Rahimi, Harris & Grote Show - Best of the Cubs: Pete Crow-Armstrong needs to make a few adjustments

Episode Date: February 28, 2026

In the Best of the Cubs this week, Matt Spiegel and Laurence Holmes discussed how center fielder Pete Crow-Armstrong needs to make a few key adjustments in his approach at the plate; Leila Rahimi, Marshall Harris and Mark Grote discussed how the Cubs will use utilityman Matt Shaw; and writer Wayne Drehs joined the Spiegel & Holmes Show to share insight on his feature story for Chicago Magazine on Crow-Armstrong.

Only in Hot-Tuck Cubs baseball in Chicago Sports every weekday morning. 530 to 10 on 670 to score in the Odyssey out. Shouldn't that six people in homes on that? Someday we'll get that big morning show promotion. Cone. Right now, it's all that. Afternoon show is pretty popular, too. Afternoons on the score.

Zach is right about that. I just saw some stuff that verifies his thoughts on it. It's right about the afternoon show. It's a lovely Saturday afternoon in the park in Mesa. I got to sit there with Ron Coomer and with Lawrence the engineer. Not Lawrence the band or Lawrence the host. Now this is third generation engineer. Third generation, he is Walt the engineer's grandson.

We love our guy, Walt. Best in the business. His grandson is in the family business. And like Taney said in the thread, great engineers skip a generation. That's right. You know? Look, if you're looking for a way into the business, that's one that fairly layoff were recession-proof. And I take it back.

The Melchek-Sinie Boynton lineage there, that does not skip. That translates right down the line. I know. It's true. But, you know, what the Zerangs are to engineers in this town, maybe Walt and Lawrence, are developing a family dynasty. Walt is all, if you need someone in the Southwest, Walt's your dude, and he is out here.

Shout out to Walt. I'm sad I didn't see him. So I'm just out there trying to do a ball game and like keep my head above water as you do in spring training. Yeah, man, exactly. And it's, and little did I know that Chris Tadahill was listening. Yeah, because why not? You know, it's my Saturday.

You knew that he was listening. I don't know. Yeah, why not? You know, so who cares about personal time? I can always watch a Criterion movie any other time. Sure. During the show, maybe. You can hang out with your family some other time.

During categories. So, yes, but there was some interesting stuff, you know, so, you know, the early in spring, these games are not particularly good, although when Speeks calls them just Magnific. And he's got Ron Coomber as a resource. You know, I love hearing Coombe, man. Like, we love Coom around here in this house. And there was some good stuff that I thought when I was listening.

because even though like things that happen in the game don't always matter, but it basically turns into a talk show and who better to, you know, manage that than Speegs. And he's got Coom at his disposal. And there was some interesting stuff there. And, you know, PCA, he's got his article in Chicago Magazine. I think we may get to that at some point this week, if not tomorrow. But I thought Speggs was asking Coom some really pertinent questions about, you know, Pete Crowe Armstrong in his upcoming season.

PCA, that outrageous first half with 25 home runs and a five, four, 44 slugging percentage. And then it slowed down quite a bit in that second half. What did you see as the offense got harder to come by? Here's the 0-1 to PCA. Pops that one up in the air towards third. That's going to be a pop-out to the third basement, Jonah Bride. Well, I think for Pete, you know, league caught up with him a little bit.

They started pitching to his, you know, some of the holes in his swing. They'd elevate the fastball. and then really a lot of stuff out of the zone and letting him chase that and he's just got to tighten that part up and make sure that they're throwing him strikes and if he does that with his ability he's going to do well. You know, the one thing that you see in that last

that bat with the base is loaded, first two pitches, he swung at both of them. When you come up to the plate with the bases loaded and one out, no outs, pressure's really on a pitcher. At times if you can take a few points, pitches, you're going to end up getting into a good hitters count. So, you know, those are things you learn as you progress on as a player. You know, understand who's got the heat on them.

And that's, you know, one of these situations where it's on the pitcher. That was a basis-loaded situation with one out. Pete swung at the first two pitches and popped out the second one. And we know that his swing percentage last year was 59.5 percent, almost 60 percent. Number one, right? Nobody in Major League Baseball swung at more pitches than Pete Crow Armstrong. And there's Ron Coomer telling you, and I can tell you that this was echoed all throughout Cubs camp, any other conversations I had. People are concerned that the league figured Pete out, high fastball, high fastball, and then junk out of the zone.

Good night, everybody. And that Pete has to, he has to adjust back. That's what baseball is. I feel like that scouting report sounds eerily familiar to another very exciting Cubs player. It's pretty funny, man. All the Javi Baez comps that we've thrown out there about Pete because of the electricity that it brings. The emotion with which both of those guys play the game and how beautifully they defend. Yes, yes.

