Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov - Platner Bombshell Throws Democrats Into Chaos

Episode Date: July 7, 2026

How can progressives govern effectively in a post-Trump America? Join Jessica Tarlov in conversation with Brian Tyler Cohen on Thursday, 7/9 at 11:45AM. Sign up here: links.profgmedia.com/btclive Jessica Tarlov is joined by The Bulwark’s Sam Stein, and they start in Maine, where Democratic Senate candidate Graham Platner has announced he is taking time to reflect after a rape allegation went public. They discuss the logistics of possibly replacing the scandal-ridden Platner on the ballot — and mention a few possible candidates — while also asking the important question: how could the party vetting process have failed so miserably? Plus: what is the condition of former Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who has been hospitalized for weeks, with minimal information? Will there be a special election for his seat — and will the recently-primaried Kentuckyan Thomas Massie take an interest? And in Michigan, Mallory McMorrow has dropped out of the Senate race, leaving moderate Haley Stevens — backed by Chuck Schumer — facing off against progressive Dr. Abdul El-Sayed — backed by Bernie Sanders and AOC — in the Democratic primary. Rahm Emanuel is visiting Israel this week and pre-released his speech, signaling shifting sentiment on Israel within the Democratic Party. And finally: Did Trump’s brazen act of intervention with FIFA president Gianni Infantino to overturn a striker’s suspension wind up cursing the U.S. men’s soccer team? Get your tickets now for our live show at 92NY: https://www.92ny.org/event/scott-galloway-and-jessica-tarlov For ad-free episodes, exclusive livestreams, and to connect with Scott, Jessica, and the Raging Moderates community, join us at ProfG+ on Substack: https://ragingmoderates.profgmedia.com/ Get The Monday Rage newsletter: https://profgmedia.com/s/monday-rage/ Follow Raging Moderates on IG, Tiktok, and Facebook: https://www.instagram.com/ragingmoderatespod/ https://www.tiktok.com/@ragingmoderates https://www.facebook.com/ragingmoderates Follow Jessica Tarlov on Instagram, Substack, and Bluesky: https://instagram.com/jessicatarlov https://substack.com/@jessietarlov https://bsky.app/profile/jessicatarlov.bsky.social Follow Scott on Instagram, Substack, and Bluesky: https://instagram.com/profgalloway https://substack.com/@profgalloway https://bsky.app/profile/profgalloway.com Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@RagingModerates Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Sign up at ragingmoderates. Dotprofgmedia.com or click the link in the show notes. Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlov, and because he's not here to tell you that he's on a yacht, I will tell you that Scott is on a yacht on the coast of Sargenia. And Sam Stein, the managing editor of the Bullwork, MS Now contributor, is filling his, I don't even know actually how large Scott's shoes technically are, but they are in podcasting world, they are enormous. So Sam, thank you. Pretty big. Yeah, I wish I was on a yacht too, but I'm not, unfortunately. Sam. I'm thrilled to have you here. It is a big. day in politics in general, but especially in Democratic politics. And I want to start with what's going on with Graham Platner. Jenny Rascott, who dated him in 2021, detailed a rape scenario to Politico got published yesterday about 3 p.m. She was one of the women that the New York Times had spoken to for their big piece. There's lots of swirl online, especially from Lindsay Fifeield, who did come

forward with her story about Platner pulling her arm behind her back and shoving her into a bedroom, that this was one of the stories that they could have done more work to be able to bring to light. Even though Rassicott said in her interview with Jay Tapper yesterday that she didn't want to be known as a rape victim, if Grand Platner drops out of the race by July 13th, then the Democratic Party in Maine has a chance to appoint someone else to be the candidate to face off against Susan Collins. that has to happen by July 17th. There are a lot of possible replacements, including Secretary of State Shinabellos, former Maine Senate President Troy Jackson. He seems to be the favorite of the progressive left right now.

Former public health director, Narav Shah, and former congressional candidate Jordan Wood. Cal she currently has the odds of platinum dropping out by Thursday at 58%. I kind of feel like it's today. They have also that we still have a 57% chance of winning. to see Susan Collins scares me. What are your initial thoughts on where all of this stands? I mean, that's just a lot. Where to begin. I guess the most important thing is the non-political stuff, which is that if you read the account in politico of what happened and transpired,

I mean, regardless of whether you want to define it as sexual assaults, or rape or whatever, it's disturbing, deeply disturbing. And it's not that it's an act in a vacuum. It's obviously part of a pattern of behavior that now has become just nothing that you could possibly dismiss. And I'm not going to pretend like I've been sort of banging on the door saying planner has to go. You know, I think, you know, on a personal level, I was willing to sort of. of give the guy a little space to explain some of the stuff in his past. Obviously, as a Jew, I was troubled by the tattoo, and yet I was willing to say,

okay, maybe he didn't understand why he got that tattoo, a Nazi symbol tattoo. And certainly there's nothing that I've seen from him that is like Nazi behavior beyond that. But at some point, the pattern of the behavior and the repeated sort of denial saying, well, this isn't really true and it's the fog of memory, it adds up. And it says something about the character in a way that's obviously, I think, disqualifying at this juncture. So that's the personal stuff. And I think that's the most important stuff. The political stuff is a mess.

