QAA Podcast - The Legacy of Knowledge Fight feat. Dan Friesen (E374)

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

For nine years and over 1100 episodes Dan Friesen and his co-host Jordan Holmes helmed the podcast Knowledge Fight, where they unpacked and analyzed the neverending flood of nonsense that flowed from the mouth of Alex Jones through his media empire Infowars. After it was announced that Alex Jones’ ownership of Infowars had ended, even if his career as a broadcaster had not, Knowledge Fight decided to call it quits earlier this month, ending a podcasting run that began in 2017. We speak to Dan about what it’s like to spend nearly a decade covering Alex Jones, why people are still drawn to Jones, the value of debunking, The Onion’s deal to take over the Infowars brand, and how his brain is healing now that he no longer listens to unhinged rants every week. https://www.showmestateofmind.com/ Subscribe for $5 a month to get all the premium episodes: www.patreon.com/qaa Check out our new podcast series network Cursed Media! All episodes of Spectral Voyager Season 2 are out now! Binge the entirety of Truly Tradly Deeply by Annie Kelly and Megan Kelly as well as Science in Transition by Liv Agar and Spencer Barrows: cursedmedia.net Produced by Liv Agar & Corey Klotz. Theme by Nick Sena. Additional music by Pontus Berghe and Jake Rockatansky. Theme Vocals by THEY/LIVE (instagram.com/theyylivve / sptfy.com/QrDm). Cover Art by Pedro Correa: (pedrocorrea.com) qaapodcast.com QAA was known as the QAnon Anonymous podcast.

If you're hearing this, well done, you've found a way to connect to the internet. Welcome to the QAA podcast, episode 374, the legacy of knowledge fight, featuring Dan Friesen. As always, we are your host, Jake Rockatansky, Julian Fields, and Travis View. Covering toxic media in podcast form is a kind of alchemical transmutation. While the source content is typically deceitful, cruel, and boring to everyone not locked into a specific online echo chamber, responsible coverage of it has to be rigorously skeptical, humane, and entertaining even the people who only spend a healthy amount of time reading news and social media feeds. It's not easy, which is why so few of people do it. Today on the show, we have the privilege of speaking to a man that I believe is one of the rare masters of that magic.

For nine years and over 1,100 episodes, Dan Friesen and his co-host Jordan Holmes helm the podcast's Knowledge Fight, where they unpacked and analyzed the never-ending flood of horseship that flowed from the mouth of Alex Jones through his media empire Info Wars. After it was announced that Alex Jones's ownership of Info Wars had ended, even if his career as a broadcaster had not, KnowledgeFie decided to call it quits earlier this month, ending a podcasting run that began in 2017. Very excited to talk to Dan about the perils of covering Jones and the states of conspiracies media in 26. Dan, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been too long. Thanks for having me. Very interested to find out what's new in the world of QAnon.

See how I kid. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's still so many Q&ONN accounts. I like that I follow. And like they're still referencing the Q drops. They still do the thing where they check the delta, which is like they see what Q drops landed on this date in 2018 or something.

And I don't talk a lot about them on the show just because if, is so repetitive sometimes. It's like, it's like, yeah, I mean, you can relate. Be like, I can't, I can't come on the mic every, every single week and say, yep, they're still doing it. Yeah, at a certain point, it's, it's, you're doing a new, like, you, this is certainly how it is with Alex Jones as well. It's like, you're just, like, he's on his, he's on that shit again. He's doing this again, you know, it, it becomes a little bit, yeah, like you said, repetitive. Yeah, but I haven't considered quitting, really, because I got to say, I've had a few,

jobs in my day. I like this one. I get to research, you know, things that interest me. I get to work with some very talented people. I get to interview, you know, people like yourself. It's a lot of fun. So I'm going to keep doing it till the wheels fall off or slump over the mic. But you, you made the decision to hang up your headphones after nine years. So what exactly spurred this? You know, I think it's a complicated number of factors that all play into it. But some of the big ones were that as, you know, you mentioned, you all cover a bunch of different topics, whereas our show was largely focused on Alex Jones

and InfoWars specifically. And over the last year, at least, there's just been a growing feeling of like, what is he gonna say that's gonna be interesting? Ever. Like, we've heard him talk for almost a decade, just minutely breaking down his lies, the storylines, all of this stuff. And it just, he was going to continue to exist.

Yes, that's like obviously true. But what new vistas are there to explore? What else is there? He has no new depth he's going to discover in his lives. He's just going to become maybe a more explicit anti-Semite racist type guy in the media. I guess that's probably, you know, it's worth being aware that that trend is going to be there. But I don't know what there is more to much, to learn. And that at the same time, our name was knowledge fight. That was a joke on Info Wars.

And now he's going to be doing the Alex Jones show. Our name doesn't make sense. We must quit at that point. It's funny, because I still think there's mystery in the folds of his body. Like, I still would love to explore some of those vistas. Do you mean physically? His body physically? Yeah, absolutely. And I don't, I don't mind if that reads as sexual, but I'd be just as happy with like an autopsy type situation. I will say, without getting too specific, I've seen a lot more of his body than I wish I had. Let's say some things that I ended up seeing in discovery, helping with the Texas Sandy Hook case, I can't unsee. Yeah. I think I once described him as a human tomato on this podcast.

And, yeah, I've always been kind of fascinated by, like, just him as, like, a kind of throbbing blood vessel, essentially. Yeah, he's really more of a tamako, actually. You know, the thing that you're touching on there, I think, is, like, legit, though. Like, he exists. He's a physical thing that exists. And it's so crazy to, like, acknowledge that in the same way that we all have blood inside us. And we all feel hot when we go out in the sun. Like, he does, too.

He's not, like, some thing. And that's pretty awful. Yeah. I mean, when I first saw him in public at the Stop the Steel Rally in Arizona, like, He really got the crowd worked up. And I remember just kind of following with the crowd and seeing this man's magnetism in person. But, yeah, it really was exactly like seeing him on television because he really never isn't on television in some way. I don't know.

He's got something where I can't imagine him at rest. I'm sure there are times. I think it's probably when he's drunk enough to just kind of space out. Might be a survival mechanism for him, yeah, that bottle. Yeah, I remember at that rally in that protest. They had a lot of, I guess, celebrity guests from the, like, right-wing media sphere. But none of them got the reaction to Alex Jones did. I mean, the way he came storming out, surprise, he was an announcement, started screaming out of the megaphone.

And then people just swarmed him and said that started just spontaneously telling him how much they loved him. I don't know. It was really delirious to see that kind of, like, real charisma in person. Yeah, I remember just being like, I was not. Nothing I could ask this person. So I just asked him, why are you so beautiful? And he did like a double take and he looked at me and he's like, I can't, well, actually, I can't even remember what he answered.

Because what does it matter? I can tell you. I can tell you, because we got it out of the video. He said, you're beautiful. And then Julian bopped him on the head with his camera. Yeah, well, almost. I almost touched his nose. And then he up the window.