And the relationship with the fans because of it, their electricity on the bases as well. and here we go. If you can't stop swinging, pitchers ain't going to throw you anything good, and you're going to get yourself out. You're going to do their job for him. So there's widespread concern that Pete, you know,

just he needs to adjust back. He needs to swing less. Okay. All right. There's more with Pete that we should talk about, but before that, you're a fan of vibes. Good vibes, babe.

It's on the card. I don't know if you guys know this, but it's on the card. Good vibes, babe. You talked with Coombe about the vibes surrounding Cubs camp. Had a lot of fun doing this game. Just an incredible experience to be out here as a talk show host and an occasional play-by-play guy to get a feel for what's going on out here, Coom. There's a special vibe.

There's not many times as a baseball fan that you can start a spring thinking, your team might be able to win the whole thing. As a baseball player, you didn't have many years where you got to start camp thinking like that, did you? No, you know, it's a special time when your team, when you look around the league and you go, you know, we're a really good ball club. If we stay healthy and we do things, we just do what we're capable of doing. Each guy, you could be playing, you know, games in the last week of October. And that's saying something. And this club is one of those clubs.

There's a few of them around the league. And the Cubs are definitely one of them. And it's been, you know, camp is only, you know, a week and a half into it. But, you know, you can see that this is going to be a very good ball club. Yeah, and things are getting going a little bit earlier because the World Baseball Classic. Some of those guys play in Sayas Suzuki playing center field in the opener yesterday, because that's where he's playing for Team Japan. Matthew Boyd today, PCA today, because he's playing for Team USA.

So guys are ramping up. Yeah, you know, the unfortunate thing for Cub fans is with the World Baseball fans. baseball classic. So a lot of the Cubs players are going to be gone. So they're going to be playing in a world baseball classic. So then once that finishes and guys get a couple of days off, the last few weeks of spring, and all of a sudden you're going to see this team go, and they're going to be together. And so it's going to be a little different spring. It always is with this World Baseball Classic. But rest assured, this is going to be a good ball club. People are very excited about this team and seeing the urgency right from the get-go from every

single player in cap i i mean i i don't know if this is just me being a prisoner of the moment but i feel like the alex bregman signing has a little bit to do with this like i i see a lot of stuff from him like he just we had the chance to talk to him and we like him he's a pretty serious dude like he's very he's a student of the game and he brings that to him so when you're watching him and he post stuff the team post stuff the league post stuff of he's a him doing his work. And you go, oh, okay. Like, that's a guy where you know it's not yaha time.

Like, it's get yourself ready time. And for a team that has expectations, it's the type of player that you need. For sure. And what the signing signified to everybody in that locker room. And what Nico told us last week about how a lot of guys, including him, are on the last year of their deal. And you don't know, you don't know what's going to happen. And there's a whole, like, you know, is there going to be baseball?

next year. Yes. There's that whole thing. There's an urgency to the entire endeavor that you can spin positively. So look, why don't we continue this? Like you were our eyes and ears down there. So let's go back into your notebook and let's talk about some stuff and let's share some funny stuff that happened inside the broadcast as well. And maybe this is a good moment actually to share also the Munitaki Morikami Intel. Should I do that? Is this a good moment? Well, you're threatening me because you think it's going to be a hit piece. I just picture Spee's going down there and trashing the socks player with several baseball humans. That's not what was happening.

I think it's a great signing. It's an outstanding signing. I wasn't encouraged by what she said to us in the meeting speaks. All right, let me share that too. So a little bit more from Cubscap, and I'll share with you some Munitaki Morakami Intel. Yeah. Yeah, more like you're Akami. How about that?

My first piece of advice and one that I'm going to take is, you know, enjoy the season. That's next on the score. On the heels of historic U.S. hockey gold, the score talked to two U.S. hockey and Blackhawk legends, starting with Jeremy Roanick on the Spiegel and Holmes show. Shelly, we call him the godfather of American hockey. You know, he means so much to USA hockey. Then on the Mullen Hoss show. It's B. MGM ambassador Chris Shelley is.

So Sunday morning, your stateside, how did it come to be that they called you? Every game, Matthew and Brady Kachuk were FaceTiming me, trying to get them fired up. At 4 in the morning, I set my alarm the night before thinking these guys are going to call me regardless of the time change. And they did. So it was awesome. To hear the entire interviews with Ronick and Cellios, use the rewind feature on the Odyssey app now. Rahimi Harrison Grody. The great Kevin Harlan.

I just pulled through the Taco Bell, drive-through. and I've got a couple of big, nasty, supreme burritos right here waiting to beat. You know, the first thing they ask you now, are you using the app? No, I just want my burrito. I don't want to use an app. Bring a lot of my old sauce because I'm going to squirt it all over the way. Put some hot sauce on my burrito, baby. Rahimi Harrison Grody, midday's 10 a.m. to 2 on the score.

