Quick Question with Soren and Daniel - The Madame Web Episode

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

The guys watched Madame Web and obviously had some thoughts. Let's get into it.Thanks Raycon!. Go to buyraycon.com/qq for 20% off plus free shipping.Sign up for a $1/month trial period at shopify.com/qq

I've got a quick, quick question for you, alright? I wanna hear your thoughts, wanna know what's on your mind I've got a quick, quick question for you, alright? The answer's not important, I'm just glad that we could talk tonight So what's your favorite? Who did you get? When will I be? What's it up to? Where did all the good weeks not? Oh, forget it. Saw a movie, Daniel O'Brien.

Two best friends and comedy writers. If there's an answer, they're gonna find it. I think you'll have a great time here. I think you'll have a great time here. So, hello again and welcome to another episode of Quick Question with Soren and Daniel on the podcast, where two best friends and comedy writers ask each other questions and give each other answers. I'm one half of that podcast, author of How to Fight Presidents, a book, senior writer for Last Week Tonight, a television show, and King of spring, Daniel O'Brien joined. Ah, fuck.

Damn it. It was such a nice big leap. I know. And then it just ate, you ate shit. And we can't go back because the podcast is live. Thanks to Raycon for supporting Quick Question. Raycons offer amazing quality audio at half the price of other premium audio brands. Go to buyraycon.com slash qq today to get 20% off your Raycon order, plus free shipping.

Thanks to Shopify for supporting Quick Question. Shopify is a platform designed for anyone to sell anywhere, giving entrepreneurs like myself the resources once reserved for big business. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash QQ, all lowercase. The King of Spring is wonderful, Dan. How has nobody thought of that yet? I don't know. I think it's because it's me and no one has been me except me.

it's me and no one has been me except me. And I feel bad because I know that you in California, you've got a lot of rain this year and that's always such a bummer. We had every single year I get tricked by fall spring and thinking spring has come too early. Every year I'm made a fool. Except this year. This year I'm pretty sure it's spring and spring forever. And it's a true spring.

And I'm ignoring the fact that we had our first 60 degree day in months yesterday. And I didn't look ahead to the weather because why would I bother? It's spring. Spring is here. Just don't need to look at the weather to know it's time to throw away all the big coats. I think that speaks to your eternal optimism, Dan.

I think that's a good thing. That's a good quality to have. I do the same thing on road trips where I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, I remember this spot. We're like 15 minutes from there. Yeah. And I'm never, ever, ever right. No.

Never am I more delusional than when I have a long ride and the GPS is like seven hours and 15 minutes. And I'm like, yeah, you're just saying that though. I could do it. It's not that. Oh, man. It is feeling a little spring like here too. We obviously we've been having our torrential rains and it's been cold and miserable but occasionally like the sun peaks through and i'm and i look around and la is never more beautiful than in the spring after a rain because it's the only time you'll ever see like

the hillsides be green here the green hills yeah i remember oh it's gorgeous one of the my last few years there there was a ton of rain and then just driving through and seeing all the green for the the literally the first time in like nine years of living in los angeles just seeing how much green just all that potential green that had been hiding the whole time yeah there's i mean it'll all be on fire in august but for now it's gorgeous uh potential green another decent name for this podcast because we thought there's gonna be so much money in it and it just didn't. There just isn't. Unfulfilled Green, yeah.

Yeah. All right. Well, we have something really special today. We do, yeah. It's rare. There's a lot of things that are rare that's happening. It's rare that we're doing something very topical. a lot of things that are that are rare that's happening it's rare that we're doing something very topical uh it's really rare that we're going to talk about a movie that we've seen

that we've both seen that is a recent movie because you're on a i know a papa's schedule of seeing movies 15 years after they come out in a in a plane half rememberedremembered. Yes. So this is... I'm falling asleep halfway through. No, I'm not really clear on the second act of a movie, because I fall asleep. But beginning and end, I can tell you anything. Yeah. And you assume most movies end on a positive note because everyone around you in your version of the theater claps.

Yeah, that's right. It's also a dumb thing. I never never want to i want people to stop doing we got an assignment um because there's a uh it's very funny that like as we're recording this the movie that is poised to sweep box office records dune 2 is out right now and it's the thing that everyone's talking about and so you know we gotta cover madame webb on the pod madame webb baby don't forget about the little guy i love much like the the tiny spider this movie could be forgotten but it's very very dangerous just before you got on the podcast

i was talking to our president of podcast operations, Gabe Harder, who assigned us this movie. It was like, I think you guys should watch this movie and talk about it for the podcast, because there are a lot of takes on the, the web as it were.

And before you got on, he was like, I was, I was wondering if you guys were mad at me or if you felt like this was an insulting assignment and i was like i wasn't mad but did you watch it he goes no like well now i am now i feel like teacher should do the homework too it's not it's not fair oh he hasn't even seen it oh he just liked the takes he liked all the takes yeah that's fair um i didn't i wasn't actually exposed to many

of the takes because i'm blue sky nobody talks about shit over there don't try to get your news or anything from pop culture from blue sky it's impossible yeah blue sky is where i go to because i haven't like curated my blue sky list of who i'm following yet and the algorithm is not uh doing anything over there if there even is an algorithm. So I go there to see what you and Josh Gondelman and my boss Tim had to say a couple days ago. And so we should also preface this by saying that Madam Web stars a person that I know in real life. Her name is Dakota Johnson. And she is my,

one of my good friend's sister. So we kind of grew up with her when she was, when she happened to be in Aspen, which wasn't all the time. I mean, she spent a good deal of time there. It was basically like three kids. It was Jesse, who's my friend,

