Radiolab - The Rhino Hunter

Episode Date: May 28, 2021

Back in 2014, Corey Knowlton paid $350,000 for a hunting trip to Namibia to shoot and kill an endangered species.  He’s a professional hunter, who guides hunts all around the world, so going to Africa would be nothing new.  The target on the other hand would be. And so too, he quickly found, would be the attention.  This episode, producer Simon Adler follows Corey as he dodges death threats and prepares to pull the trigger.  Along the way we stop to talk with Namibian hunters and government officials, American activists, and someone who's been here before - Kenya’s former Director of Wildlife, Richard Leakey.   All the while, we try to uncover what conservation really means in the 21st century. Reported & produced by Simon Adler with production help from Matthew Kielty. Special thanks to Chris Weaver, Ian Wallace, Mark Barrow, the Lindstrom family, and everyone at the Aru Game Lodge in Namibia. Thanks also to Sarah Fogel, Ray Crow, Barbara Clucus, and Diogo Veríssimo. Support Radiolab by becoming a member today at Radiolab.org/donate.   

So, should I start us? Mm-hmm. Okay. Go for it. Three, two, one. Hey, I'm Simon Adler. This is Radio Lab. I'm Anna McKeown. This is Radio Lab. Well, okay. And we both find ourselves in different countries talking to one another.

And you've brought me here because you're picking this week's rerun. That's all I know. That's right. Yes. Okay. So my pick is one of your episodes, Simon. What an honor. Okay, so the reason I picked this is because the moment I met you, this episode I just come out that early, early morning, probably at 4 a.m. And it was my first day at the office, and I just come at the elevator, I was really nervous,

and there was Simon Adler's desk, and it was empty. Where Simon Adler, well, he was a very, very late, making this amazing episode that you can go now, listen to. And then if you are as later, you came in, and you just sort of emanated this piece and calm and pride, because you had just made this episode called the Rhino Hunter, and you remember that. Okay, this is Nancy. Yes, okay, this is not, yes, okay. I don't remember the calm, and I don't remember.

I remember, didn't we sit on a bench? Your first day, I sort of recalled that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, why, beyond that bench, why did you pick this? Well, okay, I mean, just to flatter me, whether it's just to flatter me. Well, I think that the reason why, I mean, just a flatter me, but just a flatter me. Well, I think that the reason why,

I mean, I love this episode for so many reasons, but I think one in particular is just the way it totally breaks your brain in half. Do you know what I mean? Like, you kind of walk into it thinking like, all right, I think this way about this thing. And then, and then you kind of listen and then about halfway through, you're like, oh, wait, now I think this way about that thing.

And then, and then you're kind of sitting in this like, oh, no, and the two halves of your brain are like, and then by the end, you're just like, well, I need to go on a long walk and have, have a, like, a, walk and have a time to just straighten everything out because you've just sort of like, you've just sort of applied the two pieces of my brain in part. And I think that like that, I mean, it's sort of cheesy to say at this point, but I think that is something that of course our world needs more of right now. And this episode just feeds it to you in pill form. Well, wow. Feel free to send me the medical bill for your brain, okay.

Okay, cool. Yeah, but I'm honored. I'm honored to have broken your brain. For sure, yeah. But anyway, I don't know. Should we just like play it or what? Sure. Well, yeah, yeah, it's your pick. So yeah, do it. Okay, let's go. One, two, three. Jaden Robert. Go. Oh, wait, you're listening. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Go on. Go on listening. To Radio Lab. Radio Lab. From WNYC. To C. Yes. Hey, I'm Jaden Abelmrod. I'm Robert Krohlwich.

This is Radio Lab and today, a story that we've been working on for close to two years, but just before we've put on the air, this happened. Our next story in perspective, it's as if someone had killed Lassie. As you probably know, over this past summer, a Minnesota dentist named Walter Palmer paid 55 grand to get permission to hunt and kill a lion. A lion named Cecil. An African lion considered to be a national treasure in the country of Zimbabwe.

It was a pretty famous lion, sort of the star of that park, and been in a few studies. So immediately there were allegations of poaching. Zimbabwe where Cecil was killed, opened up an investigation, but what really caught our eye? Was the reaction from the public? Lion killer, the words painted on the home

of Dr. Walter Palmer. People found out his home address started cheering it online. Shut him down! The backlash threatening his livelihood now. Protestus gathered outside his office. Posting signs on the lock doors, branding him a coward at a killer. He was forced to temporarily close his business,

vilified across the internet. They were taxed all over social media and YouTube and warning this next minute contains some pretty strong language. You are truly scum of the earth, wrote one. Walter, fuck it, Paul. Now fucking demented this motherfucker is? May you fucking burn to death.