This is Rahimi Harrison Grotty on 1043, The Score. and Moises by Astero's finally able to go to Cubs camp. He is in Mesa and Craig Counsel said that he would swing the back, quote, casually, end quote, over the next handful of days as he gently increases his workload. In the meantime, we try to figure out who's going to play where? Who's on first? What's on second? I don't know. I don't know.

I can't remember the other positions. Gross, you're the comedy guy. Yeah, I couldn't think of the next line. You guys took the two good lines. We're gatekeeping the good stuff. Yeah, I can't quote it past that right now. But that's kind of how I feel like spring training is for the Cubs. Apparently, we're not the only ones.

Listen to what Bruce Levine, our baseball reporter, had to say to Zach Zadman and David Hall this morning about the jigsaw puzzle that is trying to fit Matt Shaw, Moises by Astero's, say Suzuki's bats in this. this line on. Shaw is much more quiet. You know, watching him in backfields and then in the game yesterday. He is not as much movement. He talked about keeping his head on the ball. You know, it seems like a simple process for us novices, but in reality, he just feels, it felt like when he's, when he's not hitting, he's jerking his head off of the ball. A common thing for hitters when they're, when they're off.

also just less movement in the lower half, just a very brief step forward. The bat speed guys is among the elite in baseball. So this guy should really hit. And I think he will now that he's open to accepting new ideas about his hitting. And, you know, we'll see. I mean, if there's not an injury, it'll probably be. 400 in bats for him, you know, somewhere between third, second, short, right field. You know, we don't know about injuries, but, you know, anything less than that, I think, is

something that's going to impede his progression as the employer. I just don't think you make a 24-year-old guy into a utility guy. It doesn't make sense to me. I think, let me just say this. If he was the number three pick, right? And he wasn't touted. I think there would be consideration that he starts at AAA. Hmm.

Because there's really not a spot for him. You might go out and get yourself a veteran backup for the infield. You seem to have enough outfielders. Alcantra needs to have a chance. He's running out of options here. Is he really a good player in your organization? or is he somebody that they missed on? So let's be real about the situation.

But because he's the number one, because he played third base and they pushed him off, they're going to get pregnant, I think they're putting him in this super utility role and convincing us verbally that that's going to happen. You're going to have to show me it's going to work. If that's the case, the Cubs should not place Matt Shaw's development ahead of winning.

If he's not ready to face Major League pitching, he should be at Iowa. They should find a better alternative. They should not worry about developing a first-round draft pick. I didn't say he wasn't ready for major league pitching. I'm saying there's not a spot for him. I mean, where does he play? He is your guy that you pointed out could get 400 of bats moving between

right field second and third and D.H. And D.H. Yeah. So, I mean, again, you only see a limited amount of left-handed pitchers, starters. you know, Suzuki's going to be your starting right fielder. You have Alcantra, who's the second best defensive player in the CUB organization behind PCA. So, again, it's, you know, I'm not trying to push him out. I'm just saying I believe in Matt Shaw, but I believe he's got a hit at 24.

He's, you know, is it a horrible thing if he went down to AAA and got ready in case somebody got injured there and he got all his ad bats? that's all I'm saying. So here's where I sit with this. I think Bruce is spot on when it comes to because of his value to the organization and his prospect pedigree, I do think that there is a responsibility on the team's part to develop him.

And I'm not saying that they should. I'm saying that it might be one that they put on themselves. The flip side, though, is, and this is an extreme comp, which is why it's not exactly the case. But you don't let this turning into him being Willie Castro, you know?

You don't want this turning into him being a utility guy who's helping give everybody else the day off. And I don't necessarily know that sending him to AAA is the best idea either. I think they want to if they put him in AAA, Marshall, they want to trade him. Because you just said it, Leila,

prospect pedigree. A utility player is not as valuable as a guy that you can call a first round prospect who was getting his work in AAA, who did have value on major league level. So if, and Bruce did not say this, I'm saying this, if they are to start him and leave him in the minor leagues, they're shopping this guy. Well, I think the other thing is

because first Rob Pettigree says a lot. Remember, this guy was the 13th overall pick when he was drafted. He was a standout at Maryland, a standout nationally. And every level of baseball as a minor leaguer, he has hit. He had an OPS over a thousand when it came to the South Bend in the Midwest League, high A, in AA and AAA, an OPS over 929 and 24. That was his OPS, 929 and 24. Gets the chance at the big league level. This is a team obviously competing, has a horrible start, but a lot of players who have gone on to good all-star careers have a horrible start when they start. It just feels like he has less margin for error

because of what the Cubs are deeming as a go-for it year this year. And with the years of control, which are insanely valuable, more so than they've ever been, I think, in Major League Baseball, the years of control, when you figure how teams are, I

wouldn't say hoarding prospects, but how they are valuing them. And you consider that 2027 piece being up in the air, the years of control being so critical, that's what makes this really, really tough. You don't want to waste one of those. You don't want to have him be stuck.

