Pursuit of Wellness - Top Tips For Clear Glowy Skin - By Me & Experts

Episode Date: March 6, 2025

Ep. 180: Struggling with breakouts, scarring, or just looking for that glow-up? I get it—after years of dealing with cystic acne, I finally found what works for me, and I’m sharing it all in this episode! We’re talking acne, aging, inflammation, and everything in between with some of the best skin experts out there: Celeste Thomas, Daisy Keech, and Clearstem founders Danielle & Kayleigh. I also asked my esthetician, Jackie from Vixen, to break down exactly what we do to keep my skin clear and glowing, from treatments to must-have products. Plus, we’re diving into red light therapy, gua sha, and the skincare mistakes you might be making. Let’s get into it! Leave Me a Message - click here! For Mari’s Instagram click here! For Pursuit of Wellness Podcast’s Instagram click here! For Mari’s Newsletter click here! For Celeste’s Instagram click here! For Daisy’s Instagram click here! For CLEARSTEM’s Instagram click here! Sponsored By: Blissy is offering 60-nights risk-free PLUS an additional 30% off when you shop at Blissy.com/POWPOD and use code POWPOD. Your skin and hair will thank you! Eating healthy shouldn’t be confusing. Thrive Market makes it easy with high-quality, no-junk groceries at the best prices. Get 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift at thrivemarket.com/POW! Get pure, great-tasting water with AquaTru’s powerful filtration. Save 20% on any purifier at AquaTru.com with code POW. Find natural relief for period discomfort with Foria’s all-organic formulas. Get 20% off your first order at foriawellness.com/POW or use code POW. Snack smarter with MASA chips—made with just three clean ingredients for a crunchy, guilt-free bite. Get 20% off at masachips.com/discount/MARI20 when you use my code MARI20. Show Links: “Everyone Is Washing Their Face Wrong!” Skincare, Motherhood & Fertility w/ Celeste Thomas Daisy Keech On Healing From A Toxic Lifestyle, Mold, Acne & Finding Her Dream Relationship Acne Deep Dive: Candida, Mold, Heavy Metals, Pore Clogging Ingredients, Hair Care, Diet Soda & How To Order At Restaurants w/ Clearstem Founders Danielle & Kayleigh (Pt. 2) Dr. Gabrielle Lyon on Muscle, Creatine & the Links Between H. Pylori & Acne | Part 2 Boost energy and focus with Bloom Sparkling Energy—refreshing, zero-sugar drinks with natural caffeine, prebiotics, and metabolism-boosting ingredients. Topics Discussed 00:00:09 Introduction 00:02:31 Things I have done to help my skin 00:05:22 Products I’ve been loving 00:08:24 Notes from my esthetician about my treatments 00:10:54 How to wash your face correctly (Ep. 68: Celeste Thomas) 00:12:10 Cleansers that Celeste loves 00:12:31 How important is skincare?  00:17:12 Celeste’s key principles to skin and what actually works 00:20:44 How to know if a product is actually non pore clogging? 00:22:28 Cons of Accutane  00:24:34 Mold and other environmental toxins triggering skin issues (Ep. 104: Daisy Keech) 00:25:52 A gene that can prevent you from detoxing 00:27:02 Being make up free with acne 00:28:14 Insecurities that come with bad skin 00:30:24 Eating beef kidney/liver to heal acne 00:32:08 Glutathione injections  00:32:31 Taking peptides for skin 00:33:27 Makeup and acne 00:39:44 Non-pore clogging skincare vs.“clean” (Ep. 90: CLEARSTEM) 00:42:24 The effects of pore clogging ingredients, other than acne  00:45:11 Clearstem’s Sulfur Spot & Mask 00:47:57 Retinoids 00:51:27 Dermatologists 00:52:45 Microneedling with acne 00:57:08 Recommended non pore clogging makeup brands

This is the Pursuit of Wellness podcast and I'm your host, Mari Llewellyn. Hi guys, welcome back to the show. My name is Mari, I am your host. And today we are talking skin. We are going to hear from some amazing experts today. I've had so many incredible skin experts on the show. We talk about acne, aging, ways to just like look your glowiest. I have personally been through my own crazy skin journey. I am so happy with where my skin's at now. I feel like I, for the first time in my life, I'm not struggling with breakouts. I had 10 years of cystic acne. So as a teenager, I really like didn't have that much acne. My acne really picked up like end of college into adulthood and it just got gradually

worse and worse and I really couldn't figure out why I got so much testing done. At first, it was because I had high testosterone. I was put on all these different antibiotics like doxycycline and you know the classic dermatologist solutions and none of it worked for me and it would just come and go, come and go. Tried spironolactone, that worked but not amazing. I tried crazy diets, I did carnivore, I did keto, I cut everything out. It was actually such a crazy time for me. The only thing that ultimately worked

was figuring out that I had a gut bacteria called H. pylori. I've talked about this many, many times. So you should go back and listen to some of my H. pylori episodes. If you want more info, listen to my episode with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon as well. But ever since healing my acne, I feel like I've really gotten to focus on scarring, aging, kind of like the fun skin stuff, which has been so exciting, especially during IVF to have some like self-care tools to focus on. It's been really fun. So I wanted to just give you guys like some suggestions I have, some products I've been loving, tools I've loving. Um, I also spoke to my aesthetician, Jackie from Vixen, which is where I get all my facials and got some suggestions from her of what to tell you guys with

like products we've used on my face, treatments we've done, things like that. I actually do really want to get her on the podcast at some point, but TBD. Right now we've kind of put a pause on guest episodes, but coming back soon, I'm just trying to get through this IVF home stretch. So I want to talk to you guys about some of the things I do in my life that help with skin. Red light therapy, huge. I think red light therapy is amazing for face and body skin, really good for scarring, inflammation, even like wound healing. I feel like when I'm consistent with my red light

is when my skin looks the best. I love Bon Charge, great red light therapy brand. I work with them, but I also just love the products. They have a red light face masks that you can do things while wearing. You just wear it 10 minutes a day. They also have panels, tons of different options. So red light therapy, I also feel like you can meditate,

you can cook, like so many things you can do while doing red light. I also love the sauna or steam. I think really good for sweating, detoxing, flushing out the skin, obviously wash your face right afterwards, but that has been like such a great tool for me. I think that sauna, steam, sweating, detoxing, I feel like my skin always looks so good afterwards.

