Rahimi, Harris & Grote Show - Best of the Bears: Drew Dalman stunningly retires

Episode Date: March 7, 2026

In the Best of the Bears this week, Score football analyst Olin Kreutz joined the Spiegel & Holmes Show to react to center Drew Dalman's stunning retirement from the NFL at 27 years old; Mike Mulligan and David Haugh debated what the Bears' biggest need is after Dalman's unexpected retirement; and Hall of Fame offensive tackle Joe Thomas joined the Rahimi, Harris & Grote Show to discuss Dalman's retirement and to explain how the lucrative salaries for the top players in the NFL these days could lead to more players retiring early.

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You're okay? Olin Crutes. I always live by this, who much is given, much is expected. College football Hall of Fame. And one of the great ones, Olin Crutes, out of St. Louis High here in Honolulu. He's as good as they come down there. Six-time Pro Bowl. Four-time NFL All-Pro.

The leader of the whole deal, Olin Kruits, he's the heartbeat, he's the soul. He's out there leading the line, along with Brian Erlacher, the team captain's. Football analyst for 104-3, the score. I remember Greg Blotch told me one time I was on kickoff return. I played wed to the starting center. This is back in the old NFL,

the lineback lined up 60 yards away, took off down the field, and I got hit. I couldn't even snap the ball in the next guy. I remember, but I was in. I can't feel my arm. I might snap the ball, but he's staying the game. But Greg Blotch told me on the, and warm-ups the next day.

Olin, you got hurt by a guy with one step from Kmart. Like, that pissed me off, man. Those kind of guys challenge you all the time to get better. Olin Cruz with Spiegel and Holmes on 1043, The Score. Everyone has been wanting to hear

Olin's opinion about what the bears should do now because Drew Dolman walked away and I hope that he's fine and I hope that all of this was just, he was done. with football and he wants to take care of himself. I've got no issue with that, but it does leave the Bears looking

for a center, and they've got a lot of choices, a lot of options that they can go through. Olin Crutes now joins us here on the score. Olin, what, give me your reaction when you heard that Drew Dalman retired. First of all, what's up, guys, and did anything we'd be talking about centers this

time of the year right now? Wasn't really looking at any centers in the draft and wasn't really looking at any free agents. and just was kind of enjoying my all season with the Bears' offensive line and wondering what they were going to do at the left tackle spot. Then all of a sudden, about 1.45 yesterday, my phone started blowing up about some questions about Drew Dalman. I'm thinking, why does everybody want to talk about Drew Dalman,

Pro Bowl Center for the Chicago Bears? And obviously found out that he retired in my first out like everybody else was, I hope he's okay. And I hope the game at the end of it all was just that it was his time. And when it's your time, it's your time, man. man, when you can't put the pads on anymore, when you can't go hit guys anymore, when it's all set and done for you,

it's over. And if that's what it was, I wish him the best in life, and I wish him the best going forward. And obviously this guy is, I think he carried a 3.6 GPA at Stafford and mechanical engineering was his degree. And he probably has a lot of options out there.

And his dad also played football. And I think he had to retire because of a neck injury. So I'm sure they've had a lot of conversations in the Dahlman Halls about football. And make sure you can give it your all if you're going to walk on that football field. But a pro bowl type center, Speeds and Lawrence and a guy who plays at the level that Drew Dolman plays that. And the guy who diagnosed the field like he did. And he, you know, obviously processed information at the center position and handled a lot of the protections and who was coming and who wasn't and who the line was going to work to.

And you guys remember that after the Raiders game, they were on running the ball very well. But then they started jelling after their biweek. And, you know, Coach Ben Johnson said they would fix it and Drew Dahlman was a big part of that, man. And the fact that he could reach guys in his outside zone run scheme in which I've talked about many times on these very airways that he was a specialist at. Very good football player. I really enjoyed watching him play. I enjoyed watching his film last year. And you wish him the best.

But like you guys talk about, the bears have a pretty big question mark now in the middle of their offensive line, the area that we thought the middle of the. line we thought was fixed and to be honest guys i thought we've heard anything the year it would be that joe toy decided that he was going to hang it up right that he's older now and well in his 30s and he played a lot of football games and he was the protector of the year so really surprised to hear about drew domen uh retired but obviously like everybody else i wish him the best as he goes forward with whatever he's going to do now uh olin when the news broke my wife came up to me the former center for the mighty Sequoia's intramural flag football team and she said to me, Speggs, it's your time. It's your time.

It is. I can see that. I thought about it. I got a lot of pushback, Olin, yesterday. I got a lot of pushback. People have seen, you know, the technique video of you breaking down my technique so viciously. You were not kind that day. It hurt you. He was honest, though. You're overcoming something that day. That's what they don't know. They don't know what you are fighting through, Speegs. They have no idea. All right. Well, let me take it to the obvious place has your wife come up to you and said olin it's your time and game on for you to come

back and play well um i i i probably the better for the bears if they would take a look at another cruz in my house a younger guy who's the center this year and he's coming out from illinois but my time is definitely done i would not do i don't want anyone hit me anymore i do not even look at my pads with any thoughts that i could still do it right what if we see i got i got one more good one me all the old guys lied to ourselves that we do right that we can play a young man's football game this is a young guy's football game in no way Chicago Bears man I mean where are they going to look draft you know obviously every mentioned everybody mentions Tyler Linderbaum a Saturday you know I've watched for years out of Iowa really good football player man you can get

