Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov - Trump Voters Love this Democratic Governor (ft. Gov. Andy Beshear)

Episode Date: March 12, 2026

The U.S. has already spent more than $11 billion in the first week of fighting with Iran. Gas prices are nearing a four-year high, and tensions across the Middle East are rapidly escalating. Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov sit down with Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear, one of the most popular governors in the country, to discuss the growing conflict with Iran, the human and financial costs of war, and the death of Benjamin Pennington, a Kentucky soldier killed in the fighting. Governor Beshear also weighs in on a new lawsuit from the United States Department of Justice seeking access to voter registration databases across multiple states, including Kentucky. Plus: how a Democrat wins over Donald Trump voters in a deep-red state, why Beshear vetoed a bill restricting gender-affirming care, and what the future of the Democratic Party actually looks like. Follow Jessica Tarlov, @JessicaTarlov Follow Prof G, @profgalloway Follow Raging Moderates, @RagingModeratesPod Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@RagingModerates Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We'd love to talk. Business. Megan Rompino here. This week on a Touchmore, Juju Watkins joins us to talk about her year off of the court, but definitely not on the sidelines. We're also looking at the upsets coming out of the SEC tournament and how that might impact selection Sunday

and the intergenerational span of U.S. players on display at the She Believes Cup. Plus, we have a surprise guest. You won't want to miss it. Check out the latest episode of our podcast at Touchmore, wherever you get your podcast, and on YouTube. How can we understand the decisions facing the United States and Israel and Iran as they weigh next moves in this war? War that was meant to prevent from reaching a bomb eventually might push them beyond the Rubicon and to have that war. I'm John Feiner.

And I'm Jake Sullivan. And we're the hosts of The Long Game, a weekly national security podcast. This week, former Israeli Defense Intelligence Officer Danny Sintrinoids joins us from Israel to discuss the war against Iran. The episode's out now. Search for and follow The Long Game, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Scott Galloway. And I'm Jessica Tarlov. Today we're joined by Governor Andy Bashir, who has been the governor of Kentucky since 2019. Governor Bashir, thank you so much for making the time to be with us today. Happy to be on. Thanks for the invitation. Before we start, if you aren't already, please make sure to subscribe to our YouTube page to get up-to-date coverage on everything happening. All right, so let's bust right into it. The U.S. has spent over $11 billion in the first week of fighting with Iran.

Gas prices are nearing a four-year high. The U.S. is releasing 172 million barrels from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. Israel is bombarding Lebanon, and Iran continues to retaliate against U.S. and its allies across the region. And just a few days ago, we learned that the seventh U.S. service member to die in this conflict was Army Sergeant Benjamin Pennington, a Kentucky resident. He died Sunday after sustaining injuries during an attack in Saudi Arabia. Governor, what are your views here? So should the U.S. be in this war, or is there a different scale of operation you would have supported? Well, let me first say we're thinking about the family of the soldier from Glendale, Kentucky, the seventh fatality. The other six were not from Kentucky, but they were under the command of a group out of Fort Knox, and so we grieve for them. As I think about this conflict, I always start with the thought that first, the U.S. military is exceptional, and even if we disagree with the decision makers, we need to support

those troops. And the second piece that the Iranian regime had murdered tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people and foster terrorism all throughout the world. But with that said, if you are going to put American troops in harm's way, the first thing you have to have is a clear justification. And the justification of the Trump administration has changed, what, four times over 10 days, and it keeps changing. The second is you need an imminent threat to move from diplomacy to use of force. It appears Donald Trump wants to start with force and then maybe get to diplomacy. The third, and Iraq and Afghanistan should have taught us this, is you have to have a plan for day two. What does winning look like?

