Rahimi, Harris & Grote Show - Transition: Arturas Karnisovas, Bulls are 'throwing crap at the wall' in an effort to save their jobs

Episode Date: February 5, 2026

Leila Rahimi and Marshall Harris welcomed on Matt Spiegel and Laurence Holmes for the daily transition segment.

You need quick and easy, and those all seem to be quick and easy. Kevin Harlan. Which, by the way, were my nicknames in high school. I mean, he's unstoppable. The man just, and I thought we were doing him a favor by letting him go, and Kevin Harlan just keeps on giving to the world. So thanks to Kevin Harlan. Thanks to Julia Poe for telling us who's available today at the game tonight.

And now I still don't necessarily know. Well, Anthony Simons is now legitimately a bull. All right. So you are a bulls. You are a bulls. So we don't get to play tonight is what you're saying. We don't have to jump on a plane and go catch this game. I was going to start Yuki at the point and everything.

You know what we don't get to do? We don't get to watch. Because screw them, man. I am not watching that. When you say that, what is that that you're not watching? Hold on. Can I take everybody else? This has been quite the swerve. Before you roll into it, can I think everybody else?

Do your thing, Leum. want to give you the time to cook here. I got broken, Lawrence. I got broken. Thanks to Olin Crutes, thanks to Ray Diaz, Tyler Buterbaugh, Brandon Fryer, Connor O'Donnell, Jacob Stutz, Max Curtis, and Cody Westerlin. Okay. Wait, wait, wait, hold on. Point of order. Did Olin say anything about Coach Stud's, the new running backs coach?

He did. All right, okay, because we're going to do a whole segment so we can pull that. I didn't hear it, so we can pull it. Yes. We also talked to him about the Rooney Rule because, you know, Olin is a coach and a minority. So just so you guys are aware. Excellent. Since you also talked about it earlier this week.

That's interesting. And now, Matt Spiegel, why are you not watching the game tonight? Why are you broken? I mean, look, Lawrence Holmes has been here for a while. He's been like withstanding me as I hunt for potential positives as I stand there, kind of wondering what they're doing. And now it's just so clear. Like, they're just throwing crap at the wall and trying to extend their time at a job they don't deserve.

screw these guys, man. Like they are just trying to get younger and give themselves another couple of chances at luck and lottery because that's the plan and that's the hope. But are they giving themselves another chance of luck and lottery? Because I don't think that's what's even happening. No, no, no, no, because they're not good at it. Because they waited too long to get rid of now seven different assets

and only get one first round pick back and it's your own. They waited too damn long so they could chase mediocrity and they got it and they had their media. and maybe that's going to help them keep their jobs. And now they're just trying to get younger. This stuff doesn't make sense, man. It's worse than what you just said, though. You know why?

I don't know what I said is pretty bad. No, but let me tell you why it's worse. Because they're not even chasing. You're the one who's been telling me why it's better. Well, listen, no, I told you why to watch. I told you why to watch. This is something different. What we're talking about now is different.

I can't control what the front office and ultimately ownership decides they want to do. And what they want to do right now is fill up the building. That's never been disputed. That is the goal. filling up the building is above winning. But what I will say is this. I thought that, okay, we're looking at a tank of some kind coming into today based on the moves that they had made. Some of them anyway.

Now I understand they have taken what could have been a chance to say we're going in a different direction and said, we're not. We're going to play a shell game and we're going to replace the likes of, I don't know, three of your top four scores and replace them with other. guys who can score the basketball, get a little bit better at rim protection, and see if we can't get up higher in these play-in standings. You think they're actually going to try to get higher in the play-in standings with this mix? Did you see the last move they just made? The last trade they made. They traded for Nick Richards. Nick Richards is a serviceable big who can run the floor, who can also

offer a lot more rim protection than Nikola Vutrovich. Last I checked, Anthony Simons is a better offensive player than Kobe White. Colin Sexton is a more than capable rotation player on any team. And that's even a good team. They didn't move any of those guys that I just mentioned. So you think that it's not a tank. They're not even tanking for this year.

Because it's hard to get down to the bottom because they've waited so damn long. They're not tanking. I'm here to tell you they are not tanking. They are about to go forth and try to get as far up these standings as they can. And at 3.30 we'll find out for real because he'll be at the market.

