Quick Question with Soren and Daniel - The Psychopath Test | Ep. 286

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

The guys pull the curtain back to reveal a sordid behind the scenes look at what the bathrooms are like for television writers in the office, discuss the efficacy of a test for diagnosing psychopathy, and Soren shares a very cute story. Dead Presidents Ep. 2 with the incomparable Rachel Bloom is out now on Patreon! Get the whole miniseries about the guys on the money + bonus episodes of Quick Question at www.patreon.com/quickquestionFollow Soren & Daniel on Bluesky:https://bsky.app/profile/sorenbowie.bsky.social/ https://bsky.app/profile/danielobrien.bsky.social

I've got a quick quick question for you alright I wanna hear your thoughts, wanna know what's on your mind I've got a quick quick question for you alright The answer's not important, I'm just glad that we can talk tonight So what's your favorite? How did you get it? How do I be remembered? Words without words a word at all Who are you going to be? I saw a movie Daniel O'Brien Two best friends and comedy writers If there's an answer they're gonna find it I think you'll have a great time here I think you'll have a great time here Soren, let's get right into it.

The show's quick question. We're going to get to some questions that our listeners really want to know the answers to. We are two television writers, professionally. We've been doing it both since 2017, you and 2018 me. You work for American Dad, uninstitutioned. I worked for Last Week Tonight, uninstitutioned. We are professional TV writers.

These are jobs that not a lot of people have. So I'm gonna ask you some questions about this job. Soren, gonna ask the questions that all of our listeners want to know about the two TV writers. Welcome to the top of their games in this industry. And you're gonna ask the questions that all of our listeners wanna know about the 2G writers. Exciting. Working at the top of their games. And you're wearing a guild shirt right now. I'm wearing a guild shirt right now.

Soren, American dad, bing bop boop. What is the bathroom situation like in your office? Let me give you two answers to that because the boys is different than the girls. The girls has a lock on the door and all the girls have a key to it. Now this isn't because it's like an individual bathroom and like you want to as soon as you get in there you lock the door. It's not that sort of situation. It's a situation where there's like lots of stalls. I mean obviously I've been in there a lot so I know. I know my way around the

women's bathroom. I know it's got lots of stalls. I know that it's designed to have several women at once in there. I think that some point before I got there in 2017, something happened. Something like somebody got followed into a bathroom. I don't know if it was a fight or like it was what it was, but since that day, there's a lock on the women's bathroom and my bathroom, the

boys, no lock at all. I kicked that door open and the situation is three stalls, two urinals, and the stalls have such an enormous gap in the wall paneling that some gentlemen who are more discreet will print out six feet of toilet paper and stick it over the top right there to just sort of cover that gap. Oh, trash. Yeah. So tacky. Such bad stuff.

Yeah. So tacky. Such bad stuff. Yeah. So, but I mean, if you don't cover it, you know that somebody's in there and you know who it is, which I'm willing to accept. We have, I don't believe the women's restroom at last week tonight is key only. I've never... It's very far away from where The Boys is. That I'm not even totally sure where it is. And I don't pass it. It's not between the elevator and the kitchen and my bathroom. So I will never have any cause to see where it is,

because those are the places that I go. But we have a similar setup. There are six urinals and a bunch of stalls like a refreshing amount of stalls but like you the the the gap is is never exactly right in any of them and it's wrong in different ways sometimes it's too tight or like too tight at the top and then it sort of like winds out at the bottom and sometimes it's too tight or like too tight at the top. And then it sort of like winds out at the bottom. And sometimes it's a full like, this is two inches of space between the end of the door and the start of the wall. And she's like, what are we doing at this point?

It's more of a formality that the partition is even there. No one expects the partition to do anything. It's just like a, it's just expected. That the only thing separating this from a prison situation is you get a little partition that if someone could peek around, if wanted to peek around, that's fine. They can do that.

No, it's not for privacy. It's just to let people know I'm using this one. You can't come into this one right now. Can't you see there's this little hunk of Lego latching it closed? That means this space is just mine. That is also an issue I'll note that if you pull hard enough on some of the doors, you can just pop them open,

the stall doors. You just took like a one hand on the top and just gave it a good yank. You could rip right through that Lego thing without doing damage to it. It's not formidable. It just will be like, oh, you want to come in that bad? That's fine.

Two other things about our bathroom, we share it with a bunch of other adults. There are some news people in our building, and sometimes we'll just see people in full suits, very serious in the bathroom. And we also shared with a bunch of New York roaches. Oh no. Yeah. You have, wait, you've got cockroaches in your bathroom?

We do. God, that sucks so hard. Are they coming up through the toilet? No, I don't think so. I mean, I don't know how they got to their destination, honestly. I haven't seen them going in or out. I know that last week,

they dropped from the ceiling in the women's. Oh! And it was big news. This sucks. This isn't a thing I'm used to contending with because we do have roaches out here, but they're outdoor roaches and they know they're outdoor roaches. When they get inside, they're like very apologetic about it. They're like, I shouldn't be here.

They're just as startled as you are. Put the glass on me. I get it. I get it. Take me back out where I live. But that sucks so bad. Are you dealing with roaches on like a consistent basis? No.

It's just the best ones at work. I hadn't actually thought about them in a while. And then when Sophia slacked last week, she was like, ah, roaches are off from the ceiling. I was like, oh yeah, they're roaches. Oh gosh. How are they? I guess, you know, I thought maybe they would have moved

out of the city during COVID, but yeah, where are they gonna go? This is their New Yorkers, they're New York strong. So have you seen them in your bathroom before? Yes, but not in years. And I'm in my office maybe six or seven times a year. I don't go in that often. And I was in a few days ago.

