Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov - How To Defeat MAGA in Deep Red States

Episode Date: September 12, 2025

Jessica welcomes Jennifer Welch and Angie “Pumps” Sullivan — the fiery duo behind the hit podcast I’ve Had It. They join Raging Moderates to talk about the week’s biggest stories: Trump getting booed in D.C., fallout from Epstein’s infamous “birthday book,” and Kamala Harris finding her political edge. Jennifer and Angie open up about life as progressive women in deep-red Oklahoma, why they’ve embraced ridicule as a weapon against authoritarianism, and what it means to channel the rage and frustration of Democrats nationwide. Plus: why they think Democrats must grow a bigger tent, how they connect with younger voices online, and what really makes them rage. Note: this interview was taped before the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Follow Jessica Tarlov, @JessicaTarlov.  Follow Prof G, @profgalloway. Follow Raging Moderates, @RagingModeratesPod. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody. It's Cam Hayward, your Steelers captain and host of Not Just football. The wait is over. The NFL season is finally here. It's time to get locked in. For the next 18 weeks, we're bringing you everything you need to stay ahead of the game. We're breaking down the Steelers' first game on the season, plus NFL and college football every week. Bringing you face-to-face with current players and legends and getting into stuff that really shapes this game.

You can listen to Not Just Football with Cam Hayward on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. It's game time. Let's go. Hey, guys. Just a heads up that we recorded this conversation, this awesome conversation with Jennifer and Angie. I've had it before the Charlie Kirk assassination. Scott and I have commented on that in a separate video, but just wanted to make sure that you knew that. That's why we are not going to be talking about it. Thanks a lot. Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlove, and I am so excited to have. of my favorite podcast hosts who are not me and Scott. I guess I have to say that, but external, the host of the hugely popular I've had it podcast, Jennifer Welch, Angie, Pumps Sullivan. I feel weird

calling you Pumps, so I'll call you Angie, but I know. I know that's how that works. You guys have a spin-off show now. IHip News. Amazing book. Life is a lazy Susan of shit sandwiches, which I feel like really speaks to the moment that we're in. Thank you guys for joining me. Thank you so much for having us. We're a big fan of yours and see you online all the time doing the Lord's work. And that means a lot for me to say that because I'm an atheist. And in the Bible Belt. So people have told you what that actually means. My favorite is the amount of people who have said, bless your heart to me, thinking, like, as a reform Jew, I don't know what that means. Like, they have just told me to fuck off, basically. Right. So this is so cool. And it's a nice lady hang, which I don't always get to

do. So thank you guys for being with me. And we have a ton to cover. I want to talk about kind of like meta stuff about your show and where you are in life, but also so much news of the day. So I'm going to give you a lazy Susan of shit sandwiches. You can pick. We got a Donald Trump booed out in D.C. at dinner last night. We've got the birthday book, the Epstein birthday book, is out there now. And surprising to me, Kamala Harris goes hard at Joe Biden in the excerpts of her forthcoming book, 107 days, that comes out towards the end of the month. So where do you guys want to dive in? Pumps you go. Well, my thing on the Epstein files, it's disgusting. That book is disgusting. I keep pointing out, they didn't get that book from DOJ. They got it from the Epstein

estate. Yeah. Because DOJ is not turning over in accordance with the congressional subpoena. But what the outrage about it, my big thing is, 99% of everything we know about Donald Trump, it was out there before he was president. And we knew he thought grab it and by the pussy was a good idea. We knew wives were interchangeable, women were interchangeable. We knew he was a liar. We heard him brag about, you know, he owned the pageant so he could see little girls. So none of this really shocks me. The incompetence of the cover-up by DOJ and Donald Trump, because they are so corrupt, that kind of surprises me. How pitiful this cover-up and this corruption is being done.

But what just goes all through me and it just, when Caroline Leavitt gets up there and starts talking about how Democrats are making these victims political props because they don't care about crime when she works for a convicted felon and they don't care about victims of sex crimes, it makes my head explode. It just makes my head want to explode. Yeah, I mean, I've had it with that. to use your show's jargon. And I agree with those sentiments. I did have to just take a moment to really ingest the contents of some of these drawings.