Al, his little brother, and Dakota. And Al and Dakota are like pretty similar in age. And they would occasionally be there but what mostly would happen is we would all go to jesse's we would drink a bunch of alcohol and then i would sleep in dakota's bed or al's bed because that was just an unused bedroom right um she is we'll talk about the madam webb of it all i'm sure at some point in this episode but she is a very unique celebrity in her ability to completely dominate internet conversation yeah in a way that i haven't

really seen other celebrities uh dominate and it's unclear uh how if she because it doesn't seem particularly intentional that she is going to have lightly chaotic press tours associated with every film that she does and promotes. She'll always have something unhinged to say in an interview somewhere that'll just spread like wildfire across the internet in a way that is like really entertaining. Like if she's doing it on purpose i think that like this is a fun that's a fun way to be for a celebrity it's cool to be like a little bit insane and to pretend you don't know why anyone thinks you're insane while you deliver unhinged take after unhinged take i think there's somebody i mean robert pattinson is also somebody who's doing that who's like yeah just gonna they're just gonna make stuff up whatever interview they're doing it's not an opportunity for them to

say anything truthful like they're i assume that's true like your first press junket that you do you say the same thing 175 times and so yeah they're at at some point both of them just broke and they were like well i'm just gonna make some stuff up then um right and and everything not even just press junk it's like she did that tour of her house and like i guess somebody came in and did some set design beforehand so she was just like commenting on all of those things as though they were the most important things in her life like the limes in her kitchen where she was like i can't get enough limes i love limes yeah just because some art department put a bowl of limes in her kitchens and she's just like a like a perfect improv student just yes and did the

limes and was like i have these limes i love these limes i can't get enough limes and everyone's like man she's nuts for liking those limes and then it wasn't until like a few days later that she'd be like yeah i didn't i had nothing to do with those limes. What are you all talking about? I'm allergic to limes. And we're all like, ah, why? Yeah. Why did you do this? Why are you doing any of this? She was on talk shows. Yeah, she went on Ellen and Ellen was like, they're talking about Dakota's birthday.

And Ellen was like, why didn't you invite me? And Dakota was like, well, here, this is the embarrassing thing. I did. And you never responded. And like went on this elaborate explanation on how she invited Ellen to her birthday. And Ellen said, like, anden increasingly is starting to like believe her yeah and then like that gets over and everyone's like did you really invite ellen to your birthday she's like no so she just went on ellen and lied to a bunch of 45 year old women on at home folding laundry i

think she's great i think she's awesome yeah yeah she's great anyway she's not great in this movie um but that's not her fault i don't think no we should talk about it yeah i want to do some some a little bit of industry table setting because i don't know how yeah aware you are of like the the sony marvel spider-man stuff that's been going on oh no i'm not i do have a lot of questions for you about this though but yeah you you please set the table so like marvel is marvel and they have all of the marvel characters that you see in in avengers and uh captain america all the movies that you that the only movies that have been allowed to be made for the last 20 years are all these marvel movies

and uh they're characters that are owned by Marvel, with a few exceptions. For the longest time, the X-Men never crossed over into the Marvel Cinematic Universe because they were owned by, I want to say, Fox. And now that ownership has shifted over to Marvel's purview. And for a very long time, Sony owned the rights to spider-man specifically and it was a it was a real coup when marvel could get spider-man licensed away from sony and they're like you still own him but we're gonna like we're gonna co-own him a little bit to put him into our marvel movies because he is the most popular superhero of all time and we are marvel we have have this money. So you can still make- Yeah. It's a rare moment of like studios saying,

you know what? If we just put our heads together, we could just both make lots of money. How about that? And they came to that agreement. It's owning Spider-Man is a crown jewel for Sony. And it's so clear that they just don't know what to do with it they have spider-man and all of the accompanying like his whole rogues gallery of villains too and it's very clear that sony is like we have spider-man this is a huge opportunity we cannot blow this

how can we blow it though and they've just been like a piece at a time blowing it like very clearly they see what marvel has done and they're like we can build there's no reason that we sony can't also build a cinematic universe full of rich characters from ip that we own and control surely we should be able to do this. And they made Venom, which is like a sort of a camp masterpiece, but not a movie designed to launch a cinematic universe. It's very much Tom Hardy is like, I'm going to make my weird, a Tom Hardy Venom movie. I'm going to make two of them. I might make three of them, but they're not, they're not interested in world building or cinematic universes at all. Marvel also tried Morbius, which was like famously terrible, not even in an enjoyable way. And now they've got

Madame Web this year and Kraven. These are all like, they're, they clearly were laying the groundwork for like a Spider-Man adjacent Sinister Six cinematic universe. And they're introducing all of these classic beloved Spider-Man villains and side characters a movie at a time. And they're just eating shit almost every step of the way. It's really something to behold. That's very telling. Okay. This is a lot. i didn't know like

i didn't realize all this because i was like all i knew was marvel cinematic universe and everything in my mind belonged to the marvel cinematic universe i didn't realize that there were competing studios that were like well competing is is maybe right too generous for what sony is doing but that that they're like some people like there's clearly one side has gotten it down and they're like okay yeah we know what what's going to do well we know it's going to do well internationally like we're going to make a movie that people will enjoy that will have 136 characters in it and then the other side is like okay okay we're going to start with four oh fuck i tripped on my dick. Oh, no.

And it's really like, bless Sony's heart, because they must think, they're like, they must just think, we've got Morbius. Morbius is a famous character from Spider-Man. People love Spider-Man. People like Morbius a whole lot. And we've got Jared Leto, who's like a real actor. We got like an actual actor who's going to be in our Morbius movie. Okay. Are we missing anything? No. Start the cameras. Start shooting. side of our brains is has me every time that i notice something unique or strange in a in a piece of pop culture my instinct is to not be like hey look how strange it is is to be like okay is that

strangeness intentional right and like in this case it's a across the board broad strokes bad movie and i'm like okay is there a reason Is there like a good reason why they intentionally made a bad movie? We'll get to that at the end. My now pet theory on why this movie exists. But I do have a lot of questions to start. Okay. That I think you can answer. One, this is all like, this is from comics, right? Like they, these people all existed in the comics. Yes. Okay. I'm not as deep into the rogues gallery canon for Spider-Man. Madame Webb is a character who my entry point to her was the Spider-Man cartoon show, which was pretty faithful to comic book origins.

That was. I also remember that i do not remember her in it i remember morbius even being in it yes but uh i don't remember her but there okay so before spider-man even became spider-man there were already five spider people in new york city i at least don't know because you've got the bad guy who dresses very much like a spider-Man and talks about and moves like a spider ceiling guy, as they call him in the movie. You've got Madam Web, who maybe no one else can see. I'm not sure. And then you've got these three other underlings that she takes care of and she turns into spider people. And they're like very clearly spider people.