He gave him a little like forehead kiss. Butterfly kisses. I'm shocked he didn't like take that opportunity to go into a lecture about like, It's my genetics. My ancestors are beautiful, and therefore I am beautiful, because we are all our ancestors. And we, like, some sort of weird, just off to the side of eugenics kind of rant.

Well, he saw what probably looked like a liberal approaching, you know, and was like, oh, he's got a camera. He's going to say something awful. Here we go again. And then, you know, Julian just goes, you're beautiful. He's like, what? He has an uncanny ability to smell out cucks just from, like, energy. So you can see a lib coming.

So he knew. I think, Travis, to what you were saying, though, like he's one of, with that charisma stuff, like, he's one of the last people in, like, that right wing media space who grew up in a time when wrestling was wrestling and rock and roll was rock and roll. And he loved those things clearly, whether he admits to it or not.

And he takes a lot of showmanship cues from those kinds of performing arts. And like, I think it, I think it, we could see the dividends that it pays off. Like, he, Riling up a crowd. And I saw him in Pennsylvania when he was on Tucker's live tour. And it was fascinating how inane it was. He was saying almost nothing and people were losing their shit. He was just doing like, 17, 76 will commence once again.

And like, it starts a wave around the audience. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah. I remember I also saw like, uh, Cernovich there who was like, you know, who has like, you know, big online presence, but like no one was reacting to him. Like, you know, they were very excited to see him. He was just kind of standing around. He's a dork.

Yeah, he said, yes, exactly. He's a very online dork like many of us are. But, yeah, that doesn't, you can see, you could, yeah, you can see the way Alex Jones, you know, really knows how to, like, really be that kind of, like, personality in the meat space. It's not just an online presence. I think it's because he had to. Like, when he was coming up, he would have to go out and, like, bullhorn people and, like,

be on the street. and like command attention in a world where like Austin at the time, it wasn't like there weren't a bunch of crazy people trying to get attention. He had to stand out among even that like wild city. And I think, I don't know. I think that's like metaphorical time in the gym. Right. He's also been around so long.

You know, as somebody who was casually interested in conspiracy theory since I was, you know, I don't know, 11 or 12, like it was Alex Jones, coast to coast. you know, some of the other, like, famous people in the sort of, like, conspiracy, anti-Semitism space like David Ike, like weren't even, didn't even register on my radar, but I knew about Info Wars and I knew about, like, coast to coast, which are obviously two very different sides of, of a similar looking coin. And became more similar over the time that George Norrie was in charge of it. Right, certainly took coast to coast a lot closer to that, like, pretending to be libertarian,

but actually more sovereign citizen, weird right-wing shit. Like Info Wars was a household name in a weird way. Like, you know, people knew about that. There were T-shirts. I mean, famously, one of the guys who came to our live show completely fucking wasted off his ass, ruining the show multiple times. Oh, my God, Julie, and I forgot about that. He was in an Info Wars T-shirt.

And I was like, are you fucking wearing that seriously right now? Like, what is happening? I never got to the bottom of those two. Those two were so fucking wasted. I think they were real fans, but they were just super wasted. At first, we thought that they... One of them fell asleep. Yeah, we thought that they had seen Q-Aon on the marquee and kind of like wandered in off the streets being like, oh, man, maybe Q's here.

They were some deep-fried fans, man. But, yeah, I mean, back to what we were saying. Yeah, it's interesting. Like, I think that he did build that space out for himself at a time where you had to have so many more, like, skills and sort of tools in your tool chest because the internet, you know, was... It wasn't how it is now. Yeah, and I think a lot of it was luck in timing, too. Like, you know, like, he came up in the 90s when there were, and like, there were some decent points to be made for the militia movement. Like, they weren't right.

A lot of their beliefs were very wrong. But I think right thinking, sensible people can look at what happened at Waco and look at what happened at Ruby Ridge. And we can say, like, these are tragedies, even if law enforcement needed to do something. Even if you don't believe that they were egregious, like, you know, the government trying to oppress everyone, you can agree that there's a mishandling in it. And so he came about in a time when there was far more ability to have, like, a reaching across the aisle consensus between extreme over here and extreme over here. And then as he grew bigger, there were these deeply traumatic events like 9-11.

that transcended politics in a lot of ways for the public. There are left-wing people who are mad about 9-11, right-wing people mad about 9-11. And he was able to capitalize on a lot of that stuff through a lot of his career and made fans who thought he was on their side. Like, you'd have people like Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or any of these conventional right-wing talkers,

and if you're on the left, you could never think that maybe they would agree with you. But if you're watching Occupy Wall Street go down and Alex is like, hey, fuck these banks. Bra, bra, bra, bra. Like, you could be like, oh, my God, this dude, he gets it. He gave him more broad appeal, you know? Yeah. Yeah, no, in the era of loose change, he was a very different voice.

And I remember having some affinity at least, you know, I'm like, I'm like, okay, at least there's like a rebellious voice out there, you know, like sticking it to certain things that clearly have issues with them. And then... Here's the twist, though. I don't think his voice was really all that different. It's just that he was able to appear different. His public brand was able to be sold as a little bit different.

I think he was still just as much of a right-wing shithead and extreme pile of garbage back then. Like his dad used to give speeches for the John Birch Society when he was in college, and Alex grew up in that his whole life and it's never really aired from that. But he was able to present himself in a way that appealed to people like, what you're describing. People could see him that way, whereas now it's a lot harder.

I'm also a teenager at the time, and you have like waking life. Waking life was huge. That fucked everything. Yeah, yeah, that's right. God damn, Link later. What was he thinking? I don't know, but Alex was in there yelling his ass off. I was pilled his shit as a

fresh... I remember watching the towers get hit as a freshman in college in my dorm room. And like, of course, just like spun out. You know, I never really discovered Alex Jones, like, I think I probably just, like, didn't have the attention span to go that deep on the end. I was too interested in, like, weed and drugs and women and stuff, but, but, like, I was so pilled at that time, and they're, they're really, other than people talking amongst themselves,

there wasn't really somebody you could turn on the TV and find, like, this very, like, at least in my lexicon of knowledge, like, somebody who was his anti-authoritarian, as loudly and as boisterously as Alex Jones, you know, was. Definitely. I kind of think that Linklater was just thinking that, yeah, he's a Texas filmmaker and here's a Texas personality that's talking about like big ideas. It was maybe felt it was essentially harmless to include them or harmless to include as like, oh, one of many kind of ideas being floated around this sort of movie about ideas. But I think it really illustrates, you know, the way he was perceived with the way Alex Jones was perceived in like 2001. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And I think Linklater's talked about that too. I think he regrets putting Alex in that and then also in scanner darkly. And I'm glad that that's the case because I like a lot of his work. And otherwise I'd have to really do some of that artist art separation stuff. Yeah, it's weird. I remember like, I remember when conspiracy theories like didn't have a political side. At least to me it didn't seem like that as a younger person when it was just like, it was kind of like, oh, the government's fucking us over in some way.

here's a bunch of like ideas of, you know, specifics. Covering something for this long, I mean, your perception of it has to change. I mean, it's like what, what you used to think is perhaps the most dramatic sort of like evolution of your understanding of like Alex Jones and it's like his media ecosystem and how it works? You know, from the beginning when he started from due today. Well, I think, you know, it kind of touches on what Jake just said.