I want somebody to take fucking her bed. What would happen if you were being hunted by a motherfucker into six hundred rupees? What the fuck is he? He's thousands of fucking money here! Today, we bring you a story that we hope will be a little bit of signal in all that noise. This is a story about the strange relationship between wanting to hunt and kill an animal

and wanting to save it. And it comes from our producer Simon Adler. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. All right, so this story really started for me in Salt Lake City. 4 or 5. Alright, so this story really started for me in Salt Lake City. This past February I went to the Western Hunting and Conservation Expo, sometimes referred to as the Super Bowl of Hunting. Some walking through this airplane hanger sized room. It's at this massive convention center called the

Salt Palace. Over 40,000 people there, gun manufacturers, there were bow makers, there were duck call makers. This was a single read. Kamelflage clothing apparel companies. This place is rocking and I hope you're having a good time and if you're having a good time I want to hear a big e-haul. As part of the expo off this main floor there was a banquet hall where there was an MC who was working the crowd. Well tonight I want to continue on a couple of

thoughts that we touched on last night. You know our greatest conservation president, Theodore Roosevelt said the wildlife and its habitat cannot speak for itself. So we must. Well, let me tell you, we have, and we will continue to speak, but we've got to go further than speaking. We're going to have to suit up in our armor to go into battle, to protect our wildlife and our way of life. Well, let me tell you, we are at war brought on by the extreme radical environmental movement. If we're not vigilant and gauge this enemy, the most endangered species in America could be the American hunter. Now, one of the things that surprised me,

kind of right off the bat, was talking to people, everybody kept coming back to this idea and hitting on this idea that, like, if it weren't for us, if it weren't for the hunters. The animals would not be alive without us hunting them. They would go extinct. I got that line over and over again. There would be no animals other hunt. Basically what they mean by this is they are the ones that are paying to keep these animals around. They are the ones who are funding conservation. And I saw what that looked like on the final night of the Expo Saturday night when the organizers held this auction.

And now is the time to open your wallets. Get out your checkbook, your credit cards. In fact, we'll even take IOUs written on the back of an Appkin. Let's make some money for wildlife, buddy. Let's do it. Our first auction item tonight presented. The first couple items, they were just like guns. It's an American-made rouger. Rifles. But then... Item number three, we're going to full-curl stone. The picture of the sheep pops up on this jumbo screen up on the stage.

Big stone sheep, as you can see right there. Big ones. Big ones. Huge curling horns. Thick brown coat. Beautiful color. That's on the bucket list, brother. Yeah. That's on the bucket list brother That's on the bucket list so the winner of this auction item what they're actually buying is The chance to go up to Canada on this very specific area and to shoot one of these sheep to get a tag to shoot one of these sheep

I have an opening bid of $30,000 That's what I'm talking about. Let's go 32 and a half. 32 and a half. One down, but I'm gonna have to get to that, but I'm gonna have to get 32 and a half for one of the best stone units there is. I'm 32 and a half down the middle.

Need 35. One down, but I'm gonna have to get five. 35,000, one time and last call. Sold him right over here. $35,000. Look right. A few items later. Let's keep it rolling, we're at number six. A picture of a moose comes on the screen. For all of you, moose hunters want a great,

sharice moose. The kind of moose that, you know, their antlers fan out like giant wings. Ladies and gentlemen, I got $10,000. Somebody give me 12 and a half. 12 and a half, one dollar, one dollar, one dollar, one dollar, one dollar, one dollar, one dollar, one dollar, one dollar,

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but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, now, but now, now, but now, but now, now, but now, but now, now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now, but now state has an agency that's responsible for managing its wildlife.

And so if you're a hunter, you basically have to buy a tag from that state agency in order to shoot just about any animal. For example, in Arizona, Arizona is this grid of hunting areas. And you apply to a lottery for zone B I would really like to be able to shoot a moose. You put your $20 in, this is typical. And if your name comes up, you get your tag for $20. But it's possible that you're not going to get one. And sometimes you have to wait 10 or 20 years, especially for these big game analysts. So what these agencies do, they set aside a certain number of these

tags every year, which are called conservation tags. And what these conservation tags are is like, if you just give a bunch of money right now, I did not see this comment. You have free range to do what you want. Hop the line, shoot the animal you want, no way. $80,000, they did it! Freakin' did it!

And then all that money goes back to those state agencies for land management, habitat restoration. Like we're talking millions of dollars that get raised this way. One auction item that I saw sold that night. A special big game enhancement package. Which basically gave whoever wanted the right to shoot just about any animal in the entire state of New Mexico for a year. I'm just at some levels.

And in fact, the whole reason I had come to this convention was to talk to a guy who had done an auction like this. But in his case, it kind of blew up on him. Honestly, did not expect to be in the position that I am today. My name is Corey Nolton. C-O-R-E-Y-K-N-O-W-L-T-O-N. And is that how you're going to set? You're going to lead back more. Cory and Ultim, C-O-R-E-Y-K-N-O-W-L-T-O-N. And is that how you're going to sit?

You're going to lean back more. You know, I'll probably move around a lot. Yeah, OK. Cory and Ultim has become kind of the poster child of this idea of hunter conservation. He's a Texas millionaire. I met him in his hotel room right across his street from the expo.