Mike answering questions, and I guarantee you, the word compete will be in that press conference. Man. Oof. That's worse than you thought, isn't it? That is even worse. Yeah. That is even worse. You're really not watching the game tonight.

I mean, no, I'm not. How do you feel about this Caribbean series game? We've got to enjoy that. I'll enjoy that. Puerto Rico versus Panama. Let's get it. I'm just... I love a good Caribbean series game. The Iyo trade kind of broke me, man. Okay, so let's talk about the Ios

trade specifically. Okay, I was going to talk about it. Go. Let me talk about it first, okay? And then you can tell me, you can redirect, okay? You hit on I.O. DeSumo. You hit, that is an organizational win of the high, one of the highest orders. You hit on a second round pick. You turned into a guy that you want to extend and create something with, potentially, or

spin him off and get something from that. And he's a wonderful story as well, and all of that. It's a hit. It's an organizational hit. And you haven't won a damn thing with him and now you've tossed him up for what? The chance that Rob Dillingham is something briefly? Like, you tossed him off for essentially

nothing and Minnesota fans are laughing in your face and your fans who've like, I was talking to a guy who's a dad of a 13 year old who loves I-O and loves Kobe has actually done what you've asked and invested in them and giving them a chance and fallen for them.

And now you've tossed them off for what, Exactly. It doesn't seem like freaking anything just to extend your own time horizons. You can keep a freaking job you don't deserve. Matt, I'm on the record. I-O. is the guy they should have re-signed. Here's why. Not because of all the things you just said, although those are great reasons. But because once you have them on a new contract, you've got to have players like that that you can trade away when you do want to bring in the superstar.

Because you've got to be ready for the next disgruntled superstar. The problem with the era that we're in with Arturz, Karas Chávez, and what? year six, am I right with that? Yeah. So at any point when a star has become disgruntled, they have not been in position to give them anything for the star. And that's, to me, the ultimate issue. You're not going to get one of the top 20 players in basketball

doing the things the way they've done things. No, no, no. They have no kind of plan to come up with that. And the NBA, it's so clear that's what you need. You need a star and you need an architect in the front office. and they don't have either. And they still don't have either. And they won't have either unless they get lucky somehow, some way.

And I know it's hard to do. Teams in the NBA, like they turn over all the time. People switch plans all the time. They pivot. They make wild moves and swings because you've got to try something. They don't try anything. And this is a continuation of not trying anything. I don't agree that this feels like a push for the play-in.

This still feels like a tear down to me. They may package it. as we still want to be competitive, and our North Star is getting into that play-in. Because I don't agree that Nick is a better player than Vooch. But I think that they're trying to tear all of this stuff down and still keep us on the hamster wheel of, well, we're going to be competitive and we want to be competitive every night. Because, partly because their building is full.

And they would never tell us, with their building being full, don't come to our, our building because we're actually not trying to win. It's one of those problems that teams will often get themselves into because there's, do you want to win and make money or do you want to make money in a situation where you know you can't win, then the best thing organizationally for them is to make money. And they're not in a position to do. And the thing is about, like, I appreciate you wanting them to try and get a superstar via trade. but I don't know that this particular group is going to be able to do it.

They can't because they don't move fast enough to get real assets, and then once they have to move things, they take whatever the hell they can get, player-wise and asset-wise. They're not stocked to do anything. They have 14 second-round picks right now. And unfortunately, since the end of the Jordan era, this just has— bless you, Leila, this just hasn't been a destination for anyone.

So I do think that some of this is the way that we look at it through the prism that with those of us who live in Chicago and look and go, man, this should be a destination. It's clearly not. And if the city itself is not going to be able to sell itself, okay, times change. People want different things out of life. Then you have to build and grow your own stars. And what I've been saying about modest is I think he's good. And I think that he's a player that on a championship team has a role. But the evidence that I would use to tell you that he's not a superstar is the stuff that the two of you were talking about yesterday.

How long did you have to wait on Cooper Flag? You didn't have to wait, did you? No, no, you'd have to squint. You didn't have to turn your head sideways. Even with Conconinibo. You haven't had to squint. You haven't had to turn your head sideways. You haven't had to wishcast, none of it.