And in particular, and I talked about this with Scott, the one that starts in 1983 with him giving balloons to little girls and ends in 2003 with him getting what seems like a blowjob from one of those girls. You know, I don't want to make this too much about my estrogen, but as a mother, I just felt my whole body sink, you know, like out of the chair, into the floor, down below to wherever that is. And it seems just so clear now that everybody kind of knew that this is what he was doing. And we're not trying to broad brush everybody that fraternized with EPS, you know, I want to be clear about that. But you have a lot of contributions to that book from a lot of. lot of very powerful people who are all joking around about the fact that there are young girls involved in this. Yeah, not only were they in on the jet, they thought it was a joke. They thought it was funny. You could tell they thought it was a knee slapper and it's disgusting. And I too,

I had a just like electricity through my body like sickness when I saw this because this went on for years and they didn't view these girls as people. Yeah, definitely. And then he got a pretty light sentence. I know Alex Acosta is allegedly going to be coming in to testify, but some big questions there. Jennifer, you want to do Trump getting boot in D.C. Do we want to play the audio? Trump is the Hitler of our time. Free D.C. Free Palestine. You know, What's so fascinating about all of the national security Republicans is that Donald Trump went to dinner. And while he was at dinner, which is just for political optics, and he was lured into going to dinner because that's how easy he is to manipulate by a reporter that called him out and said, you haven't been to dinner once. So if you think about how easy it was to dog walk Donald Trump to dinner across the street to the White House, think about how easy it was for Benjamin Netanyahu to strike.

in Qatar. And it's my understanding that they were trying to negotiate a ceasefire. But Benjamin Netanyahu doesn't want that ceasefire. So they bombed it because they don't care about American leadership anymore because American leadership is a joke. While at the same time that a reporter lured him across the street from the White House, Vladimir Putin is sending drones over Poland. And NATO is striking down these drones. And he's with just a trifecta. of absolute abject stupidity and obsequious sycophants in the likes of Tweedled D, Tweedle Dime, and Tweedle Dipshit. And we have Pete Hagsett, the Secretary of War,

who's going to play offense, not defense. Meanwhile, he's doing all this optical bullshit across the street from the White House. Little Marco Rubio, who has just absolutely put on a master class and moral collapse. And then failed drag queen, J.D. Vance. And it's important that we remember that he is. is a failed drag queen because there is documentation that does it because these are the people

that persecute drag queens. So every time we can put their hypocrisy back in their face, I say we do it. We come early. We come often and show the moral collapse of this administration. And we're all going to find out all of these national security Republicans that we used to have the luxury of living in a superpower. And now we have a president that is getting dogwalked by far right dictators like Benjamin Nanyahu and Vladimir Putin. I like it. And I didn't. things that you were going to go there. I thought you were just going to talk about the booing, but you've made it in Article 4 point, which is my favorite swerve that could have possibly happened. I like that because maybe I can use it at work later as well. I'll credit you,

maybe. It goes so fast. Don't bring me up with them. I like dog walking, though. And I think I'm the only one who ever talked about J.D. Vance and the couch on air. So at least I have that to my credit. But I don't want to say that this is how I feel necessarily. But working in conservative media, if I did come out and I said what you just said, which I think is completely correct, I would get the pushback of October 7th happened on Joe Biden's watch and Russia invaded Ukraine on Joe Biden's watch. And there were a few policy failures to say the least in foreign policy during the Obama administration. And Trump doesn't have really a leg to stand on. I mean, it's such a clear line from that summit in Alaska to Putin popping

over to China basically saying, no, this is my guy, right? I called him right after. You know, like when you come home from a date and you call your friend, that's what Putin did with President Xi. And then he went over and we've lost Modi on top of it, which is a huge problem on a whole host of levels. So summit failure. But as Democrats, I feel like we still don't have the national security mantle that it takes too much, I guess, for people to get to the point where they say that we're going to be most trusted on that, even though you can see an escalation in all of these conflicts under Trump. What would you say about that? I would say that when you have the same lobbyists that elected Trump and controlled Trump,

and they also control the Democratic leadership, that's a problem. And you see this manifest itself with the Democratic leadership's failure to endorse Zoran Mamdani. Hakeem doesn't have to agree with him on everything. But, you know, he's not. this moment requires centrist, raging moderates, leftists, progressives to all come together and listen to the voters. New York is clearly more progressive than where we are in Oklahoma City. Hakeem's district voted for Mom Doni two to one. And I think we have to have credible messengers in the party. And right now, we just don't have credible messengers. When you're beholden to the same people that are dog walking, we call Donald Trump kanks, short for kankles.

