Quick Question with Soren and Daniel - QQ ep 59 - Battle (Friendship) of the Dans! Featuring Dan Kennedy

Episode Date: October 2, 2020

In this episode the Soren and Daniel welcome a very special guest Dan Kennedy! They talk about music, firefighting and how to lean in to being sad.  

Hello again, and welcome to another episode of Quick Question with Soren and Daniel, a show that allows you to eavesdrop, like the party lines of yesteryear, on the only reliable form of communication between two best friends on opposite coasts as they attempt to answer questions about life and, like, love and motivational sex camps, all kinds of stuff. But, of course, we never truly commit to any definitive answers on anything, so the show could just as easily be called Two Men and a Little Maybe. Oh, I love that.

I am one half of the show, writer for American Dad, interim homeschool principal, and according to the IMDb Star Meter, the 67,842nd most popular male actor in the United States, Soren Bowie. And I'm joined as always by Daniel O'Brien. Please, you speak now, Daniel. Yes, holy Hannah, congratulations to you, by the way. I am Daniel O'Brien. I am the author of How to Fight Presidents and another book that is also about presidents,

the name of which escapes me. I'm, as of this recording, a two-time Emmy award-winning writer for Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. And also, as of this recording, a two-time Emmy award-winning writer for Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. And also, as of this recording, deeply hungry. Oh. I forgot to eat this entire day. You've got to stay hungry.

That's what they say. Even after the awards, you've got to stay hungry. Yeah, absolutely. And you say that's what they say. That's what John said. That's what John Oliver, my boss, said. We woke up Monday morning after the Emmys. He called me directly and he was like, stay hungry.

No breakfast today. That is not the English accent. Is that how he sounds? No, that's not John Oliver's accent. That's like an action star Englishman. Okay, yeah. That's like an action star Englishman. Okay, yeah.

So my boss, Jason Statham, called me Monday morning and he was like, Oi, stay hungry. And I was like, you got it, crank. Now, ordinarily at this point we do a COVID update, but we're going to try something new today. This is something a little special for us. We're doing a new thing, a new thing. Man, you had so much time to plan for this.

So I brought a brand new friend on the show to meet you, Dan. And fingers crossed, I think you two are really going to hit it off. Okay. This guest is someone I've been a fan of since reading his first book, Loser Goes First. He's since written to others, Rock On and Office Power Ballad, and most recently American Spirit, which received a starred review from Publishers Weekly. That's more books than you, Dan, if you're keeping track. You might recognize his work from McSweeney's and GQ. You might also recognize his voice from hosting the Moth Radio Hour. And in the near future, you might recognize his name in the credits of his new NBC show,

True Story with Ed Helms and Randall Park. Daniel, I would like you to meet my new pal, Dan Kennedy. Hello. Dan, hello. It's so nice to meet you. I'm, I wish I had arranged my intro differently because you're much more impressive than I am. Yes.

I would have downplayed it if I'd known. I can do like a wonderfully sort of Canadian and Australian thing. I'm neither Canadian nor Australian, but I can tell you that True Story at NBC isn't my show. I can tell you that True Story at NBC isn't my show. I'm just, you know, I'm a story producer at the show. And I can tell you that you've probably only heard me hosting the Moth podcast, maybe not the Moth Radio Hour. So that sort of puts it in. Okay.

That puts it a little less of a tall poppy syndrome kind of thing. What does being a story producer mean? Why, by the way, why am I, why am I trying to gear this towards Australia? Do you guys have like big reach in Australia? No, Queensland. You are right. Okay, good. I had a hunch apparently. I'm just, I don't know. Uh, have I been thinking about Australia? So so being a story producer just is really working with storytellers. You know, the show is a storytelling TV show and it's kind of along the lines of people telling really funny, heartfelt stories. And and then there are kind kind of drunk history-esque recreations that go with it um it was a show in australia for a couple or a few years and um it's

really just a sweet like a just funny heartfelt show i can't say enough good about it um and uh and um yeah working with storytellers on their stories and working with our hosts, Ed and Randall, and just sort of getting the show in shape with the team, just as a worker among workers, as it were. Well, I am one of 16 writers for a show, but I still call it my show. Is it sort of like... I'm giving this to you. It's like that thing when, uh, when you're like, like, like, uh, the, the guy in the band is like, my drummer is a little bit late today. He's got ownership over everything in the band. Yeah.

Like you're the bassist. Is he really your drummer? Right. everything in the band yeah like you're the bassist is he really your drummer right i mean i feel like at this point um for like as a bassist and someone with a chip on my shoulder i feel like if i see a picture of my boss john oliver with like paul rudd somewhere i was like oh paul rudd a friend of ours now uh dan canady some things you should know about dan Daniel O'Brien, the other host of the show. He grew up modeling himself on Rob Gordon, who's the main character from High Fidelity. Oh, wow.

OK. A reason that I was very excited to have you on the podcast is because you are probably the closest he will ever get to meeting Rob Gordon. Well, you know, I do. I found that quote, what came first from from Nick Hornby's novel, High Fidelity. I found that quote, what came first, the sadness or the sad music to be an emotional true north. Like the day I heard that quote, everything changed for me. Man, when was that? I mean, that was ages ago. I want to say it was, I don't know, but when did that book come out? Like in the nineties, right?

