Radiolab - Seneca, Nebraska

Episode Date: October 12, 2016

Back in 2014 the town of Seneca, Nebraska was deeply divided. How divided? They were so fed up with each other that some citizens began circulating a petition that proposed a radical solution. If a majority wanted to they'd self-destruct, end the town and wipe their community off the map.  Support Radiolab by becoming a member today at Radiolab.org/donate.    

Wait, you're listening. Okay. All right. All right. You're listening to Radio Lab. Radio Lab. From W. N. Y. C.

See? Yeah. Here we go. Okay. Hi, I'm Robert Crilwich. This is Radio Lab. And today with me is Simon Adler. That's me.

He's a reporter and producer here. And he's got us a tale. I do. It's an American tale. And a kind of timely one, I think. How would you describe it? I think it's one of those. classic us versus them tales.

Well, actually, maybe it's an us versus us story in its way. Yeah, okay, yeah, actually, I like that more because, in fact, it takes place right in America's heartland. Where in the heartland? Nebraska. Seneca, Nebraska, this tiny little town in central west, Nebraska. Okay. It's near the town of Mullen, Nebraska, which you obviously also don't know.

Yeah, that doesn't help me at all. So this is Matthew Hanson. He is a reporter with the Omaha World Herald. And a couple months back, he got in touch with us because he had a story about this town. Right. So I got an email from a woman who lives a couple miles outside of town. She was really upset. Because back in 2014, the town was split in half.

And in fact, there was a group of people in the town who were circulating a petition. A petition that would end the town. We circulate a petition to end the town. Yeah. They didn't want to be a town anymore? Right. Really? Yeah.

You know, by law, if you have enough signatures on a petition, you can get things on the ballot. And the question that ended up on the ballot was, should Seneca cease to exist? And this split that led a group of people to try to end their own town, it got us thinking about the split that seems to be this election right now. And it occurred to us that maybe, just maybe, this tiny little town in the middle of Nebraska might have something to say about the rest of us. Well, and let's back up then. Sure. So when did all was well in Seneca until what?

It started with the horses. The horses. Okay, what are these horses? There were six horses. Actually, let me step back. There were a lot of horses in Seneca. Most people in Seneca ride horses. Many own them.

But there were these six particular horses. right in the middle of town. And, you know, the split sort of started right there. So I got so curious about what went down in Seneca that I flew to Denver. One, two, three, four, five. Drove five and a half hours into the sandhills of West Central Nebraska.

Let's see if we can get anything on the radio here. These rolling sand dunes covered in grass that they ranch catalog. Here's another ranch. What's this one say? And smack dab in the middle of the sand dunes. hills is Seneca. After many hours and many miles, we are here.

Okay, so we got these rolling hills that are green dotted with these yellow flowers. Junction 86A. Seneca. Okay, we've got kind of an old bigger red sign that says welcome Seneca with a big red line. Okay. When you get there, it looks like starting to drive through town. A picture postcard small town from Gesteryear. Bound by railroad tracks.

To our right, we've got the railroad. I'm taking the left. I mean, really pretty. To my right, an abandoned house. To my left. Another boarded up house. Another street with absolutely nothing on it. An old gas station.

It's all boarded up. Another rundown house that says no trespassing. And just really tiny. I think one into the other is one-eighth of a mile. And we're done. So there you go. At 30 miles per hour, it takes 10 seconds. Okay, turning around

And wow Okay, the house to the left here Has a giant board over one of the windows And spray painted on it is Sandy H is a big fat liar Interesting And so I ended up just walking through this tiny town of Seneca You're like knocking on every door kind of thing?

I think I may have knocked on every single door on the town Oh man Yeah, and of course I ended up talking to some folks who wanted to end the town Others who wanted to save it And? And first up Judith Brown She told her notes to me were come down hill first house is nice. That's not me.

Burnt up yard. I don't know if this is it. How are you this morning? Well, now that it's morning and now you're here in New York City and how do you do? Very good to meet you. Everyone told me I can't let you into my house, but I don't have any other way to cope with it. I'm not worried about it. And you want to plug in, huh? No, I'm good. I am all set here. Oh, good. Tell me who else you're going to talk to. Larry Isam.