When you are beholden to the same people that are dog-walking kinks, we feel so hopeless. And this would be such a lay-up, Jessica, for Democrats to start making this argument. And where we are in the Bible Belt, this shit would hit hard. If the Democratic Party came out right now and said, Maga isn't America first, they're Israel first. If they started doing that, it would hit hard in Middle America because most people don't even know where Israel is on a map. Most people don't know where Palestine is on a map. I'm talking about the average Americans, people that kind of lightly traffic in the news a couple of times a week. And they can't make these arguments because they are compromised by the same people that are compromising maggot. And I think I saw a number that APAC donated for Trump, something like $200, $300 million to getting elected. And, you know, if their goal is anti-Semitism, there isn't a bigger incubator for anti-Semitism than a party that wants to whitewash history, dismantle education, attack universities.

That's where Nazism and anti-Semitism and racism and homophobia and misogyny, that's where it all grows. So this is, I feel like we're living in the most short-sighted era in history. And it's just mind-boggling. Yeah. I mean, history has a way of repeating itself, especially if you're ignoring the signals. And, you know, I thought that there were anti-Semitism problems on America's campuses. I'm here in New York City, what went on at Columbia, that Jewish students were blocked from going to the library to Habad, you know, getting into their classrooms. The civil rights infringement.

But, of course, Donald Trump and his team has to take it to another level where they're pulling, you know, billions of dollars of research funding instead of saying, can we work together to make sure that there's a better environment for Jewish students on campus, which I think would have been the. appropriate response, not like having to close down labs and losing our top scientists to countries like China that have basically given an open invitation that they can come set up wherever they want. But you got right into something that I wanted to talk to you guys about. I mean, first and foremost, love the Mamdani interview that you did. And, you know, he's very good. He's very talented. He gets the moment he comes across as incredibly authentic. He speaks like a normal and compassionate human being. And this is a moment in American history where I feel like we all kind of need a hug and to feel like somebody gives a shit about us. And Mom Doni does that

and leading with affordability. And you see that with, you know, James Talarico, Mallory McMorrow, these new voices that are popping up in the Democratic Party. But you bring up APEC and you talked about Hakeem Jeffries and Schumer. He just had another constructive meeting with him. And I imagine these endorsements are going to come. But, Angie, you asked Mom Dani about this, you know, about your message to Jewish New Yorkers because a lot of us do have concerns about, you know, past affiliations. You know, he was on with Al Sharpton and he had to back off of it, basically, and say, I have spoken to enough people in the Jewish community to know that certain terms mean something very dangerous to them, like River to the Sea and Globalize the Intifada. It's going to be good enough to win the election for sure. And I know that, and he got 45, 46 percent of the Jewish vote.

But where is the future, I guess, for the party vis-a-vis Jews if so many candidates and so many people that have prominent roles in democratic politics are so – certainly anti-Apaq doesn't matter. That's a pack. But, you know, saying it's a genocide, right, using very aggressive terms that a lot of people like me who think that Netanyahu's got to go, war criminal, starving people in Gaza. but I don't call it a genocide and feel that oftentimes what happened on October 7th gets forgotten. I agree with you about, you know, it was a horrible attack on October 7th. The thing that is in the back of my mind about October 7th is that, according to very credible reports, Benjamin Netanyahu was aware that these attacks were going to happen, and he did not stop them because he was in trouble politically.

So set that aside. I look at Israel and the people of Israel is two different things, just like I look at MAGA and Donald Trump, different than all American citizens. And I think that we have to, as Democrats, listen to our base and under 10% of the Democrats support continuing to bomb Palestine. That cannot stand. I look at it and I think it's ethnic cleansing, it's genocide, they're starving children. So I think the A-PAC thing is you can walk in shoe gum. You can't take money to support Israel when your base doesn't support what's going on in Israel and funding Israel. So I think we have to make the distinction, like that I make a distinction when I go abroad or to, you know, blue states, I'm like, hey, just because I'm from Oklahoma, I'm not in on this maga ship.