He was in a white t-shirt, blue jeans, a little bit of stubble on his face. And story goes back in January of 2014, he was at next post super similar to this one, put on by the Dallas Safari Club. I had my wife with me. He was just walking the floor when he bumped into a friend of his. Gentlemen by the name of John Jackson, okay?

And John Jackson heads up a group called Conservation Force. So anyway, John came to me. And he told Cory that he was worried and John Jackson heads up a group called Conservation Force. So anyway, John came to me. And he told Cory that he was worried that the Delce Farrie Club, they were auctioning off an opportunity to hunt a black rhino in Namibia. The Namibian Ministry of Environment and Tourism

had given them one tag to hunt one black rhino, and they were gonna auction it off. Now, the black rhino is a critically endangered species. There are about 5,000 of them in the world, about 2,000 in Namibia. And what the Namibian government does is they auction off the older males. What happens is the black rhino gets older, it sees other rhinos, it wants to attack them often times and kill them. So the government will offer up those problem rhinos for trophy hunting

and then use the money to protect the others from poachers. Is poaching of the black rhinos a real issue? Huge issue. Rhino horn right now, it goes, what's the number? $60,000 a pound. Oh my god. Yeah, it's worth like three times as much as gold per ounce. Damn.

In any case, Cory says the reason that John was so worried. Oh my God. Yeah, it's worth like three times as much as gold. Per ounce. Damn. In any case, Cory says the reason that John was so worried. John said Cory, there's been a giant push of people coming out against this. It's literally a license to kill. People don't want it to happen. A permit to hunt down and kill one of the world's most endangered animals.

You said I'm really worried that we're not gonna have someone to bid this minimum bid. His friend was worried that there were gonna be these Namibian ministers there, and they just didn't wanna be embarrassed. So John asked me, said, would you at least bid the minimum bid? Just a soda like get the auction rolling.

And as a friend, if somebody that I've been friends with for over a decade, I said, yes, I would do that. So, night of the auction. They started this auction, just like any other auction. Eventually, Cory makes his bid. $350,000. Thinking that would just go to the other bidders. That's right, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna do what I told you.

I'm gonna follow through my commitment. It's when all of a sudden... Going once, going twice. Boom, it happens. You know, I'm just me, I'm just Cory Nolt, I'm just a guy my commitment is when all of a sudden... Going once, going twice. Boom, it happens. You know, I'm just me. I'm just core-knought, I'm just a guy, I take people on. But immediately, I've got people surrounding me. You know, a giant line of people congratulating me.

He's like, I didn't expect to be the guy who'd get it. But okay. But next 48 hours, we now know who paid $350,000 for a hunting permit to kill an endangered black rhino in Namibia. A barrage of threats started coming. He's being bombarded with death threats. Among the thousands of postings,

I hope the rhino rips you in half. Do your children know what a monster their father is? I hope you get what you deserve, a short and painful existence. Cory says people threaten to murder his parents, to rape his wife to death. I'm coming to your house. I'm going to burn it down. I'm going to put your kids in a wood shipper.

I'm going to do it in front of you. At any point in this, have you been super-inthrailed by the idea? Have you always wanted tohralled by the idea? Have you always wanted to shoot a black rhino? Yeah, hey Nate. Yeah, you're going to have to know we're going to have to be quiet. I definitely haven't always wanted to shoot a black rhino. Have I always wanted to hunt for as long as I remember?

Yes. Okay. Not a big journey in life. When I was born, we had literally nothing. He told me he grew up in rural Missouri in a small house than a trailer home. His mom raised the family and his dad loaded trucks at Safeway. Okay. And we're trying to survive as a family. So when Cory was eight. We left Missouri in a in a Monty Carlow with $2,500 in the bank and a dream to make it in this world, okay? So by the time I was 15, we had moved all over the United States.

His dad picked up jobs in Arizona, Texas. I'm going from school to school to school. I didn't really have the benefit of getting in any sports teams or whatever, but the one thing I did is I had a dad that worked his butt off every day. I didn't get to spend much time with him. So then when we would want to go do things, hey, dad, let's go dov, huh? And it's a dove season. You know, and he loved that. He mentioned this one time when he was 11. We go out. I have shotgun in my hand. Two

doves fly up and I shoot and both of them died. One shot fell right there. Okay. I went over there. Gov a doves went through cleaning them, okay, I'm preparing to cook them. And just being in that moment and not worrying about other problems that we all go through in life and just having a nice quiet time with dad. I looked at it as a privilege to go hunting. I didn't look at it like, hey, it's my right to go out and take some animals life.

I look at it like this is an awesome opportunity. I get to go spin with my dad outside. Now, as I became older, I became more interested in hunting or learn about bows. I wanna learn about hunting. I was eight up with it. By the time he was in his mid-20s, he says, and this is right around the time his dad hit a big

in the oil industry, he was leading hunts all around the world. From the North Pole to his far south as you could hunt in New Zealand. Nepal. Hopping to Guinea. So, I've seen the whole world. And he says somewhere in the middle of all of those trips, he realized. There's a big fight out there.