It came out in the nineties. Yeah. I took it from a library and it was before the movie. And I have no idea what drew me to a book called High Fidelity because the cover wasn't anything that would like, uh, scream out to someone who was into late 90s WWF wrestling or playing clarinet. Like there was nothing about the cover that would draw me to it. But like I took it and I read it and I was like, this is A, what love is supposed to be like. This is B, how you're supposed to consume pop culture. And this is C, who I'm going to be for the rest of my life for better or worse.

Can I just surprise you? Yes. I heard that from friends in the publishing business that that cover tested really high with clarinet players and wrestling fans. That's their wheelhouse. That's the demographic they're going for. They were. They were like, you know what? This is right down the middle between the two of them.

I think we're going to clean up. Who has disposable income? Got it. People who like Mick Foley and George Gershwin. That's the interception of this Venn diagram. Yeah. Like for the longest time, ad agencies focused on the 18 to 34 demographic.

And then they just went wrestling and clarinets. Let's be honest. Let's drill down. Now, speaking of ad agencies, you've had a number of jobs, Dan Kennedy, that honestly at this point, it sort of feels like your chronology doesn't quite make sense

because you've had so many jobs. One of them was working in ad development for Atlantic, right? Honestly, at this point, it sort of feels like your chronology doesn't quite make sense because you've had so many jobs. One of them was working as at an ad or working in ad development for Atlantic, right? Yes. But you've also been a firefighter. Yeah. So, OK, here's the thing. Like, I am not the oldest guy on the block, but I'm kind of like one of those 90 year old dudes now that you meet and you're like, you were what? Kind of like one of those 90 year old dudes now that you meet and you're like, you were what?

You know, it's like, like, like I met a guy at Home Depot, you know, I was asking for like some help on a lawnmower blade. I was like, is this a replacement blade for this lawnmower? And he was like, yeah. And I noticed you had like a veteran's pin on his hat. And I go, are you a veteran? He goes, yeah. And I go, well, thanks a lot. And he goes, oh, yeah. And I go, what'd you do? You know know I was a little bit Max Fisher of me um I was like uh

uh you know where were you he was like Nam you know Vietnam two tours I was landing uh F-18s on aircraft carriers in the middle of the ocean you know I was just like dude like what like how are you what the how what kind of world? I was like Amy Adams in Enchanted. I was just like, what kind of world is it where I ask a dude in a Home Depot for advice on lawnmower parts? And he's like, what's up, chief? I used to land fighters on fucking aircraft carriers. aircraft carriers. But I'm, I'm, my history is such now at this point, cause I started working. I mean, I'm, I'm really just sort of a blue collar guy that fell in with intellectuals in New York city for 20 something years. And but I, so I started working at, I don't know, nine or 10, you know what I mean? It's like, I just, I always had a hustle. It's like, I was like a nine-year-old little boy. And there was a, um, there was a crisis in the Middle East where, um, an OPEC crisis and the, um, this was like in the olden days and the

gasoline prices were through the roof. And I lived in Southern California as a little boy. And so the lines for the gas station were like literally like a mile long. They would go over the overpass on the 405 and the gas station was on the next corner, you know, like a mile away. And I scoped that stuff out and I was like, you know, all those people are probably dying for a cold drink. Like, so I just went to the stop and go where I usually hung out and just killed time and, um, drank Cokes and stuff. And I just bought a bunch, um, of Cokes as many as I could with whatever little money I had in my pocket. And then I went around behind the store and got a box and put them in it. And I rode my BMX bike up to the line. I just started going down the line, like from the very back, you know, like a mile away. I was like, hey, cold drink.

Everyone was just like, oh, my God, like you, you read my mind. And I also knew I was like, I was a little, you know, nine year old boy who could, you know, just sort of like queued it up and get like 4X on the markup, you know. So I was just like, cool, they're $3.75 for the small ones or whatever. $5 for this one. Doritos are $11.50. It wasn't that bad. So anyway, I just had stacks and stacks and stacks and stacks of ones in my bedroom. And I was like, I am going to fucking buy this mortgage from my parents and kick them out.

Okay. So I was going to ask about, uh, so I have two major questions right now and, uh, forgive me if this is well tried ground for you. Um, the first one is, did your parents know what you were doing when you were nine years old and hustling? I don't think they did. Um, I don't think they knew I was selling drinks and then expanding to sell Doritos and Bubblicious and all this other stuff. And there were duds in the box, like gum was not a big thing in the long lines. But I don't think they did know what I was doing. But like that was the era, you know, like that was the era when parents were just like, you have a BMX bike like Stranger Things.

It was like, go get lost for nine hours. Right. Right. The boy comes home covered in mud. And like, did you have a good day? Yes, I had a good day. All right. Well, then it's at six.