I know everybody else is, but I am not. I think we have to make that distinction that there's a difference in Israel and the government. of Israel. They're two different things. 100%. Yeah. And the Israelis themselves, no. I mean, they march constantly to get rid of it. Right. And I want to say that as it pertains to Jewish safety and a rise in anti-Semitism, I don't cherry pick which groups and which rise in hatred. I don't quantify them. I see a rise in racism, overt racism. I see a rise in anti-Semitism. I see a rise in misogyny. I see a rise in homophobia, especially where we live. And it's always been pretty racist in the Bible Belt, but it's getting really, really bad. And I think as a progressive person, you can't quantify those things. All of those things live together. And interestingly, Jessica, as an atheist Democrat in the Bible Belt, the people who I found the kindest, most progressive, open-minded thinkers in my life

were the very small percentage of Jewish people that live in Oklahoma City. And I would go to a Democratic fundraiser for some politician that lost, that was running locally, and it was me, and a bunch of Jewish folk. And they were progressive and fought so hard for progressive causes. And so I do hope that credible messengers that are Jewish, like John Stewart and others, continue to rise up, because when you have human rights groups, Israeli human rights groups, calling it a genocide, I think that we need credible Jewish voice. to help us because it's a difficult thing to talk about because I feel like the narrative holds people emotionally hostage that if you speak out to what you're seeing and what you're hearing

and what you're reading, then you're going to be called an anti-Semite. And as a progressive person, you don't want to be called that. And so I feel like we need to have more conversations, civilized conversations about it because what happened on October 7th was horrible. I have children that are that age that go to music festivals and concerts. And, you know, and And what is happening right now is horrible, and this thing is very gray. But in general, right now, I think the American public does not want to spend the amount of money that we're spending to a far right maniac and war criminal Benjamin Netanyahu. And here's the problem. You have grifters like Marjorie Taylor Green, who she's not short-sighted, and she has surprised me with

her ambition. She is thinking beyond MAGA. And she hangs out with Steve Bain. And she hangs out with Steve Bannon all the time, who is a crazy diabolical political strategist. Who's right a lot of the time, though. It kills me. Yeah, he's a stew. Yeah, he's got some bangers. Yeah. And she's starting to position herself as this is in America first. And she's a grifter. And she is, she truly is an anti-Semite. Her not supporting Israel is because she's a classic Jew hater. That's what that's about. But there's a vacuum in middle America and flyover states, when a politician just starts casually using America First, just like Donald Trump does, that it's going to fill that void. And so I'm hopeful that the Democrats can have some

moral clarity on this and make a space for all of these human rights to live together. That would be great. And I think the way that you're talking about this is one of the reasons that the two of you have become kind of avatars or mascots in the nicest possible way for the party because you're embodying the fight that the base wants to see from our electeds and from our messengers. Angie, what has that been like? Because your location is unlikely to have created two women like you. Or as far as I see it from my perch in downtown Manhattan. So I realize that's probably a very obnoxious coastal thing to say. But you're not wrong. How many of you are there. More than you would think. And Jennifer always says, and she's right, like, liberals in red

states are built different because they fought it their whole lives. But I grew up, like my parents, I mean, they snort Jesse Waters, the five every day. The only person my mother has even been remotely interested in the podcasting is Jessica Turloff. And I'm like, okay, at least I know she's getting a little bit. There's something factual going on. Maybe she's never going to do anything about it. And to this point, she hasn't. But I grew up. evangelical Christian, diehard Republican. And so I look at that and I see everything that they tried to tell me was what the uses of Christianity were, which was kindness and helping people and not discriminating. It turns out, as I look back as an adult, it taught me to be

