Quick Question with Soren and Daniel - Back On Our Shit About Hospitals Again

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

The guys discuss Daniel's persistent back pain and the struggle to continue his intense fitness regimen, incomprehensible communications with his health insurance company that somehow involve four different dollar amounts, and the existential crisis of being told by a smug younger doctor that he's simply "getting old," plus their continued quest to be the gentle alternative to Joe Rogan's podcast empire.Follow the guys on Bluesky:https://bsky.app/profile/sorenbowie.bsky.social/https://bsky.app/profile/danielobrien.bsky.socialThanks to Rocket Money for sponsoring this episode. RocketMoney.com/qq.  Reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money.

Stretching is bullshit so I don't do it. Now that that's out of the way. Why am I in pain all the time? It's not important, I'm just glad that we could talk tonight So what's your favorite? How did you get? When did I beat your numbers? Words without a word at all, though How do we know? Oh, forget it I saw a movie, Daniel O'Brien

Two best friends and comedy writers If there's an answer, they're gonna find it I think you'll have a great time here So hello again and welcome to another episode of Quick Question with Sorin and Daniel podcast where two best friends and comedy writers give each other quick questions in search of long answers. I am one half of that podcast, seen and read for last week tonight with John Oliver, author of How to Fight Presidents, Daniel O'Brien.

Joining us always have my co-host, Mr. Storma Bowie. Soren, say hello. Hey everybody, I'm Storma Bowie. I'm a writer for American Dad. I like the way that you consistently are still thinking about, or maybe this is all in the fly, but thinking about like what the show actually is.

Yeah. Like that's a pretty concise explanation for what we're doing. It's a quick question. We're giving each other these quick questions and then we're searching for time for answers. Yeah, whatever it is that I said. So Soren, I have a sub stack where I send monthly book recommendations just to hold myself accountable to read more books and to have a place to

contact the most diehard of followers and subscribers that I've ever had. And in one of those, in lieu of books, I just did essentially what our friend Jason Parchin does every couple of years, which is just like, here's who I am, here's how you might know me, here's all the work that I've done in the past, just like to preserve the, I don't know, almost 20 year. Internet footprint. Yeah, yeah, my resume basically.

And part of it was a section where I just describe this podcast. It's tough, buddy. Even when I would like dive into like how I would seriously describe the podcast where it's like it started as this fuck around podcast, but like quietly we want to offer this up as sort of gentle alternative to Joe Rogan's and Jordan Peterson's of the world. Not that we're trying to be the left Joe Rogan or anything like that but just for people to see examples of

healthy Men and male friendships where they are they are Like open and vulnerable and working on themselves and working me better even as I'm saying what like we both quietly think the podcast is, I'm like, I don't know about all that. I don't know if that sounds good. I don't know how, if we wanna- Here's the thing, you can't, you can't explain,

you can't ever, you're never gonna be able to articulate the chemistry or like, here's why it works. The same way when I was younger and I was like trying to be an actor in Los Angeles and I'd tell people, I'm trying to be an actor or I'm an actor. They'd be like, oh cool, because they've met 47,000 people who are trying to be an actor

and they're all this like cookie cutter thing. And you can't be like, but you see I'm different. You can't do that. You can't, I'm with my children. I know that my son, my son is the best of us. Like he's such a good person. But like when I'm talking to new teachers and like, tell me something about your kid.

I'm like, you're gonna love him. I know that every parent says that. I know that every parent thinks that the teacher should absolutely love their child. They're wrong. You're gonna love him. Like you can't, there's no way to articulate the thing that everybody thinks that the teacher should absolutely love their child. They're wrong. You're gonna love him. Like you can't, there's no way to articulate the thing that everybody already thinks they are.

Right. You just happen to be, and somebody has to be it. Yeah. Because otherwise it wouldn't exist in the first place. Anyway, that's the show. I was also, I'm growing a bit more self-conscious about the intro to this podcast because of a funny bit that my wife does now.