Totally. That's it. We don't care what happened in between. Completely. Unless like something suspicious happened in the neighborhood where it was like, hmm, bottle rockets started a fire in the vacant lot over by Haster Boulevard. Well, sort of my other question, and you can choose to not answer this if you don't want to. Did you in your life, because it sounds like you've had a storied life immediately and

we're only at age nine. Was there a big drug phase or no? Not really. No. I mean, I sort of dabbled. I think, you know, I did mushrooms a couple of times. Shout out to Mushroom, one of our sponsors. Use promo code QQ at mushrooms.com.

Brought to you by psilocybin. You know, that was pretty cool. I mean, I thought they were really revolutionary. And I was living on Bleeker Street at the time in the village. And I was in the habit of a few times eating mushrooms. And then I would sit on the steps on Bleeker and McDougal and just sort of watch people and have what felt like brilliant insights. And, you know, it's kind of hacky, but it's the truth, that old thing where you, you have an insight and then you jot it down in your journal. And the next day you read it and you're like,

and literally the two things I wrote down that I thought were going to change my life forever were sometimes people just enjoy arguing about a restaurant and, uh, and planes are rooms full of people in the sky. And then I, you know, I read those the next day and I was just like, like, it's, it's like so crushingly depressing when you're just like, I seriously thought this was the Rosetta Stone. I thought this was going to be like an album, a novel, and a movie. No, I found that the difference between mushrooms and like drinking or smoking weed is that the epiphanies that I had on mushrooms, I felt like stuck with me after the high was over. Where after I was like, yeah, you know, that makes a lot of sense.

I was in a park and I was sitting down at what I thought were flowers. And at closer inspection, I realized that it was like the sheddings of a pinata. This paper mache-ish, bright colored paper. And I realized it was just trash around me. And put my hands in the dirt and felt the wind kind of blow me. And I felt like the earth was trying to shake me off of it. Like I was a parasite on here. And at the time time i was like that's oh my god i even drew it later while i was telling mushrooms and to this day i still think about i'm like yeah no we don't belong

here we're a parasite i'm that's that's a pretty good one but when you consider the price you pay it's like you could have also got that from a Greenpeace brochure. You know what I mean? It's like, and then when you really look at the sort of casualty rate of, of even just fun drugs, like, have you seen those people? Like, um, like I'm 52 and I've seen those people that are my age and they're still doing mushrooms and, and they really are like kind of dirt wizards. Exactly what you just, like, they really are still sitting on the ground, like feeling the trash going, look at the beautiful flowers. You're like, you're like, wow. Like there's something that happens. I can't put my finger on it, but I can always pick someone out who's like still way into

to that stuff, you know, like, like mushrooms. Yeah. They have a sort of a crunchier nature to them. Yeah. Like a crunchier nature. And they just, you know, they just do random weird things, but there's always, I feel like there's always like a slightly filthy wizard. It's always like, what do I do for a living? Well, I guess if you had to say my job, I use a hose and I wash down the elephants at the zoo. But really, like what I consider my profession to be is a citizen of the universe where we're invaders, by the way. I was at a book party one year and this person, this guy walked up to me and he had to be in his 50s. And I was younger at the time. I was probably in my 30s. And and he walked up to me and I was like, oh, hey, I recognize him as like, how's it going?

And he goes, welcome to my island. A little bit later, we're going to fly around it. And I was like, cool. We're in a shitty apartment. Like, I completely have your number dude so there's no ice cubes here so you don't have ice all right yeah I would like to see you just pointing at people I mean like that guy does mushrooms that guy does mushrooms like oh no that one that one's from Santa Fe I was mistaken the best segment on a show. Dream catcher or mushrooms? Yeah. Yeah.

A little too obsessed with Native American culture or just a mushroom fan. Right. Right. Now, you're also, you talked once because you had him on The Moth, Warren Miller and Warren Miller films. And I grew up with those. Oh, wow. I grew up in Colorado. Oh, wow. I grew up in Colorado.

Oh, wonderful. Skiing and snowboarding was my life then. And so Warren Miller films were like, that's where you saw it. That was like all the good stuff happened in those. And where you ran into the guys, like, I don't know if you've seen any with Glenn Plake in them. Do you remember? He's a Daniel for you. It's he's a skier who in the late 80s and early 90s had a mohawk that was, I want to say, four feet high. All right. And very easy to spot. This is also the era when everybody wore these ski suits. It was just like a one piece thing. I'm sorry. There was an era when everyone did that? Every single person, all the professional skiers. And these these films are incredible. And Warren Miller narrates it. And it's just like got this amazing voice of somebody who is just like knows the world better than you. And Dan Kennedy, you had a breakup when you discovered him, right?

I've never been a skier and, uh, and I was living in the village about as far from, you know, skiing as you can get. I was the complete, um, you know, village cliche, just really skinny, really pale. Um, my hair was dyed black and blue and I wore all black and I was going through a breakup and it was one of those breakups where you kind of realize all the furniture was the girls, you know, like you're sitting in your apartment. You're like, God, this really highlights what a loser I am. Like, I don't even have like a TV stand. And anyway, I had a little wooden table. I got the Chelsea flea market, a little TV on it and a VCR or something. And I went down to Kim's video,

which was like an institution in the village back in ancient New York. And, and I was just looking around. I don't know. It was one of those, it was one of those really smart video places where they, they organize everything by director and everything. And I don't really know directors at the time. I'm just like, how the fuck? I just want new releases and comedies. And then I'm like, Warren Miller. Okay, who's Warren Miller? And I'm like, whoa, what is this? I take like three of these things home.

