Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov - Can a Democrat Win in MAGA’s Hometown? (ft. former Rep. David Jolly)

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

Jessica is joined by David Jolly, the ex-GOP former Congressman who’s running for governor of Florida… as a Democrat. David talks about why he left the Republican Party, and why he’s focused on the affordability crisis in his home state. Plus — he gives his thoughts on immigration policy, his faith, and how a Democrat can win in the “birthplace of MAGA.” Follow Jessica Tarlov, @JessicaTarlov.  Follow Prof G, @profgalloway. Follow Raging Moderates, @RagingModeratesPod. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlov, and my guest today is David Jolly. He's a former U.S. Congressman who represented his district in Florida's Gulf Coast from 2014 to 2017. He was a Republican then, but now he's a Democrat and he's running for governor of Florida. David Jolly, thank you so much for joining me. Welcome to the show. Hey, Jessica, great to be with you. And I would point out I also was an independent for about six years. So my journey has taken me a long ways. Well, let's start with the journey then. And then we'll get to Epstein, which I wanted to start with. So journey first and then conspiracy theory later. Did I mention this as a Florida governor's race about the affordability crisis? That's it. That's all we're talking about. No, but that was going to be my question. What do you do about it? But it is important. And there are so many Republicans who felt the same way that you do about the state of the modern GOP, but didn't do anything about it. And certainly didn't. change parties or detach themselves from the apparatus in this way. So please tell us about yourself. Yeah, sure. My origin story is going to sound a lot like your guest last week, we're at Talrico from Texas. I'm a person of deep Christian faith. I'm a preacher's kid from the South. And remarkably, today as a Democrat, I talk openly about that, just as the representative was last week on your show. And I would also point out, this is a longer conversation,

but this is a Democratic Party now that welcomes that conversation around values, right? not around evangelizing, but the basic principles of anybody's faith. I love, joy, respect, dignity, returning to basic values. So my origin story always starts with that, certainly, but my political story, look, I was always oriented kind of as a Bush 41 Republican, someone who frankly celebrated when Bush 41 left the NRA, but also kind of a less government, less taxes, less regulation kind of Republican fought the Tea Party rise, if you will, as we move from less government to no government. And then I did serve in Congress for three or four years. I'm an attorney. I've worked either with Capitol Hill or on Capitol Hill for about 20 years, cut my teeth, getting my experience

there. But I did serve as a member of Congress for three and a half years. I was a special election candidate. And that was as the Tea Party really took over and as Donald Trump was coming in. And so I was a Republican who supported marriage equality and climate science and gun control and campaign finance reform. Ultimately, though, arriving, this was part of my faith journey as well, arriving, applying my faith teachings to the question of reproductive freedom and choice. I had a very pro-life early record, but ended up being the only Republican to vote against the Planned Parenthood investigation and to offer a compromise to continue funding for reproductive care. So you can imagine, you know, Republicans really didn't want me and Democrats didn't need me, but then Donald Trump

hit the scene, and I was, if history cares, would recall, I was the only member of Congress, that cycle that took to the House floor and called on Donald Trump to drop out of the race. The only one that withheld is endorsement. I never did support Donald Trump in that 16th cycle. I ended up redistricted in a very Obama plus nine or 10 type district, lost my seat, left the party, and continued my voice about kind of the wrong direction as I saw it of the Republican party. I was with MSNBC for the last six or seven years and recently left to run for governor of the state of Florida. Yeah, I have enjoyed your media life seeing you frequently on MSNBC.

