Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov - Senator Ruben Gallego on Signalgate, Veteran Protections & Winning Male Voters

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

Arizona Senator Ruben Gallego joins Jessica to break down the leaked war planning Signal chat—calling for Secretary Hegseth’s resignation. He also discusses the growing Democratic infighting over party leadership and shares what he’s hearing on the ground at town halls across Arizona, where he’s warning voters about potential cuts to Medicaid and veterans’ benefits. Plus, what Democrats need to do to win back male voters and why his Putting Veterans First Act is crucial for protecting those who served. Follow Jessica Tarlov, @JessicaTarlov.  Follow Sen. Gallego, @SenRubenGallego. Follow Prof G, @profgalloway. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I am not responsible for what my dad did. The score and how you hoped. Happy Face, new series now streaming exclusively on Paramount+. Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlov, and I'm thrilled to have Arizona Senator Ruben Gallego with us. Senator Gallego hasn't been in the Senate long, but is already making a splash. He's been holding town halls across rural Arizona, where he's been talking about the potential cuts to Medicaid and veterans benefits and what that could mean for everyday folks. On top of that, he's pushing forward with the Putting Veterans First Act, a bill that aims to help veterans get back into their federal jobs if they lose them.

Senator Gallego, it's great to have you on the show. Senator Gallego Thanks for having me. Beth Dombkowski It's a big pleasure of mine. I've been waiting a long time in life to be able to talk to you. And I feel like it's the perfect moment on the news of the day front to talk about the Jeffrey Goldberg Atlantic piece where the editor-in-chief was invited into the war planning signal chat. I've seen some of the comments you've posted on X even saying that Secretary Hegseth needs to resign over this. Can you talk a

bit more about how you're feeling and what you're thinking about it? Yeah. I mean, when I first saw this, I was like WTF. It's just like one of those things that you never can imagine actually being real. It's something that came out of VEEP. The problem is this is real serious shit. This is not. We should be very concerned for a couple reasons. Number one, it wasn't just like a signal chat. It was a signal chat of our whole, basically our whole national security team. You know, we had people that were overseas commenting on this signal chat.

And for us that have been involved, I was the past chairman of Intel Special Operations, we know how our enemies have some very good signal gathering capability. And we don't know how far it went and how far it goes when it comes to this group and The fact is like they put men and women in danger You know, obviously when you're about to launch a war you are moving assets around you're moving ships around you're moving men and women around you're exposing make them more vulnerable and

For us that have been in the military you put the whole operation in danger or compromised it because the Houthis may not have the best signal gathering intelligence, but the Iranians certainly do. Russia certainly does, and sometimes we'll feed information to the Houthis and to the Iranians. And if they had gotten a heads up, they may have actually moved some of our targets or their targets that we wanted to target.

All because of a couple of reasons. Number one, simple things that I learned in the Marines called operational security that Pete Hexeth should have known. And number two, they're treating this as a game, right? This is war fighting. People are going to die, whether it's the enemies, hopefully, but sometimes even us. And you can't be treating this as if it's just another Lack of days ago communication and taking it seriously and making sure you're doing everything from one end to the other

Like a professional is what matters and that's why Pete Hicks said at this point has to resign the fact that he was sharing exact Weaponry that he's going to use and targets on a signal chat. It wasn't to clearly be weaponry that he's going to use and targets on a signal chat. It wasn't to clearly be, you know, to clearly show what he needs to be, what needs to be done or whether targeted needs to be approval. It was to show off and that showing off compromised our security. He does not have the maturity. He does not have the experience and nor do I think does he have the confidence of the military at this point. That's interesting. So you're focusing on Secretary Hegsath and it looks like he was the one who was sharing the classified information,

but National Security Advisor Mike Waltz was the one, or at least his team, whoever set up the chat that invited in Jeffrey Goldberg. President Trump has expressed confidence in Waltz. I know him personally and he was one of the big relief points for me in the Trump administration, especially when it comes