When I say I'm about to record the podcast, she, without looking up from whatever she's doing, will go, so la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la John Oliver, hello, hello. She auctions off your entire career. Yeah. OK.

That is just like the, you'll see videos every once in a while where they'll take someone who doesn't speak English and they'll say like, this is what English sounds like to a non-English speaker. Right. And they just do like a bunch of American ish sounding words in an American accent. And every once in a while, you'll get in like a couple of words in there. That's my wife doing an impression of me doing this podcast.

Just like the cadence and the rhythms and the and the weird sharp upticks and how I speak and occasionally clear words will shine through. That's... You're getting bullied, first of all. But... I mean, like Wobegon, like, he does the same intro for that. It's got the same cadence and everything.

I could do that little sing-song-y blah-blah version of that for anybody who wants it. But it's a... There's also, it's like really comforting to hear that, the same intro all the time. Yeah. Did Lake Wobegon, Garrison Keillor got canceled for something, right? Probably. I don't remember.

I think maybe he was, yeah, maybe not so great with some gas. Fine. Does that sound right? Yeah. Or some movies that he worked on the show. I don't know. That sounds closer to true. Oh, it not so great with some guests. Fine. Does that sound right? Or some things that worked on the show? That sounds closer to true. Oh, it's so hard.

But here's the thing. I guarantee somebody somewhere is saying that same thing about you. Like, we don't know. Like, we don't know what happened with Garrison Keillor. So surely, like, along the way, people are just like, no, they've been around long enough. Surely they did something. Right. I imagined if someone followed us on Cracked and then never anywhere else, and as far as they know, we just disappeared one day.

It's reasonable for them to draw the conclusion, I guess they must have just been like a fucking sex pest or something. I don't know. I can't think of any other reason why I don't see Soren on YouTube anymore. I was like, he's there. But my son was saying like, he was talking about he's got buddies. He's like they're who are on YouTube.

He talks about how they're on YouTube because they, I don't know what they're making. They're making videos on their trampoline or something. And he's like, I kind of want to, can I do something for YouTube? And I was like, no. of want to can I do something for YouTube? And I was like, no Why would you want to do that? He's like you used to do YouTube and I was like I did. Oh, yeah, I did No, it's it don't do it. Yeah, let that ship sail I hate to break it to you and your son

But but you kind of still do YouTube soren for our listeners who don't know the podcast is also on YouTube But did you ever feel like you were a YouTube personality? No, something completely different. I yeah come not like an exciting but like we weren't blazing trails We were behind we were doing sketch comedy still would know it would know like sketch guy rooms like no sketch companies dumb It's bad. It's over right we were like now what if there's still some water left in this rock? Yeah We were doing we didn't start making videos technically before youtube started but it was youtube was not enough of a cultural behemoth

that uh, everyone was on it, so we were making sketch videos on like a different video player because different video players used to exist. And that's how old we are and how non YouTubers we are. We are we were filmmakers. Speaking of our age, so I've got some health updates for you. I've, it's not been great. It's fine.

It's- Wait, is this more injury stuff? It's really the same injury. It's, I am finally getting my back looked at and I've had chronic back pain. And there's stages of it where when I'm filling out the forms to see the orthopedic doctor, where it's like, when did the pain start?

I give a fake number. And then when I meet him in person, I give him a closer to the truth number. And then in my soul, I have the real number. So like I'm on the paper and it's like, I guess it's been hurting for about two months. And then I see him and it was like, bro, this happened last summer. This has been going on for 10 months now.

And at the back of my mind, I'm like, has our back ever really felt good? Was there ever a time when it wasn't difficult? Folks, we love Rocket Money. We love subscriptions. But sometimes we love subscriptions too much and that's a problem. I this morning realized that I had been paying for a certain streaming service that I am not allowed to name. I had been paying for it twice from two different credit cards and I never noticed

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Go to rocketmoney.com slash QQ today. That's rocketmoney.com slash QQ. Rocketmoney.com slash QQ. Do it. Is this upper back, lower back? Where are we? This is lower right side of my back and some of my glute, my upper ass. It's not totally bad faith to say that this started last summer. There was a workout class that I did and I was moving fast and not paying great attention to form because it's a class setting and speed and there's people looking at you so I'm just sort of like, look how strong and fast.