This large biomass of humanity is taking over the world and wildlife doesn't exist by accident anymore. And so he started thinking about not just hunting these animals, but preserving them and keeping them here. All of which is to say when he won that auction without meaning to and started getting all those death threats, he didn't turn back. What on earth is keeping you so steadfast and going ahead and doing this? I think I would have thought, I shouldn't have done this. I was willing to do this, and it may have not been what I planned on,

but I was willing to do this based on a commitment to I made to a friend. I made a commitment to my family. I made a commitment to conservation as a whole. Look, this was never about me going over and taking a black rhino's life. Like finally I get to achieve the zenith of life and killing this black rhino. Give me a break. It was about a method of conservation to keep black rhinos on the face of this earth. You are saying that you're doing this for conservation. Your detractors will say,

they will say you say you are only doing it for conservation when you are really doing it. I was only doing it for conservation. No, I'm not saying that's what you said. I'm saying that's, this is what they will throw at you. You are only, you are saying you're only doing it for conservation. Well, all you are actually getting out of it

is some sort of satisfaction. And can you talk for a minute about? Talk for more than a minute about it. Okay, all right, sure. I enjoy the act of hunting. Can I tell you why? Could I wrap that up in a real pretty burrito for you to be able to eat and understand it tastes good?

No, but I can tell you that I care about the survival of these species. And do you understand why people have a hard time wrapping their mind around that? you believing that and simultaneously wanting to kill an animal? Or does that just, does it not compute you at all? I mean, at what point we're getting redundant. They're missing the whole boat. We don't have one without the other. Okay. If we want wildlife to be other, okay? If we want wildlife to be around for future generations, we have to understand that that wildlife has to have a value. If it doesn't have a value,

especially in the continent of Africa, it's going to be gone. And here he made a sort of economic argument. He said, you got to keep in mind that living next to a black rhino, not just talking about it, mind that living next to a black rhino, not just talking about it, but actually living next to a black rhino, it's a nightmare. I mean, who wants to live next door to a raging psychopathic beast? It's killing things. No one. So, in just very purely economic terms, it has a negative value. But what Cory will tell you and what conservation organizations like World Wildlife Fund and various others will tell you

is by him paying $350,000 to shoot one, he is creating a positive value for that animal. He's creating jobs for game wardens, he's creating jobs for trackers. So you gotta look at the net benefit. It's there. And so what is the common ground here? Because you guys want the same things.

And yet there's somehow this. I don't know, I don't know. Because you guys want the same things. And yet there's somehow this... No, no, no, no, no. We don't want the same thing. Conservationists in general do. Common ground has to be. Do you or do you not want to see black rhinos on the face of the earth? And I think everyone agrees that they do. But I think even...

No, I think they do. Because their actions are speaking louder than their words. And I think to a lot of people, there are these neocolonial sentiments here. That you are this guy who has a lot of money and you are paying a lot of money to go to Africa to shoot this thing. And I think that causes a reaction in certain people. Do you think the amount of money plays into it or no? I'm gonna take a break for once.

Okay. Okay. You can say you don't wanna answer anything or that. No, I want to give you the best possible answer. Do you understand the amount of money I'm trying? I'm really trying to an emotional level where I'm like, God dang man, I want these people to get so fucking bad. level where I'm like, God dang man, I want these people to get so fucking bad. I just don't know if I'm gonna be able to.

We can stop. No, it's, you don't have to stop. Just give me a second. And I know that the words that I put out mean something and I don't want to do it to service. And I feel like I'm letting people down. And I'm not a radical psychopath, you can see that. Okay, just something I believe in. I can believe in these animals.

And I believe that I want them here. But I also understand that death is inevitable. But the death of the species doesn't have to be. And so I'm putting myself through this because I believe in that it's right because I've seen that it's right. And I'll go down and I will sit next to people in Africa, and I will sit next to people in Africa, both indigenous and non-indigenous, that have the exact same belief. And they want these animals, they love them, they want their kids to see it.

They know that one night when the stars are above and they're sitting there with their family and lying roars in a distance. They feel that. They feel what it means to be afraid of it. They feel what it means to respect it. They feel what it means to love it and they want that to continue. And I want that to continue. And in a realistic view, a realist view, I believe I have a grasp on what it takes for that to continue. Thank you for being so honest. I have a heavy other question. Okay. So that conversation happened over six months ago.

At that point, the hunt was totally in limbo. He was still receiving death threats, animal welfare organizations, like Humane Society of the United States were lobbying and petitioning to try to stop the hunt. And what it all really hinged on was a decision to be made by US Fish and Wildlife. Under the Endangered Species Act, it's illegal to import the carcass of an endangered species

into the United States unless you can prove that by killing and importing that animal, you are helping the species as a whole. So that's what US Fish and Wildlife had to decide. Would Cory killing and importing that one black rhino help black rhinos as a whole? March went by April and then in really May I got a text from Cory that just read Let's Talk Tomorrow. I got a text from Corey that just read, let's talk tomorrow. Kill me up. We take a trip. My name is Courtney and I'm calling from Johannesburg South Africa. Radio Lab is supported in part by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation

enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. More information about Sloan at www.loan.org Science reporting on Radio Lab is supported in part by Science Sandbox, a Simon's Foundation initiative dedicated to engaging everyone with the process of science. Alright, we are off the plane walking into the airport, I suppose this would be the first time we've actually stepped foot in Namibia. The destination. I'm Chad Evin-Rond and Robert Kilwich back to our boarder Simon Adler. Okay, so days after getting that text message, I landed Namibia, meet back up with Corp.