entitled, judgmental, hateful, and racist. And so I was in. the death star in terms of I believed it. I was so guilty of saying, why do I give a shit? It doesn't affect me. I'm not gay. Why do I give a shit? I'm white. I mean, I don't, you know, all of those tropes that you hear, I got that. And when you remove yourself from that thinking and you start thinking critically, which I never did, which maybe I was 40 when I started critically thinking. And I mean, I went to law school without critically thinking. So you look at it and you just, it's, it's just abhorrent, and I'm like, bring it. I want to fight about it. Because if you can stand there and tell me, what would Jesus do? Oh, he'd be happy to send immigrants to Alligator, Alcatraz,

then you have a moral failing. It's not about politics anymore. And that's happening in my family. It's tough. I mean, the amount of people that I talk to who have this going on in their family. I mean, I have an uncle who voted for Trump this time on the basis of Israel. But our biggest fight before then was Bernie Sanders versus Hillary, which I can totally. handle. We're going to take a quick break. Stay with us. Hey, box media listeners. It's Mike Murphy. What happens when you get two political hacks who've been running campaigns against each other for forever and had a world-class journalist? You get a big bar tab. That's what you get. This David Axelrod telling you you also get a great

podcast called Hacks on Tap. This is John Heilman. I'll tell you what we give you a weekly podcast that covers the news, the headlines, and also the longer-term friends driving our politics from the perspective of the three guys who've seen it all from the campaign trail to the forward cabin of Air Force One. Join us every week on Hacks on Tap on the Vox Media Podcast Network. Hello, Daisy speaking. Hello, Daisy. This is Phoebe Judge from the IRS. Oh, bless, that does sound serious. I wouldn't want to end up in any sort of trouble. This September on Criminal, we've been thinking a lot about scams. Over the next couple of weeks, we're releasing episodes about a surprising way to stop scammers.

The people you didn't know were on the other end of the line, and we have a special bonus episode on Criminal Plus with tips to protect yourself. Listen to Criminal wherever you get your podcasts. And sign up for Criminal Plus at thisiscriminal.com slash plus. More and more students are going to college in the South. The numbers of kids from the north heading south has increased, I think, 88% over about a decade. What's behind the shift? Maybe it's football. People look at it as a sport, and it is, but it's a huge commercial for the university.

Who doesn't want to go to a school where everybody's screaming and yelling and full of school spirit? Maybe it's Greek life. The southern schools have become sort of like the Olympics of Sorority Rush. Or maybe it's something else. entirely. They're significantly cheaper than private schools, even when you figure in merit aid. Find out why America is shifting South on the latest episode of Explain It to Me. New episodes, Sundays, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back. In I

One of your recent viral moments, Jennifer, when you were on CNN, you really gave it to them about what life looks like under a real MAGA agenda. If somebody who lives in a red state, let me just tell you what MAGA supermajorities get you. We're 50th in education. We are 50th. The worst in the whole country for women to live. We're poorer. Worst health care. And if you look at the bottom 10 states in the United States of America, they are all MAGA superma.

majorities. These policies hurt people. They use people's faith to lure them in and say, oh, we're family values, but then they don't vote to help women have children. They don't vote for health care. They don't vote for child care. They demean the poor. I live in a... I mean, first of all, well done. Thank you. It's great to see that put together and also being database, because I love... It's the easiest way to win, right? Because the facts don't care about your feelings. And this is just the brass tax. Do you think that there is kind of a quiet revolution going on amongst people who supported Trump or they're realizing that the results are no good when you live under a full Republican regime?

I think there is a quiet revolution going on, particularly with women, which is why I think you see such what used to be fringe attacks on women coming mainstream. and I'm talking about Pete Hegseth retweeting his pastor in a video that said, we need to do away with the 19th Amendment all of Christ all of the time. Jessica, this is anecdotal, but I have seen some rich-ass women that I thought for sure

were Republicans, for sure. And you know, when you follow people on social media and they follow you back, their comments are kind of prioritized on Instagram, so I've seen these grandmas whose husbands are like in the oil and gas industry,

commentary, commenting on I've had it stuff, like going hard in the paint. And I'm like, what is going on? And I think that people that never had to be political before, that lived in the luxury of all of the human rights advancements and civil rights advancements for women, for gay people, they got to live in the luxury of all of that. And they were rich and didn't really have to fight a big fight. They're seeing this happen. and they are in the political arena now because they care. So I think that is happening. There are for sure. They're Maga cultists, like Pumps is saying like her family. Like there is, there's no turning that around. I wish the Democrats would do a better job at branding red states