Well, yours as well. Yours as well. I'm a fan. Me too. I'm glad we found each other. You know what I did? Can I just share this? I know your whole audience knows this. What you say is important, but the fact that you're in the arena, it's not easy. And I experienced that as well. So my compliments to you. Thank you very much. I feel like for a long time, I was like the Democratic bad kid, I guess, or that people didn't necessarily believe that I was true blue, because I think if you're hanging out in conservative circles, if you're, you know, taking a certain paycheck, though, I mean, the companies that people consult for, I'm like, are you registered with FARA for that one? But anyway, this idea that it's not good work to go and speak to audiences that disagree with you

or to have colleagues who's some of the reviews you find downright deplorable to use Hillary Clintonism. That kind of thinking seems to have fallen by the wayside, at least with the 2024 election results. I think that that happened too late, that it was quite obvious years before even Joe Biden's win. We should take a lesson from that and look at the people who believe a lot of the things that you do. And I would imagine now that you are out there campaigning that you are looking for a lot of those more moderate, independent-minded voters who can be persuaded that what you're offering is the right path forward for Florida. So can you talk about what your campaign has been like? Yeah, interesting. So not to disagree with you at all, we're on the same page, but I don't- I welcome it. Yeah, no, look, I don't

position myself necessarily running as a moderate, simply because one of the things that I learned in the independent space. So for about six years, I worked with Christy Todd Whitman, Andrew Yang, and some others to try to organize the independent space. And it was very revealing. First, we make a mistake about independence that they're all moderates. They're not. Some are super progressive.

Some are super conservative. But I think most of them are pluralists. I mean, this gets a little wonky. But the reality is a lot of people don't define their politics on the left-right spectrum, right? We are quick to jump in in analysis and say, are they a moderate, conservative, or they progressive? A lot of people, depending on the issue,

they'll fall in a different place, right? So my own politics, for instance, I'm for less corporate taxes, but more gun violence prevention legislation. That makes me on the right or on the left. But I think what's most important for people's politics is do we have people talking about big solutions for big problems? And that is what kind of catalyzes a lot of disaffected voters, young voters, independent voters. And so for me, look, ever since the Trump years, I've been a natural ally of the Democratic Party and the Democratic coalition. I remember my buddy Claire McCaskill the first time we were on set together. You know, I told her, I'm more of a Democrat right now than you are because I was calling to impeach Donald Trump

and she was saying, just wait on Pelosi. And I was saying, come on, let's go. But I think if we can kind of do away a little bit with the left-right spectrum, we get to focus in on who are the candidates and which party, in this case, I believe today's Democratic Party represents a coalition that can offer big solutions to big problems. And so I always start with political values, not the faith values, though I talk openly about my faith values. I think there are three values that really are fundamentally American values, but also values I see in today's Democratic Party. The economy should work for everyone, not just the rich and the reckless, it should work for everyone. It should lift everyone up. That's a capitalist economy. It's not socialism. It's not communism. The capitalist

economy should work for everyone. Secondly, is the government actually has a role in people's lives. should serve, our seniors, our veterans, our storm victims, families in need of excellence in public education, transportation, health care, whatever it might be. The government does have a role, kind of the Bill Clinton-92 conversation. And then the third value is everyone should be welcomed, lifted up, and celebrated, regardless of where you were born, the color of your skin, who you love or who you worship. Those are values, right? And so then if we go into communities where perhaps Democrats have either not gone or at least not successfully performed,

can we go into the faith community and say, listen, I believe these values are better aligned with the teachings of faith. As I mentioned, all faith, the basics, joy, dignity, respect, helping each other. But we also have to go into the gun community and say, look, I know responsible gun owners aren't the problem,

but if we tighten gun violence prevention legislation, we'll save your kids just like mine. The labor markets and the ad community are tight because, Trump and DeSantis, in my case, in Florida, are attacking communities, not fighting crime. And so we want to provide relief there. But we also have to be Democrats, in my case, that go into South Florida and say socialism's wrong. We believe in capitalism. But fair capitalism means if your personal economy gets disrupted, if you lose your job or something happens,

you're not going to fall and hit the pavement. You're going to be caught by a safety net. You'll have access to secure housing and health care and food. Those are all value-based positions, not the real wonky policies that, yes, as governor of Florida, I hope I would have the opportunity pursue. But on that, you can call it moderate, conservative, progressive. I don't care, but I think we have a big enough coalition that says, you know what, I believe in those shared values. I love it. And it has some specificity to it, which I've been desperate for. I've talked to a ton of people where I'm like, that's, you know, all well and good. But, like, I really need to understand what's going on your bumper stickers. And people especially struggle around