Like the, like, it felt innocent before. Like there was, there was. was a feeling around conspiracy and particularly Alex's brand of it that felt like, all right, I don't think I agree with a lot of this. But there's a sincerity to this that I can attach myself to. I can connect to being really mad at the powerful people that have an undue influence on how we all live our lives. That sucks.

And this guy is giving voice to that. And I can, I can dig it. Through doing the show, though, like it's really undeniable how much. much he doesn't mean any of the stuff he says. There are a number of things that I think are very sincere. I think he does have a lot of hate and a lot of anger towards people who he perceives as different from himself. He hates, you know, various functions of the government that are meant to be safety nets and stuff like that. Like, I think all of that is sincere, but everything is so fungible. You could just change so much that, like, my perception at this point of a lot of media,

what I would describe as like he's kind of a persuasion form of media. He's a, it's not even that he's making a point, but he's trying to sway people in one direction or the other. And I view that with way more cynicism than I did when I started this. I think a lot of people who are in that field are doing it in order to divert people into revenue streams that have nothing to do with whatever the political stuff they're selling is. So I think I trust demagogues a lot less. And I didn't trust them much to begin with. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like, I think, yeah, I think one of the biggest change is that, you know,

Alex Jones always sort of like portrayed himself as sort of like, I guess, the really super independent, anti-authoritarian. And then he sort of evolved to essentially the official regime conspiracy theorist. I mean, why do you think he's even safe for his brand to go all in on Trump? And like even when sometimes Trump sort of. of like a badmouthed him on the true social. Well, let's take that a step further. Let's look at that question and ask ourselves, if he did do that, why should we assume he

wasn't doing that before? Why would it make sense to assume that, like, he had a totally integrity-based career, and he was a straight up and a truth teller, an anti-authoritarian, and then Trump came along and everything changed? I see no reason to assume that, like, Ron Paul wasn't doing the exact same shit in terms of, like, connection with him that Trump was. It's just that Ron Paul was never going to win. And Trump accidentally won.

If Trump had lost in 2016, it would just be another Ron Paul piece of his career. The problem is that it worked. And now the demagogue in the form of Trump, the authoritarian-leaning asshole that you're trying to present as a champion of freedom, now has the opportunity to do the stuff that you're supposed to want him to do, but you really don't. It's like a dog who gets a bone or something, and it's too big. It's going to choke on the bone. Yeah, the dog who caught the car. You mean the dog who catches the car?

Yeah. Jake. No, no, no, no. Dogs? Look, I have a dog, and I'll tell you what they chase after, bones, all right? I've never seen Teddy once go after the car. I've seen him go after a vacuum cleaner, a hedgy, and bones. Wait till I drive by in the bone mobile.

Then everything's going to change. Yeah, carefully. He's going to, Dan's going to come by, in the Fred Flintstone. I get working on my calves so I can... Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you got to build up the calluses on the bottom of your feet.

Yeah. I think that, like, speaks to another part of the cynicism that I feel somewhat about this media, that, like, I don't necessarily think him becoming the, like, propagandist of the state organ

is a betrayal totally of who he was all along. I think there are things that are betraying principles he pretended to have, but I think I'm far more comfortable with looking at his whole career as a much more like crass enterprise than some people. Yeah, I mean, it seems like Alex Jones just like has like a handful of a grab bag of like rhetorical techniques that sort of like work from and he's deployed like over and over and over again in many situations. I mean, what do you, I mean, what do you think is like

perhaps like most effective mon? For example, like, there are instances where he has a, um, an idea of how things should go and like reality contradicts him in some kind of way. Like how does he, how does he maneuver around this? Well, there's two things that I think are like superpowers almost. One is that he does a show that no one watches. Like he just is on air forever and no one's watching.

But people see clips. And so he has the ability to like, I don't know if he can control what clips go where, but he kind of knows when he turns on the gas. there's a good chance someone might clip that and put it on social media and then ignore the other two hours of his boring show. And so I think that that's something that, whether he is able to control that or not, he uses it to his advantage. And then the other huge, huge trick is predicting everything. Like you predict X, you predict not X. You predict Y, you predict not Y. You just say

everything. And then when whatever happens happens, you just focus. on the fact that you predicted X. It's great. Just ignored that you said the opposite also. Seeing a lot of this nowadays. And a tributary sort of off that stream is that like he will make

a prediction. Like let's say Trump is going to be assassinated next week or something like that. They're going to blow up his plane. He'll make that kind of prediction. And let's say it happens. He'll be like, oh my God, I had a prophecy. God told me what was going to happen. And then let's say it doesn't happen. He'll say

because I talked about it, the globalists changed their plans and decided not to blow up his plane. So no matter what, he's a prophet. And one version of it, he can see the future. And the other version, he dictates the future by scaring the globalists into not doing things that are like really scary. So it's kind of a, it's a trap. It's a rhetorical trap that he puts people in. What exactly you think is like your role of like, I guess, debunking for your show? I mean, it's like, obviously it does get repetitive when you just simply explain like why he misinterpreted a study or he's misquoting an article or it's like he's just wrong.

Do you think it's like more important to go into like the mechanics of the wrongness? Like the sort of the exactly sort of like methods he uses to like bolster his point, you know? Definitely. Definitely. I think debunking as a like, hey, you forgot to cross the T or dot the I here or whatever. I don't know if that helps people as much. much as I hoped it would. Like when in 2017, I thought like, oh, if you just provide the right information, people will be able to see, oh, this is, this guy is just wrong. And I don't know if, I don't know if people's brains work that way. But that what you're describing that, like,

how the lie works, how, like, why are you telling this story this way? What does it achieve? I do think that that is really important. And I think in terms of my role deconstructing that stuff about Alex Jones, we've done 1,100 episodes. We have talked about pretty much every way that he's able to lie over the course of that. And I think that anything he could do, you should be prepared to look at through a better lens. I don't know. I don't know. It's a tough question. Yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, I know it's the same thing. I think the problem is, is that with, especially, sometimes I get to, like, actual debates with, like, Q and on followers online. And And it's like sometimes it's like they didn't really like care if like a specific thing that Q said or implied was was false.