for what they are. Because if MAGA policies work, our governor Kevin Stitt will tell you, we're a top 10 state. That's a lie. We're a bottom five state. After he won his second term, Jessica, he got on TV live and said, I dedicate every square inch of the state to Jesus Christ. Since the dedication to his Lord and personal savior, we have dropped from 48 in education to 50th. We have dropped from the 48th state for women to live. Now we're dead last. And you see this declining everywhere, except for one area, the oil and gas industry. And I wish that Democrats would go after this guy, his whole ethos is Jesus Christ as his Lord and Personal Savior. Then Kevin Stitt, why do you support the people that accumulate wealth? Because your Lord and Savior spoke out against the accumulation of wealth.

And I think Democrats need to start attacking Christian nationalists where they are and they've always shied away from it forever. And here's why I think that. I was raised by atheists in the Bible Belt. And what I always saw here that happened with this Christian nationalism happened before Trump. But I was always comforted in knowing that people in the coasts and the Democratic Party were going to protect us from the worst impulses of the Christian nationalists. Now it's mainstream. They're tongue talking in the White House. You've got Paula, whatever her name is. Paula White.

Like five times married. She's tongue talking and doing all this stuff. And it's important that people are. on the coasts and in big cities realize this is just an extension of the KKK. Like, they never went anywhere. They just reorganized, and now they're megachurches that take Venmo. And I think that Democrats often govern with assumption politics. We assumed Trump wouldn't get reelected.

We assume nobody will want to make homosexuality illegal or remove women's rights to vote. That's crazy. Well, we need to start assuming that they're going to do what they say they're going to do. Look at what they did with Roe. Well, yeah. And I mean, it's so frustrating as someone who spent too much time in a library that this was all in a book called Project 2025. And it was resonant on the campaign trail for a while. And then for some reason, we decided that we would stop talking about this thing. And it was the greatest gift that they got. Even Tony Furbutsio, their pollster, said that. I totally agree. I would add to the mix that whoever runs the DHS Twitter account also is a, has some very outdated views, let's say, or Christian nationalist views. That's horrible. It's crazy.

It's crazy. And you see all the comments, and it's getting tossed around in our world. And I think are people who support the Department of War rebrand or whatever and think Christy Nome is, you know, Ice Barbie is the best or whatever we're supposed to call her? Like, are they not a little concerned about what's coming out of government-run accounts? Well, okay, I'm going to ask you this question because I feel like you would. know better than I, like these small government Republicans, governments and everything, libraries, now we're taking people off the street. Is it just, is it lost on them that that's a shift?

No, I think, well, and in your bedroom, which they were. Oh, always been in your bedroom. Yeah, but now like really in your bedroom. I don't think that it's lost on them. I think what has happened is that people, and it is natural to do this, have just made a hierarchy of needs or wants. And I hear this all the time at work. You know, I'll say something like 70% of the people that ICE has detained have no criminal conviction and 47% don't have a criminal conviction or even pending charges. If you want to use pending charges as, you know, a segue to criminal convictions. And I just say, you let millions of people into the country. Right. And that did happen under the Biden administration. It was cleaned up a lot in the final year. But that's what happened. And it's

that back and forth constantly, and people have, to some degree, memory hold things that they don't like about someone that I see as a cult leader. But ultimately, they feel that they are making a Sophie's choice in all of this and that there are certain things that happened under Democratic leadership that are just unforgivable. And so they can turn a blind eye to it. Now, do I think that we're going to win the midterms? Yeah, I feel pretty good about that because I think when you come for people's health care and you give a tax cut to the richest Americans and make the average Americans life $2,400 more expensive on an annual basis, like, that's not a great way to campaign. But I do worry about 2028. I mean, for all the reasons you guys are talking about,