And, you know, I spent yesterday talking to people in the Democratic Party about it and what the hell to do about it. And, you know, to a person, no one thinks he can go on. And I think those calciads are kind of like almost hysterically low, right? like 58%. I guess maybe they're doing the odds by Thursday. Thursday. They're pointing to the date. If you're just saying he's going to drop out by the 13th,

I'd put those odds at, what, 95%. I mean, it's just... I'm kind of at 99.9%. Yeah. I was giving like a little wiggle room for ego where he's like, oh, you know what? I can make this happen. But no, he can't win.

Even he just can't win. And so the question now becomes what to do about it. And I was talking to people who worked on, you know, the weird analogy obviously is now like, what happened when Biden in 20204, obviously different contexts and circumstances, but like, what do you do when you have a candidate who pretty much everyone's like, they can't win, we got to get them off the ballot. It's not easy, obviously, because if you choose someone who is a more, quote, unquote,

seasoned politician, and by that I mean, someone who's been vetted, who's been around the block, who's in politics and has been, then people who really like Grant Platterner, who were brought into the process precisely because he wasn't a politician, suddenly they become disengaged. They say, well, this is just the establishment doing their thing again. If you go with someone who's less tested but has more grassroots support, you obviously risk getting into the situation again where you don't have a vetted candidate and you're just holding your breath, hoping that there's not skeletons in the closet.

And yet you have to do some sort of change. And I was talking to Rob Flaherty about this. He was Kamala Harris's top digital director. And he's like, look, it was awful. It was hard. But had we not switched to Kamala Harris? You know, we lost obviously, but had we not switched to Kamala Harris, we would have lost the number of Senate seats in 2024.

Like, you have to make the change. Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I should note as well, Graham Platner denies these allegations, but does acknowledge that essentially the position is untenable and he's taking the time to reflect on all of this. I wanted to directly address the troubling, serious, and false allegations against me. Any accusation of non-consensual behavior is categorically false.

Regardless of the inaccuracy of the reporting, but mindful the political reality it will inflict, we are taking the time to reflect on the best path forward for the state that I love, the people that I love, the movement I belong to, and the goal of defeating Susan Collins. Those were the goals when we launched this campaign, and they remain my goals today. Every one of you deserves to see that vision come to fruition and see Susan Collins defeated, and we will use every tool at our disposal to do so. The account is very disturbing on a number of levels, but I have not spoken to one woman of any political persuasion since this came out

who doesn't recognize that scenario. And I think that's why it hit particularly hard, and it was so swift for everyone to just be like, this guy's got to go. And I'm not saying that every woman was raped or I would allege that they were raped, but the idea of someone who you were in a situation ship with, which is how she called it, and you didn't want them to come over and they came over anyway. And I think her phrase was, I complied, but I didn't consent.

It's something very resonant with a lot of people. And I guess I shouldn't make it only women, because I'm sure the same things happen to men, but in most cases when you are dealing with a huge size differential and, you know, the alcohol being involved. It's just, it's different. And I can see why this felt palpably different to folks. In terms of what comes next on the politics of it, you know, I'm curious as to how you feel about the internal party dynamics in this. Because, you know, there is, for me as someone as part of like the more normie wing, right? or they call me, you know, I'm a corporate S-DEM or whatever, you know, establishment

Dem. You're an establishment sell-out Normie Dem. Come on. Legacy media, like all the things. Yeah, you're horrible. Well, we both pod and cable news. So, but it feels like there is a lesson in this about doing the real work of vetting. Right.

And we all watch the interview with, like, come on, man. Like this Daniel Marath, the guy who found Graham Platner and was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, right? And they said, oh, the tattoo didn't come up. And he's like, no, it didn't come up at all. And you're like, well, K-File found it in like 20 minutes, right? Like, he wrote about this thing on Reddit. So, like, what did your vetting actually look like? And the left, Sands Bernie Sanders, who is still, as time of this taping, is not released the statement.

It was very swift, like, get out of here, right? Hassan Piker was done with it. But now they're saying it has to be Troy Jackson. Why? Well, because he's the heir to the quote unquote movement, or that's what they're saying. And I appreciated Hannah Pingree's statement. You know, she's the Democratic nominee for governor where she said he has to get out, but acknowledged that he built something, right?