One has a bunch of legs on her back and like that. and one of them can shoot thread like electric thread of some sort right um and this is all when peter parker has just been born so so why is everyone so shocked about spider-man when spider-man comes along i guess this is my question. New York has been littered with spider people. Yeah. I do believe that the three spider girls that you're talking about, we only see them exhibit spider powers in glimpses of the future. Yes, but it can't be that far. This is just a product of the movie, but they're not adults adults. They're still kids in that when they're doing all their spider stuff. Right.

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for this movie is having a field day making this movie. There's like some examples are like they – she wants to go home. She almost dies when Uncle Ben saves her life. She almost dies. She's a paramedic. She's a paramedic. She almost dies, yeah. And she says, I just want to go home and watch Idol.

They get sad about what happened to Martha Stewart stewart yeah at one point they oh toxic plays a big role in this movie brady spears is toxic plays a huge role lots of things now i went back through and like tried to like figure out if all this literally was from 2003 and i'm not i'm not entirely convinced it was did toxic Toxic really come out in 2003? I thought the album came out in 2004. I have no idea, man. I'm already, I'm immediately impressed at how much of this movie you've remembered

because I saw it. Oh, right. And did not retain so much of this. Like even when you're talking about Ceiling Guy, I'm like, yeah, possibly his name. It's entirely possible. They call him ceiling guy for a very long time. Because they call him

Ezekiel a lot. There's no... They don't do anything with superhero or supervillain names. They're just like, that guy wearing a mask, that's Ezekiel. Why is he wearing a mask? What are we doing? Why are we pretending? Who's he hiding from now? he takes it off constantly too it is really just like this cumbersome thing and like whenever even in public he's just like taking it off a lot because he's

like oh it's not it's not great um okay the reason i'm going to give you a little bit of table setting for how i experienced this movie dan, which was in an empty theater by myself at 1130 in the morning. And so I was able to take notes. Oh, I was able to have my phone. Good. I was so primed for an empty theater. When I got tickets in advance,

I saw that it was empty and I, and it was a Monday afternoon. And I was like, this is going to be awesome. And my plan, I had a whole plan for the day. I did an Orange Theory class with my friend, Susan. And then we got brunch and got mimosas. And I'm like, I am ready for this movie. Even if it's bad, I'm in a good place to see this movie.

And there were three other people in the theater. So that bummed me out. And then the movie is just not good. And that bummed me out. It was exactly, not that we're like saving anything from this movie to talk about later, but this, it was my final verdict. It was bad and not bad in an entertaining way, which was my fear going into it. Cause they were like, the internet exploded when the trailer came out because they were like, this might be like really bad in an entertaining way. And I was like, I don't know, kids, you might be too young to remember a little film called Morbius, which we also thought was going to be entertainingly bad. And it was just bad, bad. And I'm getting a lot of the same vibes from this trailer.

And I still went into it with an open mind and an open heart, hoping, because we had taken good off the table. No one was going into that theater thinking, what if it's surprise great? No, someone would have told me. But I still held out hope that maybe this is so campy and corny or train wrecky that it's so bad that I get a thrill from how bad it is. But it was the worst possible version of itself which is bad in a boring way bad in a confusing yes not thought out well sort of which feels like it has to be intentional um i'm looking up toxic as well and seeing that toxic entered at number 53 on the

hot 100 on january 31st 2004. We got your ass, Madam Webb! Drag him to hell, Soren! Martha Stewart was indicted 2004. This movie doesn't even know when it takes place. Also, they're doing a lot of weird other stuff that's not from 2004, but

for some reason, they maybe feel like it has the atmosphere of 2004. When they're sitting there and they're talking they're having their fortune cookies um bent this is uncle ben and madam webb um when they're emts and uh breakfast at tiffany's is playing and i'm like that's a weird choice to put that song in here that's from like 1993 and then at the very last song of the entire movie is is i think it's called Dream to Me. Dream to Me? Is that the Cranberry song? Sure.

1983. Okay. I don't... They work so hard to make everything from 2003. And then occasionally they're just like, and fucking this thing too. Yeah. I don't know. It doesn't really fit.

I don't know it doesn't really fit the reason Daniel I'm so obsessed with 2003 as being like the date that this movie takes place

first of all I don't know a single other movie that has tried to do a period piece from the early 2000s I think that's fun I would have had

more fun with that if I were working on this movie and I mean first of all right off the bat I would have gotten things correctly. I wouldn't have put a song from 2004, like some idiot. Uh, but I also

would have been like, been very aware that we're doing a period piece on a, uh, a year that doesn't feel too far removed for much of our audience. And we could have fun with that. We could do some winks to the stupid things we were into in 2003, whatever those might have been. Well, that's what I want to talk about. In 2003, Daniel, we were not good at superhero movies yet. We didn't have it all figured out. And there were two superhero movies that came out that year. Do you remember what they were? 2003, I want to say Blade. I don't think there was a blade in 2003 there was there was angley's the hulk oh shit and and there was daredevil oh boy a famously

famously bad interpretation of yeah of superhero movies like one that i think they use is their litmus test for like is this as bad as daredevil? So that gives you a sense of what we were doing in 2003 with superhero movies and how they looked, what they were, and the aesthetic. And I think it's possible Madam Web is a perfect 2003 superhero movie. On purpose? Yes. perfect 2003 superhero movie on purpose yes they were so obsessed with 2003 in the movie i wonder if the whole movie is supposed to be a 2003 superhero movie i'm trying to get back in my mindset of what i was like when i saw things like daredevil and and angley's the Hulk. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, I might've liked this. I, that is such a funny bit for a movie studio to do

where it's just like, you guys, you got it all wrong. You remember when you were 14? You would've loved this. Your taste was worse. There was worse stuff out in the world. You didn't know how you could make good superhero movies.

Grade it on that scale. Right. Maybe it's better than Daredevil. All right, shut up. What else? What were the elements? Matrix Reloaded? The same way like photography came out after painting and everyone was like, oh, fuck paintings.

Like they don't capture it. And somebody else was like, no, there's something about paintings that's interesting. And we should go back and revisit that. And they explored and they explored until they found it. that's interesting and we should go back and revisit that and they explored and they explored until they found it this is the beginning of that re-exploration into what was interesting about a 2003 superhero movie and they were like okay we're gonna we may not have it yet but like we gotta we gotta figure out what it is and we're gonna capture that again man uh i like that as a theory I'm also looking at what was big in 2003 now

the only thing yeah there's one movie that really flies in the face of that and that's X2 which at that point X-Men and X2 had kind of figured out a really great way to do superhero movies one that really helps my case though is the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen which feels just like this movie.