And just being in that bathroom, I always flashback to when I started this job and all of the wrong ideas I had about everything. And there's two reasons. One, it's because it was HBO, which I thought was very prestigious, and like, surely it's gonna be fancy, it's HBO. It's in Manhattan, come on now.

That's gotta be pretty fancy stuff. And the other part of my misconception was I had come from Crack, which was owned by Demand Media, which was a flashy, sexy LA tech startup in the early 2000s, which is very cool. All the snacks are the best. The bathrooms are clean. Everything is nice.

Everything is hip. Everything is cool because they want to draw in coder talent into this company. That was my only job. And then I was moving to my Manhattan HBO prestige pay cable job thinking like, these bathrooms are gonna be so fucking sick. I can't wait. And it's just trash, just a trashy bathroom

because of course it is because it's New York and buildings are all old and no one cares about the bathrooms except me. I mean I was startled by this when I was in England. We take for granted how new everything is here. Everything in our country just in general but as you work across the country it gets newer and newer right so there's a lot of old shit on the east coast and stuff where they're just like, they're not going to change it. It's old and they're like, everyone likes it that way. And we don't have any sort of sentiment like that over on the West Coast.

We're like, look at Las Vegas. You don't just like, a casino doesn't close and you just refill that casino with another casino. You fucking demolish it and you build again. You make an entirely new triangle pyramid thing instead. Cause like it's all about like the pageantry and like, we want new, we want new here. And so like, yeah, you move into a house here or you buy a house or you like go to an office. That place is as old as you are.

Like you were born on the same day. And that's pretty common. Everywhere that I go, it's like, I'm in new buildings for the most part. I've been on these coasts, I've been in New York and been very startled by the fact that, oh, there's like real history to everything here. Even the stuff that no one has any reverence for,

it's just, we're not gonna renovate it. We're not gonna do anything about it. You've got these exposed pipes because that's how people used to fucking live. And yeah, I know that about the East Coast, but it's the thing I frequently forget. Things are just kind of like older. It's been, I mean, it's fine.

It's just, it has been an adjustment that I also, I trace along with like my own growth and maturity as a human who's getting older, that at demand media, you could go into the office coordinator and be like, Tim, I got this idea. It's fucking crazy. You're going to love it. You're going to flip for it. Golden grams in the cafeteria every morning.

He's like, I'll add it to the list. Then tomorrow, there's golden crumbs there. Yeah, and It seemed like that's how life was but no it's that's that's a younger man's life. That's Me in my 20s with my flashy office with candy and cereal for breakfast now I'm I'm almost 40 and I'm in an old Persistent building with shit bathrooms and awful snacks. He was like, what do you want, cereal? No, of course I don't want cereal. I eat a protein bar for breakfast every morning and I have a banana that I hate.

So I don't need any of these things because I'm an adult now and adults, you know, are sadder and less fun. So bathroom-wise, I mean, I tell you the partition situation, but snack-wise, my office is fucking loaded. Is it really? It's, it's better than demand media was. They give us whatever we want in terms of food. Like there's any types of snacks,

and there'll be times where Casey Bell, he's our, shout out to Casey Bell, he's our production coordinator. And he's like the guy who's like, what do you want? Do you want, what would you, and I'm like turkey jerky. And he's like, all right, I'll go to Costco and see what I can do. I can only get 60 pounds.

Is that gonna be enough for you? Yes, that would be perfect, Casey. Thank you. And then I'm allowed to keep working. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have, I think it's got to be some kind of situation where we have a deal with some company that is just like,

you will get a box of stuff every quarter or every month, and you have no control over what snacks are going to be in there. You just take them at some kind of discount. And I will go in my six times a year going to the cabinet to see if there are any snacks that don't contain dairy or don't contain egg so I can have them because I just deserve a little treat because I came all the way to the office. So fifth time this year.

I was like, no, there's no, all the chips have milk. All the candy bars have milk and dairy and eggs. You can have one of these strange off-brand shoe leather fruit strips. Ha ha ha ha. That sucks, man. They're just like banana, mango, and it's like contains 98% chia seeds. I'm like, fuck, I'm going to shit like crazy.

This sucks. It's not what I want. It does something that keeps me happy every time I have to go to the office because I got to drive quite a bit always. I mean, I'm not going from state to state like you, but it feels like it sometimes. And when I get there, I am very excited and like excited to be at work because of all of the treats. I get to go look through and peruse and take what I like.

It's like, I would say a huge bonus of the job. No Emmys, but we got snacks, baby. We got chocolate covered caramel small batch. I'll trade, I'll trade. Daniel, I got some, I got things for you here. Okay, good. I'm making noise over here. That's not gonna, there's no microphones, right?

That's not gonna get picked up, right? Me dropping metal next to the microphone while we record? I have two, well, here, quick question for you. Do you wanna talk about my children or a test to see whether or not you're a psychopath? Psychopath test. Okay, all right. So- No offense to your children.

No, it's fine. You know, we're gonna get to it again at some point anyway, so it doesn't really matter. This actually came by the way, I saw a comedian doing a bit about this, but there is like a psychopath test that a psychoanalyst created and said that you could consider somebody a psychopath if they answer this question in one particular way. And so I want to do the test with you to see whether or not you're a psychopath.

The doctor is a woman. Doctor is maybe a woman, I don't know. Oh, okay. Oh, I see what you're saying. No, it's not that. I also was interested in this test because I frequently wonder if I am. And then I was very pleased with my response to it. So here is the question.