You want her to have value because you placed value on him as well. You traded away Cam Smith. So that was your other massive name. So you're stuck. And when he said that, I'm like, Willie Castro is not the comp. That's not what I'm saying. It's extreme.

But you don't want him to turn into, is the development balance with the utility concept? enough to get the best use out of the talent you have, or is it enough to even if the scenario is trade, are you developing him enough to get a sufficient or acceptable trade value knowing how many years you have with your top prospect? This, for me, guys, comes down to something maybe very simple as we discuss Matt Shaw's role on the 2026 Cubs here on Rahimi Harrison Grotie on 1043,

the score. Is Matt Shaw going to go back to being a, a true pure hitter in the way that he was at every other level before he got to the big leagues last year. We heard Bruce in that interview when he was on with Mullen Hall talk about how his head had gotten more still. The bat speed is still there. You're still getting the miles per hour off the bat.

So can he hit or not? Can he hit or not? Because let me tell you something. Moises biosteros wanted me to tell you, if you can hit, they'll figure out. They'll figure out a place for you in their lineup. She's like Tommy Lestella. Just get out of bed, hit in 98.

miles per hour. You saw him last year? No, I know. Even in the limited time. I know. And look, Shaw, the Cubs did not want to have to have Matt Shaw start last year, or they would not have gone after Alex Bregman like they did last year. They did not want him to be their starting third baseman this year, or they wouldn't have gone out and signed Alex Bregman. And then to all of a sudden put him into Utility Man wasteland, that doesn't sound like a good idea for your prospect. So I'm sticking with that if he does start in the minors, this is a guy.

And I think Spiegel, during Spiegel's report, didn't he say that report that the Cubs had talked to the Red Sox about, I want to make sure I get this right. So I'm not misquoting Spiegel, but talk to the Red Sox as it relates to Matthew Shaw. So it's already out there that the Cubs may have already tried to shop him. So what better place to keep him secure and getting better than the minor leagues? Well, in addition to that, wasn't the conversation originally about Nico Horner? and they're like, while we have you on the phone, yes, exactly. Can we discuss this as well? And to that point, here's my thing,

if, you know, there's no baseball next year or limited baseball next year, the thing the Cubs have is they don't know whether or not Nico Horner is going to be a Cub pass this season. If he's not, Matthew Shaw is a very viable option at second base. It would seem. He's already played it in spring training. Here's the whole thing, like, if he'd be a very valuable

piece to this major league roster, but we're looking at him as the player, as a former first round pick as a player who you can't call it on yet in terms of is he an everyday player. So it's really going to be interesting to see how they use. Like I've had my choice, like selfishly in a year in which we all kind of think the Cubs are going to win and get back into the playoffs. Yeah, keep them on the big league roster for this year. And we wouldn't be in this if the Cubs just come correct. Last off season with Alex Pregman, that's a lot of pressure off Matt Shaw.

If he's just starting the season in AAA last year where he had dominated. the year before because you decided to not be third on who's trying to pay Alex Bregman a year ago. Well, and also the clock that started. You know, that's not as much of an issue now with the new CBA, but it did start when they decided to bring him up. It wasn't a Chris Bryant situation when they were waiting for the arbitrary deadline. You know, that's different. But now that he's up, I don't think sending him back down is the best idea either. But I agree with these guys. You know, I agree with the concept that David brought up and that Bruce was talking about.

That doesn't mean that your development comes at the price of a team who is clearly out to, as Tom Rickett said, win World Series. Multiple. World Series. That would be at least one World Series. Beyond the 2026 season. That's right.

Hey, get back. Beyond the work stoppage. So I think they're trying to just be prepared for whatever lies ahead. But I don't know that relegating him to utility is the best use of everybody's time either. So it's not going to be the best thing for Shaw. Well, hold on. Is it relegating?

Like, I don't know what Matt Shaw's mental makeup is because let's be honest, he hasn't had a lot of adversity before last season in baseball. He had just been dominant in baseball. And so I wonder if he can overcome the idea of today you play second base tomorrow, you come off the bench. the next day you're in right field. I am intrigued and interested to see how he handles that as a player. But one thing he needs to do, regardless of where he is in the field is, not take his fielding to the plate with him. And go back to hitting like you were hitting before last season with the Cubs.

