Quick Question with Soren and Daniel - Sweaty Guy In The Basement | Ep. 328

Episode Date: April 21, 2026

Daniel starts out impossibly sweaty, which leads to a story about meeting his girlfriend’s entire family for the first time, hiding in the basement, and realizing he may be remembered forever as “that crazy sweaty guy.” From there, he and Soren debate the greatest cast shows ever, argue for Mad Men, The Wire, and Frasier, and swap audition horror stories, tech avails, and the perfect origin of Cliff Clavin’s know-it-all energy.Follow the guys on Bluesky!https://bsky.app/profile/danielobrien.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/sorenbowie.bsky.socialBonus episodes 2x/month at patreon.com/quickquestion OR Apple Podcasts

question for you all right I want to hear your thoughts I don't know what's on your mind Hello again and welcome to another episode. Why would we even start? Why would we even start? Do you want to take a knee? And I mean, yeah, can you just, can you talk for like kind of a while?

Listeners, I'm so sweaty. It's 150 fucking degrees out right now. I went for a run. I went for a shower. Didn't work. I had it planned out that I would shower, that I would run at a certain time and give me ample time to cool down. And when you have a baby, you cannot have plans anymore. You're just not allowed to do it.

That's it. That's all there is. And so I was delayed by a few minutes and that few minutes, I think, has ruined the rest of my day. I love that you have a – you're going to towel off consistently throughout this episode. I'm sorry. First of all, I'm sorry, it's so hot there. I hate running in the heat. I think it might be the worst thing in the world. Here's what's good about it. Limit the amount of clothing that I will put on when I run. Just some tiny shorts, and that's it. I love it. I'm very high. happy guy. Can I make one more suggestion to you? Don't do it in a black tuxedo shirt.

This is the clean thing that I changed into. Oh, it is. Okay. I know that that's a running shirt for you. This used to be dry. I added when I was deciding what to put on a clean but but newly sweaty body, I was like, well, what shirt can I ruin and then not need for a while? Because we just did laundry. So what's, what's something that I'm not going to miss? Yeah, it did. It There's like that period that you need after a run before you get into a shower. No matter how cold the shower is, it doesn't really matter. You get out and you get these taill-tale signs that the shower didn't take. Like you still have beads of sweat on your forehead. Or like you towel off and then you put the towel back.

And then you start noticing like drips of water on your back. And you're like, oh, fuck. Yeah. This was too early. I jumped the gun. when I was putting on the swim trunks that I'm wearing right now to record this podcast and I felt my legs were still sweaty.

I was like, but I got those already. I got them with a towel. Now what? You're just sitting in it. I know that feeling. It's a bad feeling and you're sitting in it. There was a day at Cracked where you and I would run to the beach sometimes after work. And I'd run to the beach and there's something that happened to my car

and I'd ask a coworker who lived near me if I could get a ride with her and did that earlier in the day and then you and I went for a run and completely forgot that when I'm done with a run I'm not to be around. Yeah. I just sat in her car

for like an hour, the sweatiest I've ever been. And the entire time being like, again, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. She's like, it's fine. It's fine. I'm sure this has come up on the podcast before.

I can't. I actually remember, but when I flew to Illinois to meet my wife's entire family for the first time, girlfriend at the time, this is a summer when I'd broken my foot, so I wasn't running a lot, and I was just starting to get better. And so I flew to Illinois, and it wasn't just like her parents and her siblings. There was like a big Fourth of July, all of the clan comes out. and we all meet and have a wonderful barbecue. So I was a little bit nervous, a little bit nervous to meet all these people and make a good first impression on my girlfriend's extended family.

And running helps me get the nerves out. And also I was just so excited to run after a month and a half or so of not running while I was healing. I was like, let me just get a run in. I thought a pretty long time before anyone's going to get there. and I had not budgeted the right amount of time. I went for my run in Illinois in July, which is not a pleasant heat. And I got back and I shook with sweat in the garage for a while. And then I went in the basement where it was cold.

And I showered and stayed in the basement for a while and like really sat in the shower. And it was just not, a guests are arriving now. Guests are arriving. And it's not just like. Daniel's not ready yet He'll make his entrance from the top of the stairs When he's ready Everyone knows that I'm the new thing

At this barbecue No one's getting there like Let's check out the grill You know they've seen the grill They want to see the new thing And they also know that I'm Staying at the house So it's not like

I'm running late I am just sitting in the basement Knowing that they're all like Where is he taking a huge shit and I'm just thinking in the basement, no, it's worse. It would be great. I pray that they believe I'm taking a huge shit down here. I actually came up to meet a few of them, and the sweat was not going away.

And Shea was like, do you want to just go back down to the basement for a while? And I was like, yes, please. I just sat in a dark basement. She wasn't even like, you're fine. You're fine. No, no. She was like, you're in fact, you're underreacting. You shouldn't have changed already.

You should. You need to just go put your head in a freezer. Just got to go and be different. It's scary times. It's scary to think like if I'm in the basement and I'm thinking like, I guess we can break up. I guess that'll be okay. And then she'll meet someone else and her family will tell stories. And it'll always be like, remember that crazy fucking sweaty guy.

