Radiolab - The Golden Rule

Episode Date: April 28, 2023

At first glance, Golden Balls was just like all the other game shows — quick-witted host, flashy set, suspenseful music. But underneath all that, each episode asked a very serious question: can you ever really trust another person? Executive producer Andy Rowe explains how the show used a whole lot of money and a simple set of rules to force us to face the fact that being good might not end well. The result was a show that could shake your faith in humanity — until one mild-mannered fellow unveiled a very unusual strategy, and suddenly, it was a whole new ball game. With help from Nick Corrigan and Ibrahim Hussein, we take a closer look at one of the strangest moments in game show history. Our newsletter comes out every Wednesday. It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing [e-mail] Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Hey, this is Radio Lab, I'm Lottip Nasser. I'm just gonna start with a quick announcement. Our senior producer and correspondent Simon Adler is doing a live show at the one and only hot docs festival in my hometown of Toronto on May 5th. You probably remember his Mixed Tape series about how the cassette tape changed everything. This is sort of that and is more than that. It's so good from self-help tapes to mixed tapes to a lonely recording made on the flip side of the moon. This show, it's all about the tension

between sort of collective shared experience and the kind of bespoke made for you media bubble that we all kind of inhabit now. The show is called Radio Lab Live, how the cassette tape changed us. Happening once again in Toronto, Hot Doc Cinema, May 5th, I've seen it. It's good. Go go go. I myself may be making a little virtual appearance. Tickets are still available. Let's pivot here from that live show to another live show. We have a rewind for you.

A golden oldie, if you will. Now that I think about it probably also recorded on a cassette tape, it is a story about a maddeningly tense showdown between two people in front of a live audience, but it's actually really a tussle between what's good for each of them individually and what's the greater good.

We originally aired it in 2014 as part of an episode called What's Left When You're Right, weird title I know, but boy, it is this segment ever hold up. So here you go, the golden rule. Yeah, wait, wait, you're listening to radio lab from W and Y. Three, why? Okay. This is Andy Rowe. So I've got here, can you get rack links? It's folding apart. He's a TV producer in London, and in his office, where we reached him,

he's got these very special metal balls. This is the original prototype of a golden ball. It's lovely and shiny, it's very light. Each one's the size of maybe an orange or a dangerine or a tennis ball, painted gold, and makes a very satisfying clunk when it closes. In that clunk, that is the sound of betrayal. Cassandia has used these balls to bring out the worst in people, to show how ugly and conniving we can be, but also, how wonderful.

And if you think you know about all that, then you could win big, un-golden balls! Okay, so we're talking about a game show called, of course, Golden Balls. Andy was one of the executive producers that did pretty well. We were really, really proud of Golden Balls. Ran for three years in the UK. Nearly 300 episodes in quite a short space of time on the show. I thought it was such fun.

And it is fun, because in many ways it is just a normal game show, but... I would argue there is more going on here. In fact, I'm about to argue that, because there is a moment in one of those 300 episodes, one moment, that I just cannot shake? Because you remember the first time I showed you this clip. Certainly, too. I was totally, totally, totally thrown by it.

Because what's about to happen is that two guys with totally different moral philosophies are about to go, yes, with some fascinating results. And this story, in fact, inspired the whole show. It did, but today... Three different Smackdowns all that somehow smack down, not in the way that you would expect. Different people, different dreams, different worldviews. All going...

POW. And we're calling the show. What's left when you're right? Which is... Genius. You'll find that out later. It will ultimately make sense. Perfect sense, I think. Yeah, later.

For now, can we get the Golden Balls happening? Yeah. All I can remember was that... All right, so before we get to the moment that I want to talk about, we kind of have to walk a few paces to sort of lay the foundation Which is it we have to explain the rules of this game, which are You cannot describe goldmills and a sentence to anybody. It makes no sense whatsoever

But I will try and simplify so basically there are all these early rounds where people are winning money losing money cheating each other, lying, strategizing, voting one another off the show. I'm gonna skip all that because it is in the last five minutes. That all hell breaks loose. And it's that classic shout-out at the telly moment where you're sitting at home going, I can't believe what that guy just did. I can't believe you just did that. Because basically the whole game culminates with a face-off. You now face a very straightforward choice.

Two players sit on opposite sides of a table with this host between them. Yeah, Jasper Carrus is now your man. A man whose head is as shiny and smooth as a golden ball itself. Yeah, no, I just edited in someone laughing at my own joke. That just happened. Then again, when you get to this moment at the end of the game, where there's two people facing each other in the spotlight, it's all gone quiet. In that moment, their hearts are racing. Because they've got to make this key choice, which is not just about money, although there is money on the line, of course.