I'm like, these look hilarious and weird. And, and, um, I think at the time I had just seen heavy metal parking lot and I was like, look, more weird documentaries and like the films of less blank. I was really going down this rabbit hole. So I go watch this Warren Miller dude. And yeah, he had this completely paternal voiceover. I was like watching these films and, uh, and he would just say these things. Uh, I remember this one passage, I think I, I mentioned it on stage where he goes, um, he goes, some of the guys got to the top of the mountain and they realized it was pretty steep. So they took the coward's way down. And then I was like, yeah, you know, like, fuck, you can't be a coward in this life, you know.

And then the very next beat was, and of course, in my head, I'm like, see, that's what I would do because I'm a coward. Like, I'm full Paul Giamatti character post-breakup. And then the very next beat in Warren Miller's VO was like, I got to the top, looked down and decided I would take the coward's way as well. And I was like, Oh, see, it's okay. It's okay. Like sometimes you just, you gotta make the decision that's right for you. And I just started divining all of these life lessons from these ski voiceovers. I'd never been skiing in my life. And then I met a new girl and she came over and there were these brochures on my kitchen table about Austria.

And I don't think I'd ever left the country. And she was like, oh, do you have family in Austria? And I was like, no, no, no, no. I'm going skiing in Austria. And she was like, oh, I, no, no. I'm going skiing in Austria. And she was like, oh, I didn't realize you're a skier. And I was like, I'm not, but that's where I'm learning. And she was like, you're learning in Austria. Like that's kind of swinging for the fences. And I was like, whatever. I was like, you don't have to go, you know, it's probably just going to be a me thing

or whatever. And she, she just smiled warmly, you know, and, and, um, she said, maybe we should just go up to Hunter, you know, or a Wyndham or something and, and learn in New York. And, and I was like, yeah, maybe I'm kind of want to go bigger though. And, um, and, and I said, have you, have you skied before? And she's like, oh yeah, I started skiing when I was little, I grew up in Sweden and I was like, cool. She grew up in Scandinavia, knows how to ski and she just wants to go to the local spot. And I'm like, I've never tried it,

but I'm going to Austria. Don't try to stop me because that's why I don't like relationships. That's incredible. Is this now, is this your... I'm so excited. This is wonderful. I feel like we should get into like the actual structure of the show here dan oh but then oh can i just can i yeah but in for one second to say that um

i got all self-involved for as usual but then we had a show in montana a moth show and warren miller was on the show and um and after all those years of watching those videos and then learning to ski with the new girl that I had met, who I'm still with 21 years later. Um, um, I couldn't believe I was just like, Oh my God, Warren Miller is on this show. Like the Warren Miller. It was like, yeah, we're doing it at the Warren Miller theater. And then we got to go, um, to his house and hang out. And, uh, I actually, I bid it so hard, um, at big sky that day. Um, I crashed like I'm a novice at best intermediate at best. And, um, and I just crashed so hard and knocked the wind out of myself like five minutes before I had to do a local interview.

And this guy's like, tell us a little bit about storytelling. And I'm like, trying to act all casual. I've got a collapsed lung. It's not worth talking about. Can we do like a feature where I just give you one word answers? And, uh, and then, yeah, we got, and I, we were at his house that night and I sat down on the couch next to him and I said, I just, Mr. Miller, I have a question for you. I was coming down this run at big sky today. I was on like a pair of like

vocal mantras. It's probably in over my head. It was kind of powder. And like all of a sudden I cross the tips and, and I tried to go left to uncross them and I couldn't. And I just got air and like flipped over and it was so scary. And what did I do wrong? And he goes, I can tell you exactly what you did wrong. And I was like, oh, awesome. And he goes, you screwed up. And I was like, did I just get warren millard like live yeah that's fuck you're so cool like soren is the is the cool one on this podcast and you're and you're just like knocking him out of the water right now yeah you're saying things like i got air and i what was it i saw twins what was the thing no it's t did crossed up his tips oh well you're probably

envisioning that as all style like super steezy like oh dude you did a jump and you crossed the tips of your skis no it was like i was just trying to like go down an intermediate slope hit one bump and like got like six inches of air everything went sideways and i tumbled like you know it was it was it's not it's not as cinematic as you might've thought. Well, maybe cut that part out. Maybe it's your voice then. Cause it sounds rad as hell when you talk about it. Um, I'm glad that, that, that, so when you did, um, that, that moth at the Worm Miller stage, uh, you did mention that you were still with her and I didn't know if that was still the case. Um, it's good to know because I was going to ask and I was like, well, it's probably not appropriate

if he's not with her anymore. Right. How great of a like episode would that be? Yeah. Oh, are you still with her? Oh, so what else do you guys want to talk about? So I want to do, I would do want to get into the actual heart of the show, which is where we ask each other quick questions. And Dan, I'd like an answer from both you and daniel here okay so dan o'brien dan kennedy this is gonna get tough because it's two days it'll be fine if you just call me daniel as i've asked you to do for 10 years gosh this, this is going to be hard. How about Dino Beans? That's fine. I'll do Dino Beans. I'll take that.