I'll just be sweaty guy. That's easier than. fixing this is to just be a footnote instead of a book. If nothing else, I brought their family closer together. Yeah. Yeah, that's really rough. It's rough to be very sweaty and have a ticking clock on having to get not sweaty because it's not how your body likes to work.

Your body is like, oh, there's a clock on this? Guess what? Yeah. More sweaty now. Now that I'm freaked out, you're getting more sweaty. That's just how I react. It's not helpful to you in any capacity. But when you're nervous, oh, boy, I'm giving you more of this.

And as I'm trying to tell my body before this podcast, hey, it'd be great if you weren't sweaty. My body's like, okay, I'll try. And then I put on five pound headphones that completely cover my ears. My body's like, well, what the fuck am I? You're stacking the deck against me. There's no. That was how we were going to do it. We had a whole plan to cool you through your ears.

Well, I'm sorry that that happened. Had we still just a normal podcast, it wouldn't have mattered one fucking bit. It would have been fine. But again, we're haunted by the necessity of video. Our whole careers. We have all pivoted to video because we are told something. There's supposed to be more money in it that has not materialized yet. We will see.

Oh, good news, Daniel. Speaking of work, my episode aired. Oh, shit. Sorry. You give you a heads up next time. Yeah, well, I would like to get a heads up. Did you not? That's right.

I forgot. I think the way that I'm going to find out from now on is American Dad does have a Facebook page. And if I'm following that, occasionally on the day, I will see that my episode is going to air. I would have figured you'd find out from someone taking a screenshot of your name of the credits and tagging you on blue sky. And that doesn't happen anymore. Those days are over. It's a shame.

It's old hat. Yeah. I just don't have the following anymore. But it was, it aired. It was, I think it was good to see. I don't know. I didn't watch it. Okay.

Sadly. I'll watch it. I think people did. There we go. I look forward to it. I've got, I need things to watch. Okay. Here on, on paternity leave when my wife and baby are asleep and we can't

watch the show is that my wife and I both like, so I just have to find other things that only I like. And they simply can't make episodes of The Boys fast enough. I'm through it already. Did you watch? Did you watch Strip Law? Of course I watched Strip Law. I love Strip Law. Did I recommend it on this show?

I don't think we have talked about it on the show. It's so good. Written by Colin Crawford, one of the only, one of like the purest died in the old joke freaks you will ever meet in your entire life. And he stacked his writer's room with joke monsters, and it's just such a funny show. It's just wall-to-wall, jokes, jokes, jokes, jokes, relentless, I would say.

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by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Company Limited. The ASPCA is not an insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance. Speaking of show, some things to watch, so on, I got a quick, quick question for you. Perfect. That's because that's what the show is. That's what the show is. What is, I was going to say in your opinion, but let's get, let's, let's be objective and do this correctly. What is factually, in arguably, the greatest cast show in history? And I, I feel like we will emerge at criteria for, for what counts as great casting as we do this, because like, it's so easy to point to almost any show and say that one, because like,

I don't know, Seinfeld was really well cast and Friends was really well cast. It's hard to imagine anyone doing those shows. that was successful. Right. You're going to say like, well, of course it was perfect. But as I'm narrowing my criteria for it,

I'm really settling on Mad Men, just because that's a show that we are rewatching right now during our shared leave. And it's a great, it's like an insanely well written show. And it's expensive back when we used to be able to spend money on TV shows. And it's just paced so well. And they had so much freedom to make the show they want.

There's a lot of things that are great about Mad Men. It is a top-tier show. I'm so hung up on how good that casting is and not just like Seinfeld was good casting or something like that. I didn't know anyone from that show before it was on.

I don't know anyone who did. I know that Elizabeth Moss had a recurring role on West Wing as the president's daughter. But she wasn't, that wasn't a very showy part and she wasn't like a series or even season regular. You would see her like three or four times a year. I don't know. Joel Murray was that was madman riding on just the the white hot celebrity name cachet of one of Bill Murray's brother. Who knows? Did we not even know who John Hamm was? John Hamm was not know who John Hamm was. John Ham was a nobody at that point in the

show. He had probably done some soap opera, something somewhere. But I've, But you can find interviews with him famously. He had to audition and re-audition for this role a thousand times because they were like, we're not really sure about this, about this John Ham fella if he's the one to carry this show. And like not only is he perfect for it. I might argue that he's perfect for that and nothing else. I don't, I'm not sure how what I think of him as an actor. I think he's got a lot of charisma.

and I like him and he's like fun on 30 Rock playing a dumb guy he's imposing in Fargo but in general nothing has reached the heights of Mad Men and I don't think that's just because the writing was better on Mad Men than it is on your friends and neighbors I think this is like

this is the thing that John Hamm was put on this earth to do was played Don Draper at this time in his life I feel the exact same way about January Jones I feel like January Jones probably shouldn't have had a career, but she's so good in Mad Men. She's perfect as Betty in Mad Men. And like you look at everybody in that show,

John Slattery, and there's probably people on this show that like, that have been, that are like Broadway guys. I know Robert Morris, Bert Cooper, he was a Broadway guy, original cast of How to Succeed in Business. Slattery might have been a Broadway guy too.