What is the result? You know, we hear Donald Trump now saying unconditional surrender after he previously said regime change. And then he says, but we're killing anyone who might be able to surrender. There is no clear plan by this administration for what winning looks like. And then the last piece is you've got to conduct it in a way that gives time for our troops to prepare so that we can reduce or eliminate casualties, as well as for people to get out of the region, which did not happen. So what is clear here is that Donald Trump, you know, ordered these strikes without doing

the preparation, without doing his homework. He's talked about wanting it to go like Venezuela did. That means he didn't take the time to understand the Iranian society in this Iranian regime because they are very clearly different. So given we are where we are here and now, if the administration were to call you and say, what would your advice be for the war moving forward? If you were President Bashir right now,

they inaugurated you tonight, how would you handle this war? What would you do? Given where we are, I think that what winning looks like has to be the elimination of the Navy and the missile. capacities, elimination of an ability to make a nuclear bomb. I believe that the aim of regime change

is not realistic, and we do not know what we get on the other side. Right now, what we have is the son of a leader that we killed, that is likely more radical even than his father. They should have identified who might be able to step in and fill the gap to make sure that we could, in the end, have at least a regime that we could work somewhat better with. And before I toss it back to Jess, of those objectives you outline, how far along do you think we are against those objectives? And in your view, based on what you've seen so far, how much longer would we need to be engaged in this war to achieve those objectives? Well, I don't get the briefings that Congress is supposed to, but I don't think is actually

getting. And remember, Donald Trump told us that he previously destroyed all the nuclear capabilities. I think he used the word annihilated, so it's pretty interesting to hear him talk about it now. We ought to be close, if not, potentially there, with the impact that this is having on American families that are already struggling, with his refusal to justify it to the American people directly. I will say he was in Hebron, Kentucky yesterday. He very briefly, very briefly mentioned the fact that we are at war with another country, and he did not mention. the casualties whatsoever with Fort Knox being, what, 30 minutes away in Glendale, which lost a son of Kentucky being about an hour away. And that's just wrong. It concerns me

about his view of human life. Yeah, I actually wanted to touch on that because I was watching the rally and something that was conspicuously missing was Donald Trump did not name check you. And when he goes to the state with a Democratic governor, he loves to talk about them and insult them. But that is not what happened here. So, yes, he ignored talking about the soldiers. We've even seen Pete Hegsess do that. And the chairman of the Joint Chiefs is usually the one who does the right thing. But you are in a very interesting position as a Democrat that leads a red state. You are also the most popular Democratic governor in the country, Josh Shapiro, just below you. How do you manage keeping your voters and your constituents supportive of you,

and the way that you govern, and the fact that you are in opposition to a lot of them and to the president that many of them deeply love. Well, what we see in Kentucky is people voting both for President Trump and for me. And when I look at my job, I don't view it as being the best Democratic governor I can be,

but the best governor of Kentucky. And so when this president does something that hurts Kentucky, I stand up to him. I've sued him at least a dozen times that have been very vocal about it. When his administration does something good, their FEMA response after our floods last year was actually very good on the ground. And I found it ironic that he wants to eliminate FEMA. And it was the best performing part of his administration that I could see.

But for my own credibility, if I don't talk about this president in a positive way when he does something good, then I don't think I can talk about him in a negative way when he does something bad. I'm not sure they know exactly how to take that. I think they're used to direct adversarial relationship, but I'm pragmatic. My job is to create the most jobs to expand health care, to build safe roads and bridges. And so when I need to work with this administration, I'm going to because that's what my people expect. But why do I think I continue to have the support of about 65% of the people of Kentucky while suing Donald Trump? They know I'm not doing it because I'm a Democrat.

they know on doing it because I think it's the right thing to do. I like that a lot. And another example where I think you've towed the line really well is the investment from Apple. So now all of our iPhone, all our screens are produced in Kentucky. And that investment came under the Trump administration, which he loves to brag about. That is the gorilla glass that is made by Corning in a facility in Kentucky in Herodzburg. That's going to lead to more jobs. And what I always say in Kentucky is there.