I just make sure that I wash my face really quickly so that the sweat isn't sitting on my face. You guys can also get like sprays that kill the bacteria. I really like the hydrinity hyacin mist. It's an anti-microbial mist. It remains stable and will kill any bacteria. So like I do that after riding my horse, after the gym, after the sauna. If you need a quick solution and you can't wash your face. Really, I mean, when my acne was really bad, I used acne safe products like hair. acne was really bad, I used acne safe products like hair. You guys know I love clear stem. They have acne safe body lotion, haircare, lip balm. Like I do break out around my mouth quite a lot.

So I use acne safe lip balm. I will say now that my acne is gone, I do use like regular makeup products because I feel like my skin isn't breaking out from it anymore. So I kind of balance between Acne Safe and like, toxic's the wrong word, but like, you know, normal products. Just something to keep in mind if you're struggling with breakouts.

I would say limited makeup. Like if I'm not on camera, if I don't have important meetings, I'm just wearing my Clore Science sunscreen, which is tinted, and Benefit lip tint, eyebrow gel, and I'm curling my lashes and that's it. I don't put makeup on my skin unless absolutely necessary. I also love ice rollers if you're struggling with inflammation and as I just said, sunscreen daily. I also have been playing around with the Gua Sha. I have a stainless steel face gem Gua Sha that I'll do in the morning if I feel like I'm a little puffy. I've definitely been dealing with face puff more with IVF, like with all the hormones and what have you. So I've been

enjoying that and just kind of like, you know, doing those self-care moments. Some products I've been loving. Okay, these are kind of like fun additions. You guys have probably seen me doing these. My number one, I feel like I'm gonna have to order more of these, I don't want them to sell out. I fricking love them, are my Jouer eye masks. They are like the gold eye masks. I'll wear them to like workout classes, walks.

They are so moist and make you so dewy under the eyes. And I just feel like they're so hydrating, but they are so cute. I've had a couple people ask me if I'm wearing Gucci eye masks, which is so crazy, because they kind of look like Gucci. I think I saw them on Hailey Bieber and researched them.

I seriously am obsessed. My drawer is full of them. So I'll just go about my morning wearing these eye masks and people kind of don't care. Like they're like, Oh my God, love your eye mask. So cute. It kind of is a vibe. It like fits with the Pilates look. So I love, love, love my Jouer eye masks. J-O-U-E-R. So it's like French. I think Jouer means to play in French, which is interesting. Epicutus face masks.

These are my holy grail hydration masks. It's like in a, it's a black packaging, very chic, very gorgeous, comes in a box. They are a little more expensive, but these are like, they hydrate my face so well. I wear them for like 30 minutes before bed. It is like the perfect thing to do after traveling, even after the sauna,

like anything that's drying your face out. Like when I was in Colorado, I brought them with me. Really, really good for that like glow. Also, I posted this on TikTok today. I have seen all the TikTok girlies, like acquired style and Bridget and all of them. Maybe her name is Bridget. All the cute girly pops on TikTok are doing this face mask where it looks like they have like

3D shiny skin when they wake up. It's an overnight mask. I believe it's Korean. I'm not sure. It's called Medi-Cube. Okay. I get it on Amazon. I just ordered five more this morning. You wake up and you peel it off and it's like the most, I mean you're like a lizard, like you peel your whole face off and you're just so glowy and gorgeous underneath. I am obsessed. I'm like really weird with wearing stuff at night. Like if I do weird hair things or face things, I like feel it and I wake up a lot. So I'm a little bit tired today because, well I think I'm also just anxious. But this face mask makes you so glowy and gorgeous. So now I get why all the girls are using it. And I feel like so many of these products are from Asia. Like I feel like Asia really has their

skincare figured out and we're just like catching on, you know? So Metacube, it's like a little pink squeeze bottle. Put it all over your face. Be careful of getting it in your hair. I definitely did that. And it looks like I have dandruff everywhere but I really just have like the face mask in my hair. So that I've been loving and then I mentioned to you guys the gua sha. I do like this part of my face like upper cheek, jawline, down the neck. I don't do much more than that. I don't really know the technique but it does feel good and I feel like it's like flushing out the lymph nodes. Okay, some notes from Jackie, my aesthetician, of what we did in the treatment room. She wanted me to mention, if you have breakouts and acne, it's important that you find someone

who specializes in acne. They should have good before and afters, testimonials, just not all talk. You want someone who's trained in face reality and DMK and I think that's really important. I've tried a lot of different estheticians and Jackie's been amazing for me because she's so acne focused and she has like an acne boot camp here in Austin. Oh god I hope she doesn't get booked up either Jackie, keep my appointments please. We do chemical peels, we do microneedling, I have microneedling booked with her this week for my scarring. Like she's really seen me through every stage of my acne. She's please. We do chemical peels, we do microneedling, I have microneedling booked with her this week

for my scarring, like she's really seen me through every stage of my acne. She's also really good because I'll text her like back when my acne was really bad and I'd like freak out about a breakout, she would talk me off a ledge, help me stop picking, all the things. So she said I had a combination of inflamed cystic and non-inflamed acne. We would do peels, depending on what her skin could handle. They were Face Reality brand peels. We did LED therapy to kill acne causing bacteria and reduce inflammation. When we started working on my pigment, we used a brightening peel.

That's what we use now, I think. Microneedling to address pigment and texture. Routine, we have me using a gentle cleanser from Clear Stem. We were icing the skin for inflammation. I do mandelic acid, I do beta gel, which is like a hydration. Vivid brightening, which is for scarring. I do acne med, which is benzoyl peroxide, just a light amount on the face. We also used, back when my acne was bad, DMK Actral powder. It's like a powder that like controls sebum production and you can kind of use it as a makeup which is really cool. So a lot of great tips here. And also guys, I used to get extractions way too frequently.

Back in LA, these women would destroy my face. It was crazy. Jackie's very selective with when she's extracting me. Always keeps it light, but extractions do help. It depends on how much acne and what kind of acne, but every other week or so, consistent peels, someone who's just very knowledgeable and helping you. So yeah, I wanted to give you guys a little look

at what I do for my skin. I hope this was helpful. So now let's hop into this mashup of our best and most popular skin experts. Everyone is washing their face wrong. What? Am I washing my face wrong? I mean, probably.

