Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov - How Trump and Billionaires Bend the Rules (And Get Away With It) — ft. Pablo Torre

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

Big news! We’ve been nominated for a Webby Award for Best News & Politics Podcast! Now it’s time to bring it home — and we need your help.  Cast your vote HERE. Jessica Tarlov sits down with investigative journalist Pablo Torre — host of Pablo Torre Finds Out — to break down the hidden power structures shaping everything from sports to politics. From billionaire team owners bending the rules to Donald Trump’s latest legal and political maneuvers, Torre connects the dots on how influence really works behind the scenes. They dive into prediction markets and potential insider trading, the culture wars playing out through sports, and the growing role of money and media in shaping public opinion. Plus: Is there really an “Epstein class” operating above the rules? And are we getting more transparency — or just better at hiding corruption in plain sight? #trump #uspolitics #politics #scottgalloway #jessicatarlov #republicans #gop #republicanparty #democrats #democraticparty #congressnews #epsteinclass #pablotorre #NBA Follow Jessica Tarlov, @JessicaTarlov  Follow Prof G, @profgalloway  Follow Raging Moderates, @RagingModeratesPod  Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@RagingModerates  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Jessica Tarlov, and I'm so pumped to have Pablo Tori here. The host of Pablo Tori finds out, what is it, three Emmy nominations. But who's counting, Ms. Taralov? Who's counting at this point? You definitely are, and I am to make this intro as flashy as possible. It's so cool to have you here. Oh, thank you so much. External validation is a poison I love to drink.

So thank you so much for having me and for stating all. the things my mom wants me to say even louder than I already do. Yeah, I mean, I'm a Jew, so I totally understand about the moms that want to talk about all the accolades all the time. But, no, it's really exciting. I've been, you know, consuming you in a not creepy way for a very long time. Likewise. Like, allow me to say, as much as my mom is disappointed that I haven't gotten to med school

or law school, doing a show like this with you really is something that I appreciate. So I appreciate that. If you aren't already, make sure to subscribe to our YouTube page to stay in the loop on all political news. I want to start off by talking about the blend of your world and my world. So you do these incredible investigations and the aspiration one into Steve Bomber, who owns L.A. Clippers, former head of Microsoft, Rich's owner in the league, was paying his star, Kauai Leonard through essentially a shell company to get above the salary. cap. So you got an extra $28 million. I think it was. And, you know, you really blew the roof off of the story. Got a lot of ire from the billionaire class, to say the least. And it feels very similar to

what's going on in politics today, not only the straight up comp between what bomber did and how super PACs and dark money works, but also this world in which billionaires seem to get away with whatever they want. Can you talk a little bit about the relationship between the two worlds? Yeah, I think about this all the time now. The question of accountability and how does it get imposed and who gets to matter when it comes to, oh, there's a report or there's something resembling shame that a really wealthy, powerful person should feel. And in this case, sports is a fascinating sort of like laboratory for it because a guy like Steve Bomber, you know, it's interesting when he was running Microsoft and he was the CEO at the time of the, you know, I would say most infamous at that point, anti-competitive scandal in the history of the U.S. government and our country.

He was so unmoved, I would say, by the idea that you must be regulated and your monopoly must be broken up. Sports is fascinating because there are lots of the same desires of, wait a minute, we're the biggest and the richest. Steve Bomber is the richest owner in sports by orders of magnitude in the world. He basically is richer than all the other owners combined. And so the question that he is asking himself, according to my reporting, is, again, why can't I use all of my powers to their full extent? Why am I being regulated and suppressed by lesser beings?

And in sports, because he's a basketball fan, in sports, because he can't just buy the thing he wants the most because there are rules around competition that in sports, we are, we are sincere in our cliches about fair play, right? He has to answer for this stuff. You know, it was fascinating to see Steve Balmer, the aforementioned guy who at that point had $150 or so billion. It was fascinating to see him go to Bristol, Connecticut to sit down with ESPN the day after this reporting that I published came out. And he did it because he knows how important the rules are in sports, or at the very least, he knows how much he's supposed to care about the performance of caring about the rules. And so if only, if only in politics, there was that level

of sort of like built-in mechanism of public attention. Now, the question, the follow-up question, of course, is will there be punishment? And so there is, there is, there is the question of should he care about this clearly yes and people will ask about it. The secondary follow-up is now will the institution, which is empowered to punish him, in this case, the NBA, which is to say his own employees in a sense, will they actually do the thing that will provide anything resembling accountability? Yeah, I mean, you say that there are mechanisms there in the NBA and Adam Silver has, as the commissioner, a lot of latitude, right, and what gets enforced and what doesn't. But bringing this out to like a larger American question, we are supposed to be governed by laws. And the court system is supposed to be a check, right?