that guy obviously you go get him but a lot of people are going to want a guy like that at their pivot position who can make those blocks you know that Tyler Viedich was at halis hall and and they're taking a look at him and people talk about Connor McGovern And all these things, man, are coming to play now that you're looking at a position speech and Lawrence that you thought you wouldn't have to look at this year. There's really a lot of work, I know. Hours and hours of work right now for the coaching staff

or the general manager, or everyone there at Hallis Hall to find now a guy who fits again, right? Because, like, you guys know, it's not just blocking people on film, right? It's the culture. It's fitting in with Jonah Jackson. It's fitting in with Joe Tooney. It's fitting in with Caleb Williams, right?

to fit it in with making the calls, what everyone, all these pieces, all this puzzle has to work together. It's not just someone blocking guys. Well, I think this guy can make that block. That's not what it is, guys. We saw last year, the Chicago Bears had what you would call momentum,

and they had culture, their winning post football games. They had seven wins, right? Seven wins, whereas one score left. You cut that in half. They might be 8 and 8, 89 and out of the playoffs. So those kind of things are extremely important.

Now there's so much more work to be done. there up at halisaw a little more on Ryan polls, Ben Johnson, and coach Dan Rochard, who did a great job last year, their offensive line coach on their plate. A, Josh Krutz is the, I believe the 11th, the number 11 center nationally, if I have that correct. So congrats on that. And I hope he's got an NFL life ahead of him. But like, should the Bears even consider drafting a center in a year this important with all

of those pieces on the line, or is it a better fit to go get a veteran of some kind and plug in with the aspirations being what they are? They know what their fit is, right? They know what the kind of center that they want is the Drew Dalman type, right, an outside zone guy who can reach guys. By that, I mean, cut off a defense, you know, really get his helmet across, give the running back room, a guy who can process information. We just told you, he's, you know, 3.61 GPA at Stanford, Canjo Engineering came from a football fan. I think he mentioned coming to the Chicago Bears that that has really helped him diagnose what offenses, what the office wants to do. And they diagnose the defense.

Everybody lined up. Everybody moving in the right direction to me critical for the Chicago Bears offense to find a center like that, whether it's someone in the draft, whether it's someone in free agency. Because the guys who can handle that guys, the guys who can handle that mental processing, the guys who can handle the playbook, the guys who can recognize safety. rolling down, rolling up, linebackers bumping over who we're working to, what calls need to be made. Do we need to slide the line one way or another? Those guys do that all the time. Whether they're in college, whether in the pros, obviously there's a little bit of learning when you get from college to the NFL, but the guys who are good at it, the guys I like to say, they live in the matrix, right? They see things that you don't see. They know things that you don't know, and then they process those things within 20 seconds before the ball is snap. Those kind of guys,

guys, those kind of guys, they do those things. No matter what level they're playing at, you got to go out and find that guy for the Chicago Bears, put that guy in the middle of their offensive line. Get that position solidified, I think, an important position for their offense, for the guys, and what they want to do there on offense. And Ben Johnson, obviously, we all know what kind of what we think about him, what kind of coach he is, and we all know that he knows that and what kind of guy he's looking for. I'm sure they identified a few already. When I look at Tyler Linderbaum,

smart, tough, really good in past protection. I don't know how to judge the movement. When I see him get out on screens, when I see him get out on zone stuff, I go, hey, that guy is really moving. What do you see with him when you watch

him on film? Yeah, Tyler Linderbom, probably the best in the business right now is what you see when you watch him on film. He can do all the reach blocking and all the stuff we're talking about that Drew Dolman did, but also Tyler Lindelbaum is also very good. And the power scheme, he's good on his backblocks. He's good on getting movement on dual.

You hear a lot of people talking about dual nowadays. It's just, you know, a middle run game, running right down the middle of the field, which I thought Drew Dalman really improved on this year with Jonah Jackson and Joe Tuny there in the middle of the off sign with Darnell Wright, who had a great year. And with the three or four left tackle they had out there, they ran the ball very well, Lawrence.

But all the things I just mentioned, about what a center needs to do for an offense. And then you can throw in making all the blocks that need to be made. Now we're talking about Tyler Lindelbaum. Now we're talking about someone who's probably playing at the highest level right now in the NFL. And obviously, you know, he played with Lamar Jackson. He plays with Ron Stanley. He plays down there in Baltimore.

He loves to run the football and their quarterback gives them a great advantage. But he's been doing that since Iowa. I will learn for Kirk Forens there in Iowa. It's an O-line factory. those guys are always producing centers, always producing guys who can block. Obviously, we all have to, you know, watch. I don't know what the guy's doing with his hair do down there this year.

At the Combine, everybody wants to talk about that nonsense, too. But they always have offensive alignment coming out that do a good job. But Lawrence, when you watch him, you see a guy that, yeah, the Chicago Bears could get him. Oh, man, well, let's forget about that spot. But I'm going to tell you right now, it ain't going to be cheap to get Tyler Lindembaum over here in the Chicago Bears jersey. If I'm the Baltimore Ravens, I don't let him step one foot.