Okay, what? This is one of my biggest, biggest things I like to talk about because think about the end of the day. We are, we're done. We're exhausted. We're literally, I don't want to mess up my mic, but we're doing a five second like cleanser to get our makeup off. If you took a white cotton round and put it on your skin, what would

that look like after you wash your face? Yep. No, you're right. And I've actually tested this out. And that's why I do multiple washes now cleanses because I was not doing it the right way. And no one is. I mean, we're just not thinking about it. So, pow girls, I challenge you, put a timer on your phone for one minute and then cleanse your face, like facial massage, get in there, make sure you're hitting your upper lip, the bridge of your nose, all the way up to your hairline, your neck, like chin, acne, I mean, are we even washing?

The sebum, dirt, oil, indoor pollutants, outdoor pollutants, makeup. Like how is your skin supposed to breathe and absorb any of your products if it's not clean? I just use one cleanser, just one gel based gentle cleanser for my makeup. And if I use it, everyone's going to want to know. I love to. I love the honest simple gel cleanser. It's like 15 bucks. Really good. And then the Clear Stem Cleanser is also incredible, a little bit more expensive, but it's very nice.

Okay. You love Clear Stem. It's great. That was my other question. With all of these recommendations with diet, stress, etc. How important is the actual skincare we're using? I think it's probably, it's so hard because everyone's different. It's like if your diet is a hundred, then it's 50%. But it depends where you are in your journey and what you're

doing. I always like to say it's probably 25 to 30%. Which is crazy because people think it's the thing that will fix their skin. And it's not, it's like the added bonus. It's whoever you're talking to. If you're talking to an aesthetician, they're going to say skincare is 95%. If you talk to a nutritionist, they're going to say diet is 95%. If you talk to a dermatologist, they're going to say, you know, it's genetics and medication is going to be the 95% and just put aquaphor on your face. So everyone, when you're listening to people online, just know your intuition and what

you think is happening in your body is really what's happening. And sure, we have a lot of education to do if you're dealing with your skin and you're struggling, but you can't listen to everyone or everything you hear, especially if there's some sort of motive that involves you paying someone. Yeah, like the whole slugging trend. I'm gonna pass on that one. Hard pass if you're acne prone. Hard pass. Like love it for you guys, not for me. No. A crazy occlusive barrier that's literally meant to clog your pores.

They're using Vaseline, right? Yeah. If you have dry 55 year old skin, 60 year old skin, they've never had a breakout, go off, slug yourself, enjoy. Like I'm not going to put the byproduct of oil manufacturing on my face personally, but there's lots of things you could slug with. I love that. I've been super into my hair and skincare lately and I wish I knew that satin is so bad for you, but Balissy Silk is an incredible game changer. It has made such a difference with my hair and skin. It's so much better than satin, which is made from synthetics, rough on hair and skin and cheap for a reason.

Silk has anti-aging properties, reduces fine lines and wrinkles over time. It also helps eliminate frizz and preserve hairstyles and protects color treated hair. It's dermatologist tested and recommended, clinically proven to not clog pores, which is really, really helpful. It's also antibacterial and hypoallergenic.

I feel like all of us girls are trying to maintain our blowouts, keep things looking cute for many days in a row and Silk can help us do that. I am so obsessed with my Blissie pillowcase. It's like the one that I grab for every single night. I'm absolutely obsessed. Because you're a listener, Blissie is offering 60 nights risk free plus an additional 30% off

when you shop at blissie.com slash pow pod. That's blissy, B L I S S Y.com slash pow pod P O W P O D and use code pow pod to get an additional 30% off your skin and hair. Well, thank you. I have been obsessed with health and fitness for so many years now. And there's definitely so many niche health brands that I like to have in the fridge and the pantry that are difficult to find at my local grocery store and that is why I love Thrive Market. I've been using it for years. It's my go-to online grocery store for getting all of my

healthy essentials delivered and I don't even have to leave my couch. I absolutely love Chomp's Beef Sticks. I love Primal Kitchen. I love C8A and they have all of my favourite health brands on the website. I also love the fact that Thrive Market is the no junk online grocery store. It bans over 1000 harmful ingredients so I know that they're filtering all of the food they have on there. I also love that they have so many on-site filters which makes it so easy to shop for your needs needs whether it's gluten-free snacks, high protein meals or non-toxic cleaning products. I'm super focused on high protein and like paleo eating so I really like to filter that way and I can find my favorite things quickly. I also love their healthy swap scanner if you

have something you love and you want a healthy alternative you can scan the product and it instantly recommends a cleaner alternative. For example, they have Simple Mills crackers, Lesser Eva popcorn and I love that I'm making better choices. Ready to make the switch? Head to thrivemarket.com slash pow for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. That's thrivemarket.com slash pow. Your content is amazing. They eat to glow recipes are my fave. What would you say are your key principles when it comes to skin and like what actually works?

Yeah, I mean, there's so many things. So it's like, okay, we'll get into it. Some things I feel like no matter what is happening with your own personal gut or hormones, like this can be helpful and beneficial for you. The number one thing that I would see when I did private coaching, stress is huge when it comes to skin and people often overlook that. So what I always recommend is having some stress management practices and it might sound silly and woo-woo, but just having those first 15 to 30 minutes of your day being phone-free, caffeine-free and taking a moment, whether it's legitimately petting Arnold for 10 minutes and just getting a serotonin boost or it's going on a silent walk or it's

stretching like whatever feels good to you. That moment of decompressing and starting your day on a more mellow note is going to be really helpful for your hormones and your skin. Yeah. As a mom, do you wake up before OD in order to get that time? I wake up at five. In order to like have your own moment? Yeah. Okay. I like that.

I want to give tips to any moms listening because I know I have a bunch. Yes. I mean, all you mamas out there, first of all, you're doing it. No matter what you're doing, you're incredible because it is truly the hardest job and the hardest job to balance, you know, having your own time to take care of yourself. But I will say, myself included, we spend way too much time on our phones. So if you had half of that time back, you could probably do all the wellness things that you wanted.

Okay, so stress one. Two is diet. And as Mari and I both experienced recently with cheese breakouts. Not the cheese. Not me ordering pizza at my house. I think it's the Gemini. I got it for the boys. What is wrong with us?

Every weekend I'm like, I could probably eat cheese now. No, still can't. Like what? No bitch, you can't. Because I have so many guests on the show who talk about the benefits of raw dairy and I'm like, let me dabble. But every time I break out. And we're all so bio individual.

