Rahimi, Harris & Grote Show - Matt Shaw needs at-bats to get better, but how will he get them?

Episode Date: February 13, 2026

Leila Rahimi and Marshall Harris discussed whether the Cubs will get utilityman Matt Shaw regular playing time without a clear starting spot at any position. Shaw needs regular at-bats to get better, but will he get them?

This hour is brought to you by Cars for Kids. Sean hit 13 homers this year. He hits a line drive into shallow center, a base hit. Rounding third and scoring is Kelly. Cubs lead 4 to nothing. Matt Shaw with a base hit into center. Dansby Swanson claps his hands as he looks over at Shaw at first base. Cubs lead by 4 and the crowd is loving it.

That, of course, courtesy of the Cubs Radio Network, Pat Hughes, Ron Coomer on the call. This is Rahimi Harrison Grotie on 104-3 The Score. And just a week from today, we have a game. We have a game to talk about. Such a nice idea. I don't know how much we're going to talk about that game because you know what those games

look like out of the gate. Here's some person you don't know pitching against some person you don't know batting. And then you've got to figure out who these people will be in the search for the next gauge Tater Workman. why you got to bring up gauge? Because that's what spring training is. It's a search for that type of dude.

So do you put stock in spring training or do you not? Because that's the battle. I do because I believe in having, you're not going to end the season with the same 40 guys you start with. So I'm a big believer in figuring out who's going to be a part of that scene altogether. I'm a big believer in knowing like who's your glad I called that guy guy, for example, who is going to pop, who brings value to your team. There are some emergencies that can happen in spring training.

And you just want to see how people get their legs underneath them and what happens next. Do you remember Kyle Tucker's spring training? Bad. Do you remember what he immediately did once it went from spring training to regular season? Immediately. But he's the exception. If PCA hits well in spring training, doesn't that make you feel better about him bouncing back from the second half he had last year? I feel like that's expected.

But that's the point. So if he hits poorly in spring training, does that give you an indication? So hitters are supposed to hit. Here's why hitters are supposed to hit because they're just hitting. Meanwhile, pitchers out here working on stuff, especially early in spring training. Like they don't care as much. Like James and Tyone might be mixing in an eighth pitch to his arsenal. A 20th pitch to his arsenal.

Like the way they try to experiment with things. So that's why I can't take it too seriously because if the pitchers aren't taking it seriously, can you really take what the hitters are doing against those pitchers seriously? And then you factor in the environment, knowing that in Arizona, ball go far. Ball go far. Are you saying ball does not go far in April in Wrigleyfield? I don't think it does as much. I'm just going to throw that out there.

Swarles a little bit. Yeah, yeah. But I think there are still some ways you can gauge, not like a game-to-game scenario, but there are still some ways you can gauge patterns in spring trading that at least give you some information about people. What I do love about Craig Counsel specifically, And I'm trying to remember if Will Vinnable is like this. He'll tell you the truth to if someone's not doing well in spring training in terms of what they're looking like, not only in the games themselves, but like everyday work. He'll be like, he's got to tighten this up.

He'll give you specific things they have to work. It's not unlike Ben Johnson, honestly. Well, and frankly, that's how he determined who his opening day starter was going to be, was their performance in spring training. And for that team, it made sense that Sean Burke got that on. at the time. It made sense. So will it make sense if Matt Shaw's in the starting lineup on opening day? Well, and where? You know,

Wright Field is the spot for him? Is that what we are to understand? Is it designated hitter? And then it's trying to figure out say a Suzuki. And that's all of this together. Now, if let's go back to earlier in the week, if you recall, Craig Counsel had said that it's not a top three problem for him. Shaw being in right field

or a posse. Like, that's not top three priorities. So it's number four. That's it. I'm like, well, okay, if it's in your top five, that's kind of still a big deal. Even if it's in your top 10, given how you work as a manager, that seems important to me. Knowing what we know, which is very limited because we haven't seen Matt Shaw at all these different positions, would it surprise you have Matt Shaw played a better right field than say a Suzuki? No, because I think it speaks to his physical tools when you talk about how he was able to play such good defense at the hot corner. I think you have to have a cannon in right field, as we've discussed.