Like that there is a vibe and a movement of sorts happening. And you can't just put in like a Janet. Mills, which is out of question. But this is making me angry all over, I guess, about the accommodating of the big tent and, like, how we actually deal with the tent, because this is a strike

against the this is what the people want. Well, let's talk about that. What is the movement? I'm not trying to dismiss, like, what he built, because obviously he had a really great following, but also at the same time, I think we should be honest about, like, no one knew

who this guy was a year ago. So what is the movement? You know, with Bernie, it's a little bit different. Like, because everyone's, you know, points to Bernie as kind of the emblem here. But like Bernie was a mayor and then a congressman and then a senator and he had decades of champing these ideals. He pushed for Medicare for all, getting money out of politics. He railed against billionaires and millionaires in his Brooklyn accent. Like, there was some sort of meat to the bone on the moon.

movement, right? So what is the platform? I'm going to pose the question to you. What is the movement that we're talking about here? Is it a, is it a about the person? Because we just met this guy a year ago. I'm not trying to denigrate. Well, I guess I can now, but I'm not saying about him. I think he's denigratable at this point. But like, or is it the ideals? Because plenty of people are talking about the same ideas that he's talking about. So what is the movement? I just don't understand this a little bit. Well, I think that it is the agenda. that is encapsulated in a Bernie Sanders or an Elizabeth Warren. And in defense also of some more moderate Democrats, they're talking about a lot of the same things, right? Like, it's now not uncommon

to find like a Ruben Gallego, right, who's like, we got to shut down the border. Also, let's do Medicare for all. Right. Like, it's become a bit of a mishmash of these policies. But I think that it is definitely as progressive as possible on things like taxation and, you know, what the state or the state should provide for you. Like, I'm in New York. city, all the Mamdani type of stuff. It is a war against centrism in general, right? So that could be Democratic centrism and it could also be Republican centrism plus Trump. And it's also Israel. Yeah. And that was a core plank of this. I mean, it was a top three thing that Graham Platner was talking about. And you see that in races all over the country. I want to talk about Michigan as well.

Abdul al-Sayad. He's talking about it all the time. And Mallory McMorrow. really got herself boxed in because she didn't know how to talk about Israel. She couldn't do a Haley Stevens and she couldn't do an al-Said and she ended up having to drop out. So if any main Democrat had those three planks in their platform, critical of APAC, critical of establishment, moderation, pro-Medicare for all, would they be fine as a platinum replacement or is it attitudinal too in the way that you kind of go about campaigning. I think it has a vibes situation to it. And then also it has a consultant in common, right? Morris Katz, who's been on a lot of these campaigns. And it's a burn it all down mentality and that progress is not slow but certain. I think that that is very fundamental to democratic politics for a very long time, right? You remember the whole,

is Hillary Clinton a progressive? And she said, yeah, because I both. leave in progress, right? And that's what I'm working towards. And you have to get into the system to change the system. And they're like, I want to get into the system and I want to smash the shit out of it. Right. And I think that's what the movement is. Yeah, but that's, to me, this is the great irony here. Because like, again, pointing to Bernie Sanders, because obviously he is the godfather of all this. Bernie is, you know, has a lengthy track record of being an incrementalist. He does. I mean, it's just true. Like Bernie was involved in VA reform under Obama and he worked with John McCain on it.

And it was about making sure that there were a little bit more, not private options, but more flexibility around VA care. And it's the type of thing that like, you know, if anyone else did it, people would be like, what the hell? Bernie cast votes for Obamacare. This is the guy who is Medicare for all. But he understood that you get there piece by piece. but Bernie built up credibility

and he cast that vote because he understands that you can't just say all or nothing when it comes to legislation. So, you know, it's funny to me that there's such this burn it all-dead mentality when, to your point, progress is the ultimate, you know, North Star here. I guess the only other thing I would say,

I'm not trying to like be, you know, argumentative or contrary in here. I just find, I struggle with sort of understanding what the movement is, because I think there's a lot of candidates who would, you know, be pretty damn close to those planks that have animated the sort of populist Democrats in the current times. But they would never get the attention or love for a variety of reasons. I'm just not sure why.

But I do think one of the real takeaways that I've had from this whole platinum mess and what I wrote about today is like, you know, there are like there's some upside to having a little political. seasoning that we should acknowledge, right? Like, it's going through a campaign and experiencing it, having had a vet, going through the campaign and having an oppo file built on you, going through a campaign and having Republicans try to tear you down once or twice. It doesn't just build character. It makes sure that your record is pretty clean.

