Rahimi, Harris & Grote Show - Joel Lorenzi talks new-look Bulls, Celtics trading Jaylen Brown to 76ers

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

Leila Rahimi and Chuck Swirsky were joined by Joel Lorenzi of The Athletic to discuss the Bulls' moves this offseason and the latest high-profile trade in the NBA.

Norman Powell with the Eurostep and a floater with right hand good from three feet. Norman Powell in 22 minutes has hurt the Bulls with 13. Powell, unattended, topside three good. Wow. I mean, Bill, this is the second time he's having an open triple. The guy shooting 45% from three-point range and 48% over the last 10. I know that voice. Well, he was wide open, Leila.

You can't give Norman Powell a good look. That's a guy named Chuck Swirsky on the call. He's here in studio right now and Bill Weddington on the Bulls Radio Network. It's a great way to introduce our, and yes, you are, Joelle Lorenzi, a valued guest of our show. Yes, he is. The Chicago-based seatwriter for the athletic covering the NBA. He joins us on Twitch. Twitch.tv slash The Score Chicago.

Hey, Joel. What's going on, guys? Feeling very valued. Yeah, see, you got backup. That's three hosts now who have to be. you this on our station. I will keep going. I will keep building numbers for this. No, Joelle is great. I always tell him that. I love his work. In fact, during the finals, or the Western Conference finals, I saw him at Courtside. I told him the other day.

He had a great seat at midcourt right there. I mean, that speaks for itself, Joel. Yeah, the world can see NEO TV. We are always happy to talk to you. What a day to be able to catch up with you after just a massive day in the NBA. We discussed the Jalen Brown-Tray. We wanted to get your thoughts. We played highlights of Norm Powell, thanks to Chuck and Bill that you heard there. So what is on your mind first?

What would you like to start discussing? Bulls are just what you've observed in the league so far? Yeah. I think it's the craziest offseason of my lifetime. I don't know how Chuck feels. I think it's the craziest offseason I've ever witnessed. Certainly the craziest since I've been on the NBA beat.

It's just been so explosive. Like even before free agency started and then you know i just thought that you know free agency couldn't be that crazy because we got some stuff out of the way before then and it's it's exceeded expectations the the the sheer uh the level of surprises the volume of like oh my gosh headlines it's um it's been crazy like yonis is kind of like a backdrop to this whole thing now i mean obviously that thing's not official yet um so maybe that's part of the reason but like jaylon brown just got traded for a horrible package, man.

So, like, this is what we're talking about. Kauai is like a, like, fall in the background. The East is like, the East is no longer sneaky, man. Like, I'm kind of waiting on LeBron to go to the East, so this thing can really be back. Well, I think he's going to Cleveland, Joel, to be honest with you, unless Washington parts with Davis to Golden State, and somehow they'll make it work with LeBron going to the Warriors.

But for now, my thought process is that LeBron is said to Cleveland, and that will bookend his career with the Cavaliers. But, Joelle, you know, you don't mention him not necessarily you. We don't know a player unless we're with them day and day out. And I've dealt with Jaylen on a, Jalen on a few times. He's always been great, very professional, very thoughtful, very considerate. And I like him a lot. Something happened in Boston that made Brad Stevens and ownership make this. deal. And there's a lot of stuff on the internet about their personality. They had clashes. They weren't sold on them. So on and so forth. I want to know why they move Jalen Brown.

Right. Yeah. I mean, upon first seeing the Shams suite, my first thought was this was not, you trade a guy like Jalen Brown who like at any point could be like a top 10ish player. Like it's on the table for Paul George who we know his. best days are behind him. He's maybe a top 30 player. Had his moments in the playoffs last year. But by both accounts, on all facets, a worst player than Jaylon Brown. And the picks were not all that great.

They did not get their best assets. They did not get a lot of assets. I get that, but this was really not an NBA trade. That's what I'm saying. I said all that to say that my first thought was this was not a basketball trade. This was, I've read about their ownership, their new ownership that is, and the involvement of private equity. Yes. And their priorities. And I do think that was a good chunk of it.