Okay, who else? And Jackie Severe. Okay. I'm the sanest person you're going to talk to today. Just so you know that's what I think. It's a terrible thing to say. I'm sorry about the cigarettes. I want to get into more contemporary things, but real quickly to set the stage.

When did Seneca pop up on the map? Well, all I know is when I was a little kid, it was a booming town. Well, I mean, they had great dances and wonderful bands and beer, and there was no place else to go. I mean, Seneca used to be really, really fun. But, okay, so let me tell you this story. Some people had come and they bought a house in Seneca. Okay, this would have been fine except they have all these animals.

Nobody knows these people. And there is a big fuss about them. And they're abuse of these animals. They're sure these animals are being abused. See, I was under the impression that this was all about horses in a front yard. Is that true? They had horses. They had six horses in their backyard.

That's the yard. So we're talking like six horses. horses in the size of a one-car garage. Exactly. Do you remember the first time you saw the horses here? Saw them or smelled them. Yeah, both at the same time. Larry Isam.

Former member of the town board. I mean, it's pretty hard to miss when you drive down the street when there's six blocks to the town. You know, it's easy to hear about things. You'll be on the list also tomorrow. Will I? Am I going to be in the new... Probably I'll have... I have five phone calls on my phone at home by the time I get there.

And how did you decide that you were going to take this up as a cause as a member of the town board? Because of the complaints that were called to my house. What are you going to do about the horses? They're up to their knees in excrement. What are you going to do about it? And so you wrote an ordinance? Yeah. And what did the ordinance say?

I don't remember. It was two pages. But in any case, it stipulated. a certain amount of square footage per horse as well as shelter. Well, that was part of it. The thing about Seneca is there's always a war in Seneca. Again, Judith Brown. Okay, six horses in the front yard were the most concrete thing.

But Larry Isam and the bats you're going to go see. They have always wanted us to look more like a cute little Colorado tourist town. Wait, are we talking like beautification? Yes. Yes. They wanted to create rules, to create growth. And I think they wanted to keep us lower class people in line. And so they were out here telling us what to do.

And, oh, they'll tell you things about me. Judith, she did the 60s in New York. You've lived in a commune for a time and burned her brain down. To save Seneca 3. Larry Isam again. No, go. Nancy Isam, his wife. And here, Jackie Severe. So we don't want to defend.

We don't want to bicker. We don't want to open that up. The ordinances were necessary because of the situation that we were presented with. There was no elitism. They weren't on that board to dictate to anybody in this town. They needed covenants for the horses. That's where you see. started, and then you had people that was trying to say, you're not going to tell me.

And if you look around the little town, you'll see the ones that take pride in what they have. I'm sorry. And we're getting back to the debate. So the town was split in two. I mean, we could have liked each other, but we've had nothing but constant, constant, fighting. Hello. Hi.

Okay, she won't hurt you. What's the dog's name? Presley. Presley. I'm Simon. Millie. Come on in. Also wanted to save the town.

Asked her last name not be used. Boy, this is exciting. I mean, I've heard so much about you. I have to ask. Where did you hear about me from? Who? Oh, Lord, this is small town. I mean, it's just all over.

The telephones are ringing with my name? Yeah, pretty much. Okay. Okay. I got to be nice, right? You're recording all this? I'm recording. You don't have to be nice, though.

You can be honest. Oh, I'll be honest. I have no use for those people. I didn't want them to take our town. How long have you lived in Seneca? Oh, gosh, about 36, 37 years now. And how many people live here these days? Right in town, maybe, I don't know, if even 20 do.

Yeah. And we get talked about a lot. I mean, we can talk, put down a lot. Like, what are you, excuse me, just a minute. Hi, honey, I can't talk now. Listen, Simon's here. Do you have anything you want me to ask him? Okay, bye-bye.