ain't nothing Democrat or Republican about a good job. I will take the investment from anyone who wants to make it. We actually have a really big project in Western Kentucky that has a lot of investors, and Peter Thiel is one of them. And I even pointed this out in my state of the Commonwealth in that there have to be some things that aren't partisan or aren't even bipartisan, but are nonpartisan. And so a new investment that creates jobs for our people where they're not going to check their political registration when they come in. If they pay, good wages, if they have good benefits, that's something really good for my people. And I just wish that before we argued about the 20 percent of things that people probably disagree on, we would

work on those bread and butter issues, that 80 percent that we should be able to come together on and move a country, not right or left, but just move it forward for most of our people. I totally agree with you. And you mentioned that you're suing the Trump administration and do that regularly. Right now, the Department of Justice is suing 30 states for their voter roles. Kentucky is one of them. We are all kind of five-alarm fire over the integrity of our elections and what they are plotting since we saw Tulsi Gabbard popping up in Fulton County, et cetera. Can you tell us about what's going on there and how Kentucky is protecting the integrity of their elections? Yeah, our board of elections is pushing back, and I'm proud of them for that.

But this isn't the only area. This administration, is trying to get my residence individual, personal, confidential data. The same thing that you try to protect so that people can't steal your identity. That's what the government, the Trump administration, is asking for. And we've already seen at least one of those tech bros that worked for Doge ran off with a whole bunch of social security numbers of U.S. citizens. It is my job to protect that information. Now, in the broader sense, when we look at elections coming up, it's amazing how this president says the quiet thing out loud.

First, he says we should redistrict because otherwise we're going to lose, so let's just cheat. And now the bill he's trying to push through Congress, he's saying if we just change the rules and reduce the number of people that can vote, then we'll win. I mean, how wild is it that he's willing to say we should rig an election out loud when he falsely claims one was rigged in the election. the past. I do think, though, that this administration grossly underestimates the American people in so many ways. If they try to send ICE agents around polling stations, if they try to intimidate voters, I think we will see longer lines than we have ever seen. I think people will be singing in those lines. I think hardcore Republicans will vote Democrat because you don't mess with somebody's individual polling place in their community and threaten people that they know. I don't

I believe that if they really want to take that and push that, that we will see this welling of democracy and people's commitment to it. So I want you to imagine that you're running for president. Can you imagine that, Covenant of Chair? Well, let's – I'll try. Okay. Think about it really hard. Your two or three signature issues, if – unfortunately, in the campaign, it gets distilled down

to some very disciplined and kind of limited messaging. What would a President Bashir's core signature issues and policies be? Well, it'd be the American dream. We've got to be more than just against Donald Trump. We have to be for the American people. I think the two biggest concerns I have for the country are the level of division. So whoever's next has to not only win, they've got to be able to heal this country. But the second piece is the number of people who no longer believe that if you work hard

and play by the rules that you can get ahead. if we lose that American dream, if that flame is extinguished in the minds of our people, our country will suffer. So what does that mean? It means working towards jobs with better wages. In Kentucky, we've had five of our best years ever on record. Our average new wage last year was almost $30 an hour. That's the idea that you can not only pay your grocery bill at the end of the month, but you ought to be able to take your kids on the same vacation that you went on. If the American Dream starts with a job, it lives in a home. And right now, the average age of new homeownership is 40.

So we have to make an aspirational investment in housing all over the United States because we can't let multiple additional generations go by without that ability for homeownership. You know, the American Dream is supposed to be a long life where you raise your kids and spoil your grandkids, but that's not going to be possible with the cuts from the big, ugly bill. What that's going to do is devastate not only rural health care, but it's going to devastate rural economies because the hospitals it's going to close are the largest payrolls in their community. And if you do that, then the local coffee shop, bank, insurance company, restaurant, all close as well. And the American Dream is one where you feel safe. You know, in Kentucky, we have pushed actual long-term policies, not stunts like Donald Trump, that make people safer. We are teaching a skilled trade in every one of our prisons right now.

