Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov - Is it Time to Abolish ICE?

Episode Date: January 16, 2026

ICE continues to terrorize cities in America. Jessica Tarlov and Aaron Parnas break down the escalating federal occupation in Minneapolis following the fatal shooting of Renée Nicole Good, the protests that followed, and the growing standoff between state and federal authorities. They dig into whether rogue ICE agents ever face real accountability, what meaningful reform of the agency could look like, and what the chaos means for DHS Secretary Kristi Noem. Then, the talk about whether Donald Trump is actually trying to calm tensions with Iran — or deliberately keeping every option on the table? And as Trump clashes with Denmark and Greenland, what leverage does the U.S. really have? Finally, two weeks into his term, they check in on the Mamdani administration and what his early moves signal for New York City. Follow Jessica Tarlov, @JessicaTarlov.  Follow Prof G, @profgalloway. Follow Raging Moderates, @RagingModeratesPod. Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@RagingModerates  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu, it's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier, CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part, O-DU replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have been,

made the switch. So why not you? Try Odu for free at Odu.com. That's ODOO.com. At MedCan, we know that life's greatest moments are built on a foundation of good health, from the big milestones to the quiet winds. That's why our annual health assessment offers a physician-led, full-body checkup that provides a clear picture of your health today and may uncover early signs of conditions like heart disease and cancer. The healthier you means more moments to cherish. Take control of your well-being and book an assessment today. Medcan, live well for life. Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started. Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlov, and it's Friday. So Aaron Parnas, I have in my script, Gen Z sensation. How do you feel about that?

No, abort mission. Let's try it. Oh, prolific substacker. There we go. We're back. Aaron, how has your week been? Long, chaotic, crazy, long. Aren't we supposed to be able to? the beginning of the year, like, stop drinking and go to the gym. And I feel like I'm drinking. Actually, someone told me, oh, not just someone, my husband, sorry, a special someone, was like,

someone, a friend of ours said, oh, you know, how has motherhood changed you? And he just, from another room is like, she drinks more. How has the Trump administration changed you? He drinks more. Literally. My liver is suffering because of this man. All right. In today's episode, we're going to talk about how ice could be reformed whether rogue ice agents will ever face accountability and what this all means for Christyneum. Want to do some foreign policy too, talking about the Iran crisis and whatever is going on with Greenland. And two weeks into his term, we'll check in on the Mamdani administration. So let's start with Minneapolis. The protests, I don't know, I don't even say they're wildly

out of control because that would imply that this is all the protesters' fault. The clashes have been dominating everyone's social media feeds and the news. Tons of tragedy. Trump administration says the agent that killed were. Nicole Good acted in self-defense. He's blocked Minnesota's access to evidence and sent hundreds more federal officers into the city, which led to another shooting on Wednesday night. Local prosecutors say charges aren't impossible, but the legal and political barriers are very steep. You know, given the video evidence, which thankfully there is plenty of it, and I like that the folks of Minnesota are encouraging everyone to record everything that's going on, but how realistic is it,

do you think that ICE agents in these situations ever face charges? Almost never. And I think actually, I don't know if you saw this, but in New York, Governor Hokel is actually pushing for legislation to allow citizens in ice encounters to civilly sue ICE agents, because even getting a civil lawsuit right now against an ICE agent that in one of these situations is very difficult, given immunity-related issues. They don't have absolute immunity, but they have qualified immunity. And I think that's another argument that a lot of legal experts have that, I mean, at this point, like, we need to take a look at the qualified immunity doctrine. We should have for a long time. And it's actually funny. Clarence Thomas himself, one of the most conservative justice on the Supreme Court, is not a fan of qualified immunity. So I think that we may see some movement there. But getting charges against ICE agents right now, good luck.

Yeah, I actually didn't know that about Hockel and that's good. I feel like she has had an incredible search of the year. And we'll talk about that. A bit more in the Mom Dani section. She, you know, she's like Gavin Newsome, challenge accepted. Like, let's go over here in New York. President Hokel? I'm kidding. I don't know. No, but like. You never know. never know. Donald Trump was reelected to a second term as president. So no, you never know about these things. Going back to what you're saying about, you know, good luck getting actual charges against an ICE officer. I've been so disheartened to see the lack of interest of the federal government and working with local law enforcement gathering evidence for those on the ground who actually know what's going on there. And a lot of people who are even observers to this. And Brian O'Hara,

the police chief in Minneapolis, has talked about this. He's like, our cops are there all the time because actually ICE is doing the jobs we're supposed to do. Like, ICE actually can't enforce traffic laws or do anything. Like, they're literally there to pick up bad hombres and then they're supposed to get out. But they're acting as judge, jury, and executioner in some cases in all of this. And the federal government, they're pushing back on this, Harmeet, Dillon, and the DOJ. But there have been multiple stories talking about how prosecutors are quitting or petitioning the federal government saying, you have to work with local law enforcement to investigate these incidents.