I don't know, but so many of these people... In the 90s, he was a guy. He was like a character actor in the 90s. Yeah. Do you remember seeing him in anything? Yeah, he's an eraser. Oh, wow. Yeah, he's an eraser with Arnold Schwarzenegger.

That's cool. I'll take that. But generally, no one was like, we're going to bring in this name who's going to carry this show. It was a bunch of people I'd never seen before. Absolutely perfectly... Ken Cosgrove is perfectly cast.

And I never see him in any of the show. else. I was looking him up because I was like, that he just, anytime there's an actor that I really like from a show in the past and I haven't seen them in anything since, there's like a 95% chance that they've been doing law and order or landman for 25 fucking years and I've just missed it. But no, Ken Cowsgrove did Mad Men and then the voice and body capture for the LA noir video game and then just pops up here and there. Vincent Carthizer, who is, as I'm rewatching it, like, oh, he's Pete. A revelation as Pete Campbell. Just someone who is just so perfect in his little hateable role. Everything he does is Weasley. And then when he's good, it's like, oh, he's good. And then he does

something shitty again. It's like, oh, that's right. Of course he's shitty. He's perfect for this. I think he fucking disappeared after this show ended. I don't get. I don't get that. think of a single other thing he's done. Also, he just belongs to that period. That's the other thing with a lot of these guys is that if you tried to get them out of the 1950s or the early 1960s, I think you'd be like, no, no. Yeah, put them back. Put them back where they go. Yeah, Aaron Stett and that Ken Cosgrove was like somebody, when watching the show, I was always like, let's, can we just get a little bit more of him? Like, I want to know more because he's just this golden child, right? And he's writing short stories that Pete

insanely jealous of. And everything he's doing, he's good at. There's some, uh, there's a lot of this show, like the first three seasons, especially, that is completely seared into my brain from the first time I watched it. Like, I'm, I'm shocked at how much dialogue I remember. But now that we're, we're into season five, it's less in my brain.

And so I'm, I'm rediscovering things in a way that feels like I'm finding it for the first time. So I don't know how Ken Cosgrove's arc wraps up. up. But you're right. In the meantime, up until this point, not only is he, like, he's, you know, like a pervy product of his time in the beginning, like all the men on that show and in the 60s were, he cleans up pretty quickly. He starts talking to Peggy like a peer pretty early on. And anytime Pete is having like a one-sided war with him about how they're both account managers and who's going to come out on top, Kenny is just like, it's a job, man. I mean, I'm doing it as well as I can, but it's not my life.

My wife is my life. Isn't it great that we both have jobs right now? One day our jobs will end and then one day we'll die. Just like, I know it sucks that I'm handsome and happy and kind, but I just am. And I'm sorry. I don't. These characters exist throughout fiction, I feel like. They're like these guys who are just like the main character, just as good as the main character, but they don't have the existential crisis that goes along with it.

They're just like, they have a much better understanding of the world. And they're like, and I understand my place within it. and I'm fine with that. Yeah. And so, like, I guess there's not a ton to do with. That's Legulus. Like, that's Legalus and Lord of the Rings. That's, like, I'm not even going to do it.

Not even going to go into epic Greek stuff. But there's, like, you've got these people who are just, like, perfectly suited for that world. And I guarantee you want to see more of them because you're like, well, how come they get it? Like, let's just get the main character in him to talk. Like, let's get him figured out. And just walking proof that you don't need to. to be tortured and miserable to be successful, which nobody wants to see.

I think I've tried to model my whole life on those characters. I think all of our comedy writer friends who know you personally are like, Swarm, what do you think? This Ken Cosgrove motherfucker. Oh, you're attracted to the, you like the blonde one who seems like he's pretty content and emotionally regulated? Oh, I wonder why. Yeah, it is a really well cast show I forgot even some of the people that were on it

That like Jared Harris I'd never seen before Yeah I've seen a bunch in other things I'm sure I've seen I think he did that That Paul McCarty John Lennon straight to VH1 movie I think he did before Mad Men But that's not like

And then this was after Community had already started right So Allison Bree She was doing both at the same time Yeah Okay. But yeah, I mean, like, I'm just looking through the cast and I'm like, oh my God. Yeah, everybody was perfect for their roles. It was a really well cast show. And they bring in like guys to do one episode or a couple episode arcs like the and like Carla, Buono, I think her name is, who did Dr. Fay for a season and like all these women who come in for very important short arcs and the guy who comes in to be like the, I guess the Sinatra, Dean Martin analog who was like, a funny celebrity type that does a commercial for us for them he is perfect and i've seen him in a bunch

of things but he also seems like he is he is from that time and isn't allowed he i'll see him in like a a bulletproof vest doing l-a cop stuff and i'm like get what is this time traveler doing in southland get the fuck out of here is he in south i didn't realize he was in there um i don't know i I have one. But I think what I'm circling for this is I haven't seen most of the actors before. They are perfect. And they haven't really done something better or something in some cases at all since that. That is the criteria that I found for this casting.