And what is that done? It's reduced our recidivism rate. Future crimes that we're going to occur are not occurring. And thus, there's no traumatized family. There's no lost individual. And so what I think you would see from me is a focus on people's everyday lives, knowing that it is way too hard to get by right now. But wanting more than just you thinking that life will be a little bit easier,

I want to make sure that we've reinvigorated that American dream where you believe your life can be much better and you can leave your kids better off than you had it. So, Governor, along the lines of making people's lives better, data reflects, and this is something we talk a lot about here on the show, that young men in Kentucky are falling behind across several key indicators. Men age is 25 to 34, significantly less likely than women to have college degrees. male labor force participation has declined as coal and manufacturing jobs have gone away. Men account for roughly three quarters of overdose deaths and many rural counties in Kentucky faced persistent under-employment and rising social isolation among young men. What specific policies is your administration pursuing to address these interconnected challenges that face your young men, particularly in education, workforce, or opportunities,

and addiction recovery. So in many of these areas, we are seeing significant, if not dramatic improvement. Our manufacturing mid-last year was at the highest it had been since 2006, while most of the country is bleeding manufacturing jobs, we're adding a number of them. And thank goodness, our drug overdose deaths have gone down three straight years. And for the first time last year, or the last data we had, it was. was a 30% drop and it was across all different demographics. Because sadly, those first two years, we had seen decreases in overdose deaths, but not in our African American community, which we now

are at the same level. I think what it is is whether it's young men or others, it's being intentional. It's listening to the specific concerns and then putting the right type of policies in place. It's personal to meet. I have a 16-year-old son who's navigating this world. First, on the education side, I want as many kids who want to to go to college, but in this world that we live in now, and especially as it's impacted by AI, I believe that there are important paths that don't include college as well. What we've done is invest about $300 million in our career and technical education centers, knowing that advanced manufacturing is entirely different, knowing that building EV or storage batteries is entirely different, and renovating

those to modern standards. So we have robotic students and nursing students and welders all working together and all supporting each other because that welding job makes as much as a white collar job right now. On the overdose side, we have this program called Recovery Ready Communities, where we are certifying every area of the state once they get up to the very best of services that they can. It's those wraparound services. It's ensuring that they're second chance employment, but I will say the big, ugly bill and the devastating cuts that's going to have to Medicaid are going to make treating addiction that much more difficult. But we are seeing headway, and I think for me, it's just that young men need to feel

included and heard. Our young people are facing a tougher world today than I think most any generation has seen. The toxicity of social media, where I remember, I remember growing up, if somebody said something negative about you, you thought everybody knew. Well, now they can put it out there for everybody to know. And so on my podcast, the Andy Bashir podcast, we actually have had multiple panels of high schoolers, of university students, of folks in their 20s. And I try to sit there and listen to make sure that I know what those main challenges are. And what I'm hearing from so many is some of the answer is community, a closer relationship, bringing more of those young men into community.

But to do that, we also have to be inclusive to ensure that there is a place at the table for them. I want to stay on that theme of community and inclusivity and talk about it in reference to the future of the party. Since Donald Trump won in 2024, there's been a lot of progressives and moderates or centrists or whatever. yapping at each other and fighting, like, this is the way forward. You know, it's Mamdani, it's Spanberger, it's Tala Rico, it's Mikey Cheryl. Where do you think the party should be going in order to not only win elections, but to deliver the goods, which is really what matters the most and why you have a 65% approval rating?

And as someone who is viewed as more centrist, certainly, you know, if you are going to run for president, you'll be up on stage with like an AOC, right? And you're going to look pretty conservative on a relative basis. So how are you thinking about the future of the party? Yeah, I wouldn't describe myself as progressive or moderate. I'm pragmatic. You know, my goal is to better the lives of the people of Kentucky. And the approach that I'm going to take is one that gets the best results as quickly as possible. If I can give one criticism to our entire party at different times, it's a lack of of urgency. If we believe that internet is the infrastructure of today and that everyone deserves access to it, how do we create a program that takes six years and there isn't a single

inch of fiber in the ground? The idea that we believe that we need new and better jobs, but we might have so many regulations in place that the construction of a facility would take two and a half years instead of one and a half. So for me, it's about how do I deliver that better life and do it with the level of urgency that we need. In eastern Kentucky, we are engaged in what I think is the most ambitious rebuild after a natural disaster at the country's seen. So that's Appalachia. And what we've seen is flood after flood after flood. So we're moving people out of the hollers, which is the valleys, up on top of former coal mines that had flattened the mountains. We are putting brand new infrastructure up there.