It is a choice that will reveal who they really are. Not who we all are. Okay, what? Humanity's soul will be laid bare. This may be true, but why don't we just just lay out the rules themselves? Sorry, got a little carried away. No, there's some.

All right, so in the final round, each of the contestants get two golden balls. And they are the most important golden balls of the game. One ball says split. You each have a golden ball with the word split written inside. The other ball says steel. You both have a ball with the word steel written inside. Now split, I can say you in our playing, right? Yeah. If I choose the split ball, what I'm really saying is that this jackpot, whatever it is, say it's 3,200 pounds sterling, okay?

Yeah. I'm saying I want to split it with you. Let's just split it in half. 50-50 even Steven, I'm a good guy. Now if you also choose split, then we split it! Yeah! Oh, yeah! That's it!

You get half, I get half, everybody's happy. The feeling of kind of joy that everybody had when it was a split was fantastic. You're both going home with 1,600 pounds each. Okay, so that's one outcome. It's one of four outcomes I believe. Because obviously there are other ways this could go. Because one or both of the contestants can choose steel. And what steel basically says is, forget sharing, I want to take the whole thing for myself. And if we both decide that... If you both choose the steel ball...

We both screw each other and it cancels that. You leave today's game with what you came with. Nothing. Nobody gets anything. Nothing, I like what he says, nothing. Nothing. With a little bit of contempt. Deservedly. Yes. Two gets anything. Nothing. I like who he says nothing. Nothing. With a little bit of contempt.

Deservedly. Yes. Two greedy people deserve nothing. Nothing. Except each other, which is supposed nothing. Exactly. Right, so if we both decide to split, it is mutually good. If we both decide to steal, it is mutually bad.

Yeah. Now where things get thorny, is it say you got a mismatch. Like one person chooses split, the other person chooses steel? Now in that scenario, the person who shows split the nice guy, or gal, gets nothing, whereas the person who chose steel, the conniving, duplicitous bastard, takes everything. So you, if you steal, and the other person is kind, then you walk away with the money. Yeah, I mean, by the way, this is the classic prison or dilemma from Game Theory, which some people may recognize.

But the basic idea is that there is an incentive to share, because if you split, each person takes half, but there is also an incentive to lie, because if I can convince you to share the money, and I turn around and shaft you, well then I get more money that way. And the best part about this game for our purposes is that before the contestants make a choice, Jasper the host gets them to talk to each other about what they're gonna do.

Okay, before I ask you to choose, I think you have some talking to do to each other. Alright, so watch this one. You got a young blonde girl facing off with a larger gentleman with a mustache. Before I ask you to choose, I think you have some talking to do to each other. Alright, so watch this one. You got a young blonde girl facing off with a larger gentleman with a mustache. Older? Yep. And the jackpot is £100,000.

Steven, I just taught me I worked puppy dog tears and they were real tears and you were genuinely going to split that. I am going to split this. That's £50,000. I'm just on its own level. 50,000. You're telling me you can just put it in here. She's crying at this point.

She's kind of adorable. I like her. She's like an innocent. If I stole off you, every single person there would run over you and lynch me. There was no way I could... I mean, everyone who knew me would just be disgusted if I stole... See how he's gripping his legs?

He's up to something. We... I can look you in, Nick. Sarah, I can look you straight in the eye and tell you, I am going split. I swear, don't you. I am going to split. Okay. This is serious, man. Sarah, Steve, choose either the split or the steel ball now. Hold it up. We're going on with 50 grand each. I promise you that. or the steel ball now. Hold it up.

We're going on with 50 grand each. Momentary. He chose split. She chose steel. The nice girl was a thief. The nice girl was bad. Every time I see this, it totally breaks my heart, because a guy just falls onto the desk. He's got his head in his hands. He's just destroyed.

Steven, I'm so sorry. Commiserations, he's lost. Look at her. She's looking away. She can't look at him. He's fallen into a slump on the table. It's just awful. Steve, isn't that?

It's such a good little game. And here's the thing. If you analyze all the outcomes, which social scientists have done, what you see is that a majority of the time, something like what I just showed you happens. People get up there and they're like, I swear, I will never stop. I am a good person. Over and over they say, I'm not the kind of person that's going to cheat you, and then they say, I'm not the kind of person that's going to cheat you and then they do it. They stab them in the back. They're grandma's, policemen, and here's my theory.

It's not that they're mean people. It's that they don't want to be that guy slumped on the table. They don't want to be the sucker. The fear of being the sucker, far overwhelms the desire to do good to their fellow contestants. There's something wrong with this program. The obvious thing to do is to share. You manage to weel your way into the approximate possession of a fortune, and all you have

to do is agree to split it. But what if you don't trust the person across the table from you? Would you still share it? Well, that's interesting. Yeah, let's suppose I happen to be, I'm introduced to a person named Snidely Whiplash, and he has an enormous, oiled mustache, and he's wearing a cape, and he has this habit of rubbing his hands malevolently. And his eyes are twitching.