like, where's the fire, right? Where's the passion and how are people going to be able to talk about these issues in a way that animate folks? But also that they'll keep going back and say, well, you do this. Well, it's like, I have a three-year-old. It's the same, you know, she's like, well, you do that, mama. And I'm like, yeah, I did do that. You know, I feel like, the American politicians' default setting seems to be fighting each other, proving the other side wrong, proving the other side right. And when you look at this Ukrainian immigrant that was murdered in North Carolina, this is a prime example of bipartisanship that should come together to discuss funding mental health. Did we do the right thing by for-profit prisons? Or has that

been bad for us? We can't ever have any bipartisan conversations. And, you know, Fox is going bananas over this story. But in Tulsa, Oklahoma, just two or three weeks ago, a white man stabbed a woman on a bus. I saw that, yeah. Yeah. And so I don't know the facts of both of these cases, but I would think that both probably mental illness, can we work together on lifting people out of poverty? But it seems like we can't talk about anything. When Kamala was running, Jessica, a kid that worked for us, a young black man that had worked for me for five years, his name was Javier. He was shot and murdered last October 12. And it was devastating. devastating for us. And the person that killed him had a history, a violent history. And I had the

feeling he should have never been out. And I understand that. And so, you know, in looking at crime, we need to protect all victims of crime. And it happens to black people. It happens to white people. White people kill white people. White people kill black people. This just constant hyper cherry picking which crimes matter and which crimes don't. bother me. But what bothers me the most is I think it's super fucking rich that MAGA say that they care about crime when Trump's very first thing that he did in Trump 2.0 was pardon violent insurrectionists who one by one are getting re-arrested again. So my whole thing the Democrats need to do is start saying the Republicans are not credible messengers and call out that,

which like you do, you call out the hypocrisy all the time. I just don't see that Democrats doing that right now. No. I feel like it's getting better. Like, the footing is being found. And some of that is coming from these new candidates versus people who have been in elected office for a long time. And there's a freedom that comes with youth. And I think that you guys showcased that really well on the show, having Mom Donnie, but also that like Hassan Piker.

I thought you were about to say we were young. I know. That's what I was saying. I was like, oh, my gosh. Jessica's blind. No. Well, I'm wearing. Heavy glasses, but I, no, I see, you guys look fabulous. Thank you. But also, you know, the fact that Hassan Piker and Dean Withers want to come hang with you guys is saying something about the spirit that you're embodying and that you also want to loan your platform to young people that are doing exciting and bold things that could help move the party forward and move the country forward. What has that been like to kind of be like?

Gen Z mom gods. You know what? It was an unintended consequence. Like we started the podcast talking about, you know, I hate it. I've had it with gender reveal parties. I have always been a political. Yeah. Ridiculous.

I have always been a diehard political junkie. And I've always stood up probably obnoxiously around all of my Christian Republican peers that I don't support what you support. I support these gay people. and I also vote for them, and I support black people, and I've always been pretty loud about it. So it came out in the podcast really quickly. A couple of years before we started the podcast,

Pumps kind of had deconstructed her faith and switched political parties. So it's a real pleasant surprise that my most religious Republican friend has become my partner in crime on this, and I think her story is that important. But when we first went on tour and we had this, like, VIP meet and greet,

I was shocked as shit that the people in line were our kids' age. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't. I'm like, oh, my God, we're actually kind of cool. Right. The young people like us. Do your kids like you or just your kids' friends? I would say my kids are profoundly uninterested.

And what's so funny is my oldest, who he always says, he's like, and he's like earnest about this. He's like, you know what just gets me? is that, like, people want to sit around and listen to you and Jennifer talk. I've heard that my entire life. I can't imagine anything worse. But, I mean, they're very supportive. They're just not that interested. My kids are both, like Dylan, my oldest son, he's in law school now.

He, I saw him Piker partially raised him. And it was because of him that he was like, yes, you need to connect with him. My youngest son is the one that turned me on to Dean Withers, mom. you need to have Dean Withers on. So in both of those instances, with all of the bar stool and Joe Rogan and the Tate brothers, what a comfort that this is where my children's algorithm is feeding them. And so I don't think my kids listen to the podcast. I think they follow it.