And you know, you bring up Lestella, and you know what that reminded me of, Mark? The Chris Coglin, Lestella, somebody had to be in the minor leagues on a World Series team situation that the Cubs had in 2016. That was tense. Yeah. Yeah, I know it was. And I thought Lestella, too, actually, starting at third base against the Pittsburgh Pirates because of his ability to hit 98 with movement. But yeah, I mean, the whole thing is, and somebody's texting here from the 3-1-2, can Shaw become Zobrist?

Of course, that's the dream. But Zobras becoming Zobrist was over many years before he became this, obviously, this super utility guy who was. was a made man essentially. He was a made man by the time he came to the Cubs and was able to play multiple positions. But that's the name that always pops up, of course. Well, and Zobris did not have the career with the organization who drafted him. In the career? That was a, yes, Rome, yes.

That was the Astros. You know, who's with the Astros system before he ended up going to Tampa. Yeah, before he ended up coming here. Yeah. Also 312 on the text line. Uh-huh. What you got? Might be time to option shot in the minors.

and let him learn how to stay out of triple plays on the basis. Yeah, what was that? It was not good. I can tell you that. It's a triple play. You know what's really funny, too, is you know the first thing I think of because I'm baseball old lady. How do you score that on your box score?

If you're keeping score at home. I was not keeping score at home of a spring trading game. I'm just going to get that out right now. It started 9-6, right? I think I wrote it down somewhere here. Did you really? I did. I did write it down.

So I have it here officially. Oh, good. Oh, you did. Okay. But I would like to hear your recollection of this. Well, I don't. Was it the shortstop or the second base when you threw? That's all I need to know.

It was right fielder. So it was, it was. Nine. So say, Oh, here it is. It's just listed as a single on MLD.com, which is stupid. Four, three, six, five? Wait, wait, no, no.

But it started with nine. It was fly ball to right field. Okay. So that's, that's nine. Oh, yeah. No, no. No, no. It was a single.

Say a single, fly ball to right field. It's not an out. an out. No, I got that. It's a newer type of thing. No, here's what it says, though. Here's why this is so wheels off. Sayas Suzuki singles on a fly ball to right field or

John Holi. Sayas Suzuki flies into a triple play. Second baseman, Luis Arayes, to first baseman Raphael Devers, to shortstop Willie Adamas. So that's four, three, six, to third baseman, Matt Chapman, five. Matt Shaw out at third, five unassisted.

Alex Bregman out at third. Sayah Suzuki out at first. Three out. Four, three, six, five. But hold on. Why is it not nine, four, six, three, six, five, because the single, he initially, he's the first person to touch the ball. But that's not an out, though.

It doesn't need to be an out. Somebody has to touch the ball first. It's like if I, technically, he flew into a triple play. If I, if I hit the ball to you as the pitcher, it goes off of you, and then the second basement throws it to first, that's scored as one, four, three. You see what I'm saying? Uh, I guess. If it hits you, yeah.

If you touch the ball. Right, right. Like, that's, the second baseman. But a single is a single as a single. Yes. So how is that an out? How is it not, how is that an out? I don't like that.

No, I'm saying everybody who touches the ball, though, right? On a. I see what you're saying. Yeah. But I have it down as 4, 365. Is that what you have it down as? No, because it's MLB.com and I'm just reading. So is it 9, 4, 3.

Well, because it says flies into a triple play, which is akin to what Marshall is saying. And by the way, this, this discussion of baseball minutia from a failed, play that ended up being a triple play? Can I just tell you this? This is what I'm here for. I love it all. I needed this. I needed to know how to score a fake game

on a play that was clearly a player error. And that's what resulted in some sort of triple play. I enjoyed the triple play, especially when I realized, oh, they don't, Matt Shaw doesn't know. And then Alex Bergman kind of looks at him. Scottie doesn't know. Yeah, sorry.

Sorry about this, Bregman. Sorry. Did you see the way they looked at each other? Like, why are you coming off the bag? Ope. We didn't want you to have to be a part of this kind of thing this early on in your Cubdom. But hey, and they were even asked them on it afterwards. Exactly.

Exactly. If you're going to have, that's what I would say about spring training. And even like preseason NFL, get all your bad plays out of, I want to see errors. I want to see bad triple plays. I want to see guys being late. All that. Like get it all out of your system before the season starts. So good.

Also, you know who was a part of it because you're asking yourself. well wait isn't there say somebody who helps on the coaching staff at third base to kind of like tell the runners when to go and when not to go quittenberry was turned the other way like i'm like we're three days into this and i have to ask what quittenberry was doing we went through this way too many times last year the third base coach cannot be the story multiple times in a year how many games did that cost them three to five May more? You're going to go the over. I mean, go ahead. No, I can't. I can't say over five. That's outrageous. But it was. When you consider Kyle Tucker is a five war player. That's a good question. What is the limit for times that you want to hear about the base coaches in a consequential way throughout a season?