Out of my door. I don't let the 25-year-old best center in NFL leave my building. Yeah, you know, it's not going to be cheap. And like the cap hit for Dolman was going to be 14 based on this. And there'll be some dead cap because they'll move the bonus up. But like, so signing a guy with a 14 cap hit or thereabouts, totally doable, right? But a 20, which might be what Linderbaum is, then it might get a little hinky. So that makes us want to look a little further down the free agent list.

Olin, it's only been 24 hours. I don't know if you have had a chance to look at Tyler Biotish, the former commander's center. And if you can tell us anything about him, please do because the bears are talking to him, and we don't know a lot about him yet we're trying to learn. Yeah, I've watched Tyler over the years play center, and he's a good center, right? And I don't know why I would have to watch his film this year to see why the commander's moved on from him. but obviously they also have Nick Allegrety there who's also a very good football player

at the University of Illinois, right? So when you have a guy like that, you can let a guy like Tyler move on. Because you have a guy who can, you can captain your office line, you can put in the middle of your office line, he can make all the blocks, he can make all the calls,

and he can be the kind of leader you need on your football team, which we all know about Nick Allegretti. But when we talk about Bidi, you know, they just speak, they're going to have to take a look at that film and see if she matches what they want. But remember, we had the first

I always tell you guys remember who's announced on the first day of the pro bowl that's the pro bowlers and everybody else is the off of you right we had the guy announced on the first day of the pro bowl right we had a guy play football on an extremely high level and doing a very good job for the Chicago Bears and if I told you guys

that this was going to be easy to replace the guy that position and look out there for free agency and find somebody who come in and play at that level it's not going to be easy and that's why Ryan polls went out last year and made Drew Dolman a priority of free agency. I went out there and got him and said I'm going to get myself this center here putting the middle of office

lines going to fix a lot of my problems and it sure did. It sure did fix a lot of their problems there that they were having the middle of their offensive line. So after Tyler Lindelbaum guys, I don't want to talk bad about any free agents coming out. I want to talk bad about any older guys, but I will tell you this, it's going to be a step down. After Tyler

Lindelbaum is going to be a step down for what the Chicago Bears do want to do. They're in And I know there's been some talk about Connor McGovern from Buffalo. And I just think that the way that Drew Dolman could cut off a defense and his run block and his skill at the Reese Block. And I think even with Tyler Lindelbaum, guys, I don't know if Lindelbaum was better than Drew Dolman at the reach block. I don't think he was. I think they were pretty even there. And Drew Dalman might have been even a little better than him.

So this is not going to be easy to find a guy to get in there, especially because he understood already what Ben Johnson wanted. this with Jonah Jackson wanted, what Joe Tune wanted, and they can get in there and get a guy who obviously can play and can do a nice job. But if I told you that I didn't think that there was going to be a little bit of a step back here without Drew Dalman, I've been lining guys. What's the responsibility of Caleb now and how can he help whoever the new center is adjust to what it is that they're doing? Responsibility, obviously, you know, I'm going to be the master of the obviously.

starting quarterback, but we all know what the quarterback in the center do, and they arrange everything, right? And they arrange where the blocking scheme is going, where the pass protection should go, you know, like the checks in and out of plays. Well, plays didn't want to run. A lot of times Ben Johnson likes to package plays,

but that I mean maybe a run in a pass or a run and a pass in a past and put the offense in the best situation versus the defense that they see. And then the check is usually made between the quarterback and the center. And if Caleb can handle a lot of that, sometimes it doesn't matter who the center is, right? Sometimes I remember I went to New Orleans and they said, oh, and here you don't have to make a lot of calls.

Obviously, Drew Brees, right? He was making all the calls. All you had to do is snap on the ball. He was going to get you in the right play. He was going to call the blocking scheme. He was going to call the protection. He was going to let you know where the office line was working. He was going to make all the adjustments, all the blocking adjustments, all the run game adjustments.

Drew Brees was going to do everything for the offense. And the senator just really had to snap from the ball when he was ready for it. And then make his block. It made your job pretty darn easy there. So if he can do all of those things for the senator, then you just get a guy who you put plug in the middle of that office the line. He just blocks people, right? So we just got to see where Caleb is, with his development,

and see where they can go with that. I know they want to take a good look at Luke Newman there at Center last year and see what he could do. I know they were talking about doing camp, that maybe thought he had some problems. with snaps and he had things he had to work on. But definitely has the physical tools, but all the things we're talking about, guys,

is what makes snapping the ball hard in the NFL. You're doing a lot of talking up there. You're doing a lot of processing information. You're doing a lot of organizing and things. All the while, meanwhile, guys, the quarterback's calling the snap count behind you while you're making calls. You've got to hear the snap count, get the ball to him.

When he wants it, make the adjustments, see the blitzes, get things moving in the right direction. Those are a lot of things that in the Chicago Bears. We'll be missing this year, and we're going to have to find somebody who can do that like Drew Dalman did it last year. Man, life comes at you fast in this league. This league of yours, Olin, like, it is ruthless, man. Like, Caleb just had that year where he learned all of that, and now he's got to be ready

to go next level if need be. And, God, I hope he's ready to do that. Is it the most important priority of everything in the Bears' off season now? Like when you think about safeties, you think about linebackers, left tackle, defensive tackle, you know, like there's a lot there. But has this become priority number one when you think about this team overall? Yeah, I mean, I think the offensive line has become a priority number one, obviously with Drew Dalman retiring already having a left tackle position.