the conversation vis-a-vis capitalism. Now, you know, I'm in New York City. Mom, Donnie will, in all likelihood, become the mayor here. Democratic socialists are definitely having a moment. You know, AOC is one of the most popular representatives in our party at this moment, a Democratic socialist as well, Bernie Sanders. My question, I guess, as an extension, it is, you say, you know, I don't care what you call it, Democrat, Republican, conservative, independent, but you are running as a Democrat, and Democrats have been doing very poorly in Florida going so far as, you know, say, I think it was the former State Senate Minority Leader, Jason Pizzo, said the Democratic Party in Florida is dead. Right, right. Well, what do you think about that, generally speaking, and how do you run against that general sentiment?

Because, you know, people all over the country send money to races that they desperately want to win, and it's very top of mind for folks to want to give money to races that they think. are winnable. Yeah, so let me top line this. I've been involved in Florida politics for probably 30 years. A Democratic gubernatorial candidate can win this cycle. Now, I'm not going to be polyana and naive, but I also won't be super granular. Here's what I'll tell you. We are in the midst of a national change environment, a national change environment. We've seen congressional special elections move by 15 or 16 points in Florida. And certainly across the country, we're seeing similar trends in mayor's races in the Wisconsin Supreme Court race and Mamdami's race. People are screaming that there is an affordability crisis that the incumbent class is not paying attention to.

Now, in New York, that's a Democrat on Democrat conversation, right? In Florida, that's a Democrat on Republican conversation, where we have had a Republican supermajority in the legislature and Republican governor for 25 years. We have an insurance crisis in the state of Florida. We have a property tax crisis in the state of Florida. Republicans have been in charge for 25 years. We have an affordability crisis in the state of Florida that is hitting every corner geographically

from Miami to Pensacola, Jacksonville to Tampa. We have an affordability crisis that's hitting every party registration. Doesn't care if you're Republican or Democrat or independent. And so in the midst of a national change environment, in Florida where we have an affordability crisis, if Jolly is the candidate, but more importantly, if our coalition

is the coalition that says, look, we need a state catastrophic, fund to remove natural disaster perils from the private insurance market because there's no longer a market to cover hurricanes and natural disasters because we abandoned climate resiliency decades ago. We can drive down homeowners insurance. We need generational property tax reform. We need to reinvest in public education. Republicans created a school voucher program that is now part of your affordability crisis because we've abandoned public education. We have a voucher program where state money goes to underperforming private schools and your family stuck in the

middle. You sit in traffic for two hours to get to work and you have to pay a $10 toll. You can't live near your work. We have a crisis in Florida. That is how we win. We focus in on that crisis. My opponent, Byron Donald's, will want to make this about Donald Trump and socialism and trans issues. My job, our coalition, is to fight the affordability crisis in the state of Florida. In the end, Jessica, I'll tell you this. The reason Mandami won is because he listened to voters who were screaming that nobody's paying attention to their affordability crisis. Now, his answers aren't our answers in Florida. I disagree with a lot of what Mandami stands for, certainly, but he was a politician who listened to voters saying, please help us. In Florida, voters are saying,

please help us. And Ron DeSantis and Byron Donalds are turning a deaf ear to it. Do you think that you'll be able to effectively thread the needle with Congressman Donald's and his association with Trump, because you're going to have a lot of voters who would essentially be if Trump was on the ballot, split-ticket voters, you would hope. Sure.

So how are you going to be able to effectively do that with Donald's as the candidate? Yeah. This race is not about Donald Trump. Okay. This race is about the affordability crisis in the state of Florida. I'm giving you the answer.

I'm giving everybody else is not to correct you. It is, how do we deal with that? No, no. I'm saying, okay, that that'll be your answer. And I think that that will work for a lot of people, but they have been very effective at turning local races, even one as big as the governor of Florida, into a national issue. And Donald Trump lives there.