That's one. That's one, Gwittenberry. Where do you set the over under though? Two, three? Like where, how many errors is a third base coach allowed to make during a season? Just turn your body and not your head. And then you've got. angles on both. Oh, man. Like what? Don't do it. Don't become waven Wendell Kim.

That's the last, the, the previous third base coach to Quentin Berry back in the day that I can remember being way too much of consequence. I just can't believe I'm here again already. Coming up next on Rahimi Harrison Grady, it's halftime. I have a story for you two that is taken over the internet. I think we can identify with him. that's next Sneakow Horner they want me to give you a score better best

T-shirt we did there see we are never afraid to co-opt 104 the score yeah how about it see now that's a man that's going to be a talk show home someday afternoon's on the score I grew up going to Dodgers games when they weren't always good when they had like manny would pop up

but it's like they go in phases And I remember, like, you know, all fans fighting stuff, but, like, putting the Giants fan in the coma. Like, that stuck with me as a kid. Like, it's little things, you know, and sitting in the stands, just nasty stuff goes on. I didn't always experience that at other ballparks. But like I said, that has nothing to do with who's actually on the field for them.

I love playing against them. And I love, I just love what they're doing right now because they're creating a dynasty. But I want to take them down, too. Chicago Magazine has a piece on PCA. It's called Welcome to the Show. Photography by Evan Sheehan is really outstanding. And you can see some of it online if you want at ChicagoMag.com.

The writer of the piece is our friend, Wayne Drey's, who joins us now here on the score. Wayne, thanks for joining us, man. We appreciate it. Yeah, of course. It's good to talk to you guys. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Yeah, we haven't talked to you since the Conner.

Bedard piece, which was phenomenal. But this piece is amazing. There's so much good stuff in here. Like, Pete is really falling for the city. Isn't he? Like, I love Chicago more and more. The people are great. They give

a crap, is what Pete says in your article. I feel like he gets us after reading this. Yes, he does. He loves the authenticity of the city. He loves the edge of the city. He told me.

He's really falling in love with it, you know, and I don't know if he knew, you know, his dad's from Naperville. You know, obviously, Naperville's who were well-versed. I live there. It's a little different than Chicago. But he just loved the vibe of the city connecting with fans and the bleachers. I'll tell you, it has been so entertaining seeing Dodgers fans twist themselves into a pretzel the last couple of days over that quote. I knew when Pete said it, I was like, oh, this is going to be.

going to rile some people up. But really, like, I didn't think it would become what it has, in part because the quote was more about how much he loves Chicago than it was a shot at L.A. To your point, Wayne, he finishes by saying there aren't just baseball fans who go to the game like Dodgers fans to take pictures and whatever. They are paying attention. They care. I didn't realize people are running with that.

Yeah. He's just praising Chicago. That's what he's doing. I mean, yeah, with a little knock on LA, which is fine. You know, I appreciate, I mean, you guys know this, right? Like, in this world, give me the athlete who speaks their mind, who is real, who is genuine, who isn't, you know, sanitized by all their PR handlers. Give me that 10 times out of 10 over somebody who's manufactured.

I mean, I just, I wish we had more people like PCA, you know, like Ben, Johnson taking shots at the Packers who say what they're thinking. This is your wheelhouse. These are the types of really incredible interviews that you've done for over two decades in our business. What made PCA a compelling figure for you? Yeah, you know, Lawrence, when he first came up and I watched him on the field, you know, I think it's pretty easy to immediately build a stereotype.

And I'm going to use his words here that sometimes he looked. So I saw this guy come up who acted that way, and you sort of wonder, is that who he is? And then every time I would see him in an interview or, you know, last fall when he wrote that little piece he did for the Players Tribune, and you hear how incredibly introspective he is and self-aware he is. I was like, okay, I'm like, there's a great tension here. You know, and I went to Chicago Mag and kind of pitch this idea of like, look, like, I think P is a fascinating character, you know, that there's sort of a persona on the field and the person he is off the field

and kind of the tension between them. And I'm so grateful. I mean, I love to do these stories. There's, you know, far fewer places to do them now, and I'm grateful that we have, you know, a magazine like Chicago that still invest in these long-form stories, and we still can tell them. It's a good one to have around the house.

I subscribe to the hard copy so I can read stuff like this and take my time with it, and it was a joy to do so. That tension is fascinating. He talked a lot to you about the emotional troubles. A time. That plague him with so much awareness,

he says about the emotions and the anger. The emotions and the anger tired me out. You could see it. in the second half. I know that sets me up for failure, but it's the truth. I mean, that's fascinating to be a young kid and know that and still not be able to stop it. That's relatable. 100%.