She and I've been playing phone tag all day long. Okay, so you were saying that people are making fun of Seneca? Well, they do. They make fun of Seneca quite a bit outside, you know, and like, oh, Seneca doesn't have anything. What are you still doing here? And it's not like it used to be. I mean, years and years ago, this used to be the neatest little town you'd ever want to live in. And then it just, I don't know, it just went downhill.

That's how much dying. I mean, that's the only way you can say it. Sandy Hansen wanted to save the town, unofficial town historian. This started back in 73, I believe it was, when it stopped being a division point. so the trains no longer stopped here. So that did away with the three hotels, the 24-hour cafe. The man that had a filling station pulled out in front of a semi at Mullen.

That ended that business. His brother had the shoe shop, and he died of a heart attack, setting there working on his shoes. The lady that had the variety store tripped on a kitten and broke her hip. That closed that. And...

Have we just wait until the train goes by? No. Anyhow, Seneca really started dying. Presley, get away from that. Okay, well, so I guess I'm here because I'm trying to talk to as many people as I can to understand what happened with the whole vote to unincorporate. Again, savor Millie. It started out that there was six horses.

They were up in mud up to their probably belly. and I think one of them had to be put down because it was kicked. This is how close they were together. Anyway, I mean, I'm an animal lover. I wanted something done about it. Several of us did. So we had a meeting. The board tried to tell them that's not sanitary.

Nancy Isam and the rest of the saved Seneca 3. We did discuss it. You know, we're going to get the horses gone. That's the purpose of the ordinance. But it was not just that. Judith Brown and her. They wanted to get rid of all the horses, all the cattle, all the chickens. That is ridiculous.

Have your chickens. But do you flaunt your chickens? Do they run around town? People were so afraid that their animals were going to be taken away from them. And then, eventually... The board members forbid people to have animals. That was the jest of it. And so more and more and more, the town got split.

There's a group of people here and a group of people here. Nobody gets along. Nobody on the town board would speak to anybody, which, of course, then that just meant I just yell at them louder. There's certain people that I just give a hand gesture. A one-fingered hand gesture? Pretty much, yeah. People said things like,

my dog doesn't want to be friends with your dog. It was awful. Are you Terry by chance? Yeah. Can I have 20 minutes for your time to talk? Terry Hartman, who wanted to end the town. Yeah, this just got ugly. They started taking pictures.

people's places and put it on Facebook and say how they didn't clean up their property and just public shaming people. This was the safe Seneca people that were posting this stuff? Supposedly. You know, there were aggressive comments. We did have the sheriff come up. Did anyone tell you that? It was just out of control.

I mean, what about a Xanax? You know, I took a lot of them during those years. It was a very unhappy time. And so finally, people started going around with a patient. petition to get the unincorporation on the ballot. We thought we will just unincorporate. Unincorporate. Unincorporate. Unincorporate our village unincorporate. There are agitators in every group. Okay, that's me. That seems kind of like the nuclear option here, right? Like we're just going to

blow the whole thing up. Oh, yes, absolutely. I think that sense of shared community was just slowly dissolving year by year. Again, Matthew Hanson of the Omaha World Herald. And it had probably to do with what was happening in Seneca, but I also believe that I had to do what was happening in the United States. Sort of the idea that winning the argument is more important than the much harder job of coming together and saying, okay, we disagree on this. Let's find a solution to our problem.

I'm having a little trouble figuring out what's about to happen. How close is this? The sense in the town was certainly that this thing was just a dead heat. Really? Split right down the middle. Oh, it's that close? That close. And so when we come back from break, Seneca goes to the voting booth and decides.

This is Kim Eslinger calling from Bismarck, North Dakota. Radio Lab is supported in part by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. More information about Sloan at www.sloan.org. Hello. My name is Simon. I think I sent you a letter a week back. Oh, we're not going to talk. Even for five minutes? Nope. I don't want to. You'll probably talk to the haters, but I'm done.

Let the lying dogs laid. Okay, thank you so much. Bye. Bye. Goodbye. All right, so that was Jacqueline Licking, who is the woman who circulated the petition, and she just refused to talk to me. I'm Robert Crilwich. And I'm Simon Adler. This is Radio Lab, and Simon Adler is with me.