And also, you know, we shouldn't look necessarily at political experience being in politics as such a negative. Not everyone who is in politics is utterly cynical and awful and a corporate shell and a sellout. There are good people who are in politics. And it shouldn't be like a scarlet letter that folks wear any. It doesn't mean you need to back Janet Mills if you're a main Democrat. I mean, no one's saying that. But, you know, this notion that anyone who's ever held elected office is suspect, I think people need to reassess their

priors now. Yeah, I think that's a really important point. And then to also judge their record when they were in that office because they can do things that you like or they can do things that you're not into. But knowing how it works and also knowing your way around the machine is a good thing. I mean, too often, and this is the last thing that I want to say specifically about the platinum thing. I'm using you also as a bit of a therapy session because I'm here for you. Thank you. I'm so glad I invited you because Scott would be like, I don't want to hear about this.

He would be like, don't you have a husband that you can talk to about your feeling? I'm just kidding. Scott's great about my feelings. But it has been way too hard to express how you're feeling about someone like Grand Platner. And that's part of how the party functions right now that it's just like the purity tests. And like if you don't get on board, we're coming after you. And it's been upsetting to me, especially as a Jewish person, to, have to find a way to kind of shape shift into like a toten cough is okay. And I did believe that he didn't know what it was when he got it, but he definitely lied about when he found out what it was and then left it on and like partied with it for several years. And so I felt that I was really boxed into a corner in making my arguments, especially, you know, at Fox where, you know, this is catnip, right? Like you have a guy literally with a Nazi tattoo who, like we thought it was just threw someone into a room and like pull her arm behind her back,

but now credible sexual assault, rape allegation, whatever you want to call it, there's just like, it just shouldn't be this hard, right? Like you just say, this isn't the guy. And then there was a primary and he was the choice of the voters. And it took me back and you guys had huge amounts of internal conversation with us between Tim and Sarah and yourself about like, how Trumpian do you get about this? Right? Like, how much do you just say, well, the people like him? And where do our standards go, essentially? Yeah, I mean, now I'm going to get on the couch. Jump in.

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New episodes drop weekly on YouTube and your favorite podcast app. Sarah Longel and I had a pretty long podcast about this after the first New York Times story. More or less, I was like, yeah, I am like really conflicted. And I think it's okay to be, like, conflicted. Like, we don't have to be so certain. I mean, obviously the online political discourse and certainly the jobs you and I have, you more than me, on cable, it makes you have, like, makes you take incredibly certain positions. And you speak, you're kind of like compelled to speak with conviction and make your point

without sort of acknowledging that you might have self-doubt or nuance. And for me, Plattenor really kind of exposed a lot of kind of like these tricky questions that you go about when you judge people who are running for elected office and how much leeway you give them and how you know how you judge a vote based on character versus political outcomes and things like that and you know there was a real discomfort i felt with the guy for a variety of reasons but i understood simultaneously that like you know there are other objectives out there there are other calculations to be made you know control of the senate being one of them the will of the main voters obviously being one of them the idea that people can in fact change

and improve over their lives and grow. The idea that serving in a war overseas, which I've never done, can't even possibly comprehend, might actually emotionally impact people in ways that are incomprehensible to me. So like all that stuff was in my head at the time. Now I've gone to a place, obviously,

with more revelations where, you know, there's more clarity to how I feel about this. And this latest story really is a bar above at the times reported when he was engaged in what appeared to be an active domestic violence. Islands. This is like far worse. And, you know, I'm just discomforted by the entire idea to the point where it's like quite easy and clear for me to speak out about it. I will say this. Some of the stuff around, you mentioned like, well, how Trumpy should you be? Like, I do think that's kind of

underappreciated in a way, right? Like, I do think Democrats, I mean, we saw the Sarah saw this in her focus groups and there's like a really interesting piece up that we put up last night about main Democratic focus groups. They were like, look, look, he can do whatever. there's one line he can't cross and that's sexual assault. Well, he crossed it, it appears. But even in that moment, like, there were people in the focus groups who were like, you know what, fuck the Republicans. Like, they all rallied behind Donald Trump.

They set a new standard. Like, this is not. Why are we playing by an entirely different set of rules? And, like, I get it. I do. But, like, also at some point, the identity of your soul and the soul of the party kind of do materially matter. And I think you do have to say, you know, if you want to make a distinction between yourself and Republicans unvalues and character, like this is where you have to draw those distinctions. Yeah, I read the piece and I've listened to you guys talking about it a lot.