But they do have Joe Tooney up there and Jonah Jackson and Darnell right, three really good football players. I think that the great thing about the Chicago Bears right now, as you guys know, obviously with Drew Dorman just retiring. Oh, man, what just happened to Chicago Bears? You're feeling so good about, you know, everyone already had Max Crosby on the Chicago Bears. Everybody already already already trading DJ more. We've got all kinds of things going on in this offseason I've been watching lately. But it's just when you see this stuff, right, when you see all these things that people are talking about,

what is the priority for Chicago Bears? The one good thing you feel comfortable about again is that Ben Johnson is back, right? And the offensive scheme hasn't gone anywhere. And Dennis Allen is back. And the defensive scheme hasn't gone anywhere. So it'll be interesting to watch where they go this off season. What they think is the most important. Would it be the pass rush?

Will it be, you know, getting a center or a left taffle? But I think they do have to find another guy there who is playing at a pro bowl-type level. A lot of times you say, okay, what should we get a center or a taffle? I always say we'll get someone who's playing at a Pro Bowl level. I want to go back to week two of 2011. The Saints beat the Bears, 30 to 13. I walked across over into the Saints locker room to talk to my buddy, Olin Croutts, and congratulate him on the win.

A few weeks later, you were done with football. Can you walk me through what goes through a player's mind? Give me the player's perspective on when it's done, it's done. It's a really interesting question. And it's something I thought about, obviously, what you guys called and to talk about Drew Dolman retiring. And when I retired now, obviously, Drew Dolman, you know, he had 57 starts. He had 187 starts.

You know, he was in his fifth year. I was in my 14th year. A little different, right? I was 34. He's 27. But when you're done with the game, the game takes so much to play this game of football. It takes so much. Obviously, everybody knows.

the violence, I don't, I love it. I do it again in a second. I do it a 14 years all over again. But when your time is up, the easiest way to say, Lawrence, is that like you just said, when you're done, when you don't feel like you can do it anymore,

when you don't feel like you can wake up and do the workouts and eat the food and get yourself ready to go play again. And, like, you know, you're just feeling like, man, I don't know, maybe an injury I have is just not healing. I don't feel like your walk. It's just going to last for me for the rest of my life, right, and all these kind of thoughts that go through your head

and you hear about, obviously, stories about people who go through things after they play football, and really you've got to make those decisions for yourself. You've got to decide when your time is up, when you don't want to do the game anymore, you want to do the little things it takes to be good in the game of football, and you don't want to run yourself into large human beings anymore, 330-pound guys. When you play center, you're usually playing against the biggest guy on the other football team, the nose guard is usually the guy who's, you know, topping 330 to 340. But it's a great question.

It's not one that's extraordinarily easy to answer. It's just that when you are done, you are done playing the game of football. And for Drew, it was a little earlier than most of it would expect. And he was at the top of his game. And he said, man, I don't want to do this anymore. And credit to him for knowing when his time is up, when it's time to move on. And obviously, like you guys know, the money is better now, right? the money is better for these younger football players.

But, you know, at the end, when you're in the offseason and you're talking to your family, you're talking to everybody around you, and, you know, I'm here to tell you, and this isn't, this isn't, this is just the way it is. But, you know, nobody calls you when your health insurance stops when they stop paying it. No one calls you, no one calls you check how you're doing and the team that, you know, calls you family and anything they want to do for you and to help you out any way they can, that's not true, right? So obviously Drew Dalman has a different view.

and everybody else because his dad played, right? And his dad gives him advice and his dad played for the San Francisco 49ers, and he knows what it's all about. After you retire and you've got to find your own way and you got to take care of yourself. And look, that's a part of it for everybody, right? Everybody in life goes through that.

That's not special to a football player, but he does have a different perspective from a different point of view and he probably went through all those things in his mind and said, look, my time is up. I gave this game everything I could give it. He probably has upward of 25, plus starts in college also and how many starts did he have in high school and he's probably

already at the point of where he's played I don't know eight you know what is that eight plus five he's probably 13 to 14 years of football total he's played a lot of football accomplished a lot of things and he felt like his time was done and when you feel like dad lawrence that is your time to walk away olin we appreciate your time good luck with your offseason good luck with josh's offseason and draft pro i'm trying to beat his 225 bench right now I'm going to try to beat his his 225 bench. Now listen, I'm only like 20 aware, but I'm going to chase it. Let me tell you guys this one story. I got a kid in my gym. I asked him. I said, 225. I'm going to think I can do it. He said six. I almost killed it. Six.

What I look like? Like I'm, you know what I thought, Lawrence? I went home and looked in the mirror. I said, do I look that bad? Do I look like I can only get six rats? Like, holy me. I was, hey, I was posing in the mirror. Like, no way. There's, I can. I can. at least at 15, right? Like, and when he said it, he was serious. But I challenge him, man. I try to vertical out. It's not very nice. When I'm

landing, I don't know what's about to happen, but you got to always challenge the young guys, but they're preparing for these Combine Pro days. You always think you got one more in you, but I'm here to tell you. I've been doing all these drills and stuff. I don't. All right, but I'm going to put my money on the fact that you're going to get that

225 where you want it, though, because More than six. I know that. Yes. Gosh. I took my shirt off in America. Did I look this bad? Guys with no muscles can get six. Now, we're having a lot of fun, man, preparing for this.