Just before the break, you were saying, Simon, the town was in god-awful trouble. Trouble. Half the town was so upset with the town and the government and the people of the town that they were circulating a petition that would end the town. town itself. I mean, I got where they were upset, but I certainly don't get the idea that the solution is to end this place that has existed since 1888. This again is Matthew Hansen, reporter for the Omaha World Herald. And it bugged me. And why did that bother you? Because I'm from a small town. I could imagine it happening to my town. And I could also empathize with the frustration of the people who wanted to keep it a town.

I mean, you have to meet Sandy Hanson. Will you show me a couple of your favorite artifacts you've got here? Sure. Who operates a museum of Seneca history. I want other people to know just how nice this place is. You cannot go to her museum and not say, wait a second, this place has value. This one I wish could talk.

What, we've got baseball jerseys here with the Asana. This was the Seneca baseball teams. I got the uniforms, even the socks. One pair of pants, don't have the caps. Seneca had a baseball team. Oh, yes, known all over the country. Now, this is the newspaper cutouts, 1860. These are pictures of family that lived here.

These are advertisements of people of the area. We've got a Seneca Centennial hat? Yes. So people just send you stuff. Mm-hmm. So is part of the concern here that the history will be forgotten? Yes, it is. because we have been a town for 120-some years.

So what does it mean to be a town? What does it mean? It means neighbors coming together for the good of each other. When my husband died, he died in Texas. I brought his ashes back. It planned on just having a graveside service out there at the cemetery. Well, the town people wouldn't hear that. They had a big meal prepared.

My yard was mowed. The water was turned on. Everything was ready to go. And it became a full service. What did that feel like? Felt like home. Like the way you're supposed to feel, you know? Warm and wanted.

You see, they're talking about something that used to be. Again, Judith Brown, who wanted to end the town. They wanted to preserve it the way it was. And I agree, it used to be a lot of fun. But that's true of any town up and down this railroad. Well, so if they're trying to preserve it, then what are you trying to do? You're just accepting that we're going downhill here? No, I'm accepting that for I myself, I can't do any better than this for myself as an aging woman.

I've only lived here 20 years, but I'm from here. My mom, my dad, my cousins are all strung all over these hills and this grass, you know? Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is, to me, it's heaven. Like, I don't care about my house falling down. I'm 70 years old and I'm going to finish up my art supplies and die at the respectable age of 96. And I do have enough art supplies that I've been putting up for years. to do that. Was that the nerve

that was being touched? You're bad because you want to live this way? Yes. These people saying we can be proud of our town. We can make it hustle and bustle. So if they're saying that,

then you're saying, no, we can be proud of just the way it is now? Yeah. See. Okay, so how, when did you first hear about the petition going around?

Oh, gosh. Again, Millie from the Save Seneca's side. I think the same day it was going around, I heard about it. And how did you feel in that moment? It was horrible. It really was, it was just, it was more than frustrating. It was just like somebody punches you in the gut. And she lets all the air out.

You know, it's just, it's just sad. Mostly it just seemed like if we could get rid of this unbelievable piece of bureaucracy, then we could just live here. So finally, the unincorporation, it got on the ballot at the regular election where you do the senators and all that. We had a special ballot for Seneca, where we voted for the town, and would it or would it not be unincorporated?

And what did you feel when you were going to that to vote? I don't remember feeling anything except I've got to get in there and vote. If you don't mind just telling me how you voted? Oh, I voted to unincorporate. I voted to keep the town incorporated. I have voted to unincorporate. I voted to keep the town. And then she said, okay, that's the last Seneca ballot.

Shoes on or shoes on? Jackie Severe. Saber. So just because I don't think I've had anybody explain this to me yet, can you explain the night of the election and what actually happened? Well, you know, we have internet access, so we were watching. the election results on the internet to see how it came out. And who was we? There were, I don't remember, four or five of us, six of us, maybe. I'm not sure who all was there.