Obviously, you get deeper into Jaylen Brown's contract. He's paid, like, much more than a top 10 player. He's paid, like, a top three player. I would agree. If you are greedy and you do sort of prioritize profit and really have no no skin in the game on the basketball front and that's not your priority, then I could see why you do that. Also, like, this is speculation, but I imagine once it becomes public that Jalen Brown's name is, like, firmly being tossed in trades, even if it is for a guy like Yana Sancta Kumpo, I imagine it rubs him

the wrong way. I mean, I've seen posts on Twitter. I haven't verified this myself, but I don't know. I mean, the videos are in front of us. I don't know why people would doctor this of Jaylen Brown liking comments on Instagram where, you know, people are commenting, well, he should go to an organization where they actually respect him. And he's liking those comments on Instagram. So I imagine at some point this summer, some of these things rubbed him the wrong way. And it was this culmination of all these things where somebody forced Brad Stevens' hand, I had to imagine. I don't just think he, I guarantee you of mine as great as Brad Stevens.

to not make this trade with the Boston Seltz getting back to Tier 1 in mind. Like this, it feels like his hand is kind of forced. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of where I sit with it, Joel. And Chuck and I were talking about this both on the show and then during the break. Is I get why your name would be brought up for Janus. You're talking about some of the biggest names in the league who were brought up for Janus. But then the fact that it stayed there, that's what made it so shocking. And then to see him move it, I agree with you, Paul George being,

part of the return and George had that suspension too if you guys recall. 25 games. Yeah. So that I also think that that may have factored into the return on this in a way where we as a man are looking at this saying, you know, what was the move here? Yeah. Well, Paul George's market, it's well documented. Paul George's market was poor.

Like it was not great. And it was, I mean, there was talk out there that Janlon Brown's market was not what it would be for a player of his caliber, mostly because of the contract. But, yeah, I mean, mostly because of the contract. And so, like, neither of these players' market was where you would want it to be. And it's all about leverage. And I think you've, I think, I think you've seen that across this whole free agency slash off-season period where, like, people are, people are comparing that return to the

Walker Kessler return, because obviously I do think Danny Aege fleece the Lakers. But like these trades are not one for one, man. All trades are not created equal. Like leverage is different based on decision makers and team settings and cap. I mean, there's so many things involved here. But it is safe to say like neither of these guys markets were what they should have been. I mean, Paul George's was especially poor from what I understand. So, Joelle, here's my question.

I think we can all agree. Great signing by the Bulls for Norman Powell. and they have a team option for you or two, so in case things don't work out, the Bulls can pivot and move on. But they've got this mid-level for $9 million. What are you expecting with that? Do you think the Bulls are going to use it?

Do you think they could revisit Anthony Simons? Or where do you see that going? Yeah, that's interesting. We'll see, right? I do think Anthony Simons is a very, It's not unlikely. I do know there are other suitors. Like, I believe Dallas is one.

Clearly, he can be more useful to teams than I think the Bulls, which is like when I see people drawing certain targets to the Bulls is offseason, it's like my first thought is, well, how much more useful, like Isaiah Joe, how much more would Isaiah Joe serve Detroit than he would the Bulls? That's where my mind goes. And so I think Anthony Simons could better serve. And it's not like he's on contract like Isaiah Joe. He's a free agent.

So while I do think it's not unlikely, I don't know. I mean, there's also the possibility. I don't know if people are talking about this, like leaving the spot open for flexibility. Like every time I was around in Thunder, the Thunder always did that because they would leave themselves some room to sort of do something at the deadline if that was what they wanted to do, if they wanted to help facilitate something.

Like, there's always that possibility. But, yeah, I think this could go a bunch of different ways. We're talking to Joel Lorenzi of the Athletic, covering the NBA. He's based here in Chicago on Rahimi Harrison Brody, Chuck Swirsky, fill it in for Marshall. You can see Joel on Twitch, twitch.tv. slash the score Chicago. And, Joelle, what do you think of just the whole way the bulls got put together that we've seen? Claxton, then you see the re-signing of Zincinn.

Zach Collins. Norm Powell gets out at which addresses the shooting conversation that a lot of us wanted to have. What are your impressions of this whole picture now that we get to see of this team? Yeah. In totality, I think the offseason has been fine. It didn't blow me away, but it did not hamage the Bulls either. I think they have a lot of flexibility and optionality, especially with the three deals you mentioned,

the extension of Zach Collins and Norman Powell and obviously Nick Claxton. Like those are those are guys that potentially like if you decide one, I think they serve two purposes. One, if you decide that, you know, should they be healthy, mostly in the case of Claxton and especially Zach Collins, if they're healthy, if they serve their purpose, can you flip these guys at the deadline or next summer? Can you give them a short term look and get very bad? value at this because I do think the priority for this front office is still future assets.

So that's one purpose. But I do also think in the short term, specifically with Claxton and Norman Powell, you get a couple guys, a couple archetypes of players that should be beneficial as you're trying to develop Caleb Wilson and Dalyan Swain and play with a team that also involves Josh Giddy. like Norman Powell, like by no means is the shooting like completely addressed. Like this is still, this is a team full of guys who don't have reputations as shooters. They're still going to play Isaac O'Coro, still going to play Josh Giddy. They're still going to play Trey Jones. I want to see what a Senge can do, you know? Sure.