Going through this with Josh, we're having a blast getting ready for these pro days. And, you know, he's going to get ready, give it a shot. And I wouldn't bet against him. Oh, you're the man. We appreciate you, man. Have a good rest of your day. and give back to work on the bench, sir. Oh, man, I get back to work.

They say, at least I can look like I get 10. I'm not even worried about getting the six. I can get the six. They should have given you double digits, like just out of respect. At least, out of respect. You know what I mean? Like, you're in the gym every day. It's not like you stopped.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Do I look? I asked them straight up. I said, do I look that bad? He could even answer. Yep, take them. You need to talk to those guys. You need to make a point.

you bring him over here, I'll put him in the feelings corner. Let him know what's what. That's right. That's where we got to get, man. We got to get back to the feelings corner. You see, we went away from that. We got to go. Oh, there we go.

There it is, man. Get back in touch with it, oh. That's the music I mean when I'm benching. Guarantee 15. Easy peasy 15. You're out there doing the Stephen Paya when you start hearing this. Oh, man. Did you see him 49?

What the hell? What hell is that? Yeah, that's crazy. That is crazy, man. Crazy stuff. Olin, have a good rest of you. Guys, have a great day, man. It's our guy, Olin Crutes.

Oh, man. He was in his feelings, actually. He got challenged, and he did not like it. He did not appreciate it. I would imagine that that made Olin furious. And I would have thrown myself into that conversation, but Lord knows there have been way too many radio hosts that have been trying to do bench press lately.

So, it's probably stay out of that. How many times you do 95 pounds? Once at least? I'm as offended by the 95 pounds as Olin is by 225. I'm as offended by that. That I could do fairly easily. Once we got around like 180 is where I would get uncomfortable. I know this may shock some of you,

but I don't believe that I have attempted any sort of bench press with any weight in probably 30 years. Nor should you. It's a terrible exercise. Honestly, like, it's not good for you. And most people do it wrong and it messes up their shoulders. You should probably do incline if you need to do any bench at all. Sure. Okay. I mean, I do some curls. You know, I do a few curls every once in a while. But frankly, it's been a year or two for those two. Yep, no doubt. All right.

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Bears free agency, cubs and socks on the horizon, the bulls, and more. We bring the energy, the conversation, and the point of view you'd hear if you were back home at Wrigley Field or the United Center. Catch Spiegel and Homes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you or a family member been diagnosed with early-stage non-small cell lung cancer that can be removed by surgery? Consider talking to an oncologist about your treatment options. Why? Because knowing your options before you have surgery can help your cancer.

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Set up this extra point. It's time for the extra point with Mullin Haugh on 1043, the score. What is the Bears number one offseason priority in the wake of Drew Dalman retiring? Is it center? Is it left tackle? What about defensive linemen? how much faith do you have in Ryan Poles and the other draft guys? Well, I don't think you're going to look at the draft necessarily to fill these needs primarily. But I do think that when you have four glaring position problems, it's inevitable you're going to have to go to the draft to maybe answer at least two of those questions.

The other two can come in free agency. Right now, as we sit here this morning, because of the immediacy, of the center loss and maybe it's just a reaction but it feels like the center is the most pressing need on this roster, the most glaring

hole because it affects so many other different things. Maybe the growth of Caleb Williams you could argue maybe the effectiveness of the guards who are very good around you. Maybe you're running game in a Ben Johnson offense. So I think I want to say

center. And what you get a good center, I'd be willing to overpay for a center, but I think that's probably number one, edge rusher number two, defensive tackle number three, left tackle number four. And you could go in any order and you could make a valid argument. Here's what I'm worried about how this will adjust the offseason priority list too, though. What does this mean in terms of being more aggressive in the DJ Moore trade market? What does this do to your Max Crosby pursuit? And does this mean you're less likely to trade a draft pick because you may need it to,

for these other positions I mentioned, and you'll keep those draft picks and spend, it's only money, on Trey Hendrickson, who is a free agent. You can't get Trey Hendrickson and Tyler Lindelbaum. I doubt it. But it would be in fantasy football you could. But to recap, priorities, center, edge rusher, defensive tackle, left tackle. Priority is center. I think you've got to shore that up.

Something the Bears did really well last year was also ran the ball. They ran the ball a lot better than I think a lot of us thought they would or could. And I think a lot of that had to do with Drew Dalman and the two guys on each side of him. So I think that's where you've got to put the focus right now.

It might be, I'm not saying it's not in the building. Maybe it is, but the Bears have to address that. And then to follow David's path, it would be awesome if somehow they could retool the defensive line in a similar way to what they did last year with the offensive line. But they tried to do it last year with the defensive line. I mean, they made a couple of big signings.

They spent a lot of money on O'Dangbo and on Grady Jarrett, and they just didn't get any payoff for it. I mean, that's the reality of it. I think that if they want to remain as good, a team as they are. This can be an awful thing to say, but I think when you watch Caleb Williams and his ability to spin out and take off and to do things on the run, that's easier done with pressure coming from over left tackle than it is when a guy is coming right up the middle of the field. And I worry about that for that reason. And I think that I don't want him on the run

and trying to get away and under pressure and all that. But I think that, you know, as he improves as a player and maybe converts a lot more of these open throws that become higher percentage throws as he gets more used to what he's doing, and I honestly believe that will happen. I think that the bear's offense is going to get better, but if you got holes on the offensive line, it's not going to.