Okay. This one doesn't fully fit that bill then. That's fine. But they did start here. And I think maybe this is where everyone realized they were good. almost feels like a cop-out because it's such a good show. But The Wire. The Wire is amazingly.

I brought this question to my friend in casting, and she said The Wire. That was her answer, too, because I wanted to see if there was, like, a gold standard in casting rooms, because she's been doing this for, you know, 17 or 20 years at this point. And I feel like writers can say, like, Simpsons are Arrest Development, comedies that are, like, cheers. on a writing level formative comedies. And I wanted to know if casting professionals had like, this is the standard. There isn't a standard.

There isn't like the best agreed upon industry answer. But a lot of people said the wire. It's so good. And then I think I'm like looking back on it, I think the only person I knew in the wire was Avon Barksdale. Like that guy had been in Remember the Titans and maybe something else. But I, he was the only familiar face to me in that show. And everybody was phenomenal to the point where I was like, by the time I did start looking up the actors, I was like, all these motherfuckers are English.

Yeah. It's when, for some reason, when there's an older actor, and this is big in Mad Men and the Wire, when there's an older actor who is so good, it's shocking to me that we've never seen them before and we didn't watch them grow up. I understand that some people come to it late and some people come to success late. but like Lester Freeman was perfect. He was perfectly emerged as like this seasoned older guy and like how did you, how when did you get so good? How did you, when did you become such a good actor when I wasn't looking? Like how did you do it without being on my TV all this time?

And it's like from tip to tail. Like the mayor, Mayor, Mayor Davis, is that his name? the guy who's easily bought all the time Oh yeah Clay Davis Clay Davis yeah Shit Like that

That guy is like It's like a You're watching a A Like a Oh Blanked on a name Who wrote Fargo?

Who did Fargo? The Coen Brothers It's like you're watching a Coen Brothers Movie Like everybody is a character in it And everybody is Like slots in you're like, oh, you're in my memory now.

Like, you will live in this role forever, even though you were in three episodes. There are so many people on that, like, Stringer Bell and Avon Barksdale and McNulty, all these people who were like, Wallace, like, there's people, yeah. You're such a good actor. You're such an unbelievable good actor,

and you're perfect for this role. And there are other people, like, random old chubby shit cops that fall down the stairs or only show up for like the wake or to deliver a little bit of exposition. And I don't think they're great actors, but they're fucking perfect. They're like exactly these weird hump cops in Baltimore who are over their heads and they hate everyone. And it was like, you walked, you accidentally walked on set from an actual police station and they just started filming you.

That's how perfect the casting in this show is. It's a wonderful show. I would say the wire felt like a cheat to me because, yeah, the success of that show was how perfect and authentic it all felt. Yeah. I would think there's another one that I think of that I think would have collapsed if the acting or the characters hadn't been perfectly cast. And that is Frazier. I feel like Frazier could have been a bad show.

But you get like the exact right Niles. You get the exact right dad in that. even Daphne like everybody is just perfect for their slot in that show it's insane how um how they found Perry Gilpin

I don't know how that like I'm not saying that because I know the story of how they found Perry Gilpin who played Roz but like how does how does she sound like Roz from the beginning it's it's one of those things where where this

that character type didn't exist before and doesn't really exist now. It still seems like such a strange outlier, this sort of tough as nails, horny radio producers slash friend and confidant, the only one who somehow gets along with this weird, foppish Kelsey Grammer character.

And from like minute one, she is, like, you can hear it in her voice like, oh yeah, that's right. Like how does she have the voice or how did they? All of her baggage is in her voice. Like, it's like, she carries it all there And you're like, oh, this woman has seen some things She is going to win a football player She's going to win a Seattle Seahawks in a bachelor auction

And fucking devastate him sexually But I mean, you know there are people that are in the office Like, like that are doing other shows like Mad Dog You're going to say Bob Bulldog Brisco? I'm sorry, Bulldog. Yeah, like the Bulldog is He's a guy who loves sports is like very aggressive

but when you to see him his stature he's a very tiny little guy he's perfect for radio yeah he's he's absolutely 100% uh a shit talking radio guy he's a tiny little bald man yeah armchair quarterback and just a complete shit head to everybody around him

it's wonderful they had like this foppish friend of fraser's uh gill you know him if you see him I think I think he's passed on But he is like a real life literary agent that I feel like someone just saw him. Yeah. It was like, hello.

They're like, don't say another word. You're Gil St. Clair or whatever. And you have a feud with Frazier. We need to start filming right away. But where it really stood out to me. And I guess this is just like true of in television in general. If I start to look up who characters are, like I'm like, this is so good. Who is this person?

Then I will, I know that it's been great casting. And I don't think she came in for a while. but B.B. Glazer, who's Frazier's agent. Oh, yeah. What her name is. Her name is Harriet Sanson Harris. And she is so good. She's, anyone who's ever had to deal with agents.

Like, you see this and you're like, oh, fuck. They got it. They did it just right. I thought you were going to say cheers, but Frazier is pretty cheers adjacent. Yeah, I'm trying to think about cheers. I know the story of how Cliff Claving got in the show, but I don't know, I don't really know about the casting of everybody.