Today we're in Wynn Togna-Namibia, it's the 13th of May 2015. This is Simon's big day to interview local officials, professional hunters, and any bum on the street that wants to comment. And how long have we been traveling for? Probably like close to 48 hours now. You're feeling all right at this point? A lot better now.

Just getting off the plane and feeling the wind. The airport is tiny. We get through customs and everything and immediately... Simon, I'm Antti, nice to meet you, man. We're met by the pH, Hinti van Hird, the pH. I am a professional hunter. The professional hunter. I requested by Gori Nolten to assist him on his hunt.

He's sort of the manager of this entire project. Big dude, scraggly beard, short shorts. We need to go and pick up our stuff. He leaves us out of the airport. So what does the day's agenda hold for us? Sort chaos out. Sorting chaos out of it. Your chaos just started my friend. So we get in his truck, start driving. And do you mind if I ask you some questions, will we drive here? We're hanging on! And I immediately just realized what a headache putting all this together has been for him. Oh! 10 million phone calls.

Meetings of the meetings with Minister of Environment and Tourism, head office checking with local offices, all to help them figure out which is the best rhino for Cory to shoot. So they had their list. And so how many, at this point, you know exactly which one you'll be going after, or there are a couple. The main place we've identified, there is two rhino's we can remove from that area, both male, aggressive, post-reproductive. We're gonna try to get on one of these two animals and try to remove it as professionally as we can possibly do.

of these two animals and try to remove it as professionally as we can possibly do. So we're at the Ministry of Environment and Tourism, as apparently a meet and greet. Later that day, we stopped to shake hands with the permanent secretary, Simian Ngumbo. He gave this kind of prepared speech about how trophy hunting is a big part of why Namibia is considered the gold standard of conservation in Africa. This program assists us to have a wildlife growing. Previously, our wildlife was almost declining, like elephants were less than 1,000. But now we have plenty of them, we don't know where to put them in. At 10,000 thousand. So they are many now. So you've been so successful that you have to deal with a surplus?

Yeah. All the type of species will have you. They are growing fast. Fast forward to the next morning? It's 4.46 a.m. I doubt that Simon nor I got any sleep last night. Despite all that. Someone's gonna get hurt before you're through. Simon nor I got any sleep last night. Despite all that, so... He was in high spirits. First thing we're going down to the truck is fire arm and ammunition, big knives knives and things so we can skin into the rhino. Morning, morning, how are you?

Hinti was on the phone, taking care of final details. And much to my chagrin, there was this crew of CNN reporters hanging around. Once everything was loaded, we took off for the airport. Should I leave you here, Corey? Yeah. And I waved them off. Okay. Happy hunting.

Good luck. All right, thanks, ma'am. You what? What was that again? You waved? I don't understand. I was unable to go on the Rhino hunt itself. What?

I know. I know. You seem disappointed. What happened? Number one, a hunting party can only be so large in Namibia. And with these three CNN guys there, the party was just full. But you also have to understand,

I was in the country illegally. I had no press pass, I had no press visa. So this was like, oh, I've got to keep my head down. Okay, this is- That's yeah, that is our fault. So are you telling me the story is over? Is that what you're basically saying? No, no, don't worry.

Corey's personal cameraman, he promised to give me all of his audio, so we do have the audio and we'll get to that. But, well, they were headed up north, I actually ended up going east, and where I went, totally unexpectedly, made this model of conservation and how it works, like, really finally clicked into place for me. Do you mind just telling me your name and where we are? Oh, my name is Andres Wanipu. My name is Estelle Wanipu. Sort of the owner of these consents.

I'm going to keep your company. All right, sounds good. Andres and Estelle Wanipu own the Aru game farms, which are a series of huge swats of land that they fenced in and total they have like over 200 square miles of land. That actually used to be filled with cattle. And 15, 16 years ago, we converted into a game form. Basically, they decided to get rid of all the cattle

and bring in all these animals. They've got giraffes, they've got two different species of zebra, wildebeest, artebeest, in all they've got 29 different species. Including. How many black rhinos are on the property here? Up until about three weeks ago they were 10 and now we've got 11. One of the hunting guides, Steph.

A statue there at the Arugamloges in Namibia. Told me that they actually just had a rhino born on the property and in fact they've had several throughout the years born on this property. And he took me out to find one. We're gonna look for signs and keep our eyes peeled. So what should I be looking for if I'm gonna be of any help here? Yeah, in a distance you'll just look like a big gray rock. You really gotta have a keen eye. We're driving through this really tall thick grass that kind of enveloped the car.