Because they believed in this concept of like directional truth or even if they are wrong about a particular fact. It was like what really matter to them. It's like what, but they are right about the broader narrative about like how the elites are cannibal pedophiles. That broad, broad narrative is is essentially true. So so this little thing is like is irrelevant. But like I think it is just more interesting just to see the mechanics and techniques of the. seat and like in QAnon, it was like they really, they really relied on vagueness, this kind of kind of like Nostradamus like code language that drew people in and then allowed people to

kind of like work their way into any kind of meaning they liked and kind of allowed Q to be very, very slippery in terms of like what they claimed was a prediction or not. Yeah, but like, I don't know. I think that people really don't care about like, you know, the little quibbles. I think it's, I don't think it's interesting. I think it's important to really clarify what is true or whether it's not, but I think that's just not really how people actually engage with the world and their own worldviews. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think it has value. And I think that that, you know, talking about the mechanics of the, you know, the vagueness or the prophecy or, you know, those kinds of things. When it's like, okay, the larger narrative

is true, but this part isn't true. When you approach these topics that way, I think it does help you retain empathy for the consumer of these things and hostility towards the disseminators. Because they're taking advantage of something that these people are responding to. So you can have empathy for why they as like viewers or someone who is into this kind of media, what is it satisfying for them and still maintain a like, this sucks, fuck this person. but like normal everyday people, you can be like, I empathize,

like I was saying, with Alex, a large part of what his content is built on is a belief that there are people who are wielding outsized power on the lives of everyday citizens and people in the United States. Yeah.

That's true. We could agree on that. And when someone responds to that, and they need to feel and, like, acknowledge the, the correctness of that larger narrative, it doesn't do any good to be like, you're fucking wrong,

there are no globalists, what are you talking about? You know, it doesn't help. Yeah. Maintaining some empathy for the reality that, like, there's outsized power in the world

while saying like, okay, these globalist stories are not true. You know, like, that I think is the best way to help and retain some humanity. Yeah.

Definitely. Yeah, I think even when the QAnon people said, like, stuff likes like, oh, you know, they're all pedophile cannibals. I feel like this was just sort of like a,

a colorful way to express, I think the ruling class is corrupt and self-serving and that kind of thing. So I try to at least acknowledge at least the emotional core of like why these kinds of like claims are like sometimes outrageous, I at least resonate. Yeah, I think some people when they're like, they're cannibals are just what they are like energetically or emotionally saying is they look at us as meat. The rich look at us as meat. They don't really, it's not that they eat us. It's just that we're not as meaningful as individuals as they see themselves.

And maybe that's overgenerous of me, but I, that's kind of how I. Oh, you're absolutely right. All of this doesn't work. This doesn't work otherwise. You have to have this insane gap. And really two different sets, you know, two Americas, basically for the wealthy and, and everybody else. This doesn't work without, without having that.

because everybody's just pissed off and, you know, you have somebody who comes along and they have your particular brand of anger. And look, like, you know, to this point you were making earlier about, you know, these choices that these content creators make to trap people. I thought that was a really interesting point to trap people sort of like in their information loop. You know, every content creator makes a choice to be like, see, I predicted that. I told you so. You know, when they're doing, every time they're doing that, they're basically kind of hinting, hey, stay. here because you're going to know it before everybody else. And at the very least, you know, having the knowledge, you know, that makes you feel a little bit better about having nothing else

in a lot of situations. Yeah, that's true. It makes me think of one kind of funny thing. We predicted COVID accidentally. We were doing an episode, a Project Camelot episode about a time traveler who said that like, I think Martin Luther King's granddaughter became president in such and such a year and me and Jordan were spitballing and we're like okay she would be too young to be president so the only way that this could happen is if there's a global pandemic that disproportionately affects older people brings down the average age to the point where we need to lower the age of requirement for president and the second part didn't come true but there was a global pandemic that affected older people and yeah i think that's funny we didn't predict COVID but someone if they

wanted to could be like we called it listen to this out of context clip of us saying that there's going to be a pandemic. And that's that's totally. That's that trick. Yeah. I feel like the weird thing about that trick is that it really rewards just making as many like wild claims as you can, as quickly as you can. And then that just gives you more and more material to draw from. So actually it's like the more, the more you lie, the more you bullshit, the more prophetic you seem.

If you have the advantage of no one watching your show. Like, because I sincerely don't know who is watching, like, hours and hours of Alex's show. I, if he were, if, if people were consistently watching it and holding him accountable for all of the, you know, mass amounts of bullshit predictions, I don't know how he could retain any, like, people thinking he is legit. I mean, I have to imagine even the people who do watch the show, just watch him for the energy. They like his, they like his, his outrage and his clownishness, maybe. they like the feeling of like you're just communing with someone who has that kind of like bottomless energy more so than they really like pay attention to the things he's saying. Yeah.

He can get a lot louder and a lot redder than you can at work when you're, you know, being shit on. You know, that's he he can personify, you know, Julian called him a tomato. It's like, yeah, he can personify that beat, red, inside rage that you have at every system that you feel like, is fucking, you know, is fucking you over because you're just kind of looking for a reason why shit's so damn fucking hard and they're not giving you any dope shit. Yeah, it's harder for him to do

now that he doesn't, like, get on air as drunk anymore. Like it definitely was easier back in those days. Like a lot of listeners of the show, like some of my favorite episodes were the formulaic objections series, which covered depositions of Alex Jones and his associates in the Sandy Hook case. What do you think was, like, the most interesting, like, takeaway of seeing Jones and his associates in a not their preferred venue, like a really kind of like,

not in the driver's seat like they are in Info Wars. What do you think was really kind of like the crucial things are kind of like exposed about him and how he operates? So I was lucky enough to be asked to be an expert consultant with the Texas plaintiffs. And through that, I, you know, got access to depositions and then was connected with the Connecticut lawyers who also trusted me with giving me these depositions. And I got a wide spectrum view of a lot of his employees. And one of the things, like, I think that, you know, is just broadly speaking, a glimpse that I got was that all of these people don't really, they don't really know what they're doing. I mean, they know what they're doing in a morally culpable sense, but like they don't know. what a business is. And to some extent, I don't either. Like, if I were asked to be a corporate

representative in a deposition, I wouldn't know how to prepare, but I would ask somebody. And they don't. They just have no respect for anything outside of themselves and info wars. And I think some of that is intentional, because I think that there's a lot of, I don't know this to be true exactly, but I think a lot of people who work there probably have a sense that something's not right. there's something shady going on that might be illegal. And I think that many of them probably have a like, well, it's best if we don't ask too many questions. Alex knows what's going on.

I guess we'll just, you know, we don't know anything. And I think some of that is pretty sincere than not knowing anything. But through that process, I was able to sit in the depositions with one of them with Alex and one with his assistant Darya Karpova. And I think that the thing that will stick out to me forever is in the deposition with Daria, the lawyers asked her about a picture that Wolfgang Halbig had presented of the Sandy Hook Children's Choir that he claimed was like the Sandy Hook children still alive. And the lawyer asked Darya, how should my clients feel about you claiming that their children are still alive? and in this picture. And her response was something along the lines of,

I would think it would give them hope. Their children are still alive somewhere. And I think she didn't miss a beat with coming up with that answer. Like it wasn't something that she had to be like, ah, this'll work. It was something that seemed kind of like an organic thought. And I felt it was so monstrous that like I just had never, I'd never been in the same room as that kind of energy.