So Mari and I are sensitive girlies. Super sensitive in every meaning of the word. We can't do anything fun. No, we can't, but there are consequences, including cheese. I love when we both show up at Pilates with breakouts and we're like, hey, cheese. Damn you. It's just so good. It's so good. I know. I will say cheese hack. Parmesan cheese, aged good parmesan cheese. Most of the lactose, which is, you know, potential to break you out is metabolized by bacteria. So you can get away with parmesan. I can get away with parmesan cheese. Yep. I had it actually last weekend and I think my breakouts are just

from micro needling right now. So I think you're right. So cheese hack. Cheese hack. But diet is so, so huge. Literally your skin is a reflection of what's happening inside your body. And the amount of inflammatory foods that we're eating unbeknownst to us, for the most part, we're crazy with labels after however many years of, you know, like stress and struggle. But the average pal girlie may not realize how much sugar is in her food, how much inflammatory oils are in her food, what the dairy, the gums, the additives, preservatives.

I mean, I cook like 95% of my food. That's how I keep my skin clear. And I know it's in it. How do we know if a product is actually non-pore clogging versus it's just marketing itself as clean? This is something I've been getting into recently too. Like this is very eye-opening for me. They're completely different things.

I mean, the hard thing is, is that there's no real certification for clean skincare like there is for organic. We don't know. It's a greenwashing marketing term. It's really about knowing the ingredients and what their potential high usage result is. So is it endocrine disrupting?

Is it causing cancer? Is it irritating your skin? And it is very, very challenging to distinguish product from product. Plus, what no one really knows is say we figure out, okay, phthalates are bad. Companies will then reformulate a chemical component and rename pretty much the same thing, a different jargony term, once consumers have found out what phthalates are. They'll come up with a new jargony name. So like, it's really impossible for you to know what's clean. Find your trusted sources, environmental working group, think dirty,

brands like Credo, and that's your first line of defense. And the second line of defense, if you're an acne prone girly, is to find either an influencer you trust to shop their recommendations, me, Emily, Mari and what she uses, brands that you trust, maybe it's ClearStem, maybe it's CocoKind, like those brands that don't use pork-logging ingredients, even though CocoKind does have some. So it really takes a little bit of research or you can just find your people and know that they're doing the research for you. You went through different stages of trying spironolactone, Accutane. I didn't try Accutane.

That was one thing. My dermatologist wanted me to do it as a last resort, but I knew I wanted to be a mother and just the potential infertility and, you know, the liver issues, I was not willing to deal with any of those side effects. Being a nurse, I actually read the information about the side effects and that was the one thing I didn't. So same, I never took Accutane. What would you say are the craziest side effects of Accutane?

I need to look again, because like right off the top of my head, but I know that it can really damage your liver. I know if you get pregnant, you can severely deform your fetus. I know it can sometimes kind of bring up autoimmune issues, skin issues as far as like really dry irritated red skin, skin that ages more prematurely because you have no oils. I mean, there's a laundry list of things that can potentially happen. And as we know from TikTok, Alex Earl four times on Accutane. It's not a solution that people claim that it is getting to the root cause of what's happening in your body. And really being consistent about your health is what clears your skin.

It's wild seeing the popularity of Accutane now because influencers are posting about it and it's tough to watch from our perspective because we've kind of been through the actual healing process and you have to be so patient and willing to put in the hard work and I feel like watching these young girls take the Accutane and drink on the Accutane and continuously do it, it's kind of watching like a car crash happen in slow motion. You know what I mean? And the sad thing is, is that there's not access

to resources to help people heal their skin, actually. Like the dermatologists out there that your insurance pays for are gonna prescribe you like they did with me and probably you, topical antibiotics, oral antibiotics, spironolactone, then to Accutane. And you can't blame the young girls because it's, that's all they have access to. I saw on TikTok something about mold and I was like, oh my gosh, that's what my skin looks like. Like these are my symptoms. And yes, and I asked my doctor to take a test and it was positive for Ochratoxin A.

That's exactly what I had. Exactly, and it sounds so terrifying and it really is terrifying. Dude, yeah, I feel like a zombie. I know, mold is such a weird thing too because it can keep popping up. Like we were just talking about before, you can do a cleanse and eat a certain way Mold is such a weird thing too, because it can keep popping up. We were just talking about before, you can do a cleanse and eat a certain way and it will go away.

But then you can be in a new environment or something will happen and it comes back. Like your immune system gets triggered or something. For example, I went to Costa Rica and out of nowhere my skin got so bad again All my symptoms came back like the candida was like roaring like wow. So you had candida too? Yeah Okay, I did as well. Uh-huh. So wild. Do you know what's weird? I have a theory What is that and guys this is not like a scientific theory like I have no idea what I'm talking about I just noticed a lot of girls with our coloring Get this type of acne.

And I've literally asked an expert, like, is it a fair skinned type of thing? Yeah. And apparently not. But I just do think that's interesting. This might be able to give you some more insight. I also got a genetic test and I have literally, like, what do you, oh my God, I'm blanking on the word. What? Genetic testing? A gene, I have, okay, it's a gene. I have a gene where my body has a hard time detoxing.

Oh, what's it called? It begins with an M. Yeah, it's something. It looks like the word motherfucker, but it's not. Do you know what I'm saying? Sounds about right. Yeah, yeah. Rightfully so.

It's the motherfucker gene, okay? And so. I think I have that as well where you can't detox. Yeah. And so my theory is that when I went into Costa Rica, there was a lot of pollutants in the air and just things my body wasn't used to. And same with when I moved to Nashville, this thing happened to me. My body just freaked out because it's like, whoa, like I'm from Northern California where

it's dry and it's not humid. And so I think, you know, when it's humid, all that bacteria and pollutants can float in the air a lot easier. And so that's what I think happened. And now I'm thinking when I moved to Austin, it's way more humid in Austin than LA. Perhaps that did the same thing to me. It's possible. I really appreciate you being transparent with even just showing your skin without makeup.

Like for someone like me, that's really, really powerful. Like I even have a hard time going on camera without makeup on. It's so hard. Yeah. It's really hard. I can't even really. I couldn't even go to the gym. I was like, I'm so embarrassed right now.

Same. And when you live such a healthy lifestyle and your skin doesn't represent that. Oh my gosh, it made me feel like a fraud online too because I like talk about all this health, but then here I am with like all these issues and I'm just like trying to figure it out. And you know, comments really don't bother me. I very rarely care, but I occasionally will see a comment on my podcast videos where my skin was bad, where they'll like point it out and be like, who is this girl talking about health with acne? That person, like a healed, happy person doesn't do that.