And Congress is supposed to be a check on the executive as well. But that shift really sailed a while ago. And I'm thinking about things like, you know, a judge just halted Trump's plan to build the ballroom. So now you just have a big dug up mess, right, on the lawn and, you know, following where that goes. But it really doesn't feel like there's much account. in this moment whatsoever for sports and certainly for our politics. Yeah, I think what you're seeing in sports as this metaphor for politics is public demand for accountability being expressed in ways that, frankly, a lot of mainstream institutions

are not necessarily encouraging due to various conflicts of interest. But then the question of, well, who's going to do the punishing? Who's going to meet that out? Look, I was studying reporting on the outside independent investigation that the MBA has started with Wachtell Lipton, an incredibly well-regarded law firm. And what the various former employees of this tree-planting carbon credits shell company have told me is that they're not being asked by that firm. At least five of them have not been asked by that firm about Steve Blomber directly. And so there is this thing of like, well, there are fall guys according to this logic as well, Right. We're not going to touch the big man, but we might get to have someone lower on the org chart take the fall for him, if that. But it's, look, it's depressing. It's depressing to live in an era in which the owners of these teams are richer than ever from industries like tech that are less accountable than ever. And I think it all redounds to this notion of people feeling like their heirlooms, whether it's, I don't know, whether it's the emotional,

they have to the premise of like, ah, we're a country with laws. We're a civil society. Or it's, hey, in sports, you've got to play by the rules. It's depressing to not immediately know that those things are being prioritized when you're paying money into a system that is effectively telling you we're going to care about these things. Absolutely. And the comparison that pops up right away to me from the language that you're using is what's going on with the Epstein files. And you've talked about the Epstein files. on your show. We just had Julie K. Brown on Raging Moderates, you know, the pioneering journalist who's

been on this beach. She's unbelievable. And not going to lie, it was pretty depressing. Hearing her talk about her hopes or what's realistic to think could happen in terms of accountability because they're definitely not touching the Steve bombers or like the Trumps of the world in this. But they don't even have a fall guy. They have like one fall woman, but she earned them.

that, right? Sitting in prison, otherwise it's nothing. And what a, what a prison it is, right? I know. The sort of club med, right, idea there. Look, and this is a, the Epstein files to me are also like a sports story in real ways. I mean, it was interesting to see Bill Gates after the first, I guess it was months ago now, but like that wave in which he was really now a protagonist in the files, the first public appearance he made was sitting next to his partner at Microsoft Steve Bomber at a Clippers game. That was the first place he was like, I'm going to be out in the world again. And what I'm reminded of, and we also interviewed a former three-time Democratic congressman, Tom McMillan, the six-foot-ten-ish guy in the video where he's walking in with Epstein, shaking hands with Trump at Mar-a-Lago.

We interviewed him on the show. And it was an uncomfortable interview. I'm very glad we did it. But it was tense and awkward at times. And it reminded me that sometimes the only thing we can hope for is some notion of public reaction that feels me. maybe like we're imposing something like shame. Because, again, the legal recourse is not necessarily available or close to guaranteed. So what happens when you don't have the repercussions that you're outlining?

Even though Julie K. Brown has been doing incredible work like this, as well as other journalists who are on the story now as well, what might you get at best? And it's the idea that when you talk about this public figure, you've got to mention this stuff now. And is that enough? Is that nourishing, you know, when we're starving for something like consequences? Yeah, I mean, the line in the Wikipedia entry, I guess, is something. But probably not for the highest ranking people. What you're describing, you know, makes me think of last weekend was no King's protest, round three, eight million people out, 3,300 rallies across the country.

We saw, you know, the brave people of Minneapolis. They got ice out, essentially. they showed up enough in freezing cold temperatures to advocate for their rights and for the rights of people who are here illegally, too. Do you feel like we are seeing a broad-based swell of people demanding change or something better? Or do you still feel like it's too quiet? You know, it's been really encouraging, maybe because the bar has been on the floor. It's been so encouraging to see people demand both consequences as well as journalism. I think that's something to unite all of this, something that I've been just feeling, you know, to your first initial question, is that it has never been easier for a very wealthy and powerful person to hide the reality of what they're actually doing.