Oh, 100%. I mean, to me, this is a matter of state and local issue. It's a state and local issue more so than a federal issue. Just because you have a federal agent involved doesn't make it automatically a federal issue. And so even if this Renee Nicole goods, the person who shot her, Jonathan Ross, were to be charged in state court, removed to federal court, even in federal court, he will be prosecuted under state law. This is a state-related issue, and I believe that Minnesota investigators should be leading the way. When I spoke to Attorney General Ellison from Minnesota, he said that they haven't received access to Renee Nicole Good's vehicle to see where the bullet kind of went through the windshield, the gun itself,

or the shell casings. And then at the same time, they've kind of been stonewalled from every witness interview, every declaration made in the case. They don't have any information. And then Ellison also told me that he thinks, or he's heard that the Civil Rights Division has also been inside line, which is why we've probably seen the mass resignations, the four top officials in civil rights, and then also now the six prosecutors who have resigned in the U.S. Attorney's Office in Minnesota. I expect that only to continue. I will say one thing that I've seen a lot of people

talk about online in this regard, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts is when all of the good guys are resigning, who's left, right? Like, if these people are resigning, who's left to enforce the law and to make sure that there's some sense of normalcy to continue? And the truth is, I don't really have an answer for you because it's really a double-edged. Same thing with like the riffs earlier this year. Like, great. Like, people want to take the offers to leave the federal government, these good federal workers.

But then when all the good federal workers leave, who's left? Right, which is exactly how Russva wants it. Right. Right. It is like, this is our dream scenario, actually, where anyone with a spine or who knows the law is gone. And we can just, you know, have our way with the country. But I do, I feel differently.

than I did in the first Trump administration about, you know, good Republicans and, you know, in quotes, like sticking it out, right? And like making sure that they can limit him or whoever, Stephen Miller, vote, whoever it is as much as possible. Because you would be out on an island, first of all. And it seems like very little has been able to get in their way. And people who I think are really making a lot of positive change are folks on the outside that are battling the administration that way. like the Mark Eliases of the world, right, that are like, I'm going to take you to court every single day. Right. And I'm going to continue to win. And it seems like the judiciary, I'm not talking about the DOJ. I'm talking about, like, judges across the country, save for the Supreme Court in some very important instances, actually have been holding the line pretty well.

Yeah, 100%. And I think that'll be kind of the story of Trump's second term is how the judiciary really blocked a lot of what he's been trying to do. I think I've been saying it from the beginning, even on this show, is that people need to calm down in the sense that a lot of what he says he's doing. He's not actually doing. His executive orders are an actually law. Now, is he terrorizing communities? Yes, as iced being deployed across America 100%. But at the same time, even the Supreme Court said you can't deploy the National Guard in Illinois, for example, right? There are still ways that his administration is being kind of constricted. And I think it'll only continue after the midterm. because based on what I'm seeing in polling-wise, and if, I mean, if we're where we are today on November 5th or 6th, whenever the election is, it's going to be a landslide for Democrats, in my opinion. Like, I mean, it's really bad for Republicans right now. Yeah, I saw the latest Gallup polling had Democrats up eight points on the generic ballot,

which is tsunami territory, not wave or ripple. You know, that was on the higher end of things. But, you know, the administration is blaming the media, right, for the spin about what's going on in Minneapolis. And I don't know if you saw this, but 82% of Americans have watched the video of Officer Ross shooting Bray Good himself. They're not actually taking a news lens to look at these things. Everyone's doing it for themselves. And that's why you have seen this huge turn against ICE. So polling has it about that half of Americans would abolish it if they had their choice. Majority of Americans thinks that Officer Ross should face criminal charges. A majority think

that ICE is not enforcing the law. properly, and the big discussion now is, should we abolish ICE? And should Democrats be using that motto, I guess, or being out there arguing for it? What's your take? I mean, I think abolishing ICE is the moderate position today for Democrats to take. Like, I don't think it's an outlandish thing to say. It's very different from abolish the police because you're not abolishing the police when you're abolishing ICE. You're also not abolishing all immigration enforcement when you're abolishing ICE. You still have customs and border protection, which ensures that the border is protected. Ice, however, is specifically being sent into streets across America to

rip apart families and terrorized communities. And so the abolished ICE position, I would expect, is going to become even more mainstream, even more popular, especially among Democrats. And I don't think that it's, I mean, I saw the Searchlight Institute put out their little memo or whatnot. And I saw the memo and I read the memo and I fundamentally disagree with the memo in the sense that the moderate position in a normal administration, fine. Take the moderate position, say, we don't need to abolish ICE. We just need some reforms. Great. But we're not living through normal times right now. And I don't think you ask any American, and they're going to be like, oh, we're good with like incremental change right now and working together. There's really very few people