That's right. That's right. This is the home of MAGA. Listen, when we win, it may be the biggest political victory we've seen in a very long time because this is the home of MAGA. We know, look, in the last election, it was about a 15-point spread. We're already seeing low single digits in polling in Florida because the moment is meeting us halfway.

But this race has to be about the affordability. crisis. My opponent will want to make it about Donald Trump for exactly the reason you're saying. Here's why the discipline and focus is important. If we focus in on the affordability crisis in Florida, it's how you get Andy Bashir in Kentucky. It's how you get Steve Bullock in Montana. Governor's races are different. Voters perform a little more rationally, right? A U.S. Senate race or a federal race comes down to Donald Trump and Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and Hakeem Jeffries and John Thune or whatever you reflexively identify your. federal politics with. But a governor's race is about the responsible administration of government.

Safe communities, good transportation, good schools, low taxes, property insurance relief. Well, I want to quickly ask you about the national Democrats, though. How have you been welcomed into the fold, you know, the larger party? And are you looking to campaign with any national figures or you're going, you know, all local Florida all the time? Look, I'm going to focus on Florida, focus on the affordability crisis. But I will tell you, what I have never liked about politicians through the years is when they run from their own colleagues and allies. And I'm not going to do that. Look, the conversation around Mandami is an important one. I was on air the night he won and Stephanie Ruhl said to me, isn't this a problem for you? And I said, no, it's not because

Mandami's answers aren't Florida's answers. And I disagree with a lot of them. But this is a Democratic Party that's actually listening to voters who are saying, we need help. And so that's the message. I'm going to focus on Florida. But the reception has been great. And for those who really are very much involved in politics, I'll tell you an observation. This is a very rational Democratic Party right now that understands we need to win so that we can amplify the values and the economy that works for everyone, the government who serves in a place where everyone's welcome. Because if we don't win, we don't get to do any of those things. And so this is not 2018, where there was a circular firing squad around ideology. This is a very rational Democratic

party that knows we're in a crisis, certainly nationally, but in the state of Florida. We need to win if we're going to change our direction. We're going to take one quick break. Stay with us. Searchlight Pictures presents The Roses, only in theaters, August 29th. From the director of Meet the Parents and the writer of Poor Things comes The Roses, starring Academy Award. Award winner, Olivia Coleman, Academy Award nominee, Benedict Cumberbatch, Andy Samburg, Kate McKinnon, and Alison Janney. A hilarious new comedy filled with drama, excitement, and a little bit of hatred, proving that marriage isn't always a bed of roses. See The Roses, only in theaters, August 29th. Get tickets now.

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CBB is the reason you're hearing my voice right now, but due to big, beautiful cuts, the organization announced on Friday that it would be shutting down next year. What's taking its place? If you ask this White House, they might say something like Prager You. What is Prager You on Today Explained? This week on Criminal, in 2008, detectives from the Minnesota Police Department were called to investigate a drive-by shooting. Everything they did was recorded. by a camera crew for a TV show. Those camera people are allowed to ride around in police vehicles.

They're allowed to be on the scene of crime scenes that are very active, that things have just happened. People have just died. Years later, the Attorney General's office would say the TV show had completely misrepresented the case. Listen to our latest episode on Criminal, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back. One of the kind of ground zeroes for the crisis is actually in Florida physically Alligator Alcatraz.

Yeah. Can you talk about your immigration policy, how you're addressing that issue, and frankly, how Alligator Alcatraz was even allowed to be built without the input of the Florida legislature? Yeah. You know what everyone understands? I would say all voters, but it doesn't matter if you're a voter or not. people understand cruelty and they're seeing cruelty. And I step back from the whole issue all together. As a society, why are we celebrating on one side of the aisle the expansion of a detention facility? This is kind of simple. If we're overcapacity in our detention facilities, we build one, but we don't celebrate it. We don't do ribbon cuttings. There's a moral rot right now that somehow we're celebrating cruelty.