It was almost like we were driving through a cloud. So this is the Kalari Sawa grass. It's a real thick. It's almost like the mice can run on top of it. It's a mic. Yeah. And after searching and searching and searching, we've just spotted the ride.

Oh shit, there it is. Like a hundred yards away. Oh man, there it is. Like 100 yards away. Oh man, okay. Okay, shit. It's pointing at us. He's noticed us now. He's probably heard the vehicle. So, you know, we're still at a very safe distance.

I want to get us into the shade and we can have a closer look and you can put the binoculars up and take a real good look at it. Oh man, looking through the binoculars and he's just pointed straight at us. His head's moving left to right, left to right. I think this is a bull-boy that looks at things. God, it looks like a dinosaur, doesn't it?

It's a very pretty historic looking animal. He knew you were there. Oh yeah, he was totally looking at us. I'm going to put the binoculars on and see. He's trotting away from us. He started moving away from us and they've got these tiny looking legs So when they run they have to kind of shuffle along. I think if the grass was in there you would love for them the way they move it He's quite comical Very lucky to have found one

Jesus though we were tailing behind it and the crazy thing is this huge animal that weighs like over a ton. Oh and it is on the move. I was thinking move like 30 miles per hour. We're currently driving at about 15 kilometers an hour and he's getting away from us. Kind of left us behind. So he wants nothing to do with us, he's moving off of the... At one point before it took off, we actually got close enough that with the binoculars on,

Steph was able to get a good look at its ear. The booze that were put there initially have all got ear marks. And this one doesn't actually have an ear mark in it, so perhaps this one was born on this property. So how does that work? How did the rhinos get to be on this property? The Ministry of Environment, tourism had been in touch with the owner of auto game notges. Government said, hey, you've got all this land, you take a couple of these rhinos and protect them for us. And they said, sure. You know, we started off with a couple, three rhinos and the numbers grew.

And it becomes this like, strange, foster care type situation. Yeah, each year we have to take photos of them and we build up a portfolio and then we can send it into MET. It's interesting that like, they are breeding here. So there are more of them now than there would have been

if they hadn't been moved here, yeah? Yes, exactly. And another thing we were unlucky last year, we actually lost two runners. Steph said he wanted to show me something. He drove for about 10 minutes. Then he stopped the car at the small clearing. Almost no grass. One lone tree.

Kind of an eerie feeling. So I sort of feel when I stumble across this place. Oh man. And can you just describe what we're looking at right here? Bones scattered all over the red sand of the Colari. Bleach white bones against red, red sand. See the theme of it? We can see some positive spine as well. Is that a rhinoscal? Yeah. This is just a size of it. It's just unreal.

Wow. Can you see that there? We got out of the car and like actually like held these bones. Oh god. Wow. How did that happen? It was a dominant bull. It was fighting with a young bull.

The two squared off and the older one ended up goring the younger one with its horn. At least we think. And fortunately the young woman passed away. So it killed it. Yeah. Then this older bull that had just killed the younger one, Steph told me it then went up to this female. We wanted to reproduce and if the young female wasn't ready, she wasn't mature enough yet.

He kept forcing himself on her over and over. Until she couldn't in longer. I guess it would happen in nature as well. It's just unfortunate that they had to be here. So yeah, they would have been even more, but nature took its course. We didn't get involved in. So it is. Steph explained to me that it was these type of black rhinos,

these older aggressive bulls that get auctioned up for guys like Cory to come over and shoot. And then all the money that's been paid for is going back, all going back into anti-boaching units, is going back into conserving rhinos. And it's nice to see such a large sum of money coming in for good cause. So he believes in this program. But personally I'd never be able to shoot a black rhino. And why, what about you personally, wouldn't shoot a rhino? For me, I don't know, I can't really explain why. I don't know.

It's difficult to say, but no, it doesn't tickle me. Over the next couple days at the lodge, as was hanging out with kind of these tourists from all over the world who had come here to be wind and dined and then Got and shoot stuff in the morning and afternoon Steph's ambivalence Started to make a deep sort of sense to Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy for instance I spent a lot of time with this guy. Yeah, Stefan Lister. I'm from Sweden middle-aged there with his family on vacation We decided six years ago that we will go to Africa. So I'm very happy to be here today. This is six years in the making for you. Yeah, you can say so.

So it works in Vovos corporate office and he's a big trophy hunter. Maybe you should show you some picture from my home. Do you have lots on the wall already? It's a home, it's a home, it's a. And after the camp, we have at least 50 more. I got to follow him on a few hunts, him and his guide. My name is Pondjamanskriver. It's my setting. One of the hunts, we spent about two and a half hours searching for different animals, stalking different animals.

And then in the distance, we saw a very nice water bath bath boule. We finally found a water bath. Which is what? It's kind of like a reindeer, but it has these two big long horns that kind of shoot backwards, almost like spears. Big animal. Yep, big animal. I guess don't know how old he is, so we're just going to close and see. We hop down from the car and just start kind of slowly moving towards it through the grass. This took a lot of time to get there. I guess they're not going to have all the ice so we're just going to close and see. We hopped down from the car and just start kind of slowly moving towards it through the grass.