And I think that there is a scenario where they could buy time with the left tackle position if they brought back Braxton Jones and figured out a way to use him and Theo Benedict together as a force somehow and improving somehow until you get the starter back, which Dustin scares me at the idea,

well, everything will be good in December because what if he has a setback or what if he's not in condition or how long does it take him to come back from that injury? I think these are all question marks, but they don't have anyone, in my opinion, that is an obvious takeover that spot. And with apologies to Luke Newman, I don't think I've seen him do it enough,

and I don't think that's the case. I think they need a starter to go in there, and if they could get somebody who would be a Pro Bowl-type player, I think we've seen the Bears with a Pro Bowl Center, and that was a good offensive line dating back to Olin Kruitz and how he had solidified that position. And then we saw that team for a number of years without a Pro Bowl Center. And guess what?

Not nearly the same thing. I think they really need that position in order to solidify the inside of that line and help the quarterback. Two quick follow-ups. I think, number one, skilled play callers can scheme around and call a game if you have a weaker left tackle, there are things you can do. You don't really hear that often saying the same thing about a weak center.

It's so true. You need the strength in the middle, I think a little bit more than you do for the blindside, if you will. And I think you have so many other things that are tied to having that epicenter, literally, of your offensive line. The other thing is that I think if this question really comes down to this, heading into free agency, who would you be more willing to overpay for?

Tyler Linderbaum, the center, or Trey Hendrickson, the rush end? Yeah. Because if you are having a choice, you're not going to be able to afford both. I think it's a 25-year-old. So you would be more likely to want to pursue? I think Tyler Linderbombeam is going to be a pro-bowl talent at center for the next five years. That's a very interesting answer. I don't necessarily disagree either.

because that would answer a lot of questions, but it certainly does shift our focus, and it is not what you expected from the Bears and Free Agency. Never anything I thought I would say, that that's where they need to spend their money. I think that's an interesting question for people to consider, too. I mean, what would people prefer? Both are going to be unrestricted free agents.

Yeah. And you don't know how much space you're going to have under the salary cap yet because these could be an active final few days before we get to Monday, where the unofficial tampering period begins, and all hell will break loose. And they could sign a guy who was in the building yesterday before that even comes to pass. Who knows? And then that shifts your priorities again. Then you have more funds and resources to go after a Trey Hendrickson, if you will.

And then if Max Crosby re-enters the chat, who knows? Hey, why will you cut exactly? How good do you think you're going to be for us? These are questions you need answers to, and it's difficult. to look into a crystal ball and find him. So you're right. I mean, you know, it does, to me, it does change. I don't want to say you don't want Max Crosby,

but I'm wondering what the betting market will look like today because the betting market favored the bears. It sure did yesterday before all this happened. How about that? All right, we've got our guy, Big Z. We'll run this stuff by him. We'll find out who knew what, when, and we'll talk to Brad Biggs Biggs' time next on the score.

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who trust progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Let's go to our score hotline. He also joins us on Twitch. Twitch.tv. TV slash The Score Chicago. The Hall of Famer, the 10-year offensive linemen for the Cleveland Browns, six-time first team, all pro, 10-time Pro Bowl, part of the all-decade team. The accolades go on and on. Joe Thomas, thank you for joining us today. Hey, thanks for having me on, guys. Well, thank you. And I think you're a perfect person to talk to when it came to just this sudden announcement of the retirement of Drew Dalman.

I said this just a couple of minutes ago to my co-host, Mark, Joe, that for all the understanding of football we do, for all the research, I think until you've ever played NFL football as a lineman, we can't fully grasp even with description how hard it is on your body day in and day out. How would you do that for us if you could? It's a beating. I mean, I retired after 11 years. I didn't miss a single play until my 11th season, but that was all she wrote because by the time I'd finished 10 and a half years in the NFL, I was sliding down the stairs on my butt because I couldn't walk after games. My knees hurt so bad.

They were so swollen. I was getting injections every week and getting my knee drained. It's a beating, even if you're not getting the big injuries, which I was able to avoid for 10 and a half years, and I didn't miss any time. You're still accumulating wear and tear and beatings on the body and the mind. And it beats you down.

And really, like, mentally, I was in probably a worse space than I was physically by the end of my career because dealing with all the rehab and the wondering if you're going to be healthy enough to play on the weekend and trying to make up for lost practice time because you're injured, it wears on you because it's a stressful game as it is when you're a young player, not to mention when you get old and you're trying to deal with, can my body keep up with these young bucks?