to national security and foreign policy. Do you think there will be any real repercussions? You think Waltz is safe in all of this or? I don't know. Look, I know Mike fairly well. I consider him a friend, but he did a very dumbass thing. And someone within his, there's just, I mean, if I had done this, Mike would be all over my ass too. Like he needs to step up and either hold somebody accountable or this is where, you know, the leadership, this is Pete, should be taking the fall because while Mike may have done the mistake of adding this person, and I don't know why he did or his staff did, the real leadership fault is, and the real grave sin here, is Secretary of Defense

sharing targeting locations and the armaments we're going to use. That is just ridiculous. It is dangerous and it's just unbecoming of someone who of that leadership position. Yeah. I think a lot about what would be happening in normal times. So if this were any other administration and the expectation would be that there would be congressional hearings and inquiries, there would be happening in normal times. So if this were any other administration, and the expectation would be that there would be congressional hearings and inquiries, there would be an FBI investigation, there would be a DOJ inquiry, maybe there would be impeachment proceedings.

Do you have any expectation that any of that might actually happen? I doubt it. Look, this is not the courageous time for Republicans. Let's just be clear. There are some that are very concerned. You're going to hear a lot of concerning, you know, Susan Collins on the beat. Susan Collins will show, yeah, she's concerned again. But at the end of the day, they are still afraid of Donald Trump, which scares me because what they should be afraid of is the national security of our armed services. This is a very serious, serious breach. We should have hearings. Maybe the hearings will, you know, give us a better or enlighten more how this happened so we can fix it in the future. Maybe it'll actually pinpoint, not necessarily that it was Secretary of Defense, it could be somebody else within his chain of command.

But the fact that we're going to just, the Republicans are just going to drag, you know, just put this under the rug and hope that everyone forgets about it is what really scares chain of command. But the fact that we're going to just, the Republicans are just going to drag, you know, just put this under the rug and hope that everyone forgets about it is what really scares all of us. What else are they doing on a signal check? I mean, the fact that they're even doing this on a signal check in itself is illegal. But the fact that, you know, there's a, you know, one of the branches of government plus the, uh, their allies in the house and the Senate and going to do everything they can Really to memory hold this and the people that end up losing are our Members of the Armed Services because they end up being weaker because of these actions

I think that's a really important point because anyone who's been on signal knows that people go there for private conversations But also so that the messages can be disappeared right that they're for private conversations, but also so that the messages can be disappeared, right? So that they're 24 hours a week, however much it is. So you think they've been in office for two months. A lot has already gone on. We've been negotiating between Ukraine and Russia. We've been negotiating between Hamas and Israel. So what is being hidden from...

We've been talking to... Moshe's been talking to everybody and trying to shut down every government agency, including Social Security. So what is happening? There's a reason why this all has a standard operating procedure, whether it's on the national security side or on the government side, because this is the way you avoid corruption. This is how you avoid government abuse. And anything that these Republicans are going to do now, we have to be very aware, very constant, that another government can do just as likely four years from now. And we don't want to weaken our, you know, the years and years of laws that we pass to bring more transparency because transparency means you can stop abuse, you can stop fraud.

And when you don't do that, this is what you this is how you find yourself in situations that occurred under Secretary of Defense. Well, you already set a buzzword of the moment, social security, and I wanted to talk to you about the town halls that you've been holding, because I imagine that the theme has been protecting Americans and also the corruption we're seeing in the administration. So could you talk a bit about what it's like on the ground across Arizona in these town halls? Well, I've been particularly going out to rural Arizona, red Arizona, some people will

call it, because I want to remind people that when we talk about government programs, the areas that get hurt the most are actually rural America. Where I was, for example, down in Cochise County, 33% of the population of Cochise County is on Medicaid, right? And 50% of the hospitals there, 50% of their funds come from Medicaid. So when you severely cut Medicaid, you're cutting some of the few hospital systems in rural Arizona. People in Arizona are going to have to travel hours and hours sometimes to get basic routine because that doctor that was relying on Medicaid as part of this mix