I don't know that story, so I'm excited to hear it. I reread that pilot once in a while because it is, it's maybe the tightest pilot you will ever read for a comedy. And especially the one that I have is not the one that was shot. Like it's so, the thing that you can read is so incredibly tight. And yet they make it tighter by lifting out this, this, I think wheelchair-bound bar patron who they eventually just decided like,

no, we don't, we don't need another regular to occupy this, this, this, this joke whole. But even with what they determined was fat, I was still like, this is, well, you have to lift that person out. That person can't walk on their own out. Sure. Got a look. Okay. You read that pilot and you're like, how could this show not be good? Because it seems so clear on the page versus something like, it makes Sopranos more of a feat of casting. Because I think if you look at that on the page, it doesn't leap out as strongly as Cheers does because so much of Sopranos or Mad Men seems to be,

the page would just say like, Tony Soprano looks at Christopher and then he stands up and walks away or like there are scenes in Mad Men that is just Don walks into a room picks up a glass, puts a glass down, looks out the window, lights a cigarette and

you could really bungle that with bad casting. Yeah. I think that's absolutely right. I disagree with you on the Sopranos though. I don't think that Sopranos belongs on this list. Uh, okay.

I think that the Sopranos casting, with a few exceptions. Like, obviously, Tony's great. The therapist is, is wonderful. His wife is perfect. The other Gumbas, like the other guys that are... Don't you dare. They're cartoon characters. They're fucking cartoon characters.

It's a comedy. They don't belong in that world. they are so almost like borderline offensive yeah if like if I was a mafia member and I saw that I'd be like what the fuck there I do I have a couple of thoughts a it's a comedy B I do think it's um it's true to that world because

sopranos you know is is about a million things because because David Chase is is a genius and it's about his mother and it's about it's about writing and it's about producing and it's about all of all the things but it's on a much more literal level what would what would the the mafia look like if they had been raised watching a bunch of movies about the mafia like when we when you watch the godfather it's like this is the mafia these are gangsters who came over from italy to do crime in america and you feel that way about like any of the other crime movies that you watch exist outside of pop

culture departed in Goodfellas. It's just like, these are what these are a natural evolution of criminals. Everyone in Sopranos has the shared pop culture that we have. They have Godfather. They have Goodfellows. They have Casino. These are guys who who didn't come from Italian crime. They came from watching Goodfellas. And they were like, that's, that's cool. I want to be like Joe Pesci. And like, and I take myself very seriously. That's why, that's how you get Pauly Walnuts. That's how he exists in this show. is that he watched Godfather and was like, me, I want to play. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But man, is that a long walk for a show? It requires the audience to watch Supranos a few times and then land on that idea. Yeah. I mean, I love that theory. It certainly makes it more palatable. But every single time I would watch that show, I'd be like, these interactions between poly walnuts and big pussy, I'd be like, what are we doing?

Especially because, like, as the show. as that show goes on, there are just indistinguishable fat mafia guys hanging out in Bada Bing and at the weddings and the parties. And some of them die

and some of them are rats. And it's almost never is someone like, hey, I'd like to introduce my cousin, Vito, who moved here and he's with us now. It's always just like, Vito, kill us.

over here and you was an audience like okay I guess Vito was always there or they moved and we didn't know about it you saying that is reminding me that they also do get a cousin from Italy or like a guy from Italy who then starts to horn in on Fiorino Tony's wife yeah

he also is like a huge stereotype a huge Italian stereotype like long ponytail and Fotherio and espresso stepped right out of a romance novel that's no good It's silly to me. It does.

It really seems like they had a casting call in season one for Sal, big pussy bumpinzano. They were like, cast a call was like we made like a big, heavyset Italian-American guy who can play this role. And they cast the guy in it. And they had all the other guys who auditioned waiting in the hallway. And they just said, put them. We're going to need them all. This is the direction we're going. Let's just put them all in this show.

That's why everybody kind of looks like big pussy. I like to think that on the first day of shooting, when all these gumbas were together, the guys had done the work on their own. Like they had figured it out. I got a character. It's fully fleshed out. He's human. But he's also got a lot of pathos. And then they saw polywallness to his thing.

And they were like, oh, fuck. That's the direction we're going? All right. just panicked and did what he was doing. Plenty of actors who read that script and thought it was brilliant and auditioned and they had done all of their training from Juilliard and they had written their notes in the margins of the script

and then Polly Walnuts, who has never acted before or since and just walked straight out of like a literal crime to just start being Polly Walnuts and they're like, okay, well, as long as it went to it went to one of the greats, as long as I've lost out on this role of a lifetime to someone who put the work in you have somebody watching from home

I really should have that job I've done that by the way that's um for people who don't know I tried to be an actor when I first got out of college I was working jobs that would allow me not to like advance a career but that would allow me to go audition and so I was in a couple

of directed DVD movies, but also missed out on a few. And there were a few that are now very popular, like shows and movies that are very popular now that I was like close on and didn't get. And while this never happened with the popular ones, there are certainly movies where I went in, auditioned multiple times, even did like a screen test. And they put me on a veil, which if you're on a veil, that means like, hey, this is when we're shooting. We need you to not have work during this time because we're planning to hire you. He just got all the way to that point, didn't get in it, watched the movie, and saw that some of my ship that I brought to the interview,

to the audition was in there. But anyway, I would see stuff in it that I was like, I did that. I brought that to the room. Like, I was a decision that I made early on. I was like, oh, this will help, this will help. And they were like, you does help. It helps us an awful lot.