Fernado Tatis is probably the biggest example of somebody successfully going from the infield to the outfield recently later in his career. Shaw is way younger. So when you put that all together, I think that that gives you an indication it's a good possibility. But it's also trying to figure out when Jed Hoyer talks about the totality of the season, one of the big factors for the totality of their success was Say Suzuki leading Major League Baseball and RBI is at the break. So what's Sayy Suzuki's best version of himself? In a contract year, by the way. But what's Sayah's best self look like?

And you and I were discussing this. Does Matt Shaw playing in Rightfield come at the expense of Sayas Suzuki getting fielding reps that he thinks helps his offensive game? I don't know what Matt Shaw looks like as a DH or a right fielder. I do know what he looked like as a third baseman. and offensively, it simply was not good enough. Hence, going out to get a guy like Alex Bregman, if you thought Matt Shaw could hold it down and produce like Bregman,

then maybe you don't. But also, from a culture standpoint, Bregman, I think, was needed, and I can't wait to see exactly how that plays out over the course of the season. You know, just days in, we've already gotten so many different stories, so many accounts, whether it's Bruce Levine, whether it's Ken Rosenthal.

People are chiming in on what people are telling them about Alex Bregman, and what his new teammates are telling them. And even we didn't touch on this, but you know, he even talked about Peacrow Armstrong and gave his reasoning as to why we are going to see a more consistent season coming up for him. But knowing that there's another hitter who can discuss that with him, you know, at that level,

knowing that somebody like Alex Breggman is there who can also encourage him in that way. And this is not necessarily, it's not to knock anybody else on the team or even knock a guy like, Kyle Tucker, who was such a good hitter, obviously, and was also a part of the team last year. You're going to learn from everyone, as we've discussed. But it's taking that extra step and initiative on your own to go out and do that and having the resume to back it up, where I think

that really can make a difference with people. So the resume thing is interesting because you're coming in with an understanding of what people do. And with a lot of these younger players, we're wondering, are you able to replicate what you did last season? And then with some people, it's, are you replicate what you did for this portion of the season? And so that becomes a big question. I think one of my bigger questions, and I know it's not top three for Craig Counsel. At least not right now. Yeah, I think one of my bigger questions, though, overall is Matt Shaw's at Bats,

are those coming at DH? Is he getting more plate appearances than Moises by Astero? How much is he cutting into, you can go around the Horner, Nico Horner, Alex Breggman, anywhere else you want to go. I mean, even a guy like Kevin Alcantara, you know? Well, Kevin's kind of a clear-cut backup, right? Do we know? I mean, there's been a lot of, and that's a guy who you're paying attention to at spring training.

Fair. That's one of those guys you say if he comes out, hits 350, and gets on base and does stuff, you'd be like Kevin looks like he's ready to have some regular bats. And given his height and how he can glide in the outfield, you know, because he runs well, like how does that play into all of this? That's more of a front office thing than I think a Craig counsel thing. But, you know, typically if you're in the Dodgers, the exemplary franchise here that we just talked about destroying baseball, while they get projected to win 104 games by Pacota.

You have 104 and a half. I'm not going to short them the half. But if you're the Dodgers and you have too many good players on your team, what happened? You're trading somebody like a Michael Bush and then he ends up on the Cubs and the Cubs get value out of it and so did the Dodgers. And the Dodgers still end up winning the World Series. But the point is, you know, there's an incentive every way you look at it to have all of your players play to their best selves. The problem, though, is at what cost, you know? I think at least we know that there's no question at first base.

I don't know that you have to platoon that. But do you have to platoon your DH? Do you have to platoon your right field? Is Shaw okay with being utility? Do you think that will set him back when it comes to his offensive development we saw last year? Jed Hoyer was on Fox 32 with our friend Tina Wynn, and he discussed how to keep that infield intact. Yeah, no, it's a really good infield.

I mean, I think certainly one of the best infields in baseball and Matt Shaw is a player that we feel total confidence in. And one of the things we always talk about is you can't just write out your lineup, you know, one through nine or write the positions out. You have to have real depth and, you know, where we are right now and then having Matt Shaw who can move around and, you know, we'll have injuries, we'll have guys in your days off and making sure that it's not just those four guys, but also Matt is able to really help out.

I think it's really important. Help out. That doesn't sound like a guy who's going to have an everyday role, right? No, but I'm just worried that like you don't want him when he is up, when it is his game to play, that he has like four strikeouts or something. Three. I don't like to ascribe four to anybody. So you think Matt Shaw is in a bad situation?