The first question that I asked him going down that path is I asked him, how do you balance the way you play the game, your hair on fire, with sort of this laid-back, let it go approach that you have to have in a game where you are going to fail far more than you're going to succeed. And he looked at me and he was like, I suck at it. And then that just opened the door to really kind of dig it in and talking about that. You know, he told me that, you know, he would go home at night and toss and turn and not be able to sleep because he's pissed at himself, not because he, you know, went 0 for 4 or struck out or whatever, but because the way he would slam his helmet and handle those struggles.

And, you know, he goes, I think to myself, I didn't put this in the piece, but he said, I think to myself, there are a bunch of kids that are out of Wrigley today watching me play that are big fans, and then they're going to go home to, you know, frigging Wienneka or whatever it is, and their little league game next week and slam their helmet, you know, and act like a jerk because they think that's okay. And he's like, I have to figure out how to find this balance. I thought the line that John Maley said to me that he calls Pete the Hulk because Pete's trying to figure out when to be Bruce Banner

and when to turn green, I thought that was so spot on. What's crazy is that we did maybe four or five shows about this last season because it bothered Speaks. Speaks had gone to a game. You were what in the on-deck circle basically sitting, right? Yeah, I was close enough to see it play out the way that you're talking about. and I said something like exactly what Pete said to you. Like, man, there's kids watching this, and they're going to go do it. And we brought it up to Craig Counsel, and counsel was beautiful about it, a beautiful response saying,

the same stuff that makes Pete great is the stuff that can get in his way. So how do you work on that if you're a young ball player, Wayne? I mean, I think, you know, if I knew I would be a ball player speaks, but I think that it comes with, I think it comes with experience. I think it comes with having perspective. You know, I think, you know, Nico and, you know, Ian Hap and Dansby and now Alice Bregman are incredible resources. And, you know, we saw last year with Pete and Justin Turner, he kind of globs on to those veterans and tries to learn from them. You know, I think the first step in this is to understand it's a problem and face it.

And obviously Pete is aware of that. And so, you know, the fine line that Craig is trying to manage is look like you need that energy. He is in many ways the emotional engine of that team. You want him flying out of the dugout to celebrate a walk off and, you know, pounded his chest when he legs out of triple, whatever the case may be. But finding the line of playing that way and then, you know, not essentially having a temper tantrum. when you strike out in a key spot and understanding that's the game, right? Like the key to being a successful baseball player is accepting and understanding that you are going to fail more than you succeed and learning how to deal with that.

And at the highest level, he knows he has to do that. And I think him knowing it is a big, big first step. Wayne Dre is joining us here on Spiego and Holmes as we talk about the piece that Wayne wrote for Chicago Magazine. please go read it. Chicagomag.com. You can check it out on PCA. You've done profiles of hundreds of players across a bunch of different sports.

And I'm sure that the concept of dealing with failure has come up multiple times. Is there anyone that you can think of that Pete may be comps to, or you think might be a good guiding light on how you should approach this next phase of his career? Boy, that's a great question, Lawrence. you know, I'm thinking, Pete's a little bit unique in that the time that I'm writing about him is so early in his career. And a lot of the people that I wrote about over the years

were further along. You know, I think of, you know, Michael Phelps or Lewis Hamilton, who had won a lot already, right? But I'll tell you, I have another story coming out next month in Chicago Magazine about someone you know well, Kelly Amante Hiller. And I kind of explored the years when Northwestern lacrosse didn't win and what was wrong. And she has an incredible take on the way she had to recalibrate how she coaches.

And essentially, essentially she had to learn how to lose in order to get back to winning. And I think there's many parallels there with failure and learning to, except failure. No, look, you know, I've said to Kelly, it's a lot easier to say it's okay to lose when you've got, you know, eight and say titles on your resume, right? But I do think, like, there are parallels there in the mental approach. She's incredibly well-versed in that, but understanding the mental approach to the game and how you have to deal with that is so critical. Wayne, we know you love baseball, and it's that failure piece, man. And I'm thinking about so many different things. I always think of

Ted Williams asked about it after you at 400. How do you feel? He said, how would you feel if your boss gave you 10 jobs to do and you did six of them wrong? It's like these guys torture themselves. Does anybody torture themselves more than baseball players among

athletes? No, I don't think so. I mean, I don't think that there's a sport where you fail as much as baseball, right? I mean, I've coached both of my daughters in their softball teams. and, you know, that is the biggest challenge of teaching kids that in early age is like, hey, like, it is, you are going to strike out. You are going to fail. You just said, right? Ted Williams is going to be the greatest sitter of all time, and he failed six out of ten times, and that's the best to ever do it.