It's chilling. Well, it gives you kind of an interesting insight to like the totally pilled brain, you know, how one gets there in the first place is like, well, they could kind of like grapple with this like horrible reality actually that their child has been like ripped away from them. And they're never going to be the same. They have no idea what their relationship is going to look like, you know. Or, or maybe it is a hoax. You know, maybe the kids are in some underground bunker somewhere. safe and sound isn't that better to have hope than to accept the grim reality. And I think that that, you know, it's monstrous in so many ways. It's monstrous in the thing that it's so simple. I think it's so simple why people, you know, get like pulled into this is because it's, I don't know, once you see everybody else playing by different rules and people making up identities and lives and realities for themselves on the internet and social media, like, what's stopping you from taking that extra? step and like living a happier life, even if it's not real.

Yeah. I can identify with that a little bit, and I understand that. The place where it just becomes like so bizarre is like, if you are Daria, I get like thinking that the idea that these children were murdered at their school is awful. And it's horrifying. I don't want to live with that. Let's imagine that they're still alive. Let's create this elaborate conspiracy in order to do it.

The part that's like the jump off that's, I don't know. how you get to is, I mean, like, the parents would recognize their children. They know that these people in the choir aren't their children. And, like, you have to, like, add so much malice to the, like, new idea that you're taking on that it's not better. It doesn't, it's, it's, it's not really more comforting than just acknowledging the tragedies happen in the world, you know? Yeah. So do you think she actually believed that or that she's cynically coming up with ideas to, to kind of deflect? I think that as long as InfoWars is profitable, we'll never know. Like, I think that as long as there is money to be made in this bullshit, like, it would be

almost impossible to determine what is a sincere belief that one of these people holds and what is cynical bullshit. I really don't know. I want to say it's cynical, but is that me just coping, you know? Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like, whenever I get the, like, yo, do the such and such actually believe it or whatever, these kinds of questions, like, I always, I always think that a lot of the people who promote these claims, it's like, they're fine with not having any kind of base between the things

that they say, nothing substantive behind it. The idea is that, well, just saying something because you believe it and saying it because you don't, they don't make that kind of distinction, you know, is something that you, that you say in order to achieve a goal, and then whether or not it has correspondence to some sort of truth in reality is not something that's ever considered. Nah, it's true now. Yeah. That's what matters. At this moment, it's true, because I need it to be true in order to get to this commercial that I'm about to do.

Yeah. And I've always, you know, like, that question that you're saying, like, do they believe it or not? I think that I got that a lot at the beginning. And me and Jordan would always talk about, like, trying to figure out that line of stupid and evil. And I think as time went on, I cared about that less. Because, like, if you have Alex being like, gay people are the devil. I, ah, bah, then like, okay, let's imagine he believes it. That sucks.

Let's imagine he doesn't believe it, but he's getting on air to say that. That sucks. That also sucks. Yeah. It changes, I guess, how you approach the information, but it doesn't really matter. Both are bad. Yeah, it's like, if they're telling the truth, okay, if they're saying something they sincerely believe, then, yeah, you're dealing with a madman who's just, you just can't be

negotiated or reasoned with. Who's popular, by the way? And popular. But if you're dealing with the liar, that you're dealing with someone who's very slippery and cynical and knows when to attack and when to withdraw. And, like, they're much more strategic about the false claims that they're making. That's also bad for a different reason. But, yeah, there's like, there's no, there's really no good answer. Yeah.

And if they're that, if they're that liar, they're never going to let you know that they're that liar. They're going to, it's like what Tucker said in that one interview did a while back. Like, I lie when I'm cornered. When I, by back to the wall, I lie. Yeah. It's like what comes first, the true believer or the grifter. I was going to jump in earlier and say, you know, what's the difference? Like, what is the difference?

And I almost lost a friendship over Alex Jones. And like, I was the bad one. I wasn't like an Info Wars guy, but I had friends who were pretty pilled. And like after Sandy Hook, like one of our, they were like, you know, a couple friends were sending conspiracy theories like in a group chat. And, you know, those come before any real information comes. So it's already like, oh, well, the ambulance. or, why is this going on? You're looking at that.

And like, one of my good friends, his, uh, had a cousin or second cousin who was one of the children who was murdered. And so you can imagine somebody that's kind of like, is this like real or not? And having a friend who's actually like, you know, lost a family member in a tragedy. Like, you know, I could have lost, you know, there was like some, there was moments. And then, you know, as more information came out, I was like, I don't know. This is like, really. But, you know, I, I was never as so lost a soul to get like pulled deeply into any, like,

conspiracy like really bad but like yeah i i could have like easily like lost a friendship over it and you and you see how people lose lose friends and family and it's dangerous it's just it's dangerous it's a friendship i treasure i would i would so regret you know losing that over believing in some i don't know you know Alex jones conspiracy yeah but i think i think friendships are sort of that you know there there's something that takes two parties right so like if you were believing in this kind of a conspiracy to the point where your friend can't talk to you, that's anti-social behavior. Like, that's not the conspiracy's fault.

You have the good sense to value this friendship enough to, like, if they're pushing back on you, reassess whatever it is, the belief that they're pushing back on. And that's what people need to get back to. Like, a healthy distrust for, like, systems and power that leads to questioning something. that maybe you don't need to be questioned. And then people who are around, people who have these, like, more conspiracy beliefs, having a little bit of grace,

but also having boundaries. Like, the feeling that I have is that we can't just be like, oh, you believe something stupid. I'm never talking to you again. But you also can't have so much patience for people being like, well, what about? What if, what if there are aliens that walk amongst us in shape shit?

Like, at a point, people do have to cut people out, I think. You know? Yeah. I have some pilled group chat still that I, I just like, I don't really push back anymore. I just don't say anything. I don't validate and I don't sort of like push back, especially around all the alien stuff that came out. But it's like, yeah, I think that's a really good point. Because my buddy was like, what are you talking about?

Like, my cousin fucking died. Like, what are you on about? And I was like, why are you giving him the nerd place? Like, why does this feel bad? This feels like really bad. And then I got like my other buddies in the chat being. like, dude, did you see the pictures of this? I mean, look, look at the choir.

You know, it's like, I feel like we all have two wolves. It's like the piled chat and the friends that it might hurt, you know. You get to nurture those wolves. And the pilled wolf will calm down if nurtured. That's the thing. It won't get angrier. Yeah, correct, correct. Yeah.

Well said. I'll say probably my favorite edition of the formulaic objection series was the deposition of Owen Schroyer. because I think that showed that like whether or not he genuinely believed that the kinds of things he promoted on air, his persona was bullshit. The idea of like someone who was especially knowledgeable or like knows more than the mainstream media or especially tough was absolutely dismantled. Like if at one point the lawyer of Mark Bankson got him to like admit that he's a puppet because he's reading things that are put in front of him without fully understanding. And that, I don't know, I think that I think that was just just extraordinary to show that like, Yeah, it's like these, these people are like, they're, like, they're like doing a job.