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who's trying really hard to do a creative writing class and the kids just aren't getting it right try to like the very bare bones of a structure of a story and you're like okay listen there's like this super important detail they talk about a lot in this class and you have not put it in your story um it could be as simple as breakfast your main character wants breakfast i see you're not even writing down breakfast. I'm telling you, make it breakfast or something. Give your character a reason to get up in the morning. Ben wants to...

I'm going to go with only Ben, because Ben was the only character that I really understood. Ben really wants this new relationship to work. Okay. We assume that it's Aunt May. I think. And Ben has got somebody new. He won't even say her name to people,

especially like Madam Web because Madam Web is snarky and mean and she could ruin it. And so he's just a guy, an EMT, but it's not his whole life. And he's just got a new just a guy an emt but it's not his whole life and he's just got a new relationship and he's trying to make it work okay doesn't bring her to barbecues doesn't bring her around anybody yet because he's like he's so in love with this woman and she is aunt may aunt may the famous aunt may he is he is uncle ben and uh we meet uh peter parker is is born in

this movie in like a very like an insane just just poor dumb sony is doing everything everything they can to remind us it was like you like spider-Man, right? Okay. He's here. He's here too. Just like the movie. Remember Baby Spider-Man? We don't know why anyone likes anything. There's so many fucking Spider-Man movies that are doing well.

Why not ours? Yeah. It's a, I assume that they have a script into this movie, but there's like, there's some really confusing things that happen in there where I'm like, there's no way that made it past several different eyes.

Like there's jokes in it that aren't actually, that don't make any sense. Like there, I'll go back to the scene where they're like, they're sitting there and they're eating fortune cookies. Uncle Ben and Madam Webb when they're EMTs and they're like going through and like looking at their fortunes. And that's supposed to be like a premonition for the fact that she can see into the future by the way madam webb

you don't know who that is she's a woman who her mom went to the amazon and got bit by a special spider and now she can see the future yeah and she can change it um like a spider uh and it is so funny that they took the one spider-man power that's like premonition like that he can he has the spidey sense and you're like yeah it's not really spider thing but i'll i'll buy it because of all the other stuff and they're like no no that's the one that's the most spidery make a whole line of women out of that she can see uh the future in a way where she like relives it a few times. And she can also, she just sort of learned slash decides by the end of the movie,

oh, by the way, I have another power and I can be in five places at once if I want to. Right, way more useful. And as I'm watching the movie in a theater that's filling up with water and I'm drowning, I'm just with my last breath, I'm like, what do you mean? Is that also like a spider?

Why? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Okay. Where was I? The character motivation that I kind of understood is Ezekiel is very clear to me. He also, like a spider, can see into the future and sees his own death. He's an older man and it's at the hands of these

three teenage girls who in his vision, they're much older and they're spider people and they kill him. He snaps back to the present and he's like, these three girls grow up to kill me. I've got a I've seen Terminator 2. I've got to kill them when they're small

so they can't kill me later. This is his motivation for the entire movie, I think. And I understand that as a motivation. I understand not wanting to die and being like,

I can nip this in the bud right now. Beyond that, I don't think I actually know what he wants. What he wants as a person. He was, he really wanted to get the spider in the beginning of the movie in the, in the

Amazon and get the spider, the wonderful spider powers. Uh, I don't know what's his ideal world apart from the one where he gets to live longer than he thought. What does he then do with his time the movie is not interested in exploring what he what he will do with his life and his power he's just being a rich guy yeah he's he's his what he wants is to just be a a rich healthy guy yeah what we all want daniel um yeah it's i it's not clear to me what what any of the or even madame webb like i don't know quite what oh by the way her last name really is webb yeah her name is cassandra webb something like that yeah mom studied spiders yeah it's it it's it's great well i don't know what she she is an emt but even even that i'm like does she

does she even want to be that she doesn't seem like she gets enjoyment out of anything in the world and most of her friends seem to hate her she's single and not particularly interested in not being single i don't get the sense that she's like hung up on a man anywhere or that the lack of a man is leaving her unfulfilled. It just doesn't like everything else in the movie. It just doesn't matter. It doesn't come up. Not that I think the movie would be better if

she was horny for someone or was like if that was just like another obstacle in her path. I just would like give me something. If she had a sweet boyfriend who was like, if you had a vision that those little girls were going to die, you should protect those little girls. Trust me.

I'm sweet. Here's what I would have. If I could have written this movie, I would have put Dakota Johnson in a position where she is feeling very out of touch. Like it's the first time in her life where she's felt like she's aged out of what's interesting in pop culture. Like her finger is no longer on the pulse,

which is a feeling that every single person gets like that. They're the generation that has moved past the most valuable player. And she's feeling like a little stressed out about that. And like the kids, like the kid, there's a girl who flips her off when she's driving her ambulance i'm like great there we go there's our touchstone and and after that point like it's just like her making all these kind of fumbling attempts to like re-establish that she is young that she is she's on it and that she's hip and it's not working

and then she's in this world where she has to save these three young girls. And what an opportunity, because now she's got these three kids who are forced to be around her all the time. And you can solve it that way. that the and i i credit this to just dakota johnson's whole vibe and not anything that the the movie did on purpose but she has to protect these three girls because she saw in a in a vision of the future that ezekiel is trying to kill the three of them and so she just makes it her mission to protect them for uh the whole movie maybe the rest of their lives. It's unclear. And the decision that I like is what if Spider-Man fucking hated the people he had to save? And that's what they, that's the game they play with her is that she like is mad that she has these powers that she could see the future. The only thing she's ever seen is that these girls eat shit. And she's like, I guess I'll take care of them. But I fucking hate them.