It has a little bit of a- If this is the famous question, I'm hedging my bets a little bit. I think I'm thinking of the right question. If I'm right, A, I can't remember what the right answer is. So great. Shit. And B, depending on my answer, I don't think it's a real psychopath test. Proceed though, go on. Well, yeah, I mean, I think you can, it's safe to assume that even if you know the answer to this, you're probably fine, but maybe get checked out. Maybe the important thing is it's not like

legally admissible. They're not gonna say like you failed the psychopath test. No, and that's why you're wanted for this crime. Yeah, we don't have to do any of that. Okay. So and do you think you might know what this one is? You think you might? I think so. It is a funeral involved. Yes, that's right. Okay. Okay. But you don't remember what the right answer is? Okay, here we go. No. So a woman, her mother dies, and she's having a

funeral for her mother, her and her siblings are having a funeral for her mother. And at the funeral, she meets somebody that she's never seen before, it's this guy. And he's very solemn, he's respectful, but as they're just sort of chatting, it's going really well. He's very good at talking to her, even though given the circumstances,

he's really respectful, and she's getting along really well with him. And then as they're talking, she's pulled away by other duties and having to see other people at the funeral. And she does so. And throughout the night, or throughout the rest of the day, she's kind of looking for him, but she doesn't really see him again. And at the end of the evening, it turns out he left earlier. She didn't get to see him again, and she didn't even get to ask his name so she doesn't know who he is but it was like he was handsome and it was going well and so the next day she kills her sister why did she kill her sister is the question my, and this is even before I, I, the answer, she

killed a sister. So she, uh, would see this guy at another funeral. Yes. That is, I think, uh, I believe what that proves is that according to this test, I'm a psychopath. Yeah. And I call bullshit on that because it's, you've given me all of the ingredients for a riddle

that needs solving with some lateral thinking, with some outside the box connections. And I think I'm just really clever and any other, like every once in a while you would do really clever and any other like every once in a while you would do an Encyclopedia Brown story where the way those things work there are children's books about a boy wizard detective named Leroy Brown. Boy wizard detective. He is not a wizard.

He just is a nerd. He gets presented with a mystery, either from his dad, the chief of police, or like one of the mysteries that someone in school has. They're like, I can't find out who stole my lunch. And he gets a bunch of information. He asks usually one question and then closes his eyes. And then by the end of the chapter, he is solved.

You can look ahead to the back of the book to see what the solution is and to see if you, as the kid reading along, could solve it also. Because nine times out of 10, they give you enough clues in the story where it's like, aha, it was Bugs Meany. Because- That's every mystery. I'm shocked if they give you like an answer at the end.

That's, I guess I've never read any Encyclopedia Brown. I love that. Well, every once in a while, there's one that sticks out in my memory where someone they couldn't figure out who had eaten either someone's lunch or like something that someone had baked for a classic- Ah, the mystery sucks so hard in these old books.

Yeah, it sucks really bad. And I could not crack it. And then by the end, you skip to the end, and they're like, it was Bugs Meanie, and Sarcopedia Brown knew it was him because he smelled Bugs' breath, and it smelled like garlic, and that was one of the ingredients in the recipe that someone had eaten.

And it was like, that was not given to me. That information was not given to me in this puzzle. I would have solved it if, at one point, the author had written that was like, oh, P.U. bug smells. But no, because you didn't give me that fact, I could not solve it. I was left to draw my own conclusions, which brings me to the psychopath test. If any actual reason, then that is a failure on the part of the storyteller for not including that information. The answer is that she killed her sister because her sister was the only thing standing in

the way between her and her mother's inheritance. Or she killed her sister because she found out her sister killed the mom, and this was vengeance. And that's how we solve problems in this family. I was not given enough information in the story. The only information I was... I'm getting really heated about this cycle back test. The only information that I was given in the story, and I was given so much of it, was about her connection to this strange man and how she wanted to see him again.

And this was her best shot at seeing him. Yes, to recreate the circumstances of a funeral in which he's clearly close to the family. He must come to these. He would come to a funeral for the sister just as well as coming to the mom. That's exactly right. Now, when I had heard this the first time,

I was not right in my answer either. And it was because of a different detail that the comedian had included, which was he wanted you to clock the sister earlier. I gave you the details of like her and her siblings lost their mom. But the way that he told it was, as she's talking to this guy,

her sister pulls her away to deal with something else at the funeral, just so that you could clock that she was even there. But in my brain, for the same reason, I'm like, okay, log that sister away. And then later when he says, why did you kill a sister? I was like, well, she was infuriated that her sister pulled her away for some other duties and she missed out on her chance to meet this guy. So she murdered her sister. Which I think is probably a worse psychopath. I think that's way crazy. I think that's so crazy.

But like, I watched this video, I paused it, and I was like, why did she kill her sister? Well, I mean, her sister obviously fucked that shit up for her. Her sister cock-blocked her, so that's, Yeah. I would, I guess that makes sense. I would do that.

If I had a sister. That's a normal response to being cock-blocked at a funeral for your mother. And then when it gave me the answer, I was like, oh, yeah, that's bad. Oh, but not as bad as mine. Is there, so like, is there a right answer that we don't know about? In my memory, the first time I was confronted with this, which might've been like high school or something, and I said, killed sister, meet handsome guy, people were like, no, that's not the right answer. And that's not how a normal person's thought process would go, you're crazy.