So anyway, I could see that happening. Just for a little bit of insider info for our listeners, when they put you on Tech Avail for that movie where they said you're not allowed to work because we want to hire you. Did they pay you? No. That's what I wanted our audience to know is sometimes in this industry, they can tell people we are going to hire you.

You are not allowed to take any other work during this week in the future. And we're not going to pay you to hold that time. For your audition time. And we might just say no at the last minute and then you don't have any of the jobs. All right, go on. How did Cliff Clavin do it? Well, so yeah, what they do is they're like, first of all, you're coming in auditioning multiple times. If they like you, and that's a good thing, you require, that's a whole new sunk cost like you weren't anticipating, which is you're coming back over and over because now you've got to come back for producers and the director and like all these different people who need to see you.

And they're going to have you try new things. They're going to have you like, if you came back with the exact same performance the second time, you're not fucking getting hired, man. They want to see you bring something new. So you're supposed to be thinking about this even when you're not there. And so there's a lot of sunk cost in the beginning of this of auditioning. And then to the point where they're like, hey, get ready to go to Canada, man, we're shooting. And you're like, okay, great. And then they don't hire.

They're like, oh, you know what? It was much cheaper to go with somebody local. So we just went up with Sorin. Good news. Quit your job because your job is movie star now. This industry never seems more pathetic than when we successfully negotiate a contract with the studios, which the Writers Guild just did. not too long ago, uh, to avoid a strike like we had a few years ago. We got a contract and like when we talk about the wins, it's, uh, some great stuff for our,

for our health, health care plan and, and a couple other things, great things for like junior writers. But some of the wins are like, we have now made it mandatory that if you have to rewrite an entire screenplay that someone else wrote, they have to pay you. for that now. It's such a pathetic win to get a hundred years into into movies as an industry and like the wins that actors get are similar

where it's like huge news guys if they make you quit your job and relocate for a month and put in three weeks of work they have to pay you for some of it. This is back for us. It used to be free. I came out to pilot season

when I was in high school with my mom. And that was like a very big deal because you're out here, you're out in Los Angeles. Pilot season is the season when all of the shows are casting at once. And like they know because they're going to get all the kids and people from all over the country

are going to show up in Los Angeles. They're all going to stay at this one furnished apartment complex called the Oakwood. And you know that you've got everybody for like February and March. So every show is going to cast right then. And I came out. I came out for pilot season at the behest of my then acting teacher who was like,

you got the jobs kid she doesn't sound like that she's a very nice woman but she I came out with a couple other kids had representation like had the whole thing got very close

on a show that I was like coming back for callbacks for I don't think I ever did a screen test for it but I got a lot of callbacks and then didn't get the part but in the process of like doing this, it almost tore apart my family because my dad didn't want me to be out there.

He wanted me to be in school because I'm missing school for February and fucking March where I'm like trying to do it abroad. And I was not the best kid there because it was like a college experience where all my friends were staying in the exact same place where I was. And I didn't live in a cabin in the woods all of a sudden. I was right across the hall.

So like we were fucking around a lot. And it was not a good experience. I think my parents almost got divorced from it. But the show is called Teenage Wasteland, which then went on to be called That Seventy Show. That 70 Show. Yes. Yes. I went on one like approaching professional audition because I used to in, in, from like age 12 to 19 or 20 or so, thought I wanted to be an actor. I was very into acting. It was important to me before it became a thing that gave me panic attacks. And I was a freshman in college majoring in acting. And there was an audition for an independent.

movie, an adaptation of a book called Vernon God Little. And it was, auditions were in Philadelphia some Saturday morning. And I was the age who could play the part I'm a high school kid. And I read the book that it was based on twice to prepare for this thing and like did accent study because the thing was set in, in West Virginia. So I was like, I'm going to, I'm going to go to this thing. And I'm going to do it in my normal voice. And I'm going to ask them if they want West Virginia accent just because I want to show off that I have read the book and that I can do this accent. And I'm going to, I'm going to wow them. And I'm going to have a lot of different ways that I do this.

And I got up early and I drove whatever two and a half hours it was to get to this audition. And I sit in a room with a bunch of people who looked exactly like me. And I go and I read it once. And they just say, okay, thank you. And then I leave the room. And I think even then at that time, like it wasn't, I feel like I've had auditions in high school in college where I was like, I think I nailed that. And this was an audition where I walked out thinking like, I don't, I don't think I had a chance to nail that. I think I was just like

stretching, basically. And I also somehow intuitively felt like, I don't think this is, I don't think this is an anomaly. I think this is what acting really is. It's not high school theater where they open all the doors for me because I am the rare singing boy. This is. This is what. And I'm, is in a room full of full of singing boys. They're lousy with them. It's a room full of Danny Zucos.