For him? I think for his, when you know the regular reps helped him get better offensively, it's really hard for me to say that taking that roll away from him now would help the team get the best version of him. A couple of things here. I think we have to understand going in. These guys ain't going to be held. Somebody's going to the injured list. More than one player is going to the injured list.

Why you got to do that? Because there will be stints realistically where Matt Shaw will get to play regularly every day, even if it's just for two to three weeks, right? That's a real thing that's going to happen. And it's actually great that they have a guy like Matt Shaw to step in because I don't think they had that last year. I'm not saying if Alex Bregman goes down that Matt Shaw can give you comparable at-bats, played appearance clubhouse presence as

Alex Bregman, but it's nice to know if Bregman were to get hurt, you have no drop-off, maybe even a jump-up in the talent at Glove at the hot corner. And so I don't look at this like we're scrambling, trying to find a place

for him to play. If he's in the starting lineup two to three times a week, I think that's fair. It is. I mean, if that's what he can get, then yeah, that's fair. But you're not sure you can even get that. I just don't know how it works where he gets to be a better hitter and grows as a hitter. That's the hard part of this.

Do you feel like Moises Bayosteros needs the same opportunity? Or are you saying his bat is so advanced, so much more advanced, that is, than Matt Shaw, that he doesn't need as many regular reps as what you would want to get Matt Shaw? I don't know that having Moises by Astero's get more reps right now helps the Cubs as a whole. At D.H. You don't think he's a better bat option at D.H. So if you put Sayas Suzuki in right field. Which is what I'm doing, most likely. Okay. And then you put Moises-Biosteros.

Who else would you put at D.H. at that point, if Sayas playing right? It'd probably be Shaw. So don't you think Moises Bios is a better hitter than Matt Shaw? I think they've got more invested in Shaw where they have to figure this out. I know. But if I have a game to win today and I need real, who gives you the best at bats between Moises Biosteros and Matt Shaw. I think it's Biosteros and it's not particularly close. Matt Shaw's Ops was 839

in the second half of last year. Okay, what was Moises Biosteros his OPS? I mean, he had way more limited bats. Let's look up the splits right now. 2025. I mean, that's where I sit with this is the implication was that Matt Shaw

was going to be an everyday third basement for this team. Moises Biosteros in a very small sample size. 48 played a appearances in the second half was still 1,023. And for the season... But it was 48 appearances in the second half. But...

Played appearances. Not game appearances. No, no, no, no. But what you had to do to get good numbers out of Matt Shaw was to say second half. If I just look at Moises Biosteros and his 20 games period, an 868 OPS, a 298 batting average, a 394 on base. Yeah, he's a better hitter than Matt Shaw.

He always has been in as far as professionally. But even you yourself argued in favor of Matt Shaw getting the reps that he got last year because you saw how much he improved offensively. And you talked more about Matt Shaw than you did Moises. Well, because Moises didn't have anywhere to play because of the DH situation at that point. But that means they chose Matt Shaw over Moises-Bi-Asteros at that point. Well, Moises-Bi-a-Steros couldn't play third base. Now we have an actual third baseman not named Matt Shaw. So now that's where the,

that's the pie that you're eating out of is the DH pie. It's either that or it's right field for Matt Shaw. And I don't. don't like the idea of Sayas Suzuki playing more D.H. than right field based on what his offense looks like at either position. That's really the problem. Is Sayas Suzuki was signed to be at the time the best hitter on the team. And he should be your DH in this scenario. He should be. But as we've seen, his success has come with qualifiers. You know, it was protection in the lineup from a guy like Kyle Tucker. It was fielding and hitting combined that made him his best self. So now we've got to figure out what the case is there for Matt Shaw as well.

I will say that tail end performance by Say of Suzuki to end the regular season and even in the postseason, it didn't feel like the Kyle Tucker protection was the catalyst there anymore because remember Kyle Tucker was hurt for part of that. And then when he did come back, Say was just doing his thing at that point. He was on a roll. The problem is like, yeah, in a small sample size, Beis Starros has been good. It's a matter of how much the Cubs want to invest in Bisteros anyway. Well, the problem is he doesn't have a position. That's what puts them behind the eight ball with him.