Like, it just really shows how upset they are about themselves because I feel like, at least what I notice with myself when I'm happy, I only have good things to say to people. I only have encouraging, uplifting words. But when I'm like a little upset, I definitely have some thoughts going through my head that I'm like, okay, like that's on me. Yeah, but acne really is, I think one of the biggest tests I've ever been through

in my life, because you need to start figuring out what you love about yourself outside of the way you look, which is such a reality check. It teaches you where you place your value too. I didn't realize how much I placed it in my looks. And when I, I was saying I got taken away from me, but when I was really insecure about it, it made me realize, oh wow, I do think about it that much. Maybe I do need to take a step back and not be so vain and focus on the other areas.

It got so bad to where I'd be at the grocery store and I couldn't even look the cashier in the face, I couldn't even give him a smile. I'm like, it's starting to affect how I treat other people. And that's when I was like, whoa, this, maybe this is a problem I need to work on. And maybe my acne will go away when I can fix that. Like, who knows? Maybe it's like spiritual like that. Maybe the second you accept it is when you begin to heal. People have told me that. It's always a battle with me. Like some. I feel good about it. So I don't But I've been there where I can't even look people in the eye. I feel like it's all they see

Yeah living in LA for me was really hard. I mean for a lot of it. I was on sprunolactone Did you ever take that? You know, I took it like for a little bit and it messed up with my periods and it made me I think lose my Period then have it twice in a month. And so like when it did that I was like whoa good for you getting off after like a month and then I even tried the topical mm still made my periods where I'm so sensitive yeah I mean honestly a blessing because it's become so normalized but you can't to me if it's something you can't be on while you're pregnant why would you take it yes exactly you know how was it safe for me if it's something you can't be on while you're pregnant, why would you take it? Yes, exactly.

How is it safe for me? Right, it's not. And people are just taking it like it's casual. And then there's a whole Accutane craze right now on TikTok. I know. Everyone's like, have you tried Accutane? I'm like, babe. Same, and I'm like, it's not gonna happen, okay?

Like literally never. It's the one thing I've never done. Yeah. I will do just about anything for my acne and not Accutane. Like I'm currently taking kidney. Like I swallow chunks of kidney every day. Of like beef kidney or something. Oh my God. I did that with liver.

I know you did. How was that? I mean, it's fine. I take it with like orange juice. You still do it. I mean, not really because I don't like cutting it up and... I know. I have Greg do it for me. Yeah. Michael doesn't care enough to do it like not about me taking it. Sorry, that's kind of so wrong. But he used to get to but he like doesn't think there's enough of a benefit to continue

taking it. Yeah. And so I think that he doesn't want to cut it up. Got it. Yeah, that was my thought too, with the liver. But I also think so here is a theory that I heard. I have completely cut out dairy and gluten for my skin, but I've also, in doing that, I'm not getting enough vitamin A, and I think organs are really high in vitamin A.

Yeah, interesting. So I feel like, and that's what makes up Accutane is synthetic vitamin A. Right. Kidneys are really disgusting. Like it's bright red. Oh gosh. I know. How do you eat it?

I just do the same thing as you. I have a chunk. I freeze it. Yeah. It's basically like taking a pill. Do you freeze it? Is it not like... No, freezing is way better.

Really? Because I feel like if it's like slimy, it can just go down. I know. I know. No, no, no, no, no. That honestly makes me want to throw up. If it's hard, it's like a capsule to me.

Really? How small do you cut that? But I do think it's a little bit stuck. Yeah, exactly. Are you continuing? No. I know I stopped for a while, but I'm back. Do you notice the difference? I've only been doing it for three days.

Okay. TV team. Do you bring it here? I was like, should I bring it in my little lunchbox? Like I do travel with a lunchbox, but it's just too disgusting. But when I get home, I also do, I mean, I've done just about everything at this point for my skin. I do glutathione shots in my butt every week.

That's been helpful. Shots, like an actual shot. An actual injection because glutathione is best absorbed through an injection. I take that in the powder bits like a capsule for my doctor. Yeah. Injections are good too. I know. No, it's insane. My whole life revolves around my skin. There's also these peptides. I don't know much about peptides. So just my personal experience. I'm taking LL37, which is actually for mold.

No. Yeah. And it helps your body detox. And I don't know if it's helped really. Like my symptoms have gotten better. I haven't taken another test to see like what it's done. But LL37, I've done BPC157. That one really, like my knees, sometimes I'll have like knee aches from working out

and I take that and the next day, literally gone. Like it's fine. Wow. Yeah. Insane. That one's a big difference. People love BPC 157. Epithalon is good for fertility, apparently. Are you taking it?

I did for a little bit. I'm on so much stuff. It's crazy. I take so many supplements. I know. I feel like I do, too. Yeah. I show it sometimes online and people are like, are you? No, I think I saw one of yours. It was nice.

It was nice. Like, are you good? I'm like, I'm just trying to heal my skin. How do you handle makeup? Like, do you use certain clean makeup? Honestly, I don't really even wear that makeup, much makeup day to day unless I'm like filming. But I just use the Luminous Silk and I think, I don't know if it breaks me out to be honest, because I used to wear it when I had no breakouts and I was like, fine.

But I heard, I actually heard on your podcast that they changed the formula to it. And so I was wondering like, oh, maybe that's why. Oh, not you remembering a fact that I didn't even know from my podcast. Yeah. Wow. I was like studying that. I had like my browser up like. The clear stem one?