Oh, and by the way, I'm older and I'm dealing with some injuries. I'm dealing with some inadequacies because my body just isn't the way it used to be. So I totally understand it's hard for people to really wrap their minds around a guy who's so young in his 20s, just signed with the Chicago Bears to retire. But everybody's body ages differently. And it's hard to know what that beating was unless you're actually living in. side of that person. So what is your first reaction then when you hear, you see the news that Drew Dalman, as you just pointed out, 27. I mean, and you mentioned it. You play 10 plus years

in this league. He's younger. Three years, $42 million. First reaction when you read that. I was surprised. I mean, it is very young, especially when you are just signing with a new team like he did last year with the Bears. You would expect that like if a guy's going to retire, you're going to hear some whispers about, you know, he's thinking about it. He's dealing well off-season surgeries and he's struggling to come back. But really, it was all quiet on that front. I think it probably surprised the Bears almost as much as anybody. So it was definitely a shock.

And Joe, I think you were probably the last generation of kids who grew up playing football without the concussion settlement that had happened with the NFL. I think that had come out, probably. probably when you were actually in your NFL career at that point. And I do think there was a wave of parents, you know, who said they were going to do things differently when it came to having their kids play like Pop Warner, for example, or playing high school football a little bit differently. I can understand why that would be top of mind for any NFL player, just the danger of what

this game can do to your brain day in and day out, knowing that earlier in their career and having that understanding for so long. What do you think? Yeah, it's definitely something that guys think about. One of my good friends from Wisconsin, Chris Borland, he played one year, had an amazing season with the San Francisco 49ers as a linebacker, and he decided to walk away because he didn't feel like it was worth risking the health of his brain and possible long-term repercussions of the daily beatings that you take

when you're a lineman, when you're a linebacker, when you're one of those positions that as a requirement of your job, you, are smashing your skull against another human being 60, 70 times during practice, not just on the games. And so it's something that you definitely consider. I think they've done a great job of making the game safer. But when you're thinking about the brain, you only get one of them. Last time I checked, they're not doing brain replacements. And I think that's something that people have to think about. And I think the reason you maybe see it a little bit more now with guys retiring early versus we didn't see it as much a while ago is they're making a lot more money. So a guy,

like Doug or some of these other guys who retired early, in four or five years, they're making what NFL players 10, 15 years ago would have taken 20 years to make. So it's a little bit easier decision when you've already feel like you've got yourself set up for life. And at that point, you're just playing for the love of the game.

I think that cost benefit analysis changes a little bit when you're not doing it because you have to pay those bills like guys that were playing 20, 30 years ago had to consider. And obviously, Joe, everybody cares about the person. We're being careful to some degree, too, because we don't know the why here of Drew Dolman. I'm sure the bears know more than we know. But the other part is, is the reality the bears no longer have a Pro Bowl center who

it sure looked to us like was hugely important to the bears this year. What kind of a loss is Drew Dalman from what you saw watching the Bears? I think it's a huge loss because Drew was the center of that offensive line. And when you've got a young quarterback who's learning a new system like Caleb, who's coming into his own, had a really good year last season, like that is the guy you lean on. He is the translator between quarterback and the rest of the offensive linemen. And so that position is something that the quarterback leans on.

And that's something that the guards and the tackles lean on because Drew is that guy who translates Chinese that maybe coming out of the quarterback's, mouth to English that the offensive linemen are speaking. When that defense moves and they ship from a four down to a three down, they drive safeties down, they rock safeties back, they change where those linebackers are. There's constant communication that has to happen. And it has to happen in a split second. And so for Drew at center, he needs to know what Caleb is thinking. He's in every single meeting with the quarterbacks when they're talking about protections. They have their own meetings a couple times a week so that they can get on the same page because a lot of times your quarterback is

looking at the secondary and he's looking at the coverage and it's the center that's looking at the protection. And so at some point during the play, the quarterback's not looking at that protection anymore and he's trusting the center to be able to make any adjustments or changes to protect him and his well-being and safety. And so that trust is not something that you just sign up for. That's something that's built during training camp. It's built during the battles that you go through on Sundays. And it's not a position that's easy to replace. It's one of those positions. It's one of those If you don't know anything about it, it's usually a good thing. If you start hearing about it, you know there's a problem.

And that is something that only time can fix when you're talking about that quarterback center relationship. Oh, that's so true. We are talking to the Hall of Famer Joe Thomas here on Rahimi Harrison Grotie, the All-Pro, many-time All-Pro, all-decade, Brown's offensive tackle for many years. And he joins us on Twitch, twitch.tv slash the score Chicago, from your shop where I see you have like a million point antler. behind you, by the way. That's some nice work out of you. So that's a treat for everybody watching on Twitch. And I also want to ask you this, Joe, having done this for as long as you have, having

been an analyst of the game the way you are, oh, we get the, oh my goodness, look at the multi-point box over there. Okay. So as we admire the taxidermy of Joe Thomas's shop, yeah, absolutely. So I do want to ask you this, because you are somebody who I think brought a lot of like modern stats to the conversation when it came to how to measure, you know, offensive line efficiency and things like that. If you were a general manager and you were looking for a center, what would be the qualities you would look for first? I think the first quality you got to have in any center is they got to be really smart.

Because as I mentioned before, they need to be the guy that translates and that the quarterback trusts. He is the voice for the offensive line. He's the guy that makes sure everybody's on the same page. And it's something that's not the hardest responsibility of an offensive line, but it might be the most important. And so you've got to find somebody who's very smart, especially running a complex system like the Bears do.

They're going to be changing not only protections before the snap comes, but a lot of run blocking assignments because they're running pinpole. If they're running some of the outside zone concepts, play actions, they have to count for nine guys out there, right? If a safety comes down to the strong side, now they have to count him and to be able to have a blocker for that player. And so those are all things that are really challenging. They have to happen very quickly.

