank the Kool-Aid with regard to

incorporating lots of whole grains. And kind of in the back of my head, thinking foods like eggs were really tasty, but maybe not that good for me to be consumed liberally. Yeah. You grew up in New York, right? I grew up in New York City, yeah. Don't you kind of, I want to hear your take on this. Because I kind of grew up in New York from age 10 onwards.

I moved from the UK. I view New York, I don't think it's that healthy. It certainly wasn't back then. I mean, but who was? There were... But even now, when I go back, I'm like, it's a lot of bread. Yeah. It's a lot of, yeah, sandwich culture.

Yeah, sandwich culture, like bagels, pizza, it's more normalized there. Yes. 100%. Yeah. And it's like a dirty city. I love New York, but it's definitely not a city to live in if wellness is a true priority to you. Because it's noisy. It stimulates your fight or flight. your consent. You'll just be walking on the street and suddenly an ambulance goes by and you're like, wow, I'm like in fight or flight right now. Yeah. That was not... A bike is running you over.

Yeah. It's wild. True story. I like a couple months ago was in New York crossing the street. And I'm from New York. This is like should be native to me, but I was almost killed by a biker. No. Yeah, I swear to God. I was almost... They really fly like those Uber Eats guys. They fly. Flew by at, I want to say, easily 20, 30 miles an hour, inches from my nose.

No. Yeah. Wow. I almost, I mean, that moment stands out to me. I'm not surprised. I see them flying around and I'm like, this is a disaster. Nuts. But yeah, I mean, I didn't, I grew up without really understanding the difference between organic and conventional, you know, all that kind of stuff. My mom was not a believer in organic. I don't eat everything organic today, but I do think it's, you know, important in

certain contexts. Or maybe not, you know, I think people should buy what they can afford, but, um, but, you know, I, I, I would rather in light of what I know about, you know, these kinds of herbicides and pesticides and what they can do potentially occupationally. And I know the, the, the deception that, you know, is often the result of the food industry and lobbying and whatever with regard to covering up science. I try to eat certain types of food organic as much as possible. And yeah, I was just like lots of grains all the time. If it was white, I would avoid it like the plague pretty much. Brown rice.

But brown rice, I would like go ham. Yeah. And now I know that there's really no major difference. And in fact, depending rice, I would like go ham, you know? And now I know that, you know, there's really no big, no, no major difference. And in fact, depending on where the brown rice is grown, it could harbor arsenic. You know, I typically reach for white rice now, which 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I would have been shocked, you know, if you would have, if you would have told me that. So yeah, my diet's certainly evolved and my awareness around air pollution and things like that all changed.

And yeah, and now I've adopted animal source foods as like a really important staple in my diet. Yeah. Are your brothers on board with that too, out of curiosity? Yeah. They're not as passionate about it as I am, but they do try to eat healthy, you know, as best they can. Because we see the health that my mom had and we see that my dad's, a lot of my dad's attitude towards health and his smoking and, you know, a life of not really caring too much about what goes into his mouth, you know, is now starting to manifest as real serious health issues. So, you know, we're all getting older and it's starting to dawn on us that these, our choices do have consequences. And for so many of us with every meal, essentially,

we're inflicting real self-harm. Yeah. And this is just not something that I think I would have appreciated, you know, 10 years ago. Yeah. Well, Max, thank you so much. Thank you, Mari. I love the film. I think you're doing amazing things. Yeah. Well, Max, thank you so much. Thank you, Mari. I love the film.

I think you're doing amazing things. Aw. Can you tell everyone where they can find you? Where can they listen to the podcast? Where can they watch the movie? Yeah, so littleemptyboxes.com. People can stream it,

rent it, buy it to own it, along with some really interesting and cool bonuses like a commentary, the film with a commentary track and a featurette. But yeah, you can watch it at littleemptyboxes.com. And then I host my own podcast called The Genius Life. And I'm on Instagram and all the socials. Slay. Thank you so much, Max.

You're the best. Thank you. Thanks for joining us on the Pursuit of Wellness podcast. To support this show, please rate and review and share with your loved ones if you want to be reminded of new episodes click the subscribe button on your preferred podcast or video player you can sign up for my newsletter to receive my favorites at mariawelland.com it will be linked in the show notes this is a wellness out loud production produced by drake peterson fiona attics and kelly kyle this show is edited by Mike Fry and our video is recorded by Luis Vargas. You can also watch the full video of each episode on our YouTube channel at Mari

Fitness. Love you, Power Girls and Power Boys. See you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and does not constitute a provider-patient relationship. As always, talk to your doctor or health team.