So what about the politics of it? If and when I'm elected governor, I will end to San Francisco. his executive order, his emergency order that allowed the state to build this. It's over, it's done. We will return the land to Miami-Dade County, who's the owner of the land that the emergency order allowed the state to take the land from. We'll respect the tribal rights of the Mikisduki Indian population. And we will return to protecting the environment where this was built on the very fragile Everglades. So that's the policy piece. Here's on immigration. The conversation I hope to have nationally is I think Republicans for too long have gotten away with conflating immigration and crime, right? To Republicans speak, immigration is always

criminal. That's wrong. Republicans are fighting communities and going looking for crime. We can be a party in a state that is tough on crime but supports communities. We'll fight crime, but not communities. So I say if you were born here, if you immigrated here, or if you're a Republican politician in Tallahassee who just stole $10 million from our Medicaid program, we're going to be tough on crime. We're going to come for you. But we can do that while we also welcome immigrants. Look, we'll find out. I mean, one of the real scourges of what we're seeing with Alligator Alcatraz is, as always, we don't know who's there. And we know they're making mistakes. And we know many of them, the only, you know, offense they have committed is to try to get a job to earn money

to put food on the table for their kids. I'm not sure that that's where our law enforcement resources need to focus. If someone is here with no criminal record who is simply trying to put food on the table for their family, particularly if they've been doing that for decades. Boy, that's somebody we want here. Now, of course, let's start with the language. Protect the border. Yes, we've had a problem at our border. We need tall walls, but wide gates. We need to welcome immigrants. What's happening in Florida is not unlike what happened in the 1980s. And the mayor of Miami at one point said, if we do not give home to the Cuban refugees, we might as well get rid of the Statue of Liberty. Because who are we as a country if we turn our

back on people in need. I'm still oriented around that kind of compass. I don't know if it's a faith teaching or politics, but if someone wants to come here and create opportunity and abide by our laws, contribute to our economy and our culture, I think we should be a society that welcomes them. I agree. And as you were talking, I was thinking, oh, aren't they just going to call you a squishy, compassionate conservative, but now you're a Democrat. I know it. Look, I won't get away with this, but I don't care about labels. I'm in such a post-ideological space. Our kids are six and four years old. It is a real question for families in Florida. Is Florida a place where you want to raise your family? Can you afford to raise your family? Do you want to raise them in a place where the culture

wars have made people feel unwelcome? A state where maybe our daughter won't have the same rights as our son, where if they choose a different path when it comes to their faith or who they love, that maybe they wouldn't be welcome or they'll look down upon, that's Florida right now. This is a lived experience for my wife and I, certainly, but for millions of Floridians. And so in many ways, it gives me the spine and the steelyness to say, I don't care what you call me. I don't even know that I was looking to run for office ever again in my life. But this is the moment where I know we can be part of a coalition for change in our state, and it's why I know we can win and why I'm excited about it.

You mentioned culture wars. How serious do you think the toll has been? on the Democratic Party and the Democratic brand. And how do you plan on addressing these kind of 80-20 issues where we seem to politically find our way into the 20% even though at a dinner party we're acting all normal? Yeah. Look, I do think there have been some tactical mistakes

along the way for Democrats, but I would also say some party has to fight for equity for all people, defend the marginalized, and work in good faith towards equity for everyone. That's today's Democratic Party. Too many Republican leaders are using bad faith to attack communities and divide us. I think it's okay to say we're a party where everyone's going to be welcome. We want the state of Florida to be a place where everyone is welcome. Now, I would say, if anything, it may be that that's not where voters fully were.