is probably not going to take as many patients now or is just going to close up and leave. Social Security is another good example. For Arizona, there are parts of Arizona in order for you to get to quote unquote the big city, it will be a six hour drive. And so when you have assholes like Ian Amuss saying like you have to show up to prove who you are in order to get your social security, this is a huge burden on people from rural Arizona. First of all, do they have the vehicles? Second of all, do you even have the gas? And do they have the time? Six-hour drive is a long drive. People and maybe in the Northeast don't think about that. But for

six hours in Arizona, that is a... You're going through a lot of empty empty terrain And good luck if you don't make your appointment or something else happens You have to come back that is what Elon Musk is and his little doji boys are trying to do they don't understand Government they don't understand real people They're a bunch of Silicon Valley elites that will never ever ever rely on Social Security and probably will never even have to you know You can try to enroll in it but this is what's gonna happen to 50% of Arizonans because we are severe that our 50% of Arizona's are dependent on Social Security as part of their income and

You know, they're hurt they're scared and they have no one answering to them So the fact that I'm out there talking to them, the reason they're just happy to hear from me, and I'm not, most of them are Republicans to be honest, they're just happy that someone's talking to them because they're Republican members of Congress aren't talking to them. I also did a town hall just for veterans in Sierra Vista, which is a very Republican city.

It's a military town. And my town hall was just packed with people from, you know, coming all the way from the BNM war to OIF, Operation Record Freedom, which I was part of, and Operation Enduring Freedom, which is Afghanistan. And people are worried. They're talking about their benefits being cut. They're talking about the longer wait times. People are worried about their jobs.

These are veterans that left service of the country in the military and wanted to serve the country more in government. And they're being treated like total assholes. And that's the thing that really annoys me. And I think it should annoy everybody. They like the thing that they're doing is not just slashing. They're treating these people like subhuman, these Americans, these veterans. They're not just saying like, hey, we're going to cut your job at the end of the year.

We should give you some time for you to go find your, find another job. Here's some severance. They're saying this is your last paycheck. Oh, by the way, I don't care if you're pregnant. This has happened. You're off government health care next week or your insurance plan next week. I don't care if you're going through some type of chemo, some type of therapy right now.

You're not getting insurance for the rest of the year. You're going to get it for whatever is left of the month. This is what Elon Musk is doing to thousands and thousands of American veterans who have done nothing wrong except try to serve their country. And the fact that Republicans who claim to be the party of veterans now are just bowing to this rich, out-of-touch elite just so he could keep giving them their donations should tell you where the real heart of Republicans is and is

right now. Do you find that there's a fissure or at least a separation in the way that the folks that you're talking to feel about Donald Trump versus Elon Musk Because must definitely seems from the data to be the vulnerability in the administration versus the president himself. I think now there is a Join together of the issues and mostly people are saying still giving Donald Trump credit Say but it's it's not good credit. Like mostly I'm hearing, well, he looks weak. He's only doing this for Elon's money. Why is he helping Elon get more tax cuts?

Now they're putting it together. They're still giving him the benefit of the doubt in some regards, but the fact is it looks like they're going to put them together, and I would say probably at the voting booth probably punish them both. And it's not like Elon Musk is gonna go anywhere It's not like the things that he's cutting are going

Anywhere, you know, you're cutting people out of Social Security whether you like it or not making it more difficult people to enroll You're making it different people get on the phone to actually talk to somebody when your Social Security is cut you know the fact that the president went at the state of union and lied about Social Security and Thinking that social security recipients can detect that lie. They did. Democrats of independence saw that it was a lie and they know that he knows that he was lying and they're not willing to accept it. For a long time, let's be clear, there's a lot of voters that accepted Donald Trump's lies knowing that they were lies, knowing and knowing that he knew they were lies, but

they were all in kind of alignment. But the fact that they went after Social Security, the way he did at the State of the Union, I think that was very jarring to them. And they're going to hit a big surprise. And it's not just that, you know, your Social Security, it's not just your government workers. Look, I'm hearing this from firefighters, police officers. These are people that are young and largely Republican. And when I'm out there talking, you know, whether I'm in the community or just going

anywhere, they'll tell me like they're worried about their country. And these are guys that will vote, and they're guys, they will vote Republican, they have voted Republican, they didn't even vote for me. And now they're telling me that they're worried what's happening. So there is something coming up, there's a wave coming up. And I think people aren't seeing it, and I think Republican Party's just gonna be in denial all the way to the end.