And I was doing kettlebell swings, which is not an exercise that I do. I just don't fuck with kettlebells often except in this class. And it hurt my back and I took a little bit of time off from all the stuff that I do. And then I stopped taking time off and just kept living my life and working out. And sometimes it would flare up and I would calm down for a little bit. Sometimes I would do like a heating pad. But at this point, it being 10 months

of truly no like actual full 100% relief, I more than anything was, I'm just curious, like what, what is this? What did I do? And- Well, let's like figure it out today. Let's make that a good question.

I think we could solve this. We did. Well, I got an x-ray. And like going to doctors is a huge step for me as listeners of this podcast well know. So I get the x-ray and the doctor, he prescribed two things, well, three things. A strong pain reliever to take as needed and physical therapy.

I'm supposed to do three times a week for six weeks and an MRI that I'm getting soon that's going to give a closer look at this Cause we did the x-ray and he pointed out some degeneration on L1. Oh, I was gonna get L7. Oh really? Yeah. Well, you would have lost. I don't know why. I'm feeling bad for you.

And a lot of it he said was like, this is just like a thing that happens when you're in your late 30s getting older. This is a very common thing. And the MRI is what I'm really waiting for. I want to see if there's like a disc situation. You can't tell that by feeling or by x-ray. MRI is the ticket that's going to tell you what exactly is going on back here and So I'm really looking forward to that to try to get to the bottom of this mystery

But in the meantime when he told me about this painkiller this this prescription painkiller I This is after I grew into my history of like here's how I got injured Here the workouts that I do. I exercise about six times a week between going to the gym and lifting and running, I'm doing something. And then when he told me about the painkiller, I was like, now, just, I wanna make sure I'm doing things safely.

So like, it would be irresponsible of me to take this painkiller before a workout, right? Because like, I, cause if I don't feel the pain, then I might aggravate it further. That would a workout, right? Because if I don't feel the pain, then I might aggravate it further. That would be crazy, right? Soren, this is me talking to this guy to be like, I'm smart, we're both educated guys, we know how the body works.

And he pauses and he goes, no, you stop working out now. You stop working out and running until physical therapy is done. What? Yeah And I didn't like that and even you're not bedridden even Shay my wife who is who is very Pro doctor and very pro like taking rest when you need to take rest and not over-exerting yourself and

And is very good about looking after me. She knows how load bearing running is for my mental health as well as my physical health. So when I told her what the doctor said, she was like, I think you can still probably run. It's like, yeah, I think we both agree that the machine needs to run, you know, period. And I think I don't wanna come down too hard on all doctors because I love doctors.

The pit's my favorite show of all time now. But this doctor is in slightly worse shape than I am. I'm being kind. This doctor is in slightly worse shape than I am. Yeah. I'm being kind. He's just kind. And he's- He's trying to get you on his level. Younger. And I think that this is an unsustainable solution,

but I do think there should be a doctor like you for every single person. That's actually a really good idea. Yeah, that's just great. You should have your physical match as your doctor. Because he's younger, and I don't know exactly how much younger he is, but I'm 39. So when he sees 39, he thinks 40 and maybe he thinks 45. And maybe he has a whole idea of what 40 and 45 year olds are like and what that life is. And he has just pushed me into a category of old dads or something. Let's say he's 32 and I come in and I'm just

about 40 and I'm complaining about back pain. To him, that's just like, yeah, this is old guy stuff. Stop running. Your back hurts because you're old. Stop running, stop lifting weights. What are you even doing lifting weights anymore? You should be working at a bank. You're one foot in the grave.

What is the point? One foot in the grave, what is the point? Like I need someone who understands me and feels the way I feel and like sees regular fitness and maintenance as like essential. And not just like, well, this is what you get for exercising when you're old. Couldn't be me, I'm 32 and I'm going to live for fucking ever. It's so funny to hear you talk about this after like, you know, we've been online.