I'm not trying to be surrogate mom to these girls. I don't like them. They don't like her either, which I think is really fun. And if the movie had realized that early and not, I don't know, sometime in post, they could have made the whole movie about that. They could have made the whole movie. It's a road trip it's terminator 2 where the unfeeling sarcastic cyborg is unfeeling sarcastic dakota johnson and annoying bratty teenage boy is three catty girls and i guess two catty girls and one nerd maybe i mean come on casting cindy sweeney as a nerd is like the worst possible choice you could have made

i don't buy it from the i don't she hadn't spoken in the movie and she i'm like no no that girl does cocaine um i like that version I like that version. I like that version of the movie. That's a fun game to play. Yeah, they didn't really explore it too much. And if that's not the point of the movie or the heart of the movie, and it's just like a flavor of it, then it seems weird because they don't spend enough time on it to make it seem intentional. And when it's in there

it's just like a garnish it's like hey pause the movie why do you hate these girls and if you hate them like just let them die it's not yeah i know that's not what superheroes are supposed to do but i don't know it's 2003 you don't have superheroes yet just let them die you're an emt it's it's also clear that like they just didn't know yeah they didn't know what they wanted this movie to be in any way yeah like no at no stage so like i think there's maybe no direction either for a lot of these characters which you feel really bad for you've acted in things before and you know what it's like to really like it's a very vulnerable thing to do to act in something because you have to look like

you're trying your hardest and doing your best at a thing and like and you don't really know what that thing's going to end up being because you are such a small cog in the final product and so like it's such a commitment and a vulnerability that like you're handing over because you are the face of it and then to get fucked like this is really i feel really bad for like the young girls in it who were they this for all of them maybe i don't know it looks like it's their first movie other than city sweeney and i don't recognize them from anything and so like they're just like this could be my launch pad this is is going to be. Yeah. They had every reason to think when someone approached them and they're like,

we're making a superhero movie, a Spider-Man extended universe movie. And these three girls, you are the future of this, of this spider universe. Like they had every reason to think this is their Chris Evans as Captain America first Avenger moment. Yeah.

They could see their next 15 years of movie making and building out this universe because, again, on paper, it seems like they've got all the right ingredients. We've got a major star who's going to be in this famous IP that's connected to Spider-Man and that means we're gonna have the budget to make whatever movie we want to make and again Spider Spider Spider Marvel Marvel Marvel. That's you anyone would take that job really thinking this is it I've i've just solidified my future

all the right all the ingredients are here for the next phase of superhero movies right right and it's not gonna happen for them it's not gonna happen but that's i know i just explained like the on paper of it all but it's still it's so strange to me i think we've talked about this before like what did dakota think she was signing on to yes that's a great question i think about that with like every actor especially when when there's four actors who were announced for fantastic four movie uh and they're all great actors a script isn't written yet it's just you just you you have so much faith in this weird hollywood machine that it's like yeah i will agree to make somewhere between three and nine fantastic four films

and just play this character forever sight unseen with a script right with no script rather it feels like a curse it feels like it's like a monkey paw wish like it it's such a at this point we know we know chris evans is miserable we know even if it works it's still it's still. Either you're in a really bad movie and it doesn't work and then it's an embarrassment or it works and you're that forever. Yeah. Maybe you got the sense too. I was trying to figure out like why they – why the film didn't have all this like fun stuff. Like it didn't have a real game to play, didn't have like a real thread that ran through the't have a real thread that ran through the entire thing.

No. And I was like, well, I don't think there was room for it. Because at some point, they decided the idea of Madame Web was very, very complicated. And so they explain who she is. The whole movie. The whole movie is so slow in terms of how they step everything out. Her discovering she can see the future takes forever. She has like four different experiences where she's like, what?

What was that? I have no idea what's going on. It's like, no, you see the future. Just call them zombies. Like it's like that. We already know we're ahead of you. Just get to where we are. And then let's like have a fun movie.

And they just don't. They're like, no. I don't know if you guys And then let's like have a fun movie. And they just don't. They're like, no. I don't know if you guys know this, but I bought a ticket to this movie on purpose. I wanted to see a Madame Web movie. So if we could just start being one at any time, that would be great. Even me, a fucking idiot who has no idea who Madame Web is. I didn't know she could see the future. The first time she starts to, I'm like, good.

She can see the future and that's her power. Let's see what happens now. But no, we have to like, we just do it over and over again. And like in the most menial ways, like being in a baby shower. The baby shower scene was so strange. You see the future in the baby shower scene.

We learn in the scene that like, she hates all of her friends and they hate her. It's really unclear why anyone has her around anywhere. And they also do one of the many Peter Parker reveals where someone is about to say the name of the baby that she's going to have, which we all know to be Peter Parker. And they like a car horn goes by and honks when they say the name so we the audience don't uh hear it and we just sort of it's like like a cute little easter egg for us but that was like again i i i uh paused the movie in the theater while my foot was caught in a bear trap. I was like, excuse me, who's this part for? What are you doing?

Why are you doing this part? Why aren't we allowed to know his name? We know his name. We don't care. That baby is not the character that I like yet. Are they maybe not allowed to say Peter Parker? I don't know. They must be able to.

Those two words in tandem cannot be used. And they're just like lawyers standing by the writer's room, like looking through the glass window, shaking their finger. I do. Maybe the other theory that I have that is just now coming to me is that this is part of Sony's monkey paw deal with Marvel. That they thought they were so smug a couple years ago when Marvel comes begging for their Spider-Man. It's like, ah, you need us.

And we're going to co-produce these movies so Sony gets money too. And we get to benefit this Marvel thing. And we own all these other characters. And Marvel's like, yes, all right, we agree to your terms. But we're going to have one of our writers write all of your Spider-Man extended universe movies. Like maybe Marvel is standing over their shoulders, subtly making every decision a little bit worse every step of the way. So Sony can just never get a bigger piece of the pie. That could be.