We're putting broadband. We actually have solar panels on all the houses, so it's not just an affordable home to buy, but the average utility bill is going to be about $50 a month. That's true, affordable housing. But what we've learned is if the government does that first part, which is really the utility work, that we can do it much faster than the private sector. And so now we're looking at, well, what could the government? that look like in other housing development across our state and across the country. Very similar

to what we do for infrastructure if we're trying to encourage a new factory to come to Kentucky. Okay, let's take a quick break. Stay with us. Welcome back. There is an area, and I totally respect the pragmatic approach, but you have been a test case for the party in terms of how to deal with culture war issues pretty effectively, especially when it comes to the LGBTQ plus community. There was an anti-trans bill about gender affirming care that you vetoed a few years ago and suffered no political blowback from it and became a talking point across, you know, the Democratic national consensus. Can you talk about your approach to these culture war issues that I feel, at least, you know,

working in a conservative media environment, it dominates? Like, they would rather talk about trans issues than they would talk about the economy or how immigration enforcement is being carried out. So what do you think is the right approach there? For me, it's a three-part approach. I will always stand up for my convictions. I will always push back against discrimination. I vetoed not just every anti-LGB Plus bill, but every anti-DGI bill. I vetoed anti-choice bills.

But the people of my state know that I spend... 80% of my time on things that matter to 100% of the people of Kentucky. It's that idea that they could disagree with me on a culture war issue, but they know 80% of my time is about creating better jobs, better wages, is about expanding health care so they can see a doctor in their own community, is about having the safest roads and bridges that they drive every day to work and to church and drop their kids to school. It's about making the very best education available in our public schools and ensuring that people are not only safe in their community, but feel safe. It's that idea that the day after I vetoed that anti-trans bill, I was opening a factory because the next day we've

always got to be opening a factory. But that's that 80-100 rule that people know that I'm focused. And I think about that ad at the end of the last presidential election. And I'm not sure it moved people because they were anti-trans. If they were, they were probably already with Donald Trump. I think it made Democrats look distracted, not focused on your everyday life and instead focused on health care for prisoners. The second thing I try to do, when I talk about what I'm doing and why, is talk like a normal human being. We've got to push out some of this advocacy speak that makes it sound like we're talking at people instead of to them or down to them. Where I'm from, where we're worried about overdoses, we talk about addiction, not substance use disorder. when there are cuts to snap, we talk about hunger and not food insecurity. So making sure that we are

actually talking to the American people like we would talk to family or friends. But the third piece is, I think, the most important. And that's that Democrats are really good at the what. We get down on the weeds on policy. But we rarely talk about the why. Why do we do what we do? Why do we make the decisions we do? And for me, that's my faith. I believe in the golden rule that says we love our neighbors ourselves and the parable of Good Samaritan. that says everyone is our neighbor. And I believe that everyone's a child of God. And that's exactly what I said after vetoing that bill. I said, if all children are children of God, I don't want our general assembly picking on them. If they're going to show them judgment, I'm going to show them acceptance.

If they're going to show them hate, I'm going to show them love. That's me trying to live my faith. And I'll never forget the next day at that factory opening, a guy makes a beeline towards me, and I think I'm about to get an earful. But he says, Governor, I'm not sure I agree with what you did. But I know you're doing what you think is right. He patted me on the back and walked away. So I think that having the respect to voters to explain not just our what but our why, whether they always vote for us or never vote for us, is so important. I just want to highlight that under your leadership, Kentucky has set multiple records for economic development projects and capital investment. Twenty-25 was the state's second