Yeah. Yeah, those girls are great Yeah, really good. Yeah, really really good. I use um Illumina, I get it on Amazon and it's like the non-porcelo I use all non-porcelo making makeup, right? Still not working. But anyways, right cuz I use it like Ilya or whatever. Yeah Yeah, I aren't they supposed to be clean and like not apparently not anymore. Makes me break out really bad. Same. Yeah. Same. Which is a bummer because it has like the zinc sunscreen. That's like better for you. None of us are safe. Like what the hell. If you're anything like me, you try to get in as much water as possible, but we can't

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pow or use code power. Checkout. That's F-i-a wellness.com forward slash pow for 20% off your first order. You'll thank me later. You guys know that fitness and well-being, nutrition are all such important parts of my life, but I really think there's a way to do it and keep it fun. I think eating and socializing should be enjoyable. We should be able to eat chips And so many of them are made with seed oils, artificial flavours and preservatives, but masa chips are made with three ingredients, organic, nixtamalised corn, grass-fed beef tallow and Redmond sea salt. No seed oils, no weird additives, just real food that actually supports your body. I actually had friends over for a taco night this past week and I put out masa chips and guacamole

and they were literally gone before we started eating. So they are really freaking good. I have so many in my pantry. It's just a great snack to grab for and you know and trust that you're getting good ingredients in your body. I don't think you have to eliminate chips, but I think there's a way to do it and use good ingredients. Plus, I feel like when I eat things with bad ingredients in them, I just feel sluggish the next day. Masa is a better option that doesn't leave me feeling bloated or sluggish. And I like eating in a way that's balanced and sustainable. Eat them with guac or a protein packed meal with a salad. There's so many ways to eat them and style them with your diet. If you want to try Masa for yourself, head to www.masachips.com forward slash discount

forward slash Mari20 and use my code Mari20 for 20% off your order, M-A-R-I-20. Trust me, you'll never go back to regular chips again. I wanna talk about poor clogging ingredients. I feel like this topic is really popping off right now in skincare, in makeup. We're kind of all realizing as a society, and you guys knew this already, but clean doesn't always mean actually clean. It's like a marketing term, right? So talk to us about what poor clogging ingredients are and where should we be like looking out for them?

I love this question. So we're the ones making this topic pop up. We don't shut up about it. We're the reason. So I love that you're mentioning this clean does not mean acne safe. It just flat out does not mean acne safe and people get duped by this all the time because you know in our head we think clean and yeah that should mean free of pore cloggers but it doesn't. It means free of like endocrine disruptors and toxins and things like that that are also very important to eliminate but it doesn't have anything to do with acne.

You can have the cleanest routine ever and be using things that have like organic shea butter and shaman-blessed coconut oil. It's still going to break you out because it is thicker than our natural oil and that's as simple as we need to be thinking about it. So pork-clucking ingredients. So acne is both internal and external. Anyone who tells you differently does not know what they are talking about. So internal, we touched on and we really dove into it on episode one, but external

is where people really need to have that crucial attention to detail, and we made that simple for them. So when you are using a product topically and it has any filler agent that is thicker than your natural oil, it can clog your pore, and you will break out relentlessly forever, even if you're doing everything else right. So eliminating these is the crucial step one. You copy and paste the ingredients into the ingredient checker that we designed on our

website. Hit enter. It'll tell you in red if there's a pore clogger. This is the number one thing you do before you change anything else. Before you change your diet or go eliminating anything, check your makeup, your hair care, your all skin care for pore cloggers because you will find culprits in there and that's the first thing to eliminate and replace. And everyone listening, I know this feels like a task and it is a task, but it is so

worth doing. Like sitting there and putting everything in. I probably should go back and do mine again because I didn't use your guys's the first time. I think I used more of a vague one and I think I need to go back and really check, but I always use clear stem and I love and trust your guys's brand. My husband's mom uses it now, which I absolutely love. She was like, what is that orange bottle you're always using? And I'm like, oh my God, it's a clear stem cleanser, obviously. But anyway, I really think it's super important. What does, what do pore clogging ingredients do other than give us acne?

They create dullness in the skin and they prevent the skin from being able to quote breathe. So even if you don't have acne and you just want to age well because clear stem is equally anti-aging and anti-acne. That's why we talk about this so much because even if your concern is just primarily anti-aging and anti-acne. That's why we talk about this so much. Because even if your concern is just primarily anti-aging, if you're using things that are kind of weighing in your pores and taking up too much space and interfering with sweating and interfering with other nutrient absorption

from your other skincare, it's going to have a negative impact on how you age. So letting your skin keep it as breathable as possible, just think of it that way. And eliminating things like coconut oil, for example. It's extremely thick. It's a wax at room temperature. It doesn't go in your pores. For some people, it's their holy grail for like maybe like 10, 15 percent of the population.

For the rest of us, it's just not the best thing, right? So eliminating those can help your skin do its own natural processes better and allow for better absorption of everything else you're using like anti-aging ingredients such as peptides, right? You want those to have full access to your skin and be able to penetrate as much as possible. So removing the things that are too thick will help for better penetration of the good stuff. What I love about your guys's brand, what I love about Clear Stem is the fact that you have both struggled with acne and I always say this, but I don't trust anyone's advice

if they haven't had acne. Oh yeah. If you haven't gone through, I won't even hire anyone at the clinic who hasn't gone through it. Wow. Hard stop. So I went and got this facial and I was just going for more lymphatic work, buccal massage, all of those things. And, you know, I was

trying to be cool and relaxed and not like hyper check every single product she was using on my face. I asked her ahead of time, is there anything with pork clog ingredients? I listed off some of them. She's like, no, no, no. Like, okay. And normally I grab the bottle and I look and I'm like, I'm just, I'm going to be a cool girl today. It's like, as you're talking about, like eating the RX bars and you're like, I'm just going to relax. I'm a normal girl today. So it's just being chill relax I end up breaking out so bad from that facial come to find out the exfoliating mask She used had shea butter in it

So like my skin's being exfoliated and cleaned out and then shea butter driven so deep into my pore because exfoliation Something another topical cream. She had shea butter and I'm like, oh So I end up having like five cystic ones exfoliation, something, another topical cream she had shea butter and I'm like, oh. So I ended up having like five cystic ones. This was like three weeks ago around my cheeks. And I was like, I haven't dealt with that in a while because I am so hyper aware of everything causing acne. But I just go right, I went right back into the mindset.

I'm like, all right, instead of getting really down about this, I'm going to put myself on a protocol. And that was more external because this one wasn't caused from internal. So I did our exfoliating mask. I did our little diamond buff tool. I like buffed around it. And then I did our sulfur spot mask, which I hadn't got because we just launched our sulfur spot mask a few months ago. So I hadn't gotten to try it on my skin while I was actively breaking out I tried it when I didn't have acne and oh my gosh Danielle Danielle whip this up in the lab It's insane. I I was showing this on stories and I'm like, I know I'm biased like we created this product

But like oh my god, I'm like shocked by my own product that we have Because I got so I have really fair skin and so I can have Pigmentation left over from acne for weeks and weeks and weeks. And I use the sulfur spot mask two or three days in a row and then so many pumps of cell renew because cell renew can help a lot with the pigmentation and I got my cyst to flatten in two days and All the pigmentation was gone within a week. I was was like, what? Okay, so that's the hack. That's the hack.