This type of animal is the top for me this weekend and this holiday. Stefan told me he had a list of animals he was hoping to shoot and this was at the top of this one. I think this was such a beautiful big animal. That's why. The game lodge charges $2,800 to shoot. Okay, there what up August, yes, he said. Straight.

Okay, let's go in and see. Okay. So at the moment, there's light wind. We're walking through shin-length grass. There are shrubs to the left and the right. Every like 10 minutes, we've stopped to measure how far away it was.

It's about 600 meters. If you think it's about 20 minutes to come, roll the clothes to them. Okay. That's all right. Eventually we got just a couple hundred feet away from it. The animal's off in the distance. It's just kind of pacing. Then pulls out this tripod, sets it up, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no one need. He's one, one in. Yeah, let's see, go. The first shot didn't kill it. I was needing to shoot rather high because it was a lot of a browse.

At this point, Ben seems tense. He doesn't like that, I think. I don't care. Because he knows that the animal is suffering. So the dog takes off, runs after it and just keeps it at bay by kind of circling it and we start moving towards it. Should I just go close off?

Okay. Nice try. Just wait, just wait, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it. Go away. Again, second shot doesn't kill it, falls down, gets back up, falls down again. You tell him more.

At least now, it's a bit, shoot. All right, just a little like, little next and more. At least down, it's up. Shit. It doesn't look too mixed and just... It's riding in the grass. Ben now seems pretty upset. I don't know what you showed me at the first time, but uh... Uh, rather high. He's looking at the right. Yeah.

And the third shot doesn't kill it. As we talk. Fuck. Shit. And the third shot doesn't kill it. This is not fun. I can shoot them in the neck. Finally, fourth shot, it goes limp. Damn, well so many shots. It's lying on the ground, its leg is still kicking a little bit, but it's done. Oh, it's so nice.

Yeah, that's what it would be. I'm so happy. I mean, it was the top of the list for me this weekend, so this hunt is perfect. It's very tough on the list for me this weekend, so this hunt is perfect. It's very nice feelings. So, seeing it up close, it can be emotionally difficult. But when you pan out, it's pretty clear. The numbers show that this Namibian model is working. Wildlife numbers on private land have gone up by almost 80 percent

since the government allowed people to buy, sell, and shoot wildlife on their land. And since trophy hunting of the Black Rhino was legalized, that population has grown by like 30%. But... Not all African conservationists are on board. I talked to a guy named Richard Leakey, a super famous anthropologist, who also directed Kenya's wildlife program for a while.

And I asked, what is your stance on this idea of sustainable youth? Of, of, listen to me, I think it's utterly ridiculous. You know, if a father can't afford to pay school fees for his children, does he say to somebody, you can rape my daughter so I can get the money to pay for school fees? I mean, I think we've got to set some standards in life. And I think this is nonsense. What this argument is about killing wild animals so that they can be looked after absolutely sets the wrong message. This was the big issue he took with Namibia strategy. Yes, you can, you can afford to lose five runners from a breeding perspective,

but does that send a right message? He then told me a story about when he took over Kenya's wildlife service in 1989. At the time, things were dire. Elephants were being killed in a alarming number, and we were going to lose our elephants totally. Poaching was on the rise, and his predecessors had actually confiscated a huge number of elephant tusks from these poachers. 12 tons, 12 tons. If you saw it, you thought that's another library.

And they recommended to him sell this ivory, make about $3 million, and then use that money to help fight poaching. But Leaky said no. What he did instead was he built a giant tower out of that ivory. And it's a fortune. Millions of dollars in ivory taken by poachers burned.

More than 12 tons of contraband, LL tons of illegally poached Ivory for several million dollars. It burned for three days. It got television, it got newspaper, the magazine, it got radio. It was this massive PR stunt to draw the world's attention to the plight of elephants. And part of what he was saying in that was like, we have to value these things beyond their dollar value. We have to respect the intrinsic value of these creatures.

But wait a second. If you're burning a bunch of ivory, aren't you in effect increasing the value of the ivory because now there's just less of it out there? Well, so you're looking at the supply end of it, right? Yes, by reducing supply that would push up price. Leaky was attacking the demand side. What an impact it had around the world. Pinyon changed overnight.

He said it woke the public up. People stopped buying ivory and the market for ivory, it just crashed. Up to that time, we'd been losing about 3 1 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1- 1000 elephants to 4000 elephants a year and a year later we were losing at most 60. Really, it had an enormous impact my friend. Getting a public that supports conservation of wildlife. That's a huge challenge and we just can't afford, I think, to send out the wrong messages. But the problem with that is finding the right message is getting harder and harder. I called various conservation organizations

and one guy who I talked to told me that their average age of donor is getting older, more and more people are just living in cities. Less people are having positive experiences in the natural world at a young age. And so he said that they're going to have to continue focusing on people, focusing on us. This message of what does wildlife give us?