Then there is no right answer. The right answer is I don't know. The right answer of a healthy brain is I can't think of a conceivable reason why she would have killed her sister with the information you've given me. That's what I disagree with. I think anyone with a healthy brain and a little bit of imagination would be like, these aren't real people. So I can solve this riddle of these weirdos.

It's storytelling. Yeah. I agree with you. I think you are, you think about it in terms of like a movie, that's a dark, but a dark rom-com. Like that's, you could see that happening and it's that there's enough logic there that you would let that pass. You'd be like, oh, I'm dealing with a psychopath trying to find love. That's fun.

That's new. That's an angle I like. But yeah, that's not the right answer. Did you just hear about this recently? Is that why this is coming up? Well, you see, things come to me a little slower on the old Facebook line, Daniel. Things, I don't get stuff when you get it. I'm talking about like 1998. You said you were in school. Speaking of things coming to me slowly, I might as well do the kid thing now too, since I teased it. Something came across, as you know, I'm an avid fan of TikTok by way of Facebook. Anything that makes it all the way downstream to me has been out for six months, maybe a year. I'm just now getting a hold of it and it seems fresh and new to me and I hold it up. I just

found something amazing. There's a mom on, I'm on family TikTok by way of Facebook. They're calling her Chewbacca mom. Oh, Sorin, poor Sorin. You're in for such a terrible ride with her. This mom is, I don't know if she's a therapist or what, but she's talking about the difference between how we were raised and the difference with our own children. And the words and the phrases that we would frequently hear as children, maybe not from our own parents, but that we were keenly aware of and that were were like very common phrases and pretty like harmful things that some parents would say to their kids. And we just were just like, yeah, that's the thing parents say. So I want

you to finish these sentences for me, Daniel. And just to start, and bear with me, I'll tell you how this relates to my kids in a second. Okay. I want you to finish this phrase. I'll give you something to... Kill your sister, meet the guy at the next funeral. That's exactly right. I'll give- Cry about. Yeah. I brought you into this world and...

I can take you out of it. Okay, as long as you're under my roof... You'll obey my rules? Bingo. Children should be seen. Not heard. This is not from my family. This is, I think, just like existing in the world. Okay.

I never heard these from my parents either. I mean, my parents never spoke to me, because we were normal. This one's a little more complicated, or a little bit of a dark horse. Just wait until... Your father gets home? That's what I thought too.

She was saying this one was just wait until you have kids. Oh, sure. Might have been the only one I actually heard. Now, she did this experiment where she had like her 14 year old and she read these things to him and then, and then he responded with like what he thought it would be and it was so fucking sweet that I was like doing it with my kids I'm doing this with my children so I want to give you their responses oh this will be sweet yeah all right to the to the start error

I'll give you something too my son said I'll give you something to my son said, I'll give you something to do that thing. Okay, so you're giving him tools to help him. Yeah. My daughter said, I'll give you something to like for I brought you into this world. My son said, I brought you into this world and now have some fun. And my daughter said, I brought you to this world and this is your new world, my son said, I brought you into this world and now have some fun. And my daughter said, I brought you to this world and this is your new world, sweetie. I forgot that your daughter has lived multiple lives.

Yes, that's right. Yeah, she's reincarnated several times. Just wait until you grow up was my son's which I think might qualify. Like I think that's pretty close. My daughter's was just wait until you grow bigger up. So I think she's just copying him because she didn't know what to say there. This was the only one my son nailed. As long as you live under my roof, you live with my rules he said. And I was like where did you hear that? And he watches Wander Over Yonder and he's like, I think I, it was either there or like Big City Greens or something like that or one of those shows. My daughter says, as long as you live under my roof, you're family with me.

Oh, that's so friggin sweet. How about it? You got to feel good about those answers. Oh, they melt my heart. The last one was children should be seen. This one really got me. My son said children should be seen and safe. And my daughter said children should be seen by you and me. It's just a common thing that parents say. Children should be seen by you and me. Yeah. Children should be seen and safe. That's awesome.

It's really adorable. I should be doing way more of this shit with my kids, by the way. It was so fun. They were both in the bath and I was doing this and it was so funny to me, the answers that they're giving to the point where they were like getting a little insecure about it. They're like, why are you laughing? And I was like, don't change a thing.

Don't change anything. I'm laughing because I love you. I'm laughing because I'm just nailing this so fucking hard. But we're taking the quiz. No, I know, but like broadly, I'm just knocking that out of the park. I'm so happy with your answers to these questions. And I, you know, this song, in some ways, this is unfair because I didn't hear these things either. I think these phrases came

to me through pop culture, which they will come to my children as well. I'm glad- I mean, the idea, I don't think if and when we have kids, I will be literally saying, as long as you're under my house, you will obey my rules. I do think- Under my house. I do think that sentiment will be conveyed clearly in some other way. But a lot of those phrases are just things that I wouldn't believe coming out of my mouth. So I wouldn't say them to the kids. Yeah. I guess I had to think about like, if I'm actually giving these lessons to my children in

some other way, I'll give you something to cry about is a thing that I catch myself doing, which is when my son is freaking out about something and he's clearly got a lot of anxiety about it and it's like a Rubik's Cube where the sticker fell off or whatever, I'm like, buddy, we have to learn to figure out what a catastrophe is. We have to be able to regulate when we feel this way because there's gonna basically save your tears. You're gonna need them. There's gonna be things that you're gonna need. I'm not saying that, but the sentiment of there's gonna be things that you're gonna need that will be bad in your life. And there's things that other people are dealing with that are really