I know you've been there. You have the same internet as me. Do you talk about this, like this like glancing, glancing moment where you got a peek into the world of being like a fat woman. I know. Or like any race other than white man. Everything has to change because my doctor doesn't totally understand me. You people have no idea what it's like. He is seven years younger than me.

Do you have no idea what it's like. He is seven years younger than me. Do you have any idea? It's like we're speaking different languages. Yeah, it's reminding me of, you really will listen to Search Engine. They, you did a podcast once, it was like a crossover podcast with a podcast called Wait For It.

And I'd always heard that like, it's really tough when you go into a doctor and you're overweight, because the doctor immediately, no matter what you're there for, the doctor doctor is like it's because you're fat. Right. And like that's just like what they deal with. And I was like, well, I mean, that can't that's got to be some hyperbole. And then this guy records his doctor like this guy on way for it goes into a doctor records his doctor talking to him. And you're like, oh shit,

you talk to people like that? Like the doctors are, they believe everything is because of like, whatever body type you've got, if it's different than theirs, they're like, well, this is the fucking problem. Oh, you're not a man? That's where you went wrong. You should have been like me. So you say you like doctors.

Like I disagree almost across the board, except for a few. I like, I've been misdiagnosed for things constantly. And same tentative, I don't go to doctors often because as a child, I was brought up the same way you were where everyone was like, what are you? Can you get out of bed? Then just don't go to a doctor. Don't waste their time. Don't bother the school nurse. Don't annoy the doctor with your shit. So the few times that I've been to a doctor

with to have gotten misdiagnosed that number of times with only going to the doctor like five times in my life, that's, it's bad. It's like they're not taking the time or I'm just getting bad doctors. I just got a bad run of it. What you're describing though of like having a doctor that is in your same demographic

basically is a great idea. I think that that would rule because I'd say the same thing. Like I've been to doctors. Yeah, go ahead. Not even just, I know I made the point, but not even just like demographic and age, but like I want a 39 year old doctor who runs 60 to 100 miles a month. I need someone that that understands like Like what running means to me and what it does for me and how Impossible a pill it is to swallow for him to just say oh just stop running if your back hurts and you run

I don't know, maybe quit running. It's like, maybe quit breathing, you fuck. What are you talking about? Right. Yeah. I've had that experience where I go and that's why I was so excited about this orthopedic surgeon who told me about my fucked up leg was because everybody else that I went to, when I would like have an injury or something, I'd be like, so do I, how long will I be out of commission for this? And they're like, oh, you shouldn't be lifting anything or running or anything for at least two months. And I'd be like, why did you say it like,

that was like, oh, you should already know this. That's like devastating news to me. Try to consider like the type of person you're talking to, how much of my life I've dedicated to this, just trying to keep myself healthy. And now you're like, oh, why were you trying to keep yourself healthy? Oh, because we told you to do that

every time you came in here? Oh, that was dumb of you. You shouldn't be doing this. Oh, for your heart? Oh. Well, great, you saved your heart. Now your back's gonna kill you. So who's smart?

I'm sorry that that's happening, Daniel. Are you running on it? Yeah, of course I am. I do want to tell the doctor, he's like, hey, you got to quit running and quit lifting. And then I'm like, all right, then you are responsible for whatever I do to fill that time now. And maybe you don't want to own that. Maybe you don't want to see what happens when an angry in pain guy has nothing but time on his hands.

We're going to get to know each other real well, Doc. So I got my second opinion from my brother who was an occupational therapist, and he is also in shape and runs a lot. And I told him this and he was like, you can probably still run. I was like, great. That's the answer I wanted. Let's open a beer and celebrate.