But, Lawrence, you know, both of those guys are so far. beyond modest in terms of an overall game and a feel and an ability to do things making. That's what I'm saying. That's been incredibly obvious. Look, when Kendall said... It has not been incredibly obvious. You and I have been talking. You've been telling me that he can

grow into a superstar. And I've been telling you, I don't see it. I never said superstar. I said star. And those are different things. And grow. Like, he's got a long way to go. Cooper Flagg, Cooper Flagg is put him out

there and just let him figure out how to be great as quickly as possible. Right. And that's what I'm saying. It doesn't take a whole day to recognize sunshine. You know what I'm saying? I do. I feel that. Can I say like the other part that kind of broke me is when I realized, all right, so they just tossed Dailen Terry and Julian Phillips away as like salary filler. Daly Terry's now a pelican. And he moved again? Yes. The Knicks traded him to get like right at the beginning of. So these guys that they told us they knew what they were. doing and they drafted like these toolsy dudes who can't shoot but we're

going to make him shoot because we got a great shooting coach oh wait what happened we fired our shooting coach because he had too many good ideas and he was like strong in the room and we can't have that to go against you know the sweetest leader like revered leader we can't have that so like we all wasted

our time getting to know Dail and Terry and Julian Phillips learning them and listening to you about them and then you toss them off as salary filler in your deals There's nothing trustworthy about these guys. Well, with all due respect, what was Dale and Terry ultimately? No, not.

I mean, that's how the rest of the league valued him. And that's my biggest issue is, is a lot of this just putting band-aids on the flaws of your trades or your drafts and then doubling down on your draft choices? Yeah, I mean, they weren't good picks. They weren't good picks at all. You drafted him fourth overall, and I was, I tried to look at the whole rather than focus on that for so long. but the problem is it still ended up hamstringing you. The pick of Dail and Terry still ended up hamstringing you.

You fought to get Noah Essenge. And I hate to say it, but, you know, when we're talking about first round picks being the most valuable thing, and sometimes you might get offered a first round pick that's way down the line, but that doesn't mean you can't trade it and use it for something else later. Like, I just don't, it'd be one thing if you were telling everybody you were in win now mode. Like even the Mavericks, after they traded away Luca, told everybody they needed defense and they were in win now mode. Okay, at least you told people something.

But if this is just the constant search for the nine or ten best players to fit the bill, I understand wanting to get something in return for these deals, which is better than what they had been doing. But just time wasn't on their side. And the drafts haven't been good enough to help. If Marshall is right that they're going to sell this and legit try to keep competing with. Charlotte who they just gave Kobe White to and like they're going to try to make and tell us that this was a plan to acquire all these guards this giant pile of guards and like make a thing that works that'll be really really pathetic because it will still be not picking a lane or just be like pretending that they did and trying to fill a room again like that'd be awful a shell game that's a shell game that's what that's what this is now I waited I waited till two o'clock I wait to see okay what are you going to do, what are you going to turn this into? Either they got stuck with the hot potato in their hands when you talk about some of these guards that are on there, or you just literally, like I said,

got some new guys to do the thing with Billy Donovan coaching them through it. And look, Simons is really, really good offensively. He learned how to play defense under Joe Missoula. I like him. I do. But at the same time, I can't ignore the fact that what you guys just talked about whether it's Dail and Terry is the number 18 overall pick, whether it's Julian Phillips. Was he 12 or 13 Julian Phillips? Julian Phillips was a second rounder.

He was a second rounder. Which one was 16? Maybe that was Dave. Terry was 18. Terry was 18. And so when you look at how they get, you know, sent away, and you look at the overall draft profile

of Arturz Karasovas and where those guys are now, outside of the I. Outside of the I. outside of the I-O, which is he fell to them. I remember being with I-O-down over by... That's a lottery ticket. UIC. They got a lottery ticket with him.

And they did develop him. Don't get me wrong. He got better. But I just, it's going to be hard to understand how this pivot works now because they feel like they're still, I thought they got off the treadmill. They're still on the treadmill. They're still on the treadmill.

I'm not sure that they, their strategy for, building a good team actually jibes with what is happening around the league. I think they're probably a couple of rotations behind in that regard. In terms of being where the league is right now. Yeah, Lawrence, I totally agree. And don't you agree that the NBA is about the architect and the star? Like, you're talking about drawing people.