I believe that. It's intentionally bad again again i'm happy with that introducing the miller optics 2kw handheld laser welder it's so simple to use even a rookie can weld like an expert allowing you to boost your shop's productivity up to five to 10 times more than with traditional arc welding processes. Expand your workforce so you can start doing more and making more. Get the Optics Laser Advantage now and start changing the welding game. um yeah there are i mean i have so much written down but it's all about these exclaims at the end of like like a what the fuck but they're they're little details in the movie where i was like i had to stop for a minute because i was like wait a second what what they're one of the first ones

was yeah they're sitting down ben and decoder sitting down and having chinese food they check their fortune cookies ben's got something that's i don't know like a fuck off fortune and then she's got one that's like unclear because it says you are and then it's or you will and then it's like uh scrubbed out it's like clearly some sort of typo and ben has a moment he's like you know what this means don't you and she goes what and he says it means their printer is broken we can't eat here anymore like as a joke yeah and then i was like wait what how is that a joke it's delivered like a joke it sounds like it's delivered like a joke. It sounds like it's supposed to be a joke. It's said by a funny person, but how,

how would their printer being broken to disclude them from ever eating there again? What? Um, and there were a few of those in there where I was just like, I don't understand the logic. And like some of them, some of it's load bearing,

like the kids deciding to leave the campfire and go to a diner doesn't make any sense to me. Like you send one kid to the diner and get some food and then bring it back. Or you like you go get it. You leave immediately. Like there's it's such a weird thing where they're like, we have to go to a diner. I don't have any money. None of us have any money. Wait have some money it's like well what hold

on why do we do all that just pretend that money exists like it's not an issue in this movie and then worst of all daniel they leave the fire there's just a burning fire in the middle of the woods i don't know how many of them made it none of them seem like they're capable of that kind of thing they hate the fucking woods all of them yeah and there's they somehow made a fire because at some point the movie was like and you know they're they're out in the woods they should have a little fire going and these girls just walk away from this burn like fully burning fire and i'm like no no i uh completely forgot about the fire. I was hung up on them just being abandoned in the woods by Dakota Johnson in one of her flare-ups of,

I don't actually care if these girls live or die. Yes. When they're like, we don't have any food. We're stuck in the woods. And she was like, well, I hope you guys are good at foraging for squirrels. And then she leaves. And I'm like like was that a joke they do need to eat

and you are leaving she says give me three hours which is super weird to like go solve all of this and she has to drive all the way back to the city which I'm sure is going to take an hour of that. She's driving back to the city in a cab she stole.

That's the whole movie. She just owns for the rest of the movie then. And she's allowed to own it because she took the license plates off. And at that point, the rules are it can be anyone's. She parks it at an airport.

This is like a stolen vehicle that they know the girls are traveling in. And like they, to set the stage a little bit more, like Dakota is already in trouble because there's a manhunt for her because they think she kidnapped these three girls. Because she did. Yes. That is what happened.

And she's in a taxi that she stole. Then she takes to the airport, parks at the airport goes to peru for a little while comes back gets her car back and and keeps driving it which all like hilarious stuff if they actually hung a lantern on it and said like and and showed you that it was funny but they make no it's so fucking at every turn i feel like i think i'm trying to think if i'm in this movie uh how i would realize it was going to be bad or like if anyone can ever do that in movies yeah which i'm i'm more and more i'm not sure anyone can because i feel like one sign if I'm in this movie and they introduce me to the French actor who plays Ezekiel, the big bad guy, even shaking his hand.

Yeah. He's French? Even shaking his hand, I'd be like, oh no, you're not a famous actor? This is going to be one of the bad ones, isn't it? You're not a Willem Dafoe type. We're fucked. Okay. Yeah. I have a big question about

him have you heard him interviewed or anything like that no does he exist outside of this movie yes i mean i was just just googling him for the purposes of this conversation uh he was uh made famous in some like uh 2009 french film uh so it's possible he's a very good actor i've never seen him in anything and the list of movies he's done i have not seen i need to i want to hear him speak be like a peek behind the curtain he's not doing a performance or anything just speak in english and hear what his accent sounds like because this feels like a very affected weird it sounds like somebody from another country trying to do an american accent and uh it's really it it throughout the entire

movie it was so distracting i couldn't focus on anything first of all because i thought like he's supposed to be peruvian that's where we first are introduced to him is in peru and he's like he's the hired muscle essentially and i don't and then like throughout the rest of the movie he's doing an accent that is not south american in any capacity and i was like what are we where are we what is this guy is this? Like, did he choose to do this? And if he did, that's another moment where you're like you're on set and you're acting against him and he starts doing this. And I don't care how much time it takes for me to get the girls. And you're like, oh, no, he's made a choice. And the director's not saying anything. Oh, this is bad. This is going to be one of those. He, uh, no, I have no way that that sentence isn't going anywhere. I have nothing to say about this person.

I don't think he was good in the movie. I don't blame him for that yet. It's totally possible. I just, um, did a very a very uh insulting impression of his actual accent right uh in that case i'm sorry guy ceiling guy i didn't mean that but man is it it's rough and it's like and i'm saying the other thing is don't cast him if that's like the good if that's his actual accent don't just don't cast him in the role. Get a Peruvian.

Well, wouldn't that be interesting if the person who's from Peru is Peruvian? There's also, okay. I have another Spider-Man related question for you. Cool. Is, does Madam Web have some, is there something with umbrellas with her? Like a, does she carry around a big red umbrella? Uh, I don't remember. My memory of Madame Web from the cartoon that I watched 25 years ago is that she's a much older person.

Yeah, she's an old lady. And she's blind and wheelchair bound. But just knew like... There's no way this is true. Just knew about all the spider people specifically. It wasn't an ability to see the future. It was just like, I know all the spider people, Peter. You're one of them. So I know you. It could be. Am I a hero? am I a hero am I a villain I don't know what could I even do with this information doesn't matter I didn't know that Madame Webb

canonically was blind and I get the sense that the people writing this movie also didn't know that she was blind and so at the last second they're like oh wait she's supposed to be fucking blind alright we gotta come up with a way to blind her she gets blinded by she's underwater and she gets blinded by a firework just such a weird cop-out like you have this opportunity to build this universe where you have a very pivotal moment where like

that determines who the character is like think of even dare Daredevil. Daredevil did it right. Daredevil knows that when you become blind, that's a big deal. This should be some big crazy event, not a underwater firework. Yeah. It's very funny because my dad saw it. My parents saw it on their own

and I was talking to my dad about it. And he is like a good audience member generally he in that he'll he'll he'll like a movie he'll just enjoy himself uh but he didn't like this one and then in our conversation he goes why is she blind in the end and it's a fantastic question it's it's a really, really good question. Like every audience goer should ask that question. And I even like, my dumb answer doesn't even make sense. My dumb answer is like, well, in the comics, she's blind. Still though, who cares? Like it doesn't seem like it's particularly important to the character. Otherwise they would have brought it up sooner. Otherwise they would have brought it up sooner. Yeah. And also juicy. Like you've got somebody who can see into the future.