And I think about this, of course, in all the ways that are obvious in our politics, all the ways in which this administration has been using, I mean, from cryptocurrency to, shell companies to all these other mechanisms that don't require disclosure, the prediction market insider trading epidemic, all of that stuff. It's really easy to get away with opacity. But over and over again, like the lesson I've learned by doing my little show has been, my God, we're underserving the public appetite that wants to see something like a reckoning. And so look, the No King stuff, which is orders of magnitude beyond. I think what I expected at the outset, and I simply say that because numbness and something like resignation,

you know, that tends to follow cynicism. And I think if nothing else, the pendulum has been pushed and abused to the point where they have gone too far. The Epstein class, broadly speaking, has gone too far. And you're looking at, frankly, the, the partards, the partards that this sort of ruling class has hoisted themselves upon, they're some of the most on the nose classic examples of just like comic book corruption. We're talking about pedophilia. We're talking about a lack of judicial accountability. We're talking about all of the obvious things around the funneling of money in excess of any previous standard.

of like, well, how much is being one and lost secretly? It might be billions of dollars in coordination with foreign governments. I mean, that's the heat check that I think we're watching happen. And that's the thing that we're watching, you know, explode in the streets of this country. It's so weird how this stuff that's the most obvious and out front feels the hardest to deal with. Like, you know, stab me in the front versus the back. Like the front appears to be more different. to prosecute than the kind of work that, you know, you're doing or you spend a year looking

into something, right? Yeah. I mean, there's also, I also think about the, the bed of nails metaphor, you know, when there are so many scandals, like, how does any of them puncture any one person? And Trump himself is the greatest embodiment of this. Like, he can just lie across a bed of a thousand scandals. But something that I like to remind myself about is that, you know, I think that. think we are for better and often for worse, we're living in a pendulum of a civil society.

And we will see the physics of this demand a counterbalancing reaction. But structurally, you know, and you see this all the time. I hear you talk about it all the time. Structurally, I think we need to have a level of alarm that is still not in direct proportion. It's still being underweighted compared to, it's one thing to say, ah, the public attitude demands change. just another thing to say, and now we got to rebuild institutions that have been actively, you know, suicide bomb from the inside out. Not just rebuild, reform. Like, we have to burn it down too.

And I think that's something, you know, as a Democrat that I've really struggled with and to communicate with lawmakers who are like, we're going to go back to how it was. Like, we'll be respected on the world stage. And I'm like, yeah. Like, it wasn't that great before for people, especially for poor people. in America who are telling you, like, they want an arsonist with a D on their shirt or an R on their shirt. And they're going to pick whoever is going to make the most change. Yes. And, you know, it's, that's a way better way to put it. I'm the thing that I was thinking about also with, of course, like this FBI and this Epstein files investigation,

um, look, this administration is the dog that caught the car, right? They ran on, we're going to tear down the system. You are anti-political, not just apolitical, but anti-political. We will be your avatar. We're going to do all the things that the populist will of the people has long demanded. And it turns out they caught the car, they got it, and the car turned out to be full of Epstein files. And they were like, oh, no, we don't want to open the door of the car now. And so, look, I think it's really important to your point for Democrats, for people on the left, people who are just simply not associated with this administration to also hold their own people accountable because the credibility question, we are at an inflection point. And so if there are, and there certainly are,

lots of Democrats in here, I'm not opposed to bring in Bill and Hillary done under, of course, non-radiculous sorts of conditions. I'm not opposed to that, but it must also clearly be Trump as well. It must also clearly be Les Wexner and Leon Black as well. I think that if anything else, we have a moment to say, yeah, I'm also here to reform and tear down the system. And as proof, we're going to reform the people that also we didn't love who are perpetuating the same system. Absolutely. And I think part of that tear it down or showing that you're really serious about change links to the prediction markets. that you mentioned. So it seems like, you know, this is just a massive hub for insider trading.