It's like, yes, he can be RDH, but he can't play catcher, which was his position. He was brought up as. He's too short, I guess, to play first base. And even if he could play first base, Michael Bush exists. No, Michael Bush needs to play first base. I'm not doing this again. I'm not dealing with this for another year. No, no, no.

I get it. So then it becomes, is it a straight, would it look like a straight, platoon when you're talking about DH with Biosteros and of course Matt Shaw Platooting DH to me is the quickest way you get to four pinch hit at bats per game

where nobody's doing enough. Yeah. Understand this. In 2025 66 plate appearances for Moises Byestero. Four of the 66 were against left-handed pitchers.

That smells like you're only going to play against righties. Okay, yeah, yeah. And if he only plays against righties and Matt Shaw only plays against lefties, that is a platoon. Not that Matt Shaw would only play. I'm just saying at the DH position specifically.

Like, if a righte is on the mound, I'm assuming that Byosteros is dehing. Well, I mean, and that's it, is that how do you make it make sense? Because Shaw's okay with being a utility. But I'm just saying, in the window of I want to get this guy regular at bats. That's where I've been coming from with the whole thing.

So if you're trying to get Matt Shaw regular at bats, like I said, I'd be good with two starts a week. Is that regular enough? Or do you need three starts a week? Let's assume there's six games in a week. In an average week, there's six games in a week. And you look at Matt Shaw versus, let's say, right-handed pitchers. And he's only hitting 218 last year against right-handed pitchers. He's hitting 250 against left-handed pitchers.

His OPS against right-handed pitchers, 649. His OPS against left-handed pitchers, 808. That's why it screams, Platoon. It just does. Yeah, I mean... And there's more right-handed starters. What made you change your tune on Shaw now versus how you felt about him? Alex Breggman exists.

Yeah. It's that simple. But in a vacuum, that shouldn't change how you felt about Matt Shaw's bat showing way more promise. Like that, Matt Shaw's bat showing way more promise doesn't change. Like, Alex Bergman didn't change that. So, like, what made you change your mind about his offensive production? I don't think I changed my mind about Matt Shaw. I think I always held Moises by Asteros in higher esteem as far as a guy you put in to have, like, whether there's a pinch hit at bat or to play at DH.

This is going back to last year. But he was the best option in third base because he had the gold glove caliber third base. When Bregman gets signed, okay, Matt, you're obviously underwent. underneath him on the depth chart. I agree with that because the whole plan to begin with was pregnant. And so now it's just working Matt Shaw in at second base, right field, third base, and just work him in when needed. That's what we're looking at.

Nico Horner goes on the injury list. It's probably going to be Matt Shaw at second base. That's not something I want to put out into the ether. But this is how it works. No, I think it's really, I think the real issue is here is that there are two, many qualifiers for the three people we just talked about, Shaw, Sayas, Suzuki, and Biasteros, needing certain things in order to be able to produce. But that's why you have all of them still on this roster is that Craig Counsel gets to do his

job that he gets well compensated for to figure it out. And the concept of trading Shaw, you also want to then, you've got to showcase some of that value too. Yes. Like that's the other thing. It's like a balance of value and mystery where to another team, do they say, if he got regular at Bats with us, how good would he be based on, say, the second half jump for him? Yeah, as long as he doesn't stink, I think any front office can talk themselves into matchaw.

I would love to put Say Susuki at DH and just deal with that. I don't want those DH numbers from a year ago, I'll tell you that. That's it. Like, that's my problem. But based on who they need him to be and who he's supposed to be on this team, I would love to just be able to plug and play and then not worry about it. Would love that. Keep hoping and wishing. Isn't that what spring training is for?

Yes, it is. Tune in tomorrow from 8 to 9 a.m. as Circus Sports presents Palm Saturdays, featuring Circa's Vice President of Operations, Mike Palm. You'll be able to list it on the score in the Odyssey app or watch live on YouTube and Twitch, as Mike breaks down the latest in the sports betting landscape with a Chicago flavor.

It's all presented by the official sports book of the score, Circus Sports, Sports Betting the way it should be, with no bedding. fees. Our segment was brought to you by almost freetheatheathe.com. Save on dental implants today. Coming up next, he is at the All-Star game, and he joins us, Nick Friedel, the former Bullsby

writer. He is now at the athletic. We will talk to him next.