bad. In some ways, that's not a healthy thing to do at all with kids because you're not acknowledging the way that they feel. You're not acknowledging like, and you're saying to them, you shouldn't be feeling that way. You don't deserve to basically. No, but it's, it certainly takes me back to my own life and being a kid who always either either felt stressed or had consumed so much like Rocko's Modern Life and Doug, where I just empathize with characters who were constantly stressed all the time, that it just felt very normal and fitting to me me that I would be 13 or 14 and talk about

being stressed because I had two or three things going on and my dad telling me you are not stressed and I think at the at the it's it's got to be very tough needle to thread because at the time I was thinking without the vocabulary I was thinking, without the vocabulary, I was thinking, no, I am. And I need to feel that validated. I need someone to say, this is that you're feeling what you're feeling and it's okay. And he was not trying to do that, I think, in retrospect. I think he, as an adult with three children all on their way to college, was in the next four years at a job he did not like as a stressed person, like actual adult stress. I think he was probably what he wanted me to feel was like,

you will be stressed one day. You are not right now, so enjoy it. You shouldn't stress out of it. Nothing that you're, again, I don't wanna say your feelings don't matter, but nothing that you're going through matters. Just please have fun until you have a mortgage. Yes, and that's a totally valid sentiment,

but like one that makes no fucking sense to a kid at all. Because I remember feeling the same way, that I was like, my wife still deals with it. Like when she was young, I think that frequently she would complain or things would be bad. She'd try to confide in her parents about it. And her parents would be like, think about children in Ethiopia right now. Or children in these other places, like what they're going through. Which you have essentially a cakewalk, which is what you're trying to do is instill in your child a sense of context,

like your own context in the world and like, oh, I can stop and take a breath, things are actually okay. But that's not what they're feeling in the moment. They're just like, there's something weighing on me and it's really hard. And somebody's saying, it's not actually on you. And they're like, but I fucking feel it on me.

And I dealt with that too. And I don't know what the needle is to thread because sometimes they do calm down when you give them that. Like if you're like, if they're freaking out about something and you're like, hey, take a second and think about this in relationship to everything else around it. Is this that big a deal? They're like, oh, no.

And then they calm down. And so you're like, okay, I want to give you the validation. And so apparently what you're supposed to do is that in the moment, you acknowledge it. You acknowledge the way that they're feeling. And you don't try to raise to meet it with your energy. You're just like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. I'm really sorry that you're dealing with this, that sucks.

And then when they have a chance to calm down, like their full brain is firing again, then you talk to them about calibrating. You talk to them about it like, okay, here's, there's other ways to work through this. You have to be able to control your emotions in these moments and stuff like that. What can we do to work on it together?

That shit's so fucking hard, man. That shit's really, really tough because you also don't always get an opportunity afterwards to do that stuff. And if you do, they don't remember it super well. So they're kind of like, you're getting about 10% in their ear and the rest of it, they're thinking about like, can I watch TV right now?

Can I do something else right now? Why are we having this conversation? I'm done, that storm passed. I don't care anymore. Here's a big one though that I want you to be aware of Daniel in case you ever have children. Were you hurried as a kid? Were you constantly hurried by your parents? No, I don't think we were. I don't feel like they were rushing us around or we were dragging our feet, like to get ready to go to school

or to go to a family dinner or something like that. No, I think maybe a combination of us being pretty on top of wherever we needed to go and whatever we needed to do, a combination of that and just never being an important enough family that it mattered if we relate to something. Okay.

Why? I was not hurried much either, or I don't remember it. I remember as a child, like my parents waking me up and me falling back asleep and that being a problem. Like them waking me up again and being like, what are you doing? And like that feeling of panic. But in general, I don't think I was hurried much.

There's a lot of psychiatrists say, don't hurry your children. That's like the score, core moment that creates anxiety for them and like can have a lasting anxiety throughout the rest of their life is like hurrying your kid. That's all fine and good until you have children. And this is really just the thing I've decided to punt out because we have to hurry our children all the time. Our children, the number of times that I say put on your shoes is like, I don't know, like 15 times.

And I want them to, I'm not going to like get more and more angry because I don't want it to be a rising thing because then they're gonna wait till like 14 or 15 before they know they have to do anything. Now I know that tone. That's not as bad as it gets. Yeah, he's not ready yet. We got four minutes. So we can keep working on this fort.

But it's really hard not to do that. And then trying not to, hearing how bad it is for kids, I really tried hard not to hurry them or just be like, we gotta get to school, we gotta go. It's really important that we go. And it's so hard not to do it because they, they're just drifting through life, man. And like, if you're like suggesting something else

that is not as fun as the thing that they're currently doing, they're like, no, I'm not doing that. And they do have some sense of obligation and certainly the youngest even now does, but getting them to go anywhere, getting them just on time for a thing is next to impossible. You have to work so hard to instill in them the importance of time. And then on top of that, like time allocation for getting ready for a thing. Like just the idea that like,

they think they're ready for school. And I'm like, did you pack your snack? Do you have your backpack? Is your jacket in your backpack? Do you have your homework from last night? Like they're like, oh, no, no. Did you pee? No. Like none of that stuff is done. I'm like, okay, you got to be on the ball with this. Like you got to know the things that you need to do before you walk out of the house. And like,

you just start to get this anger start to rise in you. You're just like, we got to go. And then watching them panic, you're like, ah, damn it, I fucked up again. Oh, well, I give them a lot of good hugs. Maybe that's the thing that'll save them. Let's go back to that quiz again. That quiz was very affirming. I find myself apologizing to my kids a lot because that was shocking to me because I don't like apologizing and I don't think anybody does for anything. You feel something and you're mad in the moment and you're pissed off and then afterwards like maybe I overreacted.

