Python Bytes - #425 If You Were a Klingon Programmer

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. This is episode 425 recorded March 24th 2025. I am Brian Ocken. And I'm Michael Kennedy. We are excited to announce that this episode is brought to you by PositConnect. Listen to their segment later in the show. You can also connect with us and if you go to our show notes and visit all the links, we're on Blue Sky and Mastodon mostly lately. And if you'd like to actually, thank you for listening,

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Starting point is 00:00:58 What do you got for us today, Michael? I want to kick off with a Twitter thread of all things and this one's pretty interesting. So Armin Roeniger, original creator of Flask, put out a question and it got a lot more attract, a lot more attention than I would imagine it justified and I just, I found it, it's so simple and I just found it pretty interesting. Okay, the question is If you use Python, but you don't use UV why you don't use it yet? Why right so I got like 215 responses almost a thousand likes things like that So I want to just call out some of I'm not gonna go read all 215 top level, he says I'm gonna call out some

Starting point is 00:01:46 of the ones that I thought were interesting. And just get your thoughts, Brian, as well. So for example, some of the someone said, I'm not gonna also give attributes because there's a bunch, it'll take forever. So someone said, I get it replaces pip and pi e and v, but should I use it instead of the built-in Python dash M, V and V, V and V, right? Yes. Yes, yes you should. Yes, yes you should also do that. The reason I'm calling this out,

Starting point is 00:02:13 the reason I'm making this a topic, is there were a lot of, I think a lot of misconceptions, or a lot of people are like, what's UV? So I think those are worth touching on. So what are the awesome things about using UV, V, E and V instead of Python, like, what's UV? So I think those are worth touching on. So what are the awesome things about using UV, VENV, instead of Python, VENV is, well, what if you don't have Python?

Starting point is 00:02:32 Python, VENV will just say error, no Python, right? UV says, oh, well, why don't we just get you the latest version of Python? Or you can say 3.12 or 3.11 or whatever version you want or a specific minor version right or build version you write 313 one instead of 313 two whatever right so it frees you from even having to worry about having Python set up I got two new computers Brian two new computers I got a new laptop and a

Starting point is 00:02:59 new Mac mini and I have not installed Python on it and I'm actually was a little bit bugged when something I had to brew not installed Python on it and I'm actually was a little bit bugged when Something I had to brew install installed Python. I'm like darn it. You're messing up my flow, right? I don't want any Python in here other than virtual environments And I want those to be managed by UV and the thing is it's two seconds like with Pi ENV what it does is it downloads and it builds locally, which if you don't have it, can take 10 minutes or more. With UV, it takes two seconds, right?

Starting point is 00:03:30 It's a thing of beauty. Well, I just ran into the build, a problem with the build recently, because there's issues, especially on Windows, when if you've got your dependencies mucked up somehow, it can cause you to have to recompile some stuff or try to recompile some stuff. And then you have to make sure

Starting point is 00:03:52 that you have the right compiler libraries on your computer and stuff like that. So that's a mess. Someone says, but I need Python installed to make Python programs? I don't know, yes, but see previous comment. But I mean, it is installing it, using UV to install. Like, it isn't installing it like you normally think,

Starting point is 00:04:10 but behind the scenes UV is putting it on your computer. This is an interesting one. I wanna hear your thoughts on this. I'm anti this only because of my workflow, not against the person who made the comment, because I don't use it because it places the V and V folder inside of your project and I can't run executables from there due to corporate policy many such use cases no idea why astral doesn't address this with more urgency and someone responded that

Starting point is 00:04:38 sounds like a bad corporate policy also it does you can configure it to do that yeah exactly there's an environment variable you can set to have it put it in somewhere else. Now, one of the things that made me never ever adopt Conda is if you would go and create a Conda environment for a data science project, it puts it into some hidden folder, centralized hidden folder inside of your profile instead of inside your project.

Starting point is 00:05:01 So I would go to a project and I'm like, did I, a couple months later, and be like, did I, you know, a couple months later, and be like, did I ever make a virtual environment for this, maybe? But then you gotta say, conda activate, name the virtual environment. I'm like, but what did I call it? You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:05:14 You're like, oh, drives me crazy. And with it being inside the project folder, you can look up, yep, there's a virtual environment there. I'm good to go. Same reason that I don't like calling mine.vnv, I just leave it without the dot, because I can quickly see in the Finder or a regular LS or whatever,

Starting point is 00:05:30 that hey look, it does have a virtual environment. All right, I'm too lazy to switch from py env and pip. I mean. It seems like a you problem. There's lazy like, I'm not gonna walk two miles to the store, and then there's, I can't be bothered to put the word UV space PIP instead of PIP in my command.