And his eyes are twitching. So I'm sitting opposite hand, and I'm willing to share with this guy. See, it's in a situation like that. That's when it's a real test. That's when it's a real test. In this game. So what do you do if you don't want to be a sucker and you're not sure you can trust the person across the table?

There's no good answer to that. But then? Hi. Hi, is this Nick? It is. This brings us to the moment in question. We ran into this guy. My name is Nick Corrigan.

I work for Media Academy Cardiff based in Wales. So Nick runs a not-for-profit in Wales, and right away when you talk to him, you notice two things. He loves Wales. It's the most beautiful country in the world. And he loves game shows. Yes. What was your first one?

When I was about 17. He was on a quiz show. And I won game shows. Yes. What was your first one? When I was about 17. He was on a quiz show and I won a book Nick has since been on by his count 44 game shows. Whoa. There's one 43 of them. He says he's won a boat He's won a house full of stuff trips to various places. This is like what he does And when he first encountered golden balls You know, he noticed the same miserable pattern that we all noticed which is like the nice people get up there They say let's share. Let's do it. We can be in this together and then every time

They were just shafted, but then Nick got an idea. How did you get that idea? I think I was probably Swimming I get all my greatest ideas on that swimming it was only when I went back and had a cup of tea, as everybody in Wales obviously drinks tea, with your lump of coal right next to you. Yes, you're a little pep coal lump. Coal is very important to Wales. When I got back I thought actually, it can't fail. MUSIC

So Nick makes it onto the show, makes it to the last round. Welcome back to Golden Balls. And he finds himself sitting across the table from a man named Ibrahim, who two of them are a study in contrast. Nick is tall, he's got really intense eyes, feathered hair. Ibrahim is short and bald, looks kind of like a mini Teli Savales. Ibrahim and Nick, you now face a very straightforward choice. Jess, for the host lays out the scenario,

they're competing for 14,000 pounds. They have to decide to split or steal. And now we get to the good part. Now keep in mind, as you listen to this, that almost 100% of the time, what happens in this moment is one person looks at the other and says, I promise you, I will choose the split ball. We'll share it. We'll share it.

We'll share it together. Yeah, that's what they say. Nick takes a very different approach. Abraham, I want you to trust me. 100% I'm going to pick the steel ball. Sorry, you're gonna... I'm gonna choose the steel ball. You're gonna take...

I want you to do split and I promise you that I will split the money with you. Well, after you've took the steal Yeah, you're gonna take steal. Yeah, I'm gonna take split. Yeah, so you take the money and I will split it with you after the show There was there was a panic in the studio This is all I do was like I'm not even gonna pretend I'm not gonna steal I then I'll meet you on a corner after the television show. You do the half of it? Well, I go that's ridiculous.

All the research has started running around going, what's he doing? Can this be done? There was panic. You know, I promise you I'll do that. If you do steal, we both walk away with nothing. I'm telling you 100% I'm going to do it. I appreciate that.

Right, I'll give you an overall turn here. Why don't we just both pick split? I'm not gonna pick split, I'm gonna steal. Abraham, honestly, 100% gonna steal. It's in your nature to steal. No, I'm honest, and I'm gonna tell you. You're an honest man. I am, that's why I'm telling you I'm gonna steal.

If you do split, then I will split the money. I can't see myself doing it. Okay, well I'm gonna steal, so we're gonna leave with nothing. Where's your friends coming from? LAUGHTER I can't work at. I know that I'm a decent guy and I will spend the money with you. Well we should just buy some bit then. No I'm gonna do steel. And this argument went on and on. Blind me a Riley. The actual argument, not the edited version online, went for 45 minutes.

There was a name calling, there were threats, and over those 45 minutes, there was an interesting shift. Nick says that the audience began to turn on him. The audience behind were booing me. Which I get, because as I was watching, and I mean initially it seems like a really cool clever strategy, but then you realize as it goes on that he's being kind of a nass, like he's not giving the other guy a choice,

he's actually kind of bullying him. No matter what's not giving the other guy a choice. He's actually kind of bullying him. No matter what he said, I was not budging from the fact and my entrantigence just infuriated him. Did you ever actually hate him or actually... Yes, I did hate him. Yes, yes, yes I did. This is Abraham. Abraham who's saying,

I'm a market writer, I work on flea markets. He sells textiles in London. It took us forever to track him down. Months. And you found me at last. But I did hate him, I think, because he couldn't be... He couldn't... You couldn't negotiate with him.