Oh, well, I'll try and fix it next time. You're not ever like, oh, I should go take that back. That's never the instinct because that's so vulnerable and awful to be like, oh, I should go take that back. Like that's never the instinct because that's so vulnerable and awful to be like, I misjudged or I did something wrong. But with kids, it's real easy in the moment to be like, they do something that just pisses me off. And I'm like, I snap at them a little bit.

I'm like, what, what, what do you wanna tell me? And then I realized it happened and I'm like, I'm sorry, Ronan, let me do you wanna tell me? And then I realized it happened and I'm like, I'm sorry, Ronan. Let me try that again. How can I help you? Or like walk it back. You don't like apologizing. I like it so much.

Do you? I didn't used to. I mean, I think it can be a very difficult thing to do, but there were two people. I noticed one of the directors that we worked with, it cracked a whole bunch, Adam Ganzer, would always apologize. I mean, he lost his temper a lot.

So he was apologizing often. But him coming back a few hours later after a tense conversation to say, I was wrong and I apologize. I shouldn't have raised my voice or whatever it was. It was like, wow, that's a thing a person can do. And it feels good to be on the other side of this. And then another very formative time for me involves you and it involves our... What would you say Bacon's function on this podcast is now?

CFO. Get the fuck out of town. Fine. Our CFO. When we all used to work together, someone else that we worked with, who was a good friend of mine, borrowed you in the middle of the day

to do a, to film you for a makeup tutorial where they dressed you up like Ziggy Stardust. And this was like another company that Demand Media owned that had nothing to do with us. And people were stealing you all the time for things. And it always just seemed like, Sorin's going to say yes to this. and they were right because you're a good guy and you do those things and I was at like peak middle management in my life which is to say I had absolutely no control and was very unhappy about it because by the org chart I was supposed to but instead everything was bad and the people who worked for me were complaining to me.

And the people I worked for were complaining to me as well. And I was just completely powerless and not wearing it very well. And then I found out that you had been stolen in the middle of the day to do this favor for free. And I scolded the person who took you away for that. And was like, you can't take my guys. I know he's gonna say yes to you,

but he's on my team and you can't take my guys. I need my guys to do other stuff. If you're gonna do something like this, you have to check with me first. Because I'm just trying to like, just have some control over something. And I also knew that you didn't want to do it. Like I think, like you told me afterwards, you were like, this is why I wasn't at this

thing. I did this other thing. And I was like, I'm mad about that. And I think I'm, I'm allowed to be bad about that. And then like a day after that confrontation, I talked to our CFO, Bacon, and I was like, let me run something by you. And he, before I even talked, he was like, I know what this is about. You should apologize to her. I'm like, yeah, yeah. I think the reason I am so reticent to apologize is that the apology, if it doesn't go the way

exactly like I want it to, I'm more mad. I'm more mad than I was. So if I'm so reticent to apologize is that the apology, if it doesn't go the way exactly like I want it to, I'm more mad. I'm more mad than I was. If I'm heated about something, and usually when I apologize, it's almost exclusively because I got too angry. It's never like I was selfish or did something where I was like, oh, I stole from you or anything like that.

It's just like in the moment, I got very, very mad. And I was like, I'm not like, maybe I raised my voice or whatever, but when I go to apologize to somebody and I got very, very mad. And I was like, I'm not like, maybe I raised my voice or whatever, but like I will, when I go to apologize to somebody and I'm like, hey, I didn't react right there. I'm sorry. If their response isn't immediately like, hey, don't worry about it, or I'm sorry too, or it's okay.

I'm like, what are we fucking doing here? You know how big it was for me to come to you? Because their response is, well, yeah, it was a little out of hand. Like, I didn't really like the way that you did that. I was like, I'm like, I know that's why I'm here. Well, listen, that's what I said. Why are we? And you should know,

there's a gun in my car. So I didn't have to say I was sorry. Why are we doing this all over again? Wait a second. Do you still have more knits to pick with the shit that I did? I'm apologizing. I do feel like the takeaway lesson when I was too confrontational with that person

who borrowed your time and then came back- How come you're so hesitant to say her name? I don't know, because she didn't ask to be part of this. So I went, so I said, Michelle Obama. I said, I'm really sorry that I did this to you. I know you need a sword for your food pyramid. Yeah. But when I apologized, because I did feel bad and sick about it for a day.

And then the apology was like, I'm not looking forward to this, but it's the right thing to do, so I got to do it. And I apologized. And she was like, I appreciate that. And I understand. And we can work out a better workflow. I was just excited.

And he said, yes, but I do really appreciate the apology. And then I thought, here I go, failing the psychopath test again. I was like, this means she's not allowed to be mad at me anymore because she accepted the apology. And so now I don't have to feel bad. That's great. I'm nice again.

Man, I didn't know all this took place by the way. You didn't? No, I think I was shielded from all of this. I just did a thing. They asked me to do it. They're like, you kind of look like him and your last name is the same. Will you do it? And I was like, okay.

And then didn't realize that it was interfering with other things probably at the time. I just had said like, sure, yeah, whatever the company needs. I'm a company man. And didn't realize at the time that this had been such a big deal. But you know what?

Here's the thing, man, it's not a big deal. It isn't. Let's see. I frequently have like, you know, when you have children, not only do you snap at them, you're just like you're you get to these points where like you're at the end of whatever your patience level is, it's finite and like anybody else does something, your instinct is to be like finally something I can actually be mad at. So you end up snapping at your significant other a lot.