As far as I know, he's not a shooter either, Chuck. No, he's not. But I want to see him on the floor just so I can evaluate his skill set. Yeah, fair enough. And so I do think Norman Powell, while the shooting is not completely addressed, he is this volume of shooter, this historically efficient shooter, both on off the ball. He can attack closeouts. He can create a little bit. He can get you 20 if that is what that night requires.

He gives you this versatility as a shooter that, frankly, like, if Caleb Wilson is going to play in a post sum or create inside the arc, like he needs that space. And this team needs that spacing to sort of grow into the things they need to grow into. And then Nick Claxton, as far as I can tell, like, Zach Collins has only played so much. Even still, Nick Claxson, the idea of him is that he can be a sort of lob threat and vertical spacer, which this Bulls team, this core, has not really had yet. So it'll be something I think Caleb Wilson and really Josh Giddy can use as they sort of develop. No, I think that's fair. It's trying to kind of put this all together. and Chuck and Joel, I feel like we're on a three-man weave here

trying to envision how this picture gets put together with the Bulls. I do want to ask you, since you are the NBA guy, and there have been so many moves. Like Chuck and I didn't even get to them all, like Kauai being a part of this, for example, is an afterthought in all of this, like you just said. What else have you noticed that has been notable? Like Mitch Robinson going to the Celtics to me is also pretty big,

leaving the Knicks after they just win the title. What stands out to you both? start with Joelle and then check obviously fill in the gaps. I think two things. I've been wondering about this. I do think it's amazing to see how much really strong executives are really kneeling to the new apron rules. Like it's like I'm watching Sam Press you do things. He never have to do at a rate I've never seen him do.

To trade. I mean, look, Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins. they did not feature all that much in their playoff run. But those are guys who are like regular season innings either like king value rotational players for them. Usually they could just stash and covet and not be bothered. But now they're trading them for scraps and they have no leverage because people know the situation they're in. I'm seeing that across the league. And there's just sort of, there's a sort of different value in picks now as far as I can tell.

It seems kind of hard to just shed contracts and be able to, you know, like teams, teams can't, as far as I could tell, acquire bad contracts and get good draft conversation out of it. Like it doesn't seem like teams are doing it this time around. There are some weird trends kind of being buried by the sheer names that are being dealt here. Well, I'll say this. I've been covering the NBA for five, maybe six decades. It's hard to believe that it's true. And I will say this. I have never seen an offseason. I think Joelle is right like this. Yeah. I mean, there are superstar trade after superstar. Now, the Raptor's ownership has a great relationship with Kwai. You know, he went a championship there in 2019. They have a good relationship with their alums like tomorrow, too. Yes, they do. So I'm not. I'm not.

surprised that why I got moved, but I will say this. I think with, and people, and I'm not a capologist, but the aprons have changed the mindset of owners who are going to their GMs and say, this is as much as I can go, and you're not going over it. I mean, think about this, Joel. The Knicks win the championship. Two days after they win the championship in an interview, James Dolan, the owner of the New York Knickerbockers probably the number one revenue producing franchise

in the NBA says you know what, not going second apron and here they just won the title and I was taking aback I'm thinking okay they're going to go over they're going to get in the second apron and yeah it'll probably tie their hands for a pick

who cares they're going to draft like 27 28 yeah and but no Mitchell Robinson? I mean, like, what do you think, Joelle? Yeah, I agree. I mean, Mitchell Robinson is a Boston Celtic. And what world would that happen without these restrictions and owner who can unabashedly say something like that, like James Dover. It's a, it's a strange, strange world, man. And you're seeing stuff like that all around the league. It's actually scary. And it's why I really, I really tread water when I try to

critique like like throw a blanket on my critiques of decision makers because the job is is already hard to like team build but like now even when you get like close to the finish line it's becoming especially hard so so we'll see we'll see what happens in the league this next year but it feels like the teams like let's say you like what the sixers did I mean they are a better team than they were yesterday. I think they're probably in Sierra One of the East right now. But their runway, I don't know that it's all that great. Like you're kind of walking into these things, knowing that your runway is not all that sustainable because of the apron, because of these restrictions, because other teams can sort of act on the leverage of the thunder and the spurs and

all these other teams who are eventually going to have to deal with the same thing. Like, there are teams, if you're sitting in the back, if you're, you're sitting in the proverbial bleachers, you can get good off leveraging these teams who are facing an apron. Like that might be the best way to net assets, waiting on the, waiting on a thunder, waiting on the Celtics, waiting on the Sixers, they'd be like, okay, like, you're going to have to get off a Payton Pitchard pretty soon. I need a Paden Pitchard. Like, it's, it's really weird stuff. Well, and that's, I want to give you credit, Joelle, for putting that out there, because the way you said it, you know, we're seeing these, these sea change moments in the least.

league, you know, whether it's the Thunder Pacer series last year in the finals or whether it's, I thought it was going to be, the Spurs are going to be a dynasty again. And I growing up in Dallas just to have to accept it and deal with that. And I was not emotionally ready for it. So I'm very happy the next one. But I think you're right. Like these trades are, there's some sort of warning. I just can't figure out what it is yet.