A thing about Dan Kennedy as well is that he knows music better than probably anybody. And I wanted to ask you both, there's a way that songs have, they can knot themselves around these moments in your life where anytime you hear that song after that, you transported right back to that moment. They like, they become seminal because of whatever was going on in your life when you heard them. And this is not something that's just true of good songs. And so I want to know what's a song that you hate because it has some power over your own personal history.

Daniel, are you going to take this one? I have one, yeah, because I... It makes me very upset because I used to think that I was intellectual and thoughtful. There's this song, this Eric Clapton song, or I guess it might be Cream. Oh, no, it might be... I think it's Derek and the Dominoes.

Layla. Dan, you would know. Is that Derek and the Dominoes or Cream? you would uh dan you would know is that derrick and the dominoes or cream it's just eric claptown uh i believe you're right i believe it's derrick and the dominoes i could be wrong but i think you're right but uh it was that was a song that um i thought so much about i think that the story behind it is so interesting. Like, two parts of the story are very interesting to me. One, Eric Clapton wrote this song because he was in love with George Harrison's wife at the time.

Whoa. And no matter how good Eric Clapton was at guitar and as a musician and as a singer and as like a public figure he's not a Beatle so like you can get anyone in the world but not a Beatle's wife and that's why he wrote this song that was like this heartbreaking like this is my friend's wife and I want her and I'm I think I'm supposed to have everything but I can't and I don't know what to I don't know how to put these emotions somewhere and so he wrote the song and the other thing that I that uh I think about with this song is the piano coda at the end that was written by the drummer of the band whose name was Jim Gordon I don't know if

that's possible uh I don't know if that's right rather um but he wrote this piano coda and it's uh a beautiful piece of music this piano coda i love it so much i think about it all the time and uh this guy this drummer a few years after this is tragic a few years after he wrote this Anakota murdered his own mother. What? And then went to jail for it. And is either still in jail or died in jail. It was like, if you want to be romantic about great pieces of art, you would say he was put on this earth to make this one piece of music, and then we don't need him anymore

if you don't want to be romantic about pieces and apparently we don't need his mother either right yes if you don't want to be romantic he's a piece of and this sucks and like the song is not good enough to warrant mother death period um but those are the two like the twin things that i had in my head like this eric clapton narrative and then this drummer piano coda narrative uh and then i watched goodfellas and now i can't think of that fucking song without thinking about goodfellas because scorsese used it in that movie to such great effect it was like the scene that he used to score the defining moment in that movie where tommy devito murders that guy and so it's like oh this used to be a song that like i

had lots of fun facts about and now it's the song that is the goodfellas song but i i i, I don't know if it's the format, but I would argue that maybe Goodfellas is a better thing to think about now. It is, but it feels more universal to associate it with Goodfellas. It used to be a thing that I felt like I could own. And now Goodfellas owns it. Yeah, that's the worst. That's the worst. When you feel like something got sort of taken from your pocket and now the whole world is enjoying it. I hear how it sounds.

I hear it. No, I heard it as soon as it came out of my mouth. I was like, oh, okay. I heard it as soon as it came out of my mouth. I was like, oh, okay. Look, the love of different things is not necessarily a renewable resource. And it feels like as soon as other people have it, it's not yours anymore. Yeah. It's like you could find something.

Imagine stumbling on the Grand Canyon as opposed to somebody telling you about it. It's like it means so much less that other people know it exists than if it was just yours. Right. Like, I want to like stumble into some, some, some saloon somewhere and be like, there's this song that Eric Clapton wrote. And they were like, oh yeah, the Goodfellas song. Nah, nevermind.

Who cares? That guy's mom is dead. Nevermind. Dan, do you have one? I think I might well you know that I just that same thing happened to me with a song I think it's who are you by the who

I had these like little specific memories of that song from growing up. And one night after a show, I was in a bar and somebody came up to me and they were like, hey, what's up? And I was like, oh, hey. And then that song came on and the person goes, why are they playing the CSI Miami song or whatever the hell it was? Or like Law and Order, I don't know, some procedural apparently used it as opening credits. And I was like, this song?

And they were like, oh, wait, this was like a song before it was a thing, right? And I was like, well, you know, yeah, but whatever, you know, like you also don't want to be that person who's like, yeah, man, you can't, because at the same time you're like, Hey, you know what? It's, it's the TV show song too. Yeah. You know, this there's songs that I love that now belong to Ford or GM. Yeah. I mean, it is, or a GM. Yeah. I mean, it is, it is a weird thing, but I, I will, I will, I have a perverse sort of, uh, pleasure from getting used to things not being mine anymore. Like, like as you move through the world, I try to be really kind of graceful. I sound like dream catcher, not mushrooms. But, you know, just that thing where you're like, well, it's not mine anymore. You know, it's like it's for someone else

now. Like, I feel that way, like with New York City is a place you can really feel like that about, right? Like, like it's your city for a certain amount of time. And then you start seeing it be other people's city and you're like, right okay you know you have you have two sort of choices you can make at that time either just dig your heels in and be like god damn i can remember or you can be like well you know cool man now are those could i ask are those things that happen simultaneously was it like in 2004 you were like new york is not for me. And also songs are not for me anymore. Or is it, um, are the, are those independent things that you land on? Independent and very small clicks on a dial.