What does it do for people? This is our third day up in the area. Still not luck, and we just going to keep at it. Back in Namibia, after three days of bushwhacking through this dense vegetation up in the north of the country, Cory and his crew finally got on the tracks of the right rhino. The local guy says we found a rhino that had killed another rhino, that had killed another rhino. So we're going to follow this one, make a 100% sure that it's a rhino one,

and then we'll try to take it if we can. So for the next couple hours, they track the animal looking for basically footprints anywhere that has marked its territory. So we've been tracking this thing for probably a couple hours now. We bumped it at least twice. We were at walk at this point just about 12 miles. It was very hot. You can see how thick it is right here, pretty tense.

The grass was so thick that they really couldn't see more than about 30 feet in front of them. And eventually they find... You can see this as the rhinosque. A pile of rhino feces that still warm. Still very moist, I mean it's frothed. This is, we're not more than an hour behind that animal. Right there, you can see the dumbbells and everything in it. And so... mean it's fruity. This is, we're not more than an hour behind that animal. Right there, you can see the done beetles and everything in it.

And so, we set there for a few minutes, right? Gathered our thoughts. There's no signal done that day. So you line it out, we're gonna do what you say. And then, about two hours later, heard some noise from my left. All that he is running beast with a giant saber on his head. It was like lightning.

So he also didn't get it with the first shot. The first several shots did not kill this thing. It ran off and then they had to start tracking it again. It was just wounded? Yes. We followed it. I would say 10 minutes I don't know I looked over there. I saw it. It was it lying down at this point It was standing up, but it had already fallen down twice. It was dying and then I shot it a few more times The last thing you do is once you really really assured it's a dead, you touch it's eye. And if it doesn't blink, it's gone.

So did you go touch it's eye? Absolutely. And a moment like that is there some sort, is there a conversation going on now that the animal is dead and you're not? No. We just kind of looked at everybody, looked at each other, made sure we were okay. There wasn't a whole lot of talk right then in this case. But it was an emotional moment for me.

So the meat we've been sitting here skinning this animal so far this morning, and now we're about to roll it over skin the other side and then just take the quarters off, just like any other animal that you would if you were on a hunting trip They loaded up all the meat to be shipped off to a local village and they

kept a little bit of it for themselves. So cooking my first piece of black rhino meat here on the coals next to the cargos Right here's the moment when the coals next to the carcass. Right here is the moment when everybody here has started eating some of this black rhino. So it's just a part of hunting and a part of being a human. So it's a pretty unique and awesome moment right here. I'm not really morally outraged by it, maybe I'm a little, but I think you might be vulnerable if you insist that your enthusiasm for hunting is part of the balance of nature. morally outraged by it. Maybe I'm a little, but I think you might be vulnerable if you insist that your enthusiasm for hunting is part of the balance of nature.

But I think it's a perfectly... You don't have those K9 teeth for eating salad. And I understand that people don't like it. Any more than they wouldn't like going and killing the lamb of the lamb chops they eat. But that doesn't mean that it's wrong. Hunting, it's part of who we are. Now, it may be a bigger part of who I am than you are, and that's fine. But when wildlife populations

abound is when they're managed by humans beings, the alternate model might be a view of humans that's different from yours. I think you assume that because we are smart and because there are so many of us that inevitably we will bump into them. And when we do, we will win and thus your calculations. The alternate model might be that because we are smart, we might create a space where we won't bump into them. Now you're not in a real world, we're dealing not in reality. Okay, I'm living in a world that matters and that's real. So it's not a dream scenario and it's not saying,

okay, well, let's just create this. Unfortunately, these animals don't have that time. So I'm not trying to outsmart anybody, it's just a traditional method that's worked. And until somebody comes up with a methodology that we could look at and say this is a better way, I'm going to continue to fight and believe in the traditional model. So now we're going to ask ourselves these questions. How do we really on an individual basis value this animal's

survival on earth? Do you really value it? Do you value it past making 75 characters into your iPhone tweeting about it? Do you value it past watching animal planet? To me, I know and I care and I placed an extreme value financially, physically, emotionally on the survival of the Black Rhino. We're Porter and producer Simon Adler. We had a considerable production support for this piece from Matthew Kilti, who also contributed some original music. Special thanks to Chris Weaver, Ian Wallace, Mark Barrow, Ryan Tarbett, the Linstrum family

and everyone at the Aru Game Lodge in Namibia. Hi, my name is Mi Shrogers the Auro game lodge in Namibia. Hi, my name is Mish Rogers. I'm calling from Kansas City, Missouri. Radio Lab is produced by Chad Abberrod. Our staff includes Brenna Farrell, Ellen Horn, David Gabel, Dylan Keith, Matt Kilti, Andy Mills, Latif Nasser, Kelsey Paget, Arianne Wach, Arianne Wach, Molly Webster, Sword Wheeler, and Jamie York, with help from Molly McBride Jacobson, Alexandra Lee Young, and Simon Adler. Our fact checkers are Eva Dasher and Michelle Harris.