You know, anytime Trump is going to do something vis-a-vis Iran, you know, you see the spikes going around and someone's getting rich and the people who are supposed to investigate it are actually resigning because they won't even be able to carry out their work and maybe they're better, you know, served on the outside. I know you had Chris Murphy on to talk about this. Can you to tell the raging moderates audience a bit about what you think is going on with these prediction markets, and if you think there's any chance for regulation? Yeah, I mean, this has been an ongoing subject of our coverage because it's fascinating and deeply corrupt. Sports betting is obviously like a huge issue. It's like 90% sports betting still, I mean, which kind of gives away the game, you know.

It's a, if nothing else, economically, it's a way for sports betting to happen and to circumvent state, state laws. The CFTC is so fascinating as an institution because this federal agency has said, we are going to regulate event contracts, which we consider commodities, which are what prediction markets offer. They're not bets. Keep that in mind. They're not bets. They're event contracts. And these are commodities, you know. So the reason I say that is because the federal government is basically saying, we want a thousand prediction markets to bloom. We love this stuff. And in the process, while Don Jr. is on the board of both Calci and Polly Market, the two leading... Which seems like a conflict of interest. I'm surprised that you would do both, that you would get to do both.

I think it's so, again, it's a bit on the nose, right? It's like, what if we had him work for both Apple and Microsoft? It's like, well, why would that be? Well, it's because they know the transactionality of government is actually incentivizing this. And so nobody seems to even pretend that anything else is happening. But it leads to the follow-up question of, If it's 90% sports betting, great, okay? A huge problem, but let's leave it off to the side for now. In politics, the question becomes, well, if everything is sports betting, you can make a market out of literally anything, including Caroline Levitt's press conference, how long is that going to run, as well as will the price of oil, you know, react to a parent, alleged piece

being imposed on the Middle East right now. Well, who knows about that? And so a prediction market, just the history of it is fascinating because there's a logic to it that makes sense. If you have skin in the game, you can have lots of independent experts who know things to create something like a consensus around what will happen in the future. And that is really interesting to know as a matter of forecasting. What is less cool, I dare say, is when the people who are insiders now have the ability to share that knowledge with, a small number of people who will all profit at the expense of the public. And so the question you have to ask yourself when you're betting on anything political on a

prediction market is, am I more likely to know more about this than whoever Don Jr. is telling? It's just the question, right? Like you have no edge, actually. You have no inside information. You are going to be the patsy that someone else profits off of because this is a deeply unregulated space where inside information is still being reckoned with as almost a novel concept, even if it's the general thesis for why we have to regulate the stock market, right? It's just like

the very basic logic hasn't yet caught up because everything is move fast and break things. And so, look, the implications of it are vast. It's not only deeply corrupt. It's not only a way to funnel money. It's not only a way for insiders to profit. It's also something that I think is deeply even more dystopian, which is, if you consider these markets as sources for accurate forecasts of truth, you also are ceding to these markets the power to legitimate whatever the market is favoring, which is to say, if the question is, are we going to go and invade Venezuela, which was literally a question on the prediction market, and the money is saying, yes, we will. And the consensus surround the public response is, well, of course we're going to do it. Look at the prediction market.

Now you've given to these insiders or to people with money broadly the power to actually change public assumptions about what is reasonable to expect in our world. And war, assassinations, terrorism, whether Jesus will come back from the dead before 2027, which is literally a market on polymarket. And there's also a derivative market based on whether that number will ever hit 5%. It's all pretty fucked, I dare say. I dare say. My recommendation to people who are trying to track these things is to follow the dominoes tracker of if there's pizza going to the Pentagon or I guess to Marilago, which is now our new Pentagon because we live in the 50th circle of hell. Okay, let's take a quick break. Stay with us. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing O-Doo.

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Welcome back. There's a big Oval office address tonight about Iran. I'm curious. as to what you think Trump is going to be saying there. It's, you know, rumored online that he's going to go after the NATO alliance and, you know, put them on notice as if that hasn't already been going on for a while, but that, you know, maybe they're serious about leaving this time. What do you think?

Look, I think that Trump is so deeply inconsistent outside of his own self-interest that you could tell me he will continue to escalate the rhetoric, whereas like, hey, you know, England and France, you go navigate the straight of Hormuz, how do you like it? You know, like go do that. He could do any number of things that always sort of like project blame away. The thing that I keep on returning to that I hope he has held to account for from a political campaign perspective is again, dude promised no new foreign wars. And when I think about the, again, I come from sports so I can't help but think about what has been deemed the manosphere. Right? Because I...