You know, it's, it's nothing overwhelming or disarming. And there's always five wonderful things to replace it. If you're still moving forward and living, you know, if you're it if you're still moving forward and living you know if you're if you're not moving forward and you're just kind of like calcifying from age you know say 30 north then i think that's when shit goes sideways and you're like hey man you know this was my scene or that was our thing or you know but i think if you're like, hey, man, you know, this was my scene or that was our thing or, you know. But I think if you're still discovering stuff and still alive, you're like, oh, all right, cool. Well, now I'm kind of moving into this thing or doing that, you know. Holy shit, you're so much better at answering questions than either of us are.

Yeah, you come on the show every single day. This sucks. You're so good. This sucks. You're so good. This sucks. You're so good. Soren, do you have one like it matters? Yeah, well, I'm trying to decide if I should even say it. So there's a Coldplay song called Scientist. come up to me chill tell you i'm sorry you don't know and i've never been a huge cold play fan are you guys aware of this song no i only know yellow or whatever the big yeah i think every cold play song sort of blends together for me except viva la vita okay the majority of this one is just like

some clanging on the piano and then like no one said it was easy like that that kind of theme all right and uh this is a cold play is not a band that i've ever i've ever really been into is it lights will guide you no different that's i'll fix you that's that's the uh god how do i know so much Coldplay fat? And you wrote that one for Gwyneth Paltrow and her grant when her father died and he was trying to fix her and he didn't know how. Okay, so I... So anyway, I fucking hate Coldplay, right?

Right on, dude. Back in 2004, I was having a long distance relationship and I wasn't able to see this girl for six months and I was working in long distance relationship and I wasn't able to see this girl for six months. And I was working in retail over the summer. And at the end of the day, I would have to go through and like fold all the clothes and get everything ready for the next day. But no one was in the store. I had like an hour to close up.

Hold on. I need to pause because as soon as you said I was working in retail, Dan knowingly gasped like, ah, like he knew where this was going. Dan, speak on that. You know where I thought it was going? I thought you were going to be like, so I was going through, you know, this long distance relationship situation and I was working in retail and our music loop, you know, would play that six times a day. Yes. So you're not wrong. Yes. Right on.

you know would play that six times a day yes so you're not wrong yes right on so there's there's a limited number of songs that you can listen to because there's the one track that you get that's like it's maybe like 30 songs all in a row and you just listen to that every single day and it's like these pre-picked songs that aren't going to be aren't going to dissuade anyone from shopping in your store and one of them is this song and this is the only kind of melancholy song that there is and it was the only one that was even close to capturing this like yearning I was feeling at the time. And so I knew that on the tracks list, I could go skip to that song if I needed to. And I would, at the end of the night, I would turn that one to that song way up. And there's a, in the women's section, there was a mannequin that was just like a torso

that I'd have to dress every night because you've got to change the outfits out. And it was like, I'd walk up to this thing and like very gentlemanly remove the sports bra and put on a new one. And right, I i mean you introduce yourself hello i'm soren it's very nice to meet you beautiful night isn't it the moon is out um and uh every single time like i would it's almost like i'd blush just like

grazing the rubber skin of this dummy because i hadn't been with my girlfriend in six months. And here was this body that was very similar in shape to hers and everything. And I just would think about her and listen to the song that was like the closest I could get at work to feeling. And that song, every time it comes on now, I go right back to there. And like that feeling of wanting somebody so badly. And that all, I will say dan kennedy this also ended up being my wife eventually and the mannequin the mannequin this mannequin he was really polite too very untraditional but we don't frown upon it yeah no and uh it was a a time in my life when like i was falling in love with my wife. And so it's very important. It's important to me.

But it's also this song. I just don't like objectively and know is a bad song. Does she know? So she famously does not listen to this podcast. Does she know this fact about you? When this song comes on, does she give you a look? Oh, she doesn't know? Well, I think I've told her about the mannequin stuff.

And I think that it weirded her out a little. And so we don't really talk about it. I just, I don't know. I think that's such a beautifully suburban scene. Like there's something that the suburbs, and I don't even know that you were in the suburbs. You could have been in downtown of the city or something, but I just feel like it captures this, this safe on we that I always loved. Like David Lynch speaks of arriving,

first arriving in Los Angeles and going to the Bob's big boy and ordering a milkshake. And he had the safety of Bob's Big Boy and the milkshake to come back to so he could explore his darkest, weirdest ideas in his notebook. And I just always felt that way about the type of music you're talking about, you know, whether it's Coldplay or like any of these like safe kind of middle of the road, very emotive songs always felt like a safe way to feel kind of melancholy to me. Yeah.