It can only see premonitions of the future, but can't actually see in real life. You've got like a modern day Tiresias. Yeah. Get to how that happened. No, not important. That's there's just a couple other like little things that I need to address in this movie. Sure.

Dakota Johnson is an EMT and never wears gloves for her job. She's constantly got blood all over her hands. Such a fucking dangerous thing for her to be doing. I don't know why she does not just wear some gloves. It's funny to think if you were in an accident and she was your EMT and you saw her approaching you, you'd be like, no, no, no, not that you. Not this one. Not this one, please. No, thank you.

The other. The other. That one. Ben. He said his name was Ben. That one was competent. I was amazed that how pregnancy is represented in this movie because you have two people who are pregnant, both Madam Web's mama and then also Peter Parker's mama. And in both cases- Hey, can you not say that? I don't like when you say that.

Mama? Yeah. Mama? That's bad. I think it's bad. I think it's bad. Peter Parker's a mother. And in both cases, pregnancy looks like it's pure pain. I mean, they're constantly having these contractions when they're not even like due anytime soon.

Like when I'll give you an example of Madame Webb's mom when she's like hunting spiders in Peru. She is further along than maybe you would like her to be when she's out doing some sort of expedition in the Amazon. But she's like, at one point she's like, like with some deep pain. And Ezekiel is like, are you okay? And she's like, yeah, it's just the baby's fighting me every step of the way. And you're like, no, that's not normal.

That's not healthy. Babies don't do that. And Peter Parker's mama. Maybe I should have phrased that question differently. Are you having that baby currently? Because you're making birth screams. She wasn't. She was just like, occasionally my baby gives me crippling pain.

Just these short births. And Peter Parker's mama has the same deal where she like gets a few like just like weird pangs when before long before the baby ever comes and you're like i don't think you know i don't think anyone in this making this movie knows what pregnancy is like or you didn't look it up you were just like no every every once in a while it's like getting shot in the stomach so like right around the second trimester you you get these gut shots every once in a while no one could functionally be pregnant in the world yeah it's just too painful and lastly daniel i stood up at this moment and threw my hands in the air when it's been okay so the girls

disappeared with dakota it's been probably like two or three hours and they go out to the woods. She says it's going to be another three before she comes back. They abandoned that spot long before then to go to the diner. So all told from the time that they are, quotes, kidnapped to the time when they're in the diner and recognized. Five hours tops. The reason that they get recognized is because a guy is reading a newspaper and they're on the front of it and i was like no no newspapers dark that fast he could have been and he could have done anything he could have been on his phone

like it could have been so the producers of this movie knew 2003 was the past and then they lost their minds. And what that meant specifically, how did we even get the news back then? That's right. The, the hourly newspaper that we all read. There could have been a camera in the diner because there's a woman Shoshana

from girls has access to every camera all over is it shoshana is that who that one is oh yeah she was in the movie that's david mammoth's daughter god damn it david mammoth's daughter's in it and has no resolution also somebody who clearly has no want in the movie who's just like helping this bad guy for no reason with the same technology that we found in Batman. Dark Knight? Yeah, Dark Knight, where they can see every camera everywhere all over the city. Yeah. And so you just put that in the diner.

Easy, easy peasy, easy to do. But Shoshana is like a computer hacker maybe um and and she has no resolution once the guy dies we never hear from her again she didn't pack up her stuff leave like she's just gone from the movie right no jail for her no she's fine the technology is still in that that hotel that apartment the the this movie certainly did make me curious for the next movie in the spider in sony's doomed spider-man universe they've got craven the hunter coming out and uh again it's it's on paper okay it's got a character that we know and aaron taylor Taylor Johnson's a fucking great actor.

I love seeing him do stuff. They got Russell Crowe to be in it. That's one where I'm like, hmm, this doesn't mean what it used to mean. This kind of thing used to be harder to get. Now it's very easy to get. You didn't get Beautiful Mind. You got the Pope's Exorcist. you didn't get beautiful mind you got the pope's exorcist yeah russell's they're not really beating down his door for to make gladiator 2 right now

uh movies you know i yeah i well i hope craven is better i do really like that actor i mean i liked two people in this an awful i had three people in this an awful lot. There's three actors in this film. I'm like, yes, great. This sounds wonderful. I like those people. Put them in a movie together. just seems so scary that you spend your time making this movie and you don't really know what it's going to be you have no idea and then it comes out and it's bad and you're just like oh damn i'll try again that's like for a lot of actors that's just got to be the complete nature of this business you know they don't necessarily have bad taste or pick bad projects sometimes they make bad movies though and they're're just like, damn, all right. Try again next time. So I did some feature film acting when I was younger.

I did three movies that were direct to video. All of them, I say like to a T, all bad. All pretty awful movies. One of was was like a saw ripoff that is as unwatchable as this as madame webb like it's like there's nothing fun i don't think about it now no and i can tell our audience uh how i know for sure and that's i had a party once and we watched the movie and we weren't going to we weren't doing it soren was invited to the party we weren't doing it to like let's make fun of our friend soren was like let's just watch this movie that he's in that he doesn't want us to watch and uh it is definitely

like you said a saw ripoff but the other thing that's not fun about it is they they kill my friend soren in the movie and his character looks like soren and gets really scared when they're about to kill him it's not fun to watch if you like soren because he does a good job acting and it's like well that's what it would look like if soren was scared to death so yeah in the same way we're like i didn't i'll i this was nowhere near what these i'm sure these these girls felt when they got these parts in a Madame Web movie. But it was still like, okay, here's a foothold. All I got to do is my fucking very best.