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free on Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never. Do you feel like the Democrats are meeting the moment? So you're a special test case for our party. You won in a very tough environment for Democrats. Trump won by five points in Arizona. You were able to win. And a few other swing state Senate Democrats were able to pull it off. And you're quite a moderate person. You certainly push back when it needs to be, like on immigration, for instance, with the sending people who

shouldn't be in an El Salvadorian prison camp down there. You're going to say something about that. But do you feel like Chuck Schumer is up to the task at this particular moment? And how are you balancing the fact that our party seems to want moderate policies, but also a fighter? Yeah, well, I don't think Chuck was up to the task when it came to the CR, just to be clear. And I made it very clear to him. And I also made it clear going forward what I expect from him and from leadership. I think it was a horrible strategic mistake of how he handled it. He says that that was the best he knew, he was

running on the best information. Okay, that's fine, but that's not going to be acceptable going forward. But I think it's also incumbent upon all Democrats to step up. And I think, you know, if you're a moderate to conservative Democrat, get out there and talk because what we're talking about are fairly moderate and conservative things, right? Preserving social security, something Americans paid for for their whole lives, making sure you're able to access it, because people are depending it as part of their retirement mix. Making sure that we're not cutting Medicaid to give extremely rich people a tax cut is not just moderate, it's fairly popular across the board.

Protecting veterans at the VA as well as government employees across the board is something that I think is moderate. And I think what people want is someone out there to fight for these positions, not necessarily on the liberal to conservative spectrum. Even when it comes to immigration, I keep having this problem with my colleagues, they think it's an either or,

that we have to either be fully for a very liberal immigration and border policy, or we have to be for the draconian policies that this president's using. No, you can be in the middle on this too. You can say, you know what, I want bad people that have entered this country illegally to be deported, right? I want people that have criminal records to be deported. Heck, I want people to have criminal records that are really dangerous to be deported, right? I want people that have criminal records to be deported. Heck, I want people that have criminal records that are really dangerous to be reported to other countries' prisons, but I want due process to make sure they are who they are actually saying they are, right? Something we expect any good country to do. While at the same time I can want immigration

reform, while at the same time I can want DREAMers to become US citizens, and I want people that have been in this country for years. For example, there's a couple that just got deported back to Colombia, who have been in this country for 30 years. No criminal record. They've been trying to get themselves right with the government. They have three children. They have grandchildren.

They had a house. Everything else is like, why did we deport these people? Why? No reason. They're not a threat to society. All of this is because Donald Trump and Elon Musk and some of these Republicans, all they really care about is hitting these quotas. And so by whatever means, they're going to go and grab people however they can.

And us as Democrats need to really have a good answer to that. And the answer isn't going to be stop. The answer shouldn't be go. The answer should be like, let's work together on doing something that actually is going to bring us security, but also align with our values as a great country. Do you think there is any possibility of that happening? I can't see a gang of eight or a gang of six

coming out of this. Not the way that it is right now. I mean, honestly, I thought the CR was gonna give us a good example to do that, but then when we lost our leverage on that, I think that that went out the window. I think at some point it will come back because the Trump deportation plan is really expensive and it's not actually that effective. You know, what you're seeing is 200 people put it in a plane to El Salvador.

That's, you know, to distract you from the fact that the deportations aren't going well. And I'm not saying that just because I have statistics. Like I actually have friends, one of the benefits of growing up in Arizona and growing up in working-class areas, like I have friends that are Border Patrol and ICE agents and they're telling me that they're having a tough time picking up people because a lot of people are hiding. You know, a lot of people have hiding. A lot of people have moved. A lot of the information you're using is old. And some of the people they are trying to pick up, once they get to them, they do an

investigation and find out that most of them have already started the process or are in the process of becoming legalized, and it makes it even more difficult. And so you're going to see a lot of these flashes to distract from the fact that this has been an overall failure when it comes to deportations. There are still individual gross examples that we're hearing and seeing. For example, the stylist that was sent to Salvador, these Colombians I was just telling about. But on a whole, they have failed so far on mass deportation.