Yeah. And this architect, these architects don't have a clue out of function in the way that the league is run right now. And I know that it's kind of unfair to... connect these guys with Sam Presti, but if Sam Presti calls you, don't answer the phone. Oh, this is some Howard Roseman, like, same, same, same, same deal. Like, don't answer the phone. Danny Ainge. Because he's figured out, his player development and his track record in that, what he values,

if he thinks that he can get something from you, he understands the game, and you're going to end up in a bad, you're going to end up on the bad side of a trade. To your point, Joel Embed is so pissed, right now because they gave away that kid for just draft picks and Embed like spoke exactly to wanting to make sure

that there's a good enough core around him for now and for the next couple years he's furious right now. It just makes me sad like the Bulls games are NBA games I should say NBA games that are held in Chicago are fun to go to. They're a lot

of fun to go to but unfortunately even if you get a night where the Bulls win, it still feels empty once you get to the parking lot. Because by the time you get to the parking lot, you're like, you know, that was fun. Like that was a lot of fun. And now they're going to lose four in a row.

Or they're going to lose again to the Pacers, who are the worst team in the league. Because there is no overall strategy. Or the overall strategy that the Bulls are using is not going to allow them to be, actually be competitive. And where I'm at with them, along with the White Sox,

by the way, and it's not because they're owned by the same family. It's we continue to allow them to make it look like there's progress where no progress has actually been made. This is sports. You are supposed to win.

That's the whole point. And if you're not building towards winning, you're building towards losing. You're building towards sustaining and just making dollars and surviving and thriving frankly because people go to

Bulls games and Lawrence I think you can connect them and you can use ownership to connect them and we can talk it's different sports but you don't have to no but it's right there for you because the White Sox got a sweetheart of a stadium deal they make money

they make money even if they don't have the attendance that they wish they had and it's not comparable that way they in terms of what stadium deals are around MLB and what they got and everything like that, they are making money as they are not winning. And the Bulls are making money as they are not winning.

So that's pretty damn comparable. I'll say this. I can't wait to hear what, well, actually, I am interested to hear what Arturis says to defend the actions that have led us to this moment and to figure out where he thinks they are going. I will also say this, there is no one listening to the station or following the Bulls that believes that that man has done a good job.

The only person who believes it is Michael Rimesdorf. He's the only one. There's no one else who believes it. There's no evidence that he has done a good job. There's nothing you can point to and say that is a sign that you're doing a net positive job. You think Michael really believes it or is he just stubborn and doesn't want to admit he was wrong? I don't know the answer to that. It could be either, but I'm just telling you.

Well, the second one's worse. the vitriol for the Bulls is as high as it's been in a while now after all these moves have taken place and you realize oh wait this isn't even a soft tank this is just business as usual and it's right back to where we were six years ago

that's that's why like it's it just sucks. FIRE! Acmey! When's the All-Star game coming again? We need a loud crowd behind a TV set instead of Zach Levine who would like to play that role? Anthony Simons? He's not going to be here long enough probably.

and Ivy, would you like to be the Zach Levine? Well, I don't know if he's going to be healthy enough. Do they have a guy? Modest. Yeah, okay. There you go, Josh Giddy. Josh Giddy with your accent. Oh, and the modest thing because you guys were going at it. I think Giddy would be perfect.

I think Modis can be a star, like an all star. I'm not saying modest is a generational player. I'm just saying I think he can be an all star. People tanked for years hoping to get Cooper Flag. You know what I mean? People are like, we're dreaming of that possibility. Yes, that's a very different conversation. That's a generational talent type conversation.

Wish Gidey didn't hit the half-cord shot. Then you're nowhere. Then you're nowhere. You nailed it. You're nowhere. That's exactly where they. That's why I saw Guardians of the Galaxy. I know how that goes.

That's why I got broken, Lawrence. They're nowhere. It's a good place. It is. Here's what we've got coming up on the show today. We will continue the Bulls conversation for sure. In fact, I don't know if you guys heard our conversation with Nick Friedel. We are going to share some of that stuff.

Matt Hasselbeck is going to be on the show today. That is happening at 4 o'clock. We want the ball and we're going to win. There'll be some Bears conversation. Our buddy Paul Papps will join us. There's a lot to do. Let's talk Bulls next here on the score. And this segment is brought to you by Take 5 Oil Change.