Well, that's where I wanted to go. So thank you for getting me there. Well, you see that what was the manosphere into? They were into no new foreign wars. They were into accountability for the Epstein files. You know, they are into, frankly, like, we shouldn't let billionaires be lying to us. And what has our conversation resembled so far? It's been a repudiation of each of those major planks from people who were, again, not merely apolitical, but anti-political. And so the Iran thing. is hugely, I think, a lever on the destruction of the campaign promises of this administration. I think that when J.D. Vance releases his new book about faith and he wants to go talk about it to all

of the dudes online, you should not merely notice that that church apparently is seemingly like an Episcopalian church and not a Catholic church. And as a Catholic, I can sort of value. One of the few high horses I will get on as a Catholic in 2026 is stolen valor. Like, what are you doing? Like, that's not even a good cosplay of Catholicism. Not only talk about that, but also talk about why and how can you possibly be smiling as the number two person in this administration while you're going back on literally everything you said. And so Iran is complicated, but it's also very simple.

And I imagine that Trump's campaign messaging will be unpersuasive to a bunch of dudes who I think, by the way, spoiler alert, the left can also access not. merely by promising what feels like conspiracy, but what actually might be accountability. And if you can use sports as a bit of cheese to melt on the broccoli of accountability and accountability journalism and consequences, I think you have a way to speak to what actually is a desert, a relative desert of that audience, of these dudes feeling like they're getting what they've asked for. Yeah, I would hope so, because I would hope so.

I certainly, you know, working in conservative media, I've basically just heard about how neutered all Democratic men are and that like no man worth their salt or like get a woman pregnant would ever be a Democrat. I don't know how we possibly have all these children. But anyway, so I well, can I ask you about that? Because I look, I watch children. About how are how are how are babie formed? How girl get pregnant. Yeah. No, what I wanted to ask about was something I admire about you is that you go into a hostile arena and you are unbound. And it's really impressive to watch because you're living in a state of perpetual conflict. I actually think your perspective on like what is even worth strategizing around when it comes to convincing those people with those views versus going to this audience that I think is still up for grabs.

And actually, I guess the question more broadly is, how up for grabs do you think the audience is that you are speaking in front of, even as all of the stuff I'm saying, is potentially pulling at the threads of a political coalition? Yeah, well, the audience, like the 4 million that sit down at 5 o'clock or, you know, access their DVR to watch the 5. About 50% are Republicans, 20% Dems, and 30% independence. So there's a good amount of talking to people who have at some point voted like me. And I think in the Trump era, everything is scrambled, right? Like the hardcore MAGA can't hear you, but normie Republicans can. So I've always felt like it's a great place to try your hand at persuading. But you know, you know, better than anyone that, like, your audience for who tunes in at the moment versus what you can do on social when your clips invade another universe.

like our worlds, I mean, because of what you investigate, they sink up. But like, we live in two different stratospheres, essentially, right? But I see you all the time. And I'm sure that you see me, maybe not all the time, but like it gets into the feeds. And that's where I think the real opportunity is. And to that group of young men that you're talking about, the ones who fell into the Manosphere, the Andrew Schultz devotees, right, or the Dana White fans, they feel totally up for grabs to me.

And I'm wondering if you could unpack a little more, like, the relationship or the fissure, I guess, between like the sports world and politics, because it feels like there has been a bit of a boomerang back where it's like, this actually isn't that cool for us to be in bed, putting aside the UFC fight that's going to happen on the lawn and Mark Lynn Mullen. Oh, God. Yeah. But do you, are you sensing that, too? that there is a bit of a breakup there?

Oh, yeah. Look, the number one, well, there are lots of hypocrisies to power rank here. But one of the top hypocrisies has always been that all this administration wants is for people to stick to sports. No one has more cravenly and more transparently tried to infuse their political messaging into sports than the Trump administration. And the reason why they do it, of course, speaking and harkening back to the rhetoric around like, the transactionality of all of it is because it's not a bad strategy. It might actually have a return on the investment simply because, as you pointed out, we're so fragmented that sports is like the last big bipartisan tent left in American life.