And so like whenever Colleen and I are like dealing with the kids on a three-day weekend, that's coming up and things that you're trying to drag them over the finish line to get them to bed. And the other person does something. And maybe even they're snapping at you. My instinct is just snap back immediately. Be like, hey, no, no, no. And like get mad. And then walking that back, I don't know why, but like I sit there with it because I'm like, I shouldn't have done that. But I really don't want to say I'm sorry.

Why don't I want to say I'm sorry? And then eventually I will just drag myself over and do it and be like, I don't, I'll tell you you, I am sorry, I've been thinking about this. But also I really am sorry that I didn't wanna say I'm sorry. Like apologizing for more things. And it always disarms somebody, they're always like, okay, thank you, I appreciate that. Or they say- It's really like a magic trick.

It's like a spell. They're not allowed to be upset anymore. In traffic it works all the time? And if they are upset, then they're crazy. How about that for a twist? If somebody in traffic. It works. And if they are upset, then they're crazy. How about that? If somebody in traffic cuts me off, I'm like, I need to see their face so badly. Like I need to just see who this human is and I will get up close. And if the person does like a little wave, like I didn't mean to do that. I'm so sorry. I'm like, I bet that we could be friends. This person I hated until this moment. I now really like because they acknowledged they fucked up.

And I really liked that. And I'm still like, it's the best thing you can do. It's the biggest thing you can do to acknowledge you fucked up. And still I'm like, I'm not doing it. Those words specifically, cause my wonderful, brilliant, beautiful wife doesn't make a ton of mistakes.

And when she does, she's not the first to acknowledge it. But one time when she screwed something up that was big-ish, we were doing the math to see where this blame was supposed to go and she paused and she just goes I Fucked up. I'm really sorry and immediately I was like well, I don't want you to feel but nobody fuck you didn't know you're perfect You didn't fuck up. You never fucked up anything But like just how disarming those words were and how it does work on me like a magic spell where we're just like Man, she feels really bad about this thing that she definitely 100,000% fucked up.

I don't want her to feel bad about that. I want her to go back to being happy and let's have fun. Oh, it's so great. It's so great to get an apology. Daniel, we're running out of time, but I want it in this vein. Yeah. There's a story I want to tell you.

I texted you before this podcast yesterday. Do you want to read that text? Do you have it? I don't have it and my computer might die, but like, speed through it. The text was, I'm gonna just read it. The text was, got another fight at the gym. This one got taken all the way to the manager.

Probably not worth discussing on the podcast. I'm very healthy. That's right. So, in the same vein, I mean, at this point, I've been in enough altercations at the gym that there's clearly something going on with me. Gotta do something about that, man. Can't keep getting in fights at the gym.

And none of these, to be fair, we should all qualify what the word fight means in the circumstance. There are altercations. It's not like nobody's pushing each other or touching each other. Sure. But this one did get loud. The guy was yelling at me. It was a situation, I can go into it if you want, but like it was a situation where he eventually went over and got the manager. And this manager, I love this guy. Like he's, he cares about gym rules so much.

And like on the hour, every hour, he does this seven minute spiel about like putting weights back. This is the culture here. Like everybody follow it. This guy who felt wronged went and told the manager on me, brought the manager over and the manager was like, what's going on? And I told him the situation and the manager turned to this guy and was like, he's right. I got basically the official, like the ref to be like, no, I'm on his side.

And the guy was like, well, all right. I didn't know that and didn't apologize or anything. And then his grievance changed too, but he was disrespectful. And I was like, then I was really taking umbrage with that because I was like, you're calling me a motherfucker and stuff, that's rough, man. And I didn't say anything. I was just like, okay, well, whatever my involvement was

in this, I'm sorry, which is not a real apology. That's like a half fucking like, no, but that's like, that would not have diffused the situation. That's it, that's me saying like, I'm sorry, you're so angry about this. But I could, it's just like this piece of me. I couldn't just be like, hey, I probably messed up here too.

I'm sorry. Even that, it's not like a real apology. But I couldn't do it. But I was like, hey, for whatever my involvement was in this, I'm sorry. It sounds, again, like I wasn't officially wrong. I mean, we checked with the manager and everything like that, but you're still upset. See, he said there was some confusion

and he says he's sorry. And the other guy was like too heated, like couldn't get close, like couldn't look at me. Cause he was like, I'm gonna swing on this guy. Yeah. Now let me give you the context of how it happens because this is, I think you will agree Daniel, I'm not the problem here. I'm waiting for a piece of equipment.

I'm waiting for a machine. There's another guy who's working out on a machine next to it. And as I'm waiting, I'm waiting for this couple and they're working out, it's taken a while. And then this guy next to them, right near when they're done, he's like, how many more do you have? And they're like of working out, it's taken a while. And then this guy next to them, after like right near when they're done, he's like, how many more do you have? And they're like, one more. And I was like, oh, oh, he wants to use this, but I'm clearly like waiting right here.

So I'm like, hey, I'm actually waiting for that machine. He's like, did you ask them? And I was like, no, but I don't have to. I'm waiting for the machine. I'm clearly waiting for it. And he's like, no, he didn't ask them. And I'm like, no, this isn't a situation where it's like I got next, but if you wanna work in with me, you can. And he's like, no, he didn't ask them. And I'm like, no, this isn't a situation where it's like, I got next.

But if you want to work in with me, you can. And he's like, I don't want to work in with you. That's my machine. I was like, look, you're on another piece of equipment right now. You're already working out somewhere else. I'm clearly waiting for this one. That's how the situation works here.