And so it's like, you have your internal and your external protocol. We talked about the internal one. It's like, all right, gotta whip it into shape for a few days for a week. Let me get everything back in shape. And then same with external. Like if you break out from pork-clawing ingredients,

you have your little protocol. And I was like, I'm not gonna get down about this. I'm just gonna get right to the protocol. I'm gonna zap these and we're going to be done. So it felt good having the confidence of knowledge in that of like, this sucks. I don't want to have to deal with these, but I'm going to, I'm going to get rid of these. Do you sleep in the sulfur treatment? You can.

So it's a spot and mask and you can use it a lot of different ways. Um, so you can treat, I love to tell people, you can treat different areas of your face wildly differently. Like your forehead is the most perfect patch of skin I've ever seen, right? Thanks babe. But you have the zone, your hot zone is what I call it, right? So you can, if you're chilling at home, you can just leave that on, that zone, all day and then have a moisturizing mask on your forehead or an eye patch mask on.

Like your different zones of your face should be treated accordingly. So you can leave the mask on proactively for like, say like 30 minutes. Think of it like a clay mask on steroids, right? So you can do that for 30 minutes and then rinse it off and then continue with your normal routine. Or you can leave it just on spots, layer your makeup over it.

Or you can leave it on overnight. Like a lot of people just break out right on their jawline. You can do your whole skincare routine and then just leave the spot mask on your entire jaw overnight. And that's awesome. So play around with it. We want everyone to become their own personal esthetician

and test things out and really learn like, oh, I can do two layers of this and my skin loves it, or I should do my clarity every other night. That's my perfect, you know, my perfect regimen. So yeah, there's different ways to use everything. And the mask is extremely versatile. Okay, I love that. I'm definitely gonna do that

because I am such a like, here down type of person. A lot of people are. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That makes me feel better. So I asked the girls if they had questions for you. And I saw a couple things keep popping up. Retinoid. I feel like it's a huge topic on TikTok. What's the view on retinoids? They're all different. I mean, if you got like a really low strength,

you know, let's call it a vitamin A appropriate, like a more gentle one. And it's in a formula that is, you know, also has some calming ingredients. It might make you purge a little bit, but you might like the benefits, right? Pretty much all retinols are going to make you purge, by the way. Is purging good? It depends. So when we're purging in a detox, like an internal detox scenario, yeah, it's coming out one way or another and we're forcing it out. And if you're acne prone, it's going to come out through your skin versus like, say you

were purging, you're doing a cleanse protocol, but you were really prone to anxiety, it would show up as anxiety, right? So in that context, yes, it is part of a means to an end. Purging in skincare is sometimes necessary, sometimes not. So back to the types of retinol. So if you're using one that's gentle and it's appropriate for your skin, you might get a little bit of a purge and it might go away for you if you're not that acne prone. Great. You're one of the lucky ones.

If you go and use one of the prescription ones, the prescription retin-air, prescription tretinoin, those are known to create nasty purges. And there's two different kinds of it. One's a gel, one's a cream. The cream white one usually has an ingredient called isopropyl meristate, which is like one of the worst

pore clogging fillers that exists. So what I have seen in my 10 years of doing this and my own personal experience, right, when people start using that one they get a nasty purge, their skin is very red and irritated, and the purge never stops because their pores are getting refilled with the filler agent that that thing is made of. It gives me so much anxiety. It's crazy. It's interesting when we talk about it and we post on Instagram and there's reels about it. We have a lot of people in the comments that are like thank you so much for saying this. I couldn't use any types of retinols. I couldn't use the prescription version. I didn't know what was wrong with me

because my best friend could use it but I couldn't and I tried to stick it out through the purge but it just crushed me. It crushed my mental health and it just did not work for me. I thought something was wrong with me. Thank you for saying this. Like this changed my life. And then there's a whole other grouping of people that are honestly kind of nasty in the comments. If I'm, if I'm being retinol warriors, they're literally retinol warriors and

they are so mean, so nasty in the comments that we are simply educating about both sides of the story. It's like there are people that cannot use it the same way. Like there's some people who are highly allergic to vitamin C. There's some people that are like there's very specific ingredients that some people just cannot use for their skin and that's back to bio individuality. But when you're talking about poor cloggers, like the acne community is not going to be able to use those products that contain it.

But it's just been interesting to see how activated and angry people get when we speak out against prescription retinols. In reality, we're just speaking to the people that want to feel heard. That are like, I've tried this and it destroyed my skin, it destroyed my mental health. I never stopped purging. We don't want them to feel alone and we don't want them to feel bullied into, oh no, you just didn't use it right or you didn't use it for long enough. It's like, no, it didn't work for their skin.

They didn't like it. It destroyed their skin. And so we want to make those people feel seen and heard in their own experience. Yeah. And a lot of, you know, we, it's not like us versus the dermatologists, right? Like we don't want to be positioned that way, but dermatologists have a very specific set of playbooks and a very limited set of tools that they're able to use. Antibiotics, birth control, spironolactone, topical retinols. There's some other stuff mixed in, but those are the big ones, right?

And then Accutane when all of those fail. So those are the people that vehemently defend the status quo because those are the only tools they have. They literally can't go over your products with you. They don't have time in the appointment. They're not trained on nutrition for acne. The average MD gets about 19 hours of nutritional education in their entire career. And it's all about contraindications for prescriptions, like don't have grapefruit if you're on statins, like that kind of thing. It's not anti-inflammatory eating. It's not egg white sensitivity for a certain part of the population affecting their lymphatic

system. None of that gets talked about. So, there's just a lot of people get so activated because the information is pretty siloed depending on what angle you're coming at this from. And we just like to explain to people why they might be having a certain experience. So important. And I think when these trends pick up on TikTok, it spreads like wildfire and you almost feel like, oh, I haven't tried that. Like, is that something I need to try? And as an acne prone gal, I see these things and get tempted, but most of the time I don't react well.

So I appreciate you guys speaking to that. On the topic of purging, something that I've found that makes me purge really bad that I wanted to pick your guys' brain about is microneedling. And I know it's so beneficial. Is it worth doing if it's making me break out this bad? You're not supposed to do microneedling. So I love that question and I'm sorry you're having the experience.