And I got the answer I wanted from my physical therapist who to completely upend the medical change I want to see in the world is an older woman, but she is my PT. And I met with her for the first time yesterday and I told her the same thing that the quack doctor said about not being able to run or lift anymore. And she said, no, what you need to do is stretch because, correct me if I'm wrong, you don't stretch. I was like, that's 100% right. You spent five minutes with me and she's like, oh, you've never stretched in your life. Is that fair?

Like, that's totally fair. Stretching is bullshit so I don't do it. Now that that's out of the way, why am I in pain all the time? She explained, what you need to do is stretch. You need to add stretching in to address the pain that you're having. If you add stretching in, but take away running and working out and you get better, you won't know why you got better. You won't know if it's because the stretching is working or because you quit your things. So do what you normally do, add in the stretching and see if you find improvement.

I was like, I like that attitude. Don't change a thing except adding things. That's good news for me. The bad news is still like the concern is the initial diagnosis that I am getting older might turn out to be true as hard as that is to believe because even the PT was like, you'll get your MRI and we'll see if there's something major back there. But like this is things deteriorate with age and what stretching can do is make sure it doesn't get worse. No one so far has said anything in the direction of here is how we will fix your back and glute

forever. Okay. All right. I think it's just like mitigating it and making it slightly better. But the concern is mostly not worse. That is, I think at our age, all that's left to us with these kind of nonspecific injuries. So I know some people now who have... The reason I guessed L7 was because there's just people

in my life who are suddenly struggling with L7 disks. Awon was a skateboarder for a living shortly. And so his is clear. The trajectory happened because he was doing 12 stairs and then landing very, very hard throughout his entire younger life. And now his L7, they're like, oh, it's not there anymore. You completely got rid of this juicy disc back there and now it's just bone on bone. And another one was just a woman who, mother of two, not a skateboarder, wasn't doing like a high impact sports her whole life, just happened to her too. And she's the one who actually ended up having to get surgery for it.

So there is like a thing that they do. It's very invasive, I think. And you're laid up for a very long time if you get it, but they're just adding more juice in there. I don't know what it is, plastic or silicone or whatever it is, but they're putting something in between the bones. They're not rubbing up against each other

or pinching the nerve or whatever happens. He's trying to live with it. It's certainly possible that there is a surgical, an invasive surgical solution to this that no one would recommend. Right. They will bring it up as like, if you really want, we can open your fucking spine and take some meat from your cheek and put it in your back. And then you can run all you want until the next injury. Or you could just like accept the fact that you're getting older and run three times a week instead of five times a week, which I feel like is where this is ultimately

trying to point me towards. That here. I know. I mean, allow me some time for a second to complain about the medical community. I know like Western medicine has come a long way. I'm very excited about the fact that I'm going to live as long as I am, that we have never been healthier in human history, all that disclaimer stuff. Now in terms of like what we do proactively to keep people from ending up in these situations, fucking sucks.

It's so bad. We don't have a system to keep people healthy early. Doctors only see people once they've already got the problem and then they can do something. But I went to... I talked to an ER doctor recently because I happened to be in an ER because I couldn't walk. And when I was there, she was like, I think you should go to physical therapy. Even if it's not for this, it's just, I can't recommend physical therapy high enough because

it's just dialing in your body. They're going to see how you run. They're going to see your gait. They're going to see how you move. They're going to see where you're like, if you're having tendonitis in your body. They're gonna see how you run, they're gonna see your gait, they're gonna see how you move, they're gonna see where you're, like if you're having tendonitis in your elbow, there's a good chance that's starting in your shoulder because your shoulders are too far forward

and you don't have the proper stretching to pull them back. Or if it's in your hips, that might be starting in your back, that might be starting somewhere else. And it's all about like making sure that your body is running as efficiently as possible, which is like, that's what a fucking checkup should be. Like you don't go to a doctor and he's like, now let's see how tall you are, let's see how much you weigh.

Okay, everything seems good. Get me that shit, get me the stuff of like, how am I, is this body doing what it's supposed to be doing or am I fucking this up? Like, am I constantly moving from first to third? Is that a problem? They'd be like, yeah, don't do that here. Here are some other things you could do.