So were you like refreshing the page over and over again? How did that work? No, we knew about what time they'd be out. You know, we gave them an hour or so, and we logged on and saw it. We saw that the village was unincorporated. It was by one vote. It was 15 to 16. We lost our town.

Sandy Hanson again. What was that moment like? I can't say it on the radio. So what was lost? Well, the day after they decided to abolish the town, the sheriff come down with them. I don't know whether they thought we were going to shoot them off with guns or what. But the sheriff came down.

They took the grater. They took the tractor. That took our snowplow. And we no longer had our streets. maintenance, our lights. Maybe our identity. I don't know. We never had much here, but we didn't ask for much.

I mean, we lost. We lost. Sunny could be taken off of the map, and if it isn't on the map where they can look it up, there ain't more. Nobody even knows it's there. I cried, but I mean, it hurt. Nancy Isam again.

Because I've been here since my third grade year. People are moving away. And Jackie Severe. I myself am ready to go. We're all ready to leave. We don't have anybody. There's been nobody move here since. Nobody.

It sounds like you're saying the future is gone. I wouldn't say it's gone, but I would say it's very, very limited and unlikely. Yes, I have voted to unincorporate. Again, Terry Hartman. But I love this town. And I think the people who voted to unincorporate it are the people who wanted to keep things the way they were. We didn't want to change.

I know everything has to change, but I didn't know what else to stop the fighting. You know, this is my hometown, too. I don't know how to explain it. It just got so ugly and out of hand, and some of the members of the village board were just crazy. But the town board was just three members. Millie. They have to do really what the majority of the town wants to do. otherwise we can get rid of them.

So you believe in the democracy of Seneca? I believe in democracy. Does that make me an idiot? I mean, I live in hope, you know? It just, it really felt like Seneca had lost something essential when we're talking about basic American democracy. Again, Matthew Hansen,

the Omaha World Herald. And it worried me to see that in part because I could feel that and still feel that happening on a national level. The kind of just complete lack of conversation around shared values or compromise. I've got to smoke more and drink more. And one last time. Okay. Judith Brown. So, Can I tell you what I hear here? Maybe the strongest argument for keeping Seneca a town on the books is that then there was some sort of framework to force those two communities within the town to be together and to think together. And with that now gone, there is now no communication, no compromise. It wasn't before.

So none of those people had anything to do with us before, except to continually criticize how we were. So we couldn't compromise with these people. They were not rational. All rationality was gone by then. And what's going to happen with this next election? But America is full of diverse opinions, and it has managed to work.

And I guess if we take what happened here, and if we apply that model to the rest of the United States, like, if not a town, then what? We have the county, we have the state, and the little town, without those hateful people in it, is really quite lovely. But it's not a town anymore. I don't know why you think that.

Officially, right? But it is a town. Here we are. I'm going to live here until I die, and so is Rose. in Harry until some woman lands him. So you would say that even though on the book, Seneca no longer exists. Seneca still exists.

And we're still two tribes. Two tribes of turkeys, that's how I usually put it. That'll never get along. This story was produced and reported by Simon Adler. Special thanks to Ryan Scott on slide guitar, Michael Shob on trumpet, Chase Culp on Engineering Help.

Special thanks also to... to Matthew Hansen, a reporter at... The Omaha World Herald. Okay, we'll be back next time. To go to the next message, press six. Message three. Hi, this is Matthew Hanson from the Omaha World Herald. Radio Lab is produced by Jad Abenrod.

Dylan Keefe is our director of sound design, Thorne Wheeler, is senior editor. Jamie Yorker is our senior producer. Our staff includes Simon Adler, Brenna Farrell, David Gebel, Matt Kielty, Robert Curlwich, Annie McEwen, Lateef Nassar, Melissa O'Donnell, Arian Wack, and Molly Webster, with help from Nygar Fattali, Phoebe Wang, Katie Ferguson, Alexander Lee Young, W. Harry Fortuna, and Perci of Berlin.

Our fact checkers are Eva Dasher and Michelle Harris. End of message.