Radiolab - Mapping Tic Tac Toe-dom

Episode Date: September 6, 2011

Writer Ian Frazier made a startling discovery several years ago in eastern Siberia: no one he met there had ever heard of tic tac toe. In this short, Jad and Robert wonder how a game that seems carved into childhood DNA could be completely unknown in some parts of the world.

Wait, you're listening. Okay. All right. All right. You're listening to Radio Lab. Radio Lab. Shorts! From.

W. N. Y. C. See? Yes. And NPR. Are we ready? I think we are. Maybe.

You have to get in closer. Oh, okay. All right. We should do the thing. I'm Jedd-B-B-M-R. I'm Robert Krollwick. This is Radio Lab. The podcast.

Can you just tell us you are in the week? Oh. Well, I don't believe I'm going to reveal that. And we're going to start today's podcast with this international man of mystery. Who are you really? No, I'm Ian Frazier. Ian is a writer for the New Yorker magazine, and he's written a bunch of wonderful books. Travels in Siberia and other books of non-fiction and humor.

And we had Ian come to visit us because we were working together on a show about games, which we just aired. And in that show, we ended up talking about baseball, football, basketball, checkers, chess. The instance, there was a game that we totally ignored. Tick Tacktoe. Tick Tick Tick Ttoe. Tick Tick Tick. Yeah, Tick Tick Tow. All right.

So what's the deal with you and Tick Tack Toe? I mean, you learned it at age five, I'm assuming, like everybody? Exactly like everybody else. Of course. But, I mean, as you get older, it's one of the first sort of levels of sophistication that you reach is that you know how to get a draw in every Tick Tick Tick Ttoe game. and you learn that at about age maybe six, I would say. And after that, it's just formality. It's sort of a developmental milestone, gaming-wise.

It is. But when you realize... You're allowed to be sophisticatedly bored with the game. Right. And you go, oh, yes, I'm very good at that. So you reach the mature age of six and achieved a certain amount of Tic-Tecto sophistication. I would say I was a grandmaster. Yeah. But the problem is, when you get to that grandmaster point, everybody else is a grandmaster, too. and so everything is a draw, and the game basically dies.

Right. And so, like the rest of us, Ian stopped playing Tick Tacto. But then, when he was well into his middle life, you might say. Oh, this would have been in, this would have been about 10 years ago. He ran into something that made him think, well, maybe Tick Taktow can still do something for me. Right, right. What happened? Well, I went to Russia, and I traveled all over, and I was,

in Chakotka, which is the part of the Russian Far East, opposite Alaska. It's not a great distance, but it's an enormous distance in terms of culture. And at that time, my Russian language was very weak, and I was staying with this, a young couple who had a six-year-old son named Igor. And because of the level of my language, I got along very well with preschool children and elementary school teachers. Hello, I am a student. Right. And that didn't seem like ridiculous to a six-year-old. It seemed great. And he actually could speak some English. He had like about eight or ten words. And the first thing eager said to me was, how do you do? And he was just incredibly cute and a nice kid. And his shirts, you know, Russian kids' shirts are buttoned up with a neck like that. And he was very

very serious and, and so we were just hanging out, and I was able to talk to him. And then, on a whim, really, he said... I said, well, let's play Tick-Tac Toe. How did you get that idea? Yeah. Because it was just something to do with a kid. I don't even remember how we got that idea, but we were just sitting around, and I explained the game to him, and he had never heard of it.

Really? So you drew the classic shape of the Tick-Tac T-T-T-T-R thing to this boy, and he stares it and says, so what's this? Like some kind of cross or whatever? He didn't know what it was. He had no idea what it was. Wow. And I just showed him by drawing how you do this, X's and O's, and he picked it up.

I mean, he understood what it was. And then we started playing. And he very quickly got the principal. But I, to be honest, was clobbering him. Was there a certain kind of joy? Just like, uh-uh. That's not where the O goes. And then there's three Xs, foul.

You're out of here. And he would be quite crushed. You're like, oh, no, I lost him. But it's really fun to play take that toe with someone who doesn't know how. Because you're just walking all over him and just putting X's and those. Is this fair? I mean, is this something a mature? Okay, okay, technically, it was not fair.

I think. Well, define the word clobbering. Are you talking like dozens of games? Game after game. And it didn't take very many moves for me to win. So I stayed with them before we made this trip into the. the tundra. And we went out into the tundra. We were there for a week or 10 days or something. And then I came back and stayed with them again. I do not believe he had been playing tic-tac-toe in my absence,

but somehow he had gotten better. And so we had very, very ordinary and frustrating games for my point of view as we came back. I didn't win as readily at all. I didn't lose. Well, but... Did you feel a slight urge to go to the nearby school? Fine new father? Siberian Tic-Tac-Tow hustler. That's what I'm saying. In elementary schools, of course,

was how I, you know, paid for several years. I paid for my New York City apartment. But I later checked, and listeners may contradict me, But as far as I know, this game is unknown in Russia. And I've asked Russian friends. Unknown completely? Unknown completely. Six years old.

And up? And up. I would say. In eastern Russia? In deep Siberia? Well, I was in deep Siberia. But in the cities, I have not met anybody who knows this game. Moscow?

Not Moscow? Not Moscow? I've asked people. I didn't go around these cities and say, do you know, shick-tag-toe? I mean, what if it didn't get to? Minsk. So finish that sentence? How wide is the shadow of non-tick-tac-todom?

We established that it's in eastern Russia. Maybe you could go to Japan and they wouldn't know how to play it. I mean, you don't know. Well, it would be interesting just to find out where tic-tac-toe is elsewhere. And where it isn't. Yeah. Not that I'm going to do it myself. No, no, no.