And no matter what this movie ends up being, I will be fine in it because I'm doing my – I'm trying my hardest. And that's just not ever the case. There's this one movie I did called Blind Ambition about a runner who's blind. Very pertinent to our current conversation, but she's a runner who's blind and I'm like the love interest in it. Her dad in it is played by a famous Indian actor named Gulshan Grover, who's in a ton of Bollywood movies. And he's done some crossover. He's played like a villain in a couple of American movies. He's a big, big name in India.

some crossover he's played like a villain in a couple of american movies he's a big big name in india and the first day on set i hear him deliver this line like a crazy person and i look at the director and i look at him again and no one's saying anything like this is just what apparently he's been doing and i was like oh oh this is gonna be terrible this is gonna be a bad movie we're all fucked it was and it was it was a bad movie um what does she does she learn that she can run even though she's blind yeah yeah her dad doesn't want her to because he's scared but she's like running's been her dream she finally gets a coach coach her coach is vanessa angel uh who is in kingpin okay and the coach believes in her and like teaches her how to run even though she's blind like runs along with her and like guides her and stuff and it ends up being uh she maybe i can't remember i

think she runs the marathon and wins it maybe i don't know we're all cheering for at the end it's been a long time and and then we have a little breakup in the middle of it because i also don't like that she's running i think oh man it's been a long time i thought i could describe this movie that i was fucking in but i can't i don't remember anything about it anyway it's a bad movie don't go watch it i was uh listening to an interview this morning. Josh Brolin was on the Smart List podcast, and he's talking about Dune and why he works with the people that he works with. And it seemed very relevant to this conversation when he's talking about why he likes working with Dune's director, Denny vianueva i guess uh you know just take a real swing on that pronunciation um but he was like yeah i i i like him because there are some directors

uh and no matter what you do you don't know if they're gonna choose the right take and that's and it's just a crapshoot but but working with denny i always know that like no matter what he's gonna he's gonna pick the right one he's gonna pick a good one and like that's gotta be such a scary fucking thing for actors to not have that control over what takes they use and especially if you've got a director who is like all right now do one right that's kind of big that's kind of like this and you want to do your job of like giving them all the options that they're asking for but then you go home go home and you have absolutely no control over what your character is like in the movie. Because you don't get to pick the things that end up on screen. No.

There could be a lot of different reasons why they chose that particular one. You might be dog shitting the take, but like the audio popped or whatever on the other ones. Or there's something in the background that the audio popped or whatever on the other ones or there's something in the background that the director didn't like in the other ones and so like the it's such a small a small percentage of what goes into deciding what's going to be the final take for any particular shot is the actual acting like the acting has almost nothing to do with it i guess in like really pivotal scenes. But you're yeah, you're you're beholden to like these weird takes that you do every once in a while.

Like Shelley Long or no, sorry, Shelley Duvall in The Shining, where he would he would he would take so many takes of her that she like lost the words lost all meaning for her. And like none of it made any sense. And so she was just like saying weird words were coming out of of her mouth that meant nothing and he was like that's the one yeah and it's a bummer because you can't then in press tours be like look i did good acting the whole time i was on set they just didn't pick any of the the good parts you still have to go out and be like i'm really excited about this madame webb movie yeah i mean a hypothetical person has to do that dakota johnson doesn't doesn't have to do that she is the just so much on talk shows and be like i don't know what this movie is gonna be i don't know why anyone's talking about it i don't know why i'm on a talk show currently

i also saw as soon as i watched it and I was like, what the fuck is going on? I just opened up. I was like, Madam Web Reviews and saw one of the first articles that popped up was Sydney Sweeney saying that she did it by mistake. I can't read that because it's behind a paywall, but wonderful. I'm very happy to hear that she did this movie on accident. Yeah, I feel like there's there were lots of clues that this movie might have been bad because I remember when they cast Sydney Sweeney, they were very tight lipped about who she was playing. Yeah. I imagine that's probably because when they cast her, she was playing a different character that you would want to keep secret.

Because now, like, it's the reveal that she's just some fucking spider girl I've never heard of in my entire spider lore consuming life. She's like, oh, they probably cast her as as young Aunt May and then changed their minds and really wish they hadn't said it was a big secret 10 months ago yeah oh that that makes a lot of sense because she is not she should not be playing this part no it's like a goody two-shoes that really all the other girls in it who end up with dakota are there because they are that their lives have fallen apart in other quadrants and they can't like, they don't even have parents around. Sure. She's, she has parents around.

She has somebody who probably is curious where she might be. She has a stepdad. Yeah. And, but she's like, I don't think he likes me. And everyone's just like, yeah,

probably not. Come live with us. And she's like, yeah, that's a good idea. Jesus Christ. Is this our longest episode ever? A hundred five.

No, I don't think so. But we're up there. This is certainly top five. Okay. Let me play us out here. Okay. Thank you, everybody, for listening to Quick Questions. We don't do like a final thoughts on the movie you know like a like a final uh uh score tomato score or fork score

bad yeah well i'm trying to think like the worst kind of fork a fondue fork yeah it's it's bad in a way that is not entertainingly bad and i there were definitely, I texted you and Gabe and our other friend that I wanted to leave while watching the movie. Because I had reached a point where it was like, this is no longer a good use of my time on earth to be seeing this movie. Yeah, to give her a full context, Rocketman, one of my favorite movies. And that's only because I saw it in a theater after about four years of not going to the movies and just like i got swept up in the enchantment of of the film of like you're in a dark space you it's it's a huge screen there's lots of sound and everything like i was i was i bought into all of it for a fucking movie like rocket man and then this movie was the first movie i've seen in a theater in a very very long time and it couldn't do it it just tried to to like disassociate in the middle

of this movie and just like well maybe if i just escape to a world of imagination i can find pleasure in my mind and i couldn't the movie was too distracting for me to daydream. So that's the review. Too distracting to daydream during. But not good. Right. If you're looking for a movie where you can just sort of like not watch it and think your thoughts, don't go to Madam Web. It's not the movie for that.

All right. You can follow Dan and me on Blue Sky. You'll have to just go find us there. You can also email us at qqwithsorenanddaniel at gmail.com. I think that quick question is still on Twitter. You can go to qq underscore Soren and Dan. We have an Instagram, which is qq underscore with underscore Soren underscore and underscore Daniel. And we have a sound engineer editor producer show daddy

show mama in our patreon is patreon slash quick question we have a theme song she liked it at the beginning you can go listen to more of their music that's me Rex you can find them on Spotify or iTunes you can also find their full albums on me Rex dot band camp dot com and we're on

YouTube still. Dan and I did a whole handful of these together, and it was great. And you can go watch them at YouTube slash at QQ podcast. That's it. Yeah. Bye. All right, bye. I've got a quick, quick question for you. Bye. All right, bye. Who did you get? When will I be remembered? What's it up with? Where did all that go?

Oh, forget it. Saw a movie, Daniel O'Brien. Two best friends and comedy writers. If there's an answer, they're gonna find it. I think you'll have a great time here. I think you'll have a great time here.