This isn't I got next. I will use this machine. If you want to, you can work in with me." And then he started getting very upset. And he said, I don't want it. You can have it. And I said, great. And I put my headphones in and started loading up weights as he was like, had a lot more to say. And I wasn't listening to him. And he did not like that. Because at that point I was just ignoring him. And then that's when he started swearing at me and started getting loud enough that other people in the gym started to notice this situation.

That's so embarrassing. And so then I'm just like, I'm like, let's just crank this out. Let's just get to this workout quickly. And then I'm working out and then he's like, he's like all but tapping me on the shoulder, like getting really close to me and like being like, don't disrespect me motherfucker.

Like that kind of stuff. And I was like, oh boy. In real life. In real life. Don't disrespect me motherfucker, like that kind of stuff. And I was like, oh boy. In real life. In real life, don't disrespect me motherfucker. I'm like, what do you think is going on here? And so that was the disrespect was that I, as soon as he said, I don't want it, you have it. I disengaged and he didn't care for that.

Headphones turn your back. So he went and told on me. The manager came over and he's like, but he was just like, he was just standing over here, just like waiting. And the manager was like, yeah, that's what you do. And he didn't like that. I was very, very upset. After that, there was a clear delineation in the gym. There were like people who were looking at me who were like, sorry that happened man. Like it was like a shrug, like what are you gonna do?

And then other people who were mad. People who were mad at me. They didn't know the circumstance but they'd already made up their mind who they liked and who they didn't like in this fight. And let me, look, I look like fucking Joffrey. I am a face that you don't wanna be on the side of. Like I look like a bad guy.

I look at the eighties bad guy. So like you look at two people who are having an argument and you see me, you're like, surely that's the fucking guy, right? Surely that's the guy that's at fault. So as soon as they saw a fight was happening, they're like, I don't, I'm marking that guy in my brain. I don't like him.

And I was like, ah. He wants the machine. Doesn't he have enough already? So it ended up being very strange at the end. I went into the manager later and I was like, hey, I'm sorry that got taken to you. The problem came to you. He's like, so am I. And I was like, whatever I can do to help squash this, I'm happy to do. Because now I'm like, I don't want this to fuck up everything every time I go to the gym. And he was like, I think you did enough.

You did everything you should. He's like, it's just hard because we've got a lot of new people here. They remodeled the gym. He's like, we got in a lot of new people and they don't know the rules. And I was like, that's exactly what I want to hear when I say an apology.

When I say sorry, I want them to say, hey, I appreciate that. It's okay. We're all good. And if I don't get that, I'm mad all over again. Yeah. Well, I think mad all over again. Yeah. Well, I think you got to stop getting in fights at the gym. I can't.

No matter what, you got to just stop doing that. I think you're going to lose your half of the gym if you get in even one more fight. Even if you're right, I think people are going to be like, well, it gets in too many fights. I think, yeah, that's, that's, there's clearly a tipping point where like, if it happens enough, it's having enough on this podcast. You've turned on me. You don't like it.

Like I've heard too many of these stories and I, I'm on your side by the way. I've heard too much. I've had too many of these stories, too many moments where like, somebody is doing something rude and shitty, and I'm like, you can't do that. And then it becomes a fight. If I just didn't acknowledge that, if I was just like, well, I didn't like that they're doing something rude

and shitty, I should just go over there and do my own thing. I don't know why, but there's something in me now that's like, if you don't say something, they're gonna keep doing that thing. And that's worse. So I can't. You're also, I think you're getting, even at our age,

I think you are getting bigger and stronger. Yeah. And that makes people angrier at you. And I know that our friend Adam went through this a lot because he was a big guy and my neighbor in college who was like a tall and broad giant of a person. People were always picking fights with him. He is the gentlest guy in the world,

but people wanted to accidentally bump into him. People wanted to get in a little altercation with him in line. And I asked him about it. I was like, Mike, what the fuck is going on? What is it? Is it because you have red hair? What's going on? He's like, I'm getting a little altercation with him in line. And I asked him about it. I was like, Mike, what the fuck is going on? What is it? Is it because you have red hair? What's going on? You're just like, I'm just big.

People just don't, people- They don't like you. They wanna feel good by knocking me down or intimidating me or something like that. I don't know. I don't know how to make it stop. How kind of him to be like, I'll let it happen though. Yes, always.

That's a superhero move. I don't have that in me. I'm too small for that on the inside. I'm too small on the inside. I can't do it. I'm like, no, you shouldn't be doing this. Yeah. I want you to stop, please. I wish we had more time on the podcast. So I wasn't ending on a note that made it seem like Soren is the good guy here. Your body, your body has made you a target. Oh, I see. That's why this is happening. Yeah, I mean, it's not, you're not totally wrong.

I know, but I don't wanna be saying it and my computer's gonna die. So I guess that's gotta wrap it up. Are you saying I'm asking for it? That's fine. Yeah. That's fine. All right, thanks for listening everybody. Obviously me, Rex, Gabe Harder, goodbye.

Bye. I've got a quick, quick question for you, all right. I want to hear your thoughts, want to know what's on your mind. I've got a quick, quick question for you, all right. The answer's not important, I'm just glad that we could talk tonight So what's your favourite? Who did you get?

Who will I be? Remember? Words without a word, and all the goings on Oh forget it Saw a movie, Daniel O'Brien Two best friends and comedy writers If there's an answer, they're gonna find it I think you'll have a great time here

I think you'll have a great time here