They're not like, they're not willing to actually risk anything for the things that they say. They will collapse and stonewall and claim ignorance the moment things actually get a little, little hot. Yeah. Just because, just because it's a moment of pride for him. I should point it. That was Bill Ogden was the lawyer in that one with his gummy worms. He was, he was very proud of the puppet moment. But yeah, it's, it's a, like they all demand, give me my day in court, and I'll prove all these claims. that I'm making and I'll make the globalists fall to their knees and humiliation at how right I am. And then the second you're under oath and being asked a question, you're like, I don't know anything. Someone put a piece of paper in front of me.

Like it's crazy. I know. They always say the same thing when they get sued. Oh, I can't wait for discoveries. Discovery's going to be great. Yeah. But discoveries, it never happens. There's never a situation where discovery like reveals, you know, how evil the globalist is or

whatever. No. Yeah. It's like this, they always project and project and project. and project what once they actually get in the fucking deposition room. Yeah, they collapse in Stonewall. Yeah, and they fight back against a discovery going the other direction to make sure that, you know, the less information you know about their sort of media empire, the better.

And I think some of the most revealing stuff that ended up being offered in discovery was the, you know, the text messages that accidentally got turned over to Mark Bankston in the course. Alex did not intend for those messages and his phone to get turned over to the plaintiff's attorneys. His lawyer, Renal, accidentally sent those to him and just forgot to clear it up. Moment of grace. Yeah, beautiful. There's a ton of stuff that was not meant to be provided to the lawyers that ended up being provided

and illustrated and showed that Alex withheld intentionally and strategically a bunch of stuff that would relate to Sandy Hook, would relate to his contacts with like Wolfgang Halbig and other, you know, actual harassers. So I have a question about that. Do you think that without that accidental sending of the email where they like leaked all this, you know, pretty sensitive to the case information? Do you think the case had a chance of going the other way? Well, no, it had already been defaulted at that point. When that revelation happened, they were in the damages stage of the case already. because of the withholding of information.

But I think that legally speaking, it gave Alex way less of a case that he didn't withhold stuff. Because they were required to turn over everything that was responsive in his texts and emails to certain words like Sandy Hook or the plaintiff's names. And one of the texts that was in this trance of stuff that accidentally got turned over way too late

was a text between Alex and Paul Joseph Watson where they were talking. about COVID and Alex's theories that all of the people in the hospitals were fake and shit and Paul Joseph Watson said to him this is Sandy Hook all over again and Alex said I know and that would have been responsive to what the lawyers demanded

that he turned over and it was withheld so it was a literal concrete example of something that like you say you cooperated with discovery but this would have been like with a bullet the first thing you turned over and instead you didn't turn it over. So I think it hobbled his ability to, like, say that he was screwed. I would like get your take.

Well, first of all, on Alex Jones exiting InfoWars and, like, you know, going out on his own. Does he actually, like, lose anything because he doesn't have control of the InfoWars brand? And now he has to, like, publish under the Alex Jones name now. Nothing but dignity and, like, legacy, I think. You know, like, InfoWars is a brand that he built for. from basically nothing to what it is, a great pill empire. Yeah. But, like, no, because in the course of these lawsuits,

he's known that, like, the end was coming eventually. And so what they did was very strategically, start shifting all the money and all of the businesses around from, like, InfoWars Store to Dr. Jones Naturals, to the Bigley, the company that he works with now. So they've been able to redirect all. all of the money streams into businesses that he doesn't technically own, so they're outside of the scope of what the bankruptcy courts can touch.

So he'll be able to draw a salary from these things, and he'll be under the, like, umbrella of that bankruptcy personally for the rest of his life. But, you know, it's like what OJ had with the, like, civil liability for the murders. Like, he was under a judgment to the families for the rest of his life, but he was still rich. And that's basically what Alex will have, probably for the rest of his life. I see the similarities between him and OJ

that they're both innocent. And great athletes. Yeah, they're both all-time athletes. Heisman trophy winner, Alex Jones. They call Alex Jones the juice, but it's a reference to Jack Daniels. Yeah. He, like, I think, I think that,

my perspective on him, after watching way too much of his show, is that he's somebody who really, really loves lore. He loves the idea of like campfire stories that your grandpa would tell you while sitting out waiting for the beans to cook or something. And I think he always thought of himself as being a mythical larger-than-life character.

And I think the lawsuits and having to retreat to this shell company, this kind of stuff, I think it hurts his ability to ever be that. He's never going to be a ghost rider on the storm. You know, like, he's kind of a loser. And I think that sucks for him. And on some level, as much as it sucks to say, I think he would have been so much better off

if he died in like 2018. And it's kind of unfortunate that he has many, many more years to live out and just become a like gradually less important douche. online. Now you're wandering into Julian territory. Oh yeah? You got a time machine? Nope, just wishing death upon your enemies. But you're

doing it more subtly than I am, so we're not going to have to beep you or anything. Let me be clear. I'm not wishing death upon him. I'm saying he should wish death upon himself. Dan, Obama's reason. Let me be clear. I don't want him to die. I just was saying that for his own sake. My most centric take, Alex should want himself

dead in the past, not me. And nobody's going into the past, despite some of the predictions, you know, that Dan and Jordan made. Yeah, I got a nice media empire there. Be a shame if you kept living. One, you know, ongoing is, I guess it still has resolved. A consequence of InfoWars, no longer being the property of Alex Jones, is that the Onion's parent company is working towards acquiring it. And the plan is still technically legally unsettled. The proposed deal would give the Onion a temporary exclusive license to enforce trademarks,

copyrights website and social media accounts, while a receiver works towards liquidation. But a Texas appeals court paused the transfer and a new hearing was set for May 28th, 2026. That's two days from now when we're recording. The onions plan, if approved, is to turn the platform into sort of like a comedy parody operation under Tim Heidegger's creative direction with profits or revenue streams benefiting Sandy Hook families. It's an audacious idea. It's Very controversial, but I'm curious how you feel about this idea of like turning the info ward into a vehicle for a for satire. Well, I think I'm agnostic to whether or not that idea works.

And I think that I've been pretty clear at my positions in the past about like, I think when you make a parody of Alex is really, really difficult to do. And it often ends up backfiring. So I generally think people are better off not doing that. But bigger picture, in terms of that. this, like, I decided to join up and help as a consultant during the Sandy Hook trial because I felt like I had information that could be helpful, and to not do it would be to withhold that information. Once that involvement ended, and now it's kind of like collections type

stuff, I really don't have a position. I feel like the people who are working with the plaintiffs, they know what they want. They know what the people who Alex owes all this money to want. And I think that whatever those decisions are is what should happen. So I try to be like as outside of that and not invested in whatever they decide to do as possible. That said, I think, I mean, Tim Teidecker's even said this, that a parody of Alex would run out of juice pretty quick. And that there's only a certain amount of time they could do that before wanting to, turn the site into something else creative and comedic.