And we're not, we don't do that as a country. If the doctors want to know, I can tell them how much mileage I've put on this thing since the last time they saw me, I track it with an app and they could use that information the same way the Subaru dealership uses that information when I get my car looked at. You have a fucking odometer built in. Yeah. And I want them to just, I don't want them to be like, oh, you don't smoke? No, the things are probably good. It's like, no, there's way more things that I'm probably doing wrong and I just need your help. I just want you to... And the fact that a physical therapist does fill that role. I mean, obviously it's never covered by insurance or anything like

that, but if you can afford it, I don't know. Outside of an injury, you don't have an injury and you try to go to a physical therapist, that's all on you. But they're like, they're going to tune you up. They're going to figure out what the shit is that you're doing wrong and they're like, they're gonna toot you up. They're gonna figure out what the shit is that you're doing wrong and they're gonna fix it. Soren, you've taken us to the next segment of this episode, which is the insurance issue, which is... I know that I'm privileged to have insurance and I'm privileged to have a job where I can cover some things that aren't covered by insurance,

but I sure do still have complaints. The first of them was the painkillers that the doctor prescribed that I got from the pharmacy. The pharmacy said, we called your insurance. We couldn't get ahold of them to pay for this. So you have to pay for it. And I was like, ah, rats, that's terrible. And so I paid for it because I wanted to get out of there. I called the insurance company and I was like, hey, dumb question. We don't really talk that much. Do I have insurance? And what does it do? And they're like, no, absolutely. You're covered. We would cover that. We've received no claims for this medicine. And I was like, oh, fuck. So I called the doctor and I was like,

hey, let me fill you in now. And they're like, yeah, your insurance should absolutely cover that medicine. I was like, I agree. They said there was never a claim filed. So could you, maybe you don't have the right insurance on file, could you check that? And they checked that and they were right.

And they said, oh, the problem must be with the pharmacy. And I was like, great. Will you get it sorted out? Well, I talked to the insurance company and get a reimbursement from them. Because now I have to give a receipt and submit a thing and then wait 6,000 months to get reimbursed because everyone can take their time paying money except for human beings.

And that's where we're at with them. And a few days go by and the doctor's office calls me back and they're like, hey, so we called your pharmacy and we couldn't get a hold of anyone. And I was like, oh yeah, no, that sucks. That's terrible. I was like, yeah, I called like every day this week and I keep getting put on hold and they direct me to someone else. I was like, yeah, I mean.

That's human life. She's just like, yeah. And that's when I realized, oh, you want me to absolve? Okay, all right, I understand. Yeah, you're done. You're off the case. This is no longer your problem. And yeah, I have taken over that. And the next step of the insurance annoyance

was the physical therapist's office called me to say, hey, just so you know, you will have to, for each visit, pay $25. And I said, that sounds fair, which I don't believe. Of course, none of it sounds fair. I feel like I or my employer has been paying money to health insurance since 2001. My direct actions have led to money going into health insurance and seeing nothing of it.

So I feel like the $25 doesn't totally seem fair, but like, sure, I'm not going to get on that soapbox. And then the office explained, now your insurance said that they would pay up to $90 and we accepted that as the amount that we would charge per session. And you are paying 25. And I was like, great, good. And she said, now, if for whatever reason, your insurance doesn't pay, you would be responsible for the difference between that 25 and the $90. So you would pay the rest of it. And I was like, but you said they would pay $9. She said, that's what they said.

I was like, right. Have they given you any indication that they wouldn't pay that? She said, no, but I need to let you know that if they don't, if it just so happens that they don't, you will be responsible. I was like, okay, I don't completely understand this, but it sounds like I'm paying either 25 or worst case scenario, 90. And she said, yes. I was like, great, I understand.

And then I had to sign a form in the office saying I understood that conversation. And she was like, okay, just so you understand. And then I had to sign a form in the office saying I understood that conversation. And she was like, okay, just so you understand. And like $90 is written on the form. And that's what I signed. I was like, great. And I was like, so just like for a final time, let's double check, $90. She's like, yeah, $90 or $110. I said, 110 is a new number.