And so they're going to try to make it up by whatever means possible. Now, what does that look like? It could just be even worse, doing worksite raids, things of that nature, which will eventually hurt our economy and hurt our communities. Yeah. It does seem like that shift has happened faster than I even expected on how people feel about the economy. So on immigration, that's the only area that Trump has a positive rating on, about 55%

approval. His ratings on handling cost of living, inflation, all the things that he told us he was going to fix are tanking quickly. We just didn't talk about them anymore. No, well- This is the thing, he talks about immigration. And think about it, the reason he's tanking is because he doesn't talk about them anymore. No, well. He talks about immigration. And think about it, the reason he's tanking is because he doesn't talk about it anymore because he knows he, whatever he needs to do to fix that, he doesn't want to do it,

right? That's the problem. And I think people are giving him way too much grace. You can fix some of these problems. You can help fix the price of eggs by making sure that chickens are properly vaccinated against avian flu. You can bring down the cost of living by not engaging these tariff wars

that are gonna hurt working class Americans. You can increase the wages by not cutting some of the regulations that we're increasing wages, especially for federal contract employees. All these things he can do, but he doesn't want to do because it'll piss off someone along in his base. So instead he's just gonna

focus on the things that he knows he can do maybe fairly well when it comes to immigration, but he's no longer talking about health care. He's talking about cutting health care. You know, this is where, this is why this is his prime focus because it's the only thing that keeps his coalition together and in the end it screws Americans. Yeah, and healthcare is also... It feels like the only bright spot, at least in terms of what Democrats can be talking about, because it's something central to the way everyone lives.

Pretty high approval for Obamacare. Certainly people like their Medicare and their Medicaid. And we're the only ones that seem at this moment like, we actually give a fuck about what's going on in people's everyday lives Which leads me to David Shores big data dump last week I know well, we're only two months into the administration isn't crazy. I Think it's been forever. I had to go there. Yeah, but I wanted to get your take on

I had to go there. But I wanted to get your take on what happened during the election, kind of now a few months in, and we have a lot more clarity and we know about the groups that have really separated themselves from the Democratic Party, young voters, Latino voters, young people in general. I should know just not just men, but some women as well, most conservative generation. know just not just men but some women as well most conservative generation and you know what's your kind of post-mortem in general and how do you think we can win some of those voters back specifically men which I know has been a big focus for you. Well we should just try talking to them number one like there's just a lot of Democrats don't even try talking to men we don't try to

talk to them as us as a interest group. And I think, you know, this sounds weird when it comes from Democrats, but I do believe that there is a problem within men in this country. And the fact is, like, we don't even talk about it. We don't talk about the fact that they have the lowest college attainment rate ever, that they're living at home with their parents, that they're not buying homes, they're not having success. And women are having success. It's not that they have it easy either,

but we don't even talk about it. And also like some of it is, people wanna say like, oh, you gotta grow it up. That's not the case at all. I don't think I grow it up at all. But I do talk about understanding the pressure of being a father. The fear you have about not being able to provide

for your son and daughter. I have two kids now. I have another one coming. And the fact that we should respect fathers and mothers. And I think for some reason as a party, we felt it was cheapish to do that. I was talking to another congressman from a swing district, and I won't be able to do it this year because my son is going to be born right near Father's Day, but I wanted to do Father's Day appreciation breakfast.