best year on record for announced private sector investment at about $11 billion. And the state ranked eighth nationally for future economic growth potential in 2025, according to a business index. So we have $7 trillion in expenditures of federal government, $5 trillion in receipts. We can either raise taxes, cut spending. I think the answer probably would say the answer is yes. So as a president, Bashir, do you believe we need to take real action against that type of spending that I would argue is reckless spending. And if so, be as specific as you can around how we raise revenues and where you would want to cut expenditures. So as a governor of a state, you have to balance your budget. Yeah. You have to. It is the law and you cannot print money. And so I've had

a number of good budgets because we're growing so fast. In fact, Moody's, what several months ago, put out a study saying if every state was its own country, where would they? And this is with the federal headwinds that are hitting all of us. About half of the states would be in recession. A third would be flat. We're still growing. And that's really exciting in Kentucky. Sight Selection Magazine's had us top five in economic development per capita. All six years I've been governor. We've had our first, third, fourth, and fifth best years for wages. We just broke our export record in spite of Donald Trump's tariffs, not because of them. And so, we've had our first, third, fourth, and fifth best years for wages. We just broke our export record. We just broke our export record, in spite of Donald Trump's tariffs, not because of them. And so we've I have had to firsthand in years that we have had growth, been able to look at what other programs we might want, but we've also lowered taxes in different areas when we can afford what we need, what government needs to provide, but at the same time provide a little relief. So I'm very pragmatic about it. What I would want to see first on the federal level is what is the growth rate, right? Because if we grow our economy, obviously that raises revenue, but

controlling spending is absolutely critical, especially where we are right now. And so that means that if you're going to put a new program in place, you probably need to look at an old program and whether it is necessary anymore. I've always felt that you've got to look at pruning in all of your cabinets, because over time, they creep out. Would USA have been fully cut? If some of the programs they had reviewed over time and said, well, maybe this isn't the best expenditure. So I believe that there is both that could start, but also holding the line on spending while growing the economy could significantly reduce the deficit and hopefully start impacting the national debt. You know, there was another Southern governor that was able

to do some of that. So just can you be more specific around where you think there's opportunities to control expenditures, would you cut entitlements? Oh, I think we've, I think that there has to be a safety net. I believe people have to have enough to eat. I believe that health care is a basic human right, but there are different ways to reduce the expenditures inside of that. Pharmaceuticals is one. When you look at the growth in health care costs,

so much of it is being driven by that. The U.S. government through Medicaid and Medicare is one of, if not the single largest purchaser of pharmaceuticals in the world. Yet, we allow those prices to go up, right? They can't afford not to be on our formulary. So I think that there is a way to decrease government spending, or at the very least to decrease the rapid increase in health care costs, simply by negotiating the way that any other buyer in the private sector would, given that position you're in and how much market share their cent. We also cannot subsidize the rest of the world and the cost of pharmaceuticals.

You know, at one can't cost eight times, nine times here what it does in Europe. I understand that the United States is and should be a leader of the free world, and we should ensure that certain health care reach different parts of the world, but not at a dramatic increase cost for our people. Jess, last question. Last question. Are you running for president? I am solely focused right now on being the best governor of Kentucky I can be and the best chair of the Democratic Governor's Association. I can be. 26 is really important. It just is. I mean, if we don't flip the House, if we don't make a run at the Senate, then Congress doesn't do its job. But then if you want to look at 28. I do. What I'm focused on right now is wanting to have a map that's not five states with zero margin of error. And if we want to change that map, yes, I want to win the House seat in Des Moines, but I really want to win the governor's race in Iowa. And it opens up better possibilities. It puts Democrats in a better spot. And my concern is that the Republicans are going to put someone up who is as scary, perhaps more scary and damaging than President Trump himself. So this is a must win.

So my work this year is hopefully to put anyone in the best spot to win. I will say it should be a Democratic governor. I love that. Quick additional, even though you went 26 before 28, would you rather run against your alleged fellow son of Appalachia or whatever J.D. Vance, are Hillbilly-Ellogy, vice president or Marco Rubio. Hey, no one would work harder against J.D. Vance than me.

a guy who made his money talking down about people in Kentucky that he doesn't fully understand. He called us lazy. He said addiction was our fault. He is wrong. And he should not be judging us or anyone else. He is the most conceited elected official that I've ever heard speak. And that's incredibly dangerous because if you think you know it all, you're going to make some really bad decisions because you're not listening to some smart people you should put around you. Okay.