In that way, like the reason why I think sports is so valuable is because it's a vector to reach people who are not merely in my audience politically. It's a vector to reach people who are just here for games. and they come for the sports and they stick around because I've, again, cynically speaking, I perhaps tricked them into thinking that this is just going to be all cheese and no broccoli. In fact, I think there's some stuff that they might even enjoy eating underneath that. And so for me, I think that it's number one clear that this administration, as much as they say, they are the number one, whatever, sports fans in our country and all these beta cucks,

they don't know what they're talking about. I think it's also pretty clear, as per the JD-Vans example, they don't really know as much as they pretend. You can put in a former M.MA fighter and Mark Wade Mullen to head, you know, to head Homeland Security. But if you look and hear how Trump and J.D. Vance certainly are talking, they're not so much sports fans as they are people who are deeply self-interested and know that they should appeal to people who like sports. And I think for sports fans, there has been a difference. I think the cynical, manipulation of sports in a way that is so overt is in excess, frankly, of what had been characterized previously as political, but was really about race?

You know, like, I think about even just the Colin Capradic stuff, and that's a whole other multi-part podcast series, obviously. But like the whole idea of like what happened, it's like, well, a super majority of NFL players are black, and they felt like their experience was being trampled upon in ways that were unfair and in violation of anything resembling their First Amendment rights. And there's a debate there certainly. But the notion of like, well, this is a Democratic Party. It's like, no, no, hold on. I think that what we're seeing with the Trump administration is something

that is so clearly campaigning by a party versus a reflection of like what is a perpetual stew of, yeah, of sociological tensions that can result in protest. Anyway, I'm. I'm now rambling officially, but my point is I think sports is absolutely the number one culture war territory that is available for both parties. And if the left abdicates it, they are making a grave mistake because that attention is going to be captured by somebody. Absolutely. And you've done really great work also on Riley Gaines and the kind of culture war mashup of sports with her and Leah Thomas, the Penn swimmer. that was really fascinated. I'd recommend everyone go look at that. Thank you. Yeah. Birthright citizenship is at the Supreme Court today. I've seen some like trickles out so far that it seems like Chief Justice John Roberts is skeptical of the case that the government is making, pushing back on things like birth tourism and, you know, how often it happens. Do you have a feel for, you know, how you think it's going to go, but really more like what it means for the country that we're even having this conversation? Yeah. Look, I'm a first generation American. parents came from the Philippines legally, and I was the first one born here, and I got to be a citizen because I was born in the state of New York, in the United States of America.

Look, I grew up, and it's funny to think of New York as, like, the embodiment of a bubble, because in some ways, of course, it is. It is also, though, the America that I fell in love with and still, like, adore. And the reason is because it is a genuine multicultural society. And I think all of this redounds to this larger question of do we still consider a multicultural society to be a concept worth fighting for, or is it in the eyes of this administration and its various enforcement arms, is it in fact the degradation of what America ought to be? And so look, the Supreme Court is going to handle this on a constitutional level, on a legal basis, and I am hopeful that, yeah, the wisdom of relative normalcy. And I say that knowing that Samuel Lillito and

Clarence Thomas exist. I say that with the hope that, in fact, it still is a popular idea that America engenders love for itself by bringing in people who visually and even audibly don't sound like what used to be the movie idea of what an American is, but America ends up being so sincere in its protection of its freedoms that people still fall in love with it from the outside in. And so, yeah, I'm hopeful that that's still the case. I too would like in America like that. And we're both New York City kids.

I don't have the same immigration story, but I know what you mean about it. Yeah. It would lose a lot of magic if something like that changed. Pablo Torre exceeded expectations, which were already so high. Thank you for joining me. Anytime I'm a fan. And, yeah, I hope to pop into your algorithm, whether you like it or not. You are welcome.

Invade all the time because it's pretty red-pilled right now. That's Elon Musk's. I was going to say, both our phones are in a pretty bad place, I'm guessing. Yeah. Very unhealthy. All right, before we go, a reminder that not only is raging moderates five days a week, we're also on substack. Subscribers get ad-free episodes, which I think you guys really like, live streams and

a place to connect with me and Scott and the rest of the Profji community. Find us at ragingmoderates. Dot profgimedia.com. Also, big news. Nominated for a Webby Award for Best News and Politics Podcast. Can you believe it? We need your help to bring it home. Head to vote.

at WebbyaWords.com and cast your vote. Show us some love. Scott and I really appreciate it. And like, it is a big deal just to be nominated, but like everyone really wants to win, of course. That's all for this episode. Thank you so much for joining today. Support for the show comes from SOFI.

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