I was talking to this swing congressman, he said he's never done something like that. I'm like, yeah, but I bet you've done Mother's Day appreciation breakfast. He's like, I have. I'm like, why? Why don't you do a Father's Day appreciation breakfast? He's like, because I'm afraid I'm going to get yelled at. Well, we are so focused on trying to not piss off somebody within our own camp that we're losing the opportunity to talk to these other people and bring them in. And then lastly, when the data

tells you there's a problem, believe that there's a problem. And the reason that we outperformed not just Harris, but all the other senators, mind you, Arizona has a 300,000 more voter registration Republicans are 300,000 more voter registration, 300,000 more Republican Republicans than Democrats in Arizona. I don't have the numbers that Nevada has. I don't have the numbers that Michigan has. I wish I had those numbers. But we have to accept reality when we heard that people were still pissed off about the economy. We couldn't lie to ourselves and say like, well, you know, inflation is going down and wages are going up. That's not what was happening. You heard it at the doors. You heard it, you know, talking to voters. I heard it in the grocery store and I heard it from, you know,

Latino men who really, really felt that they had been abandoned. And these are men that believe they could work their way out of any problem. They'll add an extra job, they'll cut here, cut there. And the Democrats just never wanted to really talk to them in a way that would help them kind of at least assuage fears because we wanted to believe the lie that was not actually in front of us. And look, when it comes to young people, like why were young people moving away from us? Two reasons.

Number one, they're graduating into a world that they think they didn't deserve. Their parents had houses. Their parents had steady jobs. They were graduating into no houses, no steady job, and debt. And the democratic answer wasn't much a great answer to that. We also are stuck on this idea that we are the culturally cool people, but we really are culturally cool because people that are aligned with us are culturally cool, but our candidates aren't necessarily that way. And we are still trying to run campaigns, you know, as if they were 20 years ago, right? We, you know, I ran against Carey Lake. Carey Lake ran a way better campaign

when it came to going on podcasts and going on all these kind of niche media that I think even Shore or one of the other political nerds talked about a couple of weeks ago, right? The thing that we did is that we didn't really have access to those types of podcasts. We were very insistent on creating a certain type of attitude and vibe that we knew would go viral.

It wasn't necessarily policy heavy or focused, but enough that we knew that it would attract the environments that we wanted to. So for Latino men, we emphasize sports. We emphasize talking at town halls with working class men. I would go to morning shift changes and hand out morning breakfast burritos to the men that were leaving their shift changes and hand out morning breakfast burritos to the men that were leaving their shift changes. You know, we had massive, you know, boxing watch parties, soccer parties, all these things that helped kind of create this understanding. Hey, this guy actually understands us, right? With young people, we did the same thing.

We were very much focused on trying to get our message out to them and not just on, you know, through social media or through paid social media. So, you know, we have to run the campaigns to win. Right now we're running campaigns to not piss off our own base, not piss off staff sometimes, which is even crazier to me, not piss off interest groups that are either gonna have to vote for us anyway, or we're never gonna vote for us anyway.

And, you know, not running the campaigns that actually are designed to win. Right now they're designed to basically create plug and play that goes back from all the way to the 1980s, and it's not working. It just isn't. What you're describing inherently is a willingness to have intra-party fighting and criticism, and that that's healthy, and that everyone is running their individual races. I think that's also very much the vibe that AOC and Bernie are embodying on this fighting oligarchy tour. Do you think that's the way forward for us to be able to win back people's trust and

hopefully more seats? Look, I do think it's okay for us to have healthy discussions I do think it's okay for us to have healthy discussions who we are as a party. At the core though, people that are 95% in line with you are 95% your ally. They're not 5% your enemy or they're not 95% your enemy as some of these groups think. I think about this all day because people are pissed at me for here and there and saying that Kerry Lake should have just won. I'm like, okay, so would Kerry Lake be trying to defend Medicaid? Would Kerry Lake be pro-labor right now? I sign up to the pro act.

Would Kerry Lake be willing to pass immigration reform? Would Kerry Lake be willing, would be as pro-choice as I am? No, but because of one or two votes or because I talk to Republicans, all of a sudden I am the devil. Again, we're 95% allies. Let's work on that. And guess what? For that 5%, let's keep talking. People change over time. Politics change over time. But this has gotten to the point where within this big tent that like people just basically are stabbing each other when we can all be working together what what AOC and Bernie are doing is good. It's good that they're out there talking and getting people excited. It's good

that we have moderate members that are doing the same thing. It's good that we're all trying to fight for the same thing. By the way, we're all saying the same thing too. We're all in alignment. These rich people should not be cutting poor people programs to make themselves richer. That's exactly what we're saying. Now they have different words, I have different words, that's fine.