And that's the first thing that I want out of any of my centers. And then the second thing is I need to have a good athlete. A guy that can get out and run. He can reach a nose guard if they're running zones. You can get out and pull if they're run pinpoles and crack G type concepts. He's got to be able to run. You get a lot of help when you're the center, which is the nice thing, because you've got a guard on either side of you.

So in pass protection, you're rarely in a one-on-one matchup. But you need to be able to run. You need to be able to find linebackers and sit. safety's in space and block them, especially in the bear's system, which is always going to rely heavily on a really, really strong ground game. All of that said about the center, Joe, you may or may not know the bears do have an opening at left tackle right now as well. Which position center or left tackle for the bears and Caleb Williams is more important

right now, should be more resources should be used at? I would say you're going to want to use more resources on. tackle because it requires a lot more draft capital or dollars in the salary cap to pay a quality tackle. And if you can't block the edges in past protection, it doesn't matter if you've got all the guys assigned to the right protection, you're not going to be able to be very efficient and very effective protecting for your quarterback. So tackle is still the hardest thing to get, and it's still something you want to spend your most money on. Says the tackle, a likely story.

Joe, thank you so much for joining. Thank you so much for joining. us and you can check out Hall of Fame beef by Joe Thomas. Yeah. And this is a pretty impressive list of what you got here, Joe. 100% full-blood Wagyu, F1 American Wagyu, and premium Angus Beef proudly raised in Wisconsin's Driftless Region by Pro Football Hall of Fame or Joe Thomas. You can visit Hall of Famebeef.com. Joe, I have to admit, I didn't know about the Driffless region of Wisconsin.

You should come visit. It's beautiful. It's not quite like the Rocky. mountains, but it's absolutely gorgeous. The last glacier period didn't come through here. So we got amazing trout streams. We got unbelievable wildlife. We got beautiful bluffs and hills. It's a great place to vacation. That's why I first got here. And then it's also a great place to raise some of the healthiest, highest quality beef on planet Earth. You mentioned the Wagyu. We're selling all those steaks, all those cuts, beef jerky, Hall of Fame beef sticks, summer sausage, hot dogs, cheddar worst,

brats, you name it, anything a beef cow has. We can promote. provide it at Hall of Famebeef.com. Cheddar worst. Fantastic. That sounds good, man. Chatter worst is off the chain. My kids won't even look at a regular hot dog anymore. And I've got something else to do, which is check that out.

Joe, this has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. Hey, thanks for having me on guys. Anytime. Thanks, Joe. That's Joe Thomas, Hall of Famebeef.com for all of that. And I learned a geography lesson today. I've been meaning to ski in Wisconsin.

I was a stupid head and started skiing in Colorado. and Nevada first. Same. To this day, I don't think I could ski because I started, I went from Colorado to Utah, which is another. Utah is tricky. The snow can get icy. We got to go up to this driftless region, Gros. There's no drifts.

No drifts whatsoever. We got to check it out. What does that mean? Driftless region. That's the thing. That's why I want to look this up. Okay. Curiosity is good.

All right. Thanks again to Joe Thomas for joining us. We're going to do more on just, I think listening to what he had to say and kind of absorbing that. So we'll do that together as a team with you next. I'm done carrying around bulky drinks. And I'm definitely done cleaning melted candy out of my pockets. So yeah, I traded them both in for fruity rainbow five-hour energy shots.

These little guys are as pocket-sized as any candy. But instead of a sugar crash, you get a zero-sugar caffeine boost. Candy can't even compare at this point. Fruity rainbow five-hour energy shots treat your taste buds to an explosion of, fruity flavor with a tasty caffeine kick. That's right, caffeine just got a flavor upgrade. And it's not just one flavor. Five-hour energy shots bring you tasty caffeine in 17 flavors.

17. So if you're craving that candy-flavored chaos, but actually want energy that works, grab fruity rainbow five-hour energy shots. Pocket-sized, zero-sugar, big flavor. Available now at five-hour energy.com or on Amazon. Have you or a family member been diagnosed with early stage non-small cell lung cancer that can be removed by surgery? Consider talking to an oncologist about your treatment options.

Why? Because knowing your options before you have surgery can help your care team develop a treatment plan that's right for you. Learn about a potential treatment plan before and after surgery at ask before surgery.com. That's ask before surgery.com and talk to an oncologist before your surgery. Hey, it's Captain Ron, and as a Washington native, it's so important for me to work with companies who love it here just as much as I do. I want someone who calls it I five and not the five, or laughs at me when I say I kind of miss the Tacoma aroma. That's why I use Pinkies Plumbing for every plumbing need I have. They're rooted in Seattle.

They get Seattle. So remember, not all heroes wear capes, but in Seattle, our hometown heroes wear a big old pig on the side of their van. Pinkiesplumbing.com. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. love true crime or comedy, celebrity interviews or news, you call the shots on what's in your podcast queue. And guess what? Now you can call them on your auto insurance too, with the name your price tool from Progressive.

It works just the way it sounds. You tell Progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance, and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget. Get your quote today at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, Price and Coverage Match Limited by state law. Spring is here and the shopping list is long. Time

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