And she started from the beginning. She's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You shouldn't have to. It's $25, and they'll pay 90. And if they don't pay 90, then you pay the 90 or 110. I was like, OK, but I just don't know where the $110 came from. It feels like a dream. And you explaining it to me again with the same language isn't going to fix things. It feels like a dream.

You explaining it to me again with the same language isn't going to fix things. Let me just, just to get us on the same page, I will never have to pay more than $110 per session no matter what, worst case scenario. She said, yes, no matter what, $115. And I felt like I was in a fucking punked reboot. I didn't understand it. It was like 115 now? She said, yes.

Do you understand? I said, sure. No. Yeah, all right. Jesus Christ. Yeah, so you're never going to get- It seems inevitable that I'm paying $115 per session, right? We can just say that now? No, I think insurance, no. I think insurance, if they, insurance said they cover it. Here's the thing.

Everyone should know this too. You have insurance and if you go into a hospital or physical therapy or anything that's not related to like a sickness, like a, you know, a insurance and if you go into a hospital or physical therapy or anything that's not related to like a sickness, like a disease or a virus or a bacteria, if you get injured, insurance is not gonna pay it. Insurance immediately is gonna be like, no,

and they'll put a hold on all of it. Whatever you got serviced for that injury, they're gonna put a hold on it. And then it's your job to go to them and say, hey, how come you're not paying this? And they're gonna say, well, we didn't know if there was an accident related to work, so we waited. And we wanted to make sure that you're not suing your work.

And you have to be like, it wasn't, I'm not. I would have told you if I was gonna do that. And they're like, well, we have to wait. And then when you tell them, they're like, okay, you gotta fill out some forms that say that this didn't happen at work. And once you do all that, then maybe they will pay it. But it's standard operating procedure for any insurance company to the minute that you have like a broken toe or something like that to be like, we're not paying shit for this because you maybe you're going to sue

somebody for it. The doctor who prescribed the MRI, he wrote that prescription and also said like, now there's a chance your insurance company will say no, and then we will have to fight them on that. And I was like, this is like, we were both commiserating about how fucked up insurance is, where it's like, I'm in pain. You are a doctor. You want an MRI.

Who is insurance in this equation? Who is insurance to come in and say, and I know this is an old story and it's not unique to me, it's universal, but who is insurance to just come in and decide what is medically necessary when there's a patient and a doctor and an MRI tech and they're all on the same page, let's get this thing? It was all very frustrating, but he was just like, I'm just letting you know, they might fight and if they do, I'm just letting you know. They might fight. And if they do, we will fight them on that.

I was like, well, that's good news, I guess. And then a day later, they called and they said, hey, we check with your insurance. And they don't require pre-authorization to get an MRI. So you can go ahead and schedule the MRI. And I thought, that's good news. And then I waited and I thought, no, that's probably bad news. I think that's probably, that's just like kicking the fight down the road. I think it's, it's the insurance company gets

a request that was like, Hey, can we get pre-approval for an MRI? And insurance is like, Oh, buddy, you need to ask us, just get it. This is, get it and then bring us the check. And then we'll see if we think you should have it This is how broken the system is You are it's not even like we try to just blame insurance companies. It's not just them It's it's like I I'm fucking back back on my shit about hospitals again but like the hospitals too if you wanted to get an MRI and you want to pay out of pocket Daniel that might be a Three to five hundred500 thing, like a service. All right? When this gets charged to your insurance, it's going to get charged

at $1,200 because that's how they're making up the cost of where they're losing money everywhere else with the people who can't pay these exorbitant prices. So essentially, humans are these subprime mortgages that they're all taking on, that the hospital is taking on. And the only way they're gonna make up their money is by charging insurance more than they should be charging for any individual thing. And that's the system that we built, like that we are like, oh, this is what works.