Andrew Graham Bashir is an American politician and attorney serving since 2019 is a 63rd governor of Kentucky. He is the son of former Kentucky governor, Steve Beshear, who served from 2007 to 2015. Governor, very much appreciate your time and good work. Thanks for having me on. Jess, what do you think? I think that he has made huge progress in interview style since the 2024 election. remember when he was being vetted by Kamala. And he did a few interviews and he came off as very stiff.

And he has the results to back up everything. But a lot of it is about how you communicate and how you connect. And I thought he felt really relaxed to me. I mean, he obviously has the markers he wants to hit and he wants to talk about what policies have worked and why Kentuckians like him and his faith and family, et cetera. But I felt more of a vibe and I liked it. What did you think? Yeah, he's, I mean, he's kind of out of central casting on paper. An attorney general, popular Democrat in a red state.

Dynastic family in the state. You know, he's good looking. He faces many of the, his state faces many of the biggest issues that, you know, Middle America is struggling with. And he's got a lot to run on and be proud of. You know, it's not an economic miracle, but he's, his exports are uh his jobs are uh he's doing well he's got a lot he can point to um i think he would be really well served kind of going behind enemy lines and getting out and talking to people because

i think he struggles or will struggle with the thing i think he has going for him in addition to his qualifications and achievements is that people don't really know him well people know him well enough the problem is we're all waiting for a jesus like character to descend and lead us to the promised land. And what we find out is they're all imperfect. And people know him well enough to know that he's running for president. And he has a lot of positive qualities. But they don't know him well enough yet to, quite frankly, shitpost him. Yeah. And so when people are struggling for their candidate, like, I like Newsom, but maybe not or superior, I hear a lot of people go, Governor Bashir. And then if you ask them, what specifically do you like about the governor? They really

don't know that much about him. And quite frankly, that's one of his biggest attributes right now. So he's clearly running. And my guess is he's got a book coming out in the next year. He does in September about faith. That's what we should ask. I was going to ask, if we had more time, I wanted to ask him about it. But, you know, Talariko and Bashir are vibing on the religious front. And religion was a big current in Josh Shapiro's memoir as well.

It felt like he was cosplaying Tala Rico a little bit. I don't know who was first to embrace. Or is Tala Rico cosplaying Bashir. Well, that's a fair question. But the whole integration. Or they're just both religious guys who are good. communicators. Or that they're, or that they're being earnest and genuine. Yeah, that's, that's, that's, we haven't met a lot of those, so it can't be that. It'll just be very interesting to

see what happens. I think he would really benefit from, and it'll be interesting to see. Well, do you tell me, does he go on Fox often? Not often, but he goes on. And, you know, it's hard to go at him. It's not only his demeanor and his delivery style, but it's also the results. And most people are smart enough to know if the guy has a 65% approval rating and he has Ruby Red Republicans who wear MAGA shirts cozying up to him at, you know, the local fair or wherever they're seeing them, that he's got something special going for him. How that translates to our completely insane media environment that's going to be surrounding the 2028 presidential, that's an open question at this point. But it's clear, you know, Newsome, and he was forced into it a little bit with the gerrymandering fight in Prop 50 and ended up being a big win. But he's had to expose himself completely. And it's also his personality.

But Cher, to your point, he's, you know, he's still Clark Kent. So we don't know yet what lies beneath the suit. Is that the right way to talk about it? I don't want to be inappropriate. I would say, who's the Batman? I think either being the better analogy is he's Bruce Wayne. But actually, you know, it might be more interesting or illuminating or better battle tests. is if he was in a moderated discussion with Senator Warner or Sanders.

Okay. To see how he responds to, you know. Should we host it? It would be interesting. I'd love to. I would be interesting to see if his team would agree to that. They're being more adventurous. They came to rage.

We'll see. There's a. All right, Jess. Thanks. See ya.