That's how they become pop music. I think, right. It's like, yeah, I mean, it must be right. There's so many,

you can, you can attach anything that's going on in your life to these things. And now, and because that you can do that, everybody does it. And it's like, yes, this song means something to me. Yeah. I don't.

Yeah. I think, I think you're completely right. And I find that with rock songs, like I have one song, any, any song that's rock or that's pop will not itself around me. Like you're talking about to a specific time of my life and kind of haunt me. It'll always be tied to it, but I don't find that with classical or with like jet, like any other kind of music does not really,

I don't know if it's like the four, four time signature or if it's that pop music is so popular that you hear it in so many places like retail places. And so therefore it's more branded on to you or what. But I don't find that with other kinds of music. There's a Foo Fighters song like that is so middle of the road, like just a dad rock sort of song perfectly solid love of those guys great guys all that stuff but um but it it's so i heard it um i was i was on the road for like 10 cities. And when we got to Minneapolis, Foo Fighters were playing the night after we were there, um, on this shoot that for this TV show. And, um, and my buddy was like, dude, I'm, I got his tickets. We're all going. And I was like, no way. So we went and,

um, and they played this song that I had only heard that night. And it was about like run for your life. You know, it was off like the new album. It was like, wake up, run for your life with me. And that was 2018 in October. And my parents' house had burned down. Whoa. Holy shit. Yeah. Like two weeks prior or something like that in the wildfires. Wait, okay, go on. I put a pin in that, but go on. And so it was like this thing. I'm not the most emotional guy. Like I save it. I use it in a novel or in a script, um, or in a joke or whatever, but I'm a pretty sensible, just normal suburban dude. You wouldn't know it from the shit that I

write, but, um, but I am. And, um, but that was just one of those moments where I'm like, we're standing there watching the band and it's like, holy shit. He's describing every, like the whole video for this song right now in my head is like my parents phone ringing two weeks ago, my mom waking my dad up and them getting out of paradise, California, um, by the skin of their teeth, you know, in the nick of time, like, and it was just like, fuck, okay. Focus on anything. Focus on Taylor. Wow. Is he playing like 16th on the high hat? Like, how's he doing that? Oh, is he using two sticks? No, it's one stick. Wow. He's got a lot. And like, it's just like overtaking me like a wave, but, um,

overtaking me like a wave but um but yeah i just you know that's i just gotta i just i'm just like fucking whatever you got pizza up there that's phenomenal that's insane and i still can't listen to i can listen to to that whole um that whole album and remember that shoot those, those like five weeks we were out doing stuff and, um, and it's fun. And I remember the whole show and get to that song and it was like, skip it, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip. And if I'm in a, if I'm in a store, like if I'm in a store and that comes on or, um, somewhere that's playing like, you know, I'm just like, all right, I gotta, somewhere that's playing like, you know, I'm just like, all right, I gotta, I can't, you know, it's like, you would think it would be like, I don't know any number of, I mean, God knows there are bands that have, that have, you know, I've got some depressing music in my memory from like my twenties bands that were on 4AD from, from England and, you know, bands that really, that made Nick Hornby's line a godsend of what came first,

the sadness or the sad music. You know, so you would think it'd be any number of those, but those I just hear them now, like now that I'm a little bit older, it's like I listened to like the saddest throwing muses song or American music club song. And I'm just like, sweet. That's sweet. You know, I'm just like this dad who thinks it's funny that, you know, yeah, that you exist outside of that sort of history. Yeah. Yeah. Like you have the luxury now of going, Oh, well, you know, the world didn't devour me so right you know this seems kind of silly and like a kind of caricature of sadness now now your parents house burning down

in a forest fire is that partially what led you to being a force fighting i mean a forest fire fighter force fire no so i fought fires i don't think I want to like to answer Soren's question. I don't think you can choose like as a fireman. I'm only going to fight forest fires. I think it's like an all or nothing scenario. Not true. No, no, no. Not true at all. Really?

Not true. No, just the opposite. Yeah. Like you. So I, I fought forest fires when I was what, 24 years old or something. And mostly because I was, you, 24 years old or something. And mostly because I was, you know, I was in this college town not going to college and didn't have a lot of options. I was like, I mean, what we know from the last three years now, it's like, well, you had a big privilege, didn't you, dude? But and I get that, you know, but at the time I was just a towel boy at a health, you know, like a gym.