And I think there's some interesting possibilities you could do there. It doesn't solve whatever problem Alex represents. And I don't know what would, but yeah, I say good luck. I hope, I wish them the best. Yeah, I'm not sure how it'll turn out. Like, I think in my imagination, I think like the best case scenario to turn like in fours and kind of like a digital head on a pike be like all these are like serious consequences that you that can happen to you if you just spread bullshit wantonly and you hurt people

in the process. You could have something that you worked for decades to build up, taken away from you, and given to your enemies. And it would be nice of like this sort of a living online sort of a museum of that story, you know? Yeah, I think that's true. But I think that there's a double-edged sword to it that you also then provide, because Alex's head is not on a pike, really. And you allow him to use the image of that as a victimhood story.

And like they cared so much about shutting me up that they put my head on a pike over here. And I don't think that's a reason not to do it, but it's a reality of like this bullshit media ecosystem. Like you have to be prepared for that. Yeah, I think my opinion here is like, I wish them luck. I am not sure they can get out of this like Schadenfreude like trap. that essentially does not provide justice, nor is it particularly funny. So I'll be the devil's advocate and say that I don't think it has legs.

But I also think that people involved are cool. And so it's like, hey, I mean, shit, you know, prove me wrong. Like, show me, show me where, where this can work. It just, it seems really tenuous. And a lot of it is based in, like, revanchist fantasy, which I think we have plenty of. Yeah, and that may be. And I think that's, you know, I think it's, you know, I think it's, totally fair to think, like, well, this might not be a good idea comedically or even, like,

strategically from an information war perspective, I guess. But yeah, my feeling on it is largely to err on the side of like the plaintiff's attorneys are talking to the plaintiffs, and they're involved in this. So me saying like, hey, I don't think that that's going to be as funny as you think it is, so you shouldn't do it. I think that presupposes that I know more about what they want than they do. And that's, I try to avoid that. Yeah, I mean, I think I agree that like most people couldn't make it work. But, you know, I guess, I guess I am giving the benefit of the doubt because I do think

the people behind it are pretty, you know, upstanding and talented. So, you know, I'm willing to like, you know, at least have, have hope that it has a chance of succeeding. Yeah. I always think it's good that there's, like, more conspiracy content paraded as satire or, you know, having a little fun with it. You know, there have been people who have come up to me at live shows and stuff and said that they were pilled and that listening to QAA sort of helped them kind of like

laugh at themselves and sort of, you know, woke them up a little bit. And, you know, QAA did that for me. You know, being friends with Julia. You're right, we should take over Q&ON. We should start posting his Q&ON. I've been saying this for years behind the scenes, never out loud on the podcast. But, you know, it's a new year. No, maybe we could sue and get the trip code.

on 8 Coon. And yeah, yeah, really, really say, and try it, take it over that way. Oh, you think it's, you think it's sinister? Have you met LGBTQ-N-on? LGBTQ-Anon? You know, to whatever extent that's possible, Jake, I think that's a great thing for people to aspire towards creating more of. But I also do think that, like, we have to be cognizant of how much that is a, like, consumer-side process. Like, the person who's taking in the has to be able to laugh at themselves. They have to...

And it's good to create that stuff, but we kid ourselves to think that, like, someone who's deep in it is going to respond to being mocked. And, like, ha-ha, oh, I see why what I believe is silly. Yeah. Well, and we didn't set out to do that. I should make that very clear. Sure.

It's just anecdotally. But I agree. And I was going to say, you know, at this point, I think there's very little that would change somebody's mind, you know, that would pull somebody very, very, very deep in it. I think mostly at this point people have kind of chosen, you know, their, their bundle in Travis's marketplace of realities, so to speak. Yeah.

And I think that having said what I said, I still, I think it's always better to still do it than not, you know, still create the opportunities for people to see the silliness of their beliefs than not. Let me ask you this. I mean, did you stop watching Alex Jones content after you completed the last episode? I did stop for a bit. And then we had a live show commitment after we decided that we were going to end the show. And it was at a venue that was set up and run by a friend of ours in the Chicagoland area.

And so we're like, we're still doing it. We got to still do it. And so after we had decided to quit, I stopped taking in nearly as much of his content, maybe almost zero. And then I had to prepare this live episode. and I went back to listening to it. And it was kind of like, I don't know, I've never done like heroin, but I imagine, you know,

you're off for a while and then you take it and it feels so different. You know, it feels like, oh my God, this is, like, there's something familiar about this, but it's not the same. And I don't, I'm not going to say I'm never going to listen to him again,

but I definitely have been listening, like, almost none. I don't really care what he has to say. I just say, I feel like some, like cognitive scientists should like be attaching electrodes to your head or something to understand like what it's like to go from nine years of like absorbing this every single week to you know weeding off going cold and then you know not having uh you know these kinds of narratives pumped into

your head constantly even from a critical perspective well i i just i also should say like i you know we've we stopped doing the show but it's impossible for me to like say that i'm not going to do anything with the information and the knowledge that I've accumulated. So, like, I'm still doing some stuff that uses this, and I'm still, sadly, being exposed to these kinds of narratives. So I wouldn't say I'm cold turkey, but man, way less, way less. It's good. You deserve it. You deserve a rest. And if you did hook up electrodes to my brain, I would say that it's a positive. It's definitely, I don't miss hearing his, let me qualify this. Back to my obfx. impression. Let me qualify this. If I were only listening to like mid-2000s, Alex, I think that

a lot of it could be fairly tolerable. But in the age of him just like doing a Twitter recap show and just being mad about nothing and living in the Trumpian America, like, I don't ever want to listen to that show. That show sucks. That show sucks. Nobody wants to see like the winner, winner and winterland complaining about losing. And I think that his relevance is, is probably way less than it was, too. Like, I think that there's, as you all probably encounter pretty regular, there's a lot more, like, relevant and dangerous people in other corners of the internet than he is now.

Yeah. Yes, he's been somewhat defanged. And that's his own fault. If he just died in 2018, fang is still intact. He should have never made the choice to come back because he did die, actually. And he was up there walking around and they gave him a choice. They said, you could stay here for eternity and,

Find out, we actually, when you die, we give you a big book and it tells you the truth of the world. You can finally learn everything that's real. They're like, or you can go back down and kind of see where it goes. And he did make that horrible choice to come back down. So it's tough, you know, sort of like an all dogs go to heaven sort of deal. But yeah, he chose poorly. There's a certain brilliance to that, though, because you would then know that there is a book that contains the truth about everything. And we don't know that.

We haven't been given this option. So you could pretend that you read that book. You could trick everyone. That's right. That's right. He could become an NDE guy. Which is just basically back to like the first. That's basically just Alex Jones.

Well, he had to, God told him when he was a kid, all of the truths and everything that was going to happen. And, you know, so he's a psychic and he's good. Didn't see this one coming though. Yeah. So do you have like any. immediate plans for the future to return to, you know, maybe creating content. You know, guys, I always liked your style of close reading, which is like, you know, something

you don't see a lot in sort of like even good skeptical content. Well, first of all, thank you. That's very nice to hear. I don't have a specific plan in this lane just yet. I think that something may come to me down the road. But I have a project that I'm working on that incorporates some travel. and some storytelling and Americana, let's say, things. So I'm working on that, and hopefully that'll be able to start releasing that soon.