out there who are like, we want to work together. It is a very divided country. If Democrats want to win, it's time to lean into the division in all honesty. I think that you're probably right. I was discussing this on Wednesday afternoon on the five. And, you know, I think I have a little bit of a different frame, which might not be the right frame, but I just know like what my life will look like if I'm sitting surrounded by four conservatives who can say in 2020, it was to fund the police. And in 2026, it was, you know, abolish ice. And what happens also to the funding that's allocated to if Democrats go the appropriations route. And they say basically we're not going to. fund DHS, then, you know, what do you do about TSA, for instance, or CBP and things like that? So I think that there needs to be a good plan, I guess, to counter it. And so far, I've just heard a lot of, like, get rid of them, right? Like, they're not doing their job, like you were saying, and I totally agree with that. I just want, like, a real good set of proposals. I've floated some that I think makes sense, like, that, you know, these guys need to be trained more than 47 days.

Like, it's cute that that's Donald Trump's presidential lineage number or whatever. But, like, they need the three to five months of training. You can't have warrantless searches. You can't be asking people for their papers. You need to wear body cams. We need to know who you are. You need a badge number. You can't throw people in unmarked fans.

Like, all of these things. And when you say them out loud, you would think that most people would say, like, oh, well, obviously, like, this is America. I shouldn't be going this way. But I was met with such opposition to this idea that people should have to identify themselves and even like, oh, well, protesters are wearing masks? I'm like, how are these two things even comparable in your mind? And I would add that David Shore, who is usually like a voice of research reason within the party from Blue Roe Strategies, also put out his own memo that said what you're saying, that abolishing ICE is not a nuts idea.

Like, this is not something that makes people think that you're a bunch of loony leftists. It makes people think that you've seen the same videos that they've seen themselves. A hundred percent. And I will also say this. I mean, I think that when we talk about funding DHS, I think that is going to be a major moment within the Democratic Party at the end of this month. We funded ICE to such a degree this summer.

Right. Right. Like, there's so much money that flowed into the coffers of ICE that, in my opinion, if you have Democrats willing, I am totally open to another government shutdown as it relates to DHS, specifically as it relates to DHS. And I think a lot of Democrats would be warming up to that idea over ICE funding because they have more funding

than parts of the United States military at this point. They're sending millions of dollars to influencers for wartime recruitment campaigns right now. I mean, this isn't... And here's the thing. I mean, all of the reforms you laid out are great, but even from like a basic level, let's make sure that ICE has training.

There was a recent NBC News report that came out overnight that literally said that ICE is using AI to vet applicants, new applicants. And the AI technology flagged any applicant that had the word officer in their resume or in their cover letter as someone who already had law enforcement officer training. But the truth is, most of those people are, like, if you're a compliance officer, for example, you were saying they said that you had complete training.

Or if you said you wanted to be an ICE officer, they said you already had necessary training. They're putting people on the streets with not enough training or really any training at this point. And you're seeing what happens. Absolutely. There was also an incredible story of a lefty journalist and activist who applied to come and dice and she was preliminarily accepted. There was no, like, basic Google search of the fact that her social media is full of,

like, fuck ice. And, you know, Donald Trump is an authoritarian or whatever it was. Like, when you're surging 3,000 people at a time, when you're working off of quotas, when you're just trying to satisfy Stephen Miller's fever dreams, right? Like, you're going to be making a lot of mistakes. And I don't know why, frankly, they would want to be part of this or to support it at this level, except that they want to run a militarized United States of America. That is the only conclusion I'm left to understand. Yeah. Maybe I'm going to apply to ICE and see if I get in quickly.

See if it works. You should do it as an activity. Though I think now they're probably a little more alert now that that story has gotten a... They're going to see my name and be like, no. They're like, this kid's trouble. Yeah. All right. Let's take a quick break. Stay with us. Hey, it's Olivia from Ollie. Getting better sleep this year is totally doable. But skip the lettuce tea in the mouth tape. These sleep trends are getting unhinged. Ollie's sleep gummies help you fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up refreshed.

Just melatonin, L-thian, and botanical extracts. No weird wet salad aftertaste. Better sleep can start tonight. Go to OLL.L-Y.com to choose your snooze. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat cure or prevent any disease. Hey, it's Olivia from Ollie.

I gotta tell you, I saw when you asked AI about probiotics. No judgment. But I think Ollie can help. Probiotics are the good bacteria that support your digestive and immune system. Just two gummies a day to bring balance to your gut. So, save the AI for drafting that reply to your X. That's going to take guts. Go to OLLY.com to learn more.