And that is, I guess, where I felt like my line was where I would stop saying, you know, what I really want, I want that seat. And I know that Graham Platner will not vote for a new Supreme Court justice and how Collins handled. Kavanaugh is something that really sticks with me, that she still runs around, you know, being like, oh, I'm pro-choice, blah, blah, blah. And I don't regret it. These stories came out actually in a way that protects the party more than they needed to. Right. And Jenny Rassica is a Democrat. She talks about how conflicted she was in doing this because she wants to win, right? Like she wants Susan Collins out and for her to be replaced by someone with her political values. It was an issue of her human values. Right. And obviously something specifically happened to her. Lindsay Feifield said the same thing, where she said, I'm giving you time, right? Like, you have an out clause, essentially. And I guess we should just be thankful that it is possible that we will have a candidate who could maybe be Susan Collins. But this has a lot of lessons, I think, for the party and how we select people, how we treat each other within this larger tent that everybody is working to make as accommodating as possible to people with similar underlying

values, but different policy preferences or action plans, however you want to see it. And it feels like we need like a massive couch under the tent for everybody right now. Like Neeratandan and Hassan Piper need to get on like little couches next to each other and just like figure out how we're going to do this because that's the weird. No, but so much of it, don't you feel like so much of this is just like, I mean, just not all of it. Yeah, it's just like the perniciousness of the online discourse. I mean, you can't, there's no way to conduct a conversation around this stuff online. It's just, it's awful.

It's just kindling for the worst. And the tweets last forever, as we're seeing from some pals are getting raked over the per real coals. I want to talk about Mitch McConnell, who has went into the hospital through. weeks ago. Initially, Senator Othun said, or I should say, Lead Arthune, you know, he's doing well. Now there's been no communication with him. Allegedly, Mike Lee posted, he's like, we have no idea what's going on. His wife is in China. His daughter has deleted her Twitter account. There are rumors swirling that he is brain dead. That has not been confirmed by a news outlet as far as I know. But everyone is asking questions suddenly. I don't know why they weren't asking questions.

two weeks ago. The way that the rules work in Kentucky, if we don't know that he can't fulfill his duties before August 3rd, then there would be a special election. It used to be an appointment like Andy Bashir would get to a point. Then there would be a special election. Now, those rules have changed. So after August 3rd, then nothing happens. And I've, you know, read that the Republicans want to make sure that Thomas Massey doesn't get in there, you know, run as a D-Slas-I candidate, right? And so what do you think is going on with Mitch McConnell? It's no one knows.

And, I mean, look, he was obviously in horrible health prior to this episode. He had multiple episodes of falling. If anyone who was walking around on the hill, our congressional correspondent, would note he looked terrible. He was then put in a wheelchair and pushed around. He seemed absent mentally. He obviously had a couple episodes a few years back where he just went vacant. So, you know, not great, obviously. 84.

And clearly at this juncture, incapable of doing the job. Can he return? I mean, I suppose, but there's not really much of a track record for people like turning it around at this age at this condition. And it just gets back to sort of, I mean, I'm not trying to tie everything into a neat, little bow, but let me try. There's like an immense selfishness, I feel like, among people in politics. And I suppose that's part of the business. Like, you have to have an incredible ego to feel like you deserve to serve the people and that they should elect you and all this stuff. And then when you do get elected, whether it's majority leader to the Senate or president of the United States,

you certainly have an ego because you are elected. But the idea that you would hold on and do what you're doing, or continue to run, in Plattern's case, continue to run for office knowing that these things are out there, that, like, you're so special that only you can do this

and only you can withstand the screening, that, you know, basically, like, humanity depends on you sticking it out. It's incredibly selfish. And right now, the people of Kentucky have one senator, one person voting for them, and we don't know when they'll get another one.

And I find that, like, ridiculous. We were supposed to be representative democracy, and that means you have people who are there to represent you. And Mitch McConnell probably almost certainly should not have run for re-election the last time, and now he's in a world of hurt. And it's leaving people without the proper representation that they deserve. I don't know what is going on with him, but clearly it's a bad situation. And we really, you would have thought that the whole Biden experience

would have taught us to have more of a, stern conversation about age in our political system, but we still need to have that conversation. Yeah, I mean, I understand everybody ages at a different rate, but even looking at, you know, Chuck Grassley's posts, right, and he's still doing, you know, all 99 counties and his wife is still out in the cornfields and, like, all of the cute 72 years of marriage situation that they're doing. Like, why don't people want to hang out with their families? Right. Well, let's not us.

I don't know. I don't know. I guess. But you know what I mean. Or go make a set ton of money. Yeah. Go make money. Yeah.

Well, they make money in office. They make money in office too nowadays. You need some hobbies for sure. Like, I agree. Like, Chuck Grassley, like, I'm proud of him. He's got his little vacuum that he's always tweeting about and things like that. He seems pretty young for a 90-whatever-year-old. But, like, there's, go do something else.