So, no, I mean, that is the sport to me where failure is so prominent. And you know what? I mean, you know this, Speaks, but it is a team sport. that is individual, right? It is ultimately a pitcher and a batter in an individual moment, one versus the other. And yes, you've got teammates, you have people trying to catch the ball and whatnot, but it's a team sport that's individual, and I think that is the unique challenge,

because when you fail in that individual moment, you feel that you're letting your whole team down as opposed to if you fail in a golf tournament or a tennis match or a more, you know, individual, individual sport. So for people who don't know, and you were nice enough to talk about this on Hal Sevel, will you explain to people how you enjoy the 2016 World Series and the choices that you had to make as an individual? Yeah, of course.

I found out, gosh, sometime that fall, as the Cubs are marching to the World Series, and I had an aneurysm in my heart, I didn't have any symptoms or anything. and basically was told that you needed life-saving open-heart surgery to be able to continue to live essentially. And so the fine folks, the Cleveland Clinic, told me I needed to come there and have this procedure done. And I told them, that sounds great, but I'm going to wait until after the World Series. And they were like, well, I mean, how do you know the Indians are going to make it? And I was like, oh, no, oh, no, no, no, this is about the Cubs, right? And this is before the playoffs even started.

And so, yeah, so my doctors, you know, gave me the blessing that I could wait until the World Series is over. And my wife, God bless her, reluctantly agreed that we could do that as well. And then you watched the most stressful World Series in history. Oh, my God. I mean, like, yeah, game seven, I was an absolute disaster, right? Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, they won on a Wednesday, and then that fall – So they went on Wednesday.

That Sunday I flew to Cleveland, and then Monday morning, you know, got rolled into a surgery suite at the Cleveland Clinic. And this very nice South African man cut open my chest and saved my life, and I've been fantastic ever since. So was the fear that if something went horribly wrong, you would not be around for this series? Or was the fear that you would miss maybe go into games? Like, what was the process here? Here, the deal, my thing was, it wasn't that I would miss it. I didn't love the thought of having, like, recovering from open heart surgery while watching the World Series.

Like, I wanted to be comfortable, and I'm like, I don't want to, like, have to, like, hold a pillow or I can't cough or cheer? Like, I don't know what the rules were going to be. But I was like, can I just watch this, like, a normal person? I couldn't handle going to games. I mean, I stayed on the couch the whole postseason. And I couldn't even get anyone close to Riggily. But I wanted to be comfortable.

Well, that is insane, but it also makes you the right guy to write this piece on Pete Crowe Armstrong. A hundred percent, it makes way in the right guy. Before we let you go, one more personal question. Boog Shambi's going to be on the show at 525. And I have dubbed you both the guys I know that have the most pair of Jordans. So how many pairs of Jordans are you up to now? No, I mean, I've been a Jordan. I've kind of expanded also into like the dunk world.

I would guess I'm probably somewhere around 50 or so. That's a good number. Probably more than me. I don't know. That's a pretty solid number. 50 is a lot. I've seen the booge collection. It's impressive.

I think I teach journalism at the University of Iowa, somewhere around college kids all the time. And I'm realizing now that the sneaker game has become an old man game. Yeah. And none of the kids wear shoes like that. They're all wearing these, like, sacca joia sandals or something. I don't know what they're wearing. And I'm walking around in these, like, beautiful Jordans,

and nobody's like, hey, like, nice shoes or anything. Like, they're like, where are your sandals? It's like Dad Rock. You know, you might as well be wearing a Wilco. We're wearing a Wilco t-shirt. Totally. That is a man in his 40s right there wearing Jordan. 100%.

Wayne, as always, man, you're the best. Great piece on PCA. And we look forward to the California. Eli Amante Hiller story, that's going to be major. I appreciate you guys. Thanks so much for having me. Good to hear your voices. Thanks, Wayne. That's Wayne Drey's. He's awesome, man.

Yeah, man. That article is killer. Go check it out. More PCA conversation a little bit later on in the show in the 5 o'clock hour. Yeah, we'll get to it. We can reset a couple things too here in the next segment and react to some things. And AJ, our buddy, had some words with PCA. We'll share that with you next here on the score. On the heels of historic U.S. hockey gold, the score talked to two U.S.S. hockey and Black Hawk legends,

starting with Jeremy Roneck on the Spiegel and Holmes show. Chelly, we call him the godfather of American hockey. You know, he means so much to USA hockey. Then on the Mullen Hoss show. It's B. MGM ambassador Chris Shelley is. So Sunday morning, your stateside, how did it come to be that they called you? Every game, Matthew and Brady Kachuk were facetiming me. trying to, you know, get them fired up.

At 4 in the morning, I set my alarm the night before, thinking these guys are going to call me regardless of the time change. And they did. So it was awesome. To hear the entire interviews with Ronick and Cellios, use the rewind feature on the Odyssey app now. What if buying and servicing a luxury car was as effortless as driving one? At Genesis of Algonquin, it is.

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