Starting point is 00:05:50 Well, in like, I'm lazy. That's why I am using UV because it's, it speeds up everything and I can get on my day faster. Yeah. Matthew Rocklin of Dask and Coiled had a really interesting comment once on TalkBython that basically like so much in programming happens because we're Leveraging the natural inclination for programmers to be lazy. Let's set it up so they could do this So they have to do less work and do it. All right I'll keep going quicker now. Trust issues. What if they do a bait and switch, right? It's VC backed

Starting point is 00:06:21 What if they go oh all of a sudden two comments there one it's VC backed what if our business model does not hinge upon charging for UV. It's kind of an open core model. Okay. But Google used to say, don't be evil. So, yeah. Yeah. Brian, I totally hear you. But did you look when they said it, like around their back, they had their fingers crossed. Look, I'm just telling you,

Starting point is 00:06:58 you got to double check these things. And no, I'm just kidding. I know they did. Actually, yeah. And when VCs get involved and it's all well and good when there's lots of money things get tight then it could good potential well it also won't switch to something else then we'll switch to UV fairly quickly if if it becomes bad we'll switch yeah we'll switch to VU something so I have a reason but when you when you run out of

Starting point is 00:07:20 good reasons all right another one masochism I haven't switched yet because I like I'm masochistic. Another one, many times I've tried similar tools and always come back to pip and pip tools, aka pip compile, those, they just work. I don't want something cool, I know, but adding the word UV in front of each of these commands, like UV pip compile, UV pip install,

Starting point is 00:07:42 it's not a huge risk to roll that back. Delete your characters. You can do it. And we've tried the other ones also and they were not as fun. Exactly. I tried this week and was expecting UV install requests instead of UV add.

Starting point is 00:07:54 And I brought this one up. I switched back to pip envy. I thought that was interesting because there's sort of two workflows with UV. One says, treat it like poetry or hatch and let it manage a project and that's the UV add style right manages the lock file and so on. They were expecting UV install requests. If they typed UV pip install requests

Starting point is 00:08:15 they would have been carrying on with the regular workflow and I do think it's worth shouting out that there's like two unrelated workflows for projects. And one is sort of the project manager poetry hatch style. And one is the more low level pip style. Yeah. Yeah. OK. But the UV is like you can kind of flow between the styles and it all just works.

Starting point is 00:08:40 Whereas in the other one, you kind of had to buy into it or not. Yeah, it's all or nothing, yeah. Another one really quick. We partially use it. We will transition when Dependabot support is available. See previous comment. If you say UV pip install and UV pip compile

Starting point is 00:08:57 and use the requirements.txt file compiled by UV, you've got Dependabot support. For me, Dependabot support is a net negative. I hate Dependabot so much. I've tried to turn it off on some of my projects and I can't get it turned off without turning off all the security features at GitHub. So I just had to set up mail rules that say,

Starting point is 00:09:16 delete anything from Dependabot that says bump. Bump this thing. Because I would wake up on Monday and I'd have probably 25, 30 separate messages from Dependabot saying, hey, guess what? You got an update for this, you got an update for that. Like, oh, Dependabot, please stop doing this. And if they would just go, your project has 17 updates.

Starting point is 00:09:35 Okay, that would be kind of helpful. 17 times your project has an update is not helpful. That said, if you use UV space pip compile and requires.txt, you have dependable support. All right, last thought, I'll leave it with this one from Jared Sheal, seeing a whole lot of Stockholm syndrome in the replies to this question. Okay, interesting.

Starting point is 00:09:54 A lot of people were sort of, you know, they were tied to the things that were not working well, or they were tied to the things like, well, this is how we do it, and I know it sucks, it's not better, but this is how we do it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, the one thing that I would like to,

Starting point is 00:10:08 okay, there's a reason that you really get a lot of the benefit of UV if you globally install it, you do the curl install or something, right? That is, and also using, having, letting it install Python for you. With all the other Python dependencies, you can use your own custom, like a custom PyPI, like your own in-house PyPI. With that part, the curl install and the, the installing the binaries, Python binaries, I don't know if you can do that. So I think that

Starting point is 00:10:44 that still might be a decent reason is because you're using a firewall in a company and that part isn't working right. But you can still pip install UV and I have done time tests and it's still faster to use UV even if you pip install it. So you just don't get all the benefits. Yeah, absolutely awesome.