Like, this can't be it. And honestly, like, you're not. Like, I was not going to, like, fall apart if you are not at center. Yeah, you're probably bringing home a bunch of stuff to the state because of your seniority, and it does benefit them. But, like, at some point, you should just hand off the responsibilities to someone else. And that's true of a lot of people across the spectrum. Oh, yeah, definitely. I hope that lessons will be learned by the next election.

I doubt it. Well, honestly, I think that to some degree, this faction that we're talking about, like, whether you want to call it the DSA left or progressive left or whatever is going to be so loud that it'll be really tough to not do that. Like, I can't see a scenario where Chuck Schumer can keep going and run for re-election again here. No, but how old is Bernie Sanders? A hundred. Eighty-four. I just looked at up. They're not going to push him out. I mean, it's always, you know, it's always the good age.

Yeah, it's like, yeah, who has my politics? And, like, yeah, and I mean, Elizabeth Warren with her pawns cream, she looks like she's 50. So. She looks pretty good, yeah, I'll give her that. She looks awesome. I want to hop over to Michigan, similar themes of what we're talking about. So now we're down to two candidates, Haley Stevens and Abdul Al-Said. This race now, I think, is like the perfect microcosm of the tension within the party, right?

like Chuck Schumer and the DSCC, like everyone, establishmenty lining up behind Haley Stevens, Abdul, Al-Said, getting the progressive left and some like normy endorsements too, but seems to have a lot of momentum on his side. Do you think that like up until now, and I rarely say this, I shouldn't say that. I like a lot of what Rahm Emanuel says, but I particularly liked when he said that these districts are going from blue to cobalt blue, right? Like what's happening in New York City, for instance, or, you know, Colorado's first district, right? Like, these were already D plus 50 seats or whatever. But do you think that the DSA style left can pull off a statewide win, like in a Michigan?

So you're saying in a general or in a primary? Both. Okay. Yeah. I think, look, in a primary for sure, I'll say it is, you expect him to win? I mean, I haven't pulled up my calciads recently. But yeah. Okay.

Yeah, no, but I mean, it's just, you pay attention to it, like as much as I do. Yeah. So I would, at this juncture, and I trust, so we have a report here, Jonathan Cohn, who's based in Michigan. He's been into a bunch of these rallies, and he's got his sort of finger to the pulse of what's going on there more than I do. And his take is like, you know, there's one person who's campaigning with joy and purpose and energy and vigor and excitement. And there's another person who is campaigning, not scared, but like tentatively and trying to like hold the coalition together.

And usually like that's kind of an interesting indication of where the winds are blowing. And his take is that El Saeed is like, you know, in a better spot. Now, he also believes that he actually is underrated as a general election candidate, that there was a lot of angst about it for obvious reasons. I mean, you don't need to, like, be a genius to understand why. But that, like, you know, he's a very accomplished campaigner and that he can actually, he's not as big a liability as some conventionalism holds. To your point, Michigan's a different testing ground than New York City or that district in Colorado because it is a purple state. But the primary electorate, even in these purple states, are trending more left. And this is, you know,

I don't want to paint with too broad a brush, because I do think there's plenty of examples we could turn to where more moderate or district-friendly candidates were winning their primaries. I mean, you can even look back at, you know, when Zaron won his mayor election, you know, the two governors who won for Democrats were Normie Dems, right? Like, and that was Jersey and Virginia. So it's, I'm still not at the point where it's like, oh, we're in. a full-blown DSA takeover. I don't think that's true. But I do think in a state like Michigan at this point in time, given the dynamics, and I think it's fair to say Haley Stevens has not run the best campaign ever, that he definitely is the favorite at this point. Yeah, I'm totally

with you. I mean, the big takeaway from recent election nights for me were, you know, like Kate Conley, who's going to run against Mike Lawler and hopefully beat him, you know, Bob Brooks in Pennsylvania, this, you know, the blue collar brigade. Like, they're still not, they're not potentially in position to flip seats, which is what we need to do or to hold a tough seat. And that's what this Michigan seat is. I mean, Mike Rogers is a pretty good candidate. He only lost to slok in by, what, one and a half two points?

Yeah. It was very close. And I think that that's, you know, folks' anxiety, like, you get to the general. And people are just like, this is too left for me. If you don't win this, if you don't win this, you know, Democrats, do you know. Maine doesn't matter, right? Like, we're talking about, you know, Josh Turrick. And it's like, oh, you couldn't even hold Michigan. I already got into this a tiny bit.