There was no negotiation. I was saying to him, like, if I give you my word that I'm going to split, then I'm going to split. If I gave you my word, now let me tell you what my word means. Okay. My father once said to me, a man who doesn't keep his word is not a man. He's not worth nothing, not worth a dollar. I agree. So, even though I'm going to steal, so you've got the choice. That was the point where I was like, Nick, give the guy a chance at least. Come on.

We've lost it. We've lost everything. We've lost it. We're walking away with no money because you're an idiot. No, that's not true. You're an idiot. That's what you're an idiot. You're an idiot.

That's what you are. This can go on all night and these people have got to get up for breakfast. Nick, choose split or steel. And right before they have to make their decision, it seems that Ibrahim caves. Maybe Nick warmed down and he's like, fine, you choose steel, I'll choose split, hopefully you'll share the money. Right, I'll tell you what, I'm going to go with you. Okay, I'm going to go with you.

I promise you I will tell you what, I'm gonna go with you. Okay, I'm gonna go with you. I'd promise you I would split it. Oh! Oh! You cannot change your balls now. Split or steal? They both turn over their balls. Ibrahim, as we suspected, chose split. I felt I had no alternative. And Nick, also chose Split. Yeah, congratulations, you have both split and each received 6,900 pounds.

How did you put me through that? Why did you do it today? The whole game he swore he was going to steal, but then he ends up splitting. Do you think that he was lying the whole time and always intended to share? We could have changed his mind at the last second, whatever the case. Here's why his strategy was so brilliant. Oh, shut. Oh, shut. Oh, shut. I was taking it back. When we asked Ibrahim, like if Nick hadn't deployed that crazy strategy,

would you have still split? Because that's what you were saying to him the whole time that you're gonna split it. You're gonna share the money. Would you have still done it? No, not at all. Not at all. I was always gonna steal. I was never gonna split. Never. Really? Really? I was never gonna steal. I was never gonna split. Never. Really? Really? I was never gonna split. Why? But why? Well, the reason being, if I split and the other guy steals, I'll get nothing.

I'd rather both of us walk away than someone was the word, embarrass me to a certain extent. Didn't want to be the sucker. And then I asked him, like, what about that speech with your dad? You know, it's the one that kind of got me my father once said to me A man who doesn't keep his word is not a man. It cannot no can I just jumping about that? Yeah, my dad I I never met him I Mother brought me up me and my brother and my sister, and I never ever met my father. So that you made that up?

Yeah, I'm afraid so. You made that up? Yeah, yeah. I think I'm sorry on a film once. And it always stuck with me. I'm sorry on a film once. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha pretending to share the money. Whose whole philosophy was like, don't trust anybody, don't trust no one. He got that guy to be good against his will, and that guy thanks him for it. He did con me to a certain extent,

but he conned me into seven fairs and pan. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I'm very grateful to have the money, so he can give it to charity. I run a children's charity. I do all the health and safety and all the fundraising. Is that connected in any way to your multiple appearances on Game Shows? Yes. It is. Yes. Huh? Directly. Yes.

It's still like... It's just a surprise. I did, because it's a first. Wow. I kind of forgot how abruptly that ends, but man, what a ride, right? Woo! Um, okay, before I go, just wanted to remind you, one last time, Radio Lab Senior Producer Simon Adler, doing his multimedia extravaganza, Radio Lab Live, how the cassette tape changed us, on May 5th,

during the Hot Docks Festival at the Hot Do Doc Cinema in Toronto, I'm from Toronto. The Hot Docs Cinema is like one of the best things about the city that I am from. There are a few tickets still left. Jump on them if you are going to be around. Yeah, it'll be great. Okay, catch you next week. Radio Lab signing off. next week, Radio Lab signing off. Radio Lab was created by Jad Abmerad and is edited by Soren Wheeler. Lulu Miller and Latif Nasir are our co-hosts. Dylan Keave is our director of sound design. Our staff include Simon Adler, Jeremy Bloom, Becca Bressler, Rachel Qsick, and Kedi Foster Keys, W. Harry Fortuna, David Gabel, Maria Pasco, T.R.S.

Sindus Yana San Bandan, Matt Kilti, Annie McEwan, Alex Nisen, Sarah Curry, and a Hressqueette bus, Sarah Sandback, Ariane Wack, Pat Walters, and Molly Webster, with hope from Andrew Vinyalex. Our fact checkers are Diane Kelly, Emily Krueger, and Natalie Middleton. Hi, this is Finn Collin from Stores, Connecticut. Leadership Support for Radio and not only middle-term. Foundation.