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Allie! Hey, it's Olivia from Ollie. Is it just me? Or are these wellness trends getting ridiculous? Protein tracking, biohacking. It's too much.

Start small with Ollie's daily multivitamin. Just two gummies a day help support your immune system, heart, and bone health. It's that easy. Less tracking. More doing you, boo. Go to OLL.L.com to learn more. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

Welcome back. I want to quickly touch on what's going on with Iran. Wednesday night, it seemed like maybe there was going to be some American action. Iran closed its airspace. What do you think the odds are at this point that there is American intervention over there? Pretty high still. I really do. I mean, I think this is Trump saying kind of.

And he said the same thing last time. Oh, Iran's not killing any protesters. Right before he did Ford. Right, right, before he did fordough. And I don't know if you saw the Iranian foreign ministers interviewed the other day, but he said, no executions on Wednesday, no executions on Thursday. I don't know what Friday holds. That's literally what he said.

And so I think that, but I'm going to be honest with you, if the United States does not get involved, I don't know how these protests continue at this point. I don't know. Because I think based on what we're seeing on the ground, thousands of people being killed by the Iranian regime over the past couple weeks, I don't know how protesters come out and say, I can continue doing this with fear of my life. I don't know. It's a very scary situation. I know people living in Iran right now and they're terrified. And I also don't know what U.S. intervention looks like, whether it would even work, right?

I wish they would tell us. I understand you can't tell us everything. I do believe in that, Democrat or Republican administration. But, like, give us a hint of what help is on the way actually means because we've seen help is on the way. before and that story did not end well for us and for a lot of people in the Middle East. Yeah, I don't know what that looks like, so we'll see. Okay. Greenland, are we taking it? Well, the European Union has planted a flag in Greenland over the past 24 hours. European troops are currently on the ground in Greenland. Do I think we're taking it?

50-50. Honestly, I don't know. Really? Yeah. That high? Because I'm pretty 75-25. I do think that they'll do a deal and they'll have to, which they would. have done anyway. I just hate the ritual humiliation of all of this. Like the Danes and the

Greenlanders have always been open to basically doing whatever the United States wants, except becoming the 51st state or whatever his fantasy is. We already have a military base there, right? Like, I'm sure if we said, I think... And they let it build it up. I think you're right. I think what we'll see is like some type of deal in which the United States has like de facto military control over Greenland, whatever that looks like. Right. And Trump can come out and talk about it and be like, here's my gold-plated cell phone from Tim Cook. Here is my Greenland plaque. Put Trump on a dog sled at this point.

Like physically or his face? Physically. Okay. Quickly. What are your thoughts on early Mom Donnie days? I have thought this is a pretty effective first couple of weeks. You know, funding of universal pre-K. Your applications are already open for your two- and three-year-olds to be able to

to do that. Kathy Hokel, big assist, going back to President Hokel. Also, the moves to cut red tape when it comes to getting small businesses to be able to open and thrive and also for building more housing, which has been a huge issue with the left wing of the Democratic Party that there's been so much resistance to cutting red tape when it comes to building more housing and doing it quickly. So what are your thoughts? I mean, I'd give it an A rating at this point. I mean, he's He's avoided all controversy, right? Not a single piece of controversy really has come out that's plagued the administration. Eric Adams is opening up a meme coin and he's... And he's actually doing stuff. I mean, even if these are just announcements, right? Like announcements of funding or announcements of housing building, whatever it is, they're announcements and he's actually taking action. So I give him an A at this point, but it's been only two weeks. So we'll see what happens. I know. It's been an impressive two weeks for me as someone who, you know, was excited about certain proposals, definitely the universal child care and expanding universal pre-K. But to see him kind of bucking some more left-wing forces, I guess I would be against some of these things as it comes to the restrictions or the regulations, I should say. I've been heartened by all of that. And also, I don't know if you've seen any of the footage of him just walk around the city, but people are going bananas for him. He's like,

Mick Jagger, Mindani, Mick McDonny, Mick McDonny, I don't know, whatever, I can't come out with a good nickname for it. But, like, people love him. Ask Trump, he'll probably come up with the nickname soon. Oh my God, and you saw that they're text message friends. I think that's, yeah. Can't even, I really, I'm sure Trump will show them to us eventually in like that huge font. He'll be like, this is my boy, Zoran, very handsome. All right, Aaron, it was great to see you.

I'll see you next Friday. See you next Friday. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu, it's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier, CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more.

And the best part, O-DU replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the same. switch. So why not you? Try O-D-U for free at O-D-O-O-O-com. That's O-D-O-O-O-O-com.