And everyone in here is the best in their school. And I don't think I like acting anymore. That wasn't like the catalyst to get me to do it, but certainly that was part of my brain was like, I don't think

pursuing this professionally is going to be very fun in this particular way. And I was right. writing is fun it is you know what I think acting preferred me a lot for writing because there's so much rejection There's so much rejection along the way And a lot of it has nothing to do with you And that's really freeing in that realizing that like

Oh, it just wasn't that Somebody's family member got this Or they wanted a kid with dark hair Or like whatever it was There was just or is cheaper to hire Canadian Like whatever it was there was like Right You auditioned for a teenage wasteland

And I'm sure you did good But at the end of the day They wanted a Wilmer Valderama type And he just That was the role It just scanned better for Fez So this is actually a nice segue to John Ratzenberger

and how he got the role of Cliff Clavin. Okay, so he went in and he was going to audition for Norm. And there was no Cliff Clavin. There was like a guy who was, I think it might have been, he might have like one line or something like that, but he was not going to have an extended role on the show. It was just you needed a bar patron basically. Probably didn't even have a last name.

at that point. He did the audition for Norm and he starts to leave and he's like, man, that did not go good. That was, I know that they're not going to hire me. He could like hear them putting the headshot in the garbage kit as he was leaving. And he turned around and he was like in a panic, turned around. I was like, hey, do you have a know-it-all? And they were like, what? And he was like, every bar, every bar that I've ever been to has a know-it-all.

And from anywhere like in England and like wherever you go, there's a know it all who says who like a lot of times they're wrong about shit, but they say they know everything. And then he just starts doing it. And so like they're like, I think the example he gives was like some guys having a debate in a bar about how long a whale's intestines are. Then they go to this guy. They're always like, hey, Sarge, what's the length of a whale's intestine? And then immediately that guy will be like, uh, Baylene or blue? He knows everything And so they were like, yeah, we don't have that.

And when he started doing it for them, they started to realize it would crystallize in their brain so clearly of like, oh, yeah, we absolutely need that. And he got the job. And then he became that. And then they wrote around him because he was so good. I hope he did that on every audition he went to before Cheers. Dude, does your, does this St. Elmo's fire have a know-it-all barfly? You know what this good morning Miss Bliss show needs. No, but thank you.

There were auditions where I knew that I blew it in the last minute. Like, their audition, like it's so, it's like a first date where you're just, everything you do, they're just looking for something to not, like, about you. I mean, they want you to succeed. Their career depends on you succeeding, but they're also like, what is going to be the problem with this guy? What is this, what is going to be the thing? And there's auditions that I've had where they like, it went really, really well. And then as I was leaving one time for a commercial audition, I think it was for like toothpaste or something. I was leaving and I was like, hey, uh, good luck with this. And the guy was like, what do you mean? And I was like,

well, it was just the whole process. And he was like, okay. And I left and like, as I left, A toothpaste commercial, they're bringing in like three kids at a time. They're not even giving you the benefit of like auditioning by yourself in that vulnerable moment. They're like, number two, step forward. Number two, say your line. Number two, step back. Number three go. And so I went, I left the room.

And as I left, the other kids that were in that room with me, they were like, man, you got that. They loved you. And I was like, I did a thing at the end that you didn't see it. And I don't know why, but they really hated it. And, uh, and I never. got never heard back from them never even got a call back man yeah well hopefully they took what you said to heart and the the process of the toothpaste commercial i was trying to be fun with it to show that i was a good sport that i understood where they were coming from as well um anyway

the things that i learned from that were with auditioning and was like do something do something unpredictable in the room, but also that still works. And my finding that is always really hard. And then you know where else that really paid off was when I did, agents have cracked. Hell yeah. Where I was, it was a Cliff Clavin moment where I had like there was going to be one character who,

you guys were doing a nicknames episode and Michael was trying to, you were trying to find a nickname the entire time. And you finally land on T-bone. But there's a T-bone already in the office. And T-bone has two lines. And I was like, what can I do with T-bone? I'm going to make this better. I'm going to make this good.

and then you let me come back you let me come back as T-bone multiple times you became a a cornerstone of the show because you could act and we needed we needed someone to come in and do some real acting

and with acting comes stakes so we had to kill you because otherwise there were no stakes and then season two rolls around and it's like oh no we killed our actor we got to write him back into the show and so we did

We just had you keep coming back. It was really fun. I talked to, I just did an interview from somebody. I don't know if we were allowed to talk about this yet, but there's somebody who's doing a documentary about the golden age of, of internet sketch comedy or what we considered it to be. It was like when Paul Schumer was at its height and everything like that. And in that interview, they're like, well, how did you get into Cracked?