And so you reach this question of, do we lead or do we follow? And I think we always have to be prepared to lead and ready to lead. But if voters are screaming at us that I want to party to talk about my insurance costs in the state of Florida, then we need to be a party talking about the insurance costs. And when we win, we get to put an end to the culture awards. We get to return the books to the classrooms. We get to tell teachers, guess what, you get to teach again. We get to say to voters of color and communities where their franchise has been suppressed, no longer. We're going to work to undo gerrymandering and give you voice in our democracy. All those good things happen if we remain a party on our convictions that say we're going to

fight for equity for all people. But Republicans, too often, have led Democrats and voters into an arena that voters don't even want to be it. And then Democrats follow in and say, okay, let's have this fight here. I don't think it's a matter of changing our values or where we are. I really don't. I disagree with many leading Democrats nationally who are trying to pivot the party. I don't think we need to pivot. I think we just need to focus on what are voters telling us they want solutions to? Voters are telling us they want solutions to the economy. Jessica, I've been, I've probably done 25 town halls. I've been in every corner of the state. I will just mention the question of the trans community has come up one time, one time,

in maybe, say, 5,000 Q&A. Was it a Byron Donald's plant? No, actually, it was actually a super progressive person. No, I don't mean to minimize it. No, it was a super progressive person who said, listen, I'm going to tell you I'm way out here on this whole list of issues. And he listed about 10 and trans was one. But this is where that is a good sample of, it's just not something that voters are talking about. It is what, you know, certain voices in conservative media want to talk about because they know the political impact. Yep. I know that to be true. And I apologize for my colleagues, who are the ones that are doing this to all of us. I imagine that health care is coming up regularly in these town halls as well, especially the cuts to Medicaid that are part of the GOP reconciliation bill.

Yeah. What are your plans to address our health care crisis, both losing your health care, but then also the affordability aspect of the health care issue, which is. massive premiums could go up anywhere for it up to 26 percent as a result of this. The ACA is a wonderful thing, but we know also that still too many people are paying too much for their health care, even with Obamacare. Yeah, yeah. So Florida is one of 10 states that refuse to expand Medicaid. We need to expand Medicaid in the state of Florida. It extends care and particularly affordable care to families who need it. And it also is a net revenue driver to the state, given the allocation of federal share. So the first thing we need to do is fight to expand

Medicaid. Here's also the interesting thing. Depending on your generation, you know, you grew up where Medicaid was a very small program for just a very specific community, those who really could not afford any health care whatsoever. That's not today's Medicaid. Today's Medicaid is affordable health care. And I think where Republicans have missed the moment with their bill is they don't realize that Medicaid provides for over 40 percent, I believe, of childbirth care in the state of Florida. It provides essentially for end-of-life care, right? Seniors in long-term nursing facilities who have no more resources. The Medicaid program supports them. And so if the cuts mean that instead of three nurses on a floor, we now have one, that's a real cut to care for seniors in their most dire moments. And then certainly Medicaid supports families whose incomes fall below a certain line. So I don't want to hear the pro-life Republican Party telling me that somehow, you know, they're there to protect life. No, you're not. Not if you're abandoning funding for childbirth care. If you're abandoning funding for end-of-life care and dignity for our seniors or for families with two kids who can't afford health care. Not only are you turning your back on people who need health care,

but you're also driving up costs in the state of Florida and across the country. And Florida, it starts with expanding Medicaid. Now, I will tell you the answer, and I think Carville said this is right, run on repealing many of those provisions in the bill. But Republicans were smart that many of the provisions of those bills don't happen until after 26. So I'm not sure that the are the issue that will actually be resonating this cycle as much as kind of super voter Democrats see that they will. So then do you think the argument has got to be tax cuts, a balloon deficit, cuts to veterans benefits?

Like, what do you do then with the bill understanding that those cuts are going to come into play afterwards and that also no tax on tips, even though it's on a very small portion of people's salary, that will be in effect and then get sunsetted after the midterms as well. Yeah, look, I think if you're running for federal office, you talk about reversing many of those provisions. In my race, as governor of Florida, it is about the insurance market that has collapsed.