So I credit you for also kind of seeing that in advance how you guys are talking about. Yeah. Again, Leila, we're starting to. to see a trend. And I don't know if it's healthy or not, but when major players in their prime are getting moved, with the exception of Paul George. Yannis is still in his prime. The needle is going, but he still in his prime. Paul George also got moved in his prime. Yes, he did. That built the thunder as we've talked about. Twice, by the way. Yeah, yeah. Twice. And Joel knows about that all too well. Yes, he does. But I'm saying these trades are not, as Joel and I discuss with you, they are not

basketball trades. There is financial reasons for this, and I do believe that the owners are going to their general managers and say, we need to talk. Okay, where are we at right now? Are we a first-tier team, second-tier team? Are we on the cusp? Because if you can't look at me in the eyes and say, we need to make this move to go into the top five or six in the conference, I don't want to do this because I don't want to pay the tax. And so do your best. Come to me. Look at the roster. Tell me what we have and then go from there. Yeah, Joel, I'll give you the last word on that, too. And it makes me wonder, I do think, like, Isaiah Stewart and no other summer gets dealt for second round picks. Correct. I love Isaiah Stewart. I love Isaiah Stewart, too.

And so, and I know that I was the critique of Bryson Graham from a faction of bulls. fans the summer, which is like fair. Like, why couldn't you go get, I just do it? To me, it's kind of signals that I do think, because Isaiah Joe was also dealt for seconds. One, I do think there's this perspective. I can only speak to San Presti here, but San Presby, I know, would make it a priority to get his guys to a destination where they can continue to compete. That's a priority.

That's why Aaron Wiggins is in Atlanta, and that's why Isaiah Joe is in Detroit. It's a big part of it. Also, they really had less leverage to it. And I just think it makes me wonder if Bryson Graham liked any of these guys who were from these teams. Like Isaiah Joe, you would think is a seamless fit. Why would you pass on him? But it makes me wonder how far ahead he's thinking. And if he's looking at the teams who are going to be up against the apron next year

and saying, well, we can pluck this guy from them. I mean, he's sort of on our age timeline. Can we make a push for him? That's what that makes me believe. If you did not want Isaiah Joe, or if you could not even get into Isaiah Joe race or beef stew, maybe beef stew wasn't your kind of player, then who are you eyeing a summer from now?

Because it's going to come for all these scenes eventually. Yes, and don't think for a moment they aren't thinking about already the summer of 27. They are because the Collins contract alone tells you there. Just based on how it's structured. Well, I mean, Joe, how about this? I mean, there are team options now on many of these contracts. In the old regime, it was a player option. Yeah, this is true.

I don't have to remind Bulls fans of that. So that optionality is, I suppose, refreshing for somebody who wants to be a good team build. You know what's refreshing about this whole thing is that Bryson Graham has come in and been as transparent as one can possibly be in the position? he is. He's not going to tell us everything, and I respect that. I get it. He's told us a lot, though. But yeah, and you know what? I already appreciate the fact that he is speaking for the organization and not sending out his head coach to be the face of the franchise. I love Billy Donovan. I think he was put in some very difficult, tough, awkward situations.

Absolutely. That's all I got to say, Joelle. That's far, Chuck. But I will say this just in a Shams tweet Anthony Simons is a sixer Oh wow Oh man What a savvy move that is for them Bob Myers

You can't tell me Bob Myers Is a part of this You can't tell me I know Mike Gansy's the guy Joel But listen Everything runs through Bob Myers I just got the text from Ray Because the Wi-Fi here is spotty in my chair

Damn that's good stuff Joel thank you so much For being a part of this You see you're awesome Joe, you know that. I tell you that all the time. I know. How many times do we need to tell you? You're a valued guest. Now you're breaking news, too. Are you right now? Man.

We love it. Joel, thank you so much. You're welcome any time. You know that. That is Joelle Lorenzi, who really is a valued guest. There he is telling us about the Anthony sign. We, oh, this is, this is the time, Chuck. July 1st, July 2nd, things are just cooking. Yep. How about that? We'll address this a little bit on the other side. And then there's also an article that came in just a lot of trade talk. NBA trades happening. The MLB trade deadline is coming up. The athletic reported about the Cubs. We'll do it all next.