And I was like, ah, trying to remember. Because I usually when I tell the story, I'm like, oh, it's for the article. side. It was like, Dan would, every once in a while I'd fill in for Dan's Colin, but I was like, you know what? I don't think that's true. I think it was when I did, uh, agents of Cracked. I think it was getting in through their first, because I was still not on Cracked by any means when we were doing the first agents. Is that right? Yeah, I was, I was a trails boy. Anyway, um, it helps auditioning, all that failure, all that terrible stuff that happens to you and that little, the little pieces of your soul that get pulled away from you. It pays off. I was, I was on the other side of,

of casting a bunch of times for cracked when we were, we were making more, uh, professional shows and wanted the higher actors instead of just our, our buddies and stuff and would sit in, because I was curious about the process and, uh, it's, it just made me feel terrible for actors because we have like, a scene for people to read and they travel and they wait and they go and they do

their best. And sometimes we can say things like, can you try it another way? And, uh, and we, it was like, me and Adam and Katie Stoll, who was our casting director, reading with them and like, we're all nice people. So we are, we're laughing and we're engaging and we're being, we're being playful because we want everyone to have a really good time. And I'd heard horror stories about casting. So we're like, let's just keep this fun. Let's make this fun. Let's laugh when they land the punchline. Let's ask them questions. None of them are getting the part. Yeah. They're all walking out of that

room probably feeling like I really had them laughing it was really fun I think they really liked me and it's like yeah we did like you but we're just not you're not we liked everybody we pretended to like everybody who was here today and and we're very sorry about that the other thing that made me feel really bad about the industry is I don't know if writers are always in the room for casting sessions but I think people were told that a writer was in the room I'm sure actors were like sharing that information on their way out because it was an entire day of beautiful women auditioning for a show, walking in with the script and saying, I love the writing. And I just thought, it's not good for me to be here. I should, this is, I'm going to, I'm going to cast them all. That's, this is,

tell me more about that. Tell me more about how much it. That's, that's, that sucks that probably works places that. Would you say that the writing was hot? Would you say it was like, handsome? It was a handsome. Yeah. handsomely written. Is the sexiest thing a man can do, in your opinion, to create a world from nothing? I don't want to put words in your mouth. Would you say the sexiest male organ is his brain? I don't want to put words in your mouth.

I guess that's kind of my job. Crazy. Yeah, well, everybody, I hope that this was enjoyable. I hope we learned a lot about casting today. Actually, it would be fun to come back and talk about pilot season. It was a very weird experience in my life. At some point, we can go into it at length, because there's some crazy things that happened. Getting, just like as a little peak auditions where it was clear that the casting director was an older gay gentleman and was interested in maybe we do something after this.

and me wanting the role playing along. Like not going and doing something with them afterwards, but like flirting back because you're desperate. And how like how that feels is pretty rough. So anyway, we get it to all that at some point. And I want to get into it. I want to do more of an episode about casting at some point because I, I think that is like stealthily one of the most important things in movies and TV shows.

And it doesn't get, it just now has a category of the Oscars that even that feels kind of half big. It just seemed like someone was like, yeah, we should do something. So let's just, let's just give a casting Oscar now and not really dig into what we mean when we say that.

But it's, it's truly like, yeah, they're casting directors who just, they don't just like, find people. They, they coach them and they advocate for them.

If they think someone, someone is really good and someone is really weird. They are, they are like keeping their career in their hands, basically. Just like, I, I saw this person and I don't think they're right for parks and recreation, but I'm going to,

I'm going to hold on to Dirk Blocker or Stephanie Beatrice or whomever it is for Brooklyn Nine-N-9. I'm going to hold on to this person until I see a show that has a hole in it. and no one knows what to do with this whole, but I do because I have been following Chelsea Peretti for three or four years. You know, it's not writers or directors who are doing that. It's a casting director who has seen everyone

and is like, this person should be on television. I'm going to wait for the opportunity to find the right spot and put the right picture in front of the right person. It's crazy. There were a few cast directors that I knew because I'd been to enough of their stuff and they did like me, but it was always, you were fucked.

if you went into an audition room and like you went in with somebody else and they were like, oh, Jesse, how are you? And like there's clear that relationship exists. You're like, oh, motherfucker.

I'm cooked. But yeah, we should definitely talk about that at some point. It was there are, it's reminding me that there are, that everybody knows who the good casting directors are in the industry as well. They're like, if they see a show is,

is casting. And then they find out that this is the person who's casting it. You can see different agents, managers and stuff get excited because they're like, oh, this is legit. This show's going to go. Any indication that the show is going to go. Because so many of them don't.

And getting that casting right gives it a really good chance of going. And so if you can get on one of those, that's where the money is. Okay, that's it. Thank you for listening to our show. This has been quick question with Sorin Daniel. If you liked our theme song, that's by me, Rex. If you like this in a video format, you can watch that on YouTube. See how sweaty I am in the beginning.

Yeah, just take a look. I mean, take a look now. Oh, really? You're just a little flushed now. But I don't think the head cans are doing you any favorites. I think that they are keeping your head earmuffs, like a little bit warmer than the rest of it. If you want more of this podcast and you can't get enough of it, you can become a Patreon subscriber and we do shorter versions of it. As always, thank you to Gabe Harder, who is a sound engineer editor, producer, and show guru.

And also thank you to Mack, who is filling in for him currently. McKenzie is doing a wonderful job. Hi, Mac. Thank you, everybody, and goodbye. Bye. and answer they're going to find it. I think you'll have a great time here. I think you'll have a great time here.