It's about property tax reform. It's about fighting crime, but not communities. It's about investing generationally in a 10-year rebuilding plan for public education. So when it comes to the big bill, it would also just then be in the health care space of expanding Medicaid in the state of Florida. And so that would have to be my focus. I do think, though, it provides an interesting moment for us. And I know this is hard to do in politics. I've had to challenge myself. There are times as Democrats where we should look at some of the Republican provisions and say, you know what, I'm okay with that. Like, that was a good thing. One of the things this bill did is it extended the tax rates for the lowest income owners. We should have done that. But it also extended the tax rates

for the highest income bracket. And look, if we could afford that, great. But I'm not sure we can afford that if the answer is then we're going to cut affordable health care for families who truly need it. So I think it's important to pick apart the bill a little bit, right? The credit for Social Security recipients is important. Look, my mom, I still assist her with some of her tax filings each year. And that is always an issue that kind of seems odd, that Social Security recipients are still paying taxes on a certain amount of their income when Social Security is, you know, the largest share of their income. There are popular provisions. I look at some of the things Republicans have done in Tallahassee where they invested in last mile rural corridors,

a rural renaissance. The Senate Republican leader wanted to spend $200 million. I think that's great. Let's see if we could make it $300 million. So I do think we have to be careful with the language we use. The big beautiful bill abandoned affordable health care for millions of Americans and reflects, I think, values that are not the values that should inform our policy. That's an important conversation to have with voters. Yeah, I would just add some of the cuts to the red tape around small businesses are other plus points that I have been going back to to seem like a normal balanced human being when I'm talking about the bill. We ask all of our guests at the end, what's one issue that makes you rage and one thing you think we should all calm down about?

Who, can I end where I started with faith? Yeah. Look, I, my wife and I are in a group of the Christian community that considers themselves church hurt. Some people will know what that means, others, that'll be odd. But church hurt is, look, I think the main thing in any religion should be the main thing. And so in the Christian faith, it's essentially the crucifixion and the saving grace of the God that we call our Christ. When you get beyond that, when you politicize faith, when you force. a marriage between the Christian Church and the Republican Party, not only is that just wrong,

but you dilute your faith. You dilute your faith. I have a manuscript I've been working on, maybe before I die. I'll finally publish, but it's called Throw Away the Crutch. And it's a message to the church, not to the Republican Party. The Republican Party will co-opt whoever they can to create a majority, right? But for the Christian Church, look, when I supported marriage equality, my point to the church was, you want to own your teachings of faith. It dilutes it when race to government to say, please help us with our teachings of faith. The role of government is ensure that anyone can believe whatever they want, and you have the ability to evangelize and try to change hearts and minds based on your faith teachings. So what makes me rage? Yeah, sure,

I could rage at the political party that did this, but I'm church hurt. I rage a little bit at the church for drawing the Christian community into a marriage with the Republican Party that does not only pervert our politics, it perverts our faith, and it perverts our institutions of faith. And it makes folks like my wife and I wonder every week, what do we do with our family where we want our kids to have a faith compass and to prepare them at an age of majority to make the decisions that are right for them? Boy, that one hits me in the gut. And so maybe it's rage. Look, I would say, what should we all calm down about is maybe the conversation we just had? I know it's hard to push ourselves a little bit. But we can't be reflexive as Republicans, Democrats are independents and just simply look at

the other political party and assign everything they do as being wrong. Sometimes we've got to look for what they're doing is right. And honestly, what it allows us to do is build our own coalition. You know, in Florida, the fastest growing political group are independents. Only 33% of the state are loyal Republican voters in the state of Florida. It's one of the reasons we can win because 67% of the state is available to us. But a large number of those voters want to hear a Democratic nominee for governor that says, yeah, I'm going to fight for the Democratic values of an economy that works, a government that serves, and a state where everyone's welcome. But I'm going to do that with a coalition that's bigger than the Democratic Party. We've got to be unafraid to do that.

Love it. Thank you, Jessica. David Jolly, former U.S. congressman running for governor on the Democratic side of the fence. I also wanted to note your swag is fantastic. first edition first edition maiden voyage everyone should go to your site buy an outfit check out your policies thank you so much for your time thank you jessica great to be with you