And I just would fold towels and hand them to you when you came in to work out. And I take your card and be like, OK, make sure everything checked out like some fucking, you know, detective. And and do a double take gym detective cue the who cue they might be giants and and so then uh uh i was like how am i gonna make some fucking money i work at a record store and a bookstore. And, um, then I got the third job at the gym. Oh, that's cause I got canned at the bookstore. I used to drink a little bit. I don't do that anymore. Um, but anyways, so there was a girl there and she said the most kick-ass thing I've ever heard anybody say to me when I asked like what they do besides their job,

you know how you ask each other that when you're on a job? Cause obviously if you're working in a bookstore, do you want to be a writer or whatever? And I was like, so what's your thing, you know, outside of working at the gym or whatever. She's like, Oh, I'm a, I'm a smoke jumper. And I was like, Oh, what is a smoke jumper? She's like, I jump out of airplanes with the parachute holding an ax into forest fires. And I battled them. And I was was just like you are a fucking rock god like who are you like who does

that and um my thing is i drink too much to work at this bookstore seriously it was like oh my thing is i watch depressing bands at a burrito place and get loaded. And so and she was like, you should try it. And I just I did that thing where you hear yourself going, I totally should. Like, you know, just because you're trying to be cool and impress somebody. And then, yeah, and then, you know, a whole bunch of physical tests and endurance stuff and fire science stuff. Later, you know, then it's like three in the morning and you're walking into a forest on fire and you're like, holy shit, this went way too far. I was just trying to impress Allison. I don't even know her anymore.

This sucks. It was. And I had this like really weird, narrow idea, like I'm going to see her on every fire. You know, we'll probably fall in love, you know. She's like, dude, you're on a fucking hand crew. I am flying out of the sky. Okay. You're rolling up hoses four days after I've been there, dude.

So like, do we get walkie talkies? How's it going to work between us? Exactly. It seems like communication is going to be a challenge. Oh, who's John? Who's John? You keep mentioning John. Who's John? Oh, he's a smokejumper too. Interesting. I think all the action's on the ground. So I did that in my twenties and my, my, you know, these fires didn't,

didn't burn our house down and the town down until two years ago. Okay. Yeah. So that was, that was that, you know, Dan, you have lived a extraordinary life. Yeah. Well, you know, that was, that was my folks and my sister. I was, I was a guy 3000 miles away, sort of going, Oh my God, what songs do I need to listen to to not lose my mind? Well, we've loved, actually loved having you on this podcast. We're at the point now where I sort of do like a plug for all of us and you can plug anything that you want. But I got to go find the stuff for Dan and me. While I do that, I just want to give you a chance, Dan Kennedy.

It's fall right now. do that i just want to give you a chance dan kennedy it's fall right now and i want to know what are the terrestrial or aquatic insects that like trout would be like nibbling for like what a trout want right now that's a very good question you should answer right now it's still kind of about terrestrials in most of the country like it's still warm enough that you see a lot of grasshoppers and a lot of ants and a lot of beetles so it's still terrestrials although isonychia are starting to hatch in the eastern united states and so uh on the rivers you know this side of colorado where you grew up um definitely isonychia right now and then as October comes, start throwing the big junk like streamers because the Browns are going to be spawning. He knows everything, Dan.

All right, I'd like to give you a chance first, Dan Kennedy, to plug the things that you're working on or that you would want people to find you. I don't know. You know, come around Twitter right now. I'm not really plugging anything. I'm loving this stint, um, working with the folks at True Story. And then like every other TV writer and producer, I'll be looking for another gig. Um, I'm working on a book called Hail Satin, which is a heavy metal soap opera set in the eighties. And, um, you know, not that anyone asked me to just figure like, it's probably something fun to type. Had I known I could ask that I wouldn't have asked you to do it. And is there anything, um, so is there, um, like anything resembling an audio book in your

future? Anything like, I'm not, I have to be transparent about this. I can't be cool. You have an incredible voice. It's wildly sexy. Is there anywhere that our fans can go to just like listen to you talk about things for a while? Oh, you know what? There's a new thing I just started recording here at my studio at McSweeney's. And it's called Dan Kennedy Sol your problems with storytelling where I fix your entire life or just problems you have with stories that sounds incredible and a better version of this show I encourage everyone to subscribe and

donate to it if that's a thing that they're allowed to do you can I want to say by the way it's like massive props for for the shout out to the Scholastic Book Fair a couple of episodes ago. Oh, yes. That was like, oh, I have to say yes to this. It's like that was just, that was awesome. Maria designs books for Scholastic. Oh, no way.

That's like, yeah, like I sit here recording stuff. She sits there designing stuff. That's great. Well, if you want to follow Dan Kennedy on Twitter, you can follow him at DanKennedy underscore NYC. You can follow Dan at DOB underscore Inc. That's Daniel O'Brien. But he has to approve you,

and that's likely not going to happen for whatever reason. Just follow Dan Kennedy. Just follow him. He's better. You can follow me, Soren, at Soren underscore LTD. You can follow our show, Q, at Soren underscore LTD. You can follow our show, QQ underscore Soren and Dan. And if you want to email us, go to QQ with Soren and Daniel at gmail.com.

Also, I should mention Gabe Harder, of course. You can follow or find or hire our producer and sound engineer, Gabe Harder, at his website, GabeHarder.com, which will be up and running, honestly, I think by like 2026. I think it's going to be up. Fingers crossed. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Dan Kennedy, for being on the show. It was a pleasure to have you and you have some wonderful stories and it was such a treat.

This was amazing. Oh, thanks guys. This was super fun. Favorite episode of the show, easily. Okay, bye. was super fun favorite episode of the show easily okay bye