They listen to the close. But they've actually given me really good feedback about who to invite on his guests saying these are the voices you need to amplify. And so I think it's really cool. And I think it's going to take a coalition of generations of different degrees. of liberalism. I think leftists need to embrace centrist. I think centrist, Hakeem Jeffries, needs to embrace a leftist in Mom Donnie and say, we agree on the gist. We agree on the gist of everything. He won. And so I think that's what it's going to take. And I hope that we can be a

part of organizing that. But I think that you become a credible messenger by also calling out your own party. You can't just be a hack. No. The hackiness, it works for a lot of likes on a clip, but it doesn't get you particularly far. And I've noticed, especially with Jensian millennial consumers or younger millennial ones, that they're just like not interested. Like, you have to have some spin on the talking points at least, because if you sound like you're straight out of DNC Central casting, like no one disliked more than Ken Martin right now within the party. I feel bad saying that. He seems like a very nice fellow. But the fighting spirit is not coming through yet. And we desperately want to win. So the raging mom.

It's version of what have you had it with is what's one thing that makes you rage and one thing you think we should all calm down about. So, Angie. Rage about the Supreme Court. I'm enraged. I feel personally betrayed and hurt because I had idealized them in law school. So it's sickening to see the judicial system undermine and just completely withdraw from any type of clarity or enforcing the rule of law. one thing not to get too worried about um kind of get worried about everything like a national thing or just a personal it could be literally like it could be you know mine is calm down about people flipping you off when you're driving because i kind of dig it i like it when somebody you like the energy i'm like good for you i'm just like when they honk and flip me off i'm like the passion that's really good my mom who i'm very close with it and a door is not a very good driver and my sister lives in los angeles and you was one of those like your exit is over here and

she's like in the left lane and somehow like on the 405 gets there and cut off a bunch of people. And one of them got off to follow her and pulled up next to her and said, why would you have done that? Like followed her into a Los Angeles neighborhood. No, that's scary. Yeah. Hi, Mom. Jennifer, rage, calm down. Okay.

My rage is I have had it with people that enjoy multiculturalism and then don't vote for the people. in their lives that bring them culture. I'm talking about white ladies in Oklahoma City that have a gay hairdresser and then they go and triple Trump and talk about voting for Trump in front of these people who are terrified right now. I've had it with the racism of white people that want to go enjoy NBA basketball games, football, and they just don't have it in them to think about how much more difficult it is to come out of those neighborhoods because of the way the system is set up. So basically I've had it with a lack of intellectual curiosity that can make you a better person. And everybody needs to calm the fuck down on the left policing everybody's language.

In a viral rant that I had, I said fat ass. Get your fat asses out of a Mexican restaurant. And then they come in, you didn't have to body shame. You didn't have to body shame. Get the fuck over it. Get over it. We're red state liberals. We're fucking built different.

We're not going to let you. police us out of these petty little things. If we agree on eight out of ten things, call it good and move on down the road. I've had it with the policing on the left. I totally. I mean, I thought you were going to go with like undocumented versus illegal because fat ass just seems descriptive in the right way. I don't know if that was part of your cracker barrel rant. It was. It was the cracker barrel. It's not limited to the cracker barrel. And it's just fun to call Donald Trump a fat ass. Right. Like you can't take that from us. It's like get his fat ass out of it. Let us have fun.

It's also how he talks. The funniest part to me is when people who excuse the most disgusting language out of an American president's mouth that we know on tape. The founding fathers made a total potty mouth. I have no idea. But he talks like this and you're upset that I said, whatever, fat ass or something like that. You know, I thought we're supposed to tell it like it is. And some people are fat. And that's okay.

And if you're on a weight loss journey, I hope that goes well for you. that's a good calm down about. I loved this. Thank you so much for coming on. I loved it. I'm so happy to connect, and we'd love to have you on our podcast, too. Amazing. I'll think of my eye. I've had it. I've had it with a lot of things. I would think you would. You know, obviously, you know, the world in which I exist is more conservative leaning, but you guys have really broken through across the political spectrum and done that from a fundamentally liberal place. And I think that that's really special and speaks to

the power of your words and your heart and your communication style. And I've loved to see it. You know, our politics is too dominated by people sitting in New York and D.C. and Los Angeles in San Francisco and getting a perspective from flyover country, I think is invaluable. So keep on. I love it. Thank you, Jessica. Thanks for having us. Thank you.