Starting point is 00:11:03 Yeah, you gotta already have a project you can't start. You gotta have Python, you gotta have a VNV, and then you go from there. Yeah, anyway. Which is fine, because mostly that's what you're doing with life. You're not constantly creating a project. I love our audience and Henry Schreiner.

Starting point is 00:11:16 Hey, Henry, just shout it out. Dependabot just added support last week for UV Lock. How about that? So do you know how out of date that Twitter thread is? So last week. So last week for UV lock about that. So do you know how out of date that Twitter thread is? So last week. So last week. Well, and also the lot of the knowledgeable people probably didn't respond because it's on X.

Starting point is 00:11:34 Yeah, that's true. Well, I mean, there's, it's a surprisingly amount of surprising amount of interaction over there for what it is. Okay, over to you. Okay, let's talk about UV a little bit. All right, we haven't even done that yet. So I wanna talk about this cool project from Tim Hopper. Love Tim, kind of miss seeing him. He's one of the fellows that I used to run into

Starting point is 00:11:59 at conferences all the time and haven't been to conferences lately, so hi Tim. Anyway, he put out the Python Developer Tooling Handbook and it's a in progress thing but he's been working on it for a while. Yeah, Tim Hopper, great guy. Anyway, the Python Developer Tooling Handbook and it's walking through a lot of the,

Starting point is 00:12:22 basically the new models for doing things. There's, I don't know, it says that, I guess he does comment on a lot of these things. UV, poetry, flit, sub tools, hatch. But I was noticing right away he's doing tutorials and how-tos and explanations and kind of a cool and then some references and kind of a cool way to to set up some documentation. But like let's say publish your first Python package or let's do a create your first Python project and instead of doing a lot of the history he's just popping to you to the right answer. It's a UV init and mean, actually a lot of the other init,

Starting point is 00:13:07 like initializing projects, I haven't liked before, even like the FLIT init, I didn't like, but UVInit is pretty darn good. They're doing a good job. And anyway, so using and then adding dependencies, and I love this, like let's skip the, all the, well you could do it nine different ways. Just tell me the way to do it.

Starting point is 00:13:27 Or at least a way. It's opinionated, but it's a good opinion. And publishing your first package, talking about setting it up. Anyway, a cool resource. I hope to see it grow a lot. So anyway, I like it. Encourages people to test.

Starting point is 00:13:44 It encourages people to use testPyPI first before they go somewhere else. Although be careful because there's a lot of projects that don't use testPyPI, and they clean that one out every once in a while. So even if a package is available on the testPyPI, it might not be available on the big PyPI. So yeah, yeah. So you're like, oh, it uploaded.

Starting point is 00:14:07 So that means there's no name conflict. Like no, no, no. Search PyPI. Yeah. But one of the things I wanted to bring up also is, let's see, right at the top, it says this is not a book about programming Python. Instead, the goal of this book is to help you understand the ecosystem of tools used to make Python development easier and more productive.

Starting point is 00:14:29 So it's gonna grow. I commented about some of the testing already and he said he's gonna add some stuff about testing as well. He said the handbook is structured according to the DIA taxes framework, which okay, I didn't know anything about this. Tutorial, how framework, which, okay, didn't know anything about this tutorial, how to, explanation, and reference.

Starting point is 00:14:48 So I'm not gonna link to it, but there's a link here on his project about it. And I'm gonna have to read more about this. This is interesting. I've never heard about this. I had not heard of it either, but it does look interesting. Anyway, and some great information about setting up, setting up rough to check your code and things like

Starting point is 00:15:07 that. So I've been so excited about UVVNV and UVPIP and stuff like that that I kind of forget that I'm using UV rough all the time, or using rough all the time also. And it's kind of bundled into there. So I'm curious, while we're talking, like kind of transition to rough for a second. I was listening to that interview you did Recently were you talking about I think you'd interviewed Charlie recently And I there's I like I like how detailed rough can be But this is one of the things that I think I'm I'm

Starting point is 00:15:41 Rough can you can go in the PI project Toml or there's Ruff Toml also now. And I kinda like, I think I might transition to using the Ruff Toml or try to because I end up having like a decent amount of tweaking the rules a little bit. And I'm not really tweaking the project, I'm just tweaking the linting rules. So are you using, do you use rough

Starting point is 00:16:05 and where do you put your rules? I love rough and I'm all about the rough.toml. Yeah, it definitely takes more than a page of small font on my screen. And I don't wanna, you know, you could reasonably have a PyProject.toml that's smaller than the rough.toml. So, you know, I don't wanna put those together.