But that's a true tense. Not the kind of infighting that I've seen in the last couple years. I totally agree with you. There is a very simple theme on this and it can be focused on the other side without going after one another in these ugly primaries that they're threatening.

It's way easier to fight. It's very easier for us to fight when we're, fight each other when we're actually in power. Right now, what are we fighting over? None of us are in power. No, that's the mother of a toddler. Sometimes it really feels like the same vibes as when I pick her up at the community center.

I wanted to up at the community center. I wanted to give you the opportunity to talk about your putting veterans first bill. Yeah, I mean look, it's a very simple bill. It restores all the cuts at the VA and it rehires every veteran across the federal government. It does provide for an avenue for them to be fired, but it's an avenue that you have to prove that they are negligent, that they are not good workers, that their job is no longer needed, right? And it's just simple, right?

We're trying to give these men and women dignity, stability, and it really does matter. I'm going to tell you, coming back from the war, the guys that did the best with, I mean, and all of us have it to some extent or not, with PTSD and being able to adjust the fastest back in society were the ones that were able to get good, meaningful jobs. And the fact that they're just arbitrarily firing these veterans, you're going to have increases in suicide. You're going to have increases in a lot of other seriously mentally ill part of me whether it's the need for more therapy or anything else like that

just because you are traumatizing people that you have been using or have been at work and been using it as a stable part of their lives and there's it's just unnecessary. It is absolutely unnecessary. How much is this going to save the federal government? Almost negligible, especially when you're only trying to cut it to give tax cuts to these dudes that don't need it. And the fact that you're handing over this power to a bunch of out of touch elitists

that probably do not know any veterans, don't have any veterans in their family whatsoever, and they're just kicking them out without any thought, any respect, any dignity. It's embarrassing. You know, veterans are gonna be talking about this for the rest of their lives. You know, we've gotten, a lot of us got screwed already. We got screwed coming back, we got screwed going to the Iraq War, we got screwed coming back from the Iraq War. Some of us that are finally putting our lives together are getting screwed again by that state government

just to appease this guy who has zero understanding and is probably one of the most least patriotic people I've ever met. And it also connects on a very important level to what you were talking about with men and talking about men's wellbeing and that the core of that is being able to have a good stable job that you can provide for your family.

And provide for your family, provide security for your family, and also gives you meaning in life and in your community. Yeah. I wanted to ask you, so at the end of these interviews, I always ask what's one thing that makes you rage and one thing that you think that we should all calm down about?

Oh man. I know the rage one always gets people. They're like, I have 50 things to talk about. No, actually, I'm overall a fairly, like... mod person, just because, like, you know, I grew up in a household of me and four women, Latino women. And then went to the Marines. So I'm actually way more even-killed than I think

than I should be, right? I do think we need to be raging about veterans, to be honest. This is going to have massive, massive problems, generational problems they were creating. You are going to take people that have adjusted themselves after some very hard trauma and throwing them back out, some of these people back into the streets.

And when you, and you know, I was just at a veteran's homeless shelter. When they get into the streets, it's almost harder to get them out. And it enrages me because it's not necessary. Hell, you could do all of this and just exempt veterans, but because there's some level of, I don't know, malevolence or just disrespect from this administration to

veterans, they don't care. They just absolutely don't care. So we should be raging about that. What we shouldn't be raging about, you know, some of these things that end up being kind of social policy wars, not that they're not important, but they're not the most important right now. And I think it's important that we focus on stabilizing our democracy, stopping these massive tax cuts.

And once we do that, then we could get back into the nitty gritty of some of these like social policy issues. But right now, a lot of times, even if we want to do this, the American public's not with us. And, you know, as I try to tell some of my colleagues, like there's some hills we just can't die on, because if we die on those hills, we can't fight for anything else. And, you know, that's where I leave that at least. I agree with you. If it's an 80-20 issue, and we're on the wrong side of it, maybe we should move on. Exactamente. Anyway, thank you so much for your time. It was great to talk with you.

Adios. Adios.