Well, I mentioned Rahm Emanuel. And we talked about or we said Israel. So now I want to mash them together because he is in Israel. And he's going to give a big speech, which he has leaked early so that we can all talk about it on podcasts like this. And it very much represents a departure for Rahm and how he talks about Israel and I guess what a Rahm Emanuel presidency would look like vis-a-vis Israel. You know, certainly stopping aid is something that's become pretty mainstream within the party. I think there were only eight senators that voted to keep sending offensive aid to Israel, you know, needs major changes to the government. This is in a speech.

I feel as a liberal Jew that this is a very helpful thing that he's doing, that he's changing the bar for what, you know, Zionists can say and think about Israel and what their policy platform would look like, but curious what your read on it is. Well, I agree with you that it's helpful to see. And I think whether you think Roms trying to catch up to trends or getting ahead of them, like whatever. I think this is a low-key important moment. I'm also sort of of the mindset that we should consider a kind of low-hanging fruit at this point in time. Netanyahu himself has been like, yeah, you can cut off aid, we're fine, we should be independent. So it's like, okay, cool, let's do it.

Also, Netanyahu is like, you know, ignoring the country's Supreme Court at this point in time. And if you can't be like, actually, that's not really good ethical behavior for government. We shouldn't support that. Then, like, you got to problems. And, you know, obviously, look, put it this way. I'm of the mindset as an American Jew who loves Israel, who is bar mitzvahed in Israel, who believes Israel should be a state, that there should be a Jewish state, that it is inherently important and healthy for Jewish people to be critical of Israel

when Israel does things wrong. The idea that you should just be lockstep, supportive of Israel because you are Jewish, is fundamentally wrong, honestly, because that's, There is an important independent mindset that is part of the Jewish experience, and there's an important element of self-criticism that is part of the Jewish experience, and you cannot simply just say, well, because it's Israel, because I'm Jewish, therefore, I must support what Israel is doing. That's a dangerous path to go down.

And so Rahm obviously is Jewish. He's obviously doing this in political context, but I think there's something greater to this, which is you need to get into a place where you treat criticism of Israel as actually supporting the idea of Israel. And that's where my head's at. Do you think that this, so I agree with all, well, I wasn't actually about Medzvud, much to everyone's disappointment, let alone in Israel. No, I know.

There's still time. Yes, it is low-hanging fruit. And I guess, do you think that this kind of litmus test of is Israel creating a genocide going to go away, if everybody shifts to Rom, position now or slotkins or John Ossoffs or Warnock like any of the kind of

the fighter normies. I don't even know what to call this cohort, right? They're the ones that clearly understand the moment, but also win in purple places and know that a coalition

has to be built from the far, far left to moderate Republicans. Essentially, like that's our tent now. Yeah. I think they're always going to, you know, it diffuses some of it, but I'm pretty sure that there will always be some litmus test, right? It's like, okay, you know, cutting off aid to Israel was a litmus test, but now that everyone's for it, well, will you say that what happened in Gaza is genocide?

And that's the new litmus test. And if you can use that word or not. Or, you know, should, you know, the Netanyahu administration be prosecuted for this in the international criminal court? Like, is that an litmus test? You know, there's always going to be some sort of level at which point someone can distinguish themselves. And I do think, as noted in our Plot in our Plot in our discussion, the degree to which this was an animating purpose of his candidacy. I mean, he, even in, like, the depths of the scandals that came prior to the latest one, his retort was often, well, you know, Apex, you know, behind the scenes trying to, you know, engineering. or my demise and they support Susan Collins and all stuff.

It's like, you know, that was his, that was his boogeyman. So I do think it's helpful to see, it's helpful on just a strictly policy grounds to see Rom and others take a position that is in line with the Nanyahu government's position, but also makes logical sense at this juncture to slow down military aid to Israel. I don't think it's going to solve all the issues that necessarily will have. have with the base. No, I think, yeah. It's almost, in some ways, it helps him,

but he is also helping other people who would honestly occupy the same lane. He's saying, it's okay to do this. I'm going to, I'll show you the way. And if I can do it, certainly you can do it. Yeah. Right. As someone who also relies heavily on his Jewish heritage

and his, you know, family's immigrant story and all of it. it is definitely. And we do have two other very prominent Jewish Democrats out there and I'm waiting to decide about what to do in 2020. And that's Josh Shapiro and John Osaf, obviously. Assoff obviously has an election beforehand. But it is going to be interesting to see how they navigate these waters, too. Yeah. I mean, right. And Slotkin is Jewish too. And she certainly seems like she's interested in being in the conversation. Yes, Josh Shapiro for sure. And I find a lot of people, People don't seem to know that John Ossoff is Jewish.

So sorry we blew your cover. Hey, you're not blowing a cover. You're promoting a good. Here we go. Yeah. You always got to amplify the tribe. Did Donald Trump curse the U.S. men's soccer team? Yeah.