I actually just got micro-needled two days ago and I pushed the appointment because I was having a little bit of breakout from a makeup that I got done during a photo shoot. It was breaking me out a little bit. So I actually pushed the appointment. If you are past the breaking out stage or you're in a stage where you're not really breaking out,

then micro-needling is fantastic. If you're still in the throes of a breakout cycle, hold off. I've microneedled people for years and what I'll do is, because I'm an acne specialist, right? Almost everyone's having some sort of issue with acne. What I'll do is I can go around the area and I'll just treat that area with a little bit of peel. But I won't touch the area that's actively breaking out. Like you could do your forehead and your cheeks and be totally fine.

I highly doubt you'd purge there, but if it's in your hot zone, you're going to purge. Okay. I did it when I wasn't breaking out. Really? Yeah. What did they put on after you? After it, sorry. What did they put on?

Because the balm that they give me, I throw it away. It was called, it had some scientific name, not isotope. It was like, it was- Do you want to, for your audience, let's look up the ingredients to that balm and see if that's what was actually causing it? It was like a liquidy. She said it was great for healing. I mean, potentially you're right.

Do you recommend doing nothing after? So we use our Cell Renew serum. Our Cell Renew serum is actually so gentle that it can be used as a microneedling solution. So I just use a ton of that and then that and I do with PRP and the good places will send you home with a little to go vial of your PRP. So the first two nights I'm just doing Selvarnoo and the PRP and then after that I'm just doing our hydrating products. If you need a balm, which you should have that

if you're doing a laser treatment or your skin's really compromised, Aquafor is actually okay for very acute situations and it won't break you out. Okay, PRP is blood. It's where they take your blood, they spin it, and they get the platelet-rich fibrin or platelet-rich plasma, the PRF and PRP.

But yeah, it's basically from your own blood. Okay, because I've never been given PRP. Oh. So I wonder if I'm going. I think you would like that. Yeah. I know. I now won't do microneedling unless it's PRP

because with how pricey it is, you get more of a benefit from PRP than you do just an average hyaluronic acid solution. Yeah, it kickstarts the healing response that you're ultimately banking on. You know, all of these treatments, you're doing a controlled inflammation technique to get the healing response. Like you inflame yourself at a four, you heal at an eight, you net the four.

Does that make sense? Right? So a lot of times where these go wrong is you're not amplifying the healing process directly after. And the 48 hours post any procedure is crucial. Crucial, right? So having a practitioner who really understands your skin and can help make sure that that window is optimized

right after the treatment, that's the fun thing to really dial in. And PRP is a big part of that. OK, so next time I go, I will get the PRP. Yes. And SPF is so, so important in all the day. I mean, always. It's important every day, but especially in those following days after a PRP.

And if they send you, microneedling, if they send you home with one, make sure that you are quadruple checking those ingredients because 99% of the time, SPFs are going to have pore cloggers in them. So, I mean, we have our UR Sunshine, we have our Sunnyside, you can use those, but any non-pore clogging SPF is fine.

That is a mineral, not a chemical based sunscreen. So you wanna be looking for zinc, no pore cloggers, and that's gonna be your safety sunscreen for after. You're pretty much not gonna find that anywhere but us. Just get you our sunshine. It's the best sunscreen ever made. I use you our sunshine every single day. It's the best.

I made it to be the best. I don't leave the house without it on. I also use it when I'm going to an early morning workout and it has a little bit of a tint and it just makes me feel like a little cuter than- Yeah, for sure. Oh, you know what you can do too? Mix a little bit of your makeup in there.

I use loose powder and I have some liquids. You can mix both in there and make your own little custom CC cream. Boom, done. It's the best. Oh, it really is the best. It's like one of my top three products from you guys. I love that. The Lips and Cutes, the Gentle Cleanser and the UR Sunshine.

All so healing. So restoring for the skin. Obsessed. Do you guys have any makeup brands that you would recommend that are non pore clogging? Yes. Our OG from the very beginning is Priya. Okay. I just placed a very large Priya order. Yeah, you're the color warm beige. Oh, I think I got warm beige. It's going to look perfect on you. It's going to look so maybe a little bit of caramel sprinkled in there for like if you have self-tanner on. Yeah, to help balance it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. We are obsessed. And that's spelled P-R-I-I-A. Yes, and you can't, she's a small women-owned business, but she's an acne specialist who follows the exact same ethos. Oh my God, I love that. Yeah. So she's not going to reformulate with nasty stuff because that's what happens all the time.

I'll recommend a brand. It's fine. And then it's not fine anymore. Armani Luminous Silk used to be safe and there's an ingredient in it that's called Hexyl-Lor-A and it's popping up more and more on poor clogging lists. And if you're super acne prone like I am, it does clog me up a little bit. Most other people are fine with it.

So there's always a scale. It's never 100% yes or 100% no most of the time, but Priya is 100% safe. Yes. I've also, we found two others that are more in the liquid form that I've been trying out. I've tried Euphoria, Youthphoria. I just ordered that too. Yeah, I've been trying out. I've tried Euphoria, Youthphoria. I just ordered that too.

Yeah, I've been trying Youthphoria, which is a great liquid. And then one I've really been loving, it's by the company called Make Beauty. And it's very specifically their Dew Skin Tint. Again, with Priya, every single thing she sells is always acne safe. A lot of these other brands were time out.

We have to pick and choose what products and they could potentially reformulate one day. So always triple check. But I've been loving the Make Beauty one and that's the one I've actually been mixing into my You Are Sunshine to create this like glowy seamless foundation that I've been absolutely loving and then, but Priya, it's, I know we're like talking about it so much, but they have these calming ingredients in it and your skin just radiates truly when you wear it. Yeah, you can go to bed with a full face of Priya makeup and wake up better the next day. Thank you for joining us on the Pursuit of Wellness podcast. To support this show, please

rate and review and share with your loved ones. If you want to be reminded of new episodes, click the subscribe button on your preferred podcast or video player. You can sign up for my newsletter to receive my favourites at marielawellen.com, it will be linked in the show notes. This podcast is a Pursuit Network production brought to you by Michaela Phillips, Joel Contartese, Davielle Waldner, Jen Lauren, and Mackenzie Maisel. You can also watch the full video of each episode on our YouTube channel at Pursuit of Wellness podcast. Love you, Power Girls and Power Boys.

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