This is what we're gonna do. So had you not paid by insurance, had you never had insurance, you would be paying for these out of pocket. And because you haven't had anything super casual, there hasn't been like a perilous casualty in your life. You would have been paying significantly less for every single procedure that you'd ever had done. Then they're actually charging the insurance for, and maybe you would have saved money. Maybe if you had you never paid for insurance, you would be better off right now. But you can't ever like the gamble

is just not worth it because what if all of a sudden you got a degenerative disease at 26 and you had to deal with that and you didn't have insurance, you'd be destitute right now and I'd be taking care of you. You'd be living in this garage, which I'm actually thinking of redoing. It would be nice for you. Yeah. Yeah. You could, you'd be living in this garage, which I'm actually thinking of redoing. It would be nice for you. Yeah. Yeah, you could be here. It's not too like, garage-y, forgive me.

Oh no, man, it sucks. It's pretty, it's pretty dank in here. Not dank in a good way. No. I hope that this is like interesting to anybody else in the world to listen to. But it is a broken system. I'm sorry that you're dealing with it.

Any time that you have to deal with it is a fucking nightmare. I'm glad that you're doing PT though. That's super exciting. Yeah. I mean, I like that too. I think the conversation might not be interesting to any of our listeners because if you've had to deal with the bizarre healthcare system in this country, all of this is old hat. You've been through this and worse and more. If you haven't been through it, then this might go over your head or it might

just seem like, well, not my problem. Or maybe you think your insurance is good because when you signed up at your job, all of your coworkers said that it was really good and it probably on paper looks really good. You know, you'll find out one day. That's what I think. I think we all learn at our own times, at our own paces and levels, but I guarantee you, everyone who... You'll break a wrist or get something else that goes on and then you'll have to go to an ER and visit doctors for the first time in your adult life, and you're going to think that you're the first person this has ever happened to. That's what I'm going through now, where I feel like, like, so what have you heard about

this insurance bullshit? Did you know about this? Do they have that out in California? Because the system is so jarringly mismanaged that it seems like there's no way it's this universally bad. It seems like surely there's been a mistake and it only happened to me. But it's all of us, it's gonna be you two. Death comes last for the healthy man and the end of life is misery everybody. What's that from?

Is that American dead? No, it's the oldest epic. Well, yeah, because we do do the Gilgamesh episode. Oh yeah? Of American dead, yeah. There's a Christmas Gilgamesh episode. So, yeah. A little fun show.

We just make whatever we want, ladies and gentlemen. The warden is not watching. Meanwhile, last week tonight, we'll surely have an upcoming episode about wardens. They're unelected and they're accountable to no one except the governor, and that's wrong because it leads to corruption and cronyism. They run small towns of people that are their slaves. Okay, thank you everybody for listening. What a pleasure this has been. The show is quick question, but you already knew that we are an independent podcast.

It is run by me and Sorin and our editor, engineer, producer, recorder, Gabe Harder. He is our president of podcast operations. We are all findable on Blue Sky and Instagram. You can email the show at qqwithsorinandjaniellatgmail.com. We have a Patreon. If you subscribe and donate to that Patreon, you get this show plus bonus episodes twice a month They're shorter. They're more fun. They're more intimate. They are more career damaging Our theme song is by Merex. You can find them anywhere. You can find music

Those are all the things that I think we need to say about the show if you're not aware that we're on YouTube. We are also on YouTube so you can listen to us there. And you can also get those bonus pods if you subscribe on Apple podcasts. Mike! I wanna hear your thoughts, wanna know what's on your mind I've got a quick, quick question for you, alright The answer's not important, I'm just glad that we could talk tonight So what's your favorite? Who did you get? Who did I meet?

Who did I meet? Who did I meet? Who did I meet? Who did I meet? Who did I meet? Who did I meet? Who did I meet? Who did I meet?

Who did I meet? Who did I meet? Who did I meet? Who did I meet? Who did I meet? Oh forget it Saw a movie, Daniel O'Brien Two best friends and comedy writers If there's an answer they're gonna find it I think you'll have a great time here I think you'll have a great time here