Like the next first, like his one game he goes. But like how disappointing was last night? And how terrible do you think Flo felt through the whole thing? I saw the Belgian coach saying like, he's, He came to talk to me afterwards, and he's such a good guy, and he knew how terrible the whole situation was. It's like, it's just too much. Yeah. Well, curse is a, I'll use the word curse, sure.

But, like, you know, there was, like, a lot of great vibes happening with the team. Even with the red card, you know, it was a, it was like a shitty thing to happen. And, you know, the call itself was relatively controversial. But, you know, people who I don't play that close danger, but people who do were like, yeah, like, yeah, like, you can see why they gave a red card. And you just got to kind of live with it, but you could also use it to your advantage. You know, we're being, you know,

we're under man, but we're going to fight back and we're going to, like, stick it to the Belgium. And then Trump intervenes and he turns the entire script, all the sort of momentum that we had on its head. And suddenly we're the ones manipulating the rules so that our best striking could get on the field. And we become the object of ridicule and anger. as opposed to the object of fascination and passion.

And I do think that matters. I think there was like whether or not people needed additional motivation in the World Cup. Who knows? But goddamn, like the Belgian players seemed to be extra motivated to like stick it to us. And when their striker hit the fourth goal in an extra time and did the little Trump dance and send a F you to the crowd, you could tell like they wanted to absolutely. They didn't want to just beat us.

They wanted to humiliate us. They didn't have to do the fourth goal. We had lost. They could have gone into the corner and kicked it around and wasted some time. But they absolutely wanted to destroy us and they wanted to humiliate Trump. So, yeah, I think the president stepped in it. I'm willing to say that. That's very bold of you.

I'll also say that the Belgians posted overturn this. Yeah, I saw that one. But on a meta level, and you have little kids as well. And, like, I don't know how old they are. Six and nine. Six and nine. Okay, so you're in the, I'm behind you at four and two, but like they're starting to, the four-year-old at least is starting to like things, right? Like she likes gymnastics more than she likes soccer and like we're figuring it all out. And I think there is an important lesson out of

this World Cup about youth sports culture here and how prohibitively expensive and difficult we make it for kids to get into it. Like in other countries, they invite you and they provide you with all the gear that they need and they'll pick you up and take you to make sure that you can participate in these things as like real community behind it. Like that was the project in Norway, right? And look where they ended up out of this. I mean, I know that this is kind of like a miracle run for them. But I was thinking about that aspect of it that like we just, it's too hard to engage on a competitive level with these sports. Like the stories of what families have to do to get their kids to like AAU basketball or, you know, football, et cetera.

It's harrowing stuff, especially if you don't have means. No doubt about that. Youth sports culture is horrifying. I say that as someone who coached my eldest baseball team for the past couple of years. And I found myself, like, you know, I was like trying to guard against, like, doing the overcompetitive coach dad thing. But, like, you know, I kind of, I was like, I got a. by the umpires for calling for like getting upset at some of the balls and strikes and I'm like reading the emails that I'm getting from like what is happening to me I got to stop this

but you know it's it does sort of it is a factory put it that way and so when you're young and you want to like you know get into sports it it's almost like you can't unless you're like really good and exceptional at it you can't really do it and then on top of that the financial resource and the parental commitments. Like one of my kids is on a swim team. And we do, it's awful. I mean, he's, luckily, he's good enough at swimming that it's like, you can watch it and enjoy it.

But to the folks out there who have kids do not do swimming, it is the worst parenting experience. You do three hours of sitting at a overheated pool. It's muggy and miserable. And you watch your kids for like 30 seconds twice in those three hours. And that's it. That's it. And so anyways, your point is valid.

It's a huge commitment, but the real victims are the parents. Always us. Also, swim is so early in the morning, like, throughout life. And I want to... Did you swim? No. I played tennis through college, and I thought about this a lot. Obviously, we had the Williams sisters, but there's been huge racial barriers to tennis, right?

And I'm watching Cocoa Gough at Wimbledon. And I'm just like, think how many Cocoa Gough's there probably were out there. who just were not given the access or we didn't make these incredible sports and these incredible communities available to them. And like, maybe we would have won that game. I don't know, everything Trump touched. Mark Elias said yesterday,

he's like, everything Trump touches turns corrupt. It's not that it dies. It just turns corrupt. Well, he corrupts it, yeah. Yeah, he does. Sam Stein, it was awesome to have you. Thank you for joining me. Jessica, this was a lot.

like a life experience for me. I'm so happy. I've been waiting. I've been waiting for this invite for months, maybe years, and I finally got it, and I'm circling on my calendar. And now that it's happened, it lived up to the expectations. Yes, 100%. Okay. Thank you. You'll do it again? No.