This could be one of these crowdsourcing opportunities. Why is that? Well, we could ask people to help map it for us. Because, like, what if there are whole corners of the globe that are virginal territory? So you could go to playgrounds and you could, like, walk in and say, hey, kid. Swish them. Come here. So, we decided to test this proposition.

After we talked to Ian, we put a call on our Facebook page asking for people to help us make a map. And we got responses. Hello, I am coming to you from Guangzhou, South Korea. Actually, lots. In the north of Iran, you're the Caspian Sea. The Uttar, Croatia. Poznan, Poland. Istanbul, Turkey.

Quashch, New Zealand. In Philippines. I'm here in Seattle, Washington. Costa Rica. The Netherlands. Argentina. Caribbean, Namibos. Dublin, Ireland.

The outskirts of Ous, Denmark. It's a typically hot day here in Dubai. Instructions are pretty simple. Grab a cell phone, whatever you got that can record. Go out. Now, let's get on with our business. Take a survey. So, I think we found our first victim.

Here we have two nice people. Welcome by in the... Hello, monsieur. Hi, Japan's full movie. Hello, sir. Have you heard of... Excuse me, de post. A question, tic-tac-toe.

A game called Tic-Tac-To. Tic-Tac-To. Who here has ever heard of the game? Tick-Tac-Tac-T-T-T. So, here are the results, which may surprise you. We'll go country by country. Everybody interviewed a lot of people, so what you will hear is representative.

We'll start with Japan. You know, Tic-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T. You know. Tic-Tac-Tto. No this game? No? No? No.

No? Argentina, no. She doesn't know? No. Ireland, no. Do you know what it is, sir? No. No one knows how to play Tic Tic Tic Toc.

N. Mnibia. Yes, sir. No. No. Switzerland, no. Tick Tic Tartor? Turkey. No.

Croatia. No. New Zealand. Tic Ticto. Is it a dance? Um. No, it's a game. Have you...

So you've never played Tic Tic Tto? No. And... You're on? The answer is... No. So, amazingly, it seemed like huge chunks of the globe do not know Tic Tac Toc.

So a Tic Tic Toc T'Hustler could clean up... Or forget hustling. Maybe you just want to believe there are still some blank spots left on the globe. Well, here you are! Yes! But, just to be safe, we asked everybody to go out, not just with their cell phones, but with a pen and a paper, so that when someone says no, they could draw them the grid, just to be certain.

Let me show you. We have X's and we have O's. It's like this, this, or this? So if I am X, and then it's your turn? You try to stop me. And you have to get three in a row. And this is when the answers changed. So I say O, so X.

Then X. Then X. My about again. Yeah. Oh, you know that. Okay. Once people saw the grid with the X's and O's, they were like, oh, yeah, we know that game. Of course.

We just don't call it Tic-Dak-O. The game has a different name in Turkish. Yes. In Turkish, it's called. X-O-X in Serbia. X-O-X. X-OX. How's the name in Peru?

Miki. Peru, it's Mici. And in South Korea. What do you call it? Omo, Omo. Omo. And in England Nots and crosses

Nots and crosses Which is also what they call it in Ireland And we call it Nots and crosses New Zealand. Now in Switzerland Mourg Pion, it's known in the French language That is what they call it in Polish It's Cucco X Chezschejet Does everybody in Poland know how to play this?

Yeah And to round things out in Argentina They call it In the Netherlands Both Elkheim, Iran No Croat Croatia Costa Rica.

Gato. Gato. Let's take a little break and look at our notes, see where we stand so far. Jen, I'm beginning to get this feeling. Seven people interviewed seven knew it. That our dreams of glory. They all know what Tick Tic Ttoe is. That we were going to, you know, we were going to be the gingus cons of Tic Tic Toctoe.

It just may not be supported by the data. No. No. But we got Russia, right? Well, um... Hi, Ian Frasier? Hi, this is Soren. I work with Robert.

I don't know if we have Russia, actually. Uh, because as we were conducting our international Tic Tecto survey, I got a note from Ian. It was a, it looked like an uh-oh note, so I called him up, and he told me that shortly after we talked to him that first time... It was maybe even the same day. He was at a party, and there were some Russians. And I just thought, okay, let me just make sure about this.

And I asked, and they said, yes, of course, there's Tick-T-T-T-T-T-T-E. Tecto. And I said, wow, everybody told me to do it. And they said, yeah, sure, everybody knows it. A friend even told me the name of it. It's Kreski-Nolski, which is like crosses in zero. And he said, yeah, it's well-known. And the entire thing fell to the ground at that point. My dream of Tick-Tek-Ttoe conquest. So, sorry. I'm sorry. I base this on insufficient data. and it's completely wrong. It's not completely wrong because I did encounter, you know, some people who didn't know, and this one kid who I really, I can promise you, I just beat the pants off of in Tick Takedo.

He had no idea. But that was the limit of my conquest. Ian Frazier is the author of Travels in Siberia and a whole bunch of wonderful books. For more information, go to our website, RadioLab.org. Oh, and before we go, thank you, thank you to our international Tic Tacito surveyors. Alberto Arias. Sirajah Amini. Chris Rih.

Krista Vazquez. Krista Hans. Tark Yassin. My name is Mara. Chelsea Unru. Pari Kahul. This is Mara. This is Marian.

And this is Loddorf. Spanky. Nick Lassenbury. My name is Jimena. Dad Bezum. My name is Atulukcia. Mr. Gimmo. And my name is Pedro Amrafay.

I'm Chad Abumrod. And I'm Robert Crulwich. Thanks for listening. Let's show the name of Tick-Tat. Message 18. Hi, this is Chris Wilkinson, Radio Lab listener from South Bend, Indiana. Calling with the credits.

Radio Lab is supported in part by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. More information about Sloan at www.sloan.org. Thanks. Have a good day.