But yeah, I think eventually I will, like whatever, I don't know, Malcolm Gladwell, he sucks, right? We don't like Malcolm Gladwell. We don't like him. But that 10,000 hours thing is still in our brains. And I did, I've done 10,000 hours of deconstructing and looking at these conspiracies and this kind of information. And I don't think that that call will ever dissipate. Like, I think that I'll still, I'll still want to use that somehow. Maybe I'll do a show about Malcolm Gladwell.

I don't think there is one yet. I did flirt with the idea of like, okay, I hate Adam Carolla. I'm going to do a show about Adam Carolla. But I don't think I can do that. Call it like the swinging moment. Boy, you're going from one grading voice to another. Yeah, yeah. I have a lot of deep-seated love line-based

trauma to work through. Me too. Oh man, we must be almost exactly the same age. Both those guys turned out to be such schmucks. So disappointing. And the writing was there on the wall the whole time. We were just kids. Kids.

We were kids. Yeah. Drew, he says he's got something leaking out of the tip. All right, all right. I saw Adam Carolla recently. I was like driving around and I went, wait a minute. That's Adam Carolla. He was like crossing the street in front of me and it was.

Did you yell get it on? Got to get it on. Must get it. No, I just was like, I was like, man, I just like quietly thought in my head like about how much love line I listened to and how both him and Dr. Drew became schmucks. Total asshole. Dan, where can people find you on social media nowadays? Oh, sure. I don't do a whole lot of social media stuff because I don't know.

It makes me angry and I think everyone else is pretty angry. But my website for this new Travely project that I'm working on is show me. state of mind.com. And so people can find me there. And there's also, I'm running a campaign to try and replace Jeff Probst as the host of Survivor. And so there's a link to that on that website as well. Oh, man, you would crush you would crush it.

I mean, yeah. I mean, he's got to quit eventually. He's been doing it for, yeah, so long. Yeah. And this season, he rapped. And it was just, oh, my God. It was so embarrassing. Like he wrapped, wrapped the show.

He, like, hip-hop rapped. My name's Jeff Probs. And I'm here to say. That kind of thing. It was... Pull the Jake, huh? No, I don't do that ABC mother goose rap. My bars are better than that.

This was mother goose as hell. I don't even do the standard... In my rapping days, I didn't even do the standard, like, white guy rap, which is, like, try to, as many, it's like, the hypotheses, the hyperboleys, the prophecies. You know, how, like, white guys do... Like, I had better bars than that, even. Thesaurus ass rapping. Yeah, thesaurus-ass rapper.

Look, I've got nothing against rap. I love hip-hop. It's one of my favorite genres. I just don't want to see Jeff Proops doing it on Survivor. No, he can't be doing. My name is Jeff, and I'm here to say. I'm surviving hosts in a mazer way. Jeff Proops, what's it rhyme with?

Yeah, that's host. I'm the Proops with the most. Oh, my. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. My name is Jeff, and I am the best. Like, not even really doing rhymes, just like the first half of the word, not the last. All right. Now we're getting into goof territory.

This is when you know. This is when you know it's time. All right, Dan. Thank you so much for coming on this show. I mean, Knowledge Fight, I think, the archives are still going to be valuable. You guys are legendary, man. And, yeah, this is, I think it's a, I mean, that's a long time. I think it's one of the great feats of podcasting.

So, yeah, so it's just amazing work. And I really hope we can stay in touch in the future. Absolutely. I'm always available. And thank you for saying that. That really means a lot. And I want to also, if anybody is worried, those archives will remain there. Those aren't going anywhere.

So if people want to listen to all thousand episodes, dig in. Join the team, buddy. Will you, Dan, ever listen to the episodes again? No. No, no, no. I think I, no, no, I can't handle it. No, this is a painting that has been signed. It's been shipped off.

It's going to hang on. digital walls for eternity. But you're not touching this thing anymore. Nah. You put in your work, dude. You put in the hours. It's time. It's time to get a break. This guy's toxic, man. You got a, you know, you got a D. Don't call Dan toxic. No, no, no. I meant, you know, I meant, you know, Mr. Jones.

Mr. Jones and me break were up forever. Oh, please God. The great regret of my career is never doing a song parody of that. Well, maybe that can be some kind of swan song, some final act. I'm recording this with you guys from Undisclosed location in West Virginia So I'm gonna oh hell yeah I'll go hike in the woods and

Consider a Counting Crow's parody Okay, I'll back you all I can play guitar Look at the beautiful documents Everybody hates me We all want to be Bill Cooper Oh, and Schroier says, no, she's a little more. Okay, I think now is a great time for me to promote superstructure. Yes, Julian, Julian, tell us.

With John Gabris, go check it out at superstructurepodcast.com. We've been covering Ruby Ridge and the late Great Planet Earth, which is a book that heavily inspired Vicky Weaver to spin off into her religious mania that led to Ruby Ridge the event, which obviously I'm not just blaming on that, but, you know, it's a complex and interesting matter. We covered that. We're about to cover Hondurasgate and the origins of NATO.

So we're out there covering structures of power, and, you know, soon we're going to do some weather underground stuff. It's going to be really fun. So please come and join us, superstructurepodcast.com. I'll say this. I have a tiny little plug. I'm working on a video game. What?

Yes. Ultimate full circle event. Full circle event. You're finishing up GTA6? Yes. Yes, absolutely. That's so cool. They gave you the main role and like did your body scan and everything.

I'm playing both. I'm playing the guy and the girl and it's tough because like the whole game kind of is like about their relationship and like going on dates and stuff. It's very strange. But I do both voices and it's going to be great. But no, I've been getting back into drawing and like doing art and talk about not doom scrolling. like trying to sit down and draw stuff instead of like doom scrolling all the time which has been lovely good advice yeah lovely good for the brain good for the brain we got we got

three sick four sickos here we need to we need to detox thanks for listening to another episode of the q a podcast you can go to the patreon dot com slash qaa and subscribe for five bucks a month to get an additional episode for every free one plus access to our entire archive of premium episodes. For everything else, we have a website, that's QaA.a Podcast.com. Listener, until next week, may the Deep Dish bless you and keep you. We have auto-keyed content based on your preferences. I never bluff, folks. If you knew what we had, the whistleblowers, the documents, we have royal flushes. They are screwed to the moon. And all glory goes to Jesus Christ and our Heavenly

Father that leads guys and erect us. We are committed. ourselves to God in this holy fight, and we are committed. And if God stands with us, who can stand against us? And that's how I close out. So I salute you all. What a crew. The hell we've been through has only made us stronger. Let me ask you, would you have any other way?

No. Are you not stronger now in this fight? Yeah. I salute this crew and all the viewers and listeners to this fight, and I commit myself to Jesus Christ's hands. Bless the Info War! Woo! You are the info where it lives forever.

We're going to play Frank Sinatra, Blue Eyes, and come back with the great Tom Rends and then J.D.R. To close this out, God bless you all. That's it. The next phase starts. The real war begins now.