Starting point is 00:16:22 Yeah, and I loved the Charlie's comment about the rules of, even he doesn't turn them all on, that would be silly. So I tried it. I tried turning all the rules on and there's some rules that are inconsiderate. There's like two or three rules that are conflict with other rules. So you have to decide, you know, if you turn them all on,

Starting point is 00:16:42 there's actually a built-in conflict because a couple of them are both conflict. But it gives you really great detailed information about how to fix it. Yeah, another benefit from using a rough Tommel over PyProject.tommel is if you're using Docker or basically any continuous integration style thing where it looks at, well, if any of the source files change,

Starting point is 00:17:04 I need to rebuild or redeploy. Restart your web apps, your APIs or whatever. You can make changes to your rough tommel and having, if you exclude that with like a Docker ignore, for example, then you rebuild it. It'll say, yep, there's no changes, right? Unless those changes are like real code changes. So I know it's not a huge deal, but that's like a plus one in the column of separating those things. Yeah so if you're just doing a handful of rules it might be fine in your project.toml but if you're experimenting with turning on more and more rules then yeah. I do look it's it's both surprising and cool that

Starting point is 00:17:44 that by default not all of them are on because a lot of linters in the past They defaulted to all on and you you try to use the tool and it would just like blow up with errors And but rough does not it it's it's got some good standard ones and then you have to go turn them on So yeah, yeah one more piece I saw in the tool book here that it was being added with a UV add. I put rough into my system using UV tool install rough, because just globally, and then have a rough toml for each project to configure it. So that way you don't have to have updates to your project

Starting point is 00:18:21 or make sure you remember to install it. It's just like a globally available tool. Yeah. Yeah, I should do that. I don't know why I don't. Oh. Anyway, well, should we talk about the wonderful people at Posit that are helping us today? Absolutely. Okay. Let's do it. This episode of Python Bytes is brought to you by the folks at Posit. Posit has made a huge investment in the Python community lately. Known originally for RStudio, they have been building out a suite of tools and services for Team Python. Today, I want to focus on hosting your Python-based data science workloads. This

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Starting point is 00:20:31 That's sort of a data science theme, right Brian? Let's go and talk about something from Adam Chains. And I know we talked about rough, but what about black? So black is still a super important, super influential thing. I imagine with black, without black is still a super important, super influential thing. I imagine with black, without black, maybe rough doesn't exist.

Starting point is 00:20:49 So I want to come up, I want to point out a tool called Blacken Docs. So if you have documentation, and in that documentation maybe you've got some code blocks, some Python code blocks, and you would like to format them, I don't know how well your Markdown editor formats code, but I'll tell you what, I love my Markdown editor,

Starting point is 00:21:10 which is Typeora. It does not have a reformat according to rough style feature whenever I say tick tick tick, Python types and stuff, right? But this does, and so you can run this against all sorts of different things. So it says documentation. But if you look at it, what it will do

Starting point is 00:21:28 is it works on restructured text, or it works on Markdown files. For example, I'm working on that Python in production book from TalkPython, which is like 250 pages of Markdown. There's a crap ton of tick, tick, tick Python something or other in there. Oh yeah. I could run it against that.

Starting point is 00:21:47 It doesn't have to be documentation. Anything that's restructured text or Markdown that has Python code, full size code block sections, you can just hit it with that. Oh cool. That's cool, right? Yeah. You can also install a pre-commit hook.

Starting point is 00:22:03 It comes with one. And then when anybody commits, it'll automatically format that. And I think, does it do docstrings as well? Let's see. I believe, yeah, you can run it on Python files to reformat docstrings, yeah. So docstrings and basically markdown and restructure text.

Starting point is 00:22:21 That's pretty awesome, right? Yeah. So there you go. You can even turn it off with some comments like, no, please don't do it here, and so on. So just to be clear, I mean, this is probably obvious, but it's not, it's formatting the code blocks within your markdown files to black style.

Starting point is 00:22:38 There aren't black styles for markdown. Yes, exactly. Okay. Although that's an interesting idea as well. I actually wouldn't mind something like black for Markdown. Yes, exactly. OK. Although that's an interesting idea as well. I actually wouldn't mind something like black for Markdown because it drives me. I do headings with the pound and pound, pound. But Markdown allows the underscore,

Starting point is 00:22:56 like the dashed line, line underneath it. And I hate that. It drives me nuts. It's like somebody came from a structured text and stuck it in there. Let's make it easier to convert our restructured text. No. No, please don't do that.

Starting point is 00:23:10 We're here because we don't like structured text. Don't you understand what's happening? All right, well, anyway, thanks Adam for that. That's a cool looking project. Yeah. I'm gonna stick with some data science themes a little bit longer. So I wanna talk about reinventing notebooks

Starting point is 00:23:30 as reusable Python programs. Have you heard of this, Meremo thing? Meremo, yes, I just had the founder of Meremo on TalkPython. Okay. Yeah, yeah, it's not out yet, but it's been recorded and available on YouTube. Okay.

Starting point is 00:23:47 If this is sort of interesting, I'm like, oh, okay. Somebody else is reinventing notebooks or something, but this is pretty cool. So this is, what are we looking at here? What we're looking at is, I'm gonna pop down to some code examples, is that a notebook doesn't have to look like a notebook anymore in like JSON form or something. It can look like Python or at least with the Meramod environment.

Starting point is 00:24:12 And I'm not quite sure. You probably know more than I do then. Can you just open these up into notebooks or do you have to do something special to get them open? So it's a different execution environment than saying Jupyter Space Lab or Jupyter Space Notebook. It's a different runtime, but they're real similar. Okay, got it. But I really like that it's just, it's just, well, it's not just Python code, it's extra stuff also.

Starting point is 00:24:44 Looks like they add some decorators to make their environment understand what it is. Like there's app.cell and at app.cell and at app.function and probably other stuff too. But some of the benefits of this are like incredible. So some of the benefits are that you can version with Git easier. Well, you can do that with JSON too, but the diffs don't really make a lot of sense often. The diffs are all over the place. You can test with PyTest and that one, I'm like really?

Starting point is 00:25:17 That's been one of the problems because in the past that testing is a kind of an issue or at least it has been a long time ago when I tried it. Maybe they've solved it other ways, but testing even with Doctest and some of the other stuff in there, embedding SQL and Markdown, like all the sort of stuff that you could normally do with Python, you can now still do with these. And that's, it's just kind of cool.

Starting point is 00:25:43 I wanted to check this out and try it out. This is available for everybody to run, right? Yeah, yeah, it's available for people to run. You can download it, run it locally. They also have some cloud options, and it's really neat. There's super nice ways to host it. You know, you just say run it as a service. One of the things that's pretty interesting here,

Starting point is 00:26:03 let me steal the stage for a moment, is this all runs inside of, in your browser, client side. So that's one of the big differences with, say, Jupiter versus this, is it's powered by WebAssembly and PyOxide. Okay. PyOdide, rather, sorry. And so, for example, this one that I pulled up,

Starting point is 00:26:25 I'll put it in the show notes, is the F1 Driver Career Explorer. And look how nice this looks, Brian. In terms of relative, to compare that to Jupiter, for example, I think it's got a really beautiful style. You can check out. Well, this is old. I've got to put Ferrari in here for Hamilton.

Starting point is 00:26:40 You only got Mercedes and McLaren. But it was powered by, say, DuckDB Web Assembly, for example, and F1 data. And yeah, it's got little explorer sort of things. And it feels really polished. It also has a collaborative edit sort of thing, like Jupyter Notebooks. Sorry, like Google Docs rather. So you can pair up on them. There's a lot of neat stuff about this. Okay. But this is, okay. It's still cool, but I misunderstood.

Starting point is 00:27:08 I thought maybe it was just a new way to run Jupyter notebooks. Yes, but with a decent amount of new features, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I guess the thing I'm missing then, or not understanding is, is there a relation between this and Jupyter notebooks? Can you use any of

Starting point is 00:27:26 the rest of the Jupyter environment or is it completely different? I believe so. I'm trying to remember now how much integration there is between those, but yeah, I think so. Okay, cool. I'll investigate more. So anyway, I'm still pretty excited about it. It looks pretty neat. I'll have to play with it a bit. So, absolutely. Another thing that it really tries to solve is they are trying to solve the... Oh, you know what? I said it had a Google Docs integration. Not exactly. But what they're trying to solve is the real challenges of integrating notebooks with Git. So, for example, with notebooks they're really JSON files and then they've got the input blocks and the output blocks.

Starting point is 00:28:06 So if you've run some code and it's dependent on anything that might change, you'll get like huge, instead of getting a nice merge, you'll get two conflicts of like giant embedded blobs and so on, yeah. The other thing that this really addresses around notebooks is notebooks allow you to run them in any order, which is kind of insane, right?

Starting point is 00:28:26 Like I could run cell one, cell two, cell three, cell four, change cell two, run cell four again to see what the output is, but maybe the changes would have made cell two be different, or cell three be different, you know? And you can like skip over, you know, have like, you know, have little numbers on the side

Starting point is 00:28:41 of which order it was running, and be like one, seven, eight, 19, 14, or something. You know, as you go down, you're like, oh, this. So this is reactive in the sense that every variable you create is like wrapped, it's not technically wrapped in a reactive behavior thing, it's they use, they parse the DOM every time you run anything.

Starting point is 00:29:03 And they create relationships between cells. Say like, okay, cell 10 uses something from cell one and cell three. So if you run cell three, it knows that cell 10 is out of date or potentially will just rerun it for you. So it keeps track of the relationships, even depending on the order,

Starting point is 00:29:19 so that you don't end up with like stale data and then run another cell that pulls in that stale data and so on. So it's trying to really address that as well. But that's cool, yeah. That's one of the things that threw me off when I first started using notebooks a little bit. Yeah, that's a little weird.

Starting point is 00:29:35 Why is it allowed to just run this piece from an exploratory perspective? That makes sense. Well, those were all expensive and now I just wanna ask questions down here and over here. But from a reproducibility perspective in debugging, it makes sense. Like, well, those were all expensive, and now I just want to ask questions down here and over here. But from a reproducibility perspective, in debugging, it's bad. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:50 So anyway, I need something fun, new to play with. Indeed, yeah, it's pretty cool. So that's our items. Do you have any extras for us? I do have some extras. Let's see a couple real quick PyCon Taiwan PyCon Taiwan

Starting point is 00:30:08 2025 is doing a call for proposals. It's gonna be in the fall and so you've got until April 5th anywhere in the world So if you want to go to Taiwan and present stuff there, they have a decent number of English to Taiwan and present stuff there. They have a decent number of English tracks and talks and stuff and they're looking for more. So check that out. Also a follow up on the Hacker News thing. Remember Brian, I was reading the Hacker News thing

Starting point is 00:30:35 saying who's looking for a job, who's hiring? Well, Shinjitsu sent us a message and said, I'm sure some other Hacker News readers have already told you this. No they haven't, so thank you, Shinjitsu. But if you haven't, you kind of got this exactly wrong. Like, oh, sorry, it says, ask Hacker News who is hiring is a monthly post that asks employers

Starting point is 00:30:56 to post what jobs they're posting, not people asking which one. And who wants to be hired is a monthly topic that asks people who are looking for jobs about themselves. So. So did we have that backwards? It was actually bad news? Yeah, I think that's what it's saying.

Starting point is 00:31:10 Let me see here. Yes, I think I said who wants to be hired was asked by the employers, and who is hiring was asked by the people looking for a job, but it sounds like it's the other way around. So that would make it less rosy. So sorry about that, folks, if that was a little bit backwards.

Starting point is 00:31:25 Oh, okay, see? A rata. A rata, yes, we have to have an a rata. How about you? I got a couple things. First off, PyCon US announced that there's a refund policy for international attendees if you qualify for certain things.

Starting point is 00:31:44 And actually, I'm just embarrassed as an American that we have to do stuff like this. But international travel in the United States has become more complex for many of our community. PyCon US welcomes all community members to Pittsburgh, but if for some reason you can't come because of various problems, read the post for details. But they're a fairly, I think a know if you're going to be able to read the post for details, but they're a fairly,

Starting point is 00:32:05 I think a fairly cool refund policy details. So anyway, if you can't come for some reason, check this out and maybe you can get a refund. I've been thinking a lot about this. There's been a lot of badness, and I'm not happy about it, Brian. I'm not happy that our country is treating people that way. It's one thing if you catch somebody trying

Starting point is 00:32:27 to sneak over the border and, I mean, it's a political debate on how lenient or aggressive you want to enforce that. But when people, especially from fellow ally countries, just try to come over and they get put in jail because they didn't have the right kind of visa or something, that is some bad stuff. That's embarrassing.

Starting point is 00:32:44 Well, you would just never think that that was, that was the way the US would treat people. I know they've been a little bit tough on immigration, but you know, Australia has, Canada has. I was detained at the Canadian border for a long time and finally was let into Canada. And it's, okay, it's a hassle, but this is another level of jerkery and, and.

Starting point is 00:33:03 Yeah. I am glad to see that PyCon is doing this. I apologize to the world. I guarantee you Brian and I are not supporters of this policy of the reef. We're supporters of the refund policy. Yes. Not the, not the cause of the refund policy. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay. Oh, on a slightly more positive note, um, uh, I finally finished up restructuring the complete PyTest course series.

Starting point is 00:33:30 So originally it was, so this is over at pythontest.com. This originally was, I had a remaking the PyTest book I wrote as a course and it was one course but that really the book was into three parts and intended to be read at different times during your development process. When you're first starting out at Pytest, then when you're trying to apply it to projects and then when you're like really good at it and you really want to like take off and get great at it there's another there's another section. And I had it in one course and it doesn't write quite I don't think it really quite fit how people

Starting point is 00:34:10 use PyTest and learn PyTest. So now it's split up so you can still get the complete bundle and it gets the three parts. But the three parts learning the the basics of PyTest is a separate course now you can just buy it separate. And then you can grab part two and then part three. But also part two is working with projects, part three the booster rockets, like building really building plugins is why you would probably grab this and advanced parameterization techniques. However, even if you didn't buy the other ones, I like having them separate now because if somebody's like, I really wanna build my own plugin,

Starting point is 00:34:47 you can just go check out this one course instead of taking all three of them. So that's my big news there. The other reason why the other restructuring that I did is all the chapters are now a single video per chapter, for the most part. Chapters two and three are a bit long, so I split them up so they're about 20 minutes each.

Starting point is 00:35:06 But the thing that I really like about this now is that in each video, you can pop in and you can change the speed. So you can watch like the whole, I'm usually a 1.25 or 1.5 speed kind of person. And it was bugging me that you had to reset that setting every three minutes, like for a three or five minute video. Now, now it's only like you can only set it once for a 20 minute video.

Starting point is 00:35:29 So anyway, works better for me. Hopefully it works better for everybody else too. So that's my, that's my big extra. So yeah, awesome. Congrats on getting that all already done. That's great. Yeah. So how about a joke?

Starting point is 00:35:42 We boldly go and no one's gone before. Yeah, so last week's joke was around, was a Star Trek Klingon theme. And we had, who was it? We had somebody from Holgi on Mastodon said, again, you probably already know this, but there's this thing called the Klingon programmers. So this is over at kernel.edu.

Starting point is 00:36:06 Top 12 things likely to be heard if you are a Klingon programmer. And I kind of love this. So we should probably zoom in a little bit. Okay, we're not gonna read all 12, but number 12 is actually pretty good. Specifications are for the weak and timid. Do you wanna read any of these?

Starting point is 00:36:26 Let's see. This machine is a piece of God. I need a dual Pentium processor if I am to do battle with this code. Yeah. Number four, a true Klingon warrior does not comment his code. Debugging Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the week. Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak. I think the perfect... Klingon functions do not have parameters. They have arguments and they always win them.

Starting point is 00:36:55 I love it. All right, let's round out the tie back to last week, which was we will test in production. Okay, yeah. So this is a number one. Number one. Do it. Our users will know fear and cower before our software. Ship it, ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are. Exactly. This is good.

Starting point is 00:37:19 This is a reminder also to everybody that if you think we probably have already heard it, there's a decent chance we haven't. So send it to us anyway. We don't mind repeats. So if you find something, something funny, a lot of credit, Ryan, maybe too much more than we deserve. Yeah. Anyway, well, thanks again for, uh, for jumping on the call with us and, uh, uh, enjoy, enjoy doing another episode and And thank you everybody that listens and everybody that shares this with other people.

Starting point is 00:37:49 We like to grow our community. Yeah, very much appreciate everyone. See you all later. Bye, Brian. Bye.

Python